The Ramsey Show - App - My Partner and I Are Not on the Same Page About Finances (Hour 1)

Episode Date: March 11, 2021

Debt, Home Buying, Relationships Sign Up for a FREE trial of Ramsey+ TODAY: https://bit.ly/31ricKt Tools to get you started:  Debt Calculator: https://bit.ly/2QIoSPV  Insurance Coverage Checkup: https://bit.ly/2BrqEuo  Complete Guide to Budgeting: https://bit.ly/2QEyonc  Check out more Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/2JgzaQR 

🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studio, this is The Ramsey Show, where America hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money. I'm John Deloney, joined here by best-selling author, Ramsey personality, and all-around good human being, Rachel Cruz. How are you? Doing great, John. Yeah? Family's good? Yeah, we're good.

Just surviving, you know? For real? Sort of thriving, too. Sort of thriving. Yeah, it's almost the weekend. Can you sort of thrive? It's almost the weekend. Thrive sounds like a...

Yeah, I don't know if you can sort of thrive. It is what it is. We're there. We're there. Very cool. Well, we are taking your calls on life and money and relationships and all the things that we can help you with. Rachel's really smart, and I will help drive today.

So give us a shout at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Let's go to Carlos in Tampa, Florida. Carlos, what's going on? Hey, how are you guys doing? Thank you for taking my call. You bet, man. Thanks for calling. What's up? So I came from South America. I married my wife here in the United States. We have a baby five month old now, and now we're trying to figure out what

to do next. My plan was to get into a mortgage and get a house, I came with no debt, but my wife has an $80,000 in student loans. And right now we have enough to pay it off. And I'm talking about like $95,000. And the student loan is $80,000. But I'm trying to figure out if we should prioritize that instead of thinking about getting into a mortgage and i'm just getting trying to get that advice from you guys carlos you're a stud man how did you guys accumulate 95 000 uh cyber security man it that made it my wife was hard she said

you said it like it was like a like a You were like, cybersecurity, bro. We got it. That's awesome, man. Hey, those tech jobs, they're paying. And she's an elementary school teacher as well, so that also helps. That's awesome. That's fantastic, man. So great. Well, Carlos, number one, congrats on the baby. I know your life has just been turned upside down in all the most wonderful ways, so congrats.

So our rule of thumb here when we talk about buying a home is that we say we want you completely out of debt and a three to six months worth of an emergency fund. So your expenses that total three to six months have that saved in the bank and then save up for a down payment from 10 to 10 to 20 percent for that down payment. So those are that that's the tactical, the what. Now the why behind all of that is that you'll realize soon after you are in a home and own a home that a home ownership is extremely expensive. Things happen.

I mean, just the other day, our gutters screwed up. We had an ice storm in Nashville and all of our gutters filled with ice. Half of them fell off the house. I mean, it's just... I had to get a new roof. We got it inspected, high-fived, and then

two months later, we got to get a brand new roof. We went to the crawl space last weekend before our date and an inch of water in the crawl... I mean, stuff just happens when you own a home and it's expensive. And so, what ends up happening is a lot of people rush into home ownership because it's kind of the dream, right? Like, you own a home and it's exciting and it's fun, but you have no money.

You have debts and you have no money. And people go in and end up that this house becomes a burden and a curse rather than the blessing that it should be. So, Carlos, if I woke up in your shoes tomorrow, I'd write a check for the student loans. I'd get out. It's going to hurt, Carlos. It's not fun,

but listen, but it is fun because at the other end of it though, you have no payments, you have nothing. And then if you want to bump the rest of that 15 grand up, depending on your expenses, save that and then save a little bit on the side. You guys are killing it for a down payment.

Then I would buy a home because I promise if you go this route, even though it sounds just like the simple formula, you will move into that home. And when something comes up, it's more like an inconvenience than a complete crisis. Right. One question I had on that is, should we be waiting or trying to wait for loan forgiveness?

You know that they're giving away some kind of forgiveness for teachers. Is that something I should be looking forward to? Well, there's talk of student loan forgiveness from D.C. Pieces of it? Yes. But honestly, here's the thing about the legislation, all of that. It's not like the president of the United States can just wave a wand and it happens. There's a due process it has to go through to actually let that happen.

