The Ramsey Show - App - Pay Cash for the Car and Smile While You Drive It (Hour 1)

Episode Date: November 15, 2018

The show about you

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. This is your show, America. Thank you for joining us. Open phones this hour as we talk about your life and your money and how those things are tied together. You know, occasionally I catch crap from you people. When some of you in the listening audience, when I address someone who's shacking up versus being married, and you think that I'm just being overly Bible thumping or Christian or something like that.

That could be true. I can be accused of those things, and that's fine. And be guilty. Guilty as charged. But why would that be? Why would I bother and intersect your life on a personal level like that when you're calling to ask me about something else because it's an economic problem really interesting article this week in the federalist federalist.com the federalist.com if you want to look up the article the article says the research proves the number one social justice imperative is marriage.

I don't have time to go through the whole article, but this is just really intriguing research. It says just 70 years ago, social mobility and protection from poverty were largely a factor of employment. Those who had full-time work of any kind were seldom poor. Fifty years ago, education marked the gulf, separating the haves and the have-nots. For the last 20 years or more, though, marital status has increasingly become the central factor in whether our neighbors and their children rise above, remain, or descend into poverty. The research is astounding. In 1960, the poorly and moderately educated were only 10% less likely to be married

than the college educated, with both numbers quite high, 84 and 94% respectively. That parity largely held until the late 1970s, i.e. the sexual revolution, by the way. Professor Bill Galston, President Clinton's domestic policy advisor and now a senior fellow at Brookings, explained that in the early 1990s that an American need only to do three things to avoid living in poverty. Graduate from high school, marry before having a child, and have that child after age 20.

Only 8% of the people who do so, he reported, will be poor, while 79% who fail to do those all three will be poor. If you fail to do that, wait until after 20 to have kids, wait to have kids until after you're married and graduate from high school, you're 79% more likely to be in poverty. Only 8% who follow the sequence are in poverty. You want to deal with poverty? Get it in the right order.

That's what the data shows. Graduate from high school, get married, have a kid, after you're married, after 20. Those are the only things you've got to do. And then you have a 92% likelihood you won't be in poverty. You have a 79% likelihood you will be in poverty if you don't do it in that order that's amazing sociologists have referred to keeping these things in proper order as the success sequence it remains true according to new research investigation from brookings and the american enterprise institutes takes a deeper look at the first comes love then comes marriage sequence by class and by generation a recent report on this topic focusing on millennials reports that 97% of those who follow the success sequence

earn at least a high school diploma, work, and marry before having children, will not be poor as they enter their 30s. This is largely true for ethnic minorities and those who grew up in poor families. But sadly, fewer millennials are keeping these things in order compared to their boomer and X or four bearers. By the way, if you don't know the statistics, sidebar, more people now live together that are not married than live together who are married. Yeah, if you're old enough to remember Leave it to Beaver, June and Ward Cleaver, they're

dead, okay? More people now shack up than not. Interesting. now shack up than not interesting and it's the success sequence of first comes love is so much more than moral choice according to this article or romantic idealism these are deeply pragmatic economic decisions powerfully affecting class mobility where people live on the social scale and the opportunities they will be able to provide for their children this is because of the extraordinary economic power of marriage the consistent and irrefutable mountain of research has shown reading reaching back to the 1970s and beyond that marriage strongly boosts every important measure of well-being for children, women, and men.

Pick any measure you can imagine. Overall physical and mental health, income, savings, employment, educational success, general life contentment, happiness, sexual satisfaction, even recovery from serious disease, healthy diet and exercise. Married people rate markedly and consistently better in each of these, and so many more compared to their single, divorced, and cohabitating peers. This, thus, marriage is an essential active ingredient in improving one's overall life prospects, regardless of class, race, or educational status. That is why it's not merely one parent versus two parent families that make the difference. The U.S. Census Bureau finds that the poverty rate for children living in poverty

with two unmarried cohabitating parents is similar to that of single mother homes, rather than those that were married mother and father married people regardless of how much they have tend to manage their money differently than divorced single and cohabitating people this just goes on and on and on and on where is it only four percent of the homes with a married mother and father are on food stamps but 21% of cohabitating and 28% of single mother homes require such public assistance. There's a high correlation between economically winning and getting married before having children, graduating from high school, and having children after 20. These are decisions.

