The Ramsey Show - App - My Mom Is Spending My Student Loan Money (Hour 1)

Episode Date: June 5, 2020

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. You jump in, we'll talk about your life and your money. It's a free call at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Starting off this hour is going to be Alan in Green Bay, Wisconsin.

Hi, Alan. How are you? Hi, Dave. I'm doing good. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. What's up? Okay. So I'm a What's up? Okay. So I'm a senior in college right now. We'll be graduating in a couple months. And I guess just since I've started watching your show a lot, I've been looking into budgeting and looking at my finances and stuff and how I'm going to pay off the student loans that I've taken out

while I've been in college. And while doing that, I found out that my mom has been in charge of all my finances, and I found out that she's been taking a lot of the money that we've been taking out for loans for her own expenses and not stuff that's been related to me at all. So I guess I just want to know if you had any advice for me, how I can kind of go about this, figuring out how I can pay this back, and also how I can deal with the situation and not totally ruin my relationship with my mother. So how much of your money has she stolen? I estimate about $10,000 to $12,000. Okay. And how much is your total student loan debt? $10,000 to $12,000. Okay.

And how much is your total student loan debt? $25,000. Okay. And so the way you grew up in this dysfunctional household, if you were to sit down with her and say, Hey, why'd you steal $12,000 of my money? What would she say? Right.

My mom has been really good, you know, overall. It's just, it's been really weird lately. Except for the part where she stole $12,000 from you, but okay. Right, yeah, yeah. When I do try to talk to her, you know, she gets emotional. No, she's really been struggling with money lately, and I understand that. But just the thing is, she hasn't, you know, is, we haven't had this conversation that she's using money through my student loans or anything like that.

So that's where the major issue is. Okay. Have you taken all of your financial control away from her? I have not yet, no. Okay. Well, that's the first thing you have to do is stop the bleeding. Yeah. You need to shut down any account that has her name on it or has access to her in any way,

and you need to open your own accounts, sir, and be a full-on grown-up and handle your own money at this point. You don't have a choice. Right. And so, yeah, you've got to limit her access to your stuff because she's not trustworthy i'm so sorry this is so heartbreaking for you and it puts you in such a extremely emotional position when somebody violates your boundaries like this this is financial child abuse is what it is okay um it happens more often than it should um i run into scumballs who open credit

cards in their kids names and trash their kids credit steal their own children's identity in other words because they somehow feel entitled to steal someone else's money uh and you've got to get pretty twisted in the brain to be able to do that i mean it's as if you had a shoebox of twenty five thousand dollars sitting on your bed with your name on it and it was your money and she reached in there and took half of it but she doesn't see it that way somehow in her brain she's figured out that this is okay uh it ain't okay so um you know i i you you know the only thing, I mean, the extreme, one extreme is to press criminal charges. The other extreme is just forget it and pay it.

Yeah. In between would be her promising to repay, but she's out of control. That's a promise that won't be kept. So you probably are left with two pretty extreme options and one is to just say i got 25 000 student loan debt and i'm coming out of college i'm a senior and i'm going to go pay it off or you can look at prosecuting or the problem with prosecuting someone criminally is the money's already gone and it doesn't make them have the money to give you money back. The money's just gone. It's just gone.

And you're going to have a real hard time legally getting the student loans removed from your name due to theft. That's a very difficult legal set of hoops. It probably costs you more than $12,000 to do it in legal fees so i i'm thinking you're eating this but um except to the extent that you can get something out of it for her uh out of her so i i don't know man i'm sorry i just my my brain can't wrap around somebody doing this to their own freaking kid but i so i'm trying to help you here and not not just choke her she has, like, admitted that she's done wrong and she owes me money. It's just like I'll ask for it or I'll, like, want to talk about it, and she just says, you know, she doesn't have money, doesn't know what to do.

Yeah. So. Okay. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to sit down with her really calmly but very clearly and say, number one, if you ever use my name in any way to put money in your pocket again, I will criminally prosecute you. You need to tell her that.

Because she needs to stop. Because she'll steal your ID, too, and open up credit cards. Yeah. I mean, because she's desperate and she's a little crazy. I mean, people don't steal from their own kids who aren't crazy, man. I mean, really. Think about it. So, you know, she's probably got good attributes, all of that.