And we don't know if it will, when it will. So in my mind, Carlos, I don't want to depend on Washington, D.C. to change my life or waiting on them to do things. I'm going to control what I can control. And right now, you can control a lot. You yourself, without D.C.,

can do a lot for your family and not to get too political but they promise stuff i mean if you remember 10 12 years ago they said if you went to school and took out loans they would forgive those loans if you worked in a certain sector now so not happening carlos it's i had a ringside seat watching some of the most brilliant minds combined with some of the most extraordinary young men and women who went to law school. And I was an administrator at a law school, and many of them chose to go into the public sector to help the least of these in our communities because of the public forgiveness program. And then it was year six, year seven, after practicing,

when suddenly they would apply to have these loans forgiven, and they were either just completely ignored or rejected, right? And here's the other part, Carlos, and this is just me. I'm a guy who signed up for a bunch of loans. We got too many degrees in our house between me and my wife. We signed up for a bunch of loans. We didn't know what we were doing, but we did. We saw the numbers.

They just weren't real, and we felt like, whoa, that's a problem for a future Don to handle. I have a integrity. I've got an ethical issue in my soul. I told somebody, I'm going to pay you back if you help me get through school. You guys, Carlos, y'all are of means. Y'all figured it out. Y'all have worked really hard and you've got this money here. For me, it's a matter of, you know, we can, we don't need to wait on the government. We're not going to wait on the government. They may or may not, who here for me it's a matter of you know we can we don't need to wait on the government we're not going to wait on the government they may or may not who knows and it's going to come with strings you got to have um you know public service all this other stuff you guys have worked hard you told somebody hey if you give us this money we're going to pay

you back pay them back pay them back and then be done with it wipe your hands of it you'll have in a few months you'll save up that emergency fund. And then it's off to the races on getting that dream house. I think that's a great point, too. And, I mean, just to applaud you, Carlos. I mean, you guys are killed. I mean, he's from, what did he say, Costa Rica? From, yeah, South America. Is that right?

Or South America, yeah. I mean, came in, killed it. I mean, you're doing amazing, Carlos. And you guys can do this. Yeah, you can do it. You can do it. The numbers are here. And you're only going to go up from here.

That's the exciting part is, like you said, you have the meat. Like, it's there. Because you did can do this. Yeah, you can do it. You can do it. The numbers are here and you're only going to go up from here. That's the exciting part is like you said, you have the meat, like it's there because you did what was right. You did what's right. Yeah, so hope that helps, Carlos. And probably more important

than that call is this. You mentioned in that last call right before a date, y'all were hanging out in the crawl space. I have to explore this with you. We can go here. It's not that interesting. No, Winston.

My dates are different. Me and Sheila's dates are different. We don't start in the attic. Winston has a crawl space that's like his man room, like down under the house, like where his tool bench is, like the shock. In the crawl space? Well, they say crawl space. You can stand up in it.

Oh, okay. It's the stand space. The stand space? The, the crawl space, you can stand up in it. Oh, okay. So I guess it's technically not... It's the stand space? The stand space. The basement? There's mouse traps down there. The basement? No, it's not a basement

because it doesn't have heating and air and all that. Like it's... Anyways, it's not that interesting. Anyways, he went down to check on a mouse trap if you really want to know

because there were mice down there and he was going to get... See how his mouse trap went? Inch of water. Inch of water. So you got to go get... I love learning about my friend's marriages

because they're so different than mine our reservations are in 30 minutes he's like I gotta go get a pump and I was like sounds like the beginning of a classic romcom to me this is a classic romcom

hey we got a date everybody let's head down to the crawl space it's called I I don't know I don't know money and relationships

888-825-5225 give us a shout and we will walk along with you. Glad you're with us. This is The Ramsey Show. You've got a lot on your plate. A job, your home, your marriage, and your growing family. While you're enjoying the present, you can't help but think about your future and your finances. As you explore your options, consider Christian Healthcare Ministries, or CHM,

for your health care. Their generous maternity program and budget-friendly monthly programs have been a blessing to members welcoming children into their families. Visit chministries.org slash budget to see if it's right for you. That's chministries.org slash budget. This is the Ramsey Show. I'm John Deloney, joined here by bestselling author and good friend, Rachel Cruz. And when you're taking your calls on life and money. 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225. The board's lit up, and Kelly's waiting for your call. Let's go to Adam in Syracuse, New York.

