The Ramsey Show - App - My Husband Used Our Emergency Fund for Drug Money (Hour 3)

Episode Date: July 9, 2020

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🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. Dr. John Deloney is my co-host today here on The Dave Ramsey Show. Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. James is with us in Wisconsin. Hi, James. Welcome to The Dave Ramsey Show.

Thank you, sir. It's a great pleasure to be able to speak with the both of you. You too, sir. How can we help? So I just graduated college. My wife and I just graduated college this May, and we have paid our way through college with cash, and we have a little over $70,000 saved up. Wow! What? Way to go! I have great summer jobs. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Wow!

Yeah, I mean, it's great. Um, but I got into a job, I'm in the medical device industry. Um, I'm working on a hundred percent commission and I'm having a really hard time spiritually, um, mentally. Um, I mean, in every category to fund these doctors and to get these doctors taking them out to dinner and doing all these things because I'm so used to eating peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and now I'm spending, you know, $250 on a dinner. Out of your own pocket? Right now, out of my own pocket. Everything is funded by me, but on the upside is I get a very high commission rate on all the surgical devices that we sell. So what does the typical guy in your position make the first year?

It's tough, but the average guy is $118,000. Year one? Yes, sir. Yep. But the only thing is that I'm 22 years old and a lot of the guys who get into medical device are in their 30s, 30s and 40s, even because medical device is the top echelon of medical sales. And I happen to get in at 22 years old. So it's also tough because I don't have that OR experience and I'm in with these doctors. I mean, I was a poli-sci major. I don't know anything about human anatomy. So I guess my question is, how do I handle these expenses without, I mean, just being able to stay mentally fit and spiritually fit during this time where, yeah.

You've been a tightwad, and you've worked your tail off and piled up this cash, and it's hard to let it go. Yeah, and the smear, I just want to say one last thing. The smear, my wife, she's working, and her job has pretty much been paying for everything. She only makes about $800 every two weeks. When do you anticipate getting your first check? I will not get my first check until August 1st for the surgeries that I did in June.

Okay. What will it be? It'll be about $400. That's not encouraging. I only did one surgery, but I just did a $5,000 surgery a couple days ago. And that will pay in September? Yes, sir. Okay, good.

Okay, so you're going to start making some money in September. This is July, and you have $70,000 cash in the bank. Yep. So the reality is mathematically you're fine. If you burn through $5, bucks a month for the next two months you have used you now have sixty thousand dollars and then you start making five thousand plus a month right uh yes sir okay so you're you see what i'm saying there's no reason to even have a slight quiver from the math. So what we're dealing with more than anything else is the emotion.

Is that what you're saying? Yes, sir, and more of if I end up getting pushed out of this industry because age is a big thing with these doctors, and they want reps who have been in thousands of surgeries to aid them in the process. And I can do well with relationships, but I lack that OR experience. Okay, so if you lose the job, okay, because you're not effective, if you're effective and you're making sales, you're not going to lose the job. Agreed?

Yes, sir. Okay. And if you show up to surgery know what you're doing so well i think i've got a perfect storm of collision in your brain going on here's what i hear this is really hard and i'm not making any money right now and it's draining down my bank account that i worked so hard to build up and i just got married and we're broke and i heard another and i am having to go do 250 dinners for to woo these doctors and in my day-to-day life i would never spend money like that that's not where contentment's found that's not where my heart is but the cost of doing business is pushing

me outside of my comfort zone i hate how materialistic they all are there it is okay all right so you're gonna have to adjust your brain if you're going to be successful at this and say it's the cost of doing business emotionally to work with materialistic doctors. You're going to buy some really nice bottles of wine, dude. And that's the cost of getting a doc that does, you know, that does $100,000 worth a year worth of business with you. And it costs you a $300 costs you a 300 bottle of wine ever so often uh oh well uh and you know that that's just how that works and they're not necessarily grateful for it either that's the other thing but uh uh it's not like they go wow thank you so much

they don't do that and so um so the other thing you're gonna have to get used to is this idea that I think you despise your youth more than they do. And so I think you're doing a decent job. You've got some money on the books. You've got stuff in the pipeline. And you're right. This is the upper echelon. There's some serious bank to make here. The device guys I know make $300.

