The Ramsey Show - App - My Mom Took Out Debt in My Name! (Hour 2)

Episode Date: July 31, 2020

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🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studio, this is the Dave Ramsey Show, where America hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money. I'm Chris Hogan, filling in for Dave, and co-hosting with me this hour is Dr. John Deloney. We are excited to have you here. Listen, I don't know what it is about me saying co-hosting. Okay, so here's what I'm going to do. Henceforth and forevermore, I'm saying hosting with me this hour.

You can say the word henceforth, and you can't say co-host. I don't know what it is. It is this weird tongue tie, but I'm just going to calm myself out, and I'm going to fix it from henceforth and forevermore, and I'm done with it. That's very Shakespearean of you. And on behalf of co-hosts across America, we henceforth thank you, Christopher. Hey, we are so excited to be back with you all. Listen, if you're out there and you've got a question, and I know during this time, relationship things can get tense.

Family dynamics can get off kilter. Or maybe you need some help setting boundaries. Well, listen, I've got the man in here that can help you with it. He's been helping people with emotions and anxiety for many, many years. And Dr. Deloney is in here and is ready to help. Are you ready to get on this today? I'm ready. And if you've got money questions, family life questions, you don't know where to park that retirement. You're stuck on the baby steps. I have the pleasure of co-hosting, henceforth, with the one and only Chris Hogan.

You can follow him at ChrisHogan360.com, at ChrisHogan360. That's where him and his VIPs go to hang out. Well, I appreciate you, brother. And be focused and not finished and all of that stuff. There you go. You got it right. All right, here's the deal. Call go. You got it right. All right. Here's the deal.

Call us. Kelly is over there. She's sipping coffee. The phone lines are not full enough. We need you to call in. And here's the number, 888-825-5225. Again, that's 888-825-5225. Find us on social media at Ramsey Show.

We'd love to be able to talk with you. Some of the social questions are popping in and I've got one for John and I'm going to, I'm going to start off the hour with you right now with social media, just so everyone understands. This is from the Ramsey baby step community. Oh, this is from Jose. Jose says, how do I deal with the guilt of debt? I am the one that brought it in and I feel constantly, and I'm so afraid to come clean. Ooh, that last part.

Oh, that's the bomb right there. That's it, right? Yep. So when I heard, I brought it in, and I feel guilty constantly, my first question is why? And then he says, I haven't come clean. I haven't come clean. So, Jose, number one, brother, you've got to come clean. You've got to go to those who you have violated, including yourself,

any kind of partner you have, some kind of family, church group, whatever you agreed, this is how we were going to live our life financially, and you violated that. You've got to come clean. And if it's just coming clean with Jose, man, look in the mirror. Say, I did wrong, period. you're holding a brick that says guilt put it down get the baby steps and go forward yeah here's the deal i think that laying it out there and being able to see the debt for what it is is first and foremost the reality is never as bad as what our minds make it up to be. Sometimes it's bad, but the solution isn't as bad. That's right.

And it may not be, but here's the thing. Stop guessing, speculating, intimating, and all the other eightens. Let's just talk about it and then see it and go, you know what? Here's the deal. I remember, John, get this. I worked with some clients. The wife had $32,000 in credit card debt the husband didn't know about. And she wanted to reveal it in my session.

Okay. And listen to me. This got, things got tense. Yep. Okay. Because she had credit card statements going to the office instead of home. And she was just making minimum payments. And it was on stuff that was in the closet.

You know, he never saw it. And I mean, it's just, it's a a big that's a big bomb dropped in their financial lives it's bigger than that it's a bomb dropped in their partnership yes because in our partnership we tell the truth and our partnership we're connected right yeah absolutely and supported right and so and so it's tough but jose i'm going to tell you laying it out talking about it uh don't don't let that stress continue to drive the wedge between you and your significant other because that's exactly what will happen. You will start to feel guilty. You will start to feel disconnected. And it's over this thing that can be fixed. And it's easier to row in the same direction together than it is to be apart.

