The Ramsey Show - App - My Husband Keeps Dragging His Feet on Paying Off Debt (Hour 1)

Episode Date: October 4, 2022

Ken Coleman & Rachel Cruze discuss: Paying off a 401(k) loan, Getting on the same page around money in a marriage, Cash-flowing medical bills, Knowing when it's time to upgrade the car, Paying for braces, How to start financial discussions with a fiancée. Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6 Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Девочка-пай Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Pods Moving and Storage studio, this is The Ramsey Show. When debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. Well, we're here to help you win with your money, but also win in other areas of your life. And oddly enough, when you win with your money, it helps the rest of life seem to go a little

bit smoother. We're going to talk about money. We're going to talk about relationships. We'll talk about your work, getting that bigger shovel to be able to get out of debt or build the wealth that you desire to build. And we're going to have fun doing it. I'm Ken Coleman, joined by my colleague, Ramsey Personality, multi-bestselling author, Rachel Cruz. And she's also just really fun. And so we're going to have a good time today. Take the pressure off. Somebody may need some breakthrough today. And your free phone call away, 888-825-5225, 888-825-5225. So before we get to the phones, you and George Camel, our colleague, launched a new podcast,

speaking of fun. We did. But not just fun for the sake of fun. Sort of. Well, I mean, but you're helping people. Yes, yes. So talk about it. I don't want to, it's the Smart Money Happy Hour.

Did I get that right? Yeah, Smart Money Happy Hour. I got nervous. I got on the end of the diving board. No, don't worry. I didn't have any notes. This is all me talking right now. No, I love it.

You're loving it? Thank you. It's a lot of fun? Yes, the podcast is great. Yeah, so we kind of dreamed this up about a year ago. Right. Because we're like, we want a place where kind of selfishly we're like we just want to record these conversations that i feel like we have all the time yeah uh even back with in the

personalities eric and with you and deloney it's like sure we have these great conversations and i'm like man we get to like these really great conclusions but they're it's it's real life conversations so i was like i want to we want to bring that and then a pop culture element and a current events element things that are happening right now today okay so i have to ask yeah because this thing's fresh it's blowing up go get it wherever you listen to podcasts go check it out because you cover current events yes will there be a little coverage of the midterm elections coming up not hard news but are you going to cover it like hey you know we've kind of said which hurts my heart you're not going to touch it we may not touch politics that's okay you and i should start a podcast well no that's a whole

separate one so we're no i know i know that's what i'm saying that's a different way completely i'd have a little i'd have conspiracy theory podcast i would have a midterm election podcast i would have a reality show podcast i could do a lot that's all i'll say i could cover a lot of bases that only probably a fraction of the population actually cares rachel is a great conversationalist i'm just going to tell you that it doesn't matter what the topic is she's going to make it fun so let's do it. Lauren is up first as we get going in this hour in Dallas, Texas. Lauren, how can we help? Hi, Ken. Hi, Rachel. Love your show. Excited to talk to you. So my question is, before I started following Dave Ramsey, I took out a 401k loan.

Now I'm in a situation where I have an amazing new job, which is really exciting, but that 401k loan is due. So do I pay off the loan or do I take the penalties, which is lower and use the rest of that money to use towards my debt snowball? Okay. So how much do you owe on your 401k? There's $9,000 left. Oh, okay. And how much cash do you have? Probably about $3,000. $3,000, okay. But that's just to kind of get us through monthly bills and stuff. Yeah, sure, sure.

So you guys have no other savings at that point? No, we're in baby step two. Okay. But we have a big shovel. So how much do you guys make? Annually, we net about $215,000. Okay, yeah. Fantastic. For sure.

So honestly, you guys could have the money here in like two months if you just really cut things back and threw it at this loan. Yeah, I'm thinking probably three, only because the spouse isn't quite as on board as I am. Okay. Why is that? Oh, I don't know. It's hard to explain.