We have guys making $300. 300 yeah and so 118 year one sounded about right to me and then but you've got a very difficult job you're having to learn the human anatomy you're having to overcome uh your baby face and and you're and it's difficult for you to write these checks right now. Now, I will tell you this. I think when you're making $15,000 or $20,000 a month, it's going to be easier to spend this on these docs. Emotionally. Yes, sir. It's just like, you know, in order to drive my car to work, I have to spend the money to put gas in it.

And that's what this is. You're just putting gas in the car. That's all you're doing so i i think you're going to be okay but you just gotta you gotta kind of stack these things up and work your way through uh i i want to say this it's a really good job and you thought it was going to be easier than it is there you go and also at 22 if you can learn the lesson if you can learn this discipline to not spend your energy trying to get in the thoughts and hearts of other people's heads you don't know what's in their hearts

and you don't know they're this and they're thinking this and they're egotistical let that stuff go that's their heads man you do your job you take care of your heart

and you spend what you need to do to do this job or walk away from the job but don't spend the energy on somebody else's character somebody else's heart and over four or five years you might develop a deep relationship with them and drag them away from some of that's exactly right but but at the start right now you're just a little kid and you just got to get the job done man you're scratching the claw and i'm proud of you oh what a stud james you got it you got a

real opportunity here but it's hard, really hard. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Folks, I love telling you about well-made, well-thought-out products. Today, I'm talking about Grip6 belts. I don't know about you, but I'm not a fan of traditional belts. They never fit right, and they're uncomfortable. Grip6 belts are unique. Owner BJ designed a truly modern, minimalist belt made of high-quality materials with no holes, no flap, and no bulk.

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life and your money tis a free call 888-825-5225. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today on the show. John is in Texas. Hi, John. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, Dr. D and Dave. How are you guys doing? Great.

How can we help? Well, I'll try to keep it brief. 31 years old, baby step four. They've been listening to you since 2016. Going through this journey, I've paid off all my debt in 18 months and full emergency fund and everything like that. But I just feel like I have something missing in my life. And it's something that I think might be the spirituality side of everything that you teach.

I was raised by non-practicing Muslims, and so I never really had any kind of religion or any kind of spirituality in my life. And it's something that's kind of getting bigger and bigger inside of me, and I don't know if it's that for sure, but I know that I definitely have something missing in my life. So I kind of just wanted to call in and um ask uh uncle dave and uncle well i was pretty much the same way when i was a little bit younger than you about 24 and um i read a quote years later that kind of explained it um uh pascal said in in every man, there is a God shaped hole.

And sometimes we try to throw things in that hole. People do it with drugs and they get become drug addicts. People do it with material things and they become materialistic. People do it with pornography and they become addicted to that, and so on, right? People try everything in the world to fill the hole that really only has one thing that fits in it properly, and that is the spiritual walk. It is God. And that made sense to me when I heard it, and I was sitting in a seat similar to the one you're sitting in right now.

You see what I'm saying? Yes, sir. So it's natural, in other other words to kind of have this everything's going along it seems like i'm doing well but there still feels like this something's missing that's a fairly natural thing it's the way that's the way we're designed and that's what i discovered anyway i was i was in my um mid-20s early 20s, when I discovered that. You're a touch older than I was at that time. So in the same situation, I didn't grow up in a Muslim, non-practicing Muslim home,

but we weren't church people, so to speak. And so good people, nothing wrong with the morals or anything like that. That's not the point. But the point was this whole discussion wasn't something that ever came up so um i i did what you're doing and i kind of went on a quest and i started trying to learn about it and i tried to find people that that uh weren't kooky that actually made sense when they were talking about spiritual things and some of them are kookier than crud i'll'll just tell you. But I found, you know, some people that were fairly level-headed and would walk me through it, and I became introduced to the Bible, and I started reading that, and I started going to a non-kooky church.

There are seven of those across the country. Seven. And warning you ahead of time, I mean because i i have discovered in 40 or year 40 years of doing this stuff that there's nothing kookier than a kooky christian so um but uh but yeah you know so i i would tell you to try to poke around do you have any good friends that you feel like in your circle that are uh that could maybe give you recommendations. Maybe they're not up to coaching you on this subject, but they could say, hey, I'll hook you up with this guy. This pastor over here I know is a really good guy, and he can answer some questions for you. Do you know anybody like that?

I do. I just feel like at the same time, I'm kind of resisting it. It's almost like I feel like I'm missing it in my life, but I'm also afraid because I'm afraid if I, for example, turn to Christianity, which is actually the most I know about any religion, it's just because of listening through you, that I would maybe be judged by, you know, like family. Well, you would be. You would be. I don't think there's any question about that. And that's not even a – I mean, it's accelerated.

