The Ramsey Show - App - My Mom Is Taking Advantage of Me (Hour 3)

Episode Date: July 3, 2024

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual, amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, PhD in counseling. He's my co-host today.

The phone number is 888-825-5225. Happy Fourth of July weekend. Happy birthday, America. You big, beautiful beast. It's pretty amazing. Brandon's with us in Atlanta, Georgia. Hi, Brandon. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Hi, John. Hi, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. How's it going? Better than I deserve. What's up? The reason for my call is my mom is kind of giving up on her career field and is depending on me to fund essentially everything for her. Now, a little bit of background.

I don't have any brothers and sisters. My parents divorced early on. How old is your mother? She's 52. And so you're supposed to support this 52-year-old woman for the rest of her life who doesn't want to work much. Well, the thing that's happened is essentially she worked at a university. She went to school, got her Ph.D., and was really trying to break into the medical field

with her doctorate, and she just wasn't able to get a job. And so now, you know, it's gone on about a year and a half now where she essentially hasn't had a job and was using all of her, I guess, money that she had saved. Pretty irresponsible for somebody smart enough to get a Ph.D. What's her degree in? Something medical research he was working. She actually was doing some sort of job at the CDC during COVID that was, you know, an assignment for, I think, six months or something like that. But before that, she was working with infectious disease. Here's the deal.

Does she have her name on your checking account? No. Okay. She can only get money if you give it to her that is correct and so she can't take it from you she can't steal it from you she can just ask you for it wait a minute let's stop a second okay let's pretend that this wasn't your mom for a second and you just you're talking to your best friend's mom who's 52 is it good for her to do nothing and drain her kid let's talk about her. Is it good for her? Yeah. It's not a rhetorical question I'm asking you.

Is it good for her? Of course not. Okay. Then if you assist her in doing something that's not good for her, you are not doing good, sir. Follow me? Yeah. You're giving a drunk a drink. I'm with you. You're giving a drunk a drink i'm with you you're giving a drunk a drink so what's happened is her heart got broken and her confidence got shaken after she went and got her phd she thought she had a meal ticket and it turns out you still got to go out there and

shovel the ditch and and she shook up and she's lost her heart's messed up and instead of actually re-engaging life she's trying to escape and in the process suck the marrow out of your bones the only way forward good man is to sit down and have an across the table conversation with your mom yeah it's good for her to re-engage life i love you and you got knocked down hard and i'm so sorry and i'll walk with you. I'll be your biggest cheerleader. I'll pick you up. I'll dust you off.

But I'm not going to support you while you do nothing because it's not good for you. You're way too smart to waste your life away sitting and watching Oprah reruns. Right? Yeah, yeah, that's right. And I promise you there's a job at a university for and if she tries to be a travel agent for guilt trips don't let her yeah mom i i am not an ungrateful son that's why i'm sitting here but i'm so grateful and i love you so much that i will not participate in your destruction

i will not participate in you turning a wonderful life into a pile of poop. I'm not going to participate in that. I love you too much to do that. I'm going to walk with you. I'm going to hold you accountable. I'm going to dust you off. I'm going to cheer you on. I'll call you back. I'll coach you. I'll buy you books. I'll be your biggest cheerleader, but I'm not going to give a drunk a drink because something knocked her out of the saddle and now she's scared of horses she's afraid I think isn't she yeah I don't know if she really wants to anymore to be honest well that that hopelessness that hopelessness comes from not believing anymore. That's a type of fear.

Proverbs says, hope deferred makes the heart sick. But when desire comes, it is the tree of life. And so if I called her up tomorrow out of the blue and said, the CDC is on the other line, they want to pay you $140,000 a year, can you be there Monday? Suddenly she wouldn't have given up. Suddenly she would light up like a dadgum Christmas tree. So she's not done.

She's heartbroken, hopeless. And so part of your job is not to give her money but to inject hope into her life and help her get back on the horse and don't you dare give her any more money don't you dare give her any more money if you want to buy some food and drop off a bag of food do that but don't you give her cash to sit on her butt don't participate in her own destruction that's the worst kind of enabling you're not being nice you're being mean when you do that is that making sense because she it's not good for her and the byproduct of you doing this right is it actually does protect you but that's really even down the list i would let you suffer if i thought it was the right thing to do to pour money over there

yes it's not good for her not good for her how does this conversation go how's it sound when you talk to her next time um no i don't i don't have any problem really having the conversation with her. I just was really wondering how to navigate it, you know, because it is touchy for her. In person? In person. Holding one of her hands, you pick up the tab for the breakfast.

