The Ramsey Show - App - My Husband Lost $150K Day Trading Behind My Back (Hour 1)

Episode Date: September 22, 2022

Dr. John Delony & Rachel Cruze discuss: Selling things vs. giving them away, Whether or not to raise rent (on a relative), Coping with horrific financial infidelity, Making a career move to get out of debt.   Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6   Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Лавровый путь Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Pods Moving and Storage Studio, it's The Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the B&W as the status symbol of choice. I'm John Deloney, joined here by bestselling author and good friend Rachel Cruz. We are taking your calls on money, life, relationships, work, all of it. Give us a shout, toll free, 888-825-5225.

It's 888-825-5225. And Rachel can't even take it anymore. She's got huge news. What is it? I'm so excited to announce today is the launch of a new podcast out by the Ramsey Network, Smart Money Happy Hour. She's so excited she can't hide it. She's about to lose control

and I think she'll like it. Thank you. Okay, tell me about this. Yeah, I know. So George Campbell and myself we were just talking this was this was like probably nine ten eleven months ago we were like man we need a fun just quick you know 30 minute podcast every week talking about what's going on in the world with money because there's always something interesting right whether it's the royals are in the news uh is that interesting oh yeah because then you like tie in money and you're like okay so how does

like like tell me all about them or like um i mean even pop culture right or inflation or the thing this one j-lo and ben what it's gonna be like let's talk about weddings like we're gonna we just are like there are things going on in the world that connect to money and we need a place to talk about it so it's two friends happen to be money experts armed with a cocktail and we're gonna just chat about money in life and it's really exciting so anyway so the there's two episodes that dropped today again smart money happy hour uh if you love podcasts go and subscribe but please listen and give us your feedback because uh yeah george and i we love it and it's somebody who's sat by you two in real life and listened to you all just go, it's so fun.

It's basically like that. It's so fun. I know. That's what I mean. It's so fun. We record it. It's recorded. Put it out there.

So that's so exciting. We're making money fun. One more time. Smart Money Happy Hour. So go subscribe, listen to wherever you listen to podcasts. Wherever you listen to podcasts. Fantastic. Smart Money Happy Hour.

And there's a drink of the day. Yeah. We have every listen to podcasts. Fantastic. Smart money happy hour. And there's a drink of the day. Yeah, we have a cocktail each episode. So you'll get actually the recipe for that, the breakdown of how much it costs to make at home versus a restaurant. Making money fun. All of it. We're making money fun again.

I love it. Making money fun again. Way to go, Rachel. All right, let's go to Kathleen in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. What's up, Kathleen? Hello? What's up? Hi. Okay. I was calling, hi to both of you. And I was, I was calling, we're in step four, five, and six. And I've got

two kind of youngish kids and a job. And so they, you know, they change out of toys and they change out of clothes and the house can become overwhelming. And so I would love to just, I feel good about when I give it to friends and family, but there's some stuff that I would love to just like purge and give to, you know, a donation place. But then I have to be Ramsey and my head saying, sell everything so the kids think they're next. So how do I balance that of like, my house is not paid off, but we are in four, five, and six. So I mean, I could always, you know, we're always like, where do I feel like I'm wasting my time versus wasting my money or my money making opportunity? Or does that make sense? Yeah. Great question.

Absolutely. Well, I think the whole sell so much stuff the kids think they're next applies really with the gazelle intensity of Baby Step 2. So when you're getting out of debt, it's like you're trying to get 10 bucks wherever you can. I mean, it's just like any dollar that goes towards paying off your debt gets you that much closer to being debt free. So a lot of that intensity and that verbiage really for me is a sign for baby step two.

You're in baby step four, five and six. So yeah, you're trying to pay off the house. But if you sell a pair of your kids shoes for eight bucks, yeah, sure, it's eight bucks towards the mortgage. But I mean, it's not the end of the world like at that point. Now, if it's like $800 that you could sell something, that's probably worth it. So it's really going to, you're going to have to look to see, okay, what, yeah, what's worth it and what's not.

