The Ramsey Show - App - Pause Investing To Save for a House? (Hour 2)

Episode Date: July 15, 2022

George Kamel & Ken Coleman discuss: The potential for doing your job from another state, Moving to a more affordable area, George's money hacks, Stopping investing to save for a home, Talking a college-bound kid out of student loans. Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6

🎵 For the Ramsey Network, this is The Ramsey Show, where we help you get control of your money, get ahead in your career, and get on the path to living well. I'm George Campbell, joined today by best-selling author and host of The Ken Coleman Show, you guessed it, Ken Coleman. And we are here to take your call, America, on your money, your life, whatever you're grappling with, career changes. We would love to help.

So give us a call, 888-825-5225. Molly is kicking us off in Phoenix, Arizona. Molly, welcome to the show. There's Molly. Hi, George. How are you doing today? So great. We're happy to take your call. What's going on? So essentially the question is, what is more important, what you do or where you live?

Ooh. Oh. What has brought you to this crossroads, Molly? So I currently live in Phoenix, Arizona. I went to school here, and I work with air permitting consulting. So a good portion of that is state-specific. So my experience in my job is state-specific, and I've only been with my firm for a year and a half,

so you're supposed to do that whole three to five year thing. However, my sister is almost pregnant in North Carolina. And if I wasn't worried about how would this look on my resume, does my job experience apply, I'd be in North Carolina right now. Okay, I understand that right now, but what happens when the baby comes? Is this like, I want to be near my sister as long as she has a child? Play that out a little bit more, because that's a strong statement. So it is just the two of us. So I've got the one sister, and then her husband is also a single child.

So it's a small family, and the parents aren't really in the picture. So I want to be there to help out and to be involved in my niece or nephew's lives. Okay. And I understand that. So you're saying your niece and nephew, their parents aren't involved? They're not there? No. Are you talking about the grandparents? Potential grandparents, yes. Gotcha. Okay. She hasn't figured out if it's a girl or boy yet. Okay, I got you. So the struggle is, I want to move to North Carolina, but my career field doesn't exist there. The career field exists,

but I'd be essentially starting from scratch as... No, you're not. You're not a career in this field. No. You just said you've been there a year and a half? Yes. There's no golden rule that says you have to do it for three years to get a job? Lots of the regulations are state-specific.

So I'm worried that if I just up and go to North Carolina that I will be starting my learning curve over. Okay, so do you know this for a fact? Have you looked up the North Carolina regulations in the field that you're in? Yes. And? So the federal regulations are, of course, the same, but Arizona and North Carolina have different stances on environmental regulations due solely to the environment. Right, but what I'm saying is, are you in any way disqualified from being able to do what you do now in Arizona, do that in North Carolina?

Are you not experienced enough? Is there some sort of state regulation that makes it very hard for you to step from Phoenix to North Carolina and do the work you want to do? No. Okay, then. So you've concocted a monster under the bed, and there's no monster there. There's no monster. And there's no harm in exploring and interviewing and going hey let me see if there's a job out there in north carolina

that'll take me yeah like make it my full-time hobby to when you're not working sleeping eating hanging with friends and family you are looking and trying to interview and get an offer in north carolina because you don't have to marry these companies if they make you an offer, but you've got to dig. You've got to look for opportunities. And here's the other thing. I would not limit yourself to that industry unless you're saying that is your dream industry. Okay, so look in North Carolina for a job, and then once I have one, move then.

Yeah, absolutely. Well, sure, your fear is you're not going to be able to get a job there, right? Yes. Yeah, but that's nonsense. This is the hottest job market that we've ever seen in the United States, Molly. Can I give you some data real quick to help kind of assure you? We are at 3.6% unemployment right now. I'm going to give you a real picture of this as we look across the nation.

We have about 11.3 million, 11.4 million jobs available in the United States right now, and about 8.6, 8.7 million people unemployed. Those numbers change month to month, but it's about that. And so that's why we're seeing what they call this crazy job market where companies can't find people. So all of a sudden, Molly, you are a very talented woman. True or false? True. Yeah. Well, that didn't sound very confident. That wasn't a question mark. We need an exclamation point. We're going to have to work on that for the old interview. All right. I'm going to ask you that again. I want you to say that with some juice. Pretend Ken is the interviewer. Yeah. Molly, you're a very talented woman, correct? Correct. There we go. That's going to

