The Ramsey Show - App - My Wife Went Behind My Back & Financed a Car (Hour 2)

Episode Date: March 1, 2022

Dave Ramsey & George Kamel discuss: George's millennial restaurant hacks, How to tackle student loan debt, Dealing with burnout while working multiple jobs, What to do when you feel financially betrayed in a marriage. Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is done, cash is king, and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. George Campbell is with me as my Ramsey personality is my co-host today. We're taking your calls about your life, your money, your career, your relationships, your job, your everything in your life, marriage, parenting. We talk about all of it right here. Open phones at 888-825-5225 ryan is in salt lake city hey ryan welcome to the ramsey show hey dave and george thanks for taking my call sure what's up so my wife and i are just about

to graduate with our bachelor's degrees my wife actually has uh will have two um at the end of april and i'll have uh one hers will be in nursing and mine will be in exercise and wellness. And I'm about to start chiropractic school in Texas. Now, my main question has to do with how to tackle the student loans of chiropractic school as they come. I've listened to a lot of your shows on YouTube, especially the ones having to do with chiropractic school. I know you don't have the highest thoughts about chiropractic school, but I am anticipating taking about $100,000 to $120,000 in student loans. And the reason that that's lower than what the average would be for chiropractic students is because I've taken about,

I've received about $32,000 in academic scholarships for chiropractic school, and my wife will have a job of about $60,000 a year as a nurse. And so those are my main questions. Okay. Also, I don't know if it matters. It does matter. My savings is about $35,000. Okay. Also, I don't know if it matters. It doesn't matter. My savings is about $35,000. Okay.

How much debt do you guys have from the schooling so far? We currently have no debt up until this first semester of chiropractic school. We took out $10,000. Okay. Why when you had $35,000 in the bank? We wanted to keep it there as a safety blanket if when we got to Texas we wanted to get a house or also keep it there if down the road once I start my business we have it there for startup costs. Okay. Well, I disagree with your strategy.

Number one, I wouldn't buy a house while you're in the middle of all this. You're talking about going $120,000 in debt to go to school, meanwhile buy a house, and meanwhile keep $35,000 to the side to build a business later. No. No. Effectively, what you're doing is you're borrowing money, not for school, but effectively you're borrowing money to keep money in your savings account and you're borrowing money to, to open your business later.

You're borrowing money to butcher down payment on your house. That's effectively what you're doing. So no, if I were you, if I woke up in your shoes and I don't think you're going to do this because I think you're going to do your plan, but, um, uh, so I'm not real sure why you called. But I would take the $35,000 and put it towards chiropractic school. I'd be working while I was in chiropractic school. I'd continue to work on more scholarships.

And your wife's going to be picking up a bunch of overtime to pay for your way through this school. And I'd come out of chiropractic school with no debt and no house. That would be my goal. Yeah, I'm hearing talk about safety and wanting to feel safe. And all of this debt is not putting you in a place of safety. It's putting you at a place of risk. And when you get out, you're going to feel broke, even as a chiropractor, even with a great income, because you're broke, because you're making payments on $130,000 of debt at that point while paying a mortgage payment, by the way,

and property taxes and insurance costs and home maintenance costs. So now's not the time to be buying a house. I want you to get your career off the on the right foot, pay cash for this thing. And later down the road, then we can get into a house. So if I could put two of you on two separate tracks and let's see who wins your track or the track I just outlined where you use every dime you can scrape together and you pay cash and you work your way through beans and rice rice and beans and you do anything you can do to create an income to get your way through but you

don't have a house and you don't have money to start a business when you come out but you don't have any debt versus the plan that you've got where you've got 120 000 with the debt of debt, $35,000 in the bank, and you've got a house, which means you don't have $35,000 in the bank anymore, and your expenses have gone up. If I can take either one of those two guys and I fast-forward them 10 years, my guy will win. You'll end up with the house and owning your business. You might have to work for someone else for a season to save up the money

to start your business. You might have to work for someone else for a season to get the the money to start your business. You might have to work for someone else for a season to get the house bought, but you won't have any debt hanging around your neck, and every dollar you make will be free for you to plow into your future in cash, and you cash flowed the whole thing. Ten years from today, ready, set, go, my guy will win. Reminds me of the tortoise and the hare. Classic story, but we've got to move slow here.

