The Ramsey Show - App - My Husband Pays Too Much Child Support (Hour 3)

Episode Date: April 29, 2021

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us, America. Open phones this hour at 888-825-5225 that's 888-825-5225 amanda starts off this hour dr john deloney is my co-host today and she's in cincinnati hi amanda how are you good how are you guys doing better Better than I deserve. What's up? We are getting ready to list our house in about a week or so.

We already spoke with a realtor, and she had originally recommended to list the home between $345,000 to $355,000, kind of creating a bidding war. My husband and I are somewhat concerned that that's going to leave money on the table, that with this market the way that it is, we could list the home higher and still possibly get a bidding war for this area. Okay. Well, it's just a matter of where the bidding stops, not where it starts. Okay. Right? Okay. Let's say you list it for 355 and the bidding runs it up to did you said three right 355 yes yeah you list it for 355 and the bidding runs it up to 400 or you list it for 375 and the bidding runs it up to 400 you still got only 400

right my point is where it ends up. It's not where it starts. My question is, what is it about your real estate agent that makes you think you and your husband are smarter than the professional you hired? That's a good question. That tells me either you got a crappy professional and you need to get a new one that you trust, or you and your husband need to dial it back about 30 and let the professional you hired do their job so what is it about this person she is younger um so that's always a concern i've not worked with her before is she one of our elps she is not she is a very determined young lady. She has been contacting us. We've been at her house for almost 20 years,

and she's been contacting us often throughout those years to check in to see how things are going, to see if she could offer her services. So she's very proactive in trying to drum up business, which was impressive. How many houses did she sell last year? I let my husband pick her. I didn't do the research, which is not good on my part yeah this is this is a five hundred thousand four hundred thousand dollar transaction and you're hiring a professional you need to know how often they sell a house if she sold four houses last

year you've got the wrong person yeah you don't want a neophyte guiding you through this market this is not a market for this is not amateur hour this is a weirdophyte guiding you through this market. This is not a market for, this is not amateur hour. This is a weird market. And what you're worried about is can she handle the bidding process? And if she's done five or six of these in the last two months and can walk you through the transactional is exactly what happened. We'll talk about this. And she sold 50 houses last year. We'll talk about this.

If she sold three houses last year, you know more about it than she does. Yeah. And Amanda, I'm giving you a hard time. I just got friends who will go, you know, get an x-ray and the doctor will say, hey, I think it's this. That's me. And they'll go, nah, that's not right. And I'll think, why did you go to that doctor? Or they'll get a roofer out and they'll be like, that's not the problem.

And the roofer's like, all right, man. And so I'm just always curious as to why people hire professionals. And then they go, nah, that's not right. uh i got google i'm smarter so yeah so the problem that we've run into is we've hired many professionals or what we thought were professionals and um we're either unable not able to get them to do the work most of them we can't get a call back yeah and then we just end up doing it ourselves and trying to figure it out already listed the property and signed the listing agreement we have not circle back re-interview her go online at Dave Ramsey dot com or at Ramsey solutions dot com and click on ELP and interview one of those people or two of those people and pick among those three based on their experience

and their ability to show you that they know how to navigate this whacked out, white-hot market that we're in, how to navigate the bidding process. So, you know, John picking on you is one thing. Yeah, I'm giving you a hard time. But the truth is he did call out that you just don't have confidence in her. Yes, yeah. And that's the end of that you don't. The truth is he did call out that you just don't have confidence in her. Yes. Yeah. And that's the end of the story right there.

So we need to either gain confidence in her by circling back one more time and comparing her to two others or drop her. I don't care how persistent she was. Okay. And so because you need someone to navigate this, and I think either way you could end up at the 400 mark or whatever the mark is, whether you start at 355 or 375. If you've got someone that knows how to navigate that process and juggle those multiple offers coming in, set the deadlines, set the table properly where there's a bunch of urgency for, you know, the 10 people that want to put in an offer and go, guys, here's what we're doing. And it doesn't matter if you started at 300, if everybody keeps ratcheting up and gets you to 400, right? Right.