I know I'm talking about your mother, but, I mean, you need to look at this realistically. So the first part of the conversation is never again, Mom. The second part of the conversation is I'm going to forgive this. I'm going to pay the debt. I'm going to forget about it. You pay me back if you can. But the only way I'm going to do that is you get control of your life and you're going through Financial Peace University.

And I will pay for it and I will give it to you so you can give it to her. Because she needs to learn how to handle money so she doesn't keep stealing. Yeah. Because I don't know where her theft is going to end if we don't. It's because she's going to end up in jail. Right. Because if you do this with a bank, they prosecute you. You know, if you do this with check-kiting, they prosecute you.

This is not a game. I mean, this is not a family affair. This is criminal activity. So for her sake, we've got to get her under control because she's completely spiraling here, if you can. And then I think realistically you're probably saying, Mom, you pay me back all this money. And just leave it on her to do that. But then you have a low emotional expectation that that's going to occur because practically thinking, I don't think you're ever going to see it. Does that make sense? Yeah. So what, I don't think you're ever going to see it. Does that make sense?

Yeah. So what is your degree field that you're studying? Marketing. Good for you. Okay. And you graduated. I have a job set up. I have a job set up for when I graduate.

I'm going to start working right away. Making what? Making pretty good money. Making what? Making how much? $48,000. How much? $48,000. $48,000. Good. Do you have any other debt other than this $48,000. $48,000.

Good. Do you have any other debt other than this $25,000? No, that's it. Okay. Well, you're a sharp young man, and you have a story to tell your grandkids about how we don't behave in this family any longer. Because you're going to be able to clean this up. And I'll tell you what. I'm going to put both of you into Financial Peace University, you and mom, if she'll promise to go and promise to repay you.

But have a low expectation of the second part occurring. Hold on. Kelly's going to pick up. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Business leaders, now more than ever, we need people with the right skills to support our communities, especially the frontline workers who provide resources and care for those most in need. To help, LinkedIn is offering free job posts for health care and essential service organizations that need to quickly fill critical roles with the people who help us all. If you are hiring for one of these organizations, free job posts on LinkedIn can help you quickly find the right people for your frontline. LinkedIn jobs can help by screening candidates for skills and experience you're looking for and putting your job post in front of qualified people who

have what you're looking for. So you can find the right person to quickly fill critical roles to post a healthcare or essential service job for free. Or if you're in another industry and have hiring needs, visit linkedin.com slash ramsey. LinkedIn.com slash ramsey. Terms and conditions apply. Thank you for being with us, America. Isabel is in Orange County, California. Hey, Isabel, what's up?

Hi, Dave. I have a question. My dad asked me for some retirement advice regarding payment options he has, and I wasn't too sure on what to advise him. Okay. What are his options? So he has a single life annuity payable to him at $1,400, a 10-year certain life annuity payable to him $1,300,

and $1,300 to my mom. Five years, a certain life annuity for $1,400. And the lump sum was how much? $1,400. No, no, no, no. The lump sum. Oh, there's no lump sum. It's monthly. There's the only three monthly options.

That's all there is. Why? Where's this coming from? This is from his job from, let's see, from... Is it a pension? It's a pension, yes. Okay. And there's no...

Does he still work there? No. He stopped working about five years ago. Okay. And he has no ability to take a lump sum withdrawal. I don't think. I haven't asked, so I'm not sure. If he does, that's my preference.

And I would roll that to an IRA, a traditional IRA, in good growth stock mutual funds. Okay? And let me stop a second, then I'll come back to your other three, okay? Okay. And let me stop a second, then I'll come back to your other three. Okay. But the reason for that is when you die, a pension dies with you or with your spouse if you have survivor benefits. Either one. Okay. It dies eventually. If you take a lump sum and let's say this is $12,000 a year.

So let's say that lump sum is $160,000. Okay. Probably not that far off. And you put that in a mutual fund. It'll produce more money per month and it survives you that 160 000 is your money it's sitting in your estate right but if you die it dies and leaves stays in the pension fund correct so that's why i would take a lump sum and roll it to an ira out of a pension if i can do that okay and it sounds like that's probably a possibility they may have not just offered that up but he's he's out of a pension if I can do that. Okay. And it sounds like that's probably a possibility.