He's of the opinion that we make enough money to be able to enjoy ourselves. Well, he's right, but that has nothing to do with paying off debt. Is he on board with the debt payment, paying off all the debt? Getting there. Yeah, getting there. How much debt do you guys have total, Lauren?

$90,000. Okay. And what does that make up besides the 401k loan? $40,000 in a car, $24,000 in student loans, $14,000 in a line of credit, $9,401K, and then the rest is just some little miscellaneous stuff. Yeah. Okay. Well, if I were you, I would scrape the money together, yeah, as fast as possible. But I am going to encourage you, Lauren, that you can do this, and it works, and you will be out of that loan and everything. But the anchor that's going to encourage you, Lauren, that, you know, you can do this and it works and you will be, you know, out of that loan and everything. But the anchor that's going to be dragging, it is your husband.

Like, it's your spouse. And I know you didn't call for that specifically, but a lot of even the numbers you just gave me, I'm like, man, if you guys were on the same team and on board together, how much faster you'd be able to attack all of this debt. So for him, he just feels like y'all should just have fun and you make good money. So it's like, let's just enjoy it. What's your motivation to get out of debt and pay it off? Just kind of leaving a legacy and building generational wealth that can really bless and help a lot of people and set us up for a retirement where I think security is the main thing for me. I just don't have to worry about anything.

Yeah, for sure. Which is a women's number one financial fear, Ken, is the lack of security. So yeah, Lauren, I mean, I know you didn't call back for the marriage question, but I would communicate that because under a lot of this motivation to become debt-free, yes, there is the aspirational, you know, for my kids to leave a legacy and all of that is very true and very good.

But usually that first motivation, it's coming from either a place of fear, like what you're saying, a place of fear like what you're saying a place of um you know that insecurity that if something happens are we going to be okay you want the security aspect of the money um which is having three thousand dollars you guys make incredible money you know i'm saying so like um this that this could be a different way but communicating that deeper uh motivation for you to your husband, I think would be a,

I would encourage you to have that conversation because I think that's going to play out in other areas of your marriage, not just the money routes. But to answer your question, yeah, I paid off and get it done in two months. But I think, I know you said three,

I'm going to push you to two, but I would encourage the work on the marriage piece of this, because I think that there's really great depth that can occur in marriage when you both decide, hey, we're going to engage this topic. And it's probably uncomfortable for you, Lauren, to be like, I don't want to bring it up because I know he doesn't want to do it. You don't want to feel like you're a pain. He doesn't want to hear it maybe. So there's that tension, but that's the exact tension that I'm like, you want to dive into, you know? Yeah, but I would also add vision to it.

I think you have to address, hey, this is how I'm feeling and he has to live with the tension. But you also want to try to cast vision because he's just looking at his way. We make too much money. I want to have some fun and do all this. And that's the surface issue. He needs to understand your safety gland is is going off five alarm fire also a vision for the future that you talked about with rachel hey for a little bit of sacrifice buckling down for just a little bit of time in the grand scheme of our life

we can reach this vision here you know sometimes spouses need to see a vision not just all the sacrifice so i would try it that way as well. Great advice, Rachel. Lauren, thanks for the call. Don't move. More Ramsey Show coming right up. welcome back america you are joining the conversation here on the ramsey show we're talking about your life specifically your money your work your relationships i'm ken colman rachel cruz joins me this hour we're here for you the phone number to jump in is triple eight life, specifically your money, your work, your relationships. I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruz joins me this hour. We're here for you. The phone number to jump in is 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225.

Let's go to Jefferson City, Missouri, where Linda awaits. Linda, how can we help? Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. I'm calling because my family and I are in babysit too. We're brand new to trying the Ramsey program. My husband has been the budgeter, wanting to budget for the last 22 years. And I am embarrassed to say that I was kind of kicking and screaming along the way. And just this July, I found your podcast.