So today, sit down with them, lay this out, be upfront and real with it. And more importantly, I want you, Jose, to come to the table with options. What are you going to help do to clean it up? And that might look like a second or third extra job, but it's an option of showing your commitment to fixing it. That's exactly right. Come with a plan, come with honesty, come with integrity, and then put the guilt nonsense down and then move forward. I like that. Put the guilt nonsense down. All right,

listen, we're going to the phones. We got Nick on the line. And Nick, thank you for waiting, my friend. You got a question. How can we help you? Yeah, I was wondering if it would be better to get a financial advisor or go about trying to invest by myself. Okay. How old are you, Nick? I'm 19. What? Brother Nick!

Nick, did you call into the right show? Yeah. Are you sure? Who taught you about money at 19 years old, buddy? Well, my grandma did a big part in it and a uh teacher from high school well uh she showed me dave ramsey's show and i've been hooked ever since that is fantastic bud so are you working full-time or are you going to school uh i'm a full-time student but i have a part-time job right now okay oh my gosh nick yeah he's like a unicorn. What are you wanting to study, buddy?

I originally started out in trying to be a teacher, but here recently I think I'm going to go and try and be a finance major. Okay. Here's what I think, and I think this is an excellent opportunity for you in a couple of ways. I would reach out and connect with a financial advisor, an investment professional, for a couple of reasons. Number one, to give you some guidance on investing, but also to help you get some research on the career. To give you an idea, this is an opportunity for you to make a networking connection as well

as helping you get some professional guidance. This is a win-win all around. Now, Nick, you may say, hey, I know the asset classes and what I want to invest in, and I can set this up on my own. But why not get that second opinion and grow your network? Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. So that's what I would do. He called me, sir, like I'm old.

Ramsey's old. I'm young. All right. So anyway, Nick, listen to me. I disagree, sir, but continue. Okay. I'll deal with you at the break. Nick, hold on.

Kelly's going to get your information. I'm going to send you both of my books, Retire Inspired as well as Everyday Millionaires, because if you're wanting to get into the financial world, this is going to kind of give you some realistic knowledge and to allow you to grow. And I'm going to tell you, I applaud your grandmother, and I have to applaud your teacher, the one that took the time to teach foundations in their high school. John, that's our curriculum for high school and middle school students because we know that this money stuff is a life skill. That's right.

And if you don't know how to use money, money will use you, buddy. That's right. Okay. Now, you probably never made any mistakes with money. Zero. And by zero, I mean a lot. Lots of zeroes. Holy smokes.

I've made some mistakes. But I love it when teachers take the time to teach this curriculum because these young people, whether they end up going off to college or not, you've got to know how to deal with money. You've got to know the spend, save, give and how to invest. And Foundations in Personal Finance is the course. You can go to DaveRancy.com to learn more about it and bring it to your high school or middle school if you don't teach it. We've got to help young people turn this country around and we can do it one household at a time. This is the Dave Ramsey show. I heard a statistic recently that absolutely blew my mind.

43% of Americans are not protecting their loved ones with life insurance. This drives me crazy, people. What are you thinking? Taking care of your family has to be a top priority. Think about it. If you died today, would you be the hero by making sure that your family had the money necessary to carry on their life without struggle and hardship? Would they be able to pay the bills and plan for the future?

That's what term life insurance is all about. Regardless of where you are in the baby steps, you've got to make this a top priority. Have I gotten my point across yet? That's why I talk about Zander Insurance every day. They keep it simple and make sure they find you the best rates out there. Zander will do their job to find you the best rates and make sure you're served like I expect. But you have to take the first step. Go to Zander.com or call 800-356-4282. Hello, everyone.

