The Ramsey Show - App - Not Calling Out Red Flags Is NOT an Act of Love (Hour 2)

Episode Date: November 3, 2020

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🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us. Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host this hour. Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Sarah is with us to start off this hour in Oklahoma City. Hi, Sarah. How are you? Good, Dave. How are you?

Great. How can i help um um we just had a real estate question um my husband and i own um three rental properties and um we're thinking about selling one and just kind of wanted to get your thought why would you sell it um well um our renters moved out after living in there for five years, and it's kind of the nicest house on the worst street sort of situation. And so we're finding that what it's worth, we're not able to get the rent for because people would rather just go to nicer streets. And then so we have to lower the rent. And then, long story short, we didn't know if we should just sell it and use, because it's paid for,

and we could use it to pay off what little debt we have and then buy another rental free and clear. Okay. That sounds fun. Is your home paid off as well? It is, yes, sir. Way to go. Good job. And so you've got a little bit of non-mortgage debt.

Is that what you're saying? Well, yes, sir. We just have like a line of credit of like $25,000, which is on a rental. And so if we sold this rental, we could pay that off and have enough left over to go buy another rental, maybe not as nice as a rental or, you know, something that might rent a little easier than this one. Sounds like a great plan. Why would you not do this?

Okay. Well, that's what we're planning to do. Have you thought of any reasons against this decision? The only reason would be it's in an area that is like the area of our city. It's harder to find rentals in that area. But at the same time, we're on a street that is going down in value instead of going up. So we thought, well, we might as well get out. I think you're making a good decision.

I don't hear any reason that you gave me to keep this property. You could be debt-free and have another property that's going up in value paid for as a result of this. And every single thing, you're 100% debt-free when you do this. I love that plan. Very clean, very crisp, very simple. Ken, there's something to be said, whether it's working with a career in your area or with money stuff that you and I are talking about here on the air. There is a value that ends up in your wallet,

but you don't see directly how it's going to get there. When you get things clean, simple, crisp, and, you know, there's a little bit of it gives you emotional margin in your life. When everything's not stressing you out, whether it's work stress or investment stress or debt stress or whatever it is. When you don't have that, you have a tendency to add other prosperity to your wallet. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, it's really about clarity.

You know, you were talking about how clean and how crisp this is. It's another way of saying this is a very clear choice. They're going to win big on this. They make major progress. They eliminate all debt, and they still have money to buy another rental property, clear and free, and it just begins to build and build and build. And so what happens there that you're describing is when we see clear options and then we can move forward on those options and we stay in a place of clarity, which is why, again, the baby steps work. You just play it out. You don't ever go back to debt.

And so you're able to see clearly once you remove debt, once you're working in a place that you're in your sweet spot, you use what you do best to do work you love, to produce results that matter to you. You see clearly for the first time, this is what work is supposed to feel like. This is what my contribution is. And for the rest of your life, now that you've seen there, you've been to that mountaintop, if you will, and you've seen what it's supposed to look like, it changes your perspective on everything. And that's why clarity is so important.

It's a little bit like it kind of works the same way if you've ever played a sport or done something that's very intense and very fast. And they talk about in sports the game is slowed down for him, meaning there's enough reps. Like, I barefoot water ski, which we do at 42 miles an hour. It's very intense. One little ripple, one little move of a toe, and you're tumbling. It feels like concrete. Very intense.

And, you know, so the mistakes are costly. If you mistake, you feel it. I feel it for two days. I'm 60 years old. And so I'm sore from it. But after having done it for a long, long time and a whole lot of reps, it's slow to me. And yet everything around you is moving very, very fast. And it's just a very calm, the water's smooth, it's pretty out there.