You're looking into her eyes and just telling her how much you love her 22 times during the thing. And I love you so much that I'm going to help you get back on the horse because mama i can tell your heart's broken i can tell you've lost hope and you you're too smart you got a freaking phd you're too smart to waste your life away and i'm not going to stand by as someone who loves you and allow you to do that i'm going to be cheering you on. I'm going to be kicking your butt. Huh?

Yeah, go for it. What's up? Could I ask you one quick thing? So currently she's moved out of her house into what my, I have a rental property. It's the only debt that I have left. And, you know, now it went from, you know, me being able to put an extra $1,500 it made towards that mortgage to me now paying probably another $700 or $800 out of my... Yeah, put a time limit on how long she stays there. Six months or...

Six months. You got six months in the house, Mom, and then I got to sell it. You need to put a deadline on it. Yeah. Because otherwise this goes on for 15 years. That was a bad move, by the way. Hey, hang on. I'm going to send you Ken Coleman's books for

her from Paycheck to Purpose and Proximity Principle. Maybe they'll help her get started. This is the Ramsey Show. Buying a house or selling a house right now, the Ramsey way makes home ownership a blessing if you do it right. And if you do it wrong, it'd be a curse. Yeah, stay away from it it's a wild real estate market out there and the ramsey trusted program is the only way to find a good real estate agent that you can trust to keep you on track with what we teach here at ramsey and help you get the best offer on your house find the right house for you we only send you to the top producing agents in the area who we trust.

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solutions.com slash agent ryan is in fort worth texas hey ryan welcome to the ramsey show hey dave thanks for having me on sure what's up um so i'll just try and paint a picture for you guys i'm uh i'm 21 and i have been with my girlfriend for a little under four years, and I'm considering getting married. And she's amazing. She's really hardworking. The only thing is when we've had conversations previously about marriage, I've told her that I've always thought that getting premarital counseling

is kind of necessary. Well, I guess it's not necessary for everyone, but it's a very good idea. And she reacted pretty negatively to that. And we kind of argued a little bit about it, and she said that she wouldn't want to have another person, you know, talk about our issues with, I guess, like a stranger, you know. And I was just wondering what you guys thought about that. Her alternative that she offered was we'd read some kind of book on marriage together and kind of work it out ourselves. It's ironically, it's an ironical irony that you're having a fight about pre-marriage counseling. Yeah, yeah. So, Brother Ryan, Brother Ryan.

Yeah. Just slowly back away. When you get to the door, turn and run as fast as you can. Yeah. Here's why. Here's why. No couple has it figured out when they're first getting married. You at this point are unable to say, I want to do this because it's important to me.

And if you already can't say what you need or what you want out loud, it's going to be tough sledding. This has nothing to do with her. You want to put this on like, it's just a good idea. All couples should do this. You need to be able to look your future wife in the eye and say, this is really important to me. The second thing is, if she is a person who cannot hear outside counsel or wisdom, which all of us need, then she's going to have a very tough time being your wife or your partner and your co-creator of this world y'all are going to build together. And I don't see a healthy path forward the bible says in the multitude of counsel there is safety there's a ton of statistical

evidence you have you ever heard the saying ryan that half the marriages end in divorce have you ever heard that saying yeah i, I have. It's statistically untrue, by the way. And let me throw some numbers at you that are pretty crazy, okay? If you get married before having a child, if you don't live together before getting married, if you both graduate from high school, if your combined household income is going to be in excess of $50,000, those are all controllable variables, by the way. The controlling variables you don't have is if both of your parents are married still, if all of those things are true, and if you share a faith together, you're both of one faith, if you regularly attend a house of worship for that faith,

if you do all the things I have just listed, you have a 90% probability of staying married. And part of that is, by the way, if, oh, I left out two, I'm sorry. If you get pre-marriage counseling and if you have an engagement period that lasts six months or longer, not three days. And I got married in Vegas. Okay? So some people that get married three days after they meet, their marriage lasts for 50 years, but most don't. So basically a good, decent length of an engagement. You're not sleeping together, living together,

having babies together before marriage. And you have good pre-marriage counseling and you do some of these other basic things most marriages that follow that statistically make it it's in the 90 percentile so but it's all the people that get all this crap out of order and like john said that refuse to have any input into their marriage you're freaking 21 years old. Did something happen to her, Ryan? I'm not putting you down, but you don't know beans about nothing. Of course you need outside help.

