The Ramsey Show - App - Navigating Relationships & Money (Hour 1)

Episode Date: July 3, 2024

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, host of the Dr. John Deloney Show, and PhD in counseling. He's my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Marie is in Washington, D.C. Hi, Marie. How are you? Hi,C. Hi, Marie. How are you?

Hi, Dave. I'm well. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Yeah, so I'm calling because I'm wondering if I should be more forthcoming about my financial situation with my parents in order to gain, I guess, credibility on the topic of personal finance. What need credibility from your parents? Yeah, so over the years, I've tried to share the baby steps because I've had success with them, and nothing has quite stuck. I've gifted them the book in print and in audio. I've also gifted them like budgeting app subscriptions. And even still, I've watched

them make bad financial decisions over the years. And recently, my dad started talking about Roth IRAs. And I was like surprised that this term was in his vocabulary. So when I asked him what spurred him on, he was telling me about this, I couldn't help but think, gee, my dad is more willing to listen to a random stranger on the Internet over his own daughter. That's probably always going to be the case. You're suffering from what we call powdered butt syndrome. Once someone has powdered your butt, they don't want your opinion on money or sex.

Generally speaking, I mean, it's a rare parent relationship on a rare subject that the kid speaks into the parent's life until the parent is somewhere around 80. It does sometimes, but you're never a prophet in your own land, Jesus said, right? And this is your land. So it's very, very, very difficult. The only, and I'll just tell you, the vast majority of my family, Sharon's family, does not do the stuff we teach. Oh, wow.

Tens of millions of Americans do, but not my people. So, I mean, they like what what we do they think it's impressive and they they're proud of us for helping people but you know there's a handful of them do it and the rest of them don't i'm just saying so um they just kind of look at us like we're you know vegetarians or something like we're weird you know i mean it's like and so um anyway the uh, the only hope you've got is not to tell them what to do, which is what you're searching for credibility on. Your only hope is just to tell your story and say, you know, Dad, I was out of control. I was in chaos.

And when I started doing a budget i had this experience and then i started working these baby steps and then i had this experience and now gosh i know you'd be really proud i mean now i've got x number of dollars in my 401k and and this stuff really worked for me and i'm just i'm just so excited and i and you just tell your story don't even bring them up if they then say well that'll never work for me you could just say well probably might it might if you want to talk about any time i'm here to help but then please just have your expectations really low the secret to happiness is low expectations i don't think you're going to have a, unless it's a very unusual situation, a high percentage of the time, you're not going to

have a high influence over your parents. Can I tell you why, Marie? Yeah, go for it. Because this is not a you problem. This is a him problem. And I love the fact that you have been searching high and low for what you're doing wrong in communication, but you're not doing anything wrong. He's pretty lucky to have you as a daughter. Yeah. Yeah. He literally can't see it.

I just don't want you to have the expectation that he's going to suddenly go, oh, that little girl that I taught to ride the bicycle in the backyard is now a millionaire you know it just our brains just don't work that way very well it's very unusual i'm thinking of my grown kids right now i've got great relationships with uh they you know run segments of our life our business and i um i've been in the room when they try to tell dave what to do and it's incredible generally doesn't go well it does not go well it's just like i mean i'm you know and even though you know it sometimes if they do it three or four times i'll hear it but the first time even and i'm in a room where i'm asking for this but now it's you know especially when you

get on a personal level and that that's in a business situation. And here's where, Marie, here's where you can elevate the whole, the maturity of the whole interaction. Do you want to tell your dad about this Ramsey plan and this get out of debt plan? Because you want him to look at you at the end of the day and be like, man, you really saved us. You did a great job, daughter. I'm proud of you. Thank you. Or do you want him to learn about the Ramsey stuff, this plan, because you want your dad to have a better relationship with money and to finally have peace inside his home? Because if that's what you want, wherever he gets this information,

let's cheer him on for it. If he gets it from a TikToker and he comes to you and says, Hey, I'm going to pay off all my debts. And maybe that TikToker is George Campbell, by the way, but I'm going to pay off all my debts. I'm going to start putting some money in some Roths. Let's exhale. That's our ego. And let's just be happy that dad's making some better choices with money. If it's about, Hey, I need him. I, this is going to be my avenue for him to be proud of me. Finally have that conversation with him. Ask him directly, Daddy, are you proud of me? Or do you think I'm doing a good job just as a young adult? Let him have that conversation, but don't use this as a proxy.

