The Ramsey Show - App - My Wife's Dissociative Identity Disorder Is Causing Her to Overspend (Hour 2)

Episode Date: November 9, 2020

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🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today here on the air. Thank you for joining us, America. We're here to talk about your life and your money. The phone number is 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225.

So a couple of years ago, we started putting out some small books that are one or two chapters long. We call them quick reads. And Anthony O'Neill did one on paying off student loans. We took the study, the white paper from the millionaire study and turned that into a short quick read as well with the full white paper, all the statistics and nerd stuff from the study. Got another one of these somewhere. Who else has got one? I think those are the only two that I know of. Maybe.

It seemed like there was another one floating around in my mind. But anyway, so John Deloney comes on board, and we immediately put together this project. It's a quick read, 80 pages long. In other words, a couple chapters, three chapters, depending on how long you think a chapter is. But the book is Redefining Anxiety. It comes out today.

What anxiety is, what it's not, and how to get your life back. And good-looking picture on there, John. I tell you what, I got that photo, and they said this is going to be the cover. My first thought was, who's that guy? The photographers and digital editors that we have in this building are something else. The Photoshop is amazing. Believe nothing you see on the Internet, man. These kids are incredible. And they can make you look nice.

They can make you look handsome. Yeah, you do. You look great, man. So, redefining anxiety, what it is, what what it's not and how to get your life back so if you're suffering from anxiety or you know someone that is especially if someone feels like it's kind of a death sentence like it's chronic like you're going to have it forever like you're broken and this is just the way you are yeah right that's inaccurate then that is wrong that's right and that's the thesis of this quick read so be be sure to pick it up. There is a light at the end of the tunnel, and no, it is not an oncoming train.

So there you go. Check it out. It's at DaveRamsey.com. We're posting, of course, at Amazon and other places as well that great books are sold. Only $10. Redefining anxiety. Congratulations. Your first Ramsey publication.

I appreciate that. Thank you much. Very cool. Very cool. Good stuff. Open phones at 888-825-5225. I appreciate that. Thank you much. Very cool. Very cool. Good stuff. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Dylan's in Tucson, Arizona.

Hi, Dylan. How are you? Hey, Dave and Dr. D. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up? So my fiancée and I are both 24 years old. I'm on baby step four, and she's currently on baby step two. Um, she has about 28,000 in debt.

Um, we're getting married at the end of April. Uh, we have enough cash to cover the wedding. Um, and then I'll even have a little bit left over, um, to throw on her debt after the wedding. Um, so that's my current emergency fund. Great plan. Yeah. And then after, um, after the wedding, after we pay off the debt, we plan on starting step three, saving up for a house. So my question is, in the meantime,

should I continue investing my 15% from now up until the wedding, at which point I would pause that so we can pay down debt? Or should I pause now um and then just pile up as much cash as i can right now to fill up the debt after the wedding man you are on fire your critical thinking skills are incredible those were questions i was not asking at age 24 good for you dylan i'm not i don't even know i don't even i'm not going there. Man. Seriously, that's awesome. Now, I would pause and pile up cash until you've got enough cash to cover the wedding, her debt after the wedding, baby step three of an emergency fund, and torn into three be pretty hard.

So, yeah, I'd be doing nothing on retirement right now. You need a bigger pile of cash, as much as you can get together, dude. And you are really got this thing dialed in. I'm so proud of you. Very well done. Is she on board with you on all this? She is. She's not.

You know, I'm the nerd. She's the free spirit. I'm obviously a way bigger fan of you guys than she is at the moment. But she's on board. We're actually getting ready to take FPU at our church at the beginning of next month. Wow. Great pre-marriage counseling. Yep, absolutely.

So we're just kind of in the planning stages right now, working on getting on the same page and all that. Yeah, well done. That's outstanding. Congratulations, Dylan. So where did you learn how to do all this? Well, you know, the Dave Ramsey name has obviously always been well known to me um around the church um you know um my church always had fbu classes and all the you know my

parents and all the other grown-ups would always take it um so i always knew about you um once i graduated college uh almost two years ago um and you know was getting ready to start my big boy job. That's when I kind of really started listening to you and getting into it just because the amount of money I was going to be making was honestly intimidating. And, you know, I was kind of scared of having all that money and not really having a plan for it. That's cool. So basically you're a financial peace baby, and so when you start having some money, you said,

I've got to do this the grown-up way. I'm going to jive in and learn how to do it. Very cool, man. Very cool. I love it. Well done, Dylan. Well done. That's generational stuff right there, man.