This is the Dave Ramsey Show. We have John Deloney and I are hosting the show together this hour. And we're excited to take your phone calls. So we want to hear from you. That number to call is 888-825-5225. Again, that's 888-825-5225. Also, at Ramsey show for social media. And then also please people get over and follow John Deloney at John Deloney on Instagram. Uh, he is, uh, so concerned about the number of followers

that he has. I can hardly sleep at night. I know you're losing sleep, but you can find him. There it is. He's got some, some stuff that he's been posting and doing some things. And of course you can find me at ChrisHoken360 as well. And we'd love to have you follow us and let us know what's on your mind, and we talk about it. So we're going to the phones because that's what we do. So let's load up the lines. Give us a call. Next, we're going to go to Effingham, Illinois.

I've actually been there. We've got Bailey on the line. Bailey, how can we help you? Hi there. We've got Bailey on the line. Bailey, how can we help you? Hi there. I just found out about a couple months ago that my mom had taken several credit cards out of my name. How did you find out, Bailey? Okay, so I talked to my boyfriend and he's like, hey, you should totally do like a credit check and check and go through, like, a credit report. So I looked up a credit report, and it showed that I had six credit cards taken out of my name. And I was already in, like, $16,000 worth of just credit card debt.

Wow. How much in credit card debt are you now? Now it's the $16,000. Okay. So she took out debt in your name. Yes. So you do your research. You get your credit report.

You find this out. Have you talked to your mom about it? I have, and she didn't like the idea that I knew about it, and she was making payments previously, and then she stopped as soon as I confirmed to her about it. Wait a minute. You ask her about it. She confirms, but then she gets mad at you, and she stopped making payments? Yes.

Okay. Bailey, how old are you? I am 21. You still live at home? I do, and I go to school full- live at home? I do. And I go to school full-time in Murray State. Okay. So what your mom has done is she committed a crime against you, like a legal crime.

Yes. And she also violated trust between a mom and a daughter that should not have happened. And so I want you to hear me say what happened was legally wrong and what happened was morally wrong. And you should be justified in feeling hurt and feeling frustrated. And then when you did the right grown-up thing and you said, hey, mom, what did you do? And then she threw a temper tantrum by not paying her bills, right? Right. All that is a gross violation of everything about your relationship. And so I'm sorry, Bailey.

That sucks. Yeah, Bailey, are you – so you're going to school full-time. Are you working part-time at all? Yeah, I am working part-time. Okay. Because what's going to happen is you're going to start to get calls from these collectors. Yep, I have. Okay.

So, I mean, have you talked to them yet? No, I haven't. Okay. Here's the reality. And Dr. Deloney is correct. This is, you have had a crime committed against you. And you got one or two options. You can report it because it is fraud. You did not sign this. You'd have to complete a police report and it'd have to walk through the whole entire process. Or the other side is, is sit down with your mom, and you guys devise a game plan on this thing getting paid off. Another step that you can take is to freeze your credit.

That's where you would write a letter to each of the three credit repositories, Experian, TransUnion, and Equifax. Let me say that again, Experian, TransUnion, and Equifax. Let me say that again, Experian, TransUnion, and Equifax to close it down. But, you know, this is something that's going to have to be dealt with. I'm going to be even more direct, Chris. Can I be even more direct? Yeah, oh, come on, buddy. Listen, the temptation right now for any 21-year-old is to preserve the relationship. How do I not upset mom? how do i not frustrate listen your

mom has had a gross violation of you and you now have to treat her like an adult that has violated your legal rights and your ethical rights so you've got to i think chris is right immediately go freeze your your credit so that nobody else can take anything else on you. And I would sit down with my mom and say, you've got 48 hours to clear this up, or I'm going to have to report it because now I've got to get a new Social Security number. I've got to get all these new things because I can't trust my mom. You also are going to have to find a place to live. And that's a part that you're going to have to take on because you're now a 21 year old adult having to deal with adult problems which means the the home you're living in

is not going to be a safe place for you anymore you got to go find somewhere else this is grown up the way we say it is not by your hand but in your lap no you didn't do anything wrong it got dropped on you but you got to solve this problem aggressively and directly well now here's the thing going that route with aggressive you're absolutely right you got to find a new place to live you may have to adjust your school plan. That's right. You may have to work full-time and go to school part-time. Right.

