The Ramsey Show - App - Never Put Money in Something You Don't Understand (Hour 2)

Episode Date: October 11, 2019

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🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

That's 888-825-5225. Josh is with us in Michigan. Hey, Josh, how are you? Good. How about yourself? Better than I deserve. What's up? Thanks for taking my call. The reason I'm calling is we have acreage and we were going to build a house on it. We found out pretty quick that the bank won't give you a mortgage to build your own house unless you're a general contractor and have a license and all that. So what we did was we built a 30 by 50 garage with cash, and we were living in that.

What we're wondering is we're going to have this paid off in next year, probably September. And knowing that we can't build an actual house because we're not contractors, we are wondering if we can take out a second mortgage for three and a half percent interest rate. Once we get our loan down to like $1,000, and then just pay off the first mortgage and just have the second mortgage,

if you follow me. You mean borrow on the garage to build the house. Right, because they won't let us, you know, they'll give you it, you know, so you'll have to pay closing costs. Well, you can't even pay closing costs because they won't even give you a mortgage, but you can get a second mortgage on the garage. As long as you have a first mortgage with them, it doesn't matter how much the first mortgage is thousand dollars, $2,000, whatever. So pay it down to $2,000, get a second mortgage so we can build a house and then just pay off the first i know i know what you say about second mortgages um so i told my wife i said well so how much are you wanting to

borrow to build the house uh probably 80 because we're gonna we're gonna build a lot on you eighty thousand dollars on this garage yeah it's we got it's probably 170 000 it's 15 acres. It's a pretty nice garage, to be honest with you. Okay, obviously. And you're living in it. And so what would be the terms on the $80,000 if the $80,000 was a second mortgage? Well, and I guess I don't know all the details on that because we haven't looked into it. I don't know if it would be a fixed. I mean, obviously, if it isn't a fixed interest for, you know, 3.5%.

I think what you're going to find is the terms. I think you're going to find the terms are not very favorable. I think you're going to find a higher interest rate, a variable interest rate, or a balloon, or all three. Right, and we don't want any of that. We don't want any one of those three things. There is another way to scan this cat, and that is hire a contractor, but not for the entire project. Hire them as a consultant.

Okay. Just pay them a small fee to be the name on the – To get their name on the – To be the name, and, of course, their name is at risk, so they have to be able to oversee what you're doing and, you know, that kind of a thing because they would be at risk otherwise. But if they're pulling the permit in the contractor name and you pay them for that and you're managing the job,

you're basically paying them a consulting fee instead of a full-on, you know, contractor's fee, which can be very expensive. It doesn't have to be. But, I mean, you ought to be able to hire somebody, even if they manage the whole job, for $8,000 or $10,000. Okay. You know, 10 or 12% on a cost-plus deal is not that unusual. Okay.

Yeah, because, like, for the garage, we did all the work ourselves, from the concrete to the trusses, you know, the roof. Yeah. So that was the plan with the house. We were going to pay Kat. We were just going to save up Kat's own house. So how in your area, you are in a rural enough area that there's not an electrical inspection that has to be done with a licensed electrician? You can still have all of that stuff still has to pass code but if you pull but it does not require a it does not require an electrician to sign off on it no not if you

if you're building a house to sell obviously yes but if you're living in it yourself no it does not it just has to pass code okay that's that's just just like we yeah that's exactly how it was when we built the garage we're living in. That's wonderful. We did it all. I love it. Plumbing, electric, everything. Cool.

All right. Yeah, well, you know, all you do is you shop around and find some guys that are building, and you just say, listen, for a minimal amount of effort, like pulling the permit and having your name on this, and then I manage and do the whole job, what would you charge me for a consulting fee? Because I think you'll get a much better deal if you get a construction loan that converts into a permanent mortgage. All right. Yeah, because the plan was just to save up for three years.