And I think there's a lot of lies that we've believed, especially the younger generations, that, Dave, we deserve a house. We've worked so hard to get through school, and we just deserve the right car. I didn't even hear entitlement in his voice. I just heard he was trying to be wise, and he's trying to do all these smart things. And he's trying to do three different things that are smart in his mind and doing them in the wrong order. School, house, start a business and you're trying to do them all at the same time and in the wrong order and hold this money and try to make this 35 000 do all that it's not going to do all that and it's the same guy who will call five

years later and say hey dave i got a chiropractic practice and i've got hundreds of thousands of debt because i needed to start it for startup costs what do i do i'm broke yeah and i don't want that for him so a, Ryan, I'm sorry. You're going to do what you're going to do. And I got a feeling just from listening to you, you're probably going to do your plan. But if I could put your twin brother beside you and he worked my plan, he would beat you. I'm telling you, that's how the math will work out and that's how life will work out. Robert is with us in Gilbert, Arizona.

Hi, Robert. How are you? Good, Dave, George. How are you guys great man what's up uh yeah i have a question um the question that's on the top of my mind is and i don't know this there's such a thing like being too gazelle intense because right now like i'm in baby step two and i'm trying to pay off all the debt but i'm working from four in the morning to about 10 at night. And then by the time I get home and fall asleep, it's like 11. I got to wake up by three to go to work.

So it's like, I'm getting four hours of sleep a night, but I'm constantly feeling tired. My body is feeling the, uh, the effect of it. So it's like, there's such a thing as being too gazelle intense. And how would I like go around this? Cause I mean, if i keep following this plan i just still won't be out of debt for about another year year and a half and back your hours back your hours down dude that's untenable that's not that's not sustainable intensity is

not a number of hours intensity is focus right and so what are you making at these jobs uh so one of them i make about 70 grand the other one i make about 35 okay not bad so that's nice and the good news is you'll be done a year a year and a half but um i mean two hours three hours of sleep if that's really what's going on if you're not exaggerating that um that's not sustainable the human body can't do that and so i mean i've only been doing it for a month and I can already tell it's not sustainable. Yeah. You're not getting enough rest. You're going to have a car wreck or something.

You're not going to function. Okay. Right. Yeah. My only thing was, like, if I back down the hours. You got to back down the hours. Okay. And then just take on being in debt a little bit longer.

Yeah. If it costs you two months and you're alive, then that's okay. But, I mean, you don't have to back them down. You don't have to drop one of the jobs entirely, but you've got to get some more sleep. You've got to have a little bit more rest. If that's really what's going on, if you're not being a drama queen exaggerating,

because I don't know how you did that for a month ago. That's pretty wild. But if you're really doing that, I would back that off. But intensity is about focus and everything else to the exclusion. It's not about number of hours. Most people know me as the guy who did stupid with a lot of zeros on the end. I made my first million dollars in my 20s the wrong way and then went bankrupt. That's when I set out to learn God's ways of managing money and developed the Ramsey

Baby Steps. By following these steps, I became a millionaire again, and this time the right way. After three decades of guiding millions of others through the plan, the evidence is undeniable. If you follow the Baby Steps, you will become a millionaire and get to live and give like no one else. My new book, Baby Steps Millionaires, is now available for purchase. When you order my new book, you'll learn how ordinary people built extraordinary wealth and how you can do it too. I'll walk you through how to invest, build wealth, and bust through the barriers preventing you from becoming a millionaire. Baby step your way to becoming a millionaire.

