The Ramsey Show - App - My Husband’s Mental Health Issues Are Straining Our Marriage (Hour 2)

Episode Date: December 10, 2021

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I'm Hi, from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Real Studio, this is The Ramsey Show. It's where America hangs out to have a conversation about life. I'm Ken Coleman, joined by my colleague, Dr. John Deloney. We are here for you this hour. It is a free phone call to jump in. 888-825-5225.

What do you want to talk about? What do you need to talk about? Feeling a little bit alone? Feeling like maybe there's not much hope at all? John and I are here to encourage and equip you. We'd love to hear from you today. 888-825-5225. The phone lines are open. Caitlin is going to

start us off this hour in Knoxville, Tennessee. Kaitlyn, how can we help? Hi, Cain. Hi, John. Thank you so much for taking my call. So I just moved here this year from California. I'm a single mom with two kids. When I moved here, I was able to get a job in the same field that I was working in in California, which was in human services.

And when I got to this job, I was really excited about it. And it turned out to be a pretty toxic environment. The management was not great. The way that they did things was a lot different than what I was used to. Um, and I felt like instead of being able to treat people as people and as humans and families, they kind of were treating them as just numbers. And that wasn't something that I could kind of do. And as I kept going through, um, it just got got worse and worse so I ended up quitting the job and now I am just doing like delivery driving for DoorDash and Instacart and those things but

while it's paying the bills I'm also in debt and I'm trying to figure out what my next steps would be to kind of get back into, like, having a career that gives me purpose and that is going to glorify the kingdom. Okay, let's detail that out. I think you know what it is. Was this social work when you said human services? Was this social work? Was it government? Or was it nonprofit?

Yeah. Government work? It was government. mm-hmm. And let's just remove whatever you've done in the past, and let's look forward for a second. What's the kind of work that would give you that real sense of purpose, doing what you know you were born to do? Yeah, so I took your assessment, Ken,

and basically what that came out to be was everything that I thought I was wanting to do. Um, I have my bachelor's degree in psychology, which is why I'm happy that John's on the phone too. Cause I, um, have been listening to him as well as you. Um, and I just, I'm trying to figure out because I, when I was in college getting this degree, I went through a class that are basically like, oh, well, if you stop at bachelor's degree, you can kind of like be a receptionist or, you know, do all these kind of entry-level things, but you're not going to really go anywhere

unless you get like a doctorate or a PhD, you know, like higher education, which I, as a single mom, like with that, it's not really my industry. So let me focus you for a second. I know that that's a tough journey, and John can speak to that very, very specifically. But what I want to do is I want to get an understanding of what would you do if there was no debt, if you didn't have to get qualified, who would you want to counsel? Who would you want to serve? I mean, originally when I went to school, I wanted to be a marriage and family counselor. to counsel? Who would you want to serve?

I mean, originally when I went to school, I wanted to be a marriage and family counselor. But I really just want to help. I don't know, because I really I've kind of been all over the place. I've wanted to help veterans. I've wanted to help people with mental issues. I've wanted to help the homeless. Okay, great. All right, great. That's all good news. All right, here's what I want you to do. All right, John, I want you to weigh in on this because you're the actual psychologist, but from a tactical standpoint, I think you're a little bit overwhelmed by all the different

possibilities that have popped into your head on who you want to help. But is it true that you would just want to counsel people? You want to sit knee to knee with them, look at them eyeball to eyeball and listen and learn and coach them up and counsel them and take them to a place of transformation. Is that true? True. Okay. So that's the what. You're really clear and confident on the what, correct? Yeah. And you know the why, don't you? Yeah. Yeah. So the who and the how, how john i would normally say if you weren't sitting next to me and i'm deferring here because of your expertise and training but i would say this is the good old-fashioned proximity principle on the starting sentence is just let's hang out with some people right who are actually counseling veterans some of these names and the types of people and

the demographics that popped in her mind and I would suggest that she either volunteers or tries to get around some of those folks and verify who kind of pulls at her heart the most. What would you say to that? Yeah, two things. One, I've heard this throughout my entire career. I also taught in graduate programs for mental health professionals, people go back and get their PhDs and their master's degrees, I hear folks who want to be helpers.