Otherwise, you're going to make yourself bonkers doing that. Yeah, yeah. And please, really, don't expect for you to be the solution. If it is, it's wonderful, but it's highly unusual. And the only possible way with the people closest to you is to not tell them what they're doing wrong, but instead just tell them about your story. No one can argue about your story.

This is my story. This is what I did. This is when I was scared. This is when I goofed up. And when I changed that and I started doing this other thing, it started working. And here's where I am now. And then I then I went through this and then I sold a car and then I did this and then I did that and you just walk through your story it's your story nobody can debate your story you can debate the theoretical probabilities of the baby steps

but you can't really debate your story and you especially can't um i think we talk a lot about the trees dave you can't debate the fruit and if people see you always picking up the tab at dinner and you drive in a car that you don't owe any money on and you just bought a nice house that you put 50 down like they begin to ask that question what are you what are you doing differently it's the same in our church circles. We always tell people no one's ever started following Jesus because they lost an argument. They just see that, man, that guy's got more light and joy in his life. I want to learn about that.

So you mean hateful Christian posts on YouTube don't lead people to Jesus? I haven't seen it yet. I haven't seen it yet. Who knew? So you guys in the comments section it's not working for you who knew now there you go this is the ramsey show happy birthday america you big beautiful beast you absolutely incredible best country in the world you don't believe me?

Try visiting some of the other places. You'll come back here going, oh, wow. We got warts, but we're gorgeous. Unbelievable. Wow. Very cool. Hey, 4th of July flash sale right here at Ramsey from today through Sunday, July the 7th. We're going to have the lowest prices we have had in over 12, 14 months. $10 for the Baby Steps Millionaire's book.

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Jump in the store. You'll see all the goodies going on. It's a deal. There's some deals. Tyler's in Houston, Texas. Hey, Tyler, what's up? Hey hey dave thanks for taking my call uh my wife and i uh watch your show all the time and we love what you're doing and what you stand for thank you sir and yes sir yep so i had a question for you i'm dealing with you know some fear and anxiety i, um, with potentially buying a new house. So my wife and I, we purchased a home in 2020, um, in a lower income, lower tier schools.

And, uh, we have two little girls, four-year-old and a two-year-old looking to get them in some better schools and, um, uh, getting them in a different area. So we currently right now owe $199,000 on the current home. We could probably sell this one for around $300,000 to $320,000. We currently have a 2.9% interest rate, so we're paying about $1,500 a month. The new house is about 390. We could probably bring that down to 370, the 6.75% interest rate. So that's putting us around 2,500 to 2,800 in payments, which puts us within that 25% to 30% wheelhouse that you're looking at. I'm getting about 10,000 a month, so $160,000 to $170,000 a year. We have no debt, $35,000 for a six-month rainy day fund.

So I'm trying to decide if this is a right move or not. It is. It is. You need to do it. Okay. Yeah, you're fine. Because there's two things that are going to happen in the future, three things that are going to happen in the future, maybe, two of them for sure.

Number one, your income is going to go up long-term. Agreed? Yes, sir. Number two, the house value is going to go up long-term. And in a better neighborhood, it's going to go up more than in a not-so-good neighborhood. Agreed? Yes, sir. Okay.

So both of those things are going to make this a smarter investment every day after you buy it. So your point of greatest strain is the first day. And every day after that, the strain diminishes. Follow me? Yes, sir. The other thing that could happen is rates could go down and you could refinance. Right. So we marry the house, we date the rate.