So again, the starting position doesn't matter. Who can navigate this market it's not amateur hour and amanda this is me being honest here i'm that that's why i'm the pot talking at the kettle here no i do it my wife it drives her crazy why do we hire people john if you're just gonna disagree with them after they tell you what their professional opinion because i don't take because i you you need to be able to defend your position. I love that. I agree with you. You know, the first baby we had, we go in, and I'm asking all these questions because I didn't know anything about it.

And, you know, and I'm like, no, what about this? I read about this. And he's like back and forth and back and forth. Well, the nurse that was in there thought it was ridiculous that I was asking all these questions like you just said. And so she called me Dr. Ramsey every visit after that how are you doing today dr ramsey and i'm like well honey you know maybe you're not used to people questioning whether you know what the flip you're doing or not but i'm paying you you work for me and i'm happy to ask you if you're competent and what i've found is true professionals love teaching about their craft

oh she was she wasnatured about it. Of course, yeah. That's why the whole Dr. Ramsey sarcasm thing. I had a roofer out the other night, and they did some work at my house, and I had a question about some of the work they did. They came out, and, man, once I started asking questions, he loved teaching about roofing, and he knew exactly what he was talking about. He left his tool with me and said,

You use it, you bring it back when you're done with it, because I'm right. I want the bulldozer guy to do that that would be cool that would be awesome you use this over the weekend and i'll be back that's right i got a i got a moisture meter you got a bulldozer but yeah i i love i love asking questions to professionals and the ones in my experience the ones who don't have an attitude about it but are excited to talk about what their craft is the doctors like want to send you research articles want to have a good discussion i love that the theologians that want to do that but if they bow up and they're like arrogant and they're like listen i'm the doc i'm like well listen no you're not anymore i'll get another one yeah i'll get another one because i'm gonna know enough about what's going on to make a decision and at least ask a question well i'm i'm steward over my life i have

to manage my life and you don't manage my life you're just a part of what's going on and the you know the mechanic working on my car same thing yeah you know it's i don't i'm not calling you a crook i just want to understand enough to know why we're getting where we're getting and i'm going to critically think with you once I grasp it through this process. That's right. Not micromanaging, but I'm good with this. I want to learn. What is it about your real estate agent that makes you want to question the professional?

I love it. Amanda's good. This is awesome. This is The Ramsey Show. Ever wonder how to save more money or pay off debt fast? What about the right way to invest? Listen, I've been there, asking the same questions with no idea where to turn for answers. But here's the good news. You don't have to keep searching for answers. Ramsey Plus will guide you every step of the way so you always know what to do next with money. Ramsey Plus is our step-by-step plan that shows you how to get consistent small wins with money and even some big ones so you can see

exactly how you're making progress then we help you turn all those wins into better habits that last you can be confident that you're doing the right thing with money and that means no debt payments cash in the bank for emergencies and a plan for your future. Get started today with a free trial of Ramsey Plus at RamseySolutions.com slash Ramsey Plus. That's RamseySolutions.comoney Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Have you ever made a dumb decision with zeros on the end because you didn't do your research? Yeah, me too. Check your facts. As we were just talking about, if you're moving a piece of real estate, if you're trying to sell a piece of real estate, particularly right now in this wacky, crazy market, it's not amateur hour.

You need a pro in your corner. Never buy a house without the facts. Text HOUSE to 33789. That'll get you in touch with one of our real estate ELPs, an agent who is a high-protein, high-octane agent moving a bunch of properties and knows how to navigate this market, especially if you're selling in this market. Text HOUSE to 33789. Megan is with us in Greenville, South Carolina. Hi, Megan. How are you?

Hi, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. How can we help? I guess I just don't know where to start. My husband and I just got married in January. Congratulations. We're renting. Thank you. We're renting. I just started a new job last September. I'm a lawyer, and he just switched jobs working for a big steel company.

Now he works for my parent's company. And I'm three figures in student debt combined with his. We have about $10,000 in credit card debt, probably $30,000 in debt in cars. And like I said, we rent. And we're kind of at our breaking point of like $200 on our checking account, and we just don't know what to even do. What is the actual balance on the student loans? I'd say about $175. Okay. And what are you making?