And I've heard what you just said, I want to help this group, I want to try to help that group, I want to help that group. Where that falls inside out is people think that when I help the right group, it will be easy. It will be a job that I just go home feeling fulfilled all the time or all the management's all great. And that's simply inaccurate. Helping any group is hard and it takes your soul.

It's draining. It's challenging. It's why I go spend weekends in the woods. It's just tough. Right. And I'm not even doing like a true therapy. I'm talking on the on the stinking radio, man. Not like my buddies who are in the trenches here. So understanding that your feelings, it's just a number.

Man, some of that is the reality of working with people in these situations. The other thing I would recommend is this. You have boxed yourself into, I'm a single mom. I can't do this and that. There is some validity to you cannot sit for a licensing exam unless you have a graduate degree. That's the world we're in. So you're in a college town. You could get a job at one of the universities as a receptionist, as a secretary, as an admin, and take advantage of their free tuition program.

That's what I did for my second Ph.D. in counseling. A university paid for it because I was a university employee. Let me jump in super fast. Walmart and Target are also offering this. There you go. So, I mean, if you want to get out of a car and be safe in a store they're offering college tuition as well john's absolutely right you can do this but we got to get you out of debt as well that's right so you know i listen getting out of debt is your primary goal the psychology degree and the counseling

opportunity and the people you want to help will still be there but you must get stable first do you understand yeah because it feels overwhelming right now you go i know what i want to do but how in the world am i going to get there we're going to get there the same way everybody else did but you got to get out of debt you're already clear so now we're going to get out of debt then we get qualified then we get connected and we get started and i think spending some time with some other mental health professionals counselors who specialize spending time with them they're also going to give you some wonderful insight into the problems they're solving and there may be one or more problems or a type of people that you get more excited about helping whether it's marriage and family or vets or whatever right here's a secret that i learned. Are you ready? Yes. One of the best training programs I ever had

for working with mental health in that world was working fast food. Here's why. Yeah. You learn to talk to everybody. And you get to see people who are trying to smile through a lot of pain. You get to see people who are just joyful.

You get to interact with people. You get 10 seconds to make somebody's day a little bit brighter or a little bit worse, and I get to choose that. And so whatever work you do, whatever work you do will be in service to one day you sitting across a couch from somebody saying, how can I help? And don't minimize those experiences and interactions. Really good. Thank you for the call, Caitlin. You're going to help a lot of people. This is The Ramsey Show.

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more information on these open opportunities, text careers to 33789. Text careers to 33 789 text careers to 33 789 or if you want to learn about our other job offerings we'd love to talk with you text careers to 33 789 Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman, joined by my colleague, Dr. John Deloney. We are here for you this hour. 888-825-5225 is the phone number to jump in. That's 888-825-5225, and the phone lines are open. John, this freaked me out. Christmas is two weeks away.

I don't know where the year went. Okay? I mean, it's flying. It sounds like my dad's saying that, but it's really moving fast, right? And at Ramsey Solutions, we've been in the Christmas frame of mind for a while now. We're having a great time handing out cash as a part of our annual Christmas cash giveaway because if you haven't experienced it yet giving is the most fun you'll ever have with money every year we celebrate Christmas with our Ramsey show listeners with an awesome tradition the Ramsey Christmas cash

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week. And today is my day. Well, that's fun. How convenient, Ken. I know. They put this in front of me so I'd have to read it. I feel like you should have to read it talking about my book. But the latest book, From Paycheck to Purpose, bestseller. It's now available for just $20. You can get my career assessment along with this for free. So this is the perfect gift for somebody who's not happy in their work

or maybe they are looking forward and dreaming and they want to get some confirmation. This would be a great gift for the job hunter on your list. So this is your last week to order gifts and get in in time for Christmas. So shop our one-day deal online at RamseySolutions.com. That's RamseySolutions.com. All right, let's go to Tracy in Louisville, Kentucky. Tracy, how can we help?

Hey, thank you so much for taking my call. You bet. So my husband is a combat veteran who's been diagnosed with PTSD and schizole affective disorder. And the longer that he has been out of the service, the more difficult it is for us to communicate and be on the same page, especially when it comes to our finances. Hang on a second. Take a breath. Take a breath.