Put your feet in the water at 40 miles an hour and stand up. But you see, like I was watching one of the college quarterbacks the other day, and you could tell he was playing scared. The game was really fast for him. He was frenetic. He was all over the place. And there's something about our finances, our personal life, our marriage, our career that does the same thing when we get this margin in there,

when there's some wiggle room and everything's not so tight. So what she's going to gain there is this intangible that the game will slow down for her. There's a great story that's been told so many times about the famous, probably one of the top three quarterbacks of all time, Joe Montana, and he was in the Super Bowl, and we all know that the Super Bowls have longer commercials, and so they were in a commercial break, and if you've ever been to a live football game, both teams will get out in their prospective huddles and they're just kind of standing around waiting for this guy on the sideline with an orange glove to

signal into the referee that, hey, we're back from TV break. And so it's been well told that they were in the Super Bowl. This is in the 80s. And they were in their opponent's end zone and say they were about two minutes left in the game, two-minute drill. They've got to win the game. They've got to score to win the game. Famous two-minute drive. Famous two-minute drive. They've got to win the game. They've got to score to win the game. Famous two-minute drive.

Famous two-minute drive. We all know no greater pressure in the world than the Super Bowl. So he's standing there, and they were going to loose huddle, and he was looking around in the end zone behind him, and he noticed John Candy, the famous comedian back in the day, and he says to the offensive lineman, Hey, guys, check it out. John Candy's here watching the game.

I wonder who he's rooting for. And within seconds of making that comment, the signal comes in from the sideline, it's time to go, they blow the whistle, and he goes into leader mode, and he's practiced that two-minute drill countless times. He's watched film, he knows how that team is going to defend the two-minute drill, he knows what plays they're calling, he knows where the receivers are going to be going, he knows how quickly he's got to get rid of the ball. The point is, they've practiced

the plan. They've got a plan. And it struck his offensive lineman that in this moment of great pressure, he's chilled. He's just looking around, noticing celebrities in the crowd. And that calmness comes from confidence in the plan. Confidence in his ability to execute the plan.

And the confidence comes from the reps. That's right. Over and over again. There's emotional, and in his ability to execute the plan. And the confidence comes from the reps. That's right. Over and over again. And there's emotional, and in his case, physical, margin that allows the game to slow down. His heartbeat's chilled. Yeah, the game slows down. Yeah. Yeah, cooler than the other side of the pillow.

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Today's question comes from Larry in Missouri. I've been with my current company 15 years, but have recently been offered a chance to lead a startup in a new division within another company. It would be a significant pay raise. It would help me get out of the debt this year. My current employer is asking what it would take for me to stay here. I think they would match the salary and possibly exceed it. My current employer is very financially stable, and my job here is safe.

Am I crazy for considering a new company during this pandemic economic recession? Well, let's answer that last question first. No, it doesn't make you crazy to consider any new opportunity, even though we are in the aftermath or we're still in the embers of some of the economic shutdown. Well, the zombies are out and the monsters are out. Yeah, that is true. Oh, wait. No, I'm talking about Election Day, not Halloween. So the issue is this the the same questions you're asking in times like

these versus times that are uh are good are the same is this a good culture uh is this a stable company and then we look at is the job a great fit for me so first of all i would go back to the employer the main question there is what do i do do if I think that my current employer will pay me what I've been offered with this new opportunity or maybe more? I'd say, yeah, give them that opportunity. Say, hey, look, I'm trying to win financially. I want to pay off debt. This new opportunity, this new company is giving me an offer. It's a new division in another company.

In a different company versus – New division is not – I mean, that sounds exciting. A little bit of an ego stroke that you get to lead a new division. But there's also some extra risk with that. That's right. I think I'm trying to read between the lines here. I had to answer that question for them.

Tell them what it would take to stay there. Tell the current employer. Yeah. They're asking, so I give them an answer. So what is it about, other than the money, what is it about the new place that's exciting? I didn't hear the evidence. If he's calling the Ken Coleman show, I'm going to go, well, wait a second.

