The Ramsey Show - App - Nobody Makes Good Decisions When They're Afraid (Hour 1)

Episode Date: March 26, 2020

Ken Coleman, Debt, Career Tools to get you started:  Debt Calculator: http://bit.ly/2QIoSPV Insurance Coverage Checkup: http://bit.ly/2BrqEuo Complete Guide to Budgeting: http://bit.ly/2QEyonc Interview Guide: http://bit.ly/2BuGnZE Check out other podcasts in the Ramsey Network: http://bit.ly/2JgzaQR 

🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. Open phones this hour at 888-825-5225. Joining me this hour, well, for this day of broadcasting, Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author of the book The Proximity Principle, and he's going to take your questions today.

We'll talk money together, all of us will, but we'll also take your questions about jobs and about your careers. Because there's just a lot going on, people are wondering how much they need to put their dreams on the sideline in the middle of a crisis. Some are wondering how they're going to pay their bills next month, like put food in the refrigerator next week. And there's good news on a lot of those fronts. So we're going to talk about all of that. We'll keep some lines available for those of you that want to talk jobs. The phone number is 888-825-5225.

And Ken, you and Rachel and I are doing the Message of Hope tonight, Thursday evening, for those of you tuning in, depending on when you're tuning in, at 7 p.m. Central Time, 8 Eastern, tonight, at DaveRamsey.com, right on the webpage. If you want to get a reminder, just text the word HOPE to 33-789. We're not going to spend two and a half hours teaching a seminar. We're going to do about 30 or 45 minutes between the three of us sitting and having a conversation with you. There are some actual reasons to have hope. A lot of reasons to have hope. And we're going to talk about that tonight. We're going to look at, I think, some really important facets of the collective psyche

of the world right now. This is not just an American problem. This is a global problem where essentially it's almost like a phantom monster has come out of the sky and hit the big stop button on the economy. So this is unprecedented. This is not, you know, an economic pattern that we're dealing with. This is a massive disruption. And with the disruption, there's going to be fallout. And there's no question there's going to be some pain. There's no question there's going to be some uncertainty. But the reality is better days are ahead. And I think, no, I don't think, I believe that better days are closer than we realize. That is not to say, again, that there won't be negative fallout. There will be. You know, we're sitting here today, Dave, three million plus people filed for unemployment last week. Now, I don't want to be insensitive here, but this is not a shock. Anybody paying

attention to what has been happening over the last 10 days to two weeks, this is heartbreaking. No question about it, but not shocking. And what we've got to understand is when you look at the nation and you think about all the restaurants, all of the hotels, all of the clubs, the bars, the tourist areas and attractions, do you think about all those people that are reliant on people showing up with the pocketbook and engaging? This is not that shocking. So what I want people to do is don't hear one more massive piece of nasty news, because it's nasty. That's gnarly. And go, it's getting worse. Well, we knew this was going to happen.

When you shut down companies for three weeks, there's going to be dramatic layoffs. Then what's the flip side to that? The flip side of that is when you reopen them, there'll be a lot of rehiring. And the other side of it is there's a lot of companies that are hiring like crazy because they're trying to serve families during the shutdown. That's right. Between today's report and the other

reports earlier, it appears that due to corona shutdown, we've lost somewhere around 6 million jobs. That's right. And we've got about 65,000 cases as of this broadcast today. Right. And so roughly for every corona case, 100 people have lost their job due to the corona shutdown.

Yeah. That's about the ratio. That's exactly right. So we've got two crises going on. That's right. And depending on who you are, they're affecting you. One of them is affecting you more than the other. That's exactly right.

The good news, what we're going to talk about tonight is a way forward. Yep. There's a way forward. First of all, we're going to talk about tonight, is a way forward. Yep. There's a way forward. First of all, we're going to talk about a way to survive. And we're going to break down the different buckets that everybody falls in. Dave, you've done a masterful job. I'm not going to tease it any more than that, but we're going to break down, hey, if you're in this bucket, here's what you've got to do. If you're here, here's what you've got to do.

If you're here, and what we're going to do is show you a way forward. And more importantly, show you a way that as you move forward and come out and you rise out of the ashes like a phoenix, that you'll never be susceptible of this kind of thing again. And that's what's so important. That's where the hurt comes from. Learn your lesson. I mean, I learned mine when I went broke. I went through my own Ramsey version of a crisis in my 20s because of my stupidity.