Take a breath. Take a breath. Take a breath. I'm getting a cardio workout just sitting in my car. My heart's beating so fast. Bless your heart. You're good. We're here with you.

Take your time how long have you been sitting on this diagnosis since 2016 could i say the obvious out loud it is hard to love somebody and live with somebody who's a schizoaffective disorder, right? Yeah. And I still love him. Of course you do. You love him to the end of time. But you've been through hell the last few years, haven't you?

Yeah. Yeah, it's hard. And he's contemplating divorce. Yeah. Yep. And there's probably a part of him that, deep down in in his soul thinks that your life would be better without him. Am I right? Yeah, because he's also very, he's almost taken his life twice too.

That's right. Yeah. That feeling of burdensome, of burden. I'm sorry. So, so sorry. What a mess. What's his care regimen look like? Right now, he's not on medications. We tried that route, and the VA just basically threw

pills at him, and the side effects were worse off than dealing with it without medication. He was meeting with our pastor for counseling, and our pastor is not a licensed therapist but more of like a companion. Yeah. He needs some true trauma counseling, and he's going to have to get a doctor and a psychiatrist that will walk alongside him. It's not just going to throw pills at him, but this is a tough, tough road to hoe. Is he giving up hope?

I don't think so. No, he's still here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, man. Yeah, I mean, you know this, and this isn't even why you called, but this would fall into a very limited number of situations in my world that would be a red alert situation. I'm going to call not the VA.

I'm going to get the money. I'm going to figure the finance part out, but we're going to sit with a psychiatrist or a medical doctor that we trust that somebody recommends that we'll listen to you, and we'll start small and build up the right way and get into some trauma counseling ASAP. What I want to tell you is I know folks in that situation and there is help on the other side of it. It feels like everybody's drowning on this side of it. I'm so sorry you're going through that.

Do you all handle your finances together? Are you the primary person who handles it? What's that look like? I'm actually a Ramsey preferred coach. It's more along the lines of I do the budget and include him in it. And he sees money differently than I do because of the near-death experiences that he's had, that money to him is just, it's not tied to a tangible feature, I guess would be a way of describing it. Like he doesn't view it the same way that I do or somebody with a sound mind does. It's just another thing, essentially, is the way he described it. Well, he's seen, he's got a very tangible,

he's breathed the air of there's not going to be a tomorrow. And so it's really easy to fall into since there's not going to be tomorrow, let's live it up today. Let's spend everything, right? Yeah. Yeah. And again, whenever you've got a brain, PTSD is your body responding in the present as though the trauma you experienced in the past is happening now. And what a good trauma counselor would do.

And by the way, there's a number of programs and studies. There's so many different routes these days that they didn't have five years ago, 10 years ago, 15 years ago. There's some really extraordinary stuff on the horizon. Not on the horizon, it's already here. Man, when you get your body to calm down in the present, then the future looks real. And right now the future's just not real.

It's a myth, right? And you know that, you live in that. Is he accumulating debt or just spending all the money that's coming in? Yeah, is there just a hole in the checkbook? What is it? So he's accumulating a little bit of debt. My name's not on any of it except for the house. We have our joint savings.

He's got his own credit card that he's slowly accumulating debt on. Does he know this is a problem or is there a philosophical issue here? He knows that it's a problem for me. Okay. Because I hate debt. Would he honor you enough to give away the credit card? Like when I work with folks with bipolar,

one of the things is you've got to put some roadblocks in front of you, right? I know that things get hard on your manic or when you're low, but you've got to put some roadblocks in front of you. Is know that things get hard when you're manic or when you're low, but you've got to put some roadblocks in front of you. Is he willing to do that or no? No, he's not. We've had that conversation, and he's at this time now.

Okay. So here's where things get hard, and I want to give you two pieces of wisdom here, okay? Number one, I want you to let the shame that you're a Ramsey preferred coach and you're married to someone who's struggling, let that go. You're not failing anybody, okay?

You're carrying this thing around that you should be this because you're licensed, I mean, you're certified as that. Man, you are in hell. Both of you are. And it's hard. Okay? We're walking with you.