This is never about just money. Is this in your sweet spot? And the way I define the sweet spot is very simple. Well, it's a significant raise. If your employer matches the significant raise, then why would you even consider it? It would have to be there's something else that's more exciting a better ladder a ladder to the dream i'm thinking i'm thinking he may think there's more advancement opportunity because he's heading up a new division right but again i would tell you advancement opportunity on the right ladder i can't tell

you how many times dave i'll get people calling the ken coleman show saying hey i took a promotion and it's been six or eight months, and I'm miserable, and you nailed something. It always feels good when somebody calls and tells us, hey, we want you, and we're going to give you a raise. Those are two things that we really love as human beings. Well, it's affirmation. Yeah, it's wonderful.

It's approval. Yeah, it's wonderful. We all like that. Anybody tells you you're good, it's the opposite of being fired. I mean, you know, we'll tell you you're not good. Yeah. And so, good, it's the opposite of being fired. I mean, you know, you're not good. And so, yeah, that's a big deal. So, Ken, we're giving away the marketing team has a spiritual gift of giving away my money. I had it for several years at live events.

You would give away my money. You did give away thousands of dollars of my money. You did do that. I love it. So it's Christmastime, believe it or not, since Halloween's over. That makes it Christmastime, right? That's right. So I think we just forgot about Thanksgiving, but can't sing the old Thanksgiving song, apparently.

No. You can't belt out the Thanksgiving Eve song that they were going to do in California because they're not allowed to sing in Thanksgiving in California. So we're not going to do Thanksgiving. We're going to go straight to Christmas since we can't sing the old Thanksgiving song. I'm not sure what that was, but there was one apparently that Californians used to sing. I didn't know that. I missed that. The governor asked them not to sing at their Thanksgiving dinners.

Oh, right, because we don't want to expel the corona at the table. Spew it, yes. Corona spewer. Don't be a spewer. How can you sing when you have the mask on in between bites? How can you? Well, I just didn't know there was a Thanksgiving song, so it never came up to me. That's all I was thinking about.

Oh, you didn't get past the Thanksgiving song. So since we're not doing the Thanksgiving song this year, we're going to go straight to Christmas. We're going to give away $500 a week between now and Christmas. A $5,000 grand prize. Of course, there's no purchase necessary. Just go to DaveRamsey.com. Check out all the goodies we've got there. We've got the $10 special on Ken's book, proximity principle on my books on Rachel's books Hogan's books

Anthony's books Deloney's books whoever they're $10 check them all out all kinds of number one bestsellers they're 10 bucks each and be sure to register to win at least once a day well don't register more than once a day it's a waste because that's all we count it's one a day but we're going to do a drawing once a week for $500 and a grand prize of $5,000 every $500 per week between now and Christmas. And that's only 27 weeks away. No, I'm kidding. Feels like it, doesn't it? DaveRamsey.com slash giveaway.

Be sure and visit the website at DaveRamsey.com. Check it out. Taylor is with us. Taylor is in Fresno, California. Hi, out. Taylor's with us. Taylor is in Fresno, California. Hi, Taylor. How are you? I'm good. How are you, Dave? Better than I deserve. What's up? So I barely started watching your videos a couple weeks ago, and right now I'm on baby step two. So I only have student loans, including some personal loans that I took out with some family members to get me through school. I don't have any credit cards, and my car is paid off.

So right now I'm trying to decide how to go about paying back my student loans, especially because it's 0% interest. I haven't made any payments before. Did you graduate? And I graduated in December of last year. Okay, cool. Yeah, so right after I got out, then COVID happened, and I wasn't making any payments. I wasn't required to, so this would be the start of it.

But I'm having a hard time thinking of how to do that because I'm going to be experiencing kind of some big life changes soon. Currently, I'm living with my family rent-free. I'm not making a lot of money because of the pandemic. I'm at Target and I'm making $20,000 a year. What's your degree in? What's your degree in?

I'm sorry? What's your degree in? My degree is in marketing, but I live in Fresno, California. So, what's that mean? I don't do marketing in Fresno? There's not a lot of opportunity to grow here, and so I would kind of need to move. There's no opportunity for marketing in Fresno, California?