And so this is the reality of this scenario. And for people that are out there listening, if you've never looked at your credit report, you can get a free copy of it each year. Again, there are three credit repositories out there. That means three places that house your credit. Experian, TransUnion, and Equifax. You can get a free copy or you can get a tri-merge copy that's kind of got all three of those merged into one. You've got some debts that report to Experian that won't report to Equifax. So that's why I want you to see everything. John, unfortunately, this is the type of thing that happens a lot.

And so that's why we talk about making sure that you have, you know, the right kind of protection, fraud protection, identity theft. We have it here as a benefit, as a part of Ramsey Solutions through Zander. But, you know, out there, I'm encouraging people to really be aware. You know, we're in a technological society right now where information and data footprints are all over the place. Data footprints means it's wherever you go online, they can track you. That's right. I'm just letting you know. I'm like a technological savant.

I just heard that the other day. But anyway, listen, bottom line is you want to have protection, and identity theft is there. Also, for you that are out there, maybe you've got parents that are aging, or maybe you have grandparents, and they're debt-free. There's no reason for them to borrow anymore. You can freeze the credit report by writing a letter to all three of those credit repositories. I believe you can call them now. You can call as well. And that means freezing means no one can open credit in their name, not even you.

You would have to unfreeze it in order to do that. And so, again, in this day and age, this is something you want to be aware of. And, again, be very, very smart. And parents, don't steal from your children. Yeah. Don't steal from your children. Your children are not a backup piggy bank for you particularly when they're 21 years old i don't understand this you know for bless bailey's heart like

it was being paid on and now that that she knows mom's temper tantrum i'm done right what are you seven yeah what she's gonna be is in jail because if Bailey presses charges, bro, this is beyond grand larceny. It's over $100. No, this is real. We're talking jail time. $16,000 theft. $16,000 theft. And so I'm not saying Bailey's trying to do that to her mom.

Right. But the bottom line is, what's the game plan? Don't try to toss me this $16,000 rotten egg and tell me I cooked it. That's right. And don't throw a temper tantrum when you get called on the carpet. You got called on the carpet. It is what it is.

You say, I'm sorry. I did something I shouldn't have done. I got in a spot. I got messed. I made an ethical error. I screwed up. I'm sorry. Let me make this right.

Not, hmm, then I'm not paying anymore. Ha, ha, ha ha right sister that's not how it works man that's not how it works bailey man blessings to you i know this sucks but here's another thing you have heard i've heard you say this and it's one i like it you choose relationship over being right that's right so in this scenario if she's going to choose relationship what does that look like if If she chooses relationship, and this is what people who are not in power, this is what kids often do,

because that's still my mom. It's still my dad. It's going to be cool. I'm going to figure out a way to pay this off. And the guarantee is with a parent who gets called on the carpet, all parents screw up. Me too. All husbands and wives screw up. Me too. When you get called on the carpet, if the response is repentant, dude, I screwed up and I'm sorry.

Let me make this right. Versus, hmm, well, then I'm just not paying. That tells me that Bailey, this is going to happen again and it's going to happen again. And you are 21. You figured it out. It hurts and it sucks. And there's going to be a ripple effect through your family. But you've got to act to protect yourself now because the one person who's supposed to, your mom, chose not to.

Wow. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Hello, everyone. You're listening to The Dave Ramsey Show. Chris Hogan, John Deloney in this hour. And I want to remind you and let you know that I do have a show, the Chris Hogan show. We take calls and we have a lot of fun. I do a panicked or pumped segment. I do an article breakdown. We talk about the realities of what's going on and where we are and what we're going to

do and what we need to do. And so you can find that show, the Chris Hogan show, any place where you listen to podcasts, Apple, all the Google Play, all the places. so we invite you to come over and check out the show uh you can also find it on sirius xm on mondays and wednesdays in addition there's somewhere else you can find that podcast if you're like me dude do you do you drive into work you listen to podcast radio or just silence? I listen to radio. Good for you. That's a good 18th century guy like myself.