You could do that, too. And build it with cash. You can do that, too. But the wife is kind of wanting to get out of what we call a garage and into a home. I don't blame her. Even if it is a $175,000 garage. Yeah, I don't blame her. Okay. Interesting. Okay, cool. Yeah, I don't blame her. Okay.

Interesting. Okay, cool. Yeah, but that's one way to scan it is just get somebody to do that for you. I'm very capable of building a house. I grew up in the real estate business, the building business. My dad built houses. My grandpa built houses. I'm very capable of building a house other than the fact I don't have good sources on subs because I don't deal with them every day.

But I could easily GC it in terms of the intellectual exercise that it would be. But when I built the last two houses, I used a builder. And the last one I built, we used a builder and paid them a cost. In both cases, I paid them a cost plus fee to manage the whole job. In both cases, come to think of it. And it's usually just not that high to do the whole thing. But, you know, you can probably get somebody for even less than that to do it on a consulting basis. Beth is with us. Beth is in Texas.

Hi, Beth. How are you? I'm great. How are you, Dave? Better than I deserve. What's up? Okay. This is the deal. Our yearly income is $24,000.

My husband is disabled and a retired police officer. And I'm not able to work because I have to be here to take care of him. We live on a small farm. We raise all of our own food, meat, vegetables, everything, because we just can't afford the groceries. But we're having trouble being able to save. We're on baby step one. We're still working our $1,000.

And our goal in life is just to be comfortable. I mean, we're not wanting to be millionaires and all that because we're 61, and we know we're probably getting on up there, be too old to do that. Family members are saying, y'all are just too stupid. You're not going to be able to do anything because you're too old, you're too poor, you're too broke. Well, I'm the type of person that I think when it rains, you dance in it. So we just don't know where to begin.

As far as trying to get ahead, we're in no debt. We don't owe nobody nothing. That's great. We have two cars. Okay, well, there's only two sides to this equation. There's the income side and the outgo side. And you're obviously not people that overspend. And it's just tough to do a whole lot with $24,000.

I think you're probably doing a pretty good job with your $24,000. So there's two things I would suggest you try to do. Investigate things that, given your limitations, investigate some other ways to increase your income. Let's dream up some kind of a side hustle that you can do in spite of what you've got in limitations. And then the second thing is start doing a written detailed budget. Give every dollar a name before the month begins. You can use our Every Dollar Budget online if you want. It's completely free.

And it'll help you organize and make every dollar dance in the rain for you. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Are high health care costs getting you down? Are you confused trying to navigate your options? Do you wish you could find an affordable, biblical solution to your health care costs? Based on New Testament principles, Christian Health Care Ministries, or CHM,

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That's 888-825-5225. Well, if you made it out of debt, everything but the house, and then you finish your emergency fund of three to six months of expenses, that's what we call the first three baby steps. And that brings you to baby steps four, five, and six, which you do at the same time. Four is putting 15% of your income away for retirement. Five is starting to save and do whatever is appropriate for kids' college, whatever is unique to your situation on that. And six is getting your home paid off as soon

as possible. So if you're at a baby step four, and this investing thing is now intimidating. Remember when the debt thing was intimidating, and then you killed it? Now the investing thing gets in front of you. It can be intimidating. Because a lot of people in the financial world use $10 and $20 words to describe $3 concepts. And sometimes when you sit down and talk to people like that, they're more worried about sounding smart than being smart. And it sounds like talking to Charlie Brown's teacher. I have no idea what the flip you just said, you know.

And so we were sitting in a medical situation a while back, and the doctor did that. And I went, hello, English. I'm the one paying you English. Dumb it down for Dave. He's a hillbilly. You have to put this in words I understand. I don't speak Latin. So he started again and started to grow a bedside manner once he realized who the customer was. So, you know, you just have to do that with people.

And when you're meeting with investment people, they should have the heart of a teacher so that their goal is not to sound smart, even though many of them are very smart. Their goal is to show you how to win with your money and how to understand an investment, how to select an investment, so that you are making the decision. Never put money in something you don't understand because I said do it or someone else that sounds really smart said to do it.