Adam, what's going on? Oh, not much, Dr. Dean. Just getting back from work. Calling because I was wondering how to get my wife on board with everything that Dave says. You know, I've been doing the program since late January, and I got about $40,000 in debt, not including her vehicle. With her vehicle, it would be about $55,000. And I just want to change my family tree and be able to purchase our first home by next year.

Oh man well I appreciate your heart dude and congratulations on turning this first corner here. Rachel you've you've heard this question for years and years talking with couples. Yeah so Adam what's her biggest hesitation? What what causes her not to want to get on board? Well, she works full-time as a nurse at the VA, and she's also going to school for her RN, and I think she's really focused on that, which I'm super proud of her for. But I really don't know her hesitation. When I first mentioned Dave to her,

she got on online and read some negative reviews. Those are out there for all of us. I'm like, believe what you want to believe. I go, this guy is making absolute sense to me, and I'm with it. It's just hard to do it by yourself. Yeah, you're right. It's almost impossible to do it by yourself if two of you are not on the same page. Okay, so it doesn't sound like she is, because I talked to some people and the spouse is like, oh, I don't want to budget because I just want to have fun and not be accountable.

Or some people say, I just want to continue to do what I do because I deserve it. You know, I mean, there's kind of some entitlement issues that I hear a lot, but I don't hear that from her. I just hear that she's skeptical of the process. Right. I mean, she's the saver and I'm the spender. Yeah. I limit myself on everything now.

So I wonder if it just sounds like a really big thing to bite off for her because she has all these other things she's doing and she's thinking, oh, this thing is going going to take over but what you both have to understand is that yes when we say work as a married couple you definitely work together but one of you naturally is probably going to do more and be more excited than the other like winston he's the nerd in our relationship like he's the one that honestly does the excel he we do every dollar for a monthly but

he has an excel thing to map out the future he always wants to talk about it. He'll want to talk about it. I'm the one that's like, I kind of want to watch The Bachelor. Like, I don't know. Like, you know, that doesn't mean I'm not on board, but I'm not as excited as he is. Or he's the one that pays all of our bills. He does it all, even though I know what's being paid and we're on the same page. So for her, you just need her to, you guys come together and agree, hey, we want to start this process. but the heavy

lifting of the tactical day-to-day can honestly come from you, Adam, and that's okay from our perspective. Adam, how'd you bring it up to her? You know, we were laying in bed one night talking. Yeah, that's your problem right there. Stop, are you serious?

Okay, so you're laying in bed, you roll over, and you flutter your eyelashes at her, and she flutters her eyelashes back at you, and you say, Baby, have I got a deal for you. Is that how that went? Yeah, kind of. Come on, man. You've got to be more smooth than that.

How long have you been married? 11. 11 years? We've been together, yeah, 11 years. Oh, Adam, man. Okay, so a couple things that you said that I want to make sure. We've been together, yeah, 11 years. Oh, Adam, man. Okay, so a couple things that you said that I want to make sure. Are you a schemer?

Have you always had some things? Are you the guy who brings good ideas? She's a saver. She's a nurse. She's working in a hospital. She's predictable. Are you predictable? Yeah, are you the guy with like, hey, listen?

Yeah, I think I am. Are you predictable? Yeah. Are you the guy with like, hey, listen. Yeah. Yeah. I think I am. So when you first called, you talked about her car payment, your debt. And so what I would tell you is you guys have a pronoun problem. And what I mean is if you have a you and a her in a marriage, and then the you is coming to the – oh, I'm sorry. You're not married. Y'all are just together.

Okay. Y'all been together for 11 years? Yeah, we have two children together and we've been together for 11 years. Ah, okay. So if you haven't committed, right? If y'all are just riding this out together in a committed relationship... Why aren't y'all married?

Can I ask? Yeah, you can ask. I think she's afraid of commitment. She's with you for a decade, brother. 11 years. Sounds like she's afraid of you. That could be. That very well could be.