I make $75. What's he making? $50. Okay, so we have $125,000 to attack this with. All right. Well, the great news is you have a good degree. The bad news is you paid a lot for it, and you're deeply in debt because of it. So you're going to be shoveling a while.

Yeah, and that's hard because I know that a lot of that is me. I'd say I've got about 150, and he's got about 25. So together, about 175. So tell me about the cars. Are they two 15s or a 20 and a 10 or what? One's a 2016 F-150, and one's a 2015 Acura. We're upside down in the F-150. So what are they worth each?

Worth? What do you owe on each of them? I owe 25 on the F-150 and we owe 10 on the Acura. You need to sell the F-150? Yes. It's ridiculous. What if we're upside down in it? I don't care.

You're going to have to borrow the money to cover the difference or scrape up the money to cover the difference. So you owe $25,000 on it. What do you think it's worth? Maybe $20,000, maybe $19,000. It's got 175,000 miles. Yeah, okay. Yeah, $5,000 gets you out of that thing,

and you need to get a beater car to drive because you have $175,000 worth of debt to clean up. You don't need a $25,000 gets you out of that thing, and you need to get a beater car to drive because you have $175,000 worth of debt to clean up. You don't need a $25,000 pickup. Okay. It's out of control. I mean, you have a $600 truck payment. No, it's $645 a month. It's crazy.

Almost like I've done this before. Yeah. What kind of law are you practicing? Civil defense. So defending companies that have been sued um and that you know going back to the student loans i guess i have the option in the future to go work for the government and i know that no no no okay you need to just keep working there and go double your income in the next four years yeah that's what and i know that that's coming because i make 75 now i'm sure

that a raise or a bonus or something is going to work. Yeah, I think you'll be making $100,000 pretty quick and $100,500 pretty quick after that if you keep on a standard track for an attorney and you have a decent firm and all that kind of thing. And hopefully your husband's income will continue to go up as well. So here's what you've signed up for. You need to get into a beater car and get rid of the pickup, and then you're going to get on a written game plan a detailed game plan called a budget and you're going to live on nothing and just clean this mess up and it's going to take a while two hundred thousand

dollars if you do fifty thousand a year that's going to be four years if you do seventy five thousand a year it's going to be three years and that means every big bump you get or every bonus it means you're not going out to eat you're not going on vacation and you're not buying a house you're broke yeah and listen i spent i spent years working with lawyers i love them and they will look at your car in the parking lot and then look at you with that disdain that what did you do all this for if that's what you're driving and they're going to ask you why you're renting they're going to ask you man you got a mess to clean up well i'll be honest with you the reason why i called in today was because

that's literally the question i've been asking myself um for the past month like why did i go to school this long like why did i take out all this money because you're gonna make a hundred and a half three years from now. Yeah, and besides that, you can't unring the bell. It's there, so let's just deal with it. Yeah, asking backwards questions gets you nowhere. I wouldn't have signed you up for it, but you're signed up. So now it's about, hey, what are we going to do to get even?

And then, yeah, when you and your husband husband when he's making great money you're making 150 and you're you've made partner if that's even what you choose to continue to do you owe nobody any money that stacks up real real real fast so i want you to think about 75 000 a year on debt which means you're going to take all the OT. He's going to take all the OT. You're going to do anything you can to create income, and you are going to spend nothing. That's going to be very hard this year. Next year, your incomes will go up.

It'll be easier. And the next year, your incomes will go up again. It's going to be even easier. But that'll get you out in three years. You'll be 100% debt-free in three years if you do that. And you passed the bar exam, so I know you can figure out a way to do this. Yes, I did. So you think selling the truck first, that's the first order of business.

