The Ramsey Show - App - My Insurance Won't Cover My $55,000 Life-Flight Transport Bill (Hour 3)

Episode Date: January 26, 2021

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🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I am Dave Ramsey, your host, Chris Hogan, Chris Coleman. That's a combination of Hogan and Coleman.

Chris Hogan, that guy, is Ramsey personality number one bestselling author. Know him well, I do, is my co-host today. The phone number is 888-825-5225. Benjamin is with us in Washington to start off this hour. Hey, Benjamin, how are you? Hey, Dave, doing well. Doing well. Thank you for taking my call.

Sure. What's up? So I'm married. I've got a 10-month-old. We're looking at getting out of baby step two, paying off around $80,000 of debt. We've got $22,000 of student loans left. Good. Yeah, thank you.

Yeah, praise God. So it's been a journey, that's for sure. We've got about $12,000 saved and expecting an income boost around March, and the boost may be just enough to cross the finish line with maybe $1,000 for an emergency fund. So my question is, you know, is there any kind of rule of thumb? I've tried to look through the archives, and I think I may have seen some answers, but I'm just not wanting to hear from Dave himself.

Stop, stop, stop, stop, stop. I'm confused. Did you just say you had $12,000 in the bank? Yes. Okay. Well, you're not working the $12,000 in the bank? Yes. Okay. Well, you're not working the baby steps. Well, this past year, we were... So you're working your plan.

Yeah, well... If you want to work our plan, you write an $11,000 check today, and now you owe $11,000 on your student loans. And you have $1,000 in your account. And then we can ask a question. Yeah, that might answer my question. I was going to ask about like a rule of thumb for my situation considering I have a baby. But, you know, it's...

Are your jobs unstable? No, no. Okay. You feed the baby then. Yeah, that's true. Okay. You feed the baby then. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. Benjamin, the only time you would have adjusted is if you'd had a loss of income or been furloughed. Then we were telling people to stockpile money.

But even in that, during that period, once your income got stabilized or your hours got stabilized, money you had saved you would get back on the plan so what you you just you just need to write that check if you're going to do our plan now like dave always says yeah you'd reserve the right to do whatever you want but i i want you to know i i this side of the finish line is better then when you finish the other 11 000 in that student what's your household income um we uh we pull it up here had to sort of oh roughly it all out ballpark i think we're about 120 000 between phenomenal way to go dude well done okay so you're going to knock that other 11 out in what two months yeah we're we're projecting in march um you know and that i'm you know i and I was like, should I wait on that $10,000 fee

and loan forgiveness? But, you know, I know you're not waiting on the government. If you wait on the government to fix your life, your life's always going to suck. So that's a rule of thumb. So what we're going to do is we're going to write $11,000 a day. We're going to be debt-free in the next two months, and then you're going to build an emergency fund. And you've heard us say it a thousand times, you wanted to know how much is in your emergency fund,

three to six months of household expenses, which in your household, it sounds to me like is $5,000 roughly a month would probably keep you afloat. Yeah, about $5,700. $5,700. Okay, I was pretty close, almost like I've done this before. And so six times three or six times six. Yeah. So between 18 and 36 000 for your fully funded emergency fund you've got a new baby everybody's concerned about that including me why don't we round that up a little bit and just say we're going to be at about 30 000 for your emergency fund when you're finished with it? I think the period of, you know, like paying it all off

and then building it up, that kind of starting from $1,000, you know, I think is the challenge in my mind. I think that may be causing stress. I want it to. Okay. I want it to be a whip on your back that causes you to run through the finish line at freaking sprint mode. Yeah. The purpose of this is for you to not be comfortable to run like your hair is on fire to get out of debt.

That's called gazelle intensity, and that will cause you to be very freaking focused on not only getting out of this debt, but getting that emergency fund in place. Because, dude, the number of people who can be debt-free but they're home and have a fully funded emergency fund is only about 10% of the people in America that do it. Now, everybody can do it, but almost no one does. That's right. So you're going to be in the top 10% of Americans when you have no payments but a house payment and $30,000 in the bank, which makes you officially the third pig. I mean, you are the pig in the brick house, right? Without a doubt.