play well. All right. Now, listen, here's the point. You have talent. That's going to play well. All right, now listen. Here's the point. You have talent. You have experience to offer. I also saw, George, a headline yesterday because I am, as you know, an avid newsreader. And, Molly, the state of North Carolina is the healthiest state economy in the United States, the most business-friendly state. That's what was reported. They've got a lot going on in North Carolina. It is a super, super attractive job market. You have the benefit of having friends and family in that area of North Carolina where

you would like to be, so you are not starting from scratch with connections. True or false? True. There we go. So we look, and we get opportunities offered to us, and we decide is it the right opportunity. But there's no risk here. The riskiest thing you could do is if you were to move there,

sight unseen with no job, and live with your sister because you guys get along so great, and that would be a safe landing route. But even that's not risky. So start looking. And, Molly, let's play out the worst case scenario. Worst case, let's say the regulation is you've got to be there three years. So that's a year and a half away, which means your niece or nephew at that point is a year old or so,

which means you step into their life full time locally from one year old until the rest of their life. That's the worst case scenario. Correct? Yeah, that doesn't sound so bad. Yeah. Molly. Either way, you're fine, but I know your heart is to be with family, and so I'm going to be about the business of doing everything I can do to get to North Carolina as soon as possible, but we're going to bring the boat close to the dock and have the job before we step. So, Molly, back to your original question when you opened up the conversation. What's more

important, what I'm doing or where I live? And you've created a false choice. You can live where you want to live and do what you want to do. Ding, ding, ding. Tell her what she's won, George. You've won a prize of living your best life. Oh, very nice. There it is. Ken, but there's a lot. You know, it's a false choice. Yeah. The heart behind it is important for people to realize. A lot of people out there, there's a lot of doubt right now. People don't believe that they can have it all, that they can do what they want to do, get paid well to do it, live where they want to live. And the numbers, the data shows us otherwise.

It's a hot job market, a lot of talented folks out there. Now's the time if you want to make a jump, but do it wisely. George, you model this. People don't know. You wanted to be in Nashville. You wanted to work for Ramsey Solutions. You figured out a way to do it. You did the hard work.

You worked your way up. And today, here you sit in a dream denim jacket that you always wanted to wear. I never dreamed I'd be wearing denim next to Ken Coleman. But here we are. That's true. Nobody's dreamed of that, actually. I love it. More of the show coming up.

This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, guys, George Camel here, and I'm so excited to tell you about the newest product from Ramsey. It's called Gazelle, and it's a digital banking experience that will help you spend and save the Ramsey way with banking services provided by Pathword NA. You'll get a single spending account with no monthly fees, and it's FDIC insured through Pathword NA. We're offering early access to our beta customers, so you can help us make it the best experience it can be.

Just go to RamseySolutions.com slash gazelle to sign up joined by Ken Coleman today. You know, there's so much crazy stuff going on, and people are looking for direction on how to handle their finances day to day. But they're also struggling to see how it's even possible to build wealth. So at our Building Wealth Live event, we walk you through all the crazy and teach you the steps to build real lasting wealth. And the principles we teach here are the only principles that work in prosperous times and in hard times. And no matter where you are with your money today, you can get on a path to building wealth. We're going to show you how. The Building Wealth Live tour has already made a couple of great stops in Vegas and Orlando, wrapping up our spring portion, but we're just getting started.

We've got a bunch of cities this fall. Phoenix on September 13th. We are almost sold out in Phoenix, so go ahead and grab your tickets there. Sacramento on November 1st, almost sold out there as well. Headed to Minneapolis on November 10th, and then we are rounding it out in beautiful San Antonio on November 15th. So please join us if you're near those areas. If you can get there, it's a great time. Dave Ramsey, Rachel Cruz, Ken Coleman, Dr. John Deloney, and myself, we'll all be there.

It'll be a party. Can't wait to see you guys. Event passes start at just $25, or you can get a four-pack of passes starting at $60. So bring your friends. We're going to have a good time. RamseySolutions.com slash events is the place to reserve your seats now. And Ken, fun fact, not only do we do the event, but there's like a pre-show with you and Deloney

where you guys have a special segment. You take questions. It's powerful. We talk about the natural tension between your professional obligations and your relationship responsibilities, right? There's a tension between, you know what, I'm going for it, or maybe we have two working people in the house in the marriage. What's that like? So we talk about relationships and work and the tension on both sides of those things. And so we just talk really for only about five, ten minutes, John and I, and and then we take questions the entire time it's just like a free-for-all and uh it's

been a lot of fun that's where some of the magic happens yeah those q a portions yeah boy i'll tell you what i'm really excited about these cities um great cities a phoenix is crazy uh the the response there it's so hot and uh no pun intended and uh. But I'm a little nervous about Minneapolis in November. Oh, yeah. Could be dangerous. Well, I want you to pack your turtleneck. I think that's probably a good idea. Matching turtlenecks.