We're not pointing our fingers at you. Okay? Will you release that shame? Just set it down? Yes, thank you. Okay. And the second thing here is, you and you alone need to go see somebody.

And I say you alone. Your husband clearly needs to go. But you can't make that. You can't force that. You can't will that. And you've a guy that's, go ahead. I am seeing our church counselor. I want you to go see a trauma therapist. You've been married to somebody with PTSD and schizo affective disorder, if that's even a true diagnosis. And, um, you need to go see somebody because you've had, whether it's secondary trauma or true trauma, you've seen it all and you need to go see somebody because you've had, whether it's secondary trauma or true trauma,

you've seen it all and you've experienced it all and you've woke up in the middle of the night next to somebody who's screaming and who's sweating and who's bleeding. You've been there too now. I want you to go see a trauma therapist. Somebody who knows what they're doing,

who's licensed and who will walk alongside you. It's not going to be as hard as you think it is, but it's something that you've got to do for you. Thank you for your service. We love you, we love you, we love you. Keep us in the loop. If we can keep walking alongside you, we're here for you.

Tracy, don't give up. You have so much value. Don't give up. Do not give up. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. I'm joined by Dr. John Deloney this hour as we take your calls. About life, 888-825-5225.

The number is 888-825-5225. And out in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions, Justin and Taylor. I guess you guys are here to do a debt-free scream? Yes, sir. All right, let's go. Let's hear the story. How much debt did you pay off? $89,291. All right.

That is awesome. $89,000. And how long did it take you to pay it off? 24 months. 24 months and the range of income? We started out making $11 000 a year and uh we when we finished we were making 213 000 and along the way we started a business that promises to continue to grow that number come on future so i'm guessing the business is what gave us the big bump uh well it was part part of it. I had a career change, and my wife has gotten some promotions during that time.

What do you guys do? I'm in economic development. Okay. And I'm in sales. All right. Very nice. There's no economic development going on in Dallas, Texas right now, so good for you. Lots of it.

Wow. Real slow down there in Dallas right now. That is fantastic. All right. So 24 months ago, what was the debt? Let's talk about that. What was included in the $89,000? I think everything.

I mean, mostly student loans. Okay. Credit cards. One vehicle. Yeah. And then I thought it would be a great idea to get a 401k loan to roll some some of that credit card debt up why not it's all normal everything you just said is very normal yeah so you guys were normal okay great very much so 24 months ago you guys start into this journey what led to this well really the lord put us in

just a time of transition um i transitioned out of the military um we transitioned from jobs um justin left coaching he was a texas high school football coach oh clear you left the mother church man so just just noticing just all the transition that the lord was putting us in and with that being said like i we got planted into a new church, and all I wanted to do was get involved. I was like, okay, I just want to serve. I want to serve. I want to serve. That's my heart. I just want to do that. And so we get into this new church. We get planted, and I'm like, let's jump in. Let's go. And Justin, he's a little tired, you know, after being a football coach. Like, it's all the time. And so I started praying, Lord, Lord, please just, you know, convict my husband's

heart. I want to serve. Let's serve together. And so one day he comes to me and he says, you know, I'm feeling convicted about something. And I'm like, yes, okay, Lord, this is it. Like we've, this is what we've been praying for. And he just, he goes, you know, I mean, I think I stopped long enough, like talking to God for him to hear him say, I'm feeling convicted about our finances. And I was like, okay, that's not what we talked about but um but no i mean that's what really kind of opened my eyes that you know we were making you know good money but not not seeing the fruits of it wow yeah i want to say first thank you for your service to our country you're a great american appreciate that thank you and then i got to say to coach over there clear eyes

full hearts can't lose gotta get that out before we go any further. Yeah. So, wow. So you guys say, all right, we're going to get after this. Did you take the Financial Peace University class? I mean, how did you dive in? So Taylor's dad had given her a copy of the Toll Money Makeover. There it is. When she graduated high school. And it was a great paperweight for about 11 years.

You just burned through that one, huh? Yeah. Well, you know, I did it with all college students or college freshmen. I'm like, okay, I'm going to put it in a box. I'll come back and get it later. Oh, sure. And I'm pretty sure at some point

her dad saw it at our house and was like, yeah, I gave this to Taylor forever ago. I don't know if she ever read it. So I ended up reading it and that's about the time I came back to her and said, hey, look, I think, you know, we got to make some changes. Because I had just left coaching, transitioned into sales, and was making more money than I'd ever made.