The mortgage is not permanent. Okay. You're not stuck with the mortgage. Makes me feel better hearing that from you because I've been beating myself up over it yeah i think you're being wise beyond belief compared to your neighbors compared to the americ average american walking around right now who would have just went yeah give me that i want that i'll take one of those and yeah an adjustable rate mortgage while rates are going up and stupid butt statements like that and so that's you know because i want one and i deserve it and i have a smartphone that gives me everything i want so no one can tell me no about anything and they go

buy crap they can't afford you're not you're not even close you're not on that spectrum dude you're being very wise so your your anxiety is um just due to you being reasonably conservative and you're thinking about this but um and uh you know and if your anxiety makes sure that you do a budget and it makes sure that you don't overspend on a bunch of new furniture or something when you move into the house or going to debt to buy a new car after you move into the house or something silly like that if your anxiety tempers your stuff then the anxiety is doing its job right john that's exactly right's exactly right. Does that sound good, Tyler? Yes, sir.

Yeah, you know, before I met my wife, I was, you know, as Dave said, spending like I was in Congress and making some poor decisions. And then, you know, now that I have a family, two little girls, I think, you know, that weight of that. Good husband, good dad. Yeah, good dad. Yeah, you're showing up for your family, man. And know that your anxiety is right here. Yeah.

Like, it's throwing up the caution flags. Are you thinking this through? Are you doing this right? So it's doing its job, and we're going to do the next right move. I'm getting awfully close to the edge here. I'd kind of want anxiety to tell me that, right? Because your numbers are on the bubble. You're right.

You know, you go much further up than this, you're going to have a problem. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. You know, you were right. You walked right up to the edge of the guidelines and maxed them out. But I think you're going to be okay. I really do. You know, as far as would the Ramsey Show folk, me included, tell you to do this deal?

Yeah, we just did. So that's simple. Open phones at 888-825-5225 jesse's in los angeles hi jesse how are you i'm doing well how are you better than i deserve what's up um i think you actually have a question about my a traditional 401k. Mm-hmm. And I'm wondering if I'm able to take my traditional into a full-off 401k. Yes, but you'll have to pay taxes on it. Oh, okay.

There's no penalty, but there's taxes. So what's the balance? The balance, it's $226,000 currently. So you're going to need $50,000. You got an extra $50,000 laying around? Not currently. Okay. No, then I wouldn't do it.

Okay. Today. Now, what you can do is change your contributions from this day forward into Roth. Oh, okay. And will the same... It doesn't change anything then. You just say, okay, the money I was putting into the 401k traditional, now I want to put it into 401k Roth, and that's fine.

That doesn't cost you anything. I mean, you may have a little bit of a tax bill, but it's tiny, tiny, tiny. Then later on, when you get your house paid off and you got some extra money, if you want to flip the rest of this over and you got some extra money and you want to get it growing tax-free, then yeah, it's a good move to do it, but it's not a good move, you know, like while you're trying to get out of debt or while you're trying to do other stuff. Yes. And on a side note of that, I have to thank Dr. Galoni. I called not too long ago, sold my truck. He said to sell it on the weekend, it and i'm just went from a fifty thousand dollar debt to twenty two thousand whoa nice move

way to go man jesse in los angeles selling a truck my baby it was but i need to did you cry just a little not a little i did i saw that i saw that jaguar all those years ago i cried just a little. A little. I did. I saw that Jaguar all those years ago. I cried just a little. I was that little too attached to a dadgum car. Are you married, Jesse? I'm not. I'm not. I'm single.