And I can tell you, Kathleen, on my end, we, I rarely sell anything. I mostly give stuff away. I text pictures from like kids' clothes and shoes to neighbors and family, like you said, or I just put them in a big trash bag and take it to Goodwill. I mean, like I'm, I'm, I don't spend the time, you time you know there but i'm on baby step seven do you know i'm saying so like it's kind of like where you're at so maybe step two i'd be selling everything and get what you can to pay off that consumer debt where you're at it's going to depend on the price point and if it's worth the hassle uh for you and then when she gets baby step seven that's when you're like hey

yeah you it's not bad to sell stuff but also you have the freedom to be like i'm just gonna i'm just gonna be able to give give a bunch i'll go ahead i was gonna say last thing and if it's like kids toys i know for our for our house it's like sonic kid meal toys that are i'm like trash trash like i don't want to give this to anyone because this is like a curse to you and i don't want you to like have this like it's terrible terrible yeah if somebody brings because this is like a curse to you and I don't want you to like have this. Like it's terrible. Terrible.

Yeah. If somebody brings a bunch of Happy Meal toys to you, they're not your friend. They don't like you. Question the relationship. Yeah. Similar to Rachel, I look at this as baby steps one, two, and even into three is about survival. Four, five, and six, and seven is about creating a life that is worth living.

Right? Four, five, and six, and seven is about creating a life that is worth living. So, Rachel, the way I break this down is, what's my hourly wage I'm going to pay myself to do this thing? Even when it comes to mowing my yard, and part of that's meditative and counseling for me is just being out on the mower for a while. But I ask myself, if I'm going to take an hour of my day, and that's the most precious resource I have, which is my time. Now that I'm not running for my life anymore, what am I going to get for this hour? And if it's $8, I'm probably not going to, I'm probably going to give it away and bless somebody with it and move on with my life. If it's $800, I'm not worth that much. So I'll make that trade, right? I'll definitely make that trade so hope that helps Kathleen yes yes thank you some of it I think is changing your identity from trying to not die to how do I build a life that I it's worth living is that fair yes definitely are you struggling with that part of it um no just maybe just maybe the guilt of it of like could i could i be doing

more but then but yeah but then the the like you said with your analogy of the mowing the lawn like is it really worth it running around the city for five dollars so not with our gas prices absolutely not yes unless you drive a Tesla like Rachel. It's for sure not worth it. It's for sure not worth it. Hey, I think we under talk about this, Rachel, is shifting identities from one of running for your life and one to how do you live?

Because I think a lot of us grew up in households where debt was just the way things were. And so when it goes we move to a baby steps four five and six and seven we're creating a life that we've not ever seen right or we especially have never felt it what's it like to not look be looking over your shoulder all the time and it feels irresponsible if you've been looking over your shoulder your whole life yeah how do you settle into that well and there there isn't it i love that you asked the identity question because for so many people getting out of debt,

it's it. Like that is life. That is everything you're working towards, everything. And the moment it ends, yes, you get the freedom

and the peace, but a lot of people are like, oh my God, what do we do? What do I do now? I don't know what to do now. Where do I focus my time

and my energy? Like it's, it is a weird paradigm shift. Now you gotta be married or whatever, right? Yeah, that's right. You gotta go on a date now. Right.

Yeah, yeah. And that's a whole other candle. All right, 888-825-5225. This is the Ramsey Show. We'll be right back. this is the Ramsey show 888-825-5225 I'm John Deloney joined here

by Rachel Cruz and we're taking your calls on money and relationships and work and mental health and life, all of it. 888-825-5225. Let's go to Sean in Phoenix. What is up, Sean? Hey, guys. Thanks for having me here.

You got it. What's up? The question is, so kind of backtrack a little bit. In, like, beginning of the pandemic, I was looking at buying a house. In order to qualify for that house, like, I was going to be renting out my old one. So I needed, like, to get that place rented quick for the income. They wanted to include that in the qualifying process there. I ended up renting it out to my cousin. Stars kind of aligned.

His lease was coming up and his landlord at the time was going to be rent, like increasing up to like 1800, 1900, something like that. I said, Hey, if you want to move in my house, it's not only bigger, it's closer to your work here and I'll rent it to you for like 1600 and everything's been good. Uh, he's been there since like May, 2020 and we're coming out, like, I mean, passing the two year mark here and that place currently rents would rent for around 2,500. Um, and I'm just curious and like if i should increase the rent like what the expectation like but how i should do that if i should at all i guess uh to family there um i i don't have a problem with you raising rent like i i think the the challenge here is a there's something in your spirit that's not settled and b there's something relational that has kept you from just sitting down and having this conversation yeah that's that's my i just wanted to make sure

