The Ramsey Show - App - Our Son Won’t Pay Us Back… (Hour 2)

Episode Date: July 18, 2022

Dave Ramsey & Ken Coleman discuss: How to avoid entitled kids, What to do when you're behind on bills, Forgiving a family member who won't pay back money you let them borrow Setting boundaries. �� Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. We help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, host of The Ken Coleman Show, where he talks about careers and jobs and you getting one you love, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Michael's going to start us off in Iowa. Hey, Michael, how are you?

Wonderful. How are you? Better than I deserve. Michael's going to start us off in Iowa. Hey, Michael, how are you? Wonderful. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? So my question is, as you're helping people in their financial journey and becoming debt-free, when you get to that point that you're financially free from any payments and you have children that are in the house. I understand that, you know, instilling the values that you, you know, don't use debt in your everyday life. And, you know, when you get to that point and you're still having, you know, younger kids at home, how do so you know i can basically use it's a great question what they have so so how do you keep becoming from becoming wealthy and it's screwing up your kids exactly like entitlement entitlement is arrogance

it's i'm do something that I didn't earn. You can fix that with kids regardless of the amount of money in your house. Ramsey kids growing up, entitlement was not something we allowed and self-centeredness was not something we allowed. and self-centeredness was not something we allowed. And they're very similar. So a couple of things we did, and I'm going to send you a copy of the number one bestseller Rachel and I did together called Smart Money, Smart Kids.

And so there's a couple of items. Let's start with a very philosophical, highbrow thing. Contentment is almost never around entitled people. Contentment comes from gratitude. I'm thankful. Lord, thank you for what I have, and it helps you to be content in what you have. And so our children, it was not an option. We trained them in their gratitude muscle. Thank you. Please.

Yes, sir. No, sir. Yes, ma'am. No, ma'am. We're from the South. You're going to have manners, and you're not going to allow someone to impose themselves across your boundaries or do something evil or wrong to you. That's not what we're saying.

But thank you. I'm sorry. Verbal generosity sets the table for the rest of this discussion. And then the rest of the discussion, and it's all age appropriate okay but it does melt a grandpa's heart when my two-year-old or three-year-old that's barely talking is thank you papa or maybe you can't even maybe it wasn't even enunciated that well right uh you know some baby talk version right but thank you papa it changes my whole life when that happens right when i watch that because that's gratitude and gratitude is what's missing in entitled people and so um once you do that then we taught our kids to do four basic things in the money thing that were character issues we built their muscle age appropriately

number one they learn to work you don't have an option if you're a ramsey you're going to work now we didn't send three-year-olds to the salt mines. Okay? It's age appropriate. But when you're 16 and you're exhausted because you've been in the backyard with your old man cutting trees or cleaning the furniture or whatever all day long, oh, cry me a river. Your butt's going to be out there in the sun sweating like your old man doing this stuff. Work. Physical labor is good.

Work that is mental, that you're mentally and emotionally exhausted when you're through with. There is dignity in work. There is no dignity in sloth. And so age appropriately, intensity increasing with age. You had to work if you're a Ramsey because that's where money comes from. It doesn't come from the government. I'm sorry, Joe Biden. It doesn't come from you.

I'm sorry, Donald Trump. It doesn't come from you. None of you have ever sent me any money except some of you sent some of my money back to me. But none of you sent me any money that wasn't already mine in the first place because I'd already sent you more than that. And so that's how that works. Now, once you learn to work, then we had three other muscles we need to build, and that's the muscle of generosity. And that's not only holding the door and saying thank you and please

and putting the dishes in the dishwasher for your mama because you say I love you that way, but the generosity is also you give money away age appropriately. Oddly enough, you don't have to teach young children that. They will try to give too much away. They are much more generous than we selfish adults are. Number two, they need to learn to give, save. They need to save money, build a savings muscle muscle learn to set a goal learn to work towards a goal and then number three spend wise spending and people that can do all four of those things