She had just gotten a big promotion. She was making more money than she'd ever made. And at the end of the month, we still were just sitting there going, where's all our money going? And so it really came down to us getting frustrated to the point that we knew a change had to be made and so we we decided to take FPU and um you know after that the rest is history that I don't want to stand in front of a former of a veteran and a Texas high school football coach yeah y'all gonna get crap done in a short amount of time so what was the hardest sacrifice you made as a couple? I think really, so we ended up selling our house,

and we moved in with my mom and stepdad. Whoa. So it was close quarter with two children, two dogs. So y'all were serious, serious. Yeah. We were like, let's do this. Yeah, we basically kind of calculated out like, hey, look, if we just stick our nose to the grindstone,

we sell the house, in this many months, we'll be able to pay everything off and buy a new house. And so we did that. We paid everything off, and we moved into a new home, and it feels a lot better to be in a new home with none of the other stuff attached to us. That's incredible. Wow. So what's the key? What would you tell other couples that are sitting there going,

eh, we might do it. We've seen this book up in the attic a few times. Yeah, I would say, one, obviously communication. Being in alignment. I mean, that's probably first and foremost. But being able to just give it to God. I mean, that was probably one of the biggest things for us is just making sure that we kept him first and foremost, but being able to just give it to God, that was probably one of the biggest things for us, is just making sure that we kept him first and foremost.

Then our marriage and our kids and everything else and everything lined up just the way we needed it to. I would say just understanding that it's not going to be a perfect journey. Like most things in life, at the end it looks really perfect, but along the way there's definitely some conversations where you're like, what are we doing you know well and how do you how would you counsel somebody i mean you're a former high school football coach you have to have at least an f-250 if not bigger and you're a veteran so clearly you got a jeep that's jacked up out in the parking how do you how do you make

those sacrifices i mean you gotta have gone to gone to grab a drink with some buddies who are still coaching, and they're like, you're at your in-laws' house? What? Yeah. How would you tell somebody to work through some of that comparison issues? Yeah, I think comparison is the thief of joy. A lot of people will tell you that, but I think the number one thing for us was just understanding the long-range goals, the dreams.

I think when you're in alignment about what you want the future to look like and and how you're going to get there then it makes the each step along the way a lot easier to to do together oh man well that's awesome i love it i love it so who are your biggest cheerleaders along the journey well uh the group we got over here with us obviously the the grandparents uh that gave us the book and then let us crash their pad for nine months that always helps yeah that's awesome and the kiddos in the journey as well yeah so we actually had one child throughout the journey axe was born like right i guess in the middle of it yeah that was pretty cool transition april 2nd

2020 so it was like he was born right in the middle of our uh So that was a pretty cool transition. April 2nd, 2020. So he was born right in the middle of our debt-free journey and then right in the middle of the pandemic starting up. So that was definitely interesting. Yeah, April 2020, having a baby is not stressful at all. No, it was totally fine. Wow. I ended it like champs. Wow.

That's awesome. Wow. So fantastic. Well, a couple things. We're going to give you guys two gifts just to really honor you, celebrate you. One is a copy of Dave's Total Money Makeover that you can give to somebody else, and it will become a paperweight for them for a while until they decide to do something with it. And then Dave's new book, Baby Steps Millionaires, comes out in January.

We're going to give you a pre-release copy of that because that's where you're headed, and you guys have got a great future. So let's do this let's get the kiddos uh are they going to join us here for the day there they come there's finley right and then axton yes what a great name for a football coach's son come here that's like perfect i love it all right so they've been practicing i don't know they're really good at yelling i mean mean, he's mostly a half-velociraptor at school. That's what we say about John around the office.

So that's fine. All right, let's do this. We've got Justin and Taylor Finley and Axton from Dallas, Texas. They paid off $89,000 in 24 months, making $118,000 to $213,000. Take it away. Let's hear your debt-free scream. Three, two, one. Praise God, we're debt-free.