Get your copy today at RamseySolutions.com. That's Ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones at 888-825-5225 over the last 30 years I've walked with millions of people and their families to help them overcome financial stress, but that's just one of the kinds of stress that's out there. Certainly in the last couple of years, a lot of people have had anxiety, loneliness, all kinds of things are popping up, and it's a bit of a mental health pandemic out there. Dr. John Deloney has a new book available for pre-order called Own Your Past, Change Your Future. It's selling like crazy. Everyone wants and needs to know about Dr. Deloney's not-so-complicated approach to relationships, mental health, and wellness.

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How are you? I'm doing well, and thanks for taking my call, Dave and George. I appreciate your guys' wisdom and opinion, so I'll try to be brief. A little groundwork. I'm an over-the-road truck driver. I am out five days at a time, and I have rotating weekends. My wife works full-time. I would say two full-time jobs.

She also takes care of our kids all week while I'm gone. So we have a 20-month-old, and we have a second baby boy coming in nine days. Wow. So, yeah, mama's got her hands full. I try to help while I'm there, and this job does have predictable schedules, which really helped a lot. But here's what happened. A lot of relational stuff and a little financial thing, but I do wonder your thoughts on the financial thing. So when we put the second car seat in the shed of small SUV small suv i was the one who said you know things a little

tighter than it needs to be in here uh for you having to pack them out in and out all day by yourself um we might look at some other options so we talked about it could not agree on makes models anything i'm looking at minivans she's looking at suvs um we actually went and physically looked at some cars just to get some ideas, try to compromise on things. And there was a little compromise on cars, you know, different makes and models. And then we were trying to figure out what would be realistic in our range with the trade and all that. And there were several, we both got a little sticker eyeballs there and then tried to back away from that. And there were several talks about, you know, we both got a little sticker eyeballs there and then tried to back away from that.

And there were several talks about, you know, we're not going to finance anything different than where we are now to get into the vehicle we need to be. You know, a lateral move is fine, but we're not going to go backwards. Next thing I know, Saturday, she sends me pictures of this van that she just went and picked up and financed $10,000. We owed $5,000 as it was on a cover, and we had the money to pay it off. We were doing the stork mode thing, and I don't know if she just had a change of heart. We had a commitment conversation last night, and we agreed there's a lot of individual and relational counseling needed to figure out how we even got to where we thought this was a good idea. My thought on the financial side is we turn right back around and sell that van.

And whatever the gap money is between the sale and paying off the loan, that's what we go by. She seems to still think, I don't know at what level, that this was a good idea and that we should keep it. That it's just five grand further backwards and that we can pay it off if we buckle down. So I'm curious what your thought is there. Wow. pay it off if we buckle down so i'm curious what your thought is there wow um well i'm vacillating between this lady's completely overwhelmed with two little babies she's pregnant and and the fact that she completely lost her dadgum mind and went against everything in the relationship, lied to her husband, and acted like she wasn't even married. So, I mean, part of me is sympathetic to where she is and how overwhelmed she is, and I get all of that, but part of me is really ticked at her right now.

And I suppose you're probably 10x of both of those exactly and and i do understand on the one hand and not necessarily about bigger vehicle is the right choice of vehicle the loan is completely separate from that well and it does but this decision making process that is completely out of control you're not going to ever have anything financially until we solve whatever is broken there in her uh in her mind on how relationships work um so i i um uh uh yeah financially what need to do is sell the car and you need to get a car that you can afford. Um, and also that would probably be a good idea for her to do to recommit to your marriage, not necessarily to the Ramsey steps or something.