I mean, it's more prominent because of your family's heritage. But as Dave mentioned, Christians deal with that too, right? But Christians feel that too when they – I mean, if you go from a Catholic church to a Baptist church, or I'm going to go to a different Baptist church on the street, that's just whenever you decide to really go on a journey to find out who you are and why you're disconnected, people around you don't understand that. There's always going to be someone that goes, well, that's not the way. That's not the way.

And, well, this is my journey this is my walk and so um i mean some of my old beer drinking buddies that i used to raise hell with didn't understand you know uh different religion right but but they didn't understand they're like what what happened to you man well you're no fun anymore man i'm like yeah i'm more fun but in a different way that's right so i got my crap together finally so um but your fear john as you're standing over the precipice when you're looking over the edge of a cliff and you know if i take this step there's a chance that everything that i know is different it's normal to be scared of that yeah um that's that's what bravery is. Bravery is not going to battle when you know the outcome.

It's knowing that I'm scared, I'm going to go do it anyway. You know, I think once you sit down and maybe write out four or five things that you need the answer to, that doesn't mean you necessarily start wearing around a shirt that says I'm a Baptist or something. You're just starting to get some answers and uh one of them might be you know how to handle uh you know some negative input from from people in your past um and i think that's pretty standard anytime anyone makes any kind of shift um i mean i've known people that just changed denominations

and because their whole social structure was tied up in their denomination and everything else, and people are like, they think they're the only ones going to heaven is that particular denomination. And then, you know, they rule you out, you know. And so I've known that to happen. And so, you know, you've got to, they would have to ask the same question is my point. And so, but I don't think there's any requirement that because you asked someone five or six questions over coffee three times that all of a sudden you got sucked into something. You know, I don't think there's a requirement of that.

If you'll gather more information, you'll start to see things more clearly and more than it than we can give you on run radio call truthfully and john can i burst your bubble before we hang up yes sir avoiding this is not going to make it go away that hole doesn't go away by by running from it and i've been avoiding it i know i know you have i can hear it in you i'm just telling you that feeling you feel that emptiness that disconnect you're afraid if you step over into the tractor beam, it's going to suck you in. You know, like you're going to lose control or something. And you never, our faith anyway, you never lose your choice. You've always got a choice.

You get to decide. There's no mind-sucking amoeba that takes your brain out, and then you're not allowed to make choices anymore. You still will make the choice all the way along the rest of your life, no matter what. That doesn't stop at any point. So you don't have to be afraid about this getting out of control, so to speak. If it gets out of control, it's because you chose to take steps and you no one made you do anything along that way so if i were you i'd talk to one of your buddies that's got a real good pastor

what city in texas are you in dallas okay great very cool there's a church on every 11th foot right you know where that is. Yeah, there's tons of great places around there, and we've got lots of friends there that we could hook you up to if you need to, too. But I would just find somebody and continue the journey, continue asking questions, because John's right. This has been awakened inside of you, and until you get the questions answered, it's going to scratch and claw at your heart and that's a good thing go be brave yeah i'm proud of you if you want to talk some more

call me back anytime this is the dave ramsey show We'll be right back. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage, Lance and Kayla are with us. Hey, guys, how are you? Good, how are you? Welcome, welcome. Where do you guys live? Currently, we're in Raleigh, North Carolina, but we're originally from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Okay. Well, welcome to Nashville and all the way over here to do a debt-free screen.

Yes, sir. How much did you pay off? Just over $27,000. Very good. How long did this take? 19 months. Good. And your range of income during that time?

So we started technically around $36,000 and went up to about $80,000, but we have a little bit more to say about that in our story. Okay. All right. What kind of debt was the 27? Our honeymoon, a car, a HELOC, student loans. How long have you all been married? Five years. Five years. So what happened 19 months ago? What's the story on this?

So Lance was working in Pittsburgh, and I was back in grad school and he was working for a university, which got me the opportunity to go to school kind of debt free. But along with that, we had to pay taxes on the tuition, which cut his paycheck in half. And we didn't know about that whenever it happened. So it was instead of 36, it was about $18,000 that he was really bringing home. And so I got a job nannying. And while I would walk her around, I was listening to The Minimalists with Joshua Fields Milburn and Ryan Nicodemus. And they kept talking about Dave Ramsey and how they were out of debt. And we were living really frugally at that point, but we still had some debt and I wanted to get rid of it. And I just said, that's just another podcast you're listening to.