yeah you're not a bad guy the right way yeah you're not a bad guy, Sean. I was going about it the right way. Yeah. You're not a bad guy for raising the rent, right? I mean, you're not. This isn't a ministry to him, right? This is your investment. And you guys, it worked out well then. And so, I mean, like, so I want to get to, like, the heart stuff, like what John was saying. But on a tactical level, you know, if it was me, I think having the conversation of hey so 2500 is is market value i'm not going to take you there this year like i mean i think if you went almost a

thousand bucks up i mean i think you could there's nothing morally wrong with it but it's a little bit of a whiplash like yeah that's right yeah is there a middle ground to say hey i'm gonna raise you to 2000 this this year and just expect probably another bump next year i might you know maybe i'll give you a little bit of a discount for market rape since we're family. And if you, Sean, can afford that, and that's okay, then that's okay. But I wouldn't, man, I wouldn't, I understand why you're hesitating and I want you to break that down with John a little bit more, but because it is awkward. Yeah, but I think you nailed it, Sean. I think there's what you're doing isn't right or wrong. I think it's just business. I think how you do it is going to be, do you do it. Sean, I think what you're doing isn't right or wrong.

I think it's just business. I think how you do it is going to be, do you do it with dignity? Or do you send him an email and say, hey, I'm raising rates, $1,000 a month, effective, whatever? Or do you call him or go visit him in person and say, look, here's the deal, man. This thing's gone up so much. I can't in good faith. I can't continue to afford to run it this low. Do you want to stay in

it because this is what the rent's going to be for you versus with the market you see what i'm saying there's a right way to do it and giving him an option is a great idea too because it says dignity that he chooses then it's you being a grown-up and saying here's what i'm choosing i'll give you the opportunity to be an adult and choose to so i guess like the the thing was like i don't mind helping him out. So like, cause he's been wanting to get into a house himself and I've been sending them houses. Like I know by house prices have gone up and stuff, but I'm starting to see a cool down here at Phoenix. I sent him a house that like just recently dropped like 50,000. And then he's like, he's just full of

excuses on terms of why he can't, can't do it. And it's like, I don't mind giving you a discount to help you get ahead. But then if you're taking that money and then going on vacations with it and doing this in terms of what I've seen, it's like, what do you do? Look, that's why you need to get out of this. I feel like I'm getting squeezed a little bit. Well, you are because you have expectations of him that y'all did not agree on. He didn't agree that he was going to live under market value for two years and save up for a house.

That's what you want him to do. And so now you're getting mad about an arrangement that y'all don't even have. And so if you sit down with him and say, I will let you be for six more months, we're going to ride this out, or three more months, and you can get a house. But after this, I've got to go back to market value here. You've had two and a half years. Yeah.

Here's the agreement. That's, that's a totally different thing, but it's really not fair for you to get mad about an arrangement that doesn't exist in real life. True. Uh, yeah,

we haven't discussed on it there. So I guess it's just more, I've been just like asking around and stuff there for, and I've gotten my, my wife, uh, we're talking about it and that difference of opinion. I'm like,

you know, I'm going to call, call the Ramseys and see what they say. So the best answer Rachel and I can give you in this kind of situation is what do we do with our family? And I would do exactly what we have just said is I'd call my cousin and go grab some coffee and say, how's your life? How are you doing?

The market has shifted dramatically. And so I've got to have to put this up at a higher rate. I'm making that choice. Not blaming anybody. I'm owning that choice because I'm an adult. And I'll cut you this deal for this long, but then I'm going to have to make a move. And if you want to stay, I'd love to have you as a tenant.

You've been a great tenant. If you've got to go, I totally understand you've got to leave. And really, you're framing the conversation as you're giving them permission to leave, not that you are kicking them out. Yeah. Right. He makes the choice.

He makes the choice. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So Sean, that's awkward though. Like I get it. Be clear.

Yes. Yes. That's the, be clear. And here's another thing for those of you, because real estate, I feel like people love, it's just a hot topic of like investment,

real estate, having rentals, passive income, all of it. But always, always raise the rent. If you're a landlord, even if it's 20 bucks, 50 bucks. Because there is something that said if you just keep the same rent for three years, suddenly sometimes the renter can feel entitled to it. No, no, no.

You can't raise my rent. It's been the same and I've been good. And as a landlord, like, no, no, no. What he just experienced, I just ran comps for the first time in three years and now it's at this. It's a thousand dollars. Yeah, so always, if there is, if you have that in your life, if you have a rental, raise it. Even, again, 50 bucks. It doesn't have to be a lot, but enough

of movement there that it doesn't stay stagnant. I've never heard that. Okay. There you go, John. Did you learn something new from me? I just learned real estate things. I'm a real estate mogul. Off air, I was learning all about these wild conspiracies and everything and ancient things. There are some weird stuff in the world. We won't do it on this podcast.