No, I don't want to match you. You signed up for this. Well, it's a lot of fun. I'm so glad we're back on the road, Ken. I missed it. Yeah, the crowds have been amazing. So there's something special that happens in community. We know this as humans, whether it be at a church or like an FPU class.

But when you get in a big arena or a big venue like some of these places we're in, it's electric. And so we'd love to see you there. Yeah. RamseySolutions.com slash events. Open phones this hour, 888-825-5225. Anthony joins us up next in Seattle. Anthony, welcome to the show. Hello, hey, guys.

Thanks for having me. Absolutely. How can we help today? Yeah, so I'm 20 years old, and I go to college. I've been very lucky with my parents, and I've worked throughout my school, pretty much in high school and through college, and I want to make sure I'm on the right path because I want to put down a down payment for a house and I just wanted to see if I could afford it or if I should maybe move to a lower cost of living area or if I'm just rushing.

You're still in college right now? Yeah, I graduate next spring. Wow. Okay. Congratulations. What professional path are you planning to head on? Yeah, operations management, so lean pretty much. Okay.

What was that? Operations management? Yeah, like lean, continuous improvement. Oh, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, good. So you can do that pretty much anywhere in the country.

Do you have your site set on a certain place? Or do you want to stay in Seattle? Yeah. Yeah, so I would like to stay around this area. I have family and a girlfriend in this area, so I would prefer it. Okay. But you're saying, should I move to somewhere more affordable, even though I don't really want to leave? Just because you've got your sights set on being a homeowner. Yeah, because I really want to be able to afford it. I don't want to get into a bad

situation. What are you thinking about buying? What does afford mean? What kind of house, what size, what price range are we looking at? Yeah, so either a condo or a house, probably like two bedrooms. Around here, I found that a good condo, decent condo is like $275,000. And then a house is like for two to three bedrooms is around $500,000. Yeah, well, let me tell you something. As a single guy graduating, I know you've got a girlfriend, but that's just too much house.

That's just too much. George, am I too dad right now? No. I think he's an excited 20-year-old. You're very driven. You're going to get there, but I think we pump the brakes on this right now. Let's graduate. Let's see what kind of job we get, what kind of money we make,

how much money we can save up. And you can begin, you can pre-decide that I'm going to save up every penny. I'm going to avoid debt because that's going to set you up to be a home owner much faster. So I think right now it's cool that you're looking. Have that goal in the back of your mind. I would aim for that lowest common denominator. Maybe we go for the condo at 275 and we know a few years from now it's going to appreciate a little bit. So let's start saving up that down payment as we get out of college. But you're not working right now, are you? Are you working while in school? I am, yeah.

So I've been saving up pretty much a lot. So my parents have actually given me, started up a Roth IRA. It's $14,500 in it currently. I also have a little over $13,000 in investments, S&P 500. Just in a taxable account outside of retirement? Yes, outside of retirement, yes. And then my father and my mom have said that they are going to give me $20,000 when I graduate, which is very, very nice. That's nice, just as a gift. Okay, so that puts you at like $33,000 of cash

once you cash out of that investment fund. And then how much can we save up on top of that in the next few years? Maybe another $40,000? Yeah, and my estimated income ranges from like, like starting income would be somewhere from like $ and 75 from what I've heard from other people in this major. Cool. bit of pressure on yourself because you're so frugal and it seems like you're very, very knowledgeable about money and you're very serious about being a very stewardess person. I'm just curious, where's this coming from, this pressure to buy a house so quickly?

I think it's more of like what I want. I've always wanted to kind of own a house and kind of be independent. You can be independent without being a homeowner. I mean, couldn't you rent somewhere on your own? Yeah. Yeah, I definitely can. I just don't want to throw that money away and rent, you know. I knew we were getting there.

George, why is renting not throwing money away? Well, you're buying yourself patience. Rent has a terrible stigma these days. I don't know what it is about it. Because I could be putting that money towards an asset. I could own an asset. But the truth, I looked in the Constitution the other day, Ken. Nowhere in there does it say you get to be a homeowner as an American right.