Adam, you know the truth. Is that real? Honestly, I don't know, but you're probably right on the money. here's what i would suggest brother i would suggest sitting down with her and talking about what's the future going to look like when you have two kids when you're not married when you've been together for a decade suddenly the days turn into weeks and the weeks turn into months and suddenly you've been together three years and five years and we'll think about this later and suddenly the future starts to happen in front of you and that's when one of you peels off to go back to school to start trying to create their own

future because we're clearly not on the same page i've got mine you've got yours i'm gonna go make some more money for me so i can get a different car for me and suddenly you're gonna wake up and you're both gonna be sitting on a couch and you're gonna be two inches apart from each other you'll be 2 000 miles away from one another and coming in with something like this program, which is we've got to work super close together, not close together. We have to be one on this deal because it's hard and it is back and forth and months on top of months. And suddenly you wake up and you're a united couple and you're two or three years down the road and you have this entire new trajectory. So when you talk about wanting to change your family tree right now you got two plants in the same

house so at first you got to do is you got to decide we're going to have one tree we're going to do this one thing together and we're going to raise these kids in a certain way we're going to build a future together and a part of building the future together rachel is we're going to do money together right so your heart is right adam Adam. Your spirit is right. Your ideas are right, but they're just out of order right now. And the first thing you've got to do is to circle back to this extraordinary woman you've created a life with for the last decade plus and say, hey, let's make this a unified thing moving forward, right? For sure. And the richness that comes from that, so not just the commitment to say we're going to get married, not just the commitment that we're going to work together for money, not just the commitment that we're going to do parenting together well.

That whole life that you're bringing together, it's almost like all these separate puzzle pieces and you start to bring it together and it is a beautiful thing. While I feel like people dog marriage sometimes. It's stable. Yes, there's something about it that the richness of your life, it increases because there's a level of vulnerability

and unity that you've never experienced before to say hey we're going to be in this together and it's it's something that i feel like is it it enhances your life and it's something about there's something about being tethered in being anchored in not even knowing that anchored in yeah and i'm gonna fall off this mountain sometimes but i'm not gonna die right i may bang up the side of it but i'm anchored in, not even telling, anchored in. And I'm going to fall off this mountain sometimes, but I'm not going to die, right? I may bang up the side of it, but I'm anchored into something, right?

Yeah. And somebody may shove me off. She may shove me off, but we are anchored in here, right? And yeah, it's circling back to, we've got to be on the same page, working together. How hard is it?

So you guys, how long have y'all been married? 11. 11 years, okay. There's a myth that all of a sudden you wake up one day and you've figured it out. And there's no more discussions, no more eye rolls, no more whatever when it comes to budgets. Right. That's not true, right? No.

No. I mean, I think the logistical side of the budget goes pretty quick. Like the budget meeting, quote unquote, like we'll talk when we do it. And it sounds like, oh, of course she does. But we really, really do. Before the month begins, we sit down like, hey, let's look at March. Okay, well, we're going to the beach this week on spring break. We're going to do this and this.

And you start kind of mapping out. And so all of that takes eight to 10 minutes. We do that fast. But it's the other parts of knowing, being known by each other in a deep way. Because money, it reveals a lot of who you are. And so working that closely with your spouse, yeah, it can create some moments where you're like, oh, I mean, I'll be honest, I love Amazon right now.

I know people hate Amazon, but I'm like, I can't stop. And it's under his, he created the account years ago whenever we got Prime. And so we obviously just share the account. But I know every time I buy something, he gets a notification and I'm always like even though it's in the budget and I know it

I'm the spender and he's the saver so even those things and I'm like hey just heads up I'm getting a new pan because our nonstick is wicking out

because you know we really need a new house and we need a new pan but it creates it just creates the conversation that's right which is what I love

so for those of you out there who are three years in, five years in, it does get easier, gets more routine, but it always brings you back to a conversation. That's right. Right. That's right. We had one attractive supply this week, me and my wife. Oh, we'll hear about that coming up next. We won't.

We won't. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey guys, Rachel Cruz here. Ever feel like you'll never save money or pay off all your debt? We know 2020 didn't help, but it's a new year and you can hit reset with your money. It's time to focus and get debt out of your life so you can have more money to save and spend worry-free.