when they leave home at 18 don't ever move back into your basement they work they save they give they spend they're grateful they say please and thank you and they mean it and they know the access of the world does not run through the top of their entitled little head. And they don't end up becoming activists. They actually get a job and produce something for the culture. That's right. I would just add one thing, Michael, and I'm in the middle of it right now with three teens. And I think we as parents need to let our kids struggle more and what i mean by that is put them in a place where they must struggle and then allow

the struggle whether that be learning an instrument uh or a new job right because when you're taking on a job the first time at 15 you got you got one in football bracket yes sir that's true i think i think whether it's a sport or it is some type of extracurricular activity, I interviewed Malcolm Gladwell about this many, many years ago, one of the great thinkers on the planet. And he essentially said this, and what happens is when we as parents try to keep our kids from a place of struggle, then what happens is they begin to expect benefit or success instead of appreciate it. And it's much like Dave just said on the working part. But, you know, entitlement to me is when I expect something, not appreciate something. And struggle is huge. When you grow up in a household like that or a household like I grew up in or you grew up in, if we got triggered on something, there were no safe places.

No. No. In fact, we did actually. Triggered meant your butt was about to go to work well you know to your point i would never dream of getting triggered with my dad no because i'll tell you what would have been triggered next is i could hear the leather belt whistling through the belt loops as he pulled it off no i'm talking about if you get if you have a problem with something you don't expect someone else to fix it or to keep you safe when you survive a struggle.

And so that's the thing. But when you actually taste it and feel it, you go, wait a second, I appreciate this. Well, when you have overcome obstacles, it builds character, it builds muscle, it builds confidence, it builds dignity. When no one has overcome a struggle, there's no dignity in their life. Hang on, we'll send you a copy of Smart Money, Smart Kids to get you started on that. That's a great question. Thanks for letting us get up on a soapbox. I just saw a study that really made me sad. It showed that families owning life insurance in the U.S. was at its lowest point since the 1970s. After what we've been through the past few years,

I'm just lost on how people don't make this more of a priority. How are you going to make sure your family needs are met if something happens to you? This is why getting term life is an absolute necessity. Rates have never been cheaper, and the whole process to apply is pretty simple, with many companies not even requiring an exam anymore. This is why I send you to Zander Insurance, and I have for almost 25 years. They'll make sure you get the right protection at the lowest cost possible, and they're there for you and your family every day.

I challenge all of you to make sure your families are protected. It needs to be a top priority. Call Zander at 800-356-4282 or visit zander.com. That's 800-356-4282 or zander.com. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, is our co-host today. My co-host, the phone number here is 888-825-5225. Jason's in Boston. Hi, Jason. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave.

Hi, Ken. How are you folks? Better than we deserve, sir. How can we help? Thank you. So my wife, she just downloaded the app. She's actually listening at home, so you're, in a sense, talking to both of us at the same time, which is good. Cool. So we just decided that

we are going to start the baby steps, and with some unfortunate mishaps, we've fallen behind in some of our builds. We just decided that we are going to start the baby steps. And with some unfortunate mishaps, we've fallen behind in some of our bills. And we don't have a $1,000 emergency fund yet. So where do we start? What do we do? Wow. So what happened?

Well, so my wife is a breast cancer survivor, and our oldest son who helps contribute to the house just lost his job. And my hours were cut just a little bit, so we've got just a big financial mess, and mix that in with some poor spending habits and here we are yeah okay well um there's certainly we're going to put you guys into financial peace university to help you turn this around showing you how to handle money and how to do a budget and everything but it sounds to me like at the core you've got a an income crisis more than anything i'll let ken address that in just a second. As far as the baby steps go, your first goal before you start the baby steps is get current. That may mean selling stuff. It may mean having a garage sale. It may mean taking extra jobs, 16 of them.

It may mean selling so much stuff the kids think they're next, that kind of thing. Okay, so I'm talking radical because you've got to get current fast because this is such a tenuous, scary place to live. Your wife dealing with medical problems and now dealing with we can't even stay current on the light bill. It's terrorizing her, and I want you guys all to get off. But I don't need it, but I'm saying for your sake i've been where you are not on the cancer part but on the broke part and it just scares the crap out of you and to get away from

that level of terror and fear is your first order of business so getting current on a budget is first then start the baby steps and doing anything you can in the short term to get your income up, and then the long term to get your income up is next. Ken? Yeah, Jason, I'm curious. What do you do for a living now? I work for FedEx. Okay.