Of course there is. I would say more specifically for what I want to do, I want to do cosmetic marketing and luxury retail marketing, and that just doesn't exist here. So are you open to moving to places where that does exist? Yeah, so that's kind of what I'm getting to next is I'm actually waiting for my boyfriend to immigrate here. He's coming from Russia, and he's going to be immigrating here in just a few months.

And we both want to move down to Los Angeles together. He wants to work at LAX, and I want to do some marketing down there. And there's just so many moving parts that it really scares me to start draining my savings and start paying for my student loans. It should. That should scare you. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, this is unwise, and that's why it would scare you. Because you just painted up this fantasy situation that exists in L.A. in your mind and doesn't exist. If you can't find a way to do high-end cosmetic marketing in a city the size of Fresno, you are going to get slayed in L.A. This is not about the city. This is about you. And your mom and dad are dead set against your whole plan aren't they um i wouldn't say that i would say they've been pretty supportive but they are scared of the prices of rent for sure well it sounds to me like your perspective on this la thing

you've not applied you've not found any jobs am i wrong on that um i actually did have a job lined up after college but it fell through yeah but i'm not talking about the past i'm talking about as we speak today and you go we want to move to la me and the boyfriend and all this business do you have something lined up do you have some prospects at least some targets um i will say i haven't been as active as I should be in applying because it's so uncertain of when my boyfriend is coming, and I just don't feel comfortable moving down there by myself and handling rent by myself. If you were my daughter, here's what I would tell you.

You need to stay separated from him until you establish yourself as a confident young woman in a career field. I think you're chasing a fantasy here that sounds very romantic and very different, and I think you are about to step in it. The bear trap's going to snap on your leg, kiddo. You need to establish your own independence as a sharp young lady, and then you'll be in a position to make better decisions about relationships. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, is my co-host this hour. I am Dave Ramsey, your host. Open phone is at 888-825-5225. 225 225 can um unfair to our last caller to head into a break and um drop that and to our listeners without some history okay i'm a 60 year old dad who has raised grown kids and has six grandkids I support ministries on sex trafficking and slavery to end it all over the world.

I just spoke to two young men here in the lobby just a few minutes ago that was meeting with our family foundation that are from England working on the same issues. It turns out not everyone is who they say they are. Shocking when you are sweet and young and naive. Moms and dads, not everybody is who they say they are. Now, not everyone immigrating from Russia is a bad person, and I'm certainly not saying that. I would have great admiration from someone wanting to leave communism and come to the greatest country in the world.

But not everyone coming from Russia, attaching themselves as a boyfriend, meet me in L.A., we'll shack up together, is who they say they are. This I know. And so I don't know that that particular young lady is getting ready to be the victim of a catfish um but uh a scam but it's very it's as possible as possible in addition to that and let me tell you what lends credence to that okay i'm just the old guy that loves my daughters okay and is wise and um uh the way you get wise is you observe evil and you observe stupid and you are a victim to it a few times and it teaches you wisdom the hard way and so uh the fact that she has no

freaking plan about where she's going to live how she's going to eat or what her job is, and has not applied herself to her career field at home in Fresno, tells me that same part of her brain that's not doing that is maybe susceptible to being harmed in a scam relationship situation. Now, that all went through my head, and I didn't say it out loud, but it's fair to our listenership to say that out loud, that that's why I'm saying that. That's why I said your parents are against it, because I was hoping and praying that her parents were speaking up, but they feel like they're not allowed to say anything. Yeah, they were somewhat supportive. And so here's what's going on. There is calculated risk where we look at it and we say, okay, I'm going to go whitewater rafting,

and I know that if I pay attention to the guide and I watch the video and I get in and I don't do something stupid in the boat, there's a chance that I'm going to get thrown out of the boat and I might bruise something, I might break something. But that's a calculated risk. I just jumped out of an airplane the other day skydiving yeah and and you were trained yeah you had a you had you're attached to somebody who knows what they're doing there was really automatic uh computer deployment on the chute yeah if we got below a certain yeah altitude at a certain speed these guys have done this thousands and thousands of times um i didn't just go jump out of an airplane right and that's what la looks like