We're here to help. Ramsey Plus is our step-by-step plan that gets you quick wins so you can make faster progress on your debts. And that debt is gone for good. You get more money back in your pockets. The best part is you can try Ramsey Plus for free. And once you become a member, you'll get a free federal e-file with Ramsey Smart Tax and the audio book of my brand new bestseller, Know Yourself, Know Your Money. You'll have everything you need to finally get your money under control. To become a member of Ramsey Plus, the audio book of my brand new bestseller, Know Yourself, Know Your Money. You'll have everything

you need to finally get your money under control. To become a member of Ramsey Plus, go to DaveRamsey.com slash Ramsey Plus. That's DaveRamsey.com slash Ramsey Plus. Or call our Ramsey concierge team at 888-825-5225. I'm John Deloney, joined here by Rachel Cruz. And it looks like on the debt-free stage, we've got a beautiful couple. We've got Jared and Stephanie from Las Cruces, New Mexico. And I think I know what this means. How are you two good folks?

We're doing great. How are you guys doing today? Outstanding. Outstanding. All right. So tell us about Las Cruces. Las Cruces is a wonderful community that is about 1,400 miles away. We drove all the way here.

You drove all the way here. How long did that take you? It's 20 hours. We broke it up in a couple days, though. Good for you. It was his birthday on Monday, so this is his present. Oh, for your debt-free scream to be your present. I love it. Very cool. And so you're here to do your debt-free scream. How much have you paid off?

We paid off $140,466. $140,466. $140,466. And how long did it take you? 15 months. Whoa. Did you sell a house? No. Nope.

We didn't get to own a house. You just crushed it. Okay, so what was your income? What was your rate of income during this time? So we started at $188,403, and we increased it to about $206,512. $206,512. Are you the nerd? I am the nerd.

I'm hearing all these very specific dollars. I was like, man, I'd be rounding up. Good for you. Good for you. So $188,000 to $206,000, that's still a lot of money to pay off in a year. That means you are making an extraordinary income, and you're still doing rice and beans, right? Yeah. That's right. I mean, we both work in healthcare and

this last year, there was all kinds of work to be done anyway, so we were able to pick up shifts and work extra wherever that may be. Stephanie is a nurse in the ICU, so she picked up an extra 12-hour shift for about 20 weeks, I'd say.

Wow. Thank you. Thank you for your work, though. I appreciate that. So take us back 15 months. What in the world happened? So I'll take it back a couple years ago. I mean, about three years ago, I'm a pharmacist, and I was doing a pharmacy rotation through the rural area parts of New Mexico. And part of that was I got to stay with my uncle during one of those Mexico. And, uh, uh, one part of that was I got to stay with my uncle during one of those rotations. And, uh, he was well into, uh, Dave Ramsey stuff. And he, uh, kind of, he knew that I had a large chunk of change to pay off with that, with the Salome loan. And he's like, you know, have you ever really thought about what you're going to do at that point? And I,

I really kind of brushed him by for that moment, my uncle John. And, you know, I picked up Dave Ramsey's book, The Total Money Makeover, about maybe six months after that. And I was absolutely hooked right away. Man, that book was fire, man. It was just incredible. And so about, of course, about two years ago, my wife and I at that time were not quite married yet, but I had mentioned to her kind of the stuff that I had been reading into, and I was kind of not wholly going into paying off the debt because, I mean, I was still learning what that was about.

And she initially was not on page, but we got married, and we both put our bank accounts together and just were on fire from there. So this sounds like the start of a joke. A pharmacist sits down to explain something to a nurse, right? How did that conversation go where you rolled your eyes and you were like, no. There was a little bit of eye rolling, but we had a few road trips to Albuquerque where we listened to the Dave Ramsey show together. And then I was kind of hooked after that because I got to hear it for myself.