I read the money makeover and I'm completely on board and I want to get our financial heads together. We, of course, when we get in line, we are hit with a significant tragedy, and our daughter was very ill, and we needed to put her into a residential facility to help. Yeah, it's very sad. So she was released to the partial hospitalization program yesterday, and she'll be there for about a month. And so my question is, when we had to make this decision to get the support she needed, we depleted our healthcare savings account to cover the in-network deductible to pay for her. So when she comes out in four weeks, we have to seek a nutritionist and a therapist to support her so we can protect the progress she's making. The best people in our area are out of network, which I prayed to get connected with them and we did, but they're out of network. So it's going to cost our family $1,600 a month just for her to see the support people. We will be replenishing our healthcare savings account, but we won't be replenishing it as quick as the bills will be due

for the support. And so my question is, how do I use the every dollar budget? How do I use the Ramsey plan to account for the money going out to pay for the support, knowing that we will be repaying ourselves sometime down the road. And the insurance will also repay us, I think 60% out of network. My brain fried with all of how do I account for this in the budget? And like I said, my husband, I basically wore him down over the years. And now that I'm interested in budgeting, he is having a hard time getting on board with wanting to do it. Yeah. Well, I was going to say the,

the 20 year answer to prayer for you to come on board, Linda, now you're hearing your husband. Yeah. Has that. Well, let me say this, you know, when it comes to our kids like we do anything right like there's money at that point is not even a factor like we are we're going to help our kids in any situation and so um you guys are fantastic parents uh for doing that so the sixteen hundred dollars a month how much do you guys bring home a month in income? My husband has an awesome job and we're right at around $10,000 a month. Okay. Okay. That's great. I have a quick question. Just a technical question, Linda. You're saying that insurance won't pick up the 60% right away. It'll be a while.

Is that what I understood? That is correct. We get a super bill. My understanding is we'll get a super bill at the end of the month that will count for the visits we had that month. And then we submit that to insurance. And there's a little bit of a lag time. But we should get 60% of that refunded to go towards our out-of-network deductibles. Okay. Okay. And how long do you think these two specific treatments for the nutritionist and the other one, I'm sorry, is it a physical therapist? I'm a therapist.

Therapist. Therapist. How long do you, has anyone given you a timeline on those expenses? Like, will this be for the next five years? Will this be for the next five months? Do you know how, how, um, ongoing this will be? Um, I'm guessing that, well, they told us roughly a year, but likely we'll have some sort of support for the foreseeable future just to keep her in a healthy place. And you're right. We would sell our house. We would do anything for her to get better. Yeah, um and i'm thankful she is it sounds like she's progressing well which which is um a praise for sure so if i were you linda um i would look at the next year and just say hey we have a 1600 expense every month and i would just put it in the every dollar budget and

that means you're going to have to limit probably you're going to lower some other categories in order to get that margin of that 1600 and i would put that as a necessity you know we talk about the four walls food shelter utilities transportation and this is right under that for me I'm like it's you know you it's right in that necessity uh bucket before other things before shopping for clothes before entertainment right before out to eat this is a necessity for your family for the next 12 months um from what you've expected so so i would put that and then any money that you get from insurance ongoing i would just say hey is an extra bump to even throw at the debt snowball you said you guys are working your way out of debt so you could even use that extra 60 percent that

you're going to be getting uh you know $9,000 or whatever it may be, to throw at, I'm sorry, $900 to throw at the debt snowball even. So I would just put this as a line item. Does that stretch your budget too much, do you feel like? No, that helps me because I just wasn't sure where to, because there's so many ends, like this is coming in and this is going out, and then this is being refunded that my mind was spinning, and I want to go to my husband with a very clear, this is my suggestion.

I would just say it's an expense, and that this is going to be, and then any extra from the insurance that comes in will be a bonus to throw at your debt snowball. I think that's right. We have some experience, Stacey and I, we've had a lot of healthcare stuff with our kids and payments and then all this kind of stuff. You go, what's insurance covering?