You know, George, that's a very astute point there. I know you're a constitutionalist. It's not there. You're right. The right to own a home is nowhere in the Bill of Rights. And we're big fans of being a homeowner. Big fans. It's a huge part of building wealth.

Done it several times. But there's no reason to be so gung-ho about that at 20. I think you're going to get there because of how driven you are naturally. But I would focus right now on what's the right thing for me right now. And the truth is, if you get married one day, your future wife is going to go, this ain't it. And she's going to want to move somewhere else. So I'm okay with you loading up a giant pile of cash. And when you're financially ready, you can do a 15-year fixed, quarter of your take-home pay. Then I would go, all right, Anthony's ready to do it. But right

now, focus on your career, focus on what kind of income you're going to have, and then make those kinds of decisions. Yeah, Anthony, George is absolutely right. I want to give you one little mind, a little thought, maybe a mental shift for you, okay? Over the next couple of years, if you do what George said, I don't want you to be thinking about how much money you're throwing away in the form of rent. I want you to think about how renting is allowing you to save and giving you better options because you're piling up a bigger amount of money. I want you to flip the script there.

And when the toilet breaks, it's not your problem. Oh, it's wonderful. There's a lot of benefits to renting. I know rent's sky high and Seattle's crazy. But, man, you could rent for a year or two as you save up and get established in your career and you start making more money and more margin. But if you keep living the way you're living, you're going to be a homeowner way sooner than most Americans. So we're proud of you, man. Stay the course.

You got this. This is The Ramsey Show. You probably knew that, but a reminder for you there. I'm George Campbell, joined by Ken Coleman today, and we are taking your calls. 888-825-5225. So, Ken, I've been posting these Instagram reels. I know you post them as well. Yeah, and you're doing a great job, by the way.

Thank you. It's what I come to expect from you. Pithy and practical. Well, I love, I speak in tweets. You know, it's very, it's like Proverbs. Mad respect. Do you speak in tweets? I just, I love, I speak in tweets. It's like Proverbs. Mad respect. Do you speak in tweets? I just, I'm quick with it. I don't have a lot to say and I get to it.

Yeah, yeah. And so I posted one earlier. It was a Southwest hack. You know me, I love money hacks. I'm a frugal guy. You love to save a dime. And I've been, here's the shocking part. Let me hear it.

People are commenting saying, I just saved $128 thanks to your hack. I just got $62 back for a flight. I just saved $41. I just got 20,000 Southwest points back. All right already. I'd like to hear the hack. I'd like to save a buck or two. And that's what we call a T-scan.

You're going to have to go look for it. Ah, I got to go to your gram? You got to go to my gram. At George Camel with a K. K-A-M-E-L. What do I got to do? And my wife, here's the funny part. She doesn't even know about it?

I did the hack myself, and I got $50-something back, and I never told her. So she's commenting on my Instagram video going, wow, thanks for letting us know. But I saved her money. I didn't spend it. There's the big difference. And I need to know, did you come up with this hack, or did you borrow it and then share it with me? I think I may have stumbled upon it. Is this it right here?

Yes. So you can basically – So it's your latest post, at George Camel. That's Camel with a K. And, oh, look at you, George. You're starting to really get the old followers. Give George a follow. I appreciate that.

Thanks for the pitch, Ken. But really, I just love helping people because here's the thing, Ken. Yes, you might save a buck. In this case, it's a lot more than a buck. But what I love is it gives people the encouragement that they can take control of their money. And they start getting creative and going, where else can I start saving some money? And all that adds up. While you're yammering on, I'm reading your post.

And I don't want to give it away. But are you telling me I've got a flight with my daughter and I, Josie, are going to my niece's wedding in August. Yep. I need to do what you just suggested? Yes. And you think, is it a guarantee that it's going to work? No guarantees in this life. How do you know?

What I do is I check my flights that I've already booked, because a lot of people right now, they're booking travel plans, and it's real expensive right now. And so they're worried, I'm going to book a flight, and it's not the right time. I paid too much for my flight. What if it goes down? So the hack is to go back and check to see if you can make money, save money, get money back for a flight you've already booked on Southwest. By rebooking it. By rebooking the same flight.

Exactly. And so you can see if you're going to save before you click. Exactly. And so I walk through exactly how to do that. There you go. Well, guess what we're doing over appetizers tonight. That's right. By the way, big news, James.