You guys may decide together that you want to go deeply in debt. If you want to do that, that's fine. But whatever, the first thing that has to happen is you all have to get on the same page and agree to keep your word to each other. You just can't have a relationship where you just don't keep your word to each other or where you act independently, unilaterally of each other like this. There's just no data that says that creates a quality relationship yeah the financial piece can be undone today but the relational piece the trust that's going to take a while to build back up and i think you're right that counseling is in order and on the financial side do you guys still have other types of debt outside of this car loan yeah how much

a little bit yeah they're working baby step two. Yeah, we had five grand left on the cars. This current car is now ten, so an additional five or six. She has a $17,000 student loan, which would have been the next thing we tackled, and then some petty collections that she has from old credit cards. Yeah. My guess is your wife feels like that she's running her life by herself already for a long time because you're just never there and um she feels abandoned and she just had to do what she had to do as an abandoned single mom

i'm thinking that's where she is emotionally you don't feel like that's where she is but i think that's where she thinks she is i agree with that that that's probably pretty fair for how she feels emotionally i guess my concern is that you know and i don't downplay that at all but at least relationally and financially we agreed to be on the same page and then you went and did yeah i mean i i'm i'm i'm livid of her breaking her word and just doing this, but I'm trying to figure out what level of distress she must have been in to do that because it sounds like you all had very clear conversations, and then she just went and did whatever the flip she wanted to do anyway.

It just tells me she's just in freak-out mode, I guess. I mean, because I don't't this lady does not sound like someone who is obstinate arrogant she doesn't sound like that person to me she sounds more like somebody who feels i think she's a cornered animal and she bit you you know what i'm saying yeah that's how it feels so you got to get to the bottom of that before you can fix this van thing the van problem is that is the symptom it's not the thing so and it may be dude you're coming off the road and you got little babies and she she's overwhelmed and you may be coming off the road and doing something else so that you can be there for

your family for a season i don't know but i do know you need to sit down with a marriage counselor for sure i'm not qualified to unravel all this i can just i can kind of get on her side for a minute but there's no way to justify what she did on the other hand so i can get on your side and be pissed about it too i get it i understand where your head is but i'm trying to figure out what caused this so it doesn't happen again that's the thing because if you don't break this, you're going to be broke your whole life. So, yeah, sit down with a good marriage counselor, my friend. This is The Ramsey personality is my co-host today so George I saw you doing a thing the other day um you're like a hacks guy I mean you find all these shortcuts and these deals and these ways to

do things and you and Rachel were doing some on the the grocery store that were really really popular and um you were telling me a few minutes ago, and I thought, let's just tell everybody. Share the secrets. You've got, number one, we are not kidding when we say in baby step one, two, and three, you don't need to see the inside of a restaurant unless you're working there until you're out of debt because restaurant food is entertainment. It is not nutrition. If you want to spend one-fourth of what you spend at the restaurant, you will have a better meal when you learn to cook at home.

Okay, so it's not about, it's economics. If you want to do entertainment, you do entertainment when you're not broke and in debt and don't have an emergency fund. So when you finish Baby Step 3, though, and you're in 4, 5, 6 running simultaneously, yes, we go on vacation. Yes, we go into restaurants. Yes, we go into restaurants. And we're not against restaurants. Sharon and I will eat at a restaurant this week, I suspect.

Maybe. I don't know. Sometime. But, I mean, we're not every night people like some of you. So we're not anti-restaurant. And one guy said, well, in the restaurant business, you don't like people in the restaurant business. I love the restaurant business. I just don't want people broke broke people going in

there yes so anyway once you're not broke people you've got some ideas on how to save some money some savings hacks especially on some of these quick serves yes and now we're not talking like bottom of the barrel fast food here because it's hard to beat the taco bell one dollar menu there's not a lot there's you can't hack it yeah there's a can of alpo beats that exactly well there's not much real meat in there but some of these fast casual places you know the paneras the chipotles starbucks chick-fil-a i put chick-fil-a in another tier i don't know why i agree and panera i would agree it's a level almost anything in another tier from taco bell there you go all right so uh do you want to do a choose your own adventure are you a fan of any of those uh i can't see you frequenting any of these fairies.

I'm not the customer, and I'm not the focus group. So you just plow right in. Okay. Well, most of America maybe steps into a Starbucks at some point. Apparently. They're on every freaking corner. They're everywhere. So I'll give you some hacks here for Starbucks because some of y'all are getting $8 drinks at Starbucks that don't even have coffee in them.