Stacey's really great at this. If she were sitting here right now, so I'm going to kind of tell you what she would say. Get on the phone with the insurance. If you have already done it, get back on the phone with them. Get on the phone with the office manager, whoever's in charge of the billing at the executive. I mean, excuse me, at the, at the two different therapy options and just say, Hey, here's where we are. Insurance is going to

cover 60% from the time you file the bill or you send us the bill to here. Can we work something out? Most of the time in those situations, they know they're going to get paid. They know your situation. So don't be afraid to at least have a conversation to go, could we work it out this way for the first month or two until we figure out what the cycle looks like? But to Rachel's point, the safe place is just go, all right, we're going to write $1,600 line item in the budget. And then after two or three months of figuring out what the insurance billing looks like, because you're still looking at about 900 bucks and some change with insurance paying paying 60 they're going to pay 900 of it if that's what it ends up being so i think that's the safe play and then that way you're not worried about the budget overheating yep for sure and linda i

know you're you're so motivated i can hear that in your voice of like you're like i want a budget i want to get stuff in in control we're on baby step two, all of that. And so this getting out of debt part of your journey is something that obviously we love. We celebrate being debt-free here on the show. But we also say when big life stuff happens, there is a time to pause the debt snowball. That's if you're expecting a child, if you know there's going to be a big move coming up.

There are times for a short period of time to pause. So I know that you are so motivated, but just of how close to home and how quickly and things are changing with her health. If you wanted to pause for 30, 60 days from the debt snowball, pile up some money and kind of get this new norm under you and then throw it at the debt. But I do want to give you a little bit of breathing room as a mom, because there's a lot. If you try to do too much, I feel like it can be overwhelming and it can almost be that defeating. So I love how excited you are. And I would still have those numbers of death snowball in front of you. I would still have that factor of motivation. But if you need like a 30-day breathing room, give yourself some grace in that too, okay? Yeah, absolutely.

No, that sounds important. It's hard not as a mom, just not to keep your head down and keep barreling forward. Yeah, you know, for sure. And I know if Dr. John Deloney was sitting here too, I think that, you know, walking through that, um, that part of the work for you as a mom too, is really important. Taking care of yourself and the term self-care, I feel like it's thrown out so often, but truly, you know, uh, the pain associated possibly with what happened with your daughter. I mean, all of that, right? There's so much for us as people, so many layers.

And taking care of all of that is so important. But I'm proud of you guys. Absolutely. And I think Rachel's right. Your head needs to be down for your daughter right now. Let's get that stabilized and that burden hopefully off of your shoulders. And you'll be able to pay the debt off. I'm not worried about that at all. Thank you so much for sharing your story with us.

We just believe better things are ahead. Hoping the best for your family. It's a tough, tough storm, but you will walk through it. All right, folks, don't move. More of your questions coming up. This is The Ramsey Show. show one of the most common pieces of advice i give folks trying to get out of debt is to sell the car. But it's important to sell the smart way by using CarWiser. CarWiser is a completely free service that gets you offers from all the top online dealerships instantly. Just enter your vehicle information and boom, you're ready to pick up an offer and get paid. CarWiser saves you hours of time and hassle. So go to CarWiser.com slash Ramsey.

That's carwiser.com slash Ramsey. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman, joined by Rachel Cruz. We're thrilled that you are with us this hour. It is a free phone call if you want to jump in, 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Let's go to Craig in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.

Craig, how can we help? Hey there, guys. Thanks for taking my call. I appreciate it. You bet. That's what we guys do on a daily basis. You guys are helping a lot of people. Thank you.

So my question is, Carl, my wife and I were through the plan a few years ago. We're now in baby steps four, five, and six. And part of that is one of our daughters is a freshman in college, so we're helping cash flow that. But our question is we're trying to dump extra money into the house. We have three vehicles that are a little bit older because we didn't want to upgrade while we're paying off debt.

So my wife is thinking maybe we should start putting some money into a fund aside to save for cars, whereas I want to just keep tackling the house. And I guess the question is, how do you figure out at this point, which is, I know this is not a right answer, but what direction to go? Well, I'm going to jump in first because this is non-financial advice. So I'll let my co-host, the financial expert, weigh in.