I learned about real estate. Okay. We got a minute left before we go to break. Tell me more about this new podcast. Oh, yes. The Smart Money Happy Hour. Smart Money Happy Hour, where George Campbell and I are hosting it together. And it's a really casual podcast.

So it's definitely a podcast. If you love the Ramsey show, if you have a friend that you're like, man, I really wish they would like kind of engage their money a little bit more and listen. But if this show that you're listening to currently is a little bit too like- Intense or hardcore, the Smart Money Happy Hour is a great kind of entryway into talking about money. So yeah, so we talk about pop culture, things going on, trends, stuff we're seeing. It's basically the conversations you wish you were having with your friends when it comes to money. We're going to have it

on a microphone that you get to listen to. I love it. Hey, have you ever noticed that when you commit to change in one area of your life, it's easier to make progress in other areas. I met thousands of people on their journey to build wealth who've accomplished other amazing things along the way, like losing a bunch of weight, finding career that they love, fixing their marriage, overcoming stress and anxiety. What seems impossible becomes possible when you have a smart plan and you turn up the focus and intensity on your goals. That's why we're bringing Smart Conference to Dallas, Texas on Saturday, October 22nd. Smart Conference is the one-day event where we help you build momentum in all areas of your life.

Whether you just lost your job, the credit card bills eating up your paycheck, or you feel alone in this crazy world, we got you. Ramsey personalities, Rachel Cruz, myself, Ken Coleman, Christina Ellis, George Campbell will join Dave Ramsey on stage to give you a smart plan for your money, your relationships, your personal growth, and your career. Live, in person, October 22nd. Get your passes before they sell out.

Visit ramseysolutions.com slash events to reserve reserve your seats this is a fun event and i just saw the timeline you have the longest keynote did you know that john well i mean they're giving you more time giving him all the time all the time and i was like wow i will all conceit but no here's the deal george and i will have shorter shorter keynotes talking about money. They know that John's full of hot air and he can't stop talking. That's why they're like, we'll just prep for it. No, it's a really fun day.

So come out if you're in Dallas or somewhere near. It's my first one. It's great. It's a fun event. I'm looking forward to it. 888-825-5225. This is The Ramsey Show. We'll be right back. សូវាប់ពីបានប់ពីបានប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពី This is the Ramsey Show, 888-825-5225.

Let's go to Kate in Stanford, Connecticut. What is up, Kate? Hi. Good afternoon. Thanks for taking my call. How are we doing? I'm doing well. How are you?

I'm good. I'm good. What's up? How can we help? Okay. In the last couple months, it has come to light that there's been some pretty significant financial infidelity from my husband who got involved in day trading and has subsequently lost about $150,000. Whoa. I know.

It's a giant pill to swallow and one that I'm just honestly still like in shock about. I still can't believe it. I just can't believe it. Um, so this is a combination of about $105,000 in personal loans and about 42 ish in credit card debt. Um, all of this was like within the last, you know, maybe six, seven months. It happened very quickly. And honestly, it's all just come out now. And so my concern is that the minimum amount for all of this debt combined and then it's like a more manageable monthly payment for me, you know, because minimum payments, it's crippling. I don't even know how do you do this for the rest of time, you know, because if you're only paying the minimum, that's what we're looking at.

Oh, gosh, I can hear it on you. Oh, my gosh. Thank you. One, I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. Thank you. Thank you. I want to first norm what's going on inside of you. You are right to be

maniacally angry and you are right to be stunned and in shock and grieving and upset and scared and anxious. All of those things are right. Okay. I just don't want you to feel like you're going crazy. You probably are going to feel like you're going crazy, but not because your feelings are wrong. I would be having all of those things too. What is your entire home's, what is your take-home income as a family? Together, we're at $250,000 annually. Okay. I'll let Rachel hop in here. Here's what I'm going to tell you.

Do not make a mess even messier. Okay. Okay? I know you can't breathe right now. Your breath will come back to you. You'll have a big cell or you've got a huge, huge mess on your hands. Yeah. What often happens is, let's take regular infidelity. Okay? You find out somebody you love has cheated on you romantically. Yeah. What often happens is, let's take regular infidelity. Okay? You find out somebody you love has cheated on you romantically. Yeah. There's this, I want to fix it. I want to solve all this right this second so that we can get back to, quote unquote, the way things were. Sure.