He wasn't on board yet. It's just another podcast. Here we go. It's another one. Yeah. She's crazy. She won't stop talking about it. Baby's napping.

You're just listening to podcasts now. But he got a job offer in Raleigh in November of 2017, and they wanted him to start in January of 2018, and I still had to do my student teaching. And so I stayed in Pennsylvania. He moved to North Carolina. We paid for that entire move in cash. Wow. We took FPU in October of 2017 to kind of start that ball. And got down here. We were managing a mortgage and an apartment. And we finally sold the house.

I was still in Pittsburgh. He was up here, or in Raleigh. Right. You lived with your parents. I lived with my parents. That was a fun five months. I can see the fun written all over your face. It just looks like fun. It was fun for me. I mean, I was hours away. So I had to pay for my last semester of grad school. But then when I moved

down to Raleigh in May of 2018, we found out we were expecting, so we had to go into stork mode. And so we paused until January of 2019 when Morgan was born, and we paid for all of his bills in cash and for the hospital and everything. And then we got gazelle intents right after that, and we were debt-free by the end of 2019. Wow. So it all kind of had to get lined up first.

Oh, yes. It was a long process. The careers lined up and the housing lined up and then go. And 19 months, boom. And it was all a God thing. I mean, every step of the way, God was with us. So are you teaching now? Yes.

And Ryan, what do you do? Or Lance, what do you do? I'm an IT specialist. Okay. All right. Very cool. And Ryan, what do you do? Or Lance, what do you do? I'm sorry. I'm an IT specialist. Okay. All right. Very cool. And doing better than 36 now. Yes. Good.

Excellent. Good. Minus taxes. Sure. I don't hurt. Yeah, that free degree wasn't so free, was it? No. It sounded like a good idea at the time, but it got me to my job now because my undergrad

was in a different field entirely. So now I'm teaching elementary. And I was able to coordinate FPU while I was in Pittsburgh and he was in Raleigh. Wow. And now your parents are on the road. And now my parents are debt free. Right. Very good.

I got them involved. Everybody's in. Yep. So what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is? You did it. Lots of communication. FPU was huge yeah going through that yeah we actually for me because i was so i mean just another podcast so once a week

or two into fpu i was like this is this is for real this is definitely a big thing yeah and so we actually just took it again this past january before the quarantine hit and um at that point we were debt free and so it was really helpful from the other side. Right. And we were able to motivate the people who were still in debt, but there weren't that many people in debt. We were all in like baby step three, three B.

So what do you tell knuckleheaded brick headed men who have brilliant wives who stumble on a podcast, how to soften and change their hearts? Me or her i'm talking well played dude directly at you um i don't i mean listen to your wife i mean it's not that hard i mean just give it a shot it's there's nothing wrong with it you go for it yeah it's nothing it's not hurt you. It doesn't make you any less. Yeah, you're not going to go any farther.

I never had anybody pissed off at me because I got them out of debt. They get pissed off at me about everything else, but not that. That doesn't usually get people mad. Way to go, you guys. Very proud of you. Who were your biggest cheerleaders? I think our parents. Your parents have always been debt-free.

I was the one who brought him into debt. I needed a credit card to get my credit score up. I never had a credit card until I met her. Oh, okay. But yeah, our parents were huge motivators. Very good. Very good. Well, congratulations, you guys. We are very, very proud of you. Thanks for leading the class, too. Changes everything. Very well done. So did you bring Morgan, or is he going to get in the shot? Hopefully.

How old is Morgan? Morgan is a year and a half. Oh, he's beautiful. Thank you. Say hi. Yeah, very good. Life is good. We got a copy of Chris Hogan's book for you, Everyday Millionaires. That's the next chapter in your story for sure.

Lance and Kayla and Morgan, Raleigh, North Carolina, $27,000 paid off in 19 months, 36 to 80 income. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free. We're debt-free. Yeah. This is how it's done right here. Debt free! Yeah!