And so when you say you had your hours cut, how much? So they cut me down like a day or two over the last couple of weeks, but that's going to be getting back up as we continue towards the end of the summer here. What are you making over the course of the last couple of years? What do you make? I'm right around between $70,000 and $75,000. What are you doing, driving or loading? Driving. What's the long

term for you have you thought about it what would it look like up the ladder a couple rungs doing what kind of work um i actually enjoy what i'm doing um and you know i yeah what are you going to do on these off days to create extra income then that's more than you're making now? So even right now, I'm door dashing and driving for Lyft. Okay. Good. Good. Yeah, I think that's good. I would challenge you, though, because of your ability and what you've done with FedEx.

That's a nice little credible brand there. I think I'd be looking for better delivery jobs for at least six months, even if you're packing in some crazy hours, maybe driving for one of the large soda companies. They tend to have better hourly rates instead of you doing DoorDash. I think you can make more money in the driving game. You can get some part-time jobs because right now in the delivery game period, like so take all the trucking companies. You might even be able to drive a smaller size truck. They are desperate right now in the delivery game period, like so take all the trucking companies, you might even be able to drive a smaller size truck. They are desperate right now. We've got a big shortage of workers, Dave, in the supply chain world.

So if you like driving, I'd kick the tires is what I'm saying, Jason. No pun intended. Yeah, there it is. I stepped right into it. But I do think you could make more money driving than DoorDash and Uber or Lyft. Yeah, I mean, you've got a cdl probably and so yeah you could probably step into some local delivery stuff uh you know some short-term 18 wheeler stuff or whatever be north of 20 25 an hour versus lyft and that's my point he can make

more buck for his for his time there and anything uh i i just i want you working so many hours that your teenager is not in the mix for carrying the family weight uh that uh because you you are going to make so much more than he is yeah unless he's unless he's doing an app that makes two million dollars a year or something but short of that you're gonna you're gonna outperform out earn your teenager and you should uh so yeah and as much as your wife's health allows um uh same thing because here's the deal ten thousand dollars extra over the next two months changes your life not only do you get current you put a thousand dollars in the bank and you start working your way out of debt i mean you're ten thousand dollars away from a lot of peace a lot more

peace than you have today and so what i'm gonna do is i'm gonna go get a lot of peace a lot more peace than you have today and so what i'm gonna do is i'm gonna go get a lot of work and get ten thousand dollars how fast can i gather up ten thousand bucks i'm making that number up i don't know how far behind he is but i mean that's probably going to cover it well i think it's a good example dave because i think there's a lot of people listening watching i want to encourage you right now dave's not just throwing this motivational speech out ten thousand dollars is very doable in today's economy. We are looking at right now a 3.6% unemployment rate. What does that mean to you out there who need extra money to get that shovel bigger to get out of debt,

or in this case, just to get started? It actually means looking out there and seeing there is such high demand. You take this area, the Boston, Massachusetts area, big metropolitan area, you would be surprised how desperate employers are to get somebody they can count on and the money is way better than it has ever been it's a white hot opportunity for part-time income yeah for 20 to 20 to 30 an hour stuff yes sir absolutely never dreamed that that pre-covid you would have never made ten dollars doing yeah not even close yeah and that's um you know that that's that's real real well give you an idea take walmart national company okay just so y'all have some

real numbers here they're starting warehouse workers or people that are stocking shelves and off hours if you want to hustle and get after it you can be in the 20 to 25 dollars an hour just doing that kind of work yes you're exhausted and you're tired but again what would it take to get to 10 000 in two months i'm trying to get current that's right get my get my back away from the wall get the wolf away from the door i want to put a i want to put a bullet between the wolf's eyes i want him to go away and uh the wolf at the door is a it's a scary thing man i mean i've had my lights cut off my water cut off it's and with little babies in the house that's what happened to us when we went broke 30 years ago.