I borrowed too much money. Right. Didn't have any money saved. And, uh, the banks got sold. There was an SNL crisis. People started freaking out and outside variables came along and knocked over my little heart house of cards. Uh, and it did a bunch of people, but nowhere near like we've got right this second.

Right. So we've got folks that are terrified and panicking that's right over the medical and terrified and panicking over the economics uh some of you are terrified and panicking over both yep um i'll say it again tonight and i've said it every day on the air for the past two weeks calm down yeah i'm old i've lived through Y2K, Black Monday, 2007, 9-11, 2008-9. I've lived through the Spanish flu. Right. the flu, which has infected and caused more disruption in our business last year than this has this year. Absolutely. We've only had 33 people tested out of 1,000.

Right. Last year we probably had 50, 60 tested and probably had 40 of them with the flu. Now, this is different than the flu, but it's not. It is and it isn't in terms of depending on who gets it is the problem that's right and so you've got to be more careful you got to be thoughtful but the um the cure of the shutdown the corona shutdown the cure is officially worse than the virus now no question question. When you start talking about 6 million people have lost their jobs. And, you know, if you're freaking out about the medical side of it and you're going to send me hate mail, that's fine.

You can because I understand you're scared. Yeah. I understand. I'll just block you on Twitter if you're going crazy. I mean, it's okay. You know, if you're scared, I understand. But if you just you have to calm down. Yeah.

No one makes good decisions when they're panicked. That's right. And depending on which of these things are impacting you and to the degree they're impacting you, you have to have a clear head and good critical thinking skills, and you can work through it. Well, you can. By this time next year, 99.99% of you are going to be just fine. That's right. And I think what you're saying, Dave, is so true. So if you're listening, you're going, okay, I want to be clear, Dave. I want to

calm down. How do I calm down? And I think we know this from psychology, but I'm going to give you a practical answer. What you've got to do is, what are you certain of? What can you be certain of? What can you be certain of in your personal life right now? Make a list today. Top three things you can be certain of in your family and relationships. What can you be certain of? What can you be certain of in your spiritual life? What can you be certain of in your family and relationships. What can you be certain of? What can you be certain of in your spiritual life? What can you be certain of in your professional life? And when you get to a point where you go, okay, I'm certain of this. I'm going to focus on what I'm certain on and what I can do.

And I'm going to stop freaking out about all the unknowns. And remember this. You're not the only one dealing with this. This is a global thing. There's some relief coming. You're going to survive. Hysteria is not going to get you where you want to go. No.

It's going to hold you back. It makes you mean to other people you shouldn't be mean to. Some of you ought to be ashamed of yourself, the way you've been acting. You need to calm down. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. Are high health care costs getting you down? Are you confused trying to navigate your options? Do you wish you could find an affordable affordable biblical solution to your health care costs? Based on New Testament principles, Christian Health Care Ministries, or CHM, helps Christian families, churches, and ministries join together as the body of Christ to share their major health

care costs. Christian Health Care Ministries is the original health cost-sharing ministry, a Better Business Bureau-accred organization, CHM members share to pay each other's medical bills. It's not insurance. It's Christians financially and spiritually supporting each other. It's what Christian Healthcare Ministries has done for over 35 years. And our members have shared over $2.5 billion in medical bills. To learn more, visit chministries.org. That's chministries.org. Christian Healthcare Ministries is a proud sponsor of Dave Ramsey Live Events. chministries.org.

Okay, so at the break, James reminded me, our producer, that the Spanish flu was at the turn of the century, and I was thinking of the swine flu, apparently. Apparently, I was not alive when the Spanish flu came through, but either way, a little minor correction there, Dave. But Dave's always correcting himself. Well, you did say right before you went on that rant that you were old. So I think some people are like, wow, Dave, you look great. He's older than we thought, man. He's like 125 years old. Is that your way of making yourself look better? Because people are like, 125 years old, man.

He's looking great. Dave is vibrant. Just amazing. All right. Kristen is with us in Alabama. Hi, Kristen. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. How can we help?