I love it. Occasionally, I listen to podcasts, though, because drive time has become podcast time. And if you want to catch the Chris Hogan Show and Christy Wright and Rachel Cruz and Ken Coleman and, and, and, you can download the Ramsey Network app. This is how you get better in every area of your life. We're talking about the whole gang, right? Dave, Chris, Rachel Cruz, Ken Coleman, Entree Leadership, The Borrowed Future Podcast, all of it, one place.

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It's awesome. All right. All right. We got to keep you out of the sweet tea or something. I don't know what's going on. But listen, if you're out there, you all are calling in. And I have to tell you, I'm going to be honest with you. You are being very open, honest, and real with your questions today. And I have to commend you because these topics aren't easy. When you start to deal with relationships and money, or you start to deal

with money stress that has you really just frustrated and irritated, you have to reach out and don't isolate. I have been a king isolator before, and it is not healthy. It's not the way to go. Reaching out, being able to talk about it, as John mentions, it's so therapeutic. It's so unbelievable when you realize that you don't have to do it alone. And it changes your spirit, and it helps you to have a different outlook on things. And so I want to encourage you out there, because I know a lot of people are at their wits end.

I know a lot of people are frustrated, irritated, and they're tired. And what I want to do is encourage you to just hold on. Hold on just one more day, and reach out, and do something a little bit different. It's going to get better. It is going to get better. I promise you. But what you have to do is not do it alone because sometimes you get tired and you do need somebody that can hold you up.

You really do. And so I want to encourage you out there. If you're at that point to reach out, call a friend, be able to talk about the stress. If it's a money situation, it can get fixed. I've seen people clean up a whole lot of stuff. If it's a relationship issue, it can get fixed. I've seen people clean up a whole lot of stuff. If it's a relationship issue, it can get fixed. It can get fixed. I promise you, relationships can heal. They can grow. They can start over. They can take new roads, grow new roots. Don't quit. Yeah, that's exactly right.

And I don't know why. It was just something in my heart that said we needed to say that because I think there's somebody out there that's sitting and they're going, I'm just tired. Chris, there's millions. You know, I'm tired, man. And it doesn't look like it's getting any better. And so and if they're alone, man, that's the thing. I can't imagine, you know, where you're feeling that way and you don't have anybody else to kind of just give you a perk up. Nobody to kind of just say, hey, it's going to be all right.

It's not only that, Chris. It's that you feel like you're a loser. You feel alone. You feel like you're weak. You feel like I'm broken. I didn't do something right. And, man, like I've said before, I grew up inas as an introvert in in in houston and then in west texas that's where they grow the cows that they get the leather from to build the straps on our boots that

i'm supposed to pull myself up by and the chief lie is that i can do this alone but i'm supposed to do this alone we are not designed for that. Yeah. No, dude, the Westerns, we need other people. You got to have it. You've got to. So I, I, I've got a YouTube video out where I talk about the four people you need in your life. You need a coach, you need a mentor, you need a cheerleader and you need a friend. And obviously you can have multiple people be in those roles, but you need to have one of those four in your life. And I'll take it a step further. And I'd encourage you to say you need to be one of those four in someone's life. Now, hear me with this, because I don't care how much debt you have, how tight something is.

I don't care how alone you feel. If you are being a coach, a cheerleader, a mentor, a friend, that means you're not doing life alone. That's right. That means you've taken the focus off of your situation enough to look at someone else's and go, I'm going to cheer them on. Right. It's the best way to get a new attitude is to find someone else to reach out and to grab or to cheer on and watch what happens.

Right. We get too caught up in ourselves and too caught up in replaying the mistakes. And I'm going to tell you, old hurt will do new harm to your new day. I'll tell you that one more time. If you wake up and you grab that mistake, that old hurt will do new harm to your new day. So what we have to do is make some decisions, right? And do like in the movie Frozen, baby. I'm going to let some stuff go so my hands are freed up to grab some things that I need in my life.