But I'm going to weigh in as a dude who's been married 24 and a half years. You got the money. You have the income and the discipline. When mama says that she wants to open up a fund to replace her car, you need to go, okay, sweetheart, we're going to start that. I'll have a new budget to you in the morning. If you want to, Craig, keep driving an older car and just pile money in the house, that's your call. I think I'd start funding a new car for your wife. See, I told you it wasn't financial advice.

Now you've got to make that work, Rachel. Fantastic financial advice, actually. It's relational first pal that's what i'm looking out for you right now well i was gonna say craig i mean you don't have to replace all three cars at the exact same time so find the one that's that's either just needed that if you have one that'd be her car i was gonna give an a or b option the one there is no option that is needed or her car be? And just,

do you have you guys run any numbers? And she's the one that asks, obviously I know we're kind of joking with her, but does she know what she wants? Like, do you guys have, have you run any numbers of like the type of car she wants or anything? It's more just an idea.

I mean, we just, no, I mean, as far as specific cars, no, we've talked about pricing. Like we,

we were kind of thinking if we, you know, we could probably get something decent for around $15,000. So that's kind of what we're planning to do. But we do have a car that's a little bit older, more of a beater car that my daughter had at school. And the last inspection, there was concerns over the frame, maybe not passing that inspection. So then I'm thinking. Hey, can you move your phone a little bit?

You're kind of coming in and out. Yeah, sorry. All right, keep going. Are you hearing me better? Yeah, so the third car is the daughter's beater that she's using at college? At college. In our last inspection, they had mentioned that the frame was starting to rust, and they didn't think it would pass the next inspection.

So the real reason is that we're kind of looking at her car, my wife's car runs, but it's not perfect. She can't reverse uphills because of a slight transmission problem. Craig, buddy, this is your intervention. Your wife's in a car that won't go in reverse. Man. Only uphill, Craig is saying. Only uphill.

Only uphill? Craig, I think you need a buyer a car. Oh, my gosh. You guys are killing me. No. Well, first thing you've got to do is. If I was your wife on top of a hill and I could run first. At what point does it not work on a normal level?

That's a good question. It's been three years, so I don't know. Well, Craig, you've got to learn how to talk on a cell phone on top of that. I can't hear him. I can't understand what he's saying. level that's a good question it's been three years so i don't know i mean well craig you gotta learn how to talk on a cell phone on top of that i can't hear him i can't understand what he's saying okay okay so here's what craig needs to do i already told him what he needs to do i couldn't have been clearer so no for real though on a on a tactical level craig i would say okay yeah 15 000 for your wife's car daughter with the bad frame beater, she can hold off for six, eight months. She can bike around college.

These kids, man. These kids, what do they expect? Get a bicycle. She can get her Schwinn. Oh my gosh. Craig, I'm here for you. Okay, so yeah, I would say, okay, $15,000, if that's what it is.

Figure out how much you can sell hers for. Kelly Blue Book it. Figure out the difference. And then you create a sinking fund. And then every month, still putting a little bit of extra towards the house, but slow the house down. Then say, okay, how many months do we have to save up to get that? Whatever the difference is.

Let's say it's eight grand. I don't know what it would be. Well, it can't reverse. So you're probably not get a lot of money for her car. I don't know. But just to say, okay, figure out the math the math have a game plan have a sinking fund which means in the budget for from this month on craig october through however long it's going to take you guys to say put some money aside for her car and then we can you can check out the daughter's car after that um but

that's what i would do but you're still putting extra towards the house you're going to just slow it down he wants to go full-fledged house. And I love that. But I would pull back on the house some, still add some extra money towards the mortgage. So you're still putting extra towards the house. But pull back a little bit to save up and get your wife a car. If he doesn't get her a car,

he's going to be sleeping outside of this house. He wants to pay off so badly. I'm just telling you. I'm just here for you, Craig. You're a good guy. You're crushing it. I love the gazelle intensity. Your wife's going to love us so badly. I'm just telling you. I'm just here for you, Craig. You're a good guy. You're crushing it. I love the gazelle intensity. Your wife's going to love us.