And what you want to do is, you are hurting so bad right now. You've got this magic HELOC that you want to solve it all. And you want to go do that and take it out and just get back to the way things were, and then we'll figure it out later in a more manageable way. Yeah. The best way forward is for you to realize, your husband to realize, what y'all knew before is now over. You're living in relationship 2.0.

Right. And you've got to rebuild what this thing's going to look like together. And I think personally, what led your husband down this path is something he's going to have to heal from personally. And y'all are going to have to heal relationally. And a quick band-aid fix over this or just moving debt from one arm to the other does not solve that. It kicks the can down the road. Y'all got to deal with this. I'd love to see him go get a second job, a third job, and crank this sucker out on behalf of his

family and make this thing happen. But just trying to jump in and solve it and fix his problem is not the best thing for your marriage, for your financial security, for your kids long-term. Yeah, Kate, not to make light of the situation, but one of my favorite quotes from Warren Buffett, which we used a lot during the COVID pandemic, was people make the worst decisions with money when they're drunk or when they're afraid. And you are that second.

And so the fear that I hear from you, which I get, I have three little kids, and if that bomb was dropped on me, yeah, you can't breathe. I mean, the fear of knowing how are we going to pay our bills? How am I going to get food on the table? I feel this complete whiplash in a marriage sense from my husband, the secrets that I had no clues. You're dealing with that on one side,

and then the tactical nuts and bolts of being a mom with kids and trying to figure out how am I going to do this? So I, I'm so sorry. I, I, I hurt so much for you. Um, but I don't want you to make a bad financial decision because you're in fear. And so what John was saying is so right. Just take a breath. Okay. And that will come easier and easier with time, but don't getting a HELOC. It moves the problem from one to the other. And yes, it can feel like, okay, the payments may be a little bit different, but that keeps you guys in this mess and in this memory longer and longer and longer. And so in a, in a dream world, you and your husband sit down, Kate, together and you say,

okay, we make $250,000. You bring home probably around $15,000 a month after taxes and say, now we have this new $5,000 payment. So here's what we can afford in our budget to pay as is. And I don't know what that looks like for you guys. We don't have time to unpack every number of your budget, but say you have two, three, $3,000 left at the end of your budget in general, right? And then you're like, okay, we got to make up whatever the difference is. Is it another 2000 you got to make up? And then I want you to add on more to that because like you were saying, just paying the minimum payment, you're gonna be paying interest and all of this stuff. It just keeps going and going. And so how can you attack it? And so I want you guys to run numbers together, get a spreadsheet out, get a calculator out and just say, okay, scenario one,

you take an extra job and you're going to make X amount per month. Here's how quickly timeline wise we can pay this debt off. We can pay it off in three years and two months. If you take two jobs and you work four nights a week, five nights a week, we can pay it off in three years and two months. If you take two jobs and you work four nights a week, five nights a week, we can pay it off in two years and eight months and run scenarios, Kate. Okay. Sit there with a yellow pad because what's going to happen is,

and John says this all the time, facts are your friends. When you start to see numbers, not just fear in your head and not having a plan, but when you actually see numbers on a sheet of paper, that logic is going to help you navigate the best decision. And, um,

and man, you, you guys have a hard three to four years ahead of you, Kate, you do. And, and that is the unfortunate part of marriage that when you are in a unified relationship,

it is now your debt, even though it was his decision that he went down this road and so i would the anger is real and justified all of it um so i don't want you to shy away from those things because that is very real and that's a part of your healing process towards him kate i wish you could feel this i can feel the anger on rachel right well it just pisses me off kate for you it does and and when i wonder too and this is john's lane but i'm like what he was going through what what was the thing right is it is it an addict is there an addiction there that he's like i think i could do it it's almost a gambling feeling of this day trading is it

that he wanted something else to be this i mean i've like looked at every scenario and this this can only be yep um it's day trading addiction it's not necessarily gambling like at the casino in my mind it's the same thing like it is it comes from the same place did you um not that this matters did you find out on your own or did he come and tell you um to be honest with you i just had this feeling something wasn't right and i just looked at him i said tell me right now what's happening. And he just broke down. And he only told me a little bit at a time.