You get to decide. You're not a victim of your choices. You are a result of your choices. You get to decide these things. Decide these things. Here's another example. Did you know that you're statistically very likely to stay married if you're engaged at least six months? You want to add probability to stay married?

Engage six months and make $50,000 a year household income or greater. Oh, add probability to that? Four years of education. Oh, add probability to that? Pre-marriage counseling in-depth. Not a drive-by, one-hour session with the preacher, but I'm talking about in-depth pre-marriage counseling where you talk about her mama. Yeah, you can change this.

You can make decisions to change your whole direction of your family tree. This marriage thing is real. This is very interesting. Very interesting. The Federalist.com. The research proves the number one social justice imperative is real. This is very interesting. Very interesting. TheFederalist.com. The research proves the number one social justice imperative is marriage. Why in the world would you trust some random guy in a cube when getting your mortgage?

Do you really think he cares about your long-term money goals? Well, he doesn't. Those companies care about getting you into whatever home loan program they're pushing that week. When it comes to ordering a cheeseburger, the meal deal works fine. But let's get real, people. We're talking about the largest investment you'll probably ever make, so don't be naive and trust an order taker who pressures you into a prepackaged loan. My friends at Churchill Mortgage have been helping my listeners for over 25 years. order taker who pressures you into a pre-packaged loan. My friends at Churchill Mortgage have been helping my listeners for over 25 years. Call Churchill Mortgage and get custom solutions from an expert within 10 minutes.

It's simple. They'll shoot straight with you and quickly show you the real way to save money. Call 888-LOAN-200. That's 888-LOAN-200 or visit churchillmortgage.com. This is a paid advertisement. NMLS ID 1591. NMLSconsumeraccess.org. Equal Housing Lender 761 Old Hickory Boulevard, Redwood, Tennessee 37027. Thanks for joining us, America. Tori is with us in Cleveland, Ohio. Hi, Tori. How are you?

Hi, Dave. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. What's up in your world? Well, I'm preparing for separation, and I'm not quite sure what to do with my debt, specifically my student loan debt. Okay. A separation from your husband or your job? I'm sorry. Yes, from your husband or your job? I'm sorry about that. Yes, from my husband. Okay. And so you're preparing for a separation. How long have you all been married?

About 22 years. Oh, my goodness. It must be bad. It's just that we are just not on the same page anymore with other things, but with money as well, and it's just something I just don't want to go on with. Have you guys been seeing a marriage counselor? That's something he's not willing to do. Have you gone? No. Okay.

Please do that for you, even if he won't go. Okay. I think it will give you good um emotional information 22 years is a long time and you need to have somebody walk with you who's not in the fog if you go through this and or give you some and maybe maybe give you some information to give him a little bit of a wake-up call as well but back to your original question i have a friend of mine that teaches divorce recovery recovery after a divorce and um i remember many years ago hearing her say divorce turns a marriage into a business transaction

and so it comes it real quickly the emotions are carved off and set over to one side and the actual technical legal financial details are on the other side. And it becomes a very transactional kind of thing at that point. Does that make sense? Yes, it does. And so here's a couple of things to look at. Your student loans are your student loans. They're going to go with you.

You may or may not get alimony, child support, or something else, but your student loans're going to go with you. You may or may not get alimony, child support, or something else, but your student loans are going to go with you, and you're going to have to pay them. So what is your personal income? It's $50,000. Okay. And so what you start doing is, if this is a direction that, you know, after seeing a counselor and doing everything you can to save a 22-year investment,

and with all the help you can get, you start preparing for living on your own for $50,000 a year. And you look at your student loans. How much student loan debt have you got? Oh, you're going to kill me. I'm sorry? $160,000. Oh, my Lord. Okay.