The Coleman's and the Camel's going to dinner tonight after the show. Ken, people often wonder, are they actually friends? Do we hang out off-site? People don't wonder. Nobody cares. But I told you anyway. And tonight over appetizers, I'll tell you what. I'm going to pick up the appetizer if you'll help me see if I could save money on my flight.

That feels like a nice trade. Don't threaten me with a good time. Oh, my goodness. Listen, well, here's the thing, Ken. So go check it out. Are you sending people to Instagram? Yeah, yeah. At George Campbell with a K.

It's actually right there in his post. I'm very excited about this. It's my first reel right there. So I thought, man, I'm hanging out with Ken for three hours. It's not enough. Three? Whoa, I didn't commit to three. That's the show.

The Ramsey show. Oh, I thought we were talking about dinner tonight. This is awkward. And it's just not enough. And so I thought, let's get dinner tonight after the show. And we're doing it. Yeah. Looking forward to it.

Yeah. Well, Whitney's lovely and Stacey, they love each other. They get along. And so George and I largely ignore each other. We're just there to foot the bill. 100%. Yeah. I love it.

Well, we're taking your calls about life, money, career, you name it. And Mark joins us up next in Buffalo. Mark, welcome to the show. Hey, guys. Thanks for taking my call. Absolutely. How can Ken and I help? So I'm 22 years old. I still live with my parents. I work a full-time job. I make about

$52,000 a year right now. I'm about to start an online college program just to further my education and my career, which I'm going to be paying for out of pocket. Um, I just bought a new old car, um, something more reliable than my last. So my next like big purchase that's going to be coming up is obviously going to be a house. Um, and so I, you know, I've been looking and I've talked to like a realtor. And my question is, I have a decent amount in savings, but I also started an individual investment account back in February of 2021. So obviously it was boogieing for a while and it was in the grain, but now not so much anymore. And I'm wondering if potentially I made a mistake. I haven't lost a ton of money. It's mostly just Vanguard ETFs.

Well, you haven't lost anything until you sell those shares. Well, that's what I'm saying. And so do I think it's better to, or do you guys think it's better to get out of that and add that money to my savings to keep saving for a down payment? Or so my accounts, I have in just normal savings accounts, I have about $44,000. And then in my 401k through work, I have about a little over $3,000. And then in my investment account, I put about $20,300 in, and it's currently at about like $18,000. So it's in the negative. And my mentality is, yeah,

I don't lose it until I sell it. But is it like, would it be more wise to take it out and add it to my savings since my next big purchase is going to be a house eventually, even though I don't need to buy it immediately. I have a good situation with my family, but I am 22 and, you know, I'm blessed to be able to live with them for now. And we have a good situation with my family, but I am 22 and, you know, I'm blessed to be able to live with them for now. And we have a good relationship, so they're not kicking me out or anything. But if I can stay here until I can save up to buy one rather than, you know, just try and get my way out and start renting first. How much debt do you have? I just wait until I can buy. No debt. No debt at all. And you've got $44,000 in liquid savings. You've got $18,000 sitting in the non-retirement investment account.

Yep. So I would start to look at what an exit strategy looks like for mom and dad. And by then, that investment account would probably have come back. I feel good about the U.S. economy in the next year or two, climbing out of this hole we've had. And I think at that point, you're going to have a big pile of cash, won't you? Probably close to, I mean, if you're living at home with no expenses, you can put away most of your paycheck.

Yeah, I've been diligently saving for a couple years now, but since I got the job I'm working at now back in November, I mean, I track everything. I'm saving on average about like $1,300 to $1,600 a month. That's great. So you're talking, you know, $15,000, $20,000 a year you could save? Yeah. This year alone, the first six months, I have already saved $13,000.

I love it. So let's say you can save $20,000 in the next year because you're hustling. Maybe you take on a side job. You get $44,000 in savings. That's $13,000. I love it. So let's say you can save $20,000 in the next year because you're hustling. Maybe you take on a side job. You got $44,000 in savings. That's $64,000. And let's say that investment account comes back to what you put in. That's another $20,000. So that's $84,000 you have as a down payment.