And when pandemic comes and he huffs and he puffs and he blows other people's house down, you're sitting there with $30,000 cash and not a payment in the world, but your house payment and a baby you have protected well. Good daddy. Yep. And here's the thing. Don't think about the money that's leaving you in the savings. Think about the money that's leaving you that's debt.

Think about the interest that you're paying, which is a a penalty so it's just a shift in paradigm it's called it's called intense freaking lay your ears back focus get it gone get her done yeah buddy and you can and just think of the legacy your 10 month old is going to have yeah uh it's a game changer my friend so again i understand that line of thinking but you gotta think different to get the end of 90 days you will have as much money as you have today yeah you really will you really will be debt free and you have started rebuilding that emergency fund yeah so we're not talking about a long time we're not leaving you out on the edge of a cliff all winter you know we're talking about 90 days from today you'll be right back where you are today, except Sally May will be gone. There's that.

There's big. That's big. Come on, buddy. You can do it, Benjamin. You know, what is interesting, and the reason I point that out, Chris, is, and for you guys listening, you need to do this for yourself sometimes, too. I have to do it, too. perceive this risk or this pain or this fear or this horrible thing until we put a little timeline on it and we go, well, that's not very long. That's right. By next Friday, this will be over.

Right. You know? By then, it's, you know, this really sucks. Yep. But in a week, it'll be a memory. Yep. Or in three months, I'll be right back where we are minus the student loans. Yeah.

So it's not like we're, like where we are minus the student loans. Yeah. So it's not like we're, like, leaving this little family in peril. No. We're not dangling on a thread. Because Ramsey doesn't understand that $1,000 isn't much anymore. You know, all this bull crap that you see on Twitter about us. Right. And how stupid we are and all that stuff. So, but I think the point is that, you know, I mean, like, for instance, okay, we're not going to a restaurant.

We're not going out to eat. We're not going to go on vacation while we're in baby step two. We're gazelle intense. We're selling everything. We're working extra. We're on beans and rice, rice and beans, scorched earth. We sell so much stuff the kids think they're next. We're completely focused, completely focused, completely focused, completely focused, completely focused.

You don't do that for 20 years. Right. Most people do it for 20 months. Some do it for 30 months. Right. Not many do it for three years. Right. That's a good point.

Almost everyone that we coach ends up debt-free except their home inside of 36 months. Like 90-something percent of them. Yeah, it's high. That's a good point. And you can do anything. It's not forever. You can do anything for a little while, people. That's it.

Get it. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. I heard a statistic recently that absolutely blew my mind. In the U.S. alone, over 3,000 people die every day without life insurance. Now, I don't want to sound unsympathetic, but this drives me crazy. What are people thinking? I don't understand how taking care of your family is not a top priority. Most of you probably just spent a bundle on Christmas on things you really didn't even need. And now you're making New Year's resolutions that are focused on yourself.

But if you want to use the New Year as a reason to do something right, like protecting your family, then take care of it right now before it's too late. Term life insurance is something every family needs, and that's why I talk about it every day. It's not complicated. It's not expensive. And Zander Insurance is the only place I recommend. Go to Zander.com or call them at 800-356-4282. Please learn from other people's mistakes and get this taken care of.

That's Zander.com or 800-356-4282. you ever feel like you'll never save enough money or pay off all your debt after a year like 2020 a lot of people lost hope they feel like they're stuck well money should not be one more thing that you have to worry about or be stuck about that's why in 2021 we are hitting reset because no matter what's happening in the world, you can take control of your money. You just need a plan and a proven plan. Ramsey Plus is our step-by-step plan. Helps you get the quick wins so you can make real progress on your debt because once you get all your debt out of your life you have money and what that means is you can start investing you can start spending and you can make it happen be outrageously generous all these things happen so if you want to get in ramsey plus that's where

financial peace university is that's where the every dollar premium app is the baby steps tracker act app the ask a coach the communities that are going to cheer you on, all kinds of other classes in there, too. Man, this thing's chocked full. You can do a free trial. Wow. That's kind of ridiculous. So time for a reset. Go to DaveRamsey.com slash reset, and the Ramsey Plus team will help you with those small daily wins.