No, we're going to do it all at once. We're going to get on a budget, live on nothing, and sell the truck. Okay. But list your debts, smallest to largest. Cut the credit cards up. They've not been a blessing no time to chop them time for plastic surgery okay and he's gonna feel like a like a dingbat driving up to his construction sites in a in a 2014 camry and y'all are both y'all are both in

it right you're both in it you're in it to win it now you don't care what other people think because other people are broke and you're gonna so megan megan do you think this will work yeah i think it'll work so i think we've just got to do it all right i'm gonna help you do it then i want you to i want you to go through our class it's called financial peace university it's inside of a membership called ramsey plus i'm gonna pay for it for a year as your wedding gift oh thank you and the two of you need to sit down tonight and start going through the class get one of Z Plus, I'm going to pay for it for a year as your wedding gift. Oh, thank you. And the two of you need to sit down tonight and start going through the class. Get one of those coaches in your corner. Get that community in your corner.

Get on EveryDollar, the budgeting app. It all is included. It's all free. I'm giving it all to you free. And I want you to work this because you can do this. You can do this. But you have a big mountain to climb. But I've been to the top of it a bunch of times, like a thousand times this week with people.

And so I can show you the way to the top of that mountain, and you're going to make it. If you'll do exactly what we tell you to do, I can get you out. But if you screw around and start coming up with your own plan or you water it down or you start whining, you're not going to make it. But if you roll up your sleeves and bow into this plow into it you can do it hold on kelly will pick up and we'll get you signed up to go i love it man and you get a lawyer focused on something you better get out of your way yeah i mean because you don't get through law school unless you have a level of determination perseverance you can grind and grind and grind for three years that's what you're asking her to do. Yep. And they can do it.

Yeah, she just finished grinding for three years, now three more. That's right. And what they're going to do is they're going to get real resourceful. They're going to find new jobs. They're going to find extra jobs, and they're going to knock that thing out. Yeah, it's going to go. It's going to go. She can do it.

Absolutely she can do it. There's no question about it. I'm positive. And, you know, the interesting thing is, you know why? She believes she can. Yeah, that's right. But, I mean, if you run the numbers, you make $100.25 now, you live on 75, or you spend 75 on debt, that leaves you $50,000 to live on. That's the average household income in America is $59,000.

You're doing just fine. That's right. It's not like we're actually struggling here. No. There's a bunch of taxes coming out of that. And, of course, you're evil rich people, so the current president's going to tax your butt off, it sounds like. But, you know, that's a whole other discussion. But, yeah, you're going to get there.

You're going to make it in spite of Washington getting in your way. Go, go, go. This is The Ramsey Show. We'll be right back. Our question of the day comes from Blinds.com. They have a 100% satisfaction guarantee. That means even if you mismeasure, you pick the wrong color, they'll remake your window blinds for free. That's a if-you-screw-up guarantee. Who does that?

They do. You get free samples, free shipping, and with the new promos they run all the time, you'll save even more. I love this company. Blinds.com. Use the promo code Ramsey. All right, today's question comes from Amber in Georgia. Amber writes, my husband has three children from a previous marriage, and we have four together. He's required to pay child support until his kids are 21 if they live at home and are in college

the oldest is 20 did one semester of college and moved out on her own he is still paying child support for all three of them exclamation point how do i make him see that that he is literally taking away from our financial peace by continuing to support the oldest child. This doesn't sound good, Dave. Well, she doesn't live there anymore. Why are you sending her mother money? No, no, no. He is, I think what she's calling child support is he's continuing to support her. Probably not routing it through mom would be my guess but maybe he is maybe he's still routing he's still paying child support for all

three of them yeah i don't know i i it sounds like she's i mean i got you know that's that's silly yeah if you want to help your 20 year old that's a different discussion but if you're not required legally to pay child support to the ex anymore because the 20-year-old moved out, then I would definitely stop that. Right. This is a separate conversation from child support. This is a conversation dad needs to have with his oldest daughter and dad needs to have with his current wife, Amber, and say, here's how we are or are not going to support folks. Yeah. I mean, it might be okay there may be a situation where

i would help the 20 year old but it would not be a legal child support obligation to help the 20 year old right it sounds like and i've seen this before that amber's been counting down the days and the dollars yeah so she can start seeing some of that money loop back yeah and the reality is amber these kids are always going to be his kids. And there's always going to be some sort of desire in his heart to see them be successful. What that looks like is going to be different, which is when y'all got to work together on this conversation. You can't, again, we're back here to ask. You can't count down until they're out of his life because they're not going to be. They're never going to be out of his life.