Of course you do. You called us because you wanted help. Well, Ryan knows that. Because you're wise in the multitude of counts for their safety. I'm 63, and I need help. A lot. Shut up, John. All right, so Ryan like john needs a new job

i'm gonna get paycheck to purpose on the way out the door all right so ryan like there's got to be something beneath this that's weird yeah that she gets at angry about it so like her parents went to pre-marriage counseling and got divorced, or they went to marriage counseling and got divorced anyway? So it was her sister. Ah, okay. And she's really close with her sister. Yeah. And I did come on kind of strong.

It wasn't the counseling that blew the marriage up. It was the sister. What were you saying, Ryan? I was saying I may have come on a little strong usually we talk like in the car as I'm driving and sometimes I'll say something like we have to do this and maybe that put her on the defensive I don't know but also the main thing is her sister

so here's the response in a gentle way I'm asking you to put my needs above your sister's. And if she can't do this now, then your marriage is not going to make it. And right now what she's choosing to do is to take her sister's experience and put that over what you're asking. But you also have to have the courage to say, I pawn this off on, this is just what we're supposed to do, or this is the right thing to do. I want to do this because it's important to me.

Yeah. And if she looks you in the eye and says, I can't meet your needs, or I have no interest in quote unquote doing what you say that you want then y'all need to address your relationship there that's a tough place okay is that fair yeah I think that's

this is my I've been on I've been doing radio all day today including my show this show and this is my least favorite phone call I've had to make because I know that's hard yeah i know that's horrible but also i'm gonna try and implement that though and see if she does have any yeah i mean it's this matters to me me too that's a big deal if you if you say that to your spouse and our potential spouse and they go yeah well i don't care we're not doing it anyway unless it's something that's harmful i mean what's the downside you know i mean but i mean this this is and here's the thing that as as

a as an almost newlywed that you don't see, this will happen with the home you buy. This will happen with the neighborhood you live in. This will happen with the job you take. Man, you throw kids in the mix. Hey, it's a really big deal to me that our kids go to this church. Yeah, it's not happening. Like these things just get bigger and bigger and bigger. There's an old counseling saying conflict deferred is conflict amplified.

If you don't say, hey, this is important to me that we get some counsel, that we get people to walk with us in this stage of our marriage, and she says, nah, this will turn into a nuclear bomb down the road. And I hate that for you, man, because I know that you love this woman. I had very few requests of my grown children when their spouse came and asked for a blessing to get married. One of them was pre-marriage counseling. All three of them did that. They're my kids.

They need counseling. This is The Ramsey Show. Thanks for joining us, America. Dr. John Deloney Ramsey, personality, is my co-host in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions. On the debt-free stage, Chad and Natalia are with us. Hey, guys, how are you? Terrific, Dave. We're doing great.

Good to have you guys. Where do you live? We live in Pennsylvania, close to Erie. Erie. Okay, very good. And how much debt have y'all paid off? We paid off $151,405. Wow, love it.

Very good. And how long did it take to pay off $151,000? 34 months. Good for you. And your range of income during that three years? From $142,000 up to about $177,000. Cool. What do y'all do for a living? We're both teachers. Oh, awesome. What do you all do for a living?

We're both teachers. Oh, awesome. What do you teach? I teach fifth grade. I teach middle school math. Awesome. Very good. Very good.

What kind of debt was the 151? Well, about 15,000 was our car loan and a little bit of my school debt, and the rest was our mortgage. You paid off your house yes we did looking at some weird people right here the weirdest very cool good looking house i'm seeing it on youtube here how much is that worth about 270 270 about 270 excellent excellent how old are you two we're 50 and a paid for house baby baby. Yeah. Worth almost 300 grand.