That's fun. That's a legacy turnover. That's right. That's fun. I like the second gen, third gen even better. That's cool. Second gen is your kids. Third gen is grandkids.

Knowing how great grandkids are going to be, I'd have been nicer to their parents. All right, Steve's with us in Seattle. Hey, Steve, how are you? I'm doing well. How are you guys? Better than I deserve. What's up? Hey, thanks for taking my call.

So COVID hit this year. Wife looked at me and said, get rid of all the debt. We paid off all the debt. We will have by january wow um we didn't have any any personal debt it was all wrapped up in our business um it's probably about 300 grand roughly you just crushed it in a year yeah the last few years we've been invest reinvesting and just pouring it right back into the business. Plus we had, you know, obviously quite a bit of debt.

So this year we put everything right back into it. Wow. To get rid of it. Good. Okay. How can I help today? I got a handful of just small little investment properties. Now I'm trying to figure out how because i've had a

plan in the years past of how i would like to develop these but everything involved taking out a loan and i'm not sure how to do it now um cash flow i don't think you cash flow 300 grand yeah but if i was going to build an event park, and you're talking a couple of million easy, not a couple hundred grand. Aren't you glad you weren't doing that last year? Amen. This is why we don't borrow money. The number one real estate person that goes broke are developers. Okay.

Because they go on the hook for millions, the market turns and it always turns and it leaves them holding the bag and they're screwed it's the number one cause of real estate bankruptcy developers number one category so i've developed some property but i've done it with cash it means i have to go slower i have to wait i have to do it by degrees or in phases you don't have to do millions of dollars at once. You can do a $300,000 street and put it in and whatever and get started, sell off a lot, and take that lot money and then move on to the next thing. And you just do it by degrees and by increments. You're right.

It is an interesting intellectual challenge to do the brain shift the way you're having to do it and the way I had to do it several years ago. But I've never lost money as a result since then. Ha! Has your family grown larger over the years? Ours has too. Christian Healthcare Ministries is now helping over 425,000 members bear each other's health cost burdens. CHM offers budget-friendly options to suit a variety of needs,

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That's chministries.org slash budget. our question of the day comes from blinds.com they have a 100 satisfaction guarantee that means even if you mismeasure or you pick the wrong color, they'll remake your blinds for free. You'll get free samples, free shipping, and with the new promos they run every month, you'll save even more. Use the promo code RAMSEY to get the best possible deal. John, our question. Today's question comes from Chad in Utah.

My wife has been diagnosed with disassociative identity disorder, otherwise known as multiple personalities. Too often when she goes shopping, some of her younger identities come up and she ends up spending money that we just don't have. Then she gets home and feels bad about her purchases, but is too ashamed to take things back. We are in baby step two and working toward getting our debts paid off,

but it's going extraordinarily slow because of this. My question is, what advice would you have to help curb the spending? Aside from simply taking over the money, I just don't know what else to do. You've got to simply take over the money. Yep. You've got to take the debit card out of her hands. You'll have to when she is in what I would call when she's got her central state,

when her central identity is running the show, you've got to make sure that she turns over all of her spending and your job is now to go to the store. You're working with someone who's not fully well, and until she can integrate some of that, and that's a hard, long process, you're going to be running the show when it comes to the money. Yeah. She is not – if we were to – if, if say someone has dementia, as an example, they are of diminished capacity from a legal standpoint, and so you could take your grandpa into the judge with the docs letters