But right a couple days after we got married, Jaren took me to my bank and used all of our wedding gift money, and we paid off my credit card. So that was kind of my introduction to what our marriage was going to be like. All that money that we got from the wedding was just sent away, and she just was like,

eek, I can't believe it. So how does it feel now because you guys started marriage this whole new way of looking at money i mean you did it all at the same time so now you're on this side of it you've been married a little over a year you're debt free it was a crazy it was a crazy time um we were dealing with the pandemic like everyone else trying to figure that out working working as a nurse through that was difficult um and then we were trying to figure out budgeting for the first time figuring out marriage for the first time so it was a lot of firsts for us and it was difficult but um we definitely praise god for all the support that he's given us and this was all him that's all we

that's what we wanted to say when we that's why she was working 12-hour shifts it's like i'm good i'll be out i'm'm going to go do this. So what kind of debt was this? Obviously, pharmacy school is really expensive, so student loans. What else? My student loan, because I had gotten out of nursing school a while before that, but I was just paying the minimum payments. I thought I would never be out of debt. That was my mindset until Jaron kind of showed me that we could do something different.

And then a little credit card in between. Mostly selling. That's a wedding. Yes, it a little credit card in between. Mostly selling me. That's a wedding. Yes. Took over. That's awesome. That's awesome. So what, I mean, you guys, the beautiful thing about your story is that you're starting all

of this together. Where we talked to some couples, we just took a call last segment, right? And they're together, but they're not working together and they've already created these kind of money habits in their own lane. So you guys started from the beginning. So what encouragement do you have for couples that are dating? Maybe they're engaged to get on the same page. Like how important is it, do you think, to be one in the subject when you get married?

Absolutely. I mean, I could not have done this without Stephanie. You know, this, I mean, this was all kind of something that I had brought to her attention. But if it had been just me and not her, I mean, there's always that wedge that's always going to be there. And that is something that we didn't want for our marriage. We wanted to go into our marriage knowing that we don't have to worry about the money as an issue. If we kept our bank account separate, it would have been a little bit more, you know, there's more of a chance of it to cause an issue or trouble.

I mean, you guys know the rates of divorce. I mean, that's not something that we wanted to be in our marriage. And we knew what it did. No, no, no, it's right. No, you're exactly right. And two, last question with marriage, because I think we did a thing, money and marriage. So this is always fascinating. I love talking to married couples about it because would you say your your marriage

is stronger now than it would have been yes I I think that the the most important thing a part of this is I mean there's a whole grind that goes about being able to pay off this debt and um and I I've absolutely leave lean on Stephanie and a lot of the things that we were able to do. But God, oh my gosh, like there's times that, you know, you're just watching your paycheck go straight towards the government. And it's, I mean, we're living on much less than what even Stephanie made. And it's hard. It's incredibly hard. It's just sometimes people are like why why can't we you know

go out to eat like we used to that's something we really enjoy and um but i mean when you give it to god when you just absolutely just let him hand help you handle your finances because we are his managers it's his money um it it does get you over that hill and it's just that extra boost and that extra stone to lean on because he's just always there for you. And I just want to add, it just runs over into every other aspect of your life. So I started kind of budgeting with food because overeating is an easy thing to do. And I was able to lose 20 pounds during this.

And then, of course, we started budgeting our time with God more. We need to make sure that we're always spending time with God every day. And so that's course, we started budgeting our time with God more. Like, we need to make sure that we're always spending time with God every day. And so that's something that we do now, too. And we have grown closer to God,

to each other, become stronger people. Spiritually. It affects it all. Yeah, it's amazing. This finance has nothing to do with it, but we've also grown

spiritually because of our decision to go The discipline, right? Discipline in one area, it does, it trickles through. That's awesome. Well, I'm ready. So we... I'm ready, too.

I can't wait for y'all. I'm so excited. Paid off $140,466 in 15 months, making between $188,000 to $206,000. A better marriage, better health, better spiritual life. Man, they did it. Jaren and Stephanie, when you're ready. Count it down. Let's hear it.

Three, two, one. All glory to God. We're dead free! Amazing. Amazing. Incredible. I mean, incredible. Can you imagine driving up to get your medication, and your pharmacist drives up in an 85 Camry, and you think, what are you doing? And he says, I'm changing everything, man.

How cool is that? Doing it all. And that's what I love, too, because you sometimes hear about these high-paying jobs and these high earners, and they're just living that. They're living to the very top of what they make. They're living in fantasy. And they said, you know what? We're going to scale down.