And it scares you at places you didn't even know you had. And it makes you, I mean, you stand in the shower and cry because you don't know what to do. You're so overwhelmed. And you don't have to boil the ocean here. You just got to go get some quick money any way that's moral and legal. Fast. Go get you some money fast. And then you can back down

and reassess your overall career goals that's correct and other stuff and start to maximize your time and think where do i want to be in 10 years do i still want to be doing this in 10 years is this company stable are they going to continue at this level on you can ask all those questions but right now go get some money it's a great point you can't make good long-term decisions when your head's on fire because of the financial stress. Get short-term stability, and then we start to plan financial wellness and growing, building wealth like our live events we're doing. So hang on, and Austin will pick up, and we will get you a copy of, or we'll get you signed up for a one-year membership to Financial Peace University, and that'll plug you into EveryDollar, the budgeting app,

and you and your wife commit to doing those lessons together. There's nine videos. Almost 10 million people have been through this course, and if you will do what we teach you to do in there while you go get some money, it'll change your whole life. And then you can call up and tell the lie and say dave you changed my life because i won't have changed your life you will have changed it you're gonna go get this but you're in a perfect place uh because jason because you're in that i'm sick and tired

of being sick and tired place i have bottom man i said never again. Never, never again. When you say that, when you yell that at the mirror, that's when you're ready to change your life. This is not an intellectual discussion. This is a transformational event. Intellect doesn't cause transformation. Emotion does. Viscerally, down inside, howling at the moon.

Never again will my family be in this place. When you say that, then never again your family will be in this place because you're going to go do what it takes to get her done, baby. And you're that kind of guy. That's why we're going to give it to you. And you call us back and tell us how it's going. This is The Ramsey Show. So I just gave away Financial Peace University, that guy who's getting ready to get up on his feet and get going again.

You don't have to be broke to go through FPU. You just want to learn how to handle money better. God's and grandma's ways of handling money. What does scripture say about money? Live on less than you make, as an example, okay? And what does, what did grandma say about money? Live on less than you make. Get out of debt. Stay out of debt. And we're going to show you not only the principles, but then how to actually go about doing those things in your life. We get it. If you're worried about money, it's all consuming.

You wonder if you've got enough to pay your bills. You can't afford to fill up at the gas station. Nobody can. It's always on your mind. But you shouldn't have to live with that kind of stress, and you don't have to. When you follow a proven plan, you'll discover peace with your money. In Financial Peace University, you'll learn the same plan that's helped 10 million people. Get on a budget, save, spend wisely, pay off debt, become wealthy, and outrageously generous.

Great time to take the course. We've updated a ton of the content, including George Campbell, Dr. John Deloney. Decide today that you're done. I've had it. No more like I was talking about before the break. You can do this. Go to RamseySolutions.com slash FPU. Check out Financial Peace University at RamseySolutions.com slash FPU.

Barbara's with us in Minneapolis. Hey, Barbara, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, Papa Dave and Ken. Great to talk with you guys. Thank you for all that you're doing. You too. My husband and I have been married for 10 years. We have a blended family with children ranging from the ages of 32 down to 21. There is a 26-year-old son, my stepson, my husband's son, married, lives in Wisconsin, has five children under the age of seven. So they're busy.

This son has asked us over two years ago, asked to borrow $3,000. My husband and I, we are baby steppers. We're on baby step six. And hopefully we'll be seeing in about a year and a half for our final debt free screen to move us to baby step seven. We've had a difficult time getting the son and daughter-in-law to pay us back, and it is causing significant strife in the family. My husband and I are to the point where we just know we're not going to see the money again, the remaining balance of $1,500, and we've accepted that and we've moved on.

However, the son continues to just give daggers and say that, you know, we were, he was entitled to the money, he deserved the money, and our other adult children see this and hear these comments. And where I would really love your experience, Ken, is the son does not work, he is not supporting his family, and then throws the emotional manipulation to my husband and I that we will be the ones responsible when him and our grandchildren get kicked out on the street. So we're trying to determine how we just allow these arrows to bounce off of us while holding the empty bag of a financial loan, which caused a strife between my husband and I because I did not want to borrow the money.