and say, Grandpa's of diminished capacity. We need to take over and take, you you know they appoint a guardian at light them and you don't ask someone who is of diminished capacity to make quality decisions for themselves right and uh and and so from a legal standpoint you don't have to do that legally in this case but uh you literally take over someone's finances for their own good. That's right. Not for your good, but because they're not capable of doing it in their current state. Hopefully, there's some work that can be done, and this is not a permanent thing, but basically she's got a mental illness, and you're caring for a wife who has a mental illness. That's right. And I would recommend, Chad, I would recommend you get a friend or an accountability partner

that will walk with you because she may not be able to carry that load right now. And that's the season y'all are in. And you may be in this road for a long time, right? This is a very, very rare disorder despite how much attention it gets on TV and whatnot. And you may be in it for a while. So get somebody you can walk along with you that will cheer you on, that will be frustrated with you, and will help you make good decisions. But, yeah, this is your road to home, my man.

I'll give you another one, okay? Something as simple as I've worked with over the years, someone who's recovering from a gambling addiction. They can't touch money until they've got six months clean, and then they can only touch certain amounts, and then they've got to have another six months clean, and then they can only touch certain amounts. And then when you've got two years clean,

we can talk about having joint accounts again. But otherwise, I'm just going to take care of you. Because when you touch money, you can't do it. That's right. And so it's not good for you. It's not good for us. And so you're expecting something of her that she does not have the strength and capacity to deliver, which is called self-discipline.

That's right. And so you've got to step in and do that. Very interesting. Let me ask you this. When I read this, because I know nothing about this, I mean, other than I know what this is, but, you know, from the three psych classes I had in my life. But, you know, but how often is something like this misdiagnosed? Significantly, massively, massively true.

Disassociative identity disorder is super, super rare. And it's just it's a splintering of your identities it's less about you've got different people living inside of you and more you've got identities usually it stems from really significant trauma from childhood and you've got different identities that will rise up and take care of different things like scary moments and joyful moments and there may be something around money or stores or responsibility that this cat's wife reverts back and usually there's one that's a quarterback there's some interesting stuff man you can look at the brain

images change uh blood pressure changes um in true diagnostics it's it really bizarre. But it's very rare. It's incredible, but it's very, very rare. So maybe not in this situation, but maybe if someone thought they had that, it could be that it's almost like we're trying to give something a label where I'm just refusing to control myself. Occasionally, usually if you've got that. It's just the younger me.

I need a victim. Yeah, if I would go see somebody twice, I'd go see two different people who diagnosed me with this. I would not absolutely 100%. You can't self-diagnose this. No. Right. And sometimes dealing with trauma. And I can't undiagnose it sitting here, obviously, either.

And that's not what I'm trying to do in their situation. I just, you know, there's a little part of me that wonders, you know the younger identity i just i've heard so many people have so many excuses that over the years on why they will not control their spending that's exactly right and i'm not saying this is the case with her but i just i'm always leery that's right and again in these rare rare moments yeah the the working together working together means you're taking over right yeah yeah you're just because you're just our diminished capacity that's right that's different than i refuse to or it makes me scared when or reminds me when i was a kid and that's not those are different that's a lot different that's a difference in a 10 and a 2 yeah this you're

talking your heart rates changes your blood blood pressure. I've seen some where some are smoking and some don't smoke. I mean, you're talking dramatic, and it's super rare. And like I said, if someone I love was diagnosed with this, I would be on the phone with another doctor immediately to get a completely new workup to see if this is accurate and true. Very interesting. Yeah, it probably shows up in the movies more than in real life. Way more in the movies.

That's right. Okay. Yeah. Open phones at 888-825-5225. And by the way, just in case some of you misheard that, neither one of us are saying that is the case with Chad's wife. Absolutely not. It's just a discussion because this kind of thing comes up.

Behaviors and mental illnesses and uh diagnoses you know bipolar is the one i do get a lot we get that a lot and and that's much more frequent yeah and we're dave we're living in a world where you can only get reimbursed from insurance with the diagnosis and so there is a there is a tendency there is an incentive to give a diagnosis which means get labeled get labeled we live in a world where we overnight literally 10 years ago we all got access to everybody's information without the training that goes with deciphering some of that information and so we all have become armchair quarterbacks when it comes to what you have what i have pop psychologists and then the third is we

are all looking for a reason why like we talked about in the last segment, why we can't just grind out and do the hard, small steps that is every day. And you take all three of those together, and, yeah, you get diagnosis all over the place. You get people diagnosing themselves. Prescriptions issued all over the place. Prescriptions, like their Tic Tacs, and then look around. We've got a mess, right? Yeah. But that doesn't undermine.