Don't do that. Just go to DaveRamsey.com, click SmartVestor, put in your info. It'll drop down a list of the SmartVestor pros in your area. Those are people in the business. I don't sell investments. Ramsey Solutions does not sell investments. But we have vetted thousands of brokers around the nation who look at things the way we look at it. They agree with the way we're doing things and will help you do your Dave plan, your Ramsey plan.

And they'll do it in a way with the heart of a teacher that you understand it. So click SmartVestor at DaveRamsey.com, and that'll get you going on that. John is with us. John's in Georgia. Hi, John. How are you? Hi, Dave. I'm doing better than any of us deserve, I guess.

Amen. Just the same, sir. How can I help? Well, quite some time ago, my now-deceased ex-wife got a store credit card. It was American Eagle, and bought herself a pair of pants and a shirt. This was actually a little bit before we got married. She got the card in my name and had it sent to our, you know, had it sent to the address where we were getting ready to live at and just threw the bills away. So I never found out about this thing until six years later, seven years later.

So the $68 in purchasing ended up, they sent me a bill for about $800, started threatening to put liens on trucks that I no longer owned, and they were going to garnish my wages and all of that stuff. And I talked to the debt collector and I broke it, I broke it in half and they said, you can settle for this amount in two payments. And so I paid half one week and I paid half the next week, you know, each check that I got and I was done with it. Well, now it's two years later and some law firm is coming at me the same kind of way they're you know we're gonna take you to court we're gonna sue you you're gonna do this you're gonna do that and uh i assume i

assume you didn't get the other deal in writing that that settled the debt i i got they emailed me a confirmation number and a confirmation number of just just an but it didn't state the terms that when you pay these two payments you're clear if they did i don't have it it's um they just gave me a confirmation number not getting that done and not keeping up with it has cost you the rest of this bill right so there's it's i'm just wondering if there's anything i can do pretty much you just dump these guys on the head i they they don't know where i live they don't have my actual email address have you noticed that this is not going to go away until you deal with it um i mean this thing's haunted you for a freaking decade it's three or four hundred

bucks man so just pay it off be done with it move on with your life if it was thirty thousand dollars we talk about putting some effort into it but she took it out without your name you married her you divorced her then she died i mean this is patent place by the time we get through all this soap opera we can't if at the time your divorced wife took out you stole your identity then you could go at the moment you found that out and go this is identity theft i don't know a thing which is technically the truth of this story But good luck after all this soap opera getting that to stick. Right. You have to file a police report on your dead ex-wife.

Yeah. That ain't going to work, man. So I would just either negotiate a settlement with them and, by God, this time get it in writing. Never pay people on an old bad debt unless you've got the deal in writing. Even if you're paying them in full, never pay them unless you've got it in writing. And then keep a copy of the payment to show that it went out, and a copy of the agreement stapled together, hard copy, not electronic copy. If it's an email, print it out, staple the receipt from the wire transfer,

or whatever it is you do. Keep it in a file the rest of your life. Because these people will hunt you down 27 years later. Yes, I know about the statute of limitations. I understand statute of limitations. Good luck. You're dealing with people that are going to hassle your butt, and you're going to have to go to court over $300?

No. No. Just settle the thing. Get it out of your life. But listen, not dealing with it is not a strategy. Hiding from it, ducking, saying I'm off the grid is not a strategy. It's a little tough to stay off the grid in today's world. All right.

David's with us, I think. David is in Alabama. Hi, David. How are you? I'm well, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up?

So here's the deal. I've got about $40,000 of debt. I've got $7,000 of credit cards I'm paying on. I've got a $10,000 card note, and then I have about another $20-some-odd of debt that's gone to charge off that I'm not'm paying on. I got a $10,000 card note. And then I have about another 20 some odd dollars of debt that's gone to charge off that I'm not currently paying on. My question is, I also have two rental properties with five units combined between the two of them. They're profitable investments that I've had for about five years. But what I'm considering doing is to sell them to become debt-free. If I sell both properties, the net proceeds would put me in the black. I could pay off everything I owe and be free and clear, but I would lose potentially a long-term investment that has been profitable.