It's just sugar and water. And it's just real fancy. And you add whipped cream on top and you go, happy to give you $8. So here's some hacks. Number one, become a rewards member. This is completely free. There's no credit card involved. All you do is you sign up to become a rewards member and you get free refills on your brewed coffee.

You get exclusive offers. You get a free drink on your birthday. And you can get any drink, Dave. You can get a $10 drink on your birthday if you want to. There you go. So I'll celebrate with you. It's not Starbucks. It's $10. Exactly. They're increasing the prices. So that's number one. Number two, get caffeine for cheap. If you're just going to get the caffeine, you want that bump, you want that adrenaline rush, then avoid all the fancy drinks and get the brewed coffee. And bump, you want that adrenaline rush, then avoid all the fancy drinks and get the brewed coffee.

And here's why. It has more caffeine than any of their other drinks. A tall coffee, that's the small one. Dave, I know it's confusing. Small, tall. You don't think of that when you think of me. I'm a size tall in height. There you go.

I'm just saying. That has 235 milligrams of caffeine. A venti latte has 150. That's confusing. I saw the cartoon the other day. The editorial guy, the guy's up with the barista, and she turns around to the other guy and goes, do we have a flavor called regular coffee? Yeah.

So there you go. It's hard to find these days. Yeah. So go for the brewed coffee. It's the cheapest thing on the menu, and it has the most caffeine. So don't come at me in the comments there. Number three, there's a drink that's even smaller than the tall and get this, Dave, it's called short. Who knew? Who knew? And this is a tiny drink, but you can get the same amount

of espresso in there for a cheaper price, or you get your brewed coffee at a cheaper price. If you really are on a budget and you want to save some money with all this inflation stuff going around, ask for a short. You can ask for it in a tall cup. That way there's some room at the top there. You might get a little more bang for your buck. Number four, split a venti. Now, Dave, I'm trying to help you with the sizes here. The venti is the big one. Okay. So if you and Sharon are going to get the same drink, instead of you both getting a drink and paying 10 bucks, split a venti and then pour it into an empty cup. Sounds romantic. So romantic. You can drink from the same straw if you want. You can still do that with both cups.

I don't know what you and Sharon do these days to keep the spark alive. I'm guessing no. Just keep moving on, George. That's fun. And the last one here is go light on the ice. You can ask for light ice or no water added and you get way more in there. You ever take a drink of something, Dave, and it's just four pounds of ice in there, and your drink was over in 10 seconds, and you go, wow, that paid.

That's kind of an old fast food trick, yeah. Fill the cup up with ice. That's how I feel about cocktails, too. You take four sips, and it's gone. You went, that was 20 bucks. Yeah, that's because you're a guzzler. That's right. So ask for light ice or no water added, and you will get more bang for your buck.

So there's some easy Starbucks hacks, and I know a lot of people... Give me another one. We got just a minute. Give me another one. Oh, okay. One more Starbucks hack. No, no, no, no. Another company.

Go to Chick-fil-A. Everybody loves Jesus Chicken. Here we go. One of my favorites. Obviously, download the Chick-fil-A One app, become a rewards member, all that good stuff. But here's the thing, Dave. I order a kid's meal, because calorically, it's still way more calories than any adult needs, because it's Chick-fil adult needs. How am I not supposed

to say anything now? Dave. How is it possible? I can pass that by. Do it. Here's the deal. With the kid's meal, you get a drink, you get your fries, and you can swap the toy for an ice cream. Dave is breathing so heavily right now. But here's the deal. I'm trying to be nice. It's $5 and you get

your food, you can get your nuggets, whatever you want for about $5. Another one, Dave. Feels you can get your nuggets, whatever you want, for about five bucks. Another one, Dave. Feels like you're cheating to me. You ready for this? All right. You can order a BLT at Chick-fil-A. Yeah, but you're at Chick-fil-A.