There are very real psychological challenges that people experience. Absolutely, they do. There's no question about that. We're living in a tension right now. I'm not trying to be cold in that regard. No, I didn't hear that at all. Yeah. No.

And I'm just saying, neither one of us are saying that about his wife. Yeah. Because we don't know in that situation. Yep. But if that is truly what's going on, and it sounds like it is, then yes, you cannot, she cannot handle money until she has a level of healing past that. And if you have someone that's dealing with gambling addiction, they cannot touch money. If they're dealing with a pornography addiction, they cannot touch money.

Matter of fact, if they're dealing with an addiction, they just can't touch money because 100% of addicts are broke eventually. It's the gasoline for their fire, right? Eventually. They're going to spend money on their thing, whatever it is they're addicted to, to the point they destroy their family and themselves. Eventually. There are no such thing as rich addicts that remain rich forever. That remain rich.

That's right. Eventually, they're going to snort their fortune away, or it goes from porn to prostitutes or whatever. And gambling is pretty quick. You can run through the money with gambling. Real fast. Just open up your computer and you can go through about $100,000 in 20 minutes. And there's always someone on the street corner to give you some more, right? Oh, yeah.

Absolutely. There's a, you know, the Internet will hook you up, baby. And we're now seeing the fastest growing addiction in our offices for financial counseling is porn. Really? Second is gambling because of Internet access. That's right. It's driven it through the roof. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. Thank you. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage,

J.R. and Kylie are with us. Hey, guys, how are you? Great. Doing great, Dave. Welcome, welcome. So you're here to do a debt-free scream. Yes, we are. How much have you paid off?

$266,711.10. My goodness. How long did this take? Four years, two months, and 17 days, plus or minus a little stork mode in there. So we have a nine-month-old daughter. Love it. She's back in Nebraska. Wonderful.

She's my grandma. Very cool. And your range of income during the four years? We started out at about $78,000, and now we're up to $115,000. Very good. What do you guys do for a living i'm in logistics and transportation and i do trade association management so we just went through the ems um entree leadership oh good very good were you here in person or did it on the stream we're here yeah okay great very good well thank you for coming. Yeah. Very fun. So $267,000 over four years. Did you pay off your house?

We, well, you tell them. Well, about $24,000 was cars, $30,000 was credit cards, and then about $80,000 was student loans. Yeah, we had a $132,000 mortgage, and we had talked kind of about moving back home and a opportunity came up we have we're from a really small town so we sold our house and we bought our current house with cash all right very cool long answer yeah we did we did how about a little gyration to get there yeah okay very cool i love it paying cash was definitely like people like what are you doing this is what we needed it we're for sure we're sure this is the right move so yeah wow Very cool. I love it. Paying cash was definitely like, people were like, what are you doing? This is what we needed.

We're sure this is the right move. Yeah. Wow. So what's the house worth that you just bought? We bought it for $80, and it's down to the studs right now, so it needs a little love. It's in desperate need of drywall. But once we're done, a couple have just sold around the area, so about $130 to $150. Excellent.

How old are you two? I'm 31, about to be 32. 28. And you have a paid-for house. Yes. We do. You're so weird. We are. Man, way to go, you guys.

So what did the folks in the mortgage process tell you as you met with your realtor, so we're going to buy this with cash, then you went to closing with cash, wrote a check. Did people look at you weird? A little bit, yeah. I think people were like, make sure you borrow a little bit more so you can cover your renovations. And we were like, no, we got to do the baby steps. We have to make sure we have enough for baby step three. We got to make sure we can pay cash. We have to make sure we can afford to renovate it. And so we kind of just really made sure we had a plan so that we weren't jumping ahead or getting ahead. So we did baby steps three. Wait a minute. You had a plan?