Hey, Dave. This is actually my first time calling into you, but my mother has listened to you for many, many years, and she's followed a lot of your advice. So I figured I'd come to you myself. Okay. How can we help? I am in.

I got questions for the both of y'all, actually. The first one is I'm in $44,200 in debt total. $5,000 comes from my credit card bills. I have four of them. Student loans, $15,000. Personal loans, $787. And my car loan is $23 good lord okay and i've just recently moved out of my mom's place and this is the first time i've done this all on my own how old are you i'm 30 okay so what's your question?

What do I do to get out of this? You need to sell this car. What's your household? What do you make? What's your income? For disability, $1,345 a month. And with my job, about $450 a week. Yeah, this car.

I don't even know how you qualified to get this loan. Is it co-signed by your mother? No, sir. I got this all by myself. Yeah, so it's a high interest rate then probably. Yeah, this car is insanity, honey. It's killing you. I kind of figured either that or the student loans.

Yeah, well, you can't sell the student loans, but we can sell the car. Get you a hoopty. Yes, sir. Get you a $1,000 car with no payments. So what are you doing for income? What's your job? I have, I got my disability, as I mentioned, and for my job, I'm a call center representative. And you make $450 a week?

Yes, sir. Okay, so you're making $1,700 a month, $1,800 a month. Just about. And due to my disability, I'm having to cut my hours. I can't make above a certain amount, which the question I have for your co-host today is, should I just drop the disability and then just, because I want to move up in the company and I can't do that at the disability. It's hindering me on making more than what I should.

Yeah. What's the nature of your disability? SSI. No, I'm saying what's wrong with you? What's the nature of your disability? Mental and survivors. My father passed away when I was eight years old with lung cancer and brain tumors. And so, I'm sorry, is this the trauma because of your father passing at such a young age for you? Is that what you're referring to?

I showed bits and signs when I was a young child, but after my father passed away, it all came to a head. Okay. Are you seeing somebody? Are you seeing a professional counselor? Psychiatrist and counselor. Okay. Are you making progress? How are you doing? I'm stable. Good. Okay. Enough that you want to move up to the company right yeah so what does moving up to the company look like what would you make if you move up to the company well a lot of my co-workers don't want to give me the exact amount but I'm hoping to make it up to team lead right now I'm a supervisor to the customers whenever the customer hasn't reached you how much would you make it would be above in the $500 range.

Well, you're making $450 now. She answered her own question. Should I move up? I would have to drop disability, and I think the answer is yes, although I would say... You have to move up enough to justify the dropping of it. That's right. So, you know, you've got to run those numbers, but I also want you to talk to your professional counselor or the psychiatrist and say, hey, she's clearly gone from somewhere to stable. And what's the path look like to go from stable to healthy? I want to know that. And then I'd want to run the numbers. Yeah. And then start laying out. That's right. Let's send you a copy of Ken's book, The Proximity Principle, which will help you identify some career directions and some things to do.

It may not be as simple as just moving up to the company. You may have better opportunities that make more money out there when you start just rethinking, hey, what am I going to do with my life? That's right. I'm 30. When I'm 40 or 50, what do I want to be making? What do I want to be doing? And in the meantime, you need to get rid of this car, kiddo.

It's absolutely destroying your mathematics it's just destroying your finances rob is with us in florida hey rob welcome to the dave ramsey show thank you very much first time caller and if you ask me how i'm doing probably Uh-oh. How can I help? Well, I inherited money about 10, 13 years ago. It was advised to me to just leave it alone. I'd probably be well over $2 million in the bank at this point. I am a spender, and in watching your budgeting program, I am that free spirit with just a very tiny bit of nerd, but I'm unchecked at the free spirit level. I bought a lot in Florida two years ago doing a margin loan from my investments with a national investing company.

My initial loan was about $90,000. I've been unemployed often on the last year and a half. Um, and I've drawn more out of that. I've never sold the assets off with the intent of paying them back at some point. When I bought the lot, I told myself I would give myself a year. It's an RV lot. I live in my RV year round. I said I would sell off the assets in a year if I decided I wanted to stay there. I'm now two years later. The company called me last week saying there's a possibility that they may recall the margin loan. So now instead of selling off the assets back when the market was at $28,000, $29,000, if they recall it after this dump, I may be in trouble.