You'd buy another one. I could. The circumstances that led to me being able to buy these are not likely to repeat anytime soon, and that's my concern is selling myself short in the long term by selling something that I may or may not be able to get back. If you've got a great deal, all you're doing is taking your profits, and you're using them to clean up some of your mistakes, and now that the mistakes aren't haunting you mathematically, you can go ahead and start saving and working towards some wealth building, which might include purchasing some other rental properties later. So no question in your mind, sell the properties, become debt-free?

Yep. Okay. I kind of figured that's what you would say, but I wanted your take. Well, you kind of were going to do it even if you didn't talk to me, weren't you? Well, nothing's decided yet. I know, but the way you structured your sentences, you'd already made this decision. You just wanted me to say it with you. So I'm right with you.

I agree with you. I think you made the right decision. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Thank you. Jennifer is with us in... No, she's not. Put her on hold. I goofed. I'm sorry. On the stage, the debt-free stage in the lobby of ramsey solutions my brain's completely fried al and stacy are with us hey guys how are you well dave we're focused but not

finished all right very cool chris hogan for you there you go good good quote i like it and where do you guys live well we live in san antonio texas a little town outside of san antonio which is uvalde texas got it and all the way up here to do your debt-free screen. That's right. Love it. How much have you paid off? $81,000. In 12 years. 12 months. 12 months. Good. Okay. That's a snail's pace on the other one. And what was your range of income during that year? We started at $150,000, ended at $185,000. Wow. What do you guys do for a living? I am an emergency room nurse, an RN. And I do media relations.

Okay. Very cool. Good for you guys. Well done. What kind of debt was the $81,000? It was a lot of things. Well, for example, we were young and frivolous with our money. I mean, we didn't know each other at the time, but we both had that same kind of pattern.

So that was part of it. And then another part of it, I would say about one-third was credit card debt. So student loans, credit card debt, two car payments, and then really random stuff, like a phone that wasn't paid off, random. So you're just kind of normal. Yeah, I guess so. You borrowed on everything. Exactly, exactly. Okay. How long have you been married normal. Yeah, I guess so. You borrowed on everything. Exactly. Exactly. Okay. How long have you been married? About a year and a half. Okay. So right after you got married, you decided we're not going to be normal anymore. We're going to get this

mess cleaned up. It was too stressful. We had to clean it up. I mean, yeah. So tell me the story. How did that unfold? Well, my mom actually introduced me to Dave Ramsey's Financial Peace University. I was very fortunate, but did not take advantage of the opportunity when I was in my early 20s. I ended up kind of reading your stuff, liking it, not having enough people who were in my life doing the same thing. Sort of forgot about it. We got together, got married, and I was nervous to ask him. But once I did, he was like, let's do it. Let's set up our future. I was nervous to ask him but once I did he was like let's do it let's let's set up

our future I was more than happy to I mean anything that's going to improve our life in every aspect I was open to it so sure not sure why she was nervous but I'm glad she glad she approached me because it definitely is a weight that's lifted off what was the hardest part of this for you all because you you kind of had the young single crazy did stupid stuff thing get married and grow up and we're going to get serious now. But, I mean, that's a big change. You had a lot of change going on. You changed the way you live your life because you got married.

You changed the way you handle money, the way you look at everything. There's a lot of change there. What was the hardest part of that? For me, I guess, you know, like you talked about earlier in the show, choosing. And it was choosing to sacrifice. I chose to put myself in the hole, so I chose to dig myself out with sacrifices. So for me, I'm kind of a big boy. I love food.