This is how it's done right here. Wow. So how often in higher ed do you see people taking a job he was underpaid, making 36, because his wife could get free tuition. And then he found out the free tuition was so expensive that the taxes on it alone were more expensive than tuition in other places. Yeah, my experience is, I won't say all my colleagues. Some of my colleagues were so smart that we figured out some really remarkable ways to get things done in alternative ways that ended up costing us about as much as if we'd just gone straight through it

yeah just we we do a lot of um it's an old deon sanders punt return right where he would run 150 yards laterally and make 32 yards down the field right it's a lot of energy just to get right over there so yeah um but yeah that happens it sneaks up on you yeah that's um well it's just not a calculation that most people know to do right and you get that first check-in and you're like what it just goes back to there's so few ways around just slogging through it doing the hard everyday work and in their case it worked out at the end but it just it didn't it cost more than they thought that's what it came down to and so they had to push their way through it but they managed to get through done beautiful baby life

set two great careers here we go game on game on game on very well done you guys the baby will never know and this guy knows to listen to his wife now. And that's two big, big wins, man. Well, most of those podcasts. Most of the... Some of those podcasts. That's right. That's right. How many households across the country the dinner starts with?

Honey, I was listening to a podcast. I know when I say that, that my wife her head just goes oh gosh she just looks at the table not again here we go what not again i thought i told you to stop that that's exactly what i told you to quit that's right i thought you said you were going to my every once in a while a podcast will change the family tree so well done yeah now the uh if you if you change your family tree we just show you how there you go good stuff this is the dave ramsey show You change your family tree. We just show right back. Our scripture of the day, Ephesians 5, 8, and 9. For at one time you were darkness, but now you are light in the Lord.

Walk as children of light, for the fruit of light is found in all that is good and right and true. Success is achieved by developing our strengths, not by eliminating our weaknesses, Marilyn von Zandt said. Open phones at 888-825-5225. My co-host is Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, this hour. And Angela is in Ohio. Hi, Angela. Your question for Dr. John and me. Hi. Thank you so. Your question for Dr. John and me. Hi.

Thank you so much for taking my call. I am a huge fan of everything Dave Ramsey. Oh, my gosh. I'm super nervous. That's okay. We've never lost a patient. Let's be clear. Okay, good.

So I'm calling because about three and a half weeks ago, my husband confessed to me that he has a prescription drug addiction. I had no idea. I was completely blindsided. So that very day we found a rehab facility. He's been there since he's coming home next week. But in the meantime, I found out he had spent, we had an emergency fund that saved of $30,000. He cleaned it out. He took as much liquid as he could get, and he put himself into credit debt of about $70,000 that I'm aware of, just via cash advances. So at this point, I'm just trying to figure out,

and he's going to clean up his own mess, of course, but I'm trying to be supportive. Do we go with Chapter 13 bankruptcy? Do we consolidate? Do we pay things off? Some of it's in collections. There's about 10 credit cards I found. Some of it's in collections. There's about 10 credit cards I found. Some of it's just four to six months late. So it's kind of a mess right now.

So I'm just looking for some guidance. Tough month. Very. Yeah, you're going to be like the rest of us, 2020. You don't want to see it again. Yep. Yep, exactly. So are you working outside the home? I am. I'm in education. What do you make?

$71,000. What does he make? He makes $95,000. So we have $160,000 income to clean up $70,000 worth of debt. Correct. So that's really not a problem. Correct. It doesn't sound like one i guess because it's going to collections and it's past due and we don't have any liquid i'm kind of there's nothing they're scared of collectors you know what do you what do you do about that they're

not they're not going to do anything by the time you can pay them back so i mean if you start paying you know you start talking about put this is in 12 months, which it should be fairly easily. The biggest problem is you're just trying to, you got knocked on your back. I mean, so your whole world changed. And so you're trying to get your head around. If you had been gradually kind of knew this was there and but you didn't know we had a problem and you didn't know you had a financial problem and those are all new things right i thought we had a fully funded emergency fund i thought we were on baby step six and i had

no idea and i and i am in charge of the money you know and i he just but you know the addiction makes you sneaky oh makes you lie and then if and deceit deceitful exactly all addicts are liars so do you have somebody in your life that you can sit with that will walk alongside you or a group that's going to walk alongside you because you're going to have to do a couple of things you have to mourn the that i learned this phrase when i joined this team you're going to have to mourn the financial infidelity. You're going to have to mourn the stability that you knew and the loss of trust there, right? As your husband has to rebuild that and you're going to have to walk alongside your husband in this journey together. But you're also going to have to learn to retrust you because you trusted him. You trusted your sense of,

of understanding what's going on in your home. You know, the sense of money and what I often feel here, people experience as they walk through this is they understand they got to learn how to retrust their husband. They got to re learn to re clamp the financial mess. Got to do. They forget to learn to retrust themselves.