I told you you were weird. She's definitely the planner of us too. I love it. You both seem like a very precise couple. The numbers you gave were down to the hundreds, right? Yeah. What do you all do for fun? Well, when we're not paying off debt.

We're tearing out plaster and laugh and travel um husker football yeah yeah back and forth to nashville a lot lately yeah yeah we just come to nashville for fun yeah come see you guys well way to go guys so i mean you've been on quite a journey we have have you even breathed it in that you're 100% debt-free? Yeah. It's taken a little while to kind of get used to, but as the paychecks start coming in and we don't have the mortgage or the loan payments to pay, it's almost like we have so much margin in our budgets.

What do we do with all that money, really? So the budgeting process is a little bit different to kind of get used to that, but it's, yeah, it's been awesome. Yeah. Way to go. You guys. I think the biggest thing for us, like just going into work and like we both enjoy our jobs, but just going into work and knowing we're choosing to be there. We're not feeling the pinch of, I got to get this paycheck. I got it. I have to make the ends meet. Like we choose to go to our jobs every day. You're not trapped. Right.

We just know that we're there and we want to be there. And I think it makes us better employees too. Yeah. Absolutely. We coordinate the class and we're doing one right now. And we had lesson two last night about dumping debt. And Dave, you have that part about like you're walking out and like, where are you going? I don't have any payments.

So we can definitely relate to that. Has it hit you yet that your nine-month-old daughter will have none of these experiences won't have that stress those late night pacing around your house um she won't deal with that she's gonna have a totally new family tree because of the work you did yeah that's something that i kind of thought about a lot throughout the process too when we first got pregnant and then when she's here um because like as a kid you know our family wasn't very financially set so um my childhood was not as as good as i want it to be so hers is going to be definitely way better that's incredible i think just seeing her and having her around just like gave us that push to kind of like really go after it to know like we and we don't want to have to constantly feel this pinch all the time or say no all the time.

Yeah, live like no one else so later you can live and give like no one else. I love it. I love it. Way to go, you guys. So you're leading a financial peace class. Yep, our fourth one. Okay. Wow.

So what started the whole journey four years ago? Did I ask you that already? Well, it started about five years ago. I was going on a trip up to Canada, a fishing trip up to Canada with some buddies, and we drove about 14 hours from Lincoln up to Canada. And the driver who controls the radio was also a big fan of yours, so we got about 14 hours of Dave Ramsey podcasts. Oh, my Lord.

So we've coined it as the Ramsey road trip now. Oh, I don't want to go on that trip. I've listened to 14 straight hours of my boss, and it's a lot. So congratulations. They jumped out of that truck, though, and they're like, we can sell the boat. We can sell our guns. We can sell our truck. We can sell.

What can we sell? I was like, what is this? Where did you guys go? I thought you were on a fishing trip. Yeah, she kind of thought it was a racket at first. She's like, I got my own gal that I get my financial advice from. And then about a year later is when we got married and kind of decided that's when we need to get on track.

So one of your first orders of business in marriage, just dive into this plan. Yep. After the honeymoon phase, we got back and took a couple weeks off. Started the spreadsheet. Yeah. Oh,

the spreadsheet. The planner begins the plan. The budget meetings. I like it. The spreadsheet. Yeah. Oh, the spreadsheets. The planner begins the plan. The budget meetings. I like it. The tears. So who were your biggest cheerleaders? I think leading the class really gave us a lot of accountability. We took the class.

We had just a shout out to Nick Wagner. He was our coordinator, and he's just done so much for our family in the last, um, yeah, it's just been so helpful. And so that was really helpful for us and accountability wise to just like have that nine weeks of just really getting after it, but then coordinating the class, like you have to, you have to do what you're, what you're coordinating and what the class says, and you have to live that out and people are listening. So teaching the class really helped us. And we had so many class members that really rallied behind us and just just really told us like you guys are doing great this is awesome we can't wait to get to where you're at and that gave us a lot of accountability and our church in kansas city where we lived before was amazing

our church church family was huge and which church were you in casey um christ community the downtown campus yeah okay very cool very cool good for you guys well done well done we've got a copy of chris hogan's book for you everyday millionaires you know the drill it's always the uh that's the next chapter in your story uh and you've proven that you know how to do this you haven't paid for a house you're 28 years old just shut up i mean my gosh this is amazing i'm so proud of y'all you're heroes thank you so very you. So very well done. So very well done. Yeah, your next chapter is to be everyday millionaires.