They'll hold your hand, show you exactly what to do. This, and then do this, and then do this for 90 days, and there's nothing better than a great start. DaveRamsey.com slash reset. Jackson is with us in Utah. Hi, Jackson. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Thank you. I just want to Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Thank you. I just want to first say thank you for your show.

I've been listening for about a month now, and I actually love it. Well, thanks. How can we help? Just a little background. I'm 19 years old. I have $23,000 in the bank with a $16,000 auto loan that I have a two-year plan paid off. So I leave to basic training in a week from today, and when I get back, I plan to have $30,000 before I go to school again in the fall.

And so my question is, should I invest in a Roth IRA right now, or should I get that car paid off? When you go to school in the fall, is the military paying for it? Yeah, so I'll get my tuition paid for 100%. Cool. Good for you. Yes. So which branch are you going into, Jackson? The Army National Guard. Okay. Good for you. That's a good program they've got.

We've been sponsored by them and been bragging on them for many years. They're just wonderful. It's a wonderful program you're doing. Write a check and pay off your car today. Pay it off today? Mm-hmm. Kind of puts your stomach in your throat a little bit jackson yeah yeah well you got a pretty expensive car for this situation

you could consider moving down in car because you're a college student with a sixteen thousand dollar car yeah and uh the good news is your college is paid for are you getting a stipend as well yeah how much yeah so well not a stipend but i will i do get the benefits from the guidance comes out to almost a thousand dollars a month okay if that's what you're asking and uh are you living on campus or at home uh so i just barely moved home from college but in the fall or in the summer i'll be living in student housing after basic training okay but in the this coming fall you said you're going to school right yeah and you will be on campus then yeah is that paid for plus a thousand dollars or you need the thousand dollars to pay for that no it's the tuition paid for plus a thousand dollars now what about the housing no i'll be paying for housing out of the thousand dollars

yes okay so what i'm trying to figure out is if you pay off that car today, are you going to have enough money to go to school in the fall and pay your bills? Yeah, I plan to. I have a job right now. I pay $17 an hour, so I plan to work part-time for 20 hours a week. Even while you're in school? Okay, okay. That's wonderful. Yeah, that is.

All right. So if you can, I want you to go back and check my numbers, okay? But I think I'm understanding you. With the tuition paid for and the $1,000 stipend and the $17, plus you've got $7,000 left over. And you said you'd have $30,000 by the time you get back home. So that's another $7,000. So you'd have $14,000 in there. I just want you to be able to go to school with zero debt and no car payment and be able to eat if you can do all of that i want you

to pay off your car today if you cannot do all of that i want you to sell your car and move down in car and pay cash for the car that allows you to do that one of those two things i think you can pull it off yeah if i've understood your numbers correctly in this conversation i think you can pull it off now and and dave you point out the point of understanding that's too much car for that for his income well in his situation he's a college student right and he's and he's forward thinking i mean number one to be 19 and have 23 000 saved in an accident uh that's a big deal and so great job there yes 16 000 loan not so great not so good right yeah so it's like the happy hogan sad hogan you know you don't want to do that but buddy to stroke that

check if you run the numbers oh my friend you'll be set up that's an emoji right it is an emoji happy hogan sad hogan emojis at least a meme a meme. At least a meme. We got a meme. We got to do it with a meme. And speaking of, if you've not checked out the Chris Hogan show, I want you to check it out. Get over there. We weren't speaking of that. I am notorious for facial gestures and expressions. They've got gifs and things set up on the team shows during the show. But we have a lot of fun.

The Chris Hogan show, check it out. You can find it on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Google, all the things. We have a lot of fun. The Chris Hogan Show, check it out. You can find it on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Google, all the things. We have a lot of fun. It's caller-driven as well. And we do some segments called Panicked or Pumped. Do we get to see a happy Hogan? Yes, we do. We do.

And, Dave, I've got a flag that I throw on people who are doing stupid. Oh, so like a penalty flag. Like a football throwback. I throw a penalty flag on them. A football throwback. That's right. But you've got to come check it out. Are you wearing your little referee mask?