They may have not just offered that up, but he's out of the business. He's at retirement age, and so it's very unusual. You can't take a lump sum. Okay. But let's say he can't, so let's look at the other three options. Go back over them again for me. Okay. The first one was payable just to him, $1,400 a month. Mm-hmm.

The other one was 10 years payable to him and my mom, $1,400 each. But if he dies at 120 months, if you die after 120 months, nobody gets paid. Out of five years is $1,400 to him and my mom also. And then it says if you die after 60 months, no benefits available to your beneficiary. And there's about five other options of percentages. How old is he? 65. Okay. How's his health?

Very good health. It doesn't have... Okay. Well, the longer he lives, the more the first option makes sense. The shorter he lives, the other two options make less and less sense. Does that make any sense? Yes. So, I don't know.

I'm going to go back to my original. I think that's there. I'm probably tempted for option two, which is $2,800 a month for 10 years. Okay. Is that right? $1,800 a month for 10 years. Okay. Is that right? $1,400 if they both live. How's your mom's health? Excellent.

So if they make it to 75, there's no problems, right? They just got the money. Did I understand that right? Yes. Yeah. And so what I'm trying to do is always get my money from them as fast as possible, as quickly, as much as I can, because if I don't, when I die, it's gone. Okay.

And even if you don't need it all, you roll some of it into investments. True. So do they have other money to live on? Yes, they have Social Security, and she has another pension and Social Security as well. Okay. So let me end it with this. You've got a radio answer, which can be a wrong answer, because I don't have time to really crunch numbers with a calculator.

I'm doing it in my head. Okay. But I think I'm about right. The general premise is that I always want to get it away from them as fast as I can, because that way it doesn't die when I do. And the tip of the spear on that the best one is the lump sum you follow the concept so that's what i'm leaning on and that's why i'm liking the the 10-year idea at 1400 each 2800 bucks that seems to make sense for that reason

now here's what i want you to do though number one i want you to check on that lump sum option and see if it's there number two i want you to take all these numbers and dump them on a smart vester of ours, a smart vester pro. Click smartvester at DaveRamsey.com that does investing. I'm not in that business, but that's who we recommend. It'll drop down a list of people in your area to sit down and talk to. You can choose among those people. Sit down with one of them and say, all right, here's with your mom and dad there, the three of you, and say, all right, let's go over this, get the calculator out, and let's work the math on this, given that we have two healthy 65-year-olds.

Okay. And work it out. But if lump sum is there, you don't have to run the calculator anymore. The decision's done. Take the lump sum. Lump sum, okay. And roll it to a traditional IRA. And SmartVestor Pro can help you do that as well.

Pick some good mutual funds. Drop that. It's probably $150,000 to $200,000 because it's probably calculated on about a 6% rate of return. And most of them are. Sarah is in Ann Arbor, Michigan. Hi, Sarah. How are you? I'm great.

Thanks for taking my call. Sure. How can I help? First, I just wanted to say that my husband and I are debt-free except for our house, and we plan on having that paid off by this year. Good. My question, though, pertains to a bonus check that my husband is going to be getting this month from work. How much?

About $75,000. Whoa! Nice! Yay! Nice. What's the balance on your home? About $115,000. Okay,000. Whoa! Nice! Yay! Nice. What's the balance on your home? About $115,000. Okay, cool.

Good. Yep. Now, some of his coworkers are saying that they plan on taking a portion of that money to fully fund the 401k for this year. Mm-hmm. My question pertains to, is there any benefit to do that versus getting one large check, knowing that he normally maxes out the 401k? Well, last year he did in June, so there's not a whole lot of...

He's going to max it out anyway. Right. He's going to max it out anyway. So he's doing things his coworkers aren't doing. See, they don't put him in their 401k. So they're just dumping this in there. But he's already got his 401K maxed out for the year, or he's got a plan to, not counting this bonus. Did I understand you right?

Yes, that's correct. Yeah, you don't have to do anything different. Just keep doing what you're doing and take your $75,000 and use it on the baby step that you're on and enjoy some of it and give some of it. By the way, you ought to really go do something fun. Well, we plan on it. What are you going to do? Well, we're scuba divers, and we've always wanted to go to Belize, and that's the plan.