here i'm going to wait till the russian boyfriend shows up then we're going to move together then i'm going to try to find something in los angeles which spits people out in about 30 minutes if you if you have a decent plan if it's not shut down by governor well there's that too and and you've got an economy that has been severely artificially suppressed there. So she just didn't have a plan. And it's not, you don't have to take the jump off the cliff. Chasing the dream is not as romantic as they make it out in the movies. It's not, we, and we just hope it works out. No, I mean, it is, it is a plotting practical plan and you take steps and you got to earn it along the way. You don't just show up in la

and get the high glitz high glamour marketing job so there just wasn't any kind of a plan behind that which scares me about the every element of the plan everything about that is too uncertain for her i'm not affected i'm not going to la so it doesn't affect me i'm not going to meet a russian person that i've never met in a relationship with and that so it doesn't affect me but you know she called us to ask us what to do and i i have to try to love someone that's calling here well and tell them the truth um but i i i fear i didn't um if i had said all of that, I don't think it would have done any good because I think she's going to do whatever she's going to do. You gave great advice.

I think establishing her own career as an independent woman, and then we work the relationship out. But I'm just not a fan of somebody that, if he's not willing to put a ring on it, you shouldn't be willing to move to a city with him, shack up, and try to support him while he gets going. You establish yourself first. If he loves you and he's committed and he's in for the long haul and i say this is a guy that's been married almost 23 years then he'll wait and he'll be fine and i would tell my daughter josie that well oh by the way he will go establish himself and prove

himself to be an actual reality and not mythology. That's true. Yeah. There's a little test market here we're doing, you know, just to establish. We call it in the business proof texting. We put something in the market to prove out the theory, to prove out the hypothesis before we launch the whole freaking thing. And then we find if it falls on its face or not. And that's what we're doing here so um yeah the um yeah just just um

moms and dads uh if you got a 25 year old living in your house uh meg meeker dr meg meeker is speaking at the smart conference with ken and i this weekend would tell you it is your job to interfere in their life now if they're on their own and they've established themselves, then, you know, good boundaries are in order and they're paying their own bills and you're not giving them any money. But if you're providing them shelter or money, then it is your obligation to continue to speak into their lives. And if they don't like that, then they can go provide their own shelter and their own money. By the way, one of the ways that parents can do that, Dave, with adult children, because

the dynamic has changed, is ask them some very straightforward, clear questions and leave it to them. Because if you make a statement, a 25-year-old kid, even a 14-year-old kid is going to push back a little bit. But if you ask a question, it puts the ball on them and then they have skin in the game when you say, hey, things like, do you have any jobs lined up? Do you have any targets of companies that you would like to apply for? Are they hiring? And let them sit with their own

answers. Let them sit with the fact that they don't have an answer. At that point, once they begin and you get them to the place where they realize, oh, I don't have a plan, this doesn't even make sense in my own head, then you got a chance to step in and realize, ooh, I don't have a plan. This doesn't even make sense in my own head. Then you've got a chance to step in and go, hey, how can I help? How can I step in and help you make some decisions on this? What are some things that you can do? But if you ask some piercing questions and leave them, be okay not talking, Mom and Dad. Let them wrestle with it.

You might find that that's a really great way to jump into that. But you've got to be okay at some point going, I think this is a bad idea, but let me tell you why I think it's a really great way to jump into that but you got to be okay at some point going i think this is a bad idea but let me tell you why i think it's a bad idea if there's some i think it can harm you if there's some red flags i think it could harm you to not call out red flags it's not an act of love it's an act of cowardice i agree and so you've got to call the red flags you got to say this is what it is. We had a team member many, many years around here misbehave and ended up having to leave due to the misbehavior. And as we revisited it with some of the leaders, they always said, well, you know, every time I had an interaction with this person, it always kind of felt weird. But nobody ever talked about it to each other. But if five of us had gotten together and said, you know, it feels weird.