No. They take it on and off so much, they might as well not be wearing it. It's so frustrating to me. It's hilarious. It is. It really is. No. No masks.

Hogan's doing the show. It's just me. Having fun. Come on. Check it out, people. Happy Hogan. Yes. Sad Hogan emojis.

Yes. I knew there was going to be some money I could make on you someday. I'll sell that right now. I'm going to put that on the store. Sell it for $1.50. There you go. Sell about a million of them by nightfall. There we go.

Make a few dollars. There we go. Sam's in Philadelphia. Hey, Sam. What's up, man? Sam? Hey, how are you? up, man? Sam? Hey, how are you? How are you?

I'm doing well, thank you. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? I'm so happy to be on. In the last two days, I've probably been just like 25 hours of your podcast, so it's really nice to be on. Man, you need to get some sleep. Are you new? I'm some sleep. Are you new?

Are you new to Dave? So I started seeing some of your Instagram videos maybe four months ago. And I kind of recently just kind of get into podcasts. And I saw your video the other day. And I was like, oh, maybe I should try, you know, get into this. And I am hooked, man. Wow, we're honored, brother. That's awesome.

How can we help you today? So, personally, I'm following pretty well. I'm working. I have, I was about $55,000 in student loan debt. I should be done this time next year, which I'm really excited about. Good, good. I'm actually calling about my parents'll be death free. Good. I'm actually calling about my parents because... How old are you? I am, on Monday, I'll be 24. Okay. And what's

your household income? I make 52. Okay. And you want to know how to get them doing what you're doing? Yes. They are doing, honestly, exceptionally well. I mean, they're making really good money, but they seem like they're saving more, and they have them. They have a motorcycle, a car, and they sell the house to finish. Yeah. What you're going to run into, Sam,

is what we call the powdered butt syndrome. Yep. Once someone has powdered your butt, they don't really want your advice on sex or money. And so your chances of you teaching your parents this stuff is very low. The only thing I can suggest you do is you tell your story. Yes. Don't tell them what they should do.

You tell your story. Mom and Dad, look what I'm doing. Look what I'm doing. Look what I'm doing. Look what I'm doing. You might infect them with the virus. And I'm not talking about COVID. No. The happy. The happy Hogan virus. It is. Seriously. The happy with the virus. And I'm not talking about COVID.

No, the happy. The happy Hogan virus. It is, seriously. The happy Hogan virus. Live it, share it, and tell about it, buddy. I'm telling you. Yeah, just talk about your story. Tell them what you are doing.

Oh, no. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Chris Hogan, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Dave is in Pensacola. Hi, Dave. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Thanks, guys. Thanks for taking my call. I appreciate listening to your show. We enjoy it. Thank you. How can we help? I have a quick question. I was going to get your opinion on a medical bill.

We have Christian Healthcare, and have a quick question i was going to share opinion on a medical bill um uh we have a christian health care and we had an incident where i was injured and all expenses were paid except for transport they don't cover transport unless it's life-threatening that's the policy we had and um long story short transport was close to $55,000. Good Lord. What did you do, fly the bird? Yeah. No, and I didn't even get the parachute. As a matter of fact, I was pretty much out for the whole short flight.

I could have almost driven. So you got life flight. No, I didn't. It was just flown to another city to where they could do a surgery on my hand. They couldn't do it in the city that I was in, in my hometown, so they chose to fly me elsewhere to have the procedure done. Why did you not? Were you awake? Who was advocating for you? I was awake, but it was an amputee.

I had cut off a finger, and they felt like it was important to get me to the near city as quick as possible to have it put back on. Did it work? Reattached. No. I'm sorry. That's okay. I had to go back a week later and have it removed. It was my...

But anyway, that was my question to you is, should I be concerned about that bill in terms of... Right now, I'm just paying $25 a month. Yeah, you've got to be concerned about it. I mean, it's a legitimate bill, and they can come after you for it. Concerned is the wrong word. What should I expect to, would you negotiate? Yes.

You know, is that reasonable to try to pay that entire amount, or should I try to negotiate that down? I was thinking your thoughts. Well, I mean, do you have $55,000? No. Okay, then we don't have a choice. I don't. Okay.