Oh, I know. She's going to hear this call and think, I... Somebody should send her the link to that. I'm going to be her favorite host ever. I'm like, come on, man. All right, good stuff. Hey, Craig, you're awesome.

You guys are going to get there. You really are. And you've been disciplined at this point. Good on you. But now it's time. I mean, when the car won't go in gear, it's probably a sign that it's time to begin to replace it. Let's go to Ben in Medford, Oregon. Ben, how can we help? Hey, guys.

How are you doing today? Good. Good. Hey, so my wife and I recently had a baby about seven weeks ago. That's awesome. You sound sharp. He does. You've gotten some good sleep.

I was in a fog about your stage right now. My wife is pretty good about letting me get sleep, and I'm like, you need to let me wake up and do some stuff to help you out. I wasn't that wife. I was like, wake up with me. Yeah, exactly. All right. How can we help you out. I wasn't that wife. I was like, wake up with me. Yeah, exactly. All right. How can we help you with Ben? Yeah. So we've got about, we've got about $1,200 in medical debt from Matt. And then my nine-year-old son needs braces and that's going to be about another 1600 bucks. We have a fully funded emergency fund. And so I'm kind of wondering, do we take it out of the

emergency fund and then pause our investments? And then until we build our emergency fund. And so I'm kind of wondering, do we take it out of the emergency funds and then pause our investments? And then until we build our emergency fund back up, or do we just pause our investments, try to cash flow it? The baby debt is kind of like it's due at the end of the month. The dental debt is kind of like they need $120 now to do a down payment. And then they said we can pay it off over the next year. No interest, but I'm kind of like, I $120 now to do the down payment. And then they said we can pay it off over the next year. No interest, but I'm kind of like, I don't want to have anything that even sounds remotely like that, even if there's no interest or whatever. So I'm just kind of curious what you guys recommend for trying to pay that off quickly, either the emergency fund or try to cashflow it

or. Yeah. Um, how much is in the emergency fund? 12 grand. 12 grand. Okay. And how much do you guys make a year? We make about 140 before taxes. 140 before taxes. Okay.

And so monthly take-home pay? Like nine-ish. Okay. I mean, if I were you, Ben, I mean, it's 2,800 bucks. We had a call like this last weekend. I would push just to cashflow it so that you keep on investing. You don't have to pause that, go through the hassle of that. You're not dipping into the emergency fund.

And I would just say, hey, for the next month, like we're really just going to pull back and get, I mean, if you have to dip into it a little bit, then, you know, that's what it's there for. But these aren't, you know, when it comes to an emergency fund, really one of the big filters is, is it unexpected? So the baby wasn't unexpected, right? Nine months. And then braces, I don't know how, you know, if it, he went to the dentist, like he needs them now or whatever it is. But that's kind of a filter that i use uh to really dip into the emergency fund and feel good about it but if you guys can cash flow it ben i would just so you don't have to like go back a step right if you have the cash and you're and

you guys can just push through it this month that's what i would encourage you to do or next month like if you just need a little bit for the braces now but you can pay it pay the rest off in a month i'd pay the hospital for the baby and if you don't have enough to pay the braces now, but you can pay the rest off in a month. I'd pay the hospital for the baby. If you don't have enough to pay the braces in full, I'd do a down payment on the braces and pay it all off early. You're not accruing interest on that. It's not like a traditional debt.

You're going to crush that. That way you don't dip into your emergency fund and you keep on moving. Boy, I tell you what. Kids and braces. You're not there yet, Rachel. We're not there yet. I never had braces ken oh

lovely teeth thank you wow thank you dave and sharon for that they owe me some money i saved them money that's what happened oh i'd like to be part of that conversation i'd like you to pull that number together amortize it with a little bit of interest and let's present that to dave hey don't move more ramsay Show coming up. Welcome back, America. You are joining the conversation about your life, your money, your relationships, your work. Here on The Ramsey Show, I'm Ken Coleman, joined by Rachel Cruz. We are here for you this hour. It's a free phone call, 888-825-5225.