World-class diving. You ought to do it. Awesome. You ought to do it. I've done about 200 dives, and you ought to go do it. Because it sounds like you guys make over 300, you yes i smelled it okay yeah go go enjoy some of this i mean take about 10 or 20 000 of it and just blow it and because there's only three things you can do with money you can enjoy it you can give it and you could invest it and you should always be doing

all three and i just want to set you free from guilt for enjoying it, because your husband works his butt off. Yes, he does. Yeah. Absolutely. So just enjoy it. Just go lay on the bottom of the ocean where it's blue and clear and see some beautiful stuff.

Yeah, that sounds great. Hey, enjoy it. Be given some of it, and then we're going to throw the rest of it at the house, because you're on baby step six. We need to get this house knocked on out. You're already doing your 15% of your income into retirement. If you're doing that, you got your emergency fund, you're debt free.

We're going to walk right down those baby steps every time. You're just right near the edge of baby step seven. You're almost done. You can be done very shortly with the numbers you're giving me. So very, very well done. Thanks for calling in. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Now, some of you can't relate to making $300 plus a year

and spending $20,000 on a vacation. I understand. But that doesn't mean she's wrong. Just because you can't get your brain wrapped around that. As a matter of fact, those ratios are actually really reasonable. It's kind of like somebody making

$100,000 a year. They got a huge bonus check and spent $5,000 on a cruise. It's about the same numbers. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Be thinking. Be thinking. Don't be envious. Don't be jealous. Use those people right there as inspiration. I want to be her when I grow up. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, folks. Father's Day is just around the corner.

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Plus, these guys do business right. They make their products and source their materials in the U.S. So show dad you love him and get a GRIP6 belt. To get the Dave Ramsey special, visit GRIP6.com. Matthew and Vanessa are with us in Los Angeles. Hi, guys. How are you? Hi, Gabe. Good to have you.

I see on my screen you're debt-free. Congratulations. How much have you paid off? $530,000. Whoa! How long did that take? 34 months. Good for you.

And your range of income during that time? Let's see, $195,000 to $214,000. Wow. What do you all do for a living? My wife, Vanessa, is a project manager, and I'm basically a project manager as well. Okay. What kind of debt was this? We had $64,000 in student loan. We had a mortgage, our primary for $307,000, and a condo at $159,000.

Okay. So your house has paid off. Yes. I'm talking to weird people. Yeah, we know that. I mean, really weird. You live in Los Angeles and you have a paid-for house. Yes.

Wow! How cool! So I'm guessing, looking at these numbers, you sold the condo. Yes. Yes. Okay. So how much did it bring? After we sold it, we received $180,000 from it. Okay.

So it paid off the $150,000 and $30,000 towards the mortgage. Yes. Very good. Very good. And then the rest of this, your cash flowed? Yes. Wow. Did you have something in savings before that that you threw at it?

Yeah, we had, I'm guessing the numbers right now, about $15,000 maybe, something like that. We just kind of depleted everything we could just to kind of get this paid off and be done with it. So it was a house, a condo, and a student loan? Yes. How much was the student loan again, $60,000? $64,000. Yeah, all right. Very cool. So how long have you two been married? Eight years. Almost nine years. Okay. And something happened three years ago where you went, we're getting out of debt.

Tell me about it. What happened? Yeah. Vanessa, go ahead. Yeah. Actually, my company was going through some layoffs, and so my job was being laid off. I got the severance letter saying I'm being severed. But a week after I was going to get severed, I found out that I got a job within the company, so I was able to stay on.

But during this process, we were just looking at our finances and thinking, we don't know when the day will come where I'll be severed. So we need to position ourselves and our finances so that when it does happen, it's not going to impact us greatly. So that was a driver. So it like scared the crap out of you. Yeah. And you're like, okay. And I went through it again two years later in the department that I was hired into.

Wow. And luckily, by the grace of God, I retained my job again. So still volatile. Wow. We were set up for the second time, and the first time was, you know, let's get it together and not have to worry about it. The other thing, Dave, on that was, you know, I kept looking at that mortgage on the condo, and we were paying the bank like $600 a month to say we had a rental in Rancho Cucamonga,

and I just couldn't deal with that for a long time. Finally, it clicked, and I said, you know what, we just got to sell this thing. Okay. So she comes home, Vanessa comes home, and she's like, I'm getting ready, this is getting ready to get ugly, I'm going to get laid off. And what did you guys do then? I mean, it woke you up, I get that, that's the cold water in the face. Then what was your next step? What did you do?