I know, but Dave, here's the thing. It's $1.60. Whoa. You get bread. It's a toasted bun with bacon, lettuce, tomato. So I'm just saying, if you're on a budget, you got two bucks to blow, and you want something I've got to try that, because their food quality is so good on everything else. I'll give that a shot. Yeah. And you know what? A dollar and sixty? The sauce is free. Pour all the sauce you want on there. It probably

don't need to. Probably okay. A dollar and sixty though. Because what you're paying for the sandwich is the chicken. You're paying for the filet. So when you take that out, it brings the cost way down. So there's a lot more, Dave. We could go all day, but I can tell you're frustrated already. No, I'm just, I'm not frustrated. I'm just interested. You know what America wants to see? Me and you driving down to Chick-fil-A

down the road here and ordering. I think that's our next video together. What do you think? Probably not. Okay. It's a good effort. I just wanted to see Dave roll up

in his mean old truck ordering a kid's meal for himself. That is the content America needs right now, Dave. That would end up on YouTube. Fraud! Fraud! Ramsey's not a child! He just ordered a kid's meal and he's not a child!

I'll be next to you. As your child. No, it's okay. It's all good. I'll take a grandkid and use them as a prop. That's perfect. You both can get kids meals. You've got to get some value out of them. Well, I'm just here to save the people a dollar. And It's all good. I'll take a grandkid and use them as a prop. That's perfect. You both can kids meals. You've got to get some value out of them.

Well, I'm just here to save the people a dollar. And here's the thing. It's not about saving a buck. So what's the ones for Panera? Panera, they've got a new value duet piece. They used to have a you pick too. Now they have a value duet. So it's six, seven bucks, and you can get a soup and a sandwich half and half.

Oh, that's the duet. And you can ask for a lot of free toppings, which is great. So you can double the size of your sandwich by adding all of these free toppings in there so we'll pick up a bunch of panera sometime on a trip and just put it in a box you know and they throw stuff in they're pretty generous with the add-on stuff all that bread's cheap they'll throw a bunch well it's not just the bread i mean the chips they're they're pretty they don't they're not um they're not there's a lot of value in general. And again, they're like Chick-fil-A.

I think the food quality is pretty good for a fast serve, quick serve, or whatever you call them. And they have a new sip club, so you get unlimited coffee for an entire month or, you know, iced coffee, hot tea for $8.99. So if you go to Panera frequently or it's on your way to work, for $9 a month, you can get as much coffee as you want. You can go every two hours if you want to. How does that not beat all of your Starbucks hacks? Well, I prefer the quality of the coffee at Starbucks. Oh, you like the burnt dark roast? That's right.

Well, I get the blonde roast, Dave, if you want to get particular here. Okay, all right. So there it is. So Panera is not like Dunkin' Donuts. They don't have world-famous coffee. The Dunkin' Donuts coffee is supposed to be a big deal too, right? Yeah, I'm from Boston, and so my Bostonians will say Dunkin' beats everyone, but really they're just pouring cream and sugar in it and calling it coffee.

So, sorry. What's the difference in that Starbucks? Well, I drink it black, Dave. I'm one of those hipster types. Oh, okay. Yeah, you like a little sugar in your coffee? No, I'm a hardcore, I mean, super strong, like you stand a stick up in it. You want it mugged.

You don't want anything in it. No, nothing. No, nothing. As a matter of fact, I'll take a coffee and throw an espresso in it. Wow, the red eye. That's what they call it. Yeah, okay. I didn't know it had a name.

You were cool before. It was cool. I'm not. Never. Never. That was never on the list. Well, use some hacks. It was just a lot of caffeine involved.

That's all. Let me know if you use the hacks and you save a buck. It'll make me feel good. I'll sleep well at night. Yeah. Well, thanks for the service, George. I'm here to help. This is The Ramsey Show. Thank you. George Campbell, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host.

Before we go back to the phones, George, I have to know this. We have the fresh ground. You select the size. You select which type of coffee you want. Machines all through the building. For 1,200 employees, it would have been an extra $25,000 a year for us to put Starbucks in them, so we didn't. It has regular, good quality coffee in it, but it is not Starbucks. It's not a brand name.