Paying off debt is always smart. Saving and investing is smart, but there's one key to winning with money that most people overlook, and that's protecting your finances from emergencies. This is why insurance is so vitally important. There are 10 kinds of insurance coverage you might need based on what life looks like for you today. We've built a tool called the Coverage Checkup. It's a fabulous little tool. I've used it and it's going to show you what types of insurance you may need to add or drop or adjust. We're even going to rank your coverage list by importance, email it to you, and then connect you with Ramsey Trusted Insurance Providers so that you can take care

of what you need to do. This could be the most important five minutes you spend today. We recently had one of our viewers and listeners do this, and Donald H. wrote in, for anyone who has not completed this checkup, do it now. You never know when something will happen, and you never want to leave your family in a bad situation. I think Donald H. is sleeping better at night, and you could too. Go to ramsysolutions.com slash checkup. That's ramseysolutions.com slash checkup. Minneapolis, Minnesota is where David awaits. David, how can we help? Hey, Ken and Rachel. Thanks for taking my call. So calling for kind of how to have a financial conversation with your significant other. So my girlfriend and I have been seeing each other

since the beginning of the year. I've been dating most of that time. And I understand that finances are one of those big ticket items that we definitely need to be on the same page before I put a ring on it. We had one a few months ago and we shared a few things, specifically our overall debt number. And I could tell that she was very uneasy and uncomfortable and probably felt some shame. And so we were dealing with a lot of other things. So I'm like, hey, let's put this conversation on the shelf, and we'll address it later. And we've been fine since then with regarding that. And I just would like to hear your thoughts on how to have that conversation,

how to enter in that conversation, how to have boundaries. Do we need a third party to help mediate that conversation? How serious is this gal for you? Pretty darn. Are you guys even talking about marriage? So not yet. But that's because we have agreed not to do any progression forward because she is in her first year of residency and that's a very taxing year and I'm

on the idea of engagement should be three to six months and we're not even near that like that time frame, that time scheduling frame. I don't know what Rachel's going to say, but that's what makes this show fun. I think that I would be talking to her about general thoughts about money. Like, what do you think about debt? Last time you kind of talked about, here's how much debt I have, and then she told you how much she had, and you felt like she was shameful about it and all that kind of stuff. But that's not talking about philosophies. And this is really about philosophical thoughts about money,

which is simply what do you believe about money? What do you value? What do you care about? I don't want to have debt. I would like to pay off all my debt. Once I pay it off in my marriage, I don't want us to do that. I mean, you don't have to talk about marriage per se, but just talking about your views and thoughts about money. And I'd start there. Hey, I'm just curious. What do you think about this? This is what I think about money. This is what I believe about money. Does that hit you the wrong way? What do you think? I'd make it all about you so you don't put her on the defensive. And then you're going to lay out your values on money. And I would see how she reacts to that. Is she just asking legitimate, inquisitive type, you know, I mean, I'm just getting to the bottom

of what you believe? Or does she have some sort of problem with it? But Rachel, I'd kind of stay there. It seems that where they're at in their relationship, I wouldn't go much deeper than just putting your values out and seeing how she reacts to it. Yeah, because regardless of her number, of how much debt she has,

if she's in residency and she took out medical bills, or medical debt, or I'm sorry, gosh, medical student loans to go to medical school, there's probably going to be a lot. But regardless of the number, that's not a reason not to marry someone, but different value systems, that's your red flag. And that's what Ken is saying. And I think that that's what's wise is to have these overall. But you guys, how old are you guys? So I'm 34 and she's 29. Okay. So y'all are, I mean, at the age, you're not like 18 and 19 where it's like the word marriage could scare us. I mean, you guys are at the point as adults that you know if you're dating for a significant period of time,

for the, well, I guess in my head, it's eventually going to go somewhere. Well, now, what do you think about this is what i wanted to know because the female opinion versus the male opinion do you do you sense anything where she said oh let's just not advance the relationship until i get through year one i had a little red flag but that's coming from a dude's perspective that's why i'm putting that out there do you see a red flag i know that it is a taxing it is thing but I think that there's a lot of things in life that are very taxing and I would want to do it with Winston as my husband okay uh so I would like him to have this conversation I know I want your opinion on this