For one year. For a year. For 15 months. It's pretty amazing. 15 months and everything is different now. What a great couple. Yeah. No more 12-hour shifts.

This is going to be fun, fun, fun for them. Thank you for joining us. This is The Ramsey Show. I'm John Pelloni, joined here with Rachel Cruz, and we are taking your calls on money and life. 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225. Let's go to Mark in Washington, D.C.

Mark, what's going on? Hey, guys. Thanks for taking my call. I feel fortunate to be able to talk to you and actually feel fortunate about the situation I'm in, but first time in my life having a little bit of extra money is causing me some stress as well, so it's not all roses. There you go.

Hey, this is a good call to take, so what's up, man? It's a good call. Here's the picture. I'm 44, hoping to retire at 60. I'm a wife and two kids, 8 and 10. About $100,000 in the bank, $700,000 in retirement, 401K, SEP IRA, HSA brokerage, that kind of thing. I have a pretty good income. Over the past couple of years, it's pretty much tripled.

Wow. It's been about $350,000 to $450,000. Yeah, yeah. Just changed jobs, still in the same profession, but- What do you do, man? Just a better compensation. I'm a surgeon. Okay.

So you don't mess around, huh? You know, I was hoping to get on the radio soon because I have a case at 4 o'clock, but we're good. I have a small case. I'm going to be on time, so it's okay. You're replacing a knee as we talk, man. You're a talented guy, Mark. So what's up? So anyway, Mark. So what's up? So anyway, yeah, so the only debt I have, med school, and I've been reluctant to pay it down.

It's at 1.75%. Started out at about $200,000. I got one to one left. Mortgage house is about 1.1 and down to 550 on that. Refinanced recently about 2.25%. That's my only debt. No credit cards, no cars, nothing like that. So recently I came across a bonus for work for 2020. As the last couple mentioned, 2020, terrible in general, but for healthcare workers, it did give us an opportunity to earn a little bit more. So I came across a work

bonus, about $169,000. And where I'm struggling, and I'm not trying to say I'm in a terrible situation, but I have bouncing around in my head, how much do I keep in the bank? I've never started a 529. How much should I put in a 529? Do I do a 457B? Dump it all into a brokerage account. Do I look at long-term care? So I'm in that position, and I just sort of can't figure out what to do. You got it, man. Well, thank you so much. Number one, you keep using very passive language.

You just, like, were walking on the street and stumbled into a bonus. My guess is you worked your butt off in some really scary situations. You were there when people were hurting, and you earned that bonus, and I'm grateful for all the work you have done, and I'm grateful for your wife holding things together while you've been working like bananas this year. So you earned the bonus. For sure.

I have worked behind closed doors with doctors, with their coaching folks through mental health challenges, through relationship challenges and whatnot. And I'll tell you something that's always been a mystery to me is the love affair between a doctor, a medical practitioner, and their student loans. You guys love them. You love to hang on to them and pet them and sing to them as though y'all are in

love and here's what i think it is i've got i've got one person that i i work with now whose kids are in college still has his student loans right loves him deep in his heart right and i we i give him a hard time about it but it comes down i, to looking at this as a math problem instead of a psychology problem. And so if I'm you, and Rachel, hop in here. Yeah, sure. I would take that $165,000, and I would pay off my med school before the day is over today. I'd pay it off. I would be free from all of that, and then I would start considering going down the rabbit hole, getting my house paid off, and then moving forward there.

And kids college. Yeah, I was going to ask, Mark, what causes you? Do you relate to what John just said? Like, what causes you to keep the $120,000 around? Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, it's just the leverage of the 1.75%. I have this challenge, you know, in my life to meet somebody that has a lower interest rate on their student debt. And I haven't come across that person yet, you know, in my life to meet somebody that has a lower interest rate on their

student debt. And I haven't come across that person yet. You know, I'm out of med school about 20 years, 30 year loans, but I just feel like I can beat that rate. It doesn't weigh on me. You know, having that, having that burden, it really doesn't. My wife's totally fine with it. I just feel like I can beat that rate. Yes. Beat that return. So I think that, like you're saying, you're hitting on the math stuff and you don't feel like it's weighing on you and all that. And you're in a great position. So honestly, you're not losing sleep at night over this thing.