So save the $20,000 and use that to do other things for the team. Because coffee is free when you work here. It's an amazing person. In the old Yeti here, the Ramsey Yeti every day is uber strong, as strong as you can make it, hard ground, medium. Just put it in there. Black coffee. So what's in yours? I've got water here, Dave.

Do you hit that machine? I do. I love the machine, and we have brewed coffee available. Oh, we have great brewed coffee out there. I just don't take time to go out there and get it in the lobby out here. And on top of that, you spoiled us with an actual coffee bar that has fancy drinks. That's true. And we pay for those, but they're so subsidized that it's like $1.50 for a latte. Yeah fancy drinks that's true we pay for those but they're so subsidized

that it's like a dollar fifty for a latte so that's true you can get the you can get the big time stuff there but so you don't hit them because this machine is world it's really good amazing yeah that's what i drink okay and then they've got different and it's completely free when you work here so that's a hack right absolutely okay here's the truth dave i don't make coffee at home because i come into work and i get my cup of coffee. Oh, there we go. You're like those people that plug their cars in outside and get free fuel. You know I'm not an electric car guy, Dave. I can't get behind it.

But you don't get free gas if you work here, but you get free electricity if you work here. That's right. Which I've heard. I do not understand that either. It adds up. All right. Alex is with us in Austin, Texas. Hey, Alex, what's up?

Hey, how are you, Dave? Great, man. How can we help? Yeah, so the reason I called is because I'm in need of a bit of career advice. Okay. So I'm 24 years old. I don't have any loans from undergrad, and I plan on starting pharmacy school later this fall. Great.

But most of the pharmacists that I've spoken to tell me that the field is no longer worth it, and it's not what it was before. It's becoming really saturated. The job outlook is projected to go down significantly, and also the pay has decreased, at least for retail pharmacists, entry-level pharmacists. And so I just don't want to go into something and regret it for the next however many years

if I'm not going to be sure if i i can pay off all those loans yeah with those type of projections and uh that's interesting i have not i have not heard that i did i didn't you know what i don't doubt it with the cvs's and the walgreens entering that space and largely controlling that space as one of the major employers um and it's you know the the and the drug space in general is moving pretty rapidly uh generics and and discounts programs and uh the the um cuban just did a thing with drugs and there was a deal and so yeah that's interesting i i kind of don't doubt what you've heard i don't know that personally but it, but it doesn't sound like it's outlandish to me. So let's say all of that's true.

What are you going to do? So, yeah, so that's part of the reason why I was calling, because I've been listening to your show, and, like, these last couple weeks, I started listening, and, you know, all these people getting into debt, they're not being able to pay it off. Yeah. So that's part of, like, I guess couple weeks, I started listening. And, you know, all these people getting into debt, they're not being able to pay it off. Yeah. So that's part of, like, I guess it's a fear factor, especially since I haven't had any loans from undergrad. What is your undergrad in?

Biochemistry. Okay. So you're obviously broad. What's your GPA? 3.8 from undergrad. Good for you. Okay. Well, there's a lot of stuff you could do with that

it doesn't have to be pharmacy it's just that's been your dream a long time and now talking about changing horses is scary as crud isn't it yeah so everything i've done has led to that and there really hasn't been like a plan b yeah so i don't know if i should stick with this and hope for the best no i think you need to I think you need to pan back and develop a plan B, and that will help you decide if you're going to stick with it. Gotcha. Let me give you a decision-making tool I use in all major decisions, and I use it in business.