How much is in your retirement accounts? So we have only about 45,000 in our Roths. And then we have a whole bunch of money and contributions and interest that will come to us in a lump sum from our pensions eventually. And that's what we have so far. All right. Way to go guys good job not to mention um when you die is after spending life as a middle school math teacher

there's a conveyor belt to heaven you just get to pass everything you just get straight in man kindergarten teachers you got to stay in line but you just get to go right ahead wow spoken like somebody who taught math in middle school nope spoken like a kid who just got a middle schooler out of math oh wow way to go guys congratulations thank you okay so 34 months so 36 months ago or so something happened how long have y'all been married 20 29 okay so 29 years you've been bumping along but something happened and you said okay something's got to change here we're going to get this house knocked out and these other things too what happened so um i have a friend who um is quite

a bit younger than me and so conceding to him much of anything is not something that I like doing. And so he had gotten way on board with the Ramsey business and was drinking the Kool-Aid and way down the road. And I was hemming and hawing and hedging. And he would just make these little comments. Shout out to Carl Giesing. And he would say things like well that's okay you don't have to do it but someday I'll be a millionaire and you won't

just these little digs and so eventually I decided pretty much the classic thing of like we make too much money to still be paycheck to paycheck like you know I mean our incomes continue to grow

and, you know, why don't we have something? So Natalia, Chad comes in and says, I'm tired of Carl dogging me. We're going to look at this. What'd you say? I was pretty much on board. The only concern that I had, because we were very poor when we got married.

Chad was a missionary in Russia and that's how we met. I'm actually from Russia anyway. So when when we got married. Chad was a missionary in Russia, and that's how we met. I'm actually from Russia anyway. So when we first got married, we had $14 as our budget for food a month. So when he proposed that, first of all, it was a miracle because Chad was never really about money. He would just give everything away, and we were happy, and we loved jesus and just god will provide and um but then it was a miracle that he brought it to me and i i hope i was on

board right away but my concern was like you didn't want 40 food budget yeah that was my only concern yeah so yeah i'm guessing it wasn't no it was not we're the classic thing that comes up a lot on the show where somebody is the idea guy and they're all about this that so i'm mr bottle rocket and she's just been you know yanked all over the place so that i think her reservation to get on board was was oh this is my next you know thing or but but when what and pretty much we really followed the thing where we sat down and we had a dream meeting and we talked about what and pretty much we really followed the thing where we sat down and we had a dream meeting and we talked about what could be and we tried to dream in technicolor and once we did that instead of what we can't do and the fact that now we're going to

be budget people like this is our compelling reasons why and once we did that then it started then it came together and it made sense and we and we were off to the races love it love it love it congratulations you two wow so what's the first big thing you're gonna do now that you don't have a payment in the stinking world well the first thing that we are doing is here yeah what's the first big thing well we're i mean we're staying at the drury downtown in nashville and we're you know we and this is a lot of money for us to spend. I'm driving a $1,750 car that's called the Golden Marshmallow. The Golden Marshmallow has got to go.

It's a 1996. That's number one. It's got to go. Yeah, Sable. Anyway, Mercury Sable. Look, there's a picture of it. I love it. What year?

97? 96. It's a 96 Mercury Sable. And you always talk about buying a you just told somebody about buying a $2,000 car. It was a $1,750 car. And it overheats. So when it overheats

it stops working. That's how you make s'mores. An overheated marshmallow. You could cook s'mores on the engine. So we'll get a replacement car. We'll get her a replacement kitchen at some point in the not-too-distant future. We're going to go on a family vacation where we take other folks along with us. Good for you.

Well done. All right. That's a good plan. I like it. How does it feel to not have any payments in the world? It doesn't feel real, to be honest. But it feels so good, but not quite real. How old were you when you came from Russia?