I grew up in a family that owned a restaurant, so a lot of my budget when I looked at it was eating out. Fancy, cheap, you name it. I love all types of food. So that was something that we really changed. I started meal prepping on Sundays for the entire week. So it really went from $25 a day per person to more like $5 a day per person. So that shaved off a good amount. It's the little things that you don't realize that really build up. So that's what really got me there. And for me, I really wanted a home, like our home to build, and we didn't have the money for it.

We had to get out of debt first, and it was hard. I wanted a house so badly with my new husband, starting a new life, and we had to wait until we were in the right place. But when you bought all the other stuff, you didn't wait. Right, so that was kind of our penance. That works. Forgive me, Father, for I have sinned. Yes, exactly. It taught us a lesson we won't forget.

I love it. That is great. Well done, you guys. So what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is? You paid off $81,000 in 12 months. Tell yourself no and use the EveryDollar app. And don't just use it to log your expenses. Actually stick with it.

Ooh, that's a big difference. And actually, before we even started, well, actually when we started using the EveryDollar app, it really did feel like we gave ourselves a raise. And then the next day we listened to your podcast and you said, download the app, download the EveryDollar app, you'll feel like you're giving yourself a raise. And that's exactly what it felt like. It's been a blessing, for sure. Very cool.

So you listen to the podcast, you use the app. We took the class. I'm sorry? We took the class. Oh, you went through FPU? Yes. Oh, okay. Wow.

All right. Financial Peace University graduates. Yes. All right. Very cool. Good for you. All right. So who are your biggest cheerleaders?

People in your class, then? I would say, absolutely. We actually talked about that beforehand. You know, I mean, obviously we had family members that supported us. They understood what we were trying to do. But, you know, we went to this class at Oak Hills Church in San Antonio, and they gave us the nine-week course. And they really felt, although we were strangers, they felt like we felt like family. They were talking about stories that you wouldn't talk about with strangers usually, but again,

they didn't feel like strangers. Everybody was each other's cheerleader, for sure. That's cool. That's Max Licato's church. That's a great church. Yes, yes it is. Max was up here the other day. He's a good friend.

Very cool. Well, way to go, guys. Thank you. Very well done. Very well done. Excellent. So, during the 12 months, how hard was it to get the budgeting going? Honestly, I don't know.

I guess maybe because we're newlyweds. We were still in a honeymoon phase, and we were wanting to really work together and learn how to do that together. And we wanted it so badly. We wanted to have freedom together so badly. And so honestly, our budget committee meetings, they turned into a smooth ride pretty quick. And now we have fun doing the first one was pretty difficult. But I would say second, third, it just kind of all fell into place. What was the sticking point in the first one? Oh, gosh. Well, I think Rachel also talked about in her podcast how it was basically when it was the estimations.

She talked about how when they went through the first month, her and her husband, they were way off. Yeah. So for us, it was like not wanting to mess up that budget and we weren't doing it right. And so we spent a lot of time kind of just overthinking it a lot. So it was – and then as the month started rolling by, then we got more comfortable with it. Yeah, well, you got more accurate. Exactly. That's cool.

Get it dialed in. Exactly. Rough edges are buffed off. Well, well done, guys. Very well done. We're proud of you. Thank you. Got a copy of Chris Hogan's Everyday Millionaires book for you.

That's the next chapter in your story. You are well on your way to that. And the only reason you won't be there, just keep walking the baby steps. Keep doing the stuff we teach, and you'll be there before we know it. Very, very well done. Alan Stacy San Antonio, Texas, $81,000 paid off in 12 months, making $150,000 to $185,000. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream.

Three, two, one. We're debt-free! Woo-hoo! We love it! Well done. Very well done, you two. Very, very, very well done. Wow.

Absolutely fabulous. Jackson is on YouTube and sends me this question. Dave, I've got $50,000 worth of debt, 40 of it student loans, five in credit card debt, the other five in medical bills. I really don't know where to begin. Well, you make a list of your debts, smallest to largest, in the payoff balance. My guess is that's going to be a bunch of those tiny little medical bills. You know, if you have medical bills, you probably have $72 owed to diagnostic.