So how much, you have a $90,000 margin call loan, and how much is in the investment account now? So my total investment is a little over $300,000. The margin loan is showing about $132,000, and this is in mutual funds. Why are you not working? I had some personal issues around the first of the year. I've been applying for jobs, but I have not had a lot of luck getting them. Prior to that, I was making $65,000, $70,000 a year. I can go into that at a later date. So I've got about $8,600 in a traditional IRA, $20,000 in a Roth.

Yeah. So the bottom line, though, is you're going to end up liquidating $130,000 of your $300,000 to pay this margin call. You don't have a choice because your lot is not going to sell fast enough to cover the margin call. Correct. Absolutely. I understand that. What is lesson number one? The first lesson of this conversation is never borrow money on your investments.

Okay. That's lesson one. Pay cash out of your investments for an item or do not buy the item. Correct. But now instead of having investments and a loan and a lot, now you just have a paid-for lot and less investments. That's okay. Correct.

That's not the end of the world. As long as the lot doesn't lose all its value, you'll be fine on that. And then, you know, the career side of things, again, can – If he made $65,000 before the $70,000, he can make it again, and he's got to get there to take some of that pressure off. There's no reason prior to this coronavirus crisis that somebody who has made the kind of money he's made before couldn't be working. And he's got to, it's not about applying. It's about connecting. It's about getting serious to say, this is what I want to do. Who do I know that can get me an opportunity? You've got to really

dig deep, and the economy is going to rebound. We have a fundamentally strong economy. Jobs are going to be there. He's got to take care of this, Dave, and then he's got to get working. Rob, check KenColeman.com and download the proper way to do an application. That's right. A resume guide. A resume and all that's completely free, and we'll send you a copy of his book, The Proximity the proximity principle as well this is the dave ramsey show I'm going to go ahead and get going. asia is with us in texas says on my screen asia you're debt free austin texas how are you i am wonderful how are you doing better than i deserve how much have you paid off? I paid off $43,000.

Very cool. And how long did this take? Took me three and a half years. All right. And your range of income during that time? I started about $20,000 take-home pay and got it up to about $30,000. Good for you. What do you do for a living?

I do administration primarily and then face painting on the side. Very cool. What kind of debt was the 43? It was a mixture of three main things. It was credit cards and then government loan and then a personal loan for my car. Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah. So what happened three and a half years ago that put you on this journey? I was just not able to handle anything. I had no money. I didn't know what to do. I had finally scrawled away a tiny bit of money and I was begging my parents. I'd asked my dad again. I said, what can I do? I have a little bit of money. I have $600. I have $800. How can I invest it? What can I do? And he said, you know, did you ever read that Dave Ramsey book I gave you a little while ago?

I said, no. No? I mean, I did. But it was... Been using it as a coaster on my coffee day. Yeah, right. It was too hard. I was like, $1,000.

I was like, that's for somebody that makes money. And so he put me through FPU. Bless him. It was so wonderful, and I saw the very first video, and it changed everything. I was just like, oh, my God, this guy is funny. This is good. It was so touching. It was meaningful. It just changed everything. And I realized that I had never budgeted a day in my life. The spreadsheet queen had never done an actual budget. Yeah, I learned that, you know, at the nice little age that I am, I learned that I needed to budget and it changed everything, just absolutely everything.

So it's been amazing it's been phenomenal well congratulations we're very very proud of you well done so i assume your dad and mom were your biggest cheerleaders they were my biggest cheerleaders they were always helpful always there for me um my my other dad i have two families my other dad would call me every month and say, how are you doing? How much did you pay on your debt this month? How are you doing? And I had my best friends were helping me. My shopping buddy became my budget buddy. Love it.

Yeah, it was great. I had help all the way around. My boss was giving me extra work and extra money whenever she could and sending me home with groceries, and it was just phenomenal. I had so much support. Aisha, I want to ask you this. You're getting ready to do that debt-free scream. Have you allowed your mind to kind of wonder a little bit about what could be next in your career? What are you going to do from a work standpoint? Because you've been so focused with two jobs to pay off a substantial amount of debt. What's next for you?