Wow. Man, you really stepped up. I'm proud of you. Good for you. Yeah, not a lot of single guys selling their trucks, man. You just moved up even more cool points, brother. Yeah. Yeah, I think you're like a grown-up and stuff way to go man

i'm proud of you good work very good work open phones at 888-825-5225 so the roth when we're talking about uh putting your money in your retirement and baby step 4 15 going into retirement and good growth stock mutual funds i spread spread mine, and I suggest you do too, across four types. Growth, growth and income, aggressive growth, and international. Pick good long track records, preferably 10 years or longer. So you've got predictable environment for these mutual funds then, and you can project what you're going to get out of that. The best place you can put money is where you get a match.

The second best place to put money is Roth, 401k, Roth IRA, because it grows tax-free. The third best place is traditional. So it's almost rock, paper, scissors, but it goes only one direction. Match beats Roth beats traditional. So you max your match out, you max your Roth out until you get to 15%. If you're still not there and one of your spouses only has a traditional available, then you do the traditional as your last step to get to the 15% in baby step four. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions, we do the show every Monday through Friday from one

to four central time. You're welcome to come hang out, watch, have a free homemade chocolate chip cookie, some free coffee, and watch the show. And it's free to watch, and some say it's worth what you pay for it. So there you go. On the debt-free stage in the lobby though is joseph and candace hey guys how are you doing great we're great excellent excellent welcome where do y'all live so we're just outside of atlanta georgia in stone mountain oh yeah i know it well well cool how much debt did y'all pay off oh we paid off forty seven thousand five hundred dollars cool how long did that take about 16 months. Good for you.

And your range of income during that time? We started at $107,000 and got it up to about $120,000 with some side hustles and pay raises. Cool. What do you all do for a living? I'm an IT specialist at a Christian school. And I'm an elementary school librarian. I'm at a public school. Awesome.

Very cool. And what was the most lucrative side hustle, the one you made the most money at? We actually did a cleaning side hustle where we went to a small business and did cleaning for them. So that was for- That's really, you can make good money doing that. Yeah. And it's hard work, but it's, man, it's amazing. Well, cool.

Yeah. Very cool. Good for you. What kind of debt was the 48 grand? We had student loans. I had about 3,500, and then she had some from undergrad, and then I also had a personal loan that I'd used to start a small business, but since I have closed that. Ouch.

Yeah. It was a life lesson. Close the dream, and then you get to pay payments on the dream yeah that's called a nightmare yeah ouch no fun at all wow how long you guys been married about three years just celebrated our three-year anniversary in june okay so after you're married about a year you look up and go dead is everywhere i've had it tell me about your i've had it moment what what was it brought you to the where you go okay okay, we're doing this? Well, I had heard of you since I was in college. FPU was actually taught at the church I was going to, so I was familiar with Ramsey.

But we didn't really actually get into it until we got married. I had picked up the book, The Total Money Makeover. I read it, and we had talked about it. She listened to the audio book. And from then on, I took out that personal loan for the business that was really the the I've had it moment it's like I felt like we went back twenty thousand dollars from where we're already at and you know you see the payments just kind of increase and stuff like that so it's like something's got to give here right so we went through Financial Peace University a second time

yep had to do it twice to kind of get it through and really get us on the plan. Well, I mean, there's before marriage, after marriage, right? So went through it a second time together, kind of like New Year's resolutions. And we just went gazelle intense. We got the EveryDollar app, started budgeting. Had been budgeting on paper before that, but EveryDollar is way better than paper. So really from that point on, we were gazelle intense and took everything we had basically learned to live on one income and throw the rest of it at debt so candace when joseph goes

after something he kind of goes all in oh yeah yeah so at what point in this process did you decide he wasn't crazy instead you wanted to go all in uh pretty much the same after the personal alone i think it both hit us at the same time and we looked at each other and said, okay, we got to do something about this. Yeah, this ain't cool. It's not cool. Something's got to give. What was your biggest fight as y'all worked through this?

I don't think we really had a huge fight. I think really it was the personal loan. It was a little bit of a debate as to whether to take it out because I was trying to kind of keep the business alive and stuff like that, um, to kind of pay for, you know, employees and stuff like that.