Yes. All right. That's great. Look at that. Axe is like, what are we doing here, Dad? I was coloring. Yeah. Let me eat my candy cane.

Yeah. Oh, it's a candy cane. I quit yelling. Fantastic stuff. You'll love it when you see young kids on the debt-free stage with their parents because they have no stinking clue how awesome their parents are. They're going to be old and say, we lived at Grandma's house for a while? Yeah.

Don't even remember it at all. Oh, fun stuff. It's amazing. It's why we do what we do, folks. It's worth it. You just heard it. Don't move. More of the Ramsey Show coming up right around the corner. Welcome back, America.

You are joining the conversation here on The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. I'm joined in studio by my colleague, Dr. John Deloney. We're here for you, taking your phone calls about your life. 888-825-5225 is the number. That's 888-825-5225. Blinds.com's 100% satisfaction guarantee means even if you mismeasure or pick the wrong color, they will remake your blinds for free.

We could call that the Ken Coleman condition because I'm the idiot that would do all of those things, John. That's why that actually exists. That's why they're a great company. I'm another level of idiot. I don't have any blinds. I haven't even tried yet. That's how scared I am. Yeah.

So you get free samples, free shipping, and with all the new promos they run every month, you'll save even more. Use the promo code Ramsey, and you will get the best deal. Today's question comes from Andrew in Oklahoma. My girlfriend and I met in college and have been dating for four years. I left school for a great job in IT. In school, I didn't know what I wanted to do, but realized when I took this job that it is my passion. My girlfriend just started optometry school, which is three hours away, and wants me

to move there and get married. I want to get married, but this dream job just fell in my lap, and I'm having a hard time giving it up. I think a long-distance relationship can work, and I'm willing to get married after she finishes school and gets a full-time job. Is it selfish of me to want to keep my job for now? Hey, Doc, I'm going to let you take a shot first, and then I'll swoop in if I feel necessary. I've got thoughts. What do you think, relationship guru? I don't think this is a job issue.

I think somebody wants to get married now and somebody wants to get married later i well well diagnosed so i think there's a relationship that is much more rocky than the previous four years might might let on and we've come to a fork in the road i don't recommend dating for seven years three three of those being long distance, one of you in grad school and one of you working your dream job. This is a conversation that's not, it's going to end up being a fight

about school or a fight about my dream job. That's not it. The conversation here is about our relationship. That's what I think. Yeah, I don't think it's fair, and I don't mind you disagreeing with me on this. I don't think it's fair for her to put that pressure on him to move to where she's going to school. Not where she's going to work, but where she's going to school.

Temporary for her to say, hey, I need you to leave this thing that you love. It's a big part of what you're doing and who you are now. I just think it's unfair for her to ask that. And vice versa, right? She gets into optometry school. Yeah, it's not right for him to go, no, you can't go to optometry school. You forget your dream. I agree with that.

My thinking here is, man, I've just— Is this the only optometry school that she can go to? We don't know. We don't have the geography. Or is it, there's not it jobs somewhere else in no talent right so yeah that's where you're going to have this impasse together if somebody gets into med school and my first thought is well what about me that's a signal that you're not on the same page relationally right wow um tough yeah so my wife

had a great job and and that she loved and great community there in Texas. And then when I got this job in Nashville at the university, it was – I can't wait to see what this adventure is going to be, right? And it would have been the same. If she got some great opportunity tomorrow, then it would be about how can we do this thing together, not what about me, what about me. So, yeah. They got to figure out the together first. That's right. And then the job stuff tends to take care of itself.

Yeah. Not always, but maybe. Yeah. That's good. All right. Let's get back to the phones. 888-255-225. Ariana is joining us now in Los Angeles.

How can we help? Hey, guys. Thanks so much for taking my call. You bet. I finished grad school at the end of 2019 and with about 71,000 student loans from that degree. And when COVID happened and the interest got paused and payments got paused, I really didn't make any payments, but I've still been saving money. And as of a couple of days ago, I have the money in my account to pay off that entire loan wow good for you do it what's your degree in thank you it's in consumer psychology and i'm kind of doing

something related to it but consumer psychology is depressing isn't it it is it is it's really depressing what is because i think there's other people listening that want to know details, what is consumer psychology? It's one of my favorite, you explain, it's one of my favorite things, but you explain, Arana, you're the expert. Yeah, sure. Well, my degree didn't imply psychology, and there was a focus on consumer psychology, so just understanding the motivations of why people make the decisions that they do when they're purchasing but i'm actually in kind of a a different field went into something different just because yes it was depressing and it did not uh is it depressing because is it depressing because uh you now see uh how pathetic humans are and how easily manipulated they are to buy something?