I don't know who diagnostic is, but if you drive near a hospital, you get a $72 bill from them. And you know what I'm talking about. You get all these little mosquito bills flying around your head, little small ones, 40, 50, 80, 110, that kind of stuff. And they just take up a lot of space, a lot of envelopes looking at you when you look at your bill drawer and that kind of stuff. So list your debts, smallest to largest. Pay your minimum payments that are allowed on everything except the smallest one. Do a budget. Squeeze every dollar out of your budget that you can.

Sell so much stuff the kids think they're next. Take an extra job and throw all the money you get from anywhere at that smallest debt. When that smallest debt is gone, take all the money you used to pay on that and any other money we squeeze out of our life and we put it on number two. When that one's gone, number three, number four, number five. What you're going to do is you're going to plow through those medical bills really, really fast. That's probably your smallest ones. And you're going to get a real sense of traction

and excitement. And you're going to lean into this and you're going to work like a crazy person. And Jackson, you're going to get out of debt. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. Thank you for joining us, America. Our question of the day comes from Blinds.com, the number one online retailer of custom window coverings. You get free samples, free shipping,

and with the new promos they run every month, you'll save even more. When you go to Blinds.com, if you want the deal, use the magic word, the promo code RAMSY. Emily is in Texas. My husband and I just started Financial Peace University. We have a little over $1,000 between our retirement funds. Does this mean we've completed baby step one? No.

You cannot cash out your retirement funds for an emergency. You need an emergency fund of $1,000. And that's a separate little account. It doesn't have to be anything fancy. The point is if the alternator goes out on your car, you need to have somebody to fix it. If a tire blows out on a car, you need to have somebody to fix it. A kid gets sick, you need to be able to pay the pediatrician.

And it's little stuff that will knock the breath out of you when you're trying to get started because it's almost as if when you start working on this stuff, things start breaking to see if you're really going to stick with it. It's like this is a test of the emergency. Are you really going to do this network? And that's kind of what happens. So you need the $1,000 that's not in retirement.

That's your baby step one. No more than that. Anything else that's not in retirement, you use to get out of debt. And above $1,000, we don't cash out retirement, though, except to avoid a bankruptcy or a foreclosure if you're facing that kind of thing. Jennifer is with us in California. Hi, Jennifer. How are you? I'm doing okay, Mr. Ramsey. How are you doing?

Better than I deserve. What's up? I am 41. My husband is 44. And we've been through the FPU. I've been through it twice and once as a married couple. I've kind of lost my momentum. We were doing good up until about two years ago. Then my husband wanted to get a credit card to help build our finances before we decided to get a house within the next two to three years. And everything's kind of like fallen from there.

We make about $55,000 a year. We have a combined, we're both in school full-time as well as work full-time. So we both have combined student loans of $25,000. I have a car of $17,000 and combined credit cards of just under $8,000. Yeah. And i feel so overwhelmed right now um the other day my husband said that he want he's been wanting to put this kit on his tahoe which will cost about eight thousand dollars he said he wanted to put on the credit card then do credit break on c and i'm like and i'm so overwhelmed right now. I don't know what to do.

Yeah. Well, I mean, the two of you have to decide how you're going to live your life. I can't decide that for you. You went through Financial Peace University, and you chose not to do anything I taught you. Right. So, I mean, I've told you what to do. I mean, you know, you need to do that stuff. You know, I got to tell you, it's stealing.