Well, I would let them know that this is going on hardship deferral until you get past whatever else is going on here. Okay. Now, do you all own a home? Yes. What's it worth? $200,000. What's owed on it? $170,000. 000 okay so no equity there to amount to anything all right is your car paid for yes is his car paid for no okay is your name on that loan

no good okay are there any credit cards that have both of your names on them? There is one, but I refuse to let him use it. I'm sorry? Oh, you refuse to let him use it? Oh, better than that. Close that account today. Just completely close the credit card. If he has the number, he can use it if he's one of the users on the card.

Period. And if things go sideways emotionally inside your house, I have run into situations in 30 years of doing this where somebody takes a Mexico trip and puts it on the card. And you don't want to pay for a $5,000 cruise for somebody else. And it'll end up on this card. So close the account today. Just completely shut it down.

Is it zero balance? Yes. Good. Close it. Okay. Does your checking account have both names on it? No. Okay.

So your money is separated by and large. Is there any other debt or debt instrument that's open that has both of your names on it? No. No. Okay. All right. Except your mortgage probably has both your names on it. Okay.

So here's what happens. You can't afford to keep this house. You can't stay there. No. So the house needs to either be refinanced to get your name off of the mortgage or sold. You cannot stay on the mortgage and give him the house. That would be dumb. And people often do that in a divorce.

They often do that. But just, you know, the negotiation is the car is in his name. He keeps his car. Your car is in your name. You keep your car. Your checking accounts are already separated. There's no other debt. You get your student loan debt.

Does he have any big savings or investments, or do you, in 401Ks? Not big, no. How much? I have $10,000 in 401K, and I'm not sure what he has, but I'm thinking it's about $5,000 or $6,000. Not much at all. Okay. What is his income? It's around $90,000.

Okay. In most states, your attorney would have to advise you, but in most states, you would be due some alimony after 22 years and that will going with your 50 000 is how you will reset your life and stay out of debt and start working your way through these student loans that are outrageous and are going to take you some time to work through um but you're going to be working extra job you're going to be doing everything else taking any any money you can squeeze out of your budget and you are not going to mexico you got a mess on your hands okay no i'm not so um unless it's to escape no just kidding but uh but the so you know you're gonna be on beans and rice rice and beans you're gonna get the cheapest apartment you can get you're gonna stay debt free and

address these student loans as soon as you can get stabilized after the separation, which will lead to a divorce unless it leads to you all getting back together. Okay. But you prepare for separation the same way financially you would prepare for a divorce, and that puts you in a position of strength to negotiate in the divorce financially, and that's something that you'll have to do. And your attorney and you get representation and you be ready to pay them pile up money for deposits and for paying them don't pay extra on the student loans until you get the other side of this and i just put them on hardship deferral and pay nothing

right now but let's get the other side of this but but my hope is is that you guys you can see a counselor who can give you some words to say some some tools to give Bubba a wake-up call. Maybe the two of you sit down with a coach, a counselor, and walk you through turning the corner on all of this before you get so far around the corner we can't get you back. And maybe you can save this thing. That would be best for everybody involved, assuming the issues that you have that are causing you such concern are addressed.

And I'm sure that sounds like it's a pretty long list, but sit down and address them. See a counselor for your sake. Call your pastor. Say, who can I sit down with that can walk me through the right questions to ask myself, the right questions to ask him, because he may think you're kidding. He may think you're bluffing. And when you actually move out, it may wake him up, and he may be willing to work on that list at that point.

I don't know. But those kinds of things are best guided by a really good marriage counselor that's really experienced and wise and godly counsel will help you in that situation. And I sure hope you guys can turn that around. That would be my hope for you. It'd be better for all of you financially as well as everything else. So good question. Thank you for joining us. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

You jump in. We'll talk about your life and your money interesting data that just came out on an article i read on the air about marriage and that men who are married make more on average about 15 percent more than men who aren't married women make 25 to 30 percent more that are married than aren't married. I don't know why that is exactly, but it's an interesting discussion to think about. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Let me tell you a story about two families that are very much alike in a lot of ways. Both families have two working parents and a couple of young kids. Each has debt and has struggled to make ends meet. But they're starting to make headway with their budgets and smarter decisions with money. They have dreams and plans, and the only real difference is that one family has the right amount of term life insurance, and the other doesn't.