That's the next chapter in your story. It doesn't end here. Right. You got out of debt, so that. Exactly. Right. So that is what's important. Yeah.

One of the classes that we had led was during the Margin KC Kansas City classes. So that was very cool to kind of be a part of like the citywide movement. Yeah. And we talked about that a lot, too. Like the feeling of peace for me is just having so much margin. And so. Yeah, that's what that campaign was called. Margin.

Yep. Yeah. Randy Frazee, the pastor up there, got that started as a friend of mine. Yeah. Well done, you guys. Very, very, very well done. All right. Here it is.

J.R. and Kylie Lincoln, Nebraska.braska 267 000 paid off four years and two months 78 215 income count it down let's hear a debt-free scream three two one we're debt-free That's so cool man Man the math on this 32 years old making 115 Yeah You know where they're going to be at 42 Where they're going to be at 52 Where they're going to be at 62

It's tens of millions of dollars Right I mean they're going to be Wow What a deal What an impressive young couple It's incredible guys And if you're listening out there Maybe that's the first time you've ever heard this, it's your turn.

You can. You can do this. You can do this. I'm talking to you. Right there. Yeah, you. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Thank you. Folks, if you're like most people in America, your car has gotten a little dustier this year. Some car companies have already started giving credits for about 15% of your premium.

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Jake's with us in Salt Lake City. Hey, Jake, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave and Dr. John. How's it going? Great. How can we help? So I've been working in the live event industry, building, producing concerts, trade shows, and other live events since I was 18. Oh my God.

And I'm 18, or sorry, I'm 28 now, and I've been trained for years. I'm on the job training, but I'm getting married next month, and I have no income right now. And so I'm trying to see what advice you guys have for restarting with a new career. Hmm. And so I'm trying to see what advice you guys have for restarting with a new career. Well, you need to because, I mean, I think live events will be back someday, but I don't know when. I don't know anything, apparently, based on my predictions for this last year. But, I mean, we are doing some events, but we're one of the few companies in the world that are, and they're very small, and we're one of the few companies in the world that are, and they're very small. And we're doing a lot of streaming stuff, of course, but that's more like video production than it is doing live events.

So you're right. If you were marrying my daughter, I would say get a new career. Right, yeah. For now, anyway. Jake, are you just grinding something out right anyway what do you jake are you just grinding something out right now are you delivering are you just putting it together are you making a living right now so i've been working for an amusement park that i worked for right out of high school but our season ended uh first week of november so now i'm to a point where even

dining comes gone so now i need to see what I'm doing. What do you want to do, man? That's a hard question because, you know, I've been for 10 years, I've been doing that. So trying to find something else where in what I've worked so hard to build, that's really difficult. So I'm going to let Dave handle the Dave answer the career part of it. I want you to make sure you don't miss the opportunity to mourn this and put a period at the end of it if you're actually going to change careers. Otherwise, it's going to hang on you and it's going to drag on you. And there's something about having a process, about just stopping, getting a couple of people together,

and talking about how great it was and putting an end to it. Otherwise, it's just going to haunt you. Ride it up and burn it in the fire pit in the backyard or something. Make sure you mourn it. It sucks, man. I wish there was a nicer way to say it and to cheer you on and say, hey, it'll be back. We don't know, man.

We just don't know. And make sure you mourn it before you transition. And then you can look at this as an opportunity to go do something that you had burning way deep inside of you or something different, or you may have to grind it up for a while. Okay, so if you're like our live event team, you've developed some skills that are transferable. One thing is that you know how to change and make new decisions very quickly to a new end

because you run into the unknown frequently. You roll up on a place and you're supposed to have an event go a certain way, and all of a sudden there's 73 obstacles that were not in the contract that are thrown in the way, whether it's difficult people or a difficult venue and the load-in docket and what it was supposed to be, the lighting tree wasn't where it was supposed to be, whatever it is. And there's a lot of fast decisions and quick decisions and moving and pivoting and being flexible. So you're not going to be a very good bureaucrat.