And that's people. And you need your faith. You need people. And you need a purpose in the direction you're going i think sometimes since we sit on the radio chris there's there's you can hear this you can be mowing your yard and this is pumping into your head and you and i can sound like we got it all together and that we're robots yeah so i think it's fair to say this morning i got up at 5 45. I did my morning weird routine.

And then I drove across the city of Nashville. And I met, because we got to do it social distance, I met in the backyard of a man named, I'll call him Dr. Steve on the radio, that I have given permission to speak into my life. And we sat on his back porch and we had coffee together. And we talked about philosophy and how my marriage is doing, how his marriage is doing. I have to do this stuff every day. I've got to do this stuff with a mentor every week, somebody I trust, because my mental health demands it. My spiritual health.

I'll become a crappy husband again. I'll become a crappy parent again if I don't intentionally get other people in my life that will speak wisdom and hope and optimism and truth to me. Dude, you're absolutely right. Listen, I did it twice this week. Sat down with a pastor yesterday to have lunch to talk about kind of being the best kind of dad I can be for the sake of my boys. And at the same time, sitting down talking to one of my coaches and really talking about kind of the mental process, the game plan, right? And so, listen. we're not robots. We're doing it.

We are not robots. And you got feelings. And I'm going to tell you something. If you're not reaching out, connecting with some people, you need to get started on it. And do me a favor. When you connect with your friends and you have some conversations, let's go a little bit deeper than the sports team. It's hot out here, man. Because they ain't even playing right now.

And no, not the weather, but just you know, I put some buddies. They know when I call, they know we're about to get real. Because I'm asking, how are you? What can I pray for you about? What are you struggling with? Those kinds of things. And it just helps people to know they're not alone. So you go first. Don't wait

on your friends to call you. You go first. Make a list of five friends you're going to check in with over this weekend. And I want you to call them. I want you to call you. You go first. Make a list of five friends you're going to check in with over this weekend. And I want you to call them. I want you to text them. People have health issues. People have heart issues. People have emotional things going on.

Reach out and check on them. You go first. And watch what happens. It'll change the spirit of things. Boy, I tell you. Oh, boy. We can talk about this all day. All day.

People need it. So, listen. We're out here for you. If you want to call, you can call us. The number to call is 888-825-5225 or find us at Ramsey Show. We'd love to hear from you. We're going to go to the phone. We've got Caleb on the line.

Caleb, how can we help you? Hey, Chris and John. How are you doing today? Doing great, buddy. What's on your mind? Hey, so I've got a question and just asking for some advice. So this is actually the first time I'm calling, so if I sound nervous, It's okay.

It's all right. So my question is, should I continue working on my current job that is small and is struggling to scale up, not necessarily because of COVID, but just in general? I did join this company with the intentions to help them grow the company, as well as then give me experience in my career. Now I am going to be married soon. I'm actually getting married next weekend.

Hey, Caleb. Hey, Caleb. You're a Texan? Yes. I am too. So I'm going to hold you over. Let's wait until the break, and we'll come back after the break. I want to make sure we get this full question out.

Yes, we do. We want to hear it and want to know what's on your mind and your heart so we can give you some guidance. Stay tuned, people. We're coming back with Caleb. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. Thank you. hello everyone we are back and we are excited to be with you you've got chris hogan and john deloney co-hosting with me this hour and before we went to break we were talking on the line to caleb and caleb wanted to know if he should

stay with his current employer or move on. Is that the gist of it, Caleb? Yeah, that's, that's pretty much the gist of it. Okay. So what is,

what do you mean move on? Do you have something else lined up or is another company talking to you or are you just ready for change? So not necessarily another company, but I think just getting in the mindset of moving on. Whenever I joined this company, I joined with the intention of like helping it grow as well as them giving me experience. And so I guess I want to know if I should stay committed to that or like I said, move

on because I am getting married. So I'm not sure if I want to put my wife in the same situation I was when I was single. What do you mean? What do you mean by that? Just because I said it's – well, I don't know if I mentioned this. It's not a big company. It is somewhat of a startup company. Okay. So I'm not getting paid as much as I would want to. I'm getting paid a decent amount right now, but probably not enough to be able to support a wife and a family in the future.