But she, again, is circling back to making this a math problem. How can he see that this money he's given to his child is hurting our financial situation? This is not a math problem. Right? Yeah. So you signed up, Amber, with a man who has kids. And so he's not going to quit having kids. They're there.

Those kids are always going to be there. Doesn't mean he always has to give them money right but they're always going to be there and there's always a potential that he that that father is going to want to help his children that are not your children and that will always affect your financial peace and you signed up for that trip kiddo that's exactly right i wrote the note i just scratched out is you married him right yeah you got seven kids between the two of you but having said that on the technical aspect of this, I would not be sending child support to my ex-wife that I'm not legally required to send. Correct.

I would be having a grown-up adult conversation with my grown-up adult child. Well, she's not getting the 20-year-old's not seeing the money anyway. Ex is putting in her pocket. Well, if that's happening, that's a whole... Well, you can tell that the 20-year-old doesn't live there anymore. That's a whole other situation. You think she's following it off to that 20-year-old's not seeing the money anyway. Ex is putting it in her pocket. Well, if that's happening, that's a whole... Well, you can tell. The 20-year-old doesn't live there anymore. That's a whole other situation. You think she's falling it off to that 20-year-old?

She's not. Yeah. So, yeah, I don't know about that. So, in that sense, I'm with Amber. Absolutely. You know. If he's still sending money to his ex-wife... That needs to stop.

...with a wink and a nod, that stops immediately. Yeah, that needs to stop. That needs to stop the day you're not obligated. Now, the fact that he may want to and actually should help his 20 year old i don't know what the 20 year old's doing i don't know what the situation is right uh she's out of the house she's out of college we know that from this call from this according to the email anyway but i want to go back to her uh her pronouns here how do i make him see that he he is hurting our stuff yeah that's bad that means our needs to sit down and have an hour conversation and um this starts with amber pulling him aside outside of a a fight or argument

or a check writing day and this is over a meal or over a date this is when y'all go separate yeah and say what's the plan here and And that's... Are you going to... Do you... No, this is... How do I make him see he is literally taking away from our financial peace by continuing to support the oldest one? Right. Wrong.

Exactly. That's just... That has bad spirit all over it, kiddo. That's right. And that's pronoun-based bad spirit. And so, you know know you signed up for this he's not gonna he's not gonna quit loving his children right he might quit and if he and if you want him to you're gonna have a problem yeah yeah and if amber pits the four kids they have

together against his three existing that is that's that's awful that's that's unethical it's it's not a um he's the dad of all seven of those kids. And he needs to be present and active in the lives of all seven of those kids to some degree. Right? That doesn't mean he's got to send them all money. But it's not, hey, these are our four kids and those are y'all's three kids. No, those are all seven of his kids. You don't get to slice those over to the side and hope they go away.

Because they're not going away. If he's any man of any character, they're not going away. Right. Right? He'll be their dad forever. Right. And it does sound like, Amber, that you've... Sounds like Amber's been counting down the days until these two are out of their lives.

You've put a big machete right between the two here. Like, you know, crashing down. So, yeah, that's... They're a part of your life. Yep. You need to embrace that he needs you know so the way the conversation should go is she sits down with him and says something like i think you should be there for your kids and i i wouldn't want to be married to a man that wasn't

there for his kids and uh but sending your ex-wife more money than you're supposed to legally is not on that list. That's right. And so we may need to help the 20-year-old, and we're going to always be there without being enablers for all seven of these kids to the extent we can be. But that does not mean we have to send the ex-wife child support that is not legally due. And now that we've got seven kids and one of them has hit the age of 20. You're stealing from my kids to give it to your kids. That's right. That's the way this sounds.

That's how I read it. And, hey, here's an even easier way to ask this question. Hey, we're going to have to deal with this seven times. We've got a 20-year-old. Let's start wrapping our head around how we're going to support. Are we going to pay for tuition? Do we have that going to support. Are we going to pay for tuition? Do we have that kind of money? Are we going to pay for rent?