So it was really like, do we take it out? Don't we take it out? Oh, it's only, you know, you know, a $375 a month payment.

And, you know, so we ended up doing it and, you know, but when we kind of got on the, on the same page and everything like, it's like, okay,

let's just get rid of all of this and let's just do it as fast as we can so joseph that was the most husband answer we didn't really have a fight clear candace told him not to do it okay let's be clear and he didn't listen and he had a spreadsheet and he was like no no you don't understand here's what's gonna happen and she was like i don't feel good about it he's like no no you don't get it and this is a classic then he was like you want to take fpu again if you talk to candace if you talk to sharon remsey she'll tell you i did the exact same thing okay just it's okay it's all right okay so when you're sitting at the kitchen table who wins the the great debate in your home private school versus public school i feel like we're both on uh

on the same page and that you know like mean... You don't have to answer that. I'll just mess it up. You're good. One of y'all will get fired if you answer that honestly, so we can just let it ride. Thanks, John. Never do that. That's not good, yeah.

Way to go, guys. I'm so proud of you. Who was cheering you on as you were doing this? Definitely, we have a great church family. I have some coworkers that have been through FPU and are actually Baby Steps Millionaires. So once I kind of told them that I was going through this process, they were checking in on me weekly, like, how's it going? Her parents, my brother, it was just, we had a great support group. Very good. Very cool. All right. When people say,

how'd you pay off $48,000 in 16 months, what do you tell them the key to getting out of debt is? I would definitely say if you're married, working together, being on the same page. We had budget meetings every month and sat down and talked about it to be sure we're on the same page. We both had every dollar to keep each other accountable. So definitely good teamwork and communication. And I would just add to that,

just having perseverance because life is still going to hit you even when you're going through this debt payoff journey. Like for example, I actually got in a car accident last August and my car was totaled. And you're so tempted to take that insurance money and just be like, oh, let's just do the easy thing. Let's go down to the dealership, put a down payment on a car, call it all good, wipe our hands. But I didn't do that because we were in this. It's like I can't do debt anymore. I'm done with debt.

So I just took the money I could and bought a beater car and still driving it today. But it gets me from point A to point B. What are you driving? I'm driving a 2007 Honda CRV with about 200,000 miles on it right now. Okay, cool. What'd you pay for it? About 5,000. Okay, and how much insurance proceeds did you get from the total?

4,700. Oh, wow. So that was it. So you were already driving a beater. Yeah, yeah. I was driving a 2008. This is amazing how God works. I was driving a 2008 Honda CRV with about 275,000.

Crash that, get a 2007 with $200,000. So I rolled back the miles, and, you know, it's a year difference, but it's, you know, the LX brand, so it's got, you know, the heated seats and the sunroof. So, I mean, I like it. Dude, that car is halfway home. You're going to have that car for a long time. Wow, that's pretty cool. Yeah, heated seats, sunroof, and a beater.

I know, yeah. They didn't make beaters like that back in the day. All right, way to go, man. You guys, that's good stories. Good stories. Well done. So proud of y'all. How's it feel to be free?

Feels amazing. We feel like we can do anything now. Yeah, definitely brought us closer together. Like, once we've done this, like, whatever we put our minds to, there's, it only goes up from here. You know, it's really exciting. So we're working on the baby step three right now doing the fully funded emergency fund should be done in a couple months

but just you know continue to have those dream meetings and realizing this is actually doable this is possible and to you know folks watching and listening like just get started you know don't wait another day just do it amen and joseph what's the biggest lesson you learned? I know what it is. I can answer it for you. She's probably right. Listen to the wife for sure. You'll have another scheme one day and she'll just look at you and then you'll go, oh yeah,

all right, you're right. We'll remember, look back and be like, let's not do that again. I remember that. Congrats, guys. You're right. She doesn't even have to say a thing. She just gives him the FPU look. I like it yeah way to go you guys way to go so proud of you very very cool stuff joseph

and kent a stone mountain georgia 48 000 paid off 16 months 107 to 120 including side hustles cleaning the local small business. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! Yeah! This is how it's done. Wow.