What's your household income? About $70,000. Okay. All right. I think I would talk to the president of that air company. They're probably a local company there. And where did they fly you from and to? Pensacola to where?

Birmingham. Okay. In a jet? Prop plane. Turboprop. Okay. jet uh prop plane turbo prop okay uh well uh their hard cost in that flight was a tenth of what they're charging you it did not cost them fifty five hundred dollars to make that flight in a turbo prop fifty five thousand no i said a tenth of that is their fuel their fuel cost and their it didn't cost them yeah they're they already own the airplane they got to put fuel on the airplane

they got to pay a pilot and they're paying insurance and hangers and other stuff and they're running a business i get all that but in terms of if you chartered a turboprop from pensacola private to go to a ballgame in Birmingham, you would pay $5,500 over and back. Okay. Go look it up. Go look at a charter site. Go look at air charters.

Okay. Okay, and that'll help you. I mean, we're not putting this poor guy out of business by him charging you $55,000. I understand it's a medical flight and all of those kinds of things, but that helps me with my conscience, in other words, of, in your case, I'm going to call up and settle this for $0.10 on the dollar. And what will help you to do that is two things. One is you need information, so go to a charter site and just figure out,

you know, find out out get a bid from a chart from two different charter companies for a turboprop like a king air okay a two a two something like that uh two engine craft right yes sir yeah okay all right you can tell i've done this before all right so um in terms of chartering stuff. So, yeah, go charter it. You'll be amazed. And then go look at what it costs to charter it and go call the president of the Life Flight Company, whoever they are, and say, listen, I only make $70,000 a year. My insurance does not cover this.

I don't have $55,000. I'm grateful for the flight. Even though I wasn't able to keep the finger, it didn't work out, but I'm still grateful you all did your job, and I'm not accusing you of doing anything wrong. I'm asking for some mercy, and I looked, and I saw that I could have chartered the flight without it being a medical flight for about $5,500. Would you consider working with me and giving me some kind of a discount so I can just write you a check and call this a day.

I owe you something. I can't pay you $55,000. And you're just being humble with your hat in your hand. You're not being arrogant. You're not accusing him of ripping you off or doing anything wrong. He didn't do anything wrong. You didn't do anything wrong. There's no villain in this story okay but but he's not

going to lose 55 000 by you writing this down to 5500 he's going to break even that's what i was concerned about i wanted to make the moral yeah morally the right yeah and think about the way i always think about these things too is if if a guy called me and the thing was reversed you own his company now and he's going to call you i make seventy thousand dollars a year i don't have any money the you know the digit you know the reattachment of the finger did not work but that's not your fault you guys did your job thank you so much i'm curious i was curious of what it actually cost you to take me up there and i I know that you've got expenses and planes, and I know you're running a business, and I'm not trying to do this.

I just don't have any money, and I looked it up, and I could have private chartered this for about $5,000 or $3,800 or $6,200 or whatever the actual number is. It's going to be somewhere in there. It's going to be less than $10,000. Yeah. And, you know, would you take that if i can scrape that together and let's call this a day and if somebody called you dave in that situation

and broke you even and you probably weren't gonna get your money anyway hello yes sir yeah because you don't have it then you know i'm gonna i'm gonna extend mercy to a guy like that that comes to me like that in our business now if a guy comes in here yelling at us and cussing at us and saying we ripped him off and we're supposed to give him a deal i'll fight that guy down to the ground and break his you know no we're not doing that yeah but but he come in here with your hat in your hand and be you know different spirit dave and i think you doing the research you going in having that conversation you taking notes and being clear it's all about the spirit that dave's laid out for you here for you to be able to take

the approach that's kind of the way you're wired anyway isn't it yes sir and that's why i wanted to ask the question because i could obviously we could get a loan we have no other debt we have a small family debt but we own our house you know we could make arrangements to do so but with it being you know it just would be an extreme burden to have to do that i wouldn't even go into that i wouldn't even go into that that's okay this is just this is one of those situations where a Tylenol at the Walgreens is one-tenth of a penny when you buy a whole bucket of them, right? And if you buy it at the hospital, it's $6. Yes, sir. That's what this is.