I was 21. Okay. That's when we got married. Okay. Yeah. And how surreal is this American dream now, like decades later, right? right yeah here you sit in a house that you completely own a hundred percent of that's got to feel a little different than it's amazing to be honest but like since i mean we were very young we worked really hard yeah so it feels amazing

because it was not a gift it was not you know something that somebody gave it to me you're not lucky we are not lucky you're worked hard worked so hard and then that was one of the hardest things for me to watch my husband work day night not just physically but also mentally for an hour in the morning and then for an hour two or three at night just looking at his notes and crunching the numbers and making plans and that was the hardest thing for me yeah beautiful and what about these two handsome boys over here how old are these guys uh enoch is 25 raise your hand 25 and caleb is about to be 22 um and so when we started this, the summer of 21, we just kind of on-ramped toward it,

realized that if we're going to go all the way in, we need to do FPU. And so we brought them on board, and we did FPU one lesson a day for nine straight days. And that was the launch board. And so these guys have really been uh along uh for the journey here's what i love about that that's a dad that says not only no more with me but that's a dad that looks at his two sons and says no more with y'all either

yeah and that's amazing right there i'm proud of you for that yeah one of them just bought his first his own first car uh all cash for a beautiful it's a better car than your oh it is way better it's a low bar way better anyway and the other one uh paid for college uh debt-free and and they're both living totally debt-free they're roommates and up across town it's great jump up there with your mom and dad while they show that they changed your whole family tree, young man. $151,000 paid off in 34 months, making $142,000 to $177,000 100% debt-free. House and everything! Chad and Natalia, Erie, Pennsylvania, count it down.

Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! Yeah! That's how that works. Woo! You gotta love it, baby. This is The Ramsey Show.

Our scripture of the day is Psalm 2713. I remain confident of this. I will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the day, Psalm 2713. I remain confident of this. I will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living. General Douglas MacArthur said, duty, honor, country. Those three hallowed words reverently dictate what you ought to be, what you can be, and what you will be. Love it. Love it. Love it.

Love it. Happy Fourth of July weekend, everybody. Reese is with us in Gainesville, Florida. Hi, Reese. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave. Good afternoon. Hey, what's up?

So my question is that I'm 25 and I'm on disability insurance and disability payments, and I was wondering how I could build wealth. What's the nature of your disability, sir? So when I was five months old, I had a heart transplant. Fast forward to 2018, I got lymphoma cancer. Then in 2022, it relapsed again. I'm in remission for both, so I'm good there. And currently I am a University of Florida student. I'm in the senior year. I plan on getting my master's, and I'm debt-free. Very good.

What's your master's going to be in? Same thing, food and resource economics or applied economics. Okay, fine. All right. I don't know enough. I'm not good enough at medicine to know what this all that stuff means for your future and what your situation is. What I always when I'm working with someone that's facing a disability, the always reason I ask the nature of it is there's a technical disability. There's meaning that you are declared disabled in order to receive payments from the military or from a disability policy or from SSI or whatever. And then there is, I don't know how to say this properly. I'll just try to say it.

Just try to say it. And if it sounds wrong, don't be offended, please. Then there's the actual disability meaning what can you actually not do and so if i woke up in those shoes i you've got a balance between the technical disability you can't continue receiving most disability checks while you go earn three hundred thousand dollars they generally cut those checks off right depending on the situation.

Now, sometimes with military, it keeps going either way. I don't know. But if you're unable to do certain things like physical things, but you're able to use your mind, which in talking to you, it sounds like you have a wonderful mind, a great intellect, and you could use your mind and go have a wonderful career in spite of these limitations, obviously, that's going to be your best route. Agreed? Yes, sir.

That's actually my plan was to go into government and do research so that I wouldn't physically have to do anything, but I can use my brain to thoroughly thrive. But I'm kind of a little bit weary right now because due to the fact that I have these ailments, I'm way more likely to get cancer again. I'm way more likely to pass away sooner than the average person. Yeah.

And half of me is thinking, like, is it even worth it to save up wealth and build into a retirement that I might not never receive? Yeah. Yeah, it is. But it's not worth it to have no life in the meantime. And so you've managed to stay debt-free, right? Yes, sir. And so, you know, you've got three things you can do with money. You can invest it, you can give it, and you can enjoy it.