It wasn't that bad. And then a little bit more, a little bit more. And then honestly, just in the last few weeks, did the extent of this come out. So I'm in the deer in headlights right now. I mean, he's not day trading anymore. And I have direct deposit. His paycheck comes right to me,

so there is no more money to... But, I mean, now I'm left with having to carry this burden and make the decisions. Who do I pay this month? Who do I not? And I'm kind of left dealing with this. Can't do it alone, Kate. Can't do it alone.

You bring him in and get... And if you guys have a good pastor, a good therapist, a good counselor in the area, do that Kate. And hold on the line. We're going to give you guys Financial Peace University and it's not going to be the silver bullet in this situation, but I hope at least getting on the same page with money and that you guys have the same shared goal and same vision is going to be really important. So Austin will pick up and give that to you guys for a year, but I'm so sorry, Kate. I'm so sorry. Sick to my stomach. Don't do anything for six, six months. Just hang in there. This is the Ramsey Show, 888-825-5225.

Let's go to Brian in Savannah, Georgia. Let's see here. What's up, Brian? Hey. Hey. What's up, man? Hey, thanks for taking the call. Of course.

What's up? How can we help? So my wife is, she's part of a nonprofit, a very small nonprofit. They do Christian counseling. Okay. a non-profit a very small non-profit they do uh christian counseling okay and she's kind of been uh tapped for she's been part of the ministry for you know four or five years now but she's kind of been tapped to kind of take over uh as a ceo of the non-profit um the uh the founder who is the ceo now is stepping down to basically retire she's's late, you know, late 70s. But anyhow, so as she

steps down, the question came up or the request is that she still gets paid like, you know, a certain amount of money per month. And so, which is actually a pretty big burden because it's less than a hundred thousand dollar annual budget probably. Uh, and she's getting somewhere between 2000, $2,500 a month. So the question is, we're not really sure how you would handle that. Her stepping into that. My wife doesn't want to, we want to honor the person, you know, that, that, that started the ministry, but then there's also the burden that it puts on the person you know that that that started the ministry but then there's also the

burden that it puts on the ministry itself that it's it's kind of hand to mouth kind of thing so we just we wanted some unbiased opinion i guess is what we're looking what does she want to why does she think she's entitled to eternal payments um because she founded it i guess because she is yeah she's the founder i mean she yeah she started it and then i guess that uh you know for her i guess that's what she she looks at it as is kind of like hey i started this i should continue to be paid you know for a while you know at least in perpetuity as as far as she's concerned is this like her retirement brian was she banking on this

like was that um i don't think it was something she was banking on i mean she gets social security i mean she's had other jobs previously i mean this has been her the the full-time job um this has been the full-time job for her for probably the past maybe seven or eight years i guess uh and my wife we've already talked about it we she doesn't expect to get to get paid at all um it'll be basically uh because it is christian counseling she gets she gets paid when she counsels people is this done out of a church uh it is not out of a church no sir okay so it has like y'all have rent you pay and all that kind of stuff yes sir so they have rent they have you know yeah they rent offices they have like three or four offices they rent so it's actually grown quite a bit since my wife's been part of it they they sure they have um yeah honestly the non-profit side you know the profit

side you sell those you sell the practice to someone you got you know what i'm saying like it's that but the non-profit yeah this whole thing feels gross to me brian i'm just gonna be honest with you um and i'm i'm willing to be wrong here uh so i won't speak on behalf of the ramsey company i'll speak on behalf of john deloney um i've worked at non-profits for the majority of my career whether it was a university or an educational setting or when I was in college at a church, right? In all of those places, I was on call 24-7, 365. I showed up at hospitals. I helped design and build buildings with architects and engineering. To expect to then leave and just get paid on work I'm not doing anymore just because I founded a program or started this. That to me sounds insane.

If I'm doing a job that has intellectual property rights to it or I'm running a business that is not propped up by the nonprofit status that I don't have to pay taxes on it, I get all these different cuts all over the place and I'm owning all of the risk here, and then I'm going to sell that? That's one thing. Yes, sir. Somebody is saying, okay, it's time for me to retire. It's time for me to resign.