So we've had to solidify our marriage. You borrowed the money to give him? Say again? You borrowed the money to give him? We borrowed the money. Well, that's a double dip. Years ago. Oh, my gosh.

Not only did he not pay you back, but you went into debt to do this. Oh, ouch, ouch. No, we did not go into debt. No, we're in baby steps. Oh, you loaned him the money. You didn't borrow it. We loaned him the money. I got it.

That's what I thought you said. We're the bad guys for asking for a fee repaid back as promised. Yeah. But we can't get him to work. We can't get him to maintain. You can't get him to do anything. He's an adult. No.

Well, exactly. You don't get to tell him what to do. No. Your, exactly. You don't get to tell him what to do. No. Your bank, his bank doesn't get to tell him what to do. Right. So any guidance on how we just don't engage in this toxicity while you're trying as a parent of an adult? No, absolutely. I think his dad needs to call him up and say the loan is forgiven.

Forget it. Just forget it. We're not going to loan you any money anymore ever again. But this loan is forgiven. You don't owe me anymore. And I love you. I don't agree with a lot of things you're doing, but you're a grown man and you're allowed to do those things. And we're still going to be friends.

I'm still going to be grandpa. And you don't owe us any more money. Forget it. And if you want some help, we can give you some coaching and we'll be your biggest cheerleaders. But we won't give you either one, coaching or cheering, without your permission. Cut him loose.

Set him free. This is bothering you way more than it's bothering him. Oh, yeah. You've had $28 million worth of grief. He's had 20 cents worth of grief. He hadn't got enough character for this to bother him. Well, exactly. Yeah yeah so this is bothered barbara barbara let it go it's just fifteen hundred dollars no absolutely and what what breaks my heart more than my pocketbook because we don't need that you can't make you

can't you're broken hearted and doesn't even matter to him well right but it hurts my heart how he speaks to my husband his father and that's your husband needs to say you can't speak to me that way anymore yeah okay you can only speak to me in tones that are reasonable i don't allow anyone family or otherwise to speak to me in unpleasant ways in an ongoing process. Now, if somebody can have a moment, that's one thing, okay? I don't cut everybody out of my life

that has a moment. That's not what I'm talking about. But as an ongoing abusive thing, that's, you know, you're welcome to call here and you're welcome to be in our home, but you're going to maintain these levels of volume and this level of reasonable respect, and I'm going to give you the same thing. But don't call here, and we're not responsible for your children.

They're your children. Correct. We love you, and we're cheering for you. If you ever want any advice on how to get where we are financially, we can show you. But we're not going to tell you what to do, and you're not going to make us give you our money. You're a confused young man. He just needs some boundaries. Your husband is a nice, gentle man, isn't he?

Yes. He's a six-foot-four giant. Yep, with a big old heart and a very, very soft, gentle personality. So I want your husband to roar just a little bit. And you do, too. Yeah. And you do, too. Now, I don't want him to be mean.

I don't want him to be mean, but it takes strength to set boundaries. And that's what's lacking here is boundaries. And let me tell you, anytime someone like your stepson who doesn't respect boundaries, anytime you put up a fence and he's used to playing in your yard, he's going to have a fit. So don't expect this to go well. It's not going to go well because this kid's a twerp. Yep. Okay?

And so all you can do is just say, you have to sit over there in your yard and have your little fit. You can't sit in my yard and have a fit. And just don't worry about the money. Money's off the table. Money's off the table. And the fact that you forgive it is not going to make this young man suddenly have character. Yeah, and I think that's also one of the hardest things for my husband, too. Exactly.

That ship has amazing work ethic. It's sailed. That ship's sailed. This kid's way too old for you to fix him. You just got to love him where he is, and if he wants some help i can show him how you can show him how but until he's ready for some help it's everybody else's fault and bar i would just add you need to encourage your husband that this is not a direct reflection on him it's very heartbreaking when you see a kid and a grown man make these kind of decisions and say the things

that he's saying but i I'll tell you this. I want parents to hear this. It's really hard when you see adult kids do things that you didn't model for them. You didn't teach them how to do it. But when you see an adult kid like this who's not working to support his family. There's other stuff going on. There's way more going on. He's not lazy. Even though he presents as lazy, he's lost.