I'd like him to have this conversation about money sooner rather than later yeah and I would say it's one of those conversations along with other conversations of values so yeah having the values conversation on money hey you know when I what I see in my life in the next three years is being married. And when it comes to money, I want to be able to have, you know, no debt, pay it off. If my future spouse who's, you're my long term girlfriend, so it's probably gonna be you. Like, yeah, paying off debt, living living debt free being intentional to our money having goals uh all of that is a value of yours david and then you know kids there's another big conversation around kids uh in-laws sex i mean like oh like these are big life conversations

that you have to have before marriage and money yes is one of them and at the top of the list like you said david because it does cause a lot of tension. So making sure that you guys have the same values. But also, David, can I say this? I don't know you. Oh, I'm very excited. But I kind of think you just need to kind of just relax a little bit. Oh, I do too. Ten months.

Ten months I've been dating. And you said it's a three to six month window of engagement. I was like, why? What in a crazy world, David, would you just say, let's go to the courthouse? We've been dating a month. We've been dating a year. Let's just go, right? I do think you've got things in a box, and I can tell you that life rarely fits neatly to the box.

I could not agree with you more. Did we hurt your feelings, David? What do you think? So the window of engagement is that's how long I think engagement should be. Um, three months. If, if, if you, if, uh,

three months, I think is on the shorter end of engagement. Six months is longer. Asterix circumstances, seven months. So I know I talked to her about that while we're at it. I'd add that one to the list. Yeah.

Yeah. Um, and so, and I'm fine waiting, but, um, like I'm fine waiting. What's another six months or so? And I know that she doesn't have a whole lot of bandwidth because of residency is very, very taxing.

Yeah. And she might not want to plan a wedding and all of that. So I get that. Yes. And I want I want to like take as many things off her plate and not necessarily put more things on her plate, like these more in-depth conversations. No, no, no, that's a cop-out. I'm going to tell you that right now. That is not putting more on her plate. You need to figure out, you're very serious about this, and I get it. I love a man with a plan.

I love a man with an opinion. But you need to find out if you guys are on the same page. And sooner rather than later she's not too busy she can't have the conversation that rachel suggested yeah and because these conversations to david they bring a level of depth to your relationship you get to you know her on a deeper level and so that's not adding more to her plate that's actually like loving her really well and wanting to know more of who she is and that's like to me that's a that's a relationship that's not um yeah that's not adding more that's a that's a relationship that's not um

yeah that's not adding more to her plate that's that's that's being a significant other in my opinion i got a bad feeling oh no kid i really do this is not a relationship show uh but i'd love to have one uh because if it was i would say my friend uh we need to have this conversation and everything else pretty darn soon feels like you may be getting the Heisman Trophy stance coming at you a little bit. She's blaming the school. It's a lot. Okay, or David's gone on really tough, and he's like, tell me how much debt you have. And she's like, whoa.

I didn't get you. You're making my point. Thank you. He could be a little too intense. Maybe she needs to breathe a little bit. That's right. With your three to six month engagement rule. It's maybe too much for her.

I don't know. It's interesting stuff. Have the conversation sooner rather than later. All of them, David. Embrace it. Great hour, Rachel Cruz. So much fun. Thanks to the team in the control room for keeping us on the air. To you, America, thank you for listening. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey folks, Ken Coleman here. Did you know The Ramsey Show is one of the most popular podcasts in the world? Get your daily dose of advice on life and money. Check out all of our shows from The Ramsey Network wherever you listen to podcasts.