Now we've got to set aside an emergency fund, which sounds like we've got to set aside May 15 of that, right? Yeah. So let's call it $70,000 a year from now. And then I would go and look, all right, what can that get me in my area that I want to live in, Buffalo, New York, that I can put $70,000 down and on a 15-year fixed rate mortgage have the payment be no more than a quarter of my take-home pay? So that would be my next homework assignment for you. Right. for you right well i i've been thinking about it for a while now um and i had been waiting to like really get into it until i got a more reliable like car um but i i just purchased one a month

ago and actually with the sale of my motorcycle my old car i came out net positive great um for the new car which is nice um so it just depends on like the area I want to live in. But because if I stay where my direct family is in this small city, we live north of Buffalo. I mean, houses are affordable and I could probably get like a thousand square foot house for like 150. But where I want to live closer to the city, it's probably going to be more expensive. And I don't know, because now I'm hearing that there's going to be another 75-point basis hike. Well, don't believe everything you hear. And even with the interest rates, you can always refinance later on. So I don't want you to focus on that. Focus on what you

can afford based on those parameters. That way you're not looking at emotion, you're looking at facts. And the facts are when it's less than a quarter of your take-home pay on a 15-year fixed, you have margin. You can breathe. No matter what's going on in the economy, you've got wiggle room. That's what that's all about. And don't settle. Don't settle for a house just because, well, I can afford it now.

Be patient. And if you rent for a year, it's okay. Yeah. Nothing wrong with that, man. But keep living debt-free, keep saving. You're going to get there, Mark. Appreciate the call. This is the Ramsey show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Ken Coleman. This is The Ramsey Show. It's a free call, 888-825-5225. Richard joins us up next in beautiful Chattanooga, Tennessee.

Richard, welcome to the show. Thank you so much, fellas. Enjoy dinner tonight. Nashville's got a ton of great restaurants. Thank you, Richard. And thank you, Richard. George is showing me one of his favorite haunts in his neck of the woods, so I'm on George's home turf.

Yeah, it's very exciting. Uh-oh. Uh-oh. I know. How can we help today? I just need you to hold my hand through this. I've got a very athletic daughter who is going to go to school next year. Doesn't get a lot of money for athletics, but we got the tally this week that it's going to be,

after an academic scholarship of $15,000 plus, it's going to be $38,000 a year. We have sacrificed and paid cash for them for private schools here uh in town and still have one in high school for another three years and she can go to our in-state school um and we can it it's a wash we can we can pay cash for it but she wants to fulfill her quote dream what's wrong with the in-state school in her mind oh she loves it that was her first love but the coach did not reach out to her and and oh she can't do athletics there no she can she could walk on but this was the one the place she wants to go is the one place where the coach showed her some love and responded and reached out. And it's not a big sport.

It's track and field. So she gets a book stipend and a little bit of help. But at the end of the day, she can go to her in-state school. I'm a Georgia resident, even though I live in Chattanooga, right outside of town. And she can get the biggest scholarship because of her ACT and AP courses, and we can pay for it in cash, and she can try to walk on. But I don't have the support of her or my wife because my wife wants her to, quote, fulfill her dream and whatever it takes to fulfill her dream.

And we're debt-free except for our house. And we're not going to take on additional debt and student loans. Right. So you've made this clear. Yes. I have. I have. And my daughter says she's going to do it on her own.

And she wants to pursue. And I told her the anchor and the noose around her neck for 20 or 30 years after she already gets out of school that she's still going to be paying on this. So she's willing to pay $152,000, go into debt for that, because a coach showed her some love. That's what I'm hearing. What's the academic direction? Has she expressed maybe the major or the career field that she wants to go into? She wants to be in sports medicine, orthopedics and or uh rehabilitation physical therapy she's a good athlete yeah so he's an athlete but it's it's not like she's playing football for this university

and getting a full ride 100 so so uh so richard uh i've got three kids i know exactly the dilemma you're in when you tell kids this doesn't make any sense and they don't hear a word you're saying it's like the teacher on charlie brown wow wow wow that's all your wife your daughter's hearing and your wife's not helping out which is that is just brutal however the only chance i think uh that you have to uh persuade her because this is what this boils down to. This is a persuasion. You can't force her. She can go out and get the loans in her name, unfortunately,

and these student loans, these predatory companies, the federal government, they don't give a crap about these kids. So she can do it whether you want her to or not. So now this is a persuasion game. So here's what I think you've got to do. I think you've got to show her real numbers i don't think you level-headed uh sweet kind posture none of that's going to get her attention you've already tried that so i think what you have to do is is george you know gave you the number so you write down 150 000 plus on paper okay and then you go do the research and show her what uh range of salary could be in

the first three to five years in any one of those three fields you just listed out to me right go do your homework all that's readily available and then run the numbers you can go find this out but run the numbers on what her student loan payment on that kind of money is going to be per month and just show her how long it would take to pay it off plus what she would be paying in minimums without making any dent you know what i'm saying just like literally take all reason and emotion out of it just go hey i i don't want to be obnoxious and annoying dad but do you trust me enough to be obnoxious and annoying dad, but do you trust me enough to look at these numbers?