And that's ends up being the most painful violation. So do you have people that you can walk with? I have a lot. Yeah, I have an amazing group of friends and family. I mean, I am so blessed to have everybody in my life. They have come forward and helped me in ways I could never have imagined. So, yes, I have a lot of helpers. Thank God for that.

So you had a hundred thousand dollar change in position from 30 plus to 70 minus yes and yes your your guy that you thought was solid isn't right and so there's a lot to be sad about. Very much. Very much. And mad about. And not to be stay sad or stay mad. But, I mean, those are just real emotions. I just want to say out loud, normal human beings have emotions like that in this kind of crap.

And if you don't feel it, and if you shove them down and try to get to problem solving, what's that, Dave? They have a high rate of resurrection. Or in counseling, we call them leakage. They will find a way out. You can deal with them, or they will make their way out all over your marriage. You have all the emotions, as strong as they come, and ups and downs. And overall, I would say it's just confusing. I'm just confused.

It is. You know, so much. It's disorienting. What you can do is you can lay out some very clear principles with his coaches and counselors that say, you know, you have to re-earn trust by being worthy of trust, trustworthy, not not falling off the wagon again, not lying, not manipulating, not doing drugs. And so we're going to have a real clear understanding of what winning looks like there. And then we're going to have a real careful mathematical formula that says we're going to be on a budget and we're going to take $70,000 in debt, making $160,000. And so we're going to clean that up.

You know, this is $7,000 a month. Yes. And when you just make your list of smallest to largest, plus or minus a barking dog that you want to get rid of on the list, right? But, you know, you just start knocking it out $7,000. They're not going to bark much. Right. And you don't think bankruptcy is the way to go?

No, you're not bankrupt you're not bankrupt you make 160 you need to pay 70 yeah and you see the little perspective from you so thank you you're not even close to bankrupt you're scared you're mad you're confused and you're and you're pissed off and all of those things are right but you're not bankrupt in six months from now you're going to be super pissed off because you're going to have want this to be over and he's going to have been working his steps and he's going to be going to his group and he is going to have rededicated himself to his marriage and you and you are still going to have the broom and the dust playing clean in this crap up and it's nothing wrong it's gonna suck

and that's why you've got that's what what we say, the people in your life. If he stays clean and does his steps for the next year and you work your Dave Ramsey system and you bust through this debt in one year, 12 months from today, you're going to have your life back. I pray. I pray that's exactly what happens. Angela, it's somewhat up to him. It's somewhat up to him. It's somewhat up to him. I mean, he's got to heal.

He's got to keep walking the healing. But if you can keep the emotions dialed and know that they're there, but also stay on a path mathematically, this is very doable in 12 months mathematically. Okay. I feel better. Thank you. I had a feeling that's what you were going to say, but I just feel like I needed to call and hear you say it yourself. Yeah, if you told me you make $25,000 a year, you might be bankrupt. Yeah, right. But you're not. Right. So the bad news is you got a hole. The good news is you got a really nice big shovel. Yeah, and we can do it. Yeah,

you can do it. I'm very hopeful. I really am. Are you guys in Ramsey Plus? No. Okay, I'm going to pay for it. Well, Ramsey Plus is all of the stuff together. It's EveryDollar. It's Financial Peace University. It's all the tools under one heading, and I'm going to give you a one-year membership to walk with you guys

while you're walking your year out, okay? Thank you so much. Now jump in. Use the EveryDollar budget. Let him walk with you on while you're walking your year out, okay? Thank you so much. Now jump in. Use the EveryDollarBudget. Let him walk with you on the EveryDollarBudget. He needs to participate and carry the emotional weight of these financial decisions. You don't need to be his mommy for the next 12 months financially. Yep, that's hard because I'm the leader.

I am the control freak. Yeah, but that'll help you trust him, and it'll help him uh he can demonstrate it real time yeah it's it's his payback he carries emotionally and and financially carries the weight of this because it's his mess it's a way he can bring restoration back yeah that's what i'm looking for that's exactly right good stuff hey thank you for the call. We appreciate you joining us. John, good work. It puts us to the hour of the Dave Ramsey Show and the books. We'll be back with you before you know it.

In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. This is James Childs, producer of The Dave Ramsey Show. You can listen to Dave, Rachel Cruz, Chris Hogan, or the rest of the Ramsey Network anywhere with the Ramsey Network app on your smartphone. Catch all of our full shows, browse by topic, or send clips to your friends. Head to the App Store and download the Ramsey Network app today.