You're not mathematically because it's a small percentage of everything you have. tell you, Mark, if you paid it off today and you woke up tomorrow, I guarantee you there is a level within you spiritually, emotionally, all of it that just is going to exhale just a little bit. You may not even realize it because you've been hanging on to it for so long. So what we teach is getting completely out of debt first and foremost. And so that would mean, yes, just going and paying it off, just getting it out of the way. You have cash in the bank. Earlier in the call, I wrote it down. You have a hundred grand. What was the hundred grand at the very beginning of the call?

Is that cash that you have? I know you have 700 in retirement. Yeah, a hundred thousand just sitting in a savings. Yes, that's great. Okay, so I want you guys to get and see how much is six months worth of living of expenses for you guys.

You're in DC, so it's probably going to be a little bit higher dollar amount than someone living in iowa figure it out what your lifestyle is and keep that so maybe it's that maybe it's a less little more i don't know so put that aside keep that just boring in a boring money market account boring savings account because that's going to be your liquid emergency fund if something happens then i would start to look at your kids college and their ages again are what? 10 and 8. 10 and 8. So I would set up, yep, yes. So you may not even qualify because of your income for an ESA. So you may want to look at a 529 plan and start putting some money away for their college.

I think would be the next best step to look at. And then at the same time, be funding retirement and throw an extra at that house because you have your house halfway paid off, which is amazing. So, I mean, you have an, yeah, like we said, an incredible situation, Mark, and I think you can make a lot of ground financially if you just stay focused. You know, you're doing a couple of things here and there. It's kind of all over, but if you just make these steps and you guys do them, you're going to find progress financially so much faster, I think, than you have. Mark, what kind of surgeon are you?

I'm a cancer surgeon. Cancer surgeon. Oh, wow. And so are you on the front end or are you more in stage four acute care? Well, you know, actually both. As a cancer, as a surgical oncologist, probably about 60% of the surgeries we do, the final diagnosis is actually not cancer. So, you know, these are people that get referred to us. So I'm on the front end, but I'm also, you know, an everyday sort of surgeon working in the office, working in the OR.

So is there a, early on, especially March of 2020, March, April, May, the folks in my sphere, just my buddies and folks that I am connected to, man, they puckered up the elective surgeries overnight. And there were some folks that were really scratching their heads about, man, if we don't open up some of these low-level things, the whole hospital system rolls over because so much of our income is based on come on in. Was that your case too? So it's really interesting, right? So we shut down for six weeks in April and May. The health system, I work for health system. They announced they were losing, publicly announced they were losing about a hundred million a month due to the elective surgery crisis.

So there were, you know, there are places crumbling, sure. And we were concerned about obviously the health system, the patients we take care of, our own livelihoods. But I don't know if you're seeing this in your sphere, but what I have seen is now that people are home, people want their elective surgeries because they don't have to miss work. So I did more surgeries in 2020, even with shutting down for six weeks, than I ever had done any other year in my career. And that trend is continuing. Yes, yes, very cool. So here was where I was aiming, and it rebounded really well for you, which is excellent. The folks that I talked to on the front end of this deal really got scared

because they thought that that election, that elective surgery world was over. And here's what I'm getting at. If you, even if you have this low interest rate and yes, man, you can sit there and give me a spreadsheet and make the math work. And as a surgical oncologist, that's what you do. In your head, probably. Nobody knows risk like you do. Nobody can sit down and say, here's probability.

Here is, I'm going to be the, I'm going to walk into this room and I'm going to make sure somebody stays alive to tomorrow. That's an extraordinary power, for lack of better terms. But I want you to go back to, if you've got no payments, you've got no debt, you've got no stress, if elective surgeries shut off, then you can be all about how do I help other people, not how do I keep from falling apart. Thank you so much, Mark, for your service and for your care, man. We love you. This has been The Ramsey Show. Thanks for joining us, and we'll be back soon right here. Have a friend or family member that needs a daily dose of Ramsey advice in their life?

Let them know about the Ramsey Call of the Day podcast. It's a quick hit of advice about life and money in under 10 minutes. Check out the Ramsey Call of the Day podcast wherever you listen to podcasts.