And I want you to know I've done the research. I want to show you what this is going to mean to you the minute you get out of school and you have to pay these back. I think you've got to show her the numbers and let her soak on that, let her chew on that, and then show her the option of going to the state school and then show her how little money she would have to pay. And you just literally paint a picture for her that is just as straightforward as she could possibly see

and say, you would have to work this amount of years to pay off this much this year. I mean, show her that whole narrative. And there's a false narrative that if I go to this school with this coach, it's going to get me closer to my dream. But the truth is it's going to make her further away than ever because when she gets out of school, every bit of her income has got a name on it, Sally Mae.

And, Richard, this doesn't include if she wants to go sports medicine to a doctor level or to a therapist level where she's going to have to get additional training. Correct. So a reminder of what her goals are, to be in sports medicine as a career, not to be a track and field star for the rest of her life. So let's make that a very small part of the equation. And the bigger part, how can we do this debt-free so that you can do sports medicine wherever

you want to do, get paid whatever you want to get paid, and not have to worry about payments? Because right now I'm looking at $1,600 in payments, $50,000 in interest as soon as she graduates. And I want to go also, I'm going to lay out our budget, what we do every month, and show her what the increase would be if we paid cash for this and then put a cap on it and say, this is what we can pay. Other than that, you're on your own and do the tough love. But we're not going to eat rice and beans, beans and rice. No, she can eat beans and rice.

Exactly. You want to help her avoid the stupid tax here because you love her dearly. But the truth is, she's her own person. If she wants to go down that road, like Ken said, you can't stop her. But what you can do is sit down with her as a loving dad and not to nag her. But here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to send you a link to Borrowed Future, the documentary. We're going to pay for it.

So hang on the line. Austin will pick up. We'll get you a code to watch that. Maybe you go on a daddy-daughter date. And that includes watching the Borrowed Future documentary. It's 88 minutes, and I promise you, it will cause her to start asking questions. Yeah. It may not change her mind overnight, but she may go, hold on, Dad, did I, you hear that story of the guy, the orthodontist who went a million dollars into debt?

And so I think that will help at least start a new conversation. Yeah. I really appreciate that, you all. One quick question, and I didn't call for that, but I appreciate that you all uh one quick question and i didn't call for that but i appreciate that um if nothing else can if i can't convince her and i'm still fighting uphill battle with mama and her do i let her just take it on for one year and just sit back and just let her see firsthand what it's gonna well she won't see anything because she won't have to pay a dime until six months after she graduates.

So she has no concept of what this payment feels like when you have a starter salary in sports medicine. And show her that. Show her what a starter salary in sports medicine, show her what the taxes will be, what her net will be, how much of her income the student loan payment will be, and then show her what kind of life she's going to have. Richard, I want to go back to two things we said earlier to remind you to answer that question.

Number one, you can't control it. She can go do it if she wants to do it, and it sucks. But there's no letting her do anything. Secondly, before you sit down with your daughter and show her those numbers, that exercise I laid out, you need to show that to your wife. And I think this is the nuclear card. You look at your wife and go, babe, I'm pleading for you to support me on this and help us try to persuade our daughter. You need to look at these numbers.

Do you really want her to do this? I'd go that direction, too. Well, and at this point, he just looks like the bad guy. Because mom and daughter are going, oh, gosh, what a fuddy-duddy. He doesn't want me to have my dream. The dream will become a nightmare. We've seen it time and time again with this student loan crisis, guys. Avoid it at all costs.

It's a plague. That puts this hour of The Ramsey Show in the books. My thanks to my co-hosts, Ken Coleman, all the folks in the booth keeping the show afloat, and to you, America. We appreciate you listening. We'll be back with you before you know it. Hey, folks. Ken Coleman here. Did you know The Ramsey Show is one of the most popular podcasts in the world? Get your daily dose of advice on life and money. Check out all of our shows from The Ramsey Network wherever you listen to podcasts.