I use it personally. Okay. I always want a lot of options. The more options I have, the better decision i'm going to make because in developing the options i learn a lot about all of the paths in other words while you're developing option bcde you're going to learn about pharmacy things you didn't know today and and when you feel like you have one possible path and you're stuck on that path that seldom results in a good decision especially when you've got data and evidence telling you making you question your decision and so an example would

be years ago i got ready to lease a building for this business okay i had one i had my eye on and i liked it and i thought that was the right way to go but instead of just doing that i went and became an expert on every building in a 10 mile radius that was for rent what the rent was what the square footage available was what the build-out cost was going to be and i spreadsheeted all of it and i put all of this data down there and in the gathering of all of that the decision rose up and it actually was not the building i thought it was we ended up going with building b rather than building a and it turned out to be one of the best real estate deals i've ever done in my life um but i changed i did change course and the reason i changed course was in the development

of other options because i refuse to make a decision where there's only one option. And so when people say, for instance, even in a dating relationship, there's only one girl on the planet that God has for me, you're screwed because that's just not true, number one. Number two, you've just talked your way into marrying crazy or something is what you just did, and that's a bad idea you know so i think you may end up back at pharmacy but george i think he needs a bunch of options yeah i was telling him he needs to go into research mode and figure out what are all of the options based on my undergrad what are all the schools in the area who's willing to give me scholarships what kind of offers am i getting versus backing yourself into a corner and going

well this is it i gotta take you know he these loans. You know what? He needs Ken Coleman's Get Clear assessment. I like that. Hold on. I'm going to give you that, okay? It's like a $30 thing on our website or whatever it is, $20 or something, to take this quick assessment, and it's going to help you get clear, and it'll give you some output. It'll give you some ideas of things to think about and look at. And I'm even going to go ahead and give you Ken's book,

From Paycheck to Purpose, because I think that's what's going on. But for sure, take that Get Clear assessment and maybe even call the Ken Coleman Show and talk to him after you've done this. Because I'm not saying that I don't have – I told you earlier in the conversation, I don't have personal knowledge that pharmacy is dead. But what he's saying, it does smell right. Yeah. And so I want to look into all the options. And I know that, like you said, Dave, we have to shift gears here and go, maybe pharmacy school isn't the thing that I always thought it was going to be.

And now I've got to switch, and maybe I go into research, or maybe I go into a different industry. That can be a hard pill to swallow, but I don't want him calling back five years from now going, Dave, I regret it. I'm $200,000 in debt, and I don't even want to be a pharmacist. Well, and he's got the gray matter to be a scientist or do anything he needs to do with what he's talking about. So there's a lot of different directions he can go.

It just depends on what you want to do with your life. When you come home at night and you're tired, is it a good tired? Did you feel like you accomplished something? Are you working at something that you're passionate about? You and I finish doing one of these live events, and, you know, we've been on stage for a couple hours or whatever. We come off, we're tired. We finish doing a three-hour show.

We're tired. It takes more energy to do a three-hour show. It doesn't work an eight-hour day. And so, but that's a good tired because it's stuff we love doing. Yeah. And that's what Ken talks about all the time, being plugged into something you love doing. It's a great assessment. I took it myself, and I'm in the right field, Dave.

I want you to know that. Well, I feel a lot better because I was worried about that. It said you should be a pharmacist. No, I'd be terrible. I'll leave that to our other friend on the line here. Yeah. Yeah, you may end up there, but i'm gonna do i'm gonna explore some options because here's the thing if you do end up back there and you have looked at all the options you

will be sure it will have pushed the doubt aside and um you know i i don't know how many pharmacists you talk to to get this information either i might talk to a few more try to find someone who's actually happy they did it and ask them why these other people are wrong well if you ask teachers if i should go be a teacher they'll probably tell you right now the ones you talk to say i don't do it but does that mean teaching is a bad profession you shouldn't get into it might be the thing you're called to do that's true and so that's it's a tough thing you got to watch out who you listen to as well yeah that's true because but but yeah you need to gather more information yeah it sounds

like you have a limited thing here it just but it knocked you off your kilter because you had you had one thing you were doing and it was like oh this doesn't happen that's it i'm with you man hey i hope i hope that works out for you hang on kelly i'll pick up we'll give all that to you as this is the Ramsey Show is one of the most popular podcasts in the world. Get your daily dose of advice on life and money. Check out all of our shows from the Ramsey Network wherever you listen to podcasts.