And, you know, again, the guy's not doing anything wrong. He's in a specific industry. That's the business model he's chosen to endorse, embrace. And insurance companies will pay it most of the time. But you don't have that policy. And so you're there. That's expensive. That's an expensive trip.

I'll tell you. I'm sorry, Dave. But I think you've got a process to be able to walk through, my friend. It's expensive in so many ways. Yeah, it really is. It's ridiculous is what it is. So when you're negotiating and you want to do the right thing, which is the only way you ought to negotiate,

he with the most information usually wins. So gather up information. Go get you some, in this case, charter bids some research and you know your financial situation that's right and you share that with this guy and bring him up to date and see if you can't make a deal and usually with an individual you can make a deal Thank you. Our Scripture of the day, Romans 14, 18-19, Whoever thus serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men. So then let us pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding. Winston Churchill said,

mountaintops inspire leaders, but valleys mature them. Open phones at 888-825-5225. You jump in, we'll talk about your life and your money. This is your show. Chris Hogan, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Mary is with us in Tacoma, Washington. Hi, Mary, how are you? I am well, thank you. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. My question is actually from one of Mr. Hogan's books. I read

that you could move money from your IRA to your HSA one time, and I was wondering why you would do that and if I should do that. Are you sure you read that right? No. Okay. I don't think, I may be wrong, but I don't think you can do that. Yeah, I don't think you can either, Mary. What's the example? What are you trying to do? What are you trying to do?

What are you trying to accomplish? I'm trying to max out my HSA for 2021. And also, my IRA, I lost some benefit to it a few years ago when I did something wrong, and I was hoping to just kind of make that up with this transition from, because I know you can move a little bit. You can't move all of it, and you can only do it once in a lifetime. Really? Really.

So you read that in Chris's book? I did, yes. And then I went and looked it up on the IRX tax site, and you can do that. You may know more about it than either one of us do, including the guy who wrote it in his own book. What the crap? I don't know what that's about. But what are you trying to accomplish? Are you trying to fund the HSA, or are you trying to max out your IRA?

I'm trying to max out my HSA. Why? With about $6,200 from my IRA. That's why I was calling, because Mr. Hogan wrote it, and I wanted to know why you would do that. Listen, you'll have to send that to me, that doesn't sound it doesn't make sense. You know, the goal of having the money in your HSA obviously is being able to put that your high-definition dream. So, you know, one is there as a safety net in the HSA that you can invest, right, but then the IRA is there for your dreams. So the cross-moving of those funds, you can't.

There's no purpose for it, even if you can do it. And you've evidently looked it up, and it's allowed one time. Okay, that doesn't mean I would do it. And even if Chris Hogan said in his book, and he forgot it, and it's allowed one time. Okay. That doesn't mean I would do it. Right. And even if Chris Hogan said in his book, and he forgot it, which I don't think happens. I think you're reading something else. Yeah. Because I have never heard of that, and I read Chris's book before it was published. So I would have caught it, and I would have said, what are you talking about?

Of the logical. Because I didn't know you could do that. But apparently, she's looked it up in the IRS. Let's assume you can do it. Okay. And that you and I just don't know what we're doing which is probably true so um that's okay i mean we can't know everything and so uh um i think she probably is right you probably have a one-time thing for whatever reason i still don't see any reason to do it that you would do it yeah

there's no there's no and so the answer would be unless you've got a really good reason and the reason and the movement you know causes the reason to occur, then I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't do that. Now, I guess a reason could be if you had a huge medical expense coming, and you wanted to pay for it with pre-tax dollars, you could dump a bunch of money over into your HSA by doing that rollover and pay the medical bill. And I've done it with pre-tax dollars and saved the taxes on the medical bill, which if you take it out of your IRA to pay the medical bill, you're going to pay taxes on it. Absolutely.

So that would be a reason, I guess, if you had a huge, you know, let's say you had $50,000 in your HSA and you had a medical bill that out of your pocket was going to be $150,000 and you want to move $100,000 over there, that'd save you $30,000 in taxes to do it. So that might be a reason. I mean, I can start to work my way through this logically that there could be a rare circumstance in which you would do it. But as a general planning tool, Chris is right. No, I would keep these separate.