Do we have that kind of money? Let's go ahead and have those conversations now because they're going to come seven more times. Yeah. Right? Do that together. Very good. Amy is in Berkeley, California. Hi, Amy.

Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Oh, hi. Thank you so much for taking my call. Sure. How can we help? So I'm a self-employed attorney, another attorney. I love it. I love it.

It's the lawyer theme hour on The Ramsey Show. I'm a single mom of two kids. We've kind of outgrown our house in Berkeley, as you may know, with housing marketing. The northern Bay Area is kind of crazy. Yeah, always has been. It's really expensive to move up. Always has been. So I prepared it for sale since last November, and the goal was to move to a lower-cost area where we have some family, either Houston or Florida.

I've gotten a little stuck and not been able to actually list it for sale, but I need to make a decision about that or else selling two investment properties that I have. Why are you stuck? What are you stuck on? You know, I think I'm tied to the house in some respects um i in 2009 with the recession then i um went through um an almost foreclosure uh i fought against my lender in order to keep the house and um was able to um you know you're going to make a bunch of money on it when you sell it? Yes, I will.

Are you stuck psychologically, emotionally? Psychologically, yeah. I think it has something to do with the move. I think, yeah, it's psychologically or emotionally. I think you need to decide whether you want to have this adventure or not. And if you're going to have the adventure, everything needs to be sold and you need to go have the adventure. Move to Texas, move to Florida, start over. You're obviously a really smart, really tough, big old pile of money in your pocket.

Brilliant woman, yeah. Go for it. I'm for the adventure. I am too. I like the adventure. Don't leave breadcrumbs back to the cave, though. Sell everything. And if you've got a psychological attachment

to this house, it's got to go. You and your family come first. Our scripture of the day, Isaiah 66.9, I will not cause pain without allowing something new to be born, says the Lord. John Wooden says, things work out best for those who make the best of how things work out. Travis is with us in Buffalo. Hi, Travis.

Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Hi, Dr. John. How are you guys doing? Great. How can we help? Okay. So, well, me and my girlfriend have been going out for two and a half years and we're living together and, well, when it comes to money, we're kind of, she kind of does her thing

and I kind of do my thing on, like like I follow you guys on your steps and everything and like my question is like how do I like not get her like to tell her to come on jump on board but like to understand like what I'm doing what are you doing um I'm pretty much I'm doing. What are you doing? I'm pretty much, I'm on baby step number two. No, I was being a little bit facetious. What's your future with this woman? I plan on marrying her in the next probably a year or so. Does she plan on being married to you back?

Um, we have talked about it. I mean, that is definitely one of our futures goals. Like we also talked about kids and all that. So like we do plan on having a future together and all that, and it's, like, to keep with my steps and everything else like that, I want her to understand, like, how I deal with that. So does she not like it or she doesn't agree with it? Like, she kind of does her own way of things. Like, like if she needs something, she'll go get it herself. And like, I've kind of been like on the front of, I don't know exactly if we should start

working together or as like a team before marriage like combining income and all that or anything like that how old are you i'm 25 how old is she she's 25 as well okay all right the problem you're having is it's hard to be sort of married. Yeah. It's like being sort of pregnant. And you're trying to act like you're married in some ways and not act like you're married in other ways, and it's not working because it doesn't work. And so we see this all the time in couples that are shacked up. They have a very, very difficult time because it's it's it's legally and relationally uh unwise

for you to combine everything but and yet you're trying to act like you're married which would indicate that you would combine everything and so i don't really know how to advise you well on this yeah um you know unless you just decided, we're going to live in two separate places and date, and we're going to start talking about the value systems that we have, about saving money, about spending money, about debt, about our future and what it would look like if we were to combine our households, and if we were to get married, how are we going to make them one and on the same page? And you can try that while you're living together, but it's going to be very difficult, as you've already discovered. And so, you know, I think you can, you know, that's probably the first step, actually, is you say, look, we cannot operate our lives for 40 years, 50 years going forward the way they're operating now on two separate pages, on two separate planes.