And so we developed a new saying after that. If it feels weird, generally it's because it's weird. There's a reason it feels that way, you know. And so investigate, poke into it. If there's a red flag, you know, there should, you know, and common dadgum sense should give some of you red flags on some things. And it's your job then if you love someone to poke into it now again if they're a freestanding household they're 32 years old they got two kids and they're a married couple you don't have the right to just walk in there with your muddy boots that's a

boundary violation but even then you would treat them as a friend and what would you do with your friend what ken said what i would do my friend is i start asking a bunch of questions that made them uncomfortable that's what'd do with one of my personal friends if that happened. Versus walking in and saying, you're stupid. As a parent, I don't ever want to get to a situation where my kid looks at me and says, why didn't you tell me, Dad? Yeah. Why didn't you tell me?

I'd rather them be mad at me on the front end. I learned a new phrase today. I didn't know it was called catfish. He's still learning, folks. I'm still learning something new every day. 60 years is still growing. This is the Dave Ramsey Personality. Joining me as a co-host this hour, open phones at 888-825-5225.

Chelsea's with us in Fayetteville, Arkansas. Hi, Chelsea, how are you? Great, how are you doing? Better than I deserve. What's up? Well, I am thinking about starting a non-profit, and I'm wondering at what point, if any, is it okay to budget a salary for myself in the time that I would spend doing it? Well, of course. I mean, at some point,

if you're going to run that full-time, you would have to figure that out. But let's back up a step. So at what stage are you in thinking about starting this? You've already got a business plan, an idea, specific audience you're trying to serve. Where are you in this process? Mostly in the brainstorming. I'm looking at a subscription box for parents to disciple their children, like a family ministry. Why does it have to be nonprofit?

I don't know. Profit scares me. Why does profit scare you? because it's a ministry thing yeah but you know ministries have to make more money than they spend to stay open so that non-profits a tax distinction yeah non-profits still take in more than they spend or they close churches right any kind of ministry, has to bring in more income than it has expenses or it closes. So non-profit is not an actual difference

in the income versus the expenses. It's a tax issue. It's just how you categorize the profit is all. The profit is still there.ize the prophet is all the prophet is still there if the motive is ministry um i run a ministry right which i'm very appreciative of i appreciate that but i'm just saying so the point is non-profit does not make something holy right or right or righteous Right. unless it's the entire model of what you're going to do because you've got a board, you don't have control. If you run it the way the IRS wants you to run it. So that's the only reason I'm pushing back on it.

There's nothing wrong with it. So let's say that we go back to your original question, when is it okay for you to receive that? If you just switch shoes with your donor, where are you going to raise money? People are going to give you money to cause this to happen, right? Yes. Okay, so switch shoes with your donor, stand over in the donor's shoes, look back at your nonprofit, and go, okay, they brought in $100,000,

and she took a $95,000 salary. That feels icky, right? Right, yes. Okay. They brought in $100,000, and she took $30,000 for her part-time work. That doesn't feel icky to me. Does it to you? No.

So that's how you judge it, is just switch moccasins for a minute and walk a mile in the other guy's moccasins, and then you can kind of see what's going on. Because we, you know, the Ramsey Family Foundation, we donate lots of money to ministries that we select each year in the budget, and one of the things we're looking for is the icky factor. Right, right. Dave, if I'm not mistaken, correct me if I'm wrong, you know more about this than I do, I would assume,

but isn't there a suggested percentage of what an executive director of a nonprofit should make in proportion to the amount of money that the nonprofit brings in? There probably is, but it would probably change by the size. Yes. So, like, if you had something huge like the Red Cross, that would be a different percentage. It would be a much smaller percentage. Yeah, it's proportion. But if you had a small nonprofit, it would usually be a larger percentage would go to staff and so forth.