We're basically, you know, we're Christians, so we said, you know what? God's in control. He has a plan here. And, you know, as we look at it now, we know what the plan is, and the plan was to get us debt-free. And so we got there, but we just decided, you know, we need to, you know, buckle down. We need to really get rid of these unnecessary debts that we have and, you know, do what we need to do. So we basically just started by just determining that we want to go down this road and agree with each other that, hey, you know, if we want to do this, we need to not do this and not do that and be careful how we do this and be careful how we do that so we just kind of determined to um do that so we stop vacations we stop you know being

crazy uh we're no longer gold members uh at starbucks you know things like that you know okay that works so what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is? Stop doing all this stuff? I mean, what are the keys? Well, I would think that's the biggest one is, you know, I mean, you know, sometimes you think things are better for you than others, and so we make coffee at home now, you know, and we enjoy it better. We don't eat out as much, and that's just like our lifestyle now. And then a determination, like we said, you know, it's, you know, you've got to be determined to not do these things so that way you can, it's kind of like, you know,

the man is always going to win, and I always told Vanessa, you know, we've got to stop letting the man win all the time, we've got to win, and Vanessa probably has a few things she'd like to say to add to that. I would say being good stewards of what God has given us, and just cutting back on, you know, spending, we make our meals at home. We make our meals for lunch. We eat the same thing every day for dinner. We don't change anything.

So that's really helped us to cut back on a lot of our expenses. Okay. How did you guys get connected to us? Well, my niece, actually, Kimberly, and her husband, Michael, we had already kind of, I was kind of always a saver, and I didn't like debt and all that, so I was kind of on that road. But, you know, we got married and had different things going on, the condo and different things,

and Kimberly and Michael would always tell us about you, you know. And I had heard about you but never listened, but every time we'd be with them or something, they'd mention something about you. So I got to listen to this guy more, you know, and I had heard about you but never listened, but every time we'd, you know, be with them or something, they'd mention something about you, and so I got to listen to this guy more, you know, so the more and more I listened to you, the more and more I said, like, you know, we can do this, I mean, we're already kind of doing some of it, but we can, you know, the snowball effect for the loans and all that just really helped us to do that, and so why them telling us and us looking into more of it and me listening

more and more to you and coming home and telling Vanessa, hey, I heard this and heard that, you know, that's kind of how we did it. And so my niece is, you know, I credit her for kind of telling us about you and just having that curiosity. So now that you have no mortgage, no debt anywhere, you make $200,000 a year living in Los Angeles, no mortgage. I love it. How does that feel? How does that feel? Wonderful. It feels weird.

I'll be honest. Never thought in years of always living in debt that I would be debt-free. It's just a weird feeling, but it's really wonderful. Will you ever go back? Never. We've got a copy of Chris Hogan's book for you, Retire Inspired. We want that to be the next chapter

in your story, and that's to be millionaires and outrageously generous as you go along. Well done, you guys. We're very proud of you. Matthew and Vanessa, Los Angeles, $530,000 paid off in 34 months, making $195,000 to $214,000, including the sale of a condo that yielded $180,000. So count it down.

Let's hear a debt-free scream. Ready? Three, two, one. We're debt-free! Yay! This is how it's done. Wow. Absolutely.

Absolutely. Well done. Well done. You can follow us on Facebook.com slash Dave Ramsey. About five million of you do. I will warn you about Facebook. On a page like ours, they do not always show you everything we post.

On a private little personal page, everything you post goes to everybody that follows you. But all 5 million of you do not see everything we post on Facebook. They throttle it because they want us to buy ads to get stuff to you. They're that way. And of course, Twitter, everything goes through and some of it shouldn't.

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If you're promoting Zander Insurance, then why does it list, when you apply for a quote, 10 other carriers for term life besides Zander? Because Zander is not a life insurance company. Zander is an insurance broker that represents multiple lines of insurance, and they shop among all those different companies and get you the best deal automatically when you go to ZanderInsurance.com, which is why I buy my insurance through Zander. But they're a broker. They're not an insurance company, which is the best way to buy all insurance.