And you said it earlier. You said this is a confused young man, and I think you're right. Confusion can make a person so lost that they lose all gumption to get out there and do something. And that's the best your husband can be aware of is to try to love his son that way. But I agree, Dave. You've got to cut it off for a while until he gets a wake-up call. Do not loan money. Do not loan money to your kids. If you want to give them money, give them money. You never loan them money because you change the relationship. And that's part of what's

this relationship. Hang on. We're going to send you a copy of Dr. John Deloney's book, Own Your Past, Change Your Future. It'll help you guys navigate this harbor. Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Open phones, 888-825-5225. We needed Dr. John Deloney for that last call. Yeah. But we will tell you this one of the things we've learned from john and from dr henry cloud our friend and others in the world of uh psychology and um relationships psychiatry and and dealing with all those kinds of things i and i'll tell you this from experience as well one of the most difficult if not i think the most

difficult stage of parenting is when you can't anymore because they're grown yeah they get to make their own decisions and uh and it's also the most difficult thing of any adult to adult relationship because you don't get to tell the someone you love what to do while you watch them do something stupid or harmful or disastrous or whatever and so if you got a friend that's drinking too much you've got a friend that's doing something outside their marriage they shouldn't be doing you got a friend or a family member but you can't tell other people what you can tell other people what they but they don't what to do but they don't have to do it yeah and uh even though you know that what they're doing is self-destructive and even though it's not for selfish intent that you're asking them to do that we're not trying to that kid's

dad at 32 years old with five kids under seven is not trying to do something harmful to him but trying to get him get a job um take care of his family uh but but something broke something slipped in that in that young man somewhere along the line and um you a couple things that always come up in the world of finance and even in the world of careers as well that are over are under the heading of what dr deloney talks about and teaches all the time what john talks about is um i can't be responsible for nor do i have the um literal ability to make an adult do something else i can make them wish they did sometimes um but i can't make them do it they have to decide to do it and so henry cloud always says don't don't use words like you need to because they obviously don't need to you should they obviously don't

think that instead you could just say this is these you know here's some ideas your persuasion is your only option uh ordering people around and and being completely torn up inside which i have been you have been she was watching someone yes that you love self-destruct yeah um is a natural thing to be but but you're doubly torn up inside when you feel like you have the obligation to fix it yeah well it's the illusion of control. Exactly. And we so desire to help out a friend or a family member. And you have to be able to just live with the pain.

You do. You just have to be able to hurt. You hurt yourself. You hurt for them. You watch them hurt. Yeah. And it's terrible. But the reality is that I think you're right, Dave.

Persuasion. But you've got to be careful with persuasion. You know, it can only go so far. And then they begin to drown you out. You may take one or two good cracks at it. Well, persuasion is fine in prayer. I mean, it's God to send people into their path that they will listen to. But all of that comes down to them making a decision.

Why would they make a decision to do something differently? Well, it can be facts. It could be emotion. It can be influence. It could be whatever. But it is never coercion. That's correct. Like you said a million times, they'll make the decision at some point or they won't to deal with the sick and tired.

They're sick and tired. One of the things you learn when you're running a business and you're leading a team, you can't make people do stuff there. You cannot. Now, there are companies that are so stupid, they try to make people do stuff, but those are toxic environments. All you can do is create an environment where there are natural consequences if you don't do it, like you don't get to work here anymore. But this is what we expect, and when you don't do this, you don't get to work here anymore. And this is what we expect and when you don't do this you don't get to work here anymore and this is what we expect and if you do do this then you know you're not only going to

get to work here you're going to make more money you've made in your life you're going to have a great life you're going to be part of a winning team you know you get to participate in an incredible crusade all those things but you can always choose to engage in behaviors that cause you to opt out. Let me ask you a generational question. Do you feel like over the last 30, 50 years that the focus on safety just in general as a culture, and I'm not being silly when I say this, but bike helmets and elbow pads, car seats, things that we know are safe but we didn't grow up with, I just wonder if parents have gotten to the point where we're afraid to let our kids experience pain,

maybe the one thing that can turn their life around. Is that a shift, or has nothing shifted as you look back? Oh, it's probably accelerated some. I mean, the helicopter parents are at a whole new level. Now we have Blackhawk helicopter parents. Isn't that the truth? These were like traffic copter parents. Now it's hovercraft.