So I would just say there's two things to look at one is just don't you know from a standpoint of donors coming in don't violate the icky factor and if someone challenges you on that then they're just not one of your donors that's okay because you felt good about the amount that you had as a percentage of the overall uh for this coming budget year you you know, whatever that is. Then the second thing is, is Ken and I are both telling you, pan back a little bit and rethink why a nonprofit, because if you're doing this ministry to kids and, you know,

you had a percentage of, let's say you wanted to do this for kids that are underprivileged financially and kids that are privileged financially then you might take some percentage of the ones you sell and use it to donate like like bomba socks every time you buy a pair of socks from bombas they give a pair of socks to the homeless. You see what I'm doing? But they're for profit. They're for profit, and they've given away 2 million pairs of socks to homeless. Pretty strong ministry. And I've got Bombas socks on at this moment.

They used to be an advertiser for us here. That's how I got to meet the guys, and for you. You met them in New York, right? Absolutely, and I have got a pair on as well. So that's very well. You know who did that? That's Damon John's thing. Damon John invested in them from Shark Tank. One of our speakers.

Here's the thing, Chelsea. Dave's exactly right. It's about the mission for you. It's not about the classification. I would do a for-profit. I'd keep it clean and simple. You just have less work that you have to do just to even launch a nonprofit, Dave, as you know, before you've even really kind of proven the model. There's a lot of paperwork, a lot of work you got to do. I still think it's necessary in this case. Do business

for good. It's okay. It's okay to do it either way. There's nothing wrong with either way. I want the people out there that are thinking about things like this to do two things. One is understand nonprofit is not in the Bible. It's not. It's nowhere in the Bible. It's an IRS tax code. So if the IRS has to anoint you holy, you're screwed. So you decide whether you're going to be holy or not

based on the way you behave, the way you serve, whether you're greedy, whether you're generous, how you act and how you behave, not whether or not you make a profit. And so this thing from the communist and socialist college professors that have taught everyone that capitalism is evil has got to stop because it's inaccurate biblically. It's inaccurate in truth.

There are wonderful companies that are for-profit that do a great job. Again, not saying that there's anything wrong with doing a not-for-profit. I've got a good friend, Craig Groeschel, Bobby Grunwald over at Life.Church. Obviously, Life.Church is a not- nonprofit, and they have the largest Bible app, one of the largest apps of all of Apple. Everyone's got it on their phone, and it's a complete nonprofit. They give it away for free. They put money into it.

It loses money every year. It's called YouVersion Bible app. They've got 500 million, half a billion people around the world using this Bible app, completely free and completely donated. That thing, were it to be commercial, would be worth billions and billions of dollars as a company, and that asset is owned by that church. And it is an asset, even though they give it away for free and it doesn't make any money, because 500 million people looking at anything is an asset in this world today.

So that's a nonprofit that's done extremely well and run with excellence. They're friends of ours. We participate providing content, Ramsey content, to the YouVersion Bible app. They're wonderful people. They're professional in how they operate the thing. It's not half-butt run like some nonprofits are or some ministries are. So there's an example of when it's done right, Chelsea, like you want to do it. That's cool.

But if you're going to do the kits to the kids and it's going to be for profit, you're going to collect money from the customer, it does present you with another challenge. You have to provide value. That's exactly right. And it gives you a wake-up call on that, too. So it's a great discussion. I discussed a long time with Ramsey when we were starting this whether it was going to be not-for-profit.

And that's how I kind of had to germinate on all these philosophies and really think through, as a Christian, is it okay to make a profit? I had to go through those things. And as my friend Rabbi Lappin says, that when you serve people well, they give you certificates of appreciation with presidents' faces on them. They're green. And the way that we say thank you is with a tip. Thank you for serving me.

Thank you. And I don't think anything about it. I'm honored to give a great server a great tip. I don't think they're a greedy capitalist. No. I'm glad they got it. Ken Coleman, thanks for hanging out. Always fun, Dave.

James Childs is our producer. Kelly Daniels, our associate producer and phone screener. This is the Dave Ramsey advice in their life? Let them know about the Ramsey Call of the Day podcast. It's a quick hit of advice about life and money in under 10 minutes. Check out the Ramsey Call of the Day podcast wherever you listen to podcasts.