Your husband's a thief. He's proposing stealing to run up debt with the full intention of turning around and bankrupting it. That's thieving. And bankruptcy is not thieving. There's good people that get in bad situations, and I'm not mad at people that file bankruptcy. But if you tell me I'm going to run up a bunch of debt so that I can file bankruptcy and not have to pay the bill,

that's the same thing as being a bank robber. You just stole that money. And so your husband has a lack of character that has to be addressed and um you know you guys went through financial peace university but then you went and start taking out credit cards to build up your credit and you know i don't teach that yeah it wasn't what you learned that wasn't what you learned in there so i can only help you if you will do the stuff we teach i can't help you i can't participate in your your craziness i mean you run around doing all this crazy stuff and of course it's not working so i think the two of you need to sit down and talk about how we're going to have a high

quality life over the next 30 years is it going to be we're going to run up debts and file bankruptcy so we can put a lift kit on a Tahoe? That sounds like a 13-year-old child. So, I mean, you're going to have to address this immaturity and address this lack of vision in your household. And the two of you are going to sit down and decide, are we going to grow up or not? Are we going to be big people or are we going to be little people? And there's lots of 54 year old children so you know because a child is based on the way you act it's based on your level of

emotional maturity your level of spiritual maturity and your relation to your ability to do relational things with each other so um i i'm sorry you're overwhelmed, but of course you're overwhelmed. I mean, you poured seeds of weeds in your garden, and then of course you've got weeds in your garden. And so now what are we going to do? Are we going to want a weedy garden, or are we going to hoe it out? Are you going to pull them up by the roots, and we're going to stop doing this stupid butt stuff that isn't working for you? You know, go back to Financial Peace University, both of you.

Get it with a good marriage counselor, because obviously you're not on the same page. Get yourself in a good church. Establish a vision for your household, for your future. Where do you want to be in 30 years as a couple? Are we going to live, thank God it's Friday, oh God it's Monday, our whole lives? You've got to decide these things. The neat thing that will happen for you, Jennifer, is the moment you decide, both of you, and you're firmly committed to living a better life, a more mature life,

the moment you do that, a lot of the anxiety and the sense of being overwhelmed will melt away. The situation will not have changed yet. But just the fact that you're going to deal with the situation, what's killing you is you think this is going to go on forever. And that's where your anxiety and your overwhelm comes from. But even in the exact same mess you're in, once both of you decide, that's it, I've had it, we're going to have a vision where we retire millionaires 30 years from now, and we're going to get about the business of causing those things to happen, and it probably does not involve putting a

lift kit on a Tahoe so that I can bankrupt it. Oh my God. So, you know, you just have to stop and look at these things, and that's what you've got to face. All right, Leslie is with us. Hi, Leslie in California. How are you? I'm good, and yourself?

Better than I deserve. How can I help? Yes, I'm 29 years old, and right now I make about $20,000 a year, and I have $40,000 in debt. So I'm trying to figure out like where to start. Cool. What do you do for a living? Right now I'm currently just working in human resources. Okay.

I just got promoted. Good. Good for you. In 40 hours a week. Yes. Good for you. Okay. You're single?

Well, I do have a partner we have a 10 month old baby but um we don't live together at the moment due to finances okay finances don't usually get worse when you get married they usually get better uh yes it's mainly me um with all the um in the past credit cards and um close accounts that i have from when i was younger so um i just you know i try to pay them off with you know my income um right now i have a twenty thousand dollars that's not that's not what i was saying what i was saying is if you have a child together and you're not getting married because of money money usually gets better when you're married and you work together not worse yeah is money the only thing reason you're not married um no well yeah no that's just that yeah because um we don't live together and then

he lives an hour away and our jobs are in two separate locations okay is there a plan towards becoming married yeah yes there is okay then let's do that sooner rather than later. Okay. You have a baby. I know. I mean, it's not like this isn't going on already, kiddo. I mean, you know, so, yeah, and that'll help you guys put the thing,

and then you combine your problems and you combine your assets. And that's what marriage is about. And that's what's best for this child is long-term. Now, meantime, you can roll up your sleeves and start to attack this debt by working three jobs, but that's stuff to do with a 10-month-old and by yourself. So, you know, again, we need a vision for your family long term and let's take the steps to get there sooner rather than later

that puts this hour of the Dave Ramsey show in the books hey it's Kelly associate producer and phone screener for the Dave Ramsey show if you would like to do your debt free scream live on the show make sure you visit Dave Ramsey dot com slash show and register.

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