We have all different types. But it's a a different thing they're attack copters now but the uh uh they're just loudspeakers when i was a kid but anyway that you know yeah it's probably amped up but it does it always comes from all enabling comes from a good heart. What parent, functional parent, I'm not talking about dysfunctional, but functional parents always want their kid's life to be better than theirs was. And there's a point of diminishing returns on that. And or, also, there's not only a point of diminishing returns. Worse than that, we can, if we're not careful when we're enabling, what that leads to, we can misdefine, put the wrong definition of what a better life is.

A life devoid of struggle is not a better life. Oh. Let me try that again. A life devoid of struggle is not a better life. And so we tried to let our kids experience pain while they were at home under the covering of our wings so that we could control the level of pain. Because when you get outside the home, I can't help you anymore. The level of pain can become unbearable. That's true.

It can put you in an institution. I mean, it could be completely overwhelming because you can do stupid and the, you know, it's decades of health problems, decades of brain damage that follows that, decades of broken and torn relationships, the rest of your life that are marred by that by your i can't keep you from making those decisions once you're outside my so we try to let our kids you know fall over and go okay you got to deal with that i'm not going to go over and fix that conflict here's how you deal with conflict go work on that and they would do it wrong sometimes oh sure and but all within so a life devoid of struggle is not necessarily a better life and

when you as a parent and that's a little bit of the bike helmet thing you know the the thing is we want there to be a hundred percent zero fatalities a hundred percent zero whatever but that means that no kids ever jumped over anything on their bicycle yeah and that would be a shame yeah it would be a shame yeah it's also a shame when one of them gets hurt. I was hurt. I got stitches all over my body doing that crap. And I don't want children to be harmed. I'm not that stupid.

Right. But this idea that you can completely remove all risk from life and still have a high-quality life. Yeah. No, I just jumped out of an airplane the other day yes you did i watched you i watched you float down you watched me from the ground you wasn't ready folks i i need to hey i need to baby step my way you should have seen the plane he went up in well and you can't you you can't say stuff like he left it all on the ground no you can't you left it all on the field you can't say lines like that you can't you know one thing we we've gotten to a point where we are not even trying to just eliminate pain for

our kids dave now we're trying to eliminate unpleasantness yeah and so now it's all about i want my kid to feel you need a safe space when you're triggered and all this ridiculous but if it's if it's all about making our kids feel good, we'll miss the part of going off to college, which is a deal with tenured professors. And they're not reasonable human beings. No. And so, by and large. Yeah. And so, you know, it's but now it's all about Junior getting out without a single ever having his little feelings hurt or his ideas.

If I actually disagree with you, it completely shuts some of you down yeah you can't deal with it because you've had zero conflict ever in your life to process right you got to do you know so your critical thinking skills are mush i wish we had some data on how quickly uh my generation learned to ride a bike versus the kids of today because here's the deal if you wrecked when when i was a, you stuck to the sheets for a week. Now they've got more pads on them than you can press. Well, it makes the point, doesn't it, Dave? I don't remember sticking to the sheets.

No skin on your knees? Oh, yeah. If you wrecked a bike in my day, you paid for it. Yeah, I know, but golly, a bike in my day. Oh, my God. You sound like that guy. This is the guy who used to say, get up and spray some Bactine on it. Now it's too much for Papa Dave. There's a throwback.

Bactine. You're the one that used to say that. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, folks. Ken Coleman here. Did you know The Ramsey Show is one of the most popular podcasts in the world? Get your daily dose of advice on life and money. Check out all of our shows from the Ramsey Network wherever you listen to podcasts.