Okay, gotcha. So you all, do you have any kids yet? No. No, we're just about to get married. Yeah. Okay. And is she working full time? No, she's working part time.

Is she going to school? Yes, she is going to school. Okay. So you're thinking of the future, right? You're thinking down the road. What are you making right now? So right now I'm making $30,000, but I did just have a conversation with my boss to bump me up to $35,000. Okay.

$35,000 a year. All right. And what do you think you need to make to be able to support a family? I would say around the $40,000. Okay. All right. So here's what I like about what you've done. You kind of have a ballpark awareness.

You said this current company is treating you well, correct? Yeah, they are treating me well. Okay. There's some hesitation in there. What's the problem? Well, I think when I started with this company, I was an intern. I worked my way up. It has been quite difficult to get to where I'm at right now as far as pay-wise goes.

Okay. Okay. So you think they're being a little stingy with the money? Yeah. I guess I could say that, yeah. Okay. So what's out there for you that's better is what I would tell you. You know, as you dig into that to try to do your research now,

I think it's great for you to be open and honest and have a conversation with your employer and your job. But ultimately, you know, don't wait on people to read your mind. Like, go in and have a conversation. Ask what is it you can do to help further advance the company. Let them know, hey, I'm getting married and we're looking to start a family. And so I'm looking to be able to grow my income. And I think, John, when you have that upfront honest conversation, everybody can get on the same page. Yeah, and one of the – Caleb, how old are you, man?

I am 24. Okay. So simply put, in San Antonio, Texas right now, there's a jillion jobs that's going to pay you $35,000 or $40,000. You could go right now and figure that out and find it. Okay? You know that. I know that. People in San Antonio know that.

Right? So that's number one. Number two is you've got to sit down and do the hard work with you and this person you're marrying, and you've got to find out what the word, and this is a word that we don't do well with, Chris. Uh-oh. The word enough is what financial amount because when i was 24 whatever the number i was making just needed to be more yeah and then it needed to be more and then i made this much money and then i just within three to six months was like man i'm not you know this guy's making it just keeps going yeah and what i want to tell you is I've gotten to a place where I make more money

than my granddad could have ever imagined. Didn't have the mindset to understand this. That's right. You know what I'm thinking about? Man, I wonder if I move this around. You've got to have a dollar amount that I need, that I'm going to feel valued. I'm a part of a company that loves me and that values me and has grown me from an intern to where I'm at right now.

I walked in. They gave me five grand more right off the bat. Or you've got to have the courage to say, I'm good. I need to move on. And here's the deal. Moving on, you don't know how the next company is going to treat you. That's right. You don't know how they value you.

And so, Caleb, here's what I'm going to do, buddy. I'm going to give you Ramsey Plus. It's going to give you an opportunity to get plugged in, to really kind of get on the same page and see money use the every dollar use the app all the tracking tools you're going to get a chance to kind of really get plugged in on your money i love the fact that you are zeroed in as a 24 year old and thinking about the future brother that gets me no no i and so but so far ahead of me man he is really far ahead. And so I'm proud of you.

I just want you to get plugged in with Ramsey Plus. Get plugged into the community. Get in there. Talk. Talk to people and learn. I think it's going to be so important and valuable for you as you start to move forward in life. And sit down with your fiance. Chris, I love the way you say it.

Dream in HD. Yes. Draw a picture of what you want your life to look like at 25 and at 26 put a deadline on if i'm not at this point if i'm not contributing in this way with this company then i'm going to move on when my wife graduates we're going to move on whatever that looks like but be intentional about it otherwise the money's never enough the job's never satisfied enough it just keeps never being enough because that finish line just keeps moving on no you're absolutely right.