Life is good. Pretty cool, John. that's so cool three years into their marriage it's fun being um almost 20 years past that and they don't even realize how they've set themselves up i think he kind of has a glimpse of it i think he thinks he does see it forward yeah but man when they're multi-millionaires 20 years from now and – Encouraging some young couple just got married to pay off their stupid student loan debt. Yeah. Or their leftover loan from a failed business. Whatever, yeah. And he'll still be driving that Honda CR-V because it'll still be going.

It probably will. It'll still be going. I hope he's not driving it. This is The Ramsey Show. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Joe's with us in St. Louis. Hi, Joe. How are you?

Hi. I'm sorry. I'm a little bit nervous. It's okay. We've never lost a patient. You'll be okay. So, I'm 19, and for all of my, for my two years of college that I've gone to so far, my dad has controlled all of my savings money, and he invests the big chunks of it and tries to make more money.

He's been emotionally abusive in the past, and he's decided in the last year that he does not want a relationship with me whatsoever. He wants to come out but he doesn't want to give me access to my own savings and so I'm wondering as an adult if that just doesn't feel right if he chooses not to have a relationship with me? Should he have control of my money? And also, he's legally obligated from the divorce to provide me with a car for work, and he won't give me a straight answer if he's going to give me a car to take to school. And then I can't get a job, and I'm in baby step two. Okay. Your money and your savings, I assume he and your mom saved this money or did you put the money into no actually it's my money um growing up i was i those the rule in my house was you have to put half of whatever you make into savings um he's like a big thing

years um so um i've been putting half of my money into savings and i've worked really really hard is your name on the account i don't know he says that it's my money but i've never actually seen the account you just gave the money to him when you're a kid um it was in my yeah when i was a kid and then when i got a bank account um i put it in my savings and then he would take out money whenever it got over a certain amount and he put it in the investment do you know what bank it's in um well the bank that i would put it in was the was the uh local credit union yeah but um i don't know he's got it. You think he's moved it out of there?

I know he, I can see the bank. I know that he's moved, like he's told me he has like 13 grand in the investment. And I've asked him for access to it, but he just sends me pictures of statements. And then he got mad at me for not thanking him for making money on my money so if he took money out of an account with your name on it i'm assuming his name was also on the account as a if you were a minor and he took money out yes well i guess it's going to be a joint account. It could be he's a custodian

of the account that's in your name. If you can figure out... Wait a minute, he sent you a statement. Yeah. So you know where the money is? Well, I haven't looked at it yet. Okay. Well, you know where the money is. Contact that financial

institution if your name is on the statement and take the money out. Okay. That's easy. And if you open up an account. I assume it's got your name on it. No, I bet not. I bet he opened an account of his own and moved it over there. Pulled it out of that credit union and stuck it over in his account because he's going to, quote, unquote, make a bunch of money on it.

I don't know. I don't know. i'm not sure this guy's that smart um yeah i that the first thing you need to do is figure out if you can figure out where the money is and if it is your name on the account it's a simple thing just walk up to the teller window and go uh my name is joe and here's my Social Security number. I want to close this account out and take the money out. And just take my money back in, even though he's supposedly helping me? He's not helping you. He just said he's cutting you out. You just told me he wasn't helping you. I don't care what he supposedly is doing.

I mean, the reality is you're telling me he's taking your money. That's what you're telling me. So all you're going to do is just not allow that to happen by moving it and you need to pull all the money out of this joint account you'll have and open your own account yeah anything you can find that has your name on it you're one of the owners you have access to the money you're 19 legally you can walk up and just cash out the account just cash it out okay and take the cash to somewhere else and open it exclusively in your name. And Joe, you want me to tell you something else kind of cool?