Yes, sir. And actually, you helped me along that journey, too, because I called you and you answered my call when I called in about the government loan. I am looking at getting licensed to do mortgages and real estate. And that's my next step that I'm looking forward to. And taking that along with face painting and just any other work that I can get right this second, I'm excited. Wow, I love that. Tell folks why getting debt-free and how getting debt-free has freed your head and heart up to get after this and how it's going to make it so much easier to pursue that work you love. Just the fact that I don't have bills like I had before.

It's just so simple. It's just rent and just electric bills. I don't have 12 credit cards. I don't have a loan to somebody that I care about that's creeping over me or the government threatening to garnish my wages. I mean, it's just, it's a night and day distance. And I just cannot thank yourself, Ken Coleman, and especially Dave Ramsey and your guys' entire team has just been phenomenal, motivating, just there.

And all of the different avenues and ways that you reach out to everybody and support everybody, all the free ways that you support us and all of the programs that you offer, they're just phenomenal. I can't thank you guys enough. And just being debt-free is just, I feel free. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love saving money. Well, you're a hero, kiddo.

We're proud of you. I know your mom and dad are. And we got a copy of Chris Hogan's book for you, Everyday Millionaires. That is going to be the next chapter in your story, and you got a great story ahead of you. Looking forward to it. All right, it's Aisha in Austin, Texas,

$43,000 in three and a half years, making $20,000 to $30,000 a year. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. Oh, dude. Yeah. Very nice. I love it.

That's fun. That is fun. That is fun. Guys, our leadership team gathered up on Monday with businesses all across America having the coronavirus shutdown. And, you know, our team moved last week, last Friday, to home, working from home. A lot of people have just been simply laid off, lost their jobs. And so we put together some things, some thoughts. We thought we've got to find some ways to help you guys while you're at home and just find some ways to help some of you that are getting your wake-up call

in the middle of the nation getting a wake-up call. And we're not here to say I told you so or to beat you up or something like that. We just want to help you. So go to DaveRamsey.com slash hope. On that page is a bunch of unbelievably discounted items to where there's no profit in them hardly and free items. One of the items there is something we've never done in 30 years. This week, in response to you being home for 14 days, we're giving you, anyone, a free 14-day trial to Financial Peace University.

A free trial for 14 days to Financial Peace University. It's all online, and you can take all nine classes binge watch that instead of netflix baby that's what i was gonna say no brainer just jump in there and you know we got stuff on there like ken's book the proximity principle if you're worried about job stuff you're looking at that he's the guy on this ken coleman is a ramsey personality for your jobs for your careers and that book at the uh the audio book we put it on there for a dollar 99 okay and we put the total money makeover audio book on there for a dollar 99 these are all digital things you don't have to have anybody delivered to your house just into

your computer right we've got the high school curriculum some of you are home school teachers and you didn't even want to be that's the truth you got some high schoolers and they need something to do well our high school curriculum homeschool version is usually over 100 bucks we've got in there right now for 1999 it will never be like this again it has never been like this before and so check all this out it's at at DaveRamsey.com slash hope. And also be sure to tune in tonight at 7 p.m. Central Time. Ken Coleman, Rachel Cruz, and I are doing a message of hope because hope is greater than fear. And we're doing a message of hope tonight,

a live stream off the front page of our website, and just let people know everywhere. Just go to DaveRamsey.com tonight, 7 p.m. Central, 8 p.m. Eastern. It's a live stream, and we'll be going for 30 to 45 minutes or so. We're not going to go for two hours, but we're not going to go for 10 minutes either. So get you some popcorn, settle in. We're going to be there a little while, but we're going to give you some, you know, where we think things are and where we think they're going

and give you some reason you know, where we think things are and where we think they're going and give you some reason to believe because fear has just taken over our culture. And I, you know, sometimes I'm afraid, but I don't make good decisions when I'm afraid. Nobody does. You can't see clearly. And if you can't see clearly, you're not thinking clearly and you're not going to act wisely. You cannot do it in the face of fear. Joining me this day on the Dave Ramsey Show, Ken Coleman, number one best-selling author of the book

The Proximity Principle, Ramsey Personality, talking about jobs, and I'm talking about money, and we're helping you with both. We both jump in on each other's stuff all the time, so just feel free to jump in here, and we'll help you. The phone number is 888-825-5225. Thank you for joining us, America. Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, number one bestselling author of the book The Proximity Principle, joins us as we talk about money and jobs right here on The Dave Ramsey Show.