Then it's time for you to retire, and it's time for you to resign. I'm just thinking here, I can't imagine myself leaving and being like, hey, Dave, how about you just pay me a salary for the rest of my life? That just seems bizarre, but it seems equally bizarre to call back old universities i worked for um and say hey you should give me something she did found it she did um help people out she's probably

benefited from people working um for less than market rate for a long time because they've got great hearts she's probably benefited from the non-profit stat all the stuff and that doesn't undermine how much work she is. But this is, this is not about personal ownership or intellectual property. This is about, I've been trying to help people for a long time. I want to keep helping people for a long time. And now I'm passing that helping baton onto somebody else.

And so I don't feel good about it. Yeah. And that's, that's kind of where we were at just because it's, it's pretty heavy burden. You know, a quarter of your budget kind of goes to that. Yeah, which makes me sad for her, where I'm like, her legacy, if she goes through with this,

can't even be propped up well because I'm taking the money out of the counseling center for my own good, and they can barely make payments on rent and salary and stuff. So from a mathematical standpoint, it's like she's driving her own thing into the ground, which makes no sense either. So let's, let's be honest about two things. Okay. One,

she probably, I want to, I want to think through her side of this. I want to be empathetic. I can't imagine that she has put heart, blood, sweat and tears into this thing for years. And this is a big part of her identity.

And this may be a way, less she has to have the money and more she wants to stay connected because this thing is part of her. And that's hard, right? So maybe having some way to honor her in the community, get the paper, some way to honor her will be,

I think would be worth this. It would be right. The other thing is this. You can't control what she goes and does after you say we're not going to continue to fund we're not going to continue to to pay you she can go out and trash all she can go out and say mean things about you she can try to close the non-profit down then before she she can try to do any number of things she might be able to close it down as the as the ceo who's leaving she might be able to close it down as the CEO who's leaving.

She might be able to shut the whole thing down. Just cancel it. Y'all have to be prepared for here's what could happen and don't be surprised by it and don't let your boundaries waver because of the loud volume and the screaming and the yelling or whatever might happen

or the name calling or the mean emails or whatever. Does that make sense? Oh, yeah. Yeah, of course. Yeah, I appreciate you guys. All right. Hey, thanks for that. Good luck moving forward.

That one's tough. That one's tough, man. Oh, man. All right, let's go to Chester in Washington, D.C. Hey, Chester, we're up against the clock. What's up, man? Yeah, so thank you guys for having me. I do appreciate it very much.

So let's see where I start. yeah so uh thank you guys for having me i do appreciate it very much so um let's see where i start okay so i'm about if you count student debt uh car debt well one car debt um uh every debt i guess combined it equals about i guess 125k 25k okay and uh currently i'm a congressional staffer not a staffer intern right um but you are on staff and my wife works at cracker barrel and recently we've been presented with an opportunity from a church that is uh near us to be directors of a program they have that is basically um it helps people who are homeless. Of course, there's a thorough background check, so it's not like violent criminals or any of that that are allowed, but they give them a place to stay, and it also helps them find work and then gives them

a spiritual foundation to send them back into the world so they don't- Are they going to pay you real money, Chester? $4,000 a month, yes, sir. What does your congressional intern pay you besides a high five? Oh, Jesus. $1,500 a month. That's right, yes. I would make the move. Yes, sir. But one thing, they're also going to provide us a place to live, not with the people, but it's like our own place to live. I'd make the move.

With all amenities paid. Get your debt paid off. That's awesome. Yeah, get your debt paid off. What's the hesitation, Chester? Ma'am? What's the hesitation? Just, I don't know.

Honestly, ma'am, I don't know. My wife, I guess she's a lot more spiritually in tune than me, and she feels like it's a God thing. And I guess I'm starting to feel the way too. So I guess it scares me a little bit. How old are you guys? I'm 27. She is 22. Do you want to do this, Chester? Like with your life? Does this sound... I love helping people. That's why I can't... That sounds crazy, but that's why I...

That's not crazy at all. We do too. This is my wife's dream as well. I... That's not crazy at all. We do too. This is my wife's dream as well. I think it's great, Chester. I think it's great. I think you guys, both young in their 20s, change is weird, change is hard, change is scary, but it sounds solid.

The math works out well. Better in your favor. Better in your favor. And you guys can do something you love together. You don't have to be a 27-year-old intern anymore. Go for it, man. Go for it, Chester. You got it. You got it.

This is The Ramsey Show. We'll be right back. Hey, it's Rachel Cruz, co-host on The Ramsey Show. If you want to do your debt-free scream live on the show, visit ramseysolutions.com slash debt-free scream. We'd love for you to come to Nashville and tell Dave your story. That's ramseysolutions.com slash debt-free scream.