Because they can shop among many and get you the best deal. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Let's talk about preventing the unexpected. Imagine your refrigerator goes out. You can fix your major appliances yourself with parts and expert advice from my friends at Appliance Parts Pros. They carry over 2 million appliance parts and offer easy returns. And anyone can do the job themselves with 3,500 repair and how-to videos, plus live chat on their website. Save money and get your parts today at AppliancePartsPros.com. Matthew is with us in Bakersfield, California.

Hi, Matthew. How are you? Hi, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up? I work in IT, and my wife and I are planning on, well, in about three months to move to another state where I would start a business. I'll be doing what I currently do, supporting other companies, technology.

Our plan is to sell our home in California, purchase a modest home for cash, and then have between $30,000 or $60,000 left over in equity. We plan on living off that equity until I can get the cash flow up. My question is, what would be the best way to quickly build up clients in another state, knowing that it's kind of hard to do it without boots on the ground right now? What size companies are you working with, planning to be working with? Well, I think at the beginning I'm going to have to choose to work with whatever size of companies I can. Currently I work with companies that are anywhere from 8 to 50 employees. Okay, so you're dealing with a principal that can make a decision really fast.

So this is not a Fortune 500 company that takes them nine months to decide what they're going to do, okay? Correct. Somebody takes about nine minutes to decide if he's going to do it. Yeah, true. So what that tells me is a pipeline isn't really long, but you've got to get in front of some people without boots on the ground. What area of IT are we talking about? Basically companies that are generally small enough

or small enough that they don't need their own IT provider or they choose not to have their own internal IT staff. So hardware, software, what are you talking about? Actually, in my current job, I kind of handle it all, from the firewall through all the software. I just, I'm my client's IT guy. Okay, so for the small business guy, you're going to handle all of their computer and networking needs.

Exactly. Hardware, software, and so on. Okay. Just making sure I understood what we meant by IT because, as I've learned recently, people define things differently. Okay. Yeah. So it wasn't like you're just going to do security or you're just going to do, you know, Ruby on Rails or something. You're not a dev guy. If it beeps, blinks, or is broken, I do it.

I got you. Okay. So that's a great question. I don't know how. Do you have vacation time that you can use to go start kicking something off? At least making some contacts? Just go knock doors for two weeks i think i don't really have vacation time really the company that i work for doesn't really do

vacation time they're just like uh shall i forth be productive and if you need to take some time take it um and the fact the fact of the matter is i'm the only i'm the only employee in baker's field so i handle all of our people here oh It's kind of hard to take time off. Gotcha. Have you ever gone out and acquired clients before? In a limited fashion from my current employer, yeah. I've gone out on sales appointments. I've acquired some clients here.

I'd be doing a slightly different model up in Idaho simply because of the market. Oh, okay. You're going to Idaho. That's settled. Okay. What part of Idaho? South Central, Twin Falls area. Okay.

Is that market big enough to support what you're talking about? It's about a quarter million people in the area. All right. All right. Good. Just making sure I understood where you're heading. All right. making sure i understood where you're heading um all right uh you know i i i what you're saying is not illogical it makes sense that it could be done and i think you can hit the ground and go collect um you know some pay what do you make now i i know i'm going to take a hit i'm making 82

right now i figure yeah you probably make the same standard of living on $60 there. Oh, not only that, but my wife is a genius with a budget. We could live off of $1,400 or $1,500 a month. Does she work outside the home? No, no, she's a stay-at-home mom. Okay. No debt, no nothing. Okay, if you can live on $2 bucks a month um and you've got thirty thousand

dollars in your pocket you can deliver pizzas at night and support your family until you get clients so i'm not as scared i'm not as scared now you're not even going to burn you're not even going to have a burn rate on the 30 grand that's much um and and so the thing you've got to do is i would pick up an old, old book called Guerrilla Marketing, and it's not guerrilla like the monkey. It's guerrilla like the hand-to-hand combat guerrilla. Like warfare. Yes.