This is not a recipe for success. If we're going to have a future together, we're going to have to start figuring out how we're going to put our life together and what it's going to look like. And the wedding ceremony is not the joining it up. It's the life that you build intertwined with one another. Does that make sense? Yeah. In other words, you don't have to convince her of anything except that that not being on the same

page is a deal breaker because dude okay it's a deal breaker it's the number one cause of divorce yeah like for me it was just i felt like, I'm not meaning as in like joint income. It was like, because I was in, like, for me, it was, I was spending so much because we did the separation for a while and made that, try to make it work. But then I was like, for me, I was financially spending too much on travel and food expenses and stuff like that. Yeah, you're missing what we're saying. You're trying to make this a math problem, brother, and this is not a math problem. This is a unity problem. Yeah, this is the two of you don't see the future the same.

Correct. And therefore, the future is not going to be together until you can see the future the same. And so we need to have a conversation that sounds like, if we're going to move forward in this relationship and move towards marriage, then we're going to have to start talking about the four things that affect marriages, money, religion, in-laws, and kids. And if you can be in agreement on those four things in your pre-marriage state in pre-marriage counseling engagement period those kinds of things you can come into agreement

how you don't have to have kids but you just gotta say i don't want six kids oh i want 10 well we got a problem i think kids ought to be able to make up all their own decisions from the time they're three on. I don't. I think they ought to do what I say. Well, that's going to be a problem. I think my mother ought to be able to come over here and tell us what to do. Well, I think that's a problem. In-laws, kids, problems, money.

I think I ought to be able to spend whatever I want to spend no matter what. As long as I make money, it'll be my money, and you make money, and you take care of the rest of the house. Well, I don't think that's how we're going to do it. Problem. So you need to be in agreement on religion. I don't think there's a God. I'm sure there's a God, and I think people that don't think there's a God's an idiot. Well, then that's a problem.

And so, you know, you need to be in agreement on marriage, money, in-laws, and kids, and your pre-marriage state. Otherwise, you don't have a candidate for marriage. You've had a fun roommate and maybe a good compadre for the last two years, but you don't have someone to build an entire future with together. I think you've got to go sit down and say, if it worked out perfectly, what would we want this to look like and reverse engineer it? Right now it sounds like, brother, you are just stumbling and tripping and I think I'll do this and I think we're going to do this, but I'd like to do that.

Even your verbal pattern is very uncertain, Travis. Yeah. It's like you have no certainty about where you're headed and so you need to sit down and go we're gonna if we're gonna move forward in this or you could just languish in this you can choose that but you're you're asking us how to get you know get on the same page and it's lay out what the page looks like on all of these things and go you know we need to start talking through these things if we're going to move forward it's not just can we share the mustard you know be on my t-shirt yeah marriage can we share the money share the mustard because you know if you got two things a mustard that's what you have with a roommate you got two mustard

that's my mustard your mustard yes and right there in the door of the refrigerator and don't touch my mustard i got you remember college yeah so that's dave's mustard don't mess with dave's mustard hey so i know you should probably be asking me this question, but you've done this for way longer than me. So I came into marriage almost two decades ago with a very clear list of the things I wanted, values I thought were deal breakers for me things that were i was really firm on here's what i think about kids and probably the most recurring theme over the last

two decades is i was wrong right i thought i wanted this many kids and i thought as long as you're in agreement that's okay all along i don't care that we're going to solve you could get married saying i want 10 kids and five years later the two of you have traveled the world and go in agreement that's okay all along i don't care that we're going to solve you could get married saying i want 10 kids and five years later the two of you have traveled the world and go i think the two of us are looking at each other going we want a chihuahua or you have kid one and you're like i'm out i'm out tap out that one right there that did it that second one that did it for sure the key is we're going to make these decisions together yeah not ours and yours and mine. It's ours. But you can't come in and go, you know, you get married going, I want 10 kids.

And then you go, I'll change my mind unilaterally without discussing this with the other person. Yeah, it's not a showdown. That's right. That puts this hour of The Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Hey, it's Kelly, associate producer and phone screener

for The Ramsey Show. If you would like to do your debt-free screen live on the show, make sure you visit theramseyshow.com and register. We would love for you to come to Nashville and tell Dave your story.