One is for medical care. One is for dreams. And don't confuse the two. Yeah. I'll have to research that. It's interesting. Interesting. Yeah. Very, very different. One is for dreams. And don't confuse the two. Yeah. I have to research that. Yeah. It's interesting. Interesting.

Yeah. Very, very different. I mean, okay. I have no idea, but let's just go with all that. All right. Andrew's with us. Andrew's in Fort Worth. Hi, Andrew.

How are you? Hey, Dave. This is an honor. I really do appreciate all y'all are doing. Thanks, man. How can we help? So I work for the city of Dallas, and I contribute to a pension. So I've listened to you for quite a long time, and I haven't heard much about pension.

So I know you say 15% of your income into retirement, and me and my wife are right about that point. So I'm already being forced to take out about 13% into this pension, which I know if I actually retire here will be great. But it's not really growing much than that. So I just don't know, should I just, you know, aside from the 13, put 2% in like a Roth or something, or do I just even count that? I mean, I do plan on retiring from here, but. Yeah. And you know, and if you, depending on your years of service, you might get a lump sum

rollout if you left there and that kind of stuff. But still, it's not growing well, and you don't have much control over it. So that makes it scary. And it's a pension, and it's not in your name. If the city of Dallas became insolvent, you could lose it. And that's happened in other cities. I don't think that's going to happen in Dallas. I don't have any reason to believe that.

But I'm just thinking through the situation. Versus a 401K is 100% in your name. A Roth IRA is 100% in your name. And there's no way to lose. If your city went broke, you don't lose that money. Your company goes broke, you don't lose your 401K. So anyway, what I tell folks in these situations, because you don't have control over it and because it's not growing as well and because it's not an asset in your name, I count it, but let's count it maybe 50%. Translation, instead of you putting in 15% of your income, since you're already putting

13.5% in there, let's put in, you know, count that 13.5% at about half, let's call it 7%. So you need to put in about 10% of your own money in something else, give or take, 8% of your own money in something else. Maybe not the full 15. We're not going to ignore it and act like the pension's not there, but I don't want to count it at 100 cents on the dollar because of the concerns. Does that make sense? Yeah, it makes sense, and I hate it this way because I've been noticing recently how much I'm actually putting in there. I'm putting in like 300-something dollars a paycheck. Yeah, that's a lot.

And I'm thinking, man, I really wish all these years. I've been there for 10 years, how much money I would have. Yeah, and it just doesn't grow as fast and everything. Now, if your wife works outside the home, a full 15% of her income. Yeah, no, she's a stay-at-home mom. Okay, then this is simple. Yeah. So let's see then.

Let's call it you're putting in 13 and a half there, and we're going to count it at half. And so you need to put in about 8% of your income into something else. What do you make? About $65 a year. Okay. All right. And so, you know, you can probably just do a Roth IRA,

and you'd be pretty close. Mm-hmm. Okay. Okay. And some good mutual funds, and that's just kind of your backstop if something got weird or sideways with the pension. All right.

All right. Yeah, and that'll make you feel better because you'll say, hey, I'm not all in on this pension. I've also got some other money growing. And as your income grows, you're going to be in a better situation. Yeah, and you may want to do more. You may want to do another Roth IRA in her name, which you could do. But, you know, you can do $6,000.

That's going to be pretty dead gum close and won't kill you. You'll get to see that money build, and that's all in your name, of course. And you have control of it. Yeah, click SmartVestor at DaveRamsey.com. They'll help you get an IRA set up for a Roth and some good mutual funds. Good show, Chris Hogan. Yeah, that was fun, Dave. Thank you for having me.

Well done, James Childs and Kelly Daniel in the booth. I am Dave Ramsey, your host. We will be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Have a friend or family member that needs a daily dose of Ramsey advice in their life? Let them know about the Ramsey Call of the Day podcast. It's a quick hit of advice about life and money in under 10 minutes. Check out the Ramsey Call of the Day podcast wherever you listen to podcasts.