You're the opposite end of the spectrum. Does that make sense? Absolutely. so you're not going to be a very good bureaucrat you're the opposite end of the spectrum does that make sense absolutely yeah you don't you do not want to get tied into something that is extremely process and rigid driven if it's rigid it's going to kill you because you are anything but rigid if you're like our guys because we have to make up crap on the fly sometimes up to three minutes before i walk on the stage so you also are very gifted at speaking diva you're going to be great at working with ceos with executives with leaders um and able to get people to get the best out of themselves and also be able to just smile and say you got it and go go get a job done right when that buries some people and you've been there that's right you've been there you know how to just smile and say, you got it, and go get a job done, right? When that buries some people.

That's the problem for them. That's right. You've been there. You know how to just take it and move on and get a good show done, and that's a gift, man. Yeah. I think working with personalities and unusual situations and high-stress scenarios and still getting something done is a transferable skill. We just have to think about where that is and who that's to.

Most of our businesses have all been run that way this year. I think we had an advantage at Ramsey Solutions because we have a huge live event department that, and I've been neck deep in it for 30 years. So, you know, when we had to pivot and change a whole bunch of stuff around here quickly then we kind of had that skill set even and just transferred it into some of the other business units and um so things were where things have to change and we're difficult people and obstacles are there that's a good place where you're going to thrive because it's it gives you energy that's the thing and the um trying to think what that is but i don't know so i mean i

ran into somebody i'm playing my i'm trying to channel my inner ken coleman here yeah i ran into somebody here in the hallway today and i said what gang are you with which team here at ramsey are you with and he said well i was with live events and now i'm helping out with the concierge team able to answer some questions give people the help they need able to able to take somebody who thinks they're in a solution-free environment and give them some other options. And that's all stuff they've done backstage. Talk them off a cliff. That's right.

And so whether it's customer service, whether it's working with leaders. Hostage negotiator. That's right. And it's really endless. And I think he's going to have to find – Jake's going to have to find that balance between grinding something out and you've got to get some money coming in, whatever that looks like. I think you go all the way back to whiteboard and like you were 18 years old or something and go, okay, what do I want to do with my life now that I know that I know this about me?

Right. Because you know what your skills are, you know what your talents are, and Ken Coleman talks about the sweet spot where your talents intersect your passions. And you've got certain passions and certain talents that have been revealed in this 10 years of experience, so it's not wasted. That's right. It's never wasted. It's not a cold stop and restart as much as it feels like it is.

So I'm going to give you a copy of Ken's book, The Proximity Principle, and I want you to go to KenColeman.com, start listening to his podcast a copy of Ken's book, The Proximity Principle, and I want you to go to KenColeman.com, start listening to his podcast. You may even call in and talk to him. He'd probably be more helpful to you than we were. But also, you can download tons of free PDF things that'll guide you through the process of self-discovery and getting clear on where you want to go. And then once you get clear, then you've just got to execute and go land there. But I think it starts with mourning the end of something. So many people get fired, they get laid off, they get furloughed,

and they just go run jumping to the next thing. And that's very similar to somebody divorcing you, and the day after divorce you just run in and marry somebody. Like, you've got to stop, pause, mourn that sucker, and then extract the lessons that it taught you before you just run off into the woods right yeah yeah i mean it is sad to have loss it is okay no matter what the loss is and we all have them there's sadness and we've had a bunch of this year big ones small ones yeah you know and just to say that out loud is okay it

doesn't make you you know a bad person it doesn't loud is okay. It doesn't make you a bad person. It doesn't make you a child. It doesn't make you any of those kinds of things. It makes you wise, yeah. Yeah, you just go, that hurt. Ouch. Right. You know?

And then go take the next wobbly step. Exactly. Exactly. Hang on. Kelly will pick up. We'll get you a copy of Ken's book, and hopefully that'll help you, Jake. We empathize with you, brother, because we've got a bunch of people around here in the same situation. We're working them.

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