Up next is going to be Jonathan in New Hampshire. Hey, Jonathan, how are you? joins us as we talk about money and jobs right here on the Dave Ramsey Show. Up next is going to be Jonathan in New Hampshire. Hey, Jonathan, how are you? I am blessed. So my question is, my wife and I just started Baby Step No. 2 through FPU, and the last debt we'll have, the largest one is my student loans. But I work in the health care field for a nonprofit, so I'm wondering once I get down there, do we keep snowballing into it or do we just keep paying minimums and go right to step three

until I know whether or not it will be forgiven? Well, the track record on student loan forgiveness is horrible. Hundreds of thousands. Yeah, 98% are declined. Yeah, 98% are not getting it. And so it's basically a government scam is what it has come down to. That's the net result of it. So I wouldn't sit around and wait on them to do it.

I would just plow right through it as fast as you possibly can, like it was a credit card debt or anything else. You just got to clean them up. So what's your total debt, including your student loans? Including student loans is about $136,000. Okay. And what's your household income? It's about $140,000.

Good, good. Okay. So when do you anticipate having them all done? When do we think we'll have all of them done? Yeah, we could probably do it within like three years tops maybe. Yeah, that's what it sounds like to me. I agree. I like your numbers.

Yeah, I would just blow right through it, and I wouldn't even blink. Obviously, if the government in some kind of a stimulus package starts sending out checks, take them. But I don't think it's going to make a big difference. The big difference is you having gotten control. You've laid out a plan you see what you can do and you know you've got a good number on that that three-year number is a good number with the numbers you're giving us the ratios are good i'd have at it yeah i um ken i um it really wasn't his question but around his question is one that you and i hear a lot i run into people um staying in substandard jobs not necessarily him he's making some good money but they're staying in a job that they don't like and money that is 50 60 percent of what they could be making right

in an effort to get their student loan forgiven, and then it's not going to be. That's right. And, boy, there's some real heartache coming around that issue in the future, isn't there? Yeah. I mean, just imagine. You just keep expecting the government to show up one day with that gift on the front door, and they're just not going to. The chances of that happening are very, very small. And it's been kind of like the old cartoon where you kind of dangle the stick with the meat on the end of it and make the been a it's been kind of like that old the old cartoon where you kind of dangle the stick

you know with the meat on the end of it and make the dog chase it and it's just really an unfortunate situation and and i'll tell you that one of the reasons that people will stay in a job like that is if they'll take that excuse because that excuse feels safer than changing their location yeah i really want to dive into this and not to make anybody who's in this situation not feel bad not this guy it's not his situation no but i'm addressing your question and i want people that are in this situation to hear what i'm saying i'm not getting on you what i'm saying is we know that change is one of the greatest fears the unknown that's involved with change is a huge fear for humans. And so understand, don't feel badly about this, but you need to acknowledge this and understand that this is a big deal.

And if you can get through the lack of, oh, I don't know exactly how it's going to end up. I don't know where it's going to go. There are certain things we don't know. But we do know that if I step out and I've qualified and I've got a good work ethic and I'm a likable person, I'm going to be able to do the job and I'm going to be able to make it. Don't make all these excuses. Well, what if it doesn't work out? Here I know what I know. And see, that's what it really boils down to.

Nobody wants to say. The devil that I know. That's it. Okay, I know this and it's not great, but it's safe. Safe isn't always so smart. Safe is also not safe. That's the. Okay, I know this, and it's not great, but it's safe. Safe isn't always so smart. Safe is also not safe. That's the other thing. Because the illusion is, I've talked to people that say, I'm making $50,000 a year, but I get my health insurance furnished.

Over at the other place, I have to pay $300 a month, but I can make $30,000 more. Well, $300 a month, Yeah. I'll take that. That's $3,600. That's right. I think you came out $27,000 ahead, but somehow they go, oh, I can't lose my benefits. That's right. And they put a 10x value on the benefit. But some of that is I'm comfortable and I don't want to get out of my comfort zone.