And I always tell everyone you should do all three, and you should do all three. If you want to slow down on investing and have a moderate investing plan and a higher enjoyment plan based on your supposition, well, that's okay if you want to go that route. I don't care. The downside is you might live to be 70 and be screwed, right? Right, right. Yeah. Reese, you've been given a strange gift, and it's a gift i wouldn't wish on anybody but it's that you got to peer over the edge right you had to sit in a doctor's office and hear them say the word cancer and you were raised with one or two parents who had a youngster with a heart transplant

like you know and you know that millions of men and women go to college every year because they want to get rich or they want a paycheck or we talked to somebody earlier in the show today that just wanted to get a job because of the benefits and you have had the gift to peer over the edge and realize i am not doing anything that isn't going to bring me joy and excitement and that i'm going to be able to pour myself into because I know this whole song and dance comes to an abrupt end. It's just a vapor, right? Yeah.

And so if you love studying economics, what a cool moment in history when they've thrown all economics programs online and you can be a professor that's got incredible compassion for students or you can be an economic researcher and please god help congress right like you can be an incredible contributor if this is something you love to study

if you hate studying economics i'm going to plead with you your life is too short and you know and i know it go do scope find something to use that amazing mind that's going to contribute to your life and to everyone else's life around you yeah so i think your baby steps are exactly the same though and i think investing is always going to be a part of your plan see a hundred dollars a month invested from 25 to 65 in good mutual funds and a roth ira is over a million dollars okay so it doesn't take a lot so you you land a job out there with a master's an econ making six figures you know you save 500 000 bucks a month you're gonna be a multi-millionaire if you make it to 70 and um and none of us know when we're gonna make it right so um but like john said you peered over the edge So, yeah, I don't think it changes a lot.

It just changes the maturity level with which you're going to be unusually emotionally mature at 25, more serious. Yeah, and for somebody who thinks, well, I'm not going to get to spend this retirement. What if you thought about what your mom's face looked like when they told her your baby's going to have to have a heart transplant and you created an endowment for moms and dads who are facing that kind of surgery? Or you begin to pay into something that's going to live on long after you're gone and honor and bless families. Like you get to think bigger and beyond just what kind of car am I going to drive?

You might have $10 million in an account that sets something up that runs in perpetuation. You get to think bigger and beyond just what kind of car am I going to drive? You might have $10 million in an account that sets something up that runs in perpetuation. Just that keeps going. The endowment idea. And how fun if I know, okay, I only got this much runway. I'm going to make this runway count. And Dave, there's an increasing call in some of the psychology literature about we just burn our most precious resource time and if we all knew how precious it was man we'd get off these stupid phones and and be about earning and loving and serving anthony in california how can we help hey guys how's it going better than we deserve what's

up so i have a question um i recently got a new promotion, and with that promotion came a raise. It's about, I want to say, $7 or $8. But by September, I'll be at a complete $9 raise from where I was at. So it's awesome for me, but I'm not baby step two right now. Just finished paying off most of my credit card debt. I have about $1,000 left on one card. And then, unfortunately, I have a $50,000 Sally May and then unfortunately I have a fifty thousand dollar salary may loan from school so that's kind of biting at me and I kind of feel like I know what

you guys are going to tell me however the thing is now that I'm at this new job I have to commute about an hour from where I live the gas isn't a problem my car is paid off and I only have to pay the insurance but it's really old well into over 200,000 miles, and it's got this maintenance I have to always do. I'm just kind of worried that it might break down on me later, and then if I don't have anything saved up for the car, then. Anthony, drive the beater and get out of debt. You don't buy a car with a race.

Go be free. You already knew that. You knew we were going to say that. You know why we say that? Because we love you and we want you to win. I want you to be able to drive anything you want to drive the rest of your life. If you go buy a car right now, you're going to short-circuit that, and it's going to delay your financial freedom significantly.

It's so easy in Bakersfield, California, to get car fever. At every stoplight, there's cool cars. And you're not driving one of them because you're broke and $50,000 in debt. But someday, you'll remember sitting at that stoplight when you're driving a nice car and you didn't use your raise to go buy a stupid car that goes down in value i love cars but financially they're just straight up stupid there's just no way around it please don't do it anthony please don't do it and you knew we were going to say that you just wanted us to say it so you could hear it and we did that's what

we're here for stating the obvious over and over. That puts us out of the Ramsey Show and the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Thank you. We'll see you next time.