What's going on? There is much, much less free will than we like to walk around believing there is. That's what I was thinking. And people make decisions based on tribes, not on rational thinking. Is that fair, Arianna? Did I just describe your graduate degree? Yes. All right.

Sorry. I was learning on behalf of the audience so why wouldn't you pay off the student loans now because you have the money in full why wouldn't you do right i'm pretty confident that i'm gonna do that um i've just been getting a lot of conflicting advice from my parents and financial planners that are kind of advising to buy a home instead or invest it instead just because they know I have that money right now. Because they're okay with debt. Can I talk to a real psychologist for a second?

Yes. Okay. So you know one of the core tenets of psychology, one of the core tenets of a person being physiologically and psychologically well is this idea of autonomy. I have some say, however limited that might be, I have some limited control in what my tomorrow might look like.

And I have come to believe that when you are in debt to somebody else, to an institution, to a group, to a vehicle, loan, whatever that may be, that you limit your autonomy for tomorrow. And I've come to believe that you cannot be psychologically whole if you owe somebody else something. If somebody else is dictating your tomorrow actions because of something you bought yesterday. Is that fair? Yeah. And I think having a home is so incredible.

Oh, so cool having your own place. But if you pay this off, you will wake up tomorrow and go, you know what I can do? Anything I want because I owe nobody. That's right. And you will get an awesome home. Of course you will. But now with a whole lot less stress and you're going to be wealthy. Yeah.

Stop listening to other people. What advice would you give? This is fun. I got two psychologists in here. What advice would you give yours this is fun i got two psychologists in here what advice is a real one i'm a pretend one i'm a podcast host she's a real psychologist trying to be nice to you okay so what would you around what would you say to you seriously step out of the situation what advice would you give you you want to pay this off that's what you said and you're getting conflicting advice meaning opposite of what you want to do parents and some goofball financial advisor who's an idiot is telling you something different what would you tell yourself um to trust my dad here and what i'm hearing right now definitely solve for freedom you will wake up tomorrow free free ash i wish you could do it

right now can we pay it off while you're on the air we got a minute and a half is it all set up well i guess i guess that's my nine my next question would i would you guys advise i just empty my account uh i think you're saying that the wrong way. Would we advise that you pay all the student loan off right now because you have all of the money to do it? Yes, we would. If that's the question, yes. And it will take you three months, four months to have a fully funded emergency fund. And then you think you know what freedom is until you have no payments and a fully funded emergency fund. And that's when the call is going to come to say, hey, can you move to this state for this particular job?

And you're going to be able to laugh and go, yeah, I'll be there tomorrow. That's right. And I love that you said that, Doc. Because, Ariana, the next thing is you begin to focus on what is it that you really want to do with your life in every area. Because you're completely unchained. Professionally, Financially. You're free. John's exactly right.

What are you waiting on? I'm hanging up on you right now. You're done. I'm done. I'm done. I didn't actually hang up on her. We put her on hold. We'd never hang up on anybody unless you're a jerk.

But here's the deal. It's time. We just set one more person free, Ken Coleman. Well, we didn't do it. She did. I'm trying to take credit for her hard work. Ariana, set yourself free. Like, right now. Like, go do't do it. She did. I'm trying to take credit for her hard work. Very honest. Set yourself free. Like, right now. Like, go do it

right now. What are you waiting on? Hey, I want to thank our producer, James Childs. Our associate producer, call screener, Jenna Sears. I want to thank my pal John Deloney. And you, America, you're listening to The Ramsey Show. Hey, it's Kelly, associate producer and phone screener for The Ramsey Show. If you would like to do your debt-free scream live on the show, make sure you visit theramseyshow.com and register. We would love for you to come to Nashville and tell Dave your story.