And let me tell you one other factor. I hear this on my show almost every day. My friends or my family say that I would be crazy to leave this stable job with those stable benefits. And let me tell you what's going on there. Your parents or your family members or your friends, they are not bad people. They mean well. But they are advising you based on their own fears. Yeah.

And by the way, they have so much influence over us. You know, my grandpa worked for 38 years at Alcoa Aluminum. Right. And when he retired, he was head cost accountant, had one job, basically his working lifetime, because he went broke during the Great Depression and was just thankful to have that job. Right. And so my granny, rest her soul, bless her sweetheart, I was making more in a month than I did in a year at the job two years before.

Right. And she was worried about me. She kept asking me when I was going to get a real job. Right. Right. Because for that generation, that was a safe, real job. Self-employed, doing whatever was crazy. Risky. Because it's not guaranteed. But I'll tell you what is guaranteed. That was a safe, real job. Self-employed, doing whatever was crazy.

Risky. Because it's not guaranteed. But I'll tell you what is guaranteed, nothing. That's exactly right. So if you have the skill set, folks, and you have the work ethic, and you're a nice, likable person, guess what? Your chances of succeeding in a new industry or a new job are very high. Now, if you're delusional and you try to go get a job and you lie to people and you don't have the skills, the chops to pull it off, but that's your fault. That's your problem.

That's a different thing. And we're not talking to those kind of people. So we just always want everybody to get out of their nest because it is the scariest and most wonderful adventure of your life to constantly be pushing yourself out of your own nest. I mean, Dave, if we watch your journey, your audience knows your journey. There is no progress without change. So I got news for you. If you want to make progress in your relationships, in your marriage, or in your parenting, in your healthy relationships with coworkers and other individuals, I don't care.

Your physical health, your nutritional health, guess what? Change is – progress is predicated on change. You cannot grow in any area of your life if you don't change. I love in your talks, you go, change, and you do that little clap because it's that kind of a decision. Yeah, you just have to decide. And here's the problem. If you're not growing, there is no such thing as status decision. Yeah, you just have to decide. And here's the problem. If you're not growing, there is no such thing as status quo. No, you're dying.

That's absolutely right. So you're either going up or back all the time. Yeah. And so, you know, whether it's your money, whether it's your career choice, your job choice. Some of you are sitting in a mess right now. And so anything's going to be better than what you've got right now. That's right. That's a good thing.

It's time to go. Will Rogers, a great American, once said, even if you're on the right path, if you're just standing in the middle of the road, you're still going to get run over. And he's right. But people make excuses. Well, I'm in a good company, Dave. I'm in a stable industry. Well, you're getting run over in some form or fashion if you're not moving forward. That's how it works.

Blinds.com gives us our question of the day. A 100% satisfaction guarantee means even if you mismeasure or you pick the wrong color, they'll remake your window blinds for free, free samples, free shipping, and new promos all the time. Use that magic word to get the deals. Ramsey. All right, Ken. Demi in Arizona says, is a HELOC supposed to be in Baby Step 2, or does this get added to Baby Step 6?

Can you refinance the HELOC and the home mortgage together to get a lower rate? Good financial question. Oh, you're hitting me with that one? The jobs guy? I'm going to throw you under the bus. You know what? I'm very confident on a mic and on a stage, but sitting next to you with a HELOC question, I just ah i think it's baby step two that's where i put it

it's dead baby step two if it's less than half your annual income see there you got me on a technicality but at least i went with babies you got you got a strike so if you got a heloc that's 60 000 and you make 60 000 then it's baby step six got it that makes sense i would look at refinancing your house then yeah you would look at doing that so um baby step six if it's a big dog he lock more than half your household income in a year and um move it to baby step six and you probably do want to refinance it in that case especially while these rates are down like right get in touch with churchill mortgage and get you some of these fabulous rates that are happening right now. Any of you got adjustable rates? It's time to get out of them, baby. Ken Coleman is my guest today on The Dave Ramsey Show.

Co-host today on The Dave Ramsey Show. Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author of the book, The Proximity Principle. This is The Dave Ramsey Show, and we'll be back. Hey, guys, it's George Campbell, host of The Dave Ramsey Show video channel. This hour is up, but you can find more great content on our YouTube channel. Catch the most watched Dave rants, get free screams, and the very popular Everyday Millionaire segments.

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