And it's a fictitious line. There's a there there. It really is. And people, I remember, I'm going to tell them myself. See, you got me all feeling all vulnerable and stuff. I remember back in my 20s, I'd say, all right, listen, I'm going to make more. And then when I make more, I'm going to get more serious. Hold on.

And then when I make more, I'm going to get more serious. You know what you end up doing? You end up putting off getting serious. Forever. Yeah, you really do. And so don't do that. If that's you, if you're thinking like I used to think, I want you to shut that down today and go, I'm going to handle whatever it is I'm making right now, $20,000, $30,000, $40,000, whatever it is,

I'm going to manage that to the best of my ability. And watch what happens. It'll prepare you for things to be able to grow. And then when you get a raise, you'll actually get some more mileage. Then you realize, I got some knucklehead stuff in my past I need to get out. And when I get out of debt, I give myself a raise. And I didn't have to go ask anybody for more money. I didn't have to go lobby for more money.

I controlled it. And that's the mindset you have to have ask anybody for more money. I didn't have to go lobby for more money. I controlled it. And that's the mindset you have to have with getting yourself out of debt. So that's the deal. You've got to get serious about it, get plugged in, and you can make some progress. Get it, Caleb. No, you can do it. All right, listen, we've got time for one more call. This call board is lit up.

It is. It is. I'm going to keep taking them. We've got Kyle in Chicago. Kyle, how can we help you? Hey there. So my wife and I are in our late 20s, 27, 29. Our house is between 90 and 95 a year.

Okay. And we're pretty much on baby step three. We just actually finished our six-month emergency fund. Good. Thanks. We want to look for saving for a house. from our emergency fund. Congratulations. Thanks. We want to look for saving for a house. And so as we're looking forward to that,

I mean, I love the idea of the down-touch plan. Uh-oh, your phone's going in and out, buddy. It seems like a great idea. And so I'm just trying to think, you know. We're losing you, brother. Yeah, buddy, you have to call us back. Listen, you're getting yourself out of debt. That's awesome.

Being able to save up for a home. We call that baby step 3B is where you save up for a down payment. And so these are all things that are necessary. I encourage people to really get a vision of what it is you're looking to buy. And then let's have a game plan. Let's start to talk about it. But I need to say this. Renting is not a sin, okay?

I'm renting right now. Yeah, renting is not a sin. It allows you to be able to regroup between sales or buys or whatever it is, but you just want a game plan overall. And so, again, thinking forward, being proactive, these are all things that you have to do for your past. How much do we save up for a house, Chris? Well, bottom line, it depends on how much house you're looking to buy. I want you to have a minimum of 10% down for a down payment.

Okay? Minimum of 10. I prefer you go in with a 20% down payment so you avoid PMI. Right. That's private mortgage insurance. That does not protect you. It protects the lender. It can add $150 to $300 in payment a month, which is absolutely

absurd when you think about the life of a loan. And so we've got to go into it with our eyes wide open, people. And when you do this, you don't make emotional decisions. We make business decisions because those are the things that matter. Now, John, tell everybody where they can find more about you and all the things you've got going on. You can find me on the interwebs and on the computers and all of the zeros and ones world and the matrix at John Deloney. Yeah. Go to John Deloney.com slash John Deloney. Yeah.

And again, I told you all earlier, anxiety. He's got this article on there that you can check out on Dave Ramsey.com. Where can they find you, Christopher? Well, they can find me at Chris Hogan, three 60.com. All right. Listen, I need to thank our producer, James Childs, associate producer, Kelly Daniel. I want to thank all of you all for tuning in. John, thank you for hanging out with me, brother.

Awesome with you, my man. It was fun to be able to tag team and hit these questions. And listen, stay tuned. Try to find us another time. We'd love to have you tune in. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. Thank you.