Yeah. What college do you go to? I go to St. Louis University. Okay. I would be willing to bet almost every college these days has an office called Student Legal Services that helps students with things like traffic tickets and roommate disputes, but they're attorneys that serve students with things like traffic tickets and roommate disputes, but they're attorneys that serve students. I want you to go sit down with them and ask them about the divorce decree.

Ask your mom to send you that and tell them, I need this. And hopefully, here's what we're looking for. We're looking for one of those attorneys to write you a letter. Or write your dad a letter. Write your dad a letter on your behalf that I need my money back per this statement, and I need access to the car per the divorce decree. And he's going to receive a letter from an attorney, and you've already paid for this attorney with your student fees.

Okay. And if you can't find the SLS office, the Student Legal Services office, go ask your dean of students' office, and they'll be able to direct you. So you have a lawyer who's on staff to help you for free is what he's saying. Well, it's not for free, but you've already paid for them. he's not going to cost you any cash that's right yeah but first and foremost open those statements and figure out where the money is go to that credit union and cash out anything that's in your name there and open that statement and see where he quote unquote invested this money get in touch with that investment outfit if it's got your name on the

account your social security number on the account you're one of the owners simply cash it out and uh then that puts you in where if you get all of that done then you're just in the heartbreaking deal of dealing with an emotionally abusive dad who doesn't want a relationship with you that's the horrible thing and i'd like to just put this out into the world to clarify something that man is not a big fan of quote-unquote Dave Ramsey because Dave he wouldn't be if he called here well that there's a financial goal for him but you also honor your children and you also honor your spouse and you honor your word and that man doesn't do any of those things yeah yeah so I mean it wouldn't if he's a fan it's at a distance because if he got up close it wouldn't be pleasant yeah yeah that's just wrong I mean, it wouldn't, if he's a fan, it's at a distance because if he got up close, it wouldn't be pleasant.

Yeah. Yeah. That's just wrong. I mean, it's just, it's so, but, but, you know, what we've got is a divorce and everybody's mad and everybody's hurt and everybody's throwing stones and, you know, kids hurt, moms hurt, dads hurt, everybody's hurting and hurting people hurt other people. And, you know, that's what's going on so who knows exactly but yeah either way um yeah you've got it you got to play through on these things and it's not it's not you know you need to make decisions folks in these situations that play well over a 10-year period of time not a 10-minute period of time because these are bad they're they feel good in 10 minutes i don't want a relationship with you i'm a toxic jerk those are all short-term thinking i mean no one on their deathbed is glad that they lost their relationship with their kid not over 13 000 bucks

good gosh or the ego of having reinvested it for you and you're not grateful the yeah give me a break this whole call reeks of ego ego ego ego and you're ungrateful i was trying to help you uh yeah i could do without your help instead of sitting by his daughter and saying hey i know you're in college but your mom and i just got divorced and we just blew up your entire world and it's going to be hard for everybody and i'm hurting instead of that which is an emotionally mature response it is oh you didn't make me feel good about my like what i did then fine screw you i'm taking i'm literally going to steal from you and uh i'm going to hold it because you can't do anything about it yeah

hey i can't wrap my head around it, man. All for your own good, though. That's the one. My daughter, Josephine, will be here later on, and we're going to spend a few days together, just us two. And I can't ever wrap my head around making a choice that I'm going to break up this relationship relationship she's not a teenager yet that's probably true that is probably true the thought will occur to you no trust me the thought has

occurred but man i just can't wrap my head around it. I told one of mine, you might talk to your mother that way, but no one talks to my wife that way and lives. Oh, yeah. But man, oh, man. Those are the teenage years. Can you imagine a Ramsey kid having a mouth? Yes. You can imagine that, can't you? I can.

That could happen. The fruit usually bounces up against the tree trunk on its way down. Oh, I love it. This is The Ramsey Show. Thank you. We'll see you next time.