And so it's hand-to-hand combat, and it's just inexpensive and free ways to get your name out. And so you're going to do some SEO-type stuff. You're going to put your little website together, and you're going to try to scare up some stuff on social media. But you can't just sit in your living room and work the computer and the web. In a market that size, you need to go out and meet people. You need to go to the Chamber of Commerce and join, and you need to go to the lunch. You just need to get some business cards, old-fashioned business cards, and just start walking from business to business and knocking on their door and saying, this is what I do.

Do you know anybody? That's what I do. Do you know anybody? The other thing you can do, if you can find someone that will sniff at the edge of this, you can afford to give them your services for 30 days. That's the point. Improve your value. And so, you know, listen, that could be your pitch. I mean, you find a heating and air guy that's got 35 people working for him and three or four trucks. You go, listen, I can show you that I can make myself worth more than what I'm going to charge you as your part-time outsourced IT guy.

And I'm going to come in and fix a bunch of stuff for you that you don't even know is broken, just like when you go in someone's home and you fix their heat and air stuff that they don't even know is broken. And I'm going to make your life better, and I'm going to do it for free for a month, and then you're going to die to hire me after that. And you're going to tell everybody you know about me after that, aren't you? That's a great idea. It's the equivalent of the pizza shop giving away pizza for the first week for free. There you go.

It's exactly the same thing. It's sampling. I mean, you know, it's the old lady at Costco handing out samples of biscuits or whatever, right? That works so well. Same deal. Everybody goes there for lunch. You're getting your foot in the door because do you know anybody in that market? I know a guy that's in construction up there.

I know very few people up there. My family lives nearby there, but not within where I'd be doing my business. What I want you to do is get your foot in the door with two or three people that will tell everybody. Because it's a small enough market that there's a pretty serious good old boy network. I think so, yeah. Especially among the local Rotary joining the chamber. Yeah, and then you get a construction guy. You'll get three other construction guys.

You get a heat and air guy. You'll get two other heat and air guys. You get the veterinarian. You'll get the local doctor. And it's just going to, the word's going to go like that. And you've got to work. You've got to ask for the referrals. Of course.

But the thing about what you're doing is you're going to businesses that are not economics. Their economics don't allow them to hire a full-time person. I did. As a small business guy, I hired a guy just like you when there were 10 of us. Right. His name was Jay. I remember him. I mean, he came in and fixed stuff I didn't know was broken and made things plug together that I didn't know could be plugged together.

And it was the first time we had anything that looked like a network. And this was before there was an Internet. But anyway, you know, and there's a lot. Yeah, you can do this. You can do this. So you just commit to pizza and shoe leather and networking and sampling, and you get guerrilla marketing, and you get your website up, and you work, you know, any downtime you got,

you're just working on your SEO on the website. You put your name out there. That way you're working Facebook. You might even purchase maybe. No, I wouldn't. I wouldn't buy Facebook ads. But I'd bounce around with a Facebook location. I'd have a Twitter site, an Instagram site.

I'd put out free tips on how to fix something on your computer, on your Facebook, or on your website, and email that to anybody who will take it. And then people start subscribing and messing around. But everything needs to be geo-targeted. You're not trying to attract people in Nashville. You're trying to attract people in South Central Idaho. And so it needs to be geo-targeted. And you know what I mean when I said that.

So, yeah, you're going to be fine. Yeah. Guerrilla Marketing, Jay Levinson wrote that book. I would pick that up and read it. I'm also going to send you a copy of our book, Entree Leadership, which has got some great marketing input in it as well, and it'll help you do some of the things we're talking about here. That's a neat discussion.

Thanks for letting me join in on your life there. I think you can do it. Nothing you're telling me sounds like you've got your head in the clouds or you're crazy or something like that. You've got a good, solid plan, and the only thing that's getting ready to change is just the culture that you live in is getting ready to completely change. From Bakersfield to Idaho is a different move.

And so you just, you know, be ready. The pace of life is going to slow down. The connectivity among people is going to increase. And the good news is you get inside that good old boy network, your business will shoot through the moon. Yeah, that's good. Hey, good question, man. Thanks for calling in.

Get after it. Hold on. Kelly will pick up and give you a copy of that book, Entree Leadership. Kelly Daniels is our associate producer and phone screener. James Childs is our producer. Blake Thompson is our chief production officer. We call him C-3PO. This is the Dave Ramsey Show.

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