Big difference. If one of the parents die, and that does happen, their well-being would be destroyed. Paying for the mortgage, utilities, food, and other bills would be impossible, let alone saving for education or retirement. That's why every day I talk relentlessly about getting term life insurance. Just go to zanderinsurance.com or call 800-356-4282 and see how inexpensive it really is. Be the family that takes those deliberate steps to be different and responsible. It really does make you the hero of your story, and it puts you on course for better things ahead. Thank you for joining us, America.

We're glad you're here. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Preston is with us in Jacksonville, Florida. Hi, Preston. How are you? I'm doing great, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. Sure.

What's up? So I'm currently on baby steps four and six, and I'm calling about my house and whether or not I should start throwing all my extra money at it that's left in my budget because I'm 30, I'm single, and I'm worried that, you know, when God does provide me that woman that's going to be my bride, my goal is to have the house paid off by I'm 40. If I get it paid off, maybe she doesn't want to be here forever home, and I'm not sure that I'll stay here. So does it make sense to start throwing all that money at it to get it paid off early, two years into the mortgage, goal to pay it off by the time I'm 40?

I was wondering if you think it makes sense to throw all that money at it when you're a single male. I'm not sure if I'm going to stay here forever. Absolutely, you should throw the money at it. Here's the interesting thing. We're not spending the money. When you reduce your mortgage and your home is paid off and you sell your home, they give you a check,

and all that money comes back to you. So it's not like you're throwing the money away. You're actually investing it at the rate of interest that your mortgage's interest is. How much is your mortgage interest rate? It is 3.375%, sir. Okay, so you have a 3.375% savings account that you can't withdraw from until you sell it. Yes, sir, and I just chunked. I'm sorry.

Yeah, just chunk it in there. I mean, 15% of your income in baby step four going into retirement. Live your life and extra money that you find or squeeze, throw it at the mortgage until the house is paid off. If you do pay it off and uh said young lady comes along and you guys choose not to live there or you just choose not to live there you sell the house they give you a check all that money comes back to you we're not spending the money the money's not leaving it's just being deposited into the house you see the difference yes sir it's not going

anywhere so yeah yeah i'm gonna go ahead and pay it on the house. There's no downside to this, except that you can't get to the money without selling the house, which is actually kind of a good thing. Cindy is with us in Houston, Texas. Hi, Cindy. How are you? Good. How about you?

Better than I deserve. What's up? Well, me and my husband are currently working the baby steps. We're in baby step number two, and I'm sorry, I'm under the weather. Okay. We recently celebrated our 30th wedding anniversary. Yay. Yay.

And with that, he went out and purchased me this beautiful wedding anniversary ring and put it on credit. And it's $ thousand dollars additional and i'm torn between keeping it or returning it i don't understand how his brain works i thought you said the two of you were working on a plan to get out of that i thought we were too yes i'm more concerned about the fact that he's not on this plan than I am the ring. I agree. Because, I mean, next week he's going to finance power tools. Yes. And then he's going to come on with a new bass boat three weeks from now.

Well, how about a new lawnmower? There you go. There you go. Let's finance that $6,000 John Deere lawnmower. You might be a redneck if you have payments on your riding mower. Yes. You know, I mean, serious. Do you see the breakdown?

Yes. The breakdown is we can't get out of a hole while we're digging out the bottom. That's what I told him. So I'm a lot more concerned about his lack of grasp that this was the family goal than I am, whether or not you keep this ring. Personally, I'd take it back. I mean, I've been married 35 years. And it'd be nice to have a nice ring, and you can get you another ring. I mean, there's stupid rings everywhere.

I mean, it's not a big thing. It's not like it's your wedding ring or something. It was an anniversary gift that you all couldn't afford. Exactly. And, I mean, sweet, but dumb. Mm-hmm. You know? Right?

Yes, I agree. But I think the thing is here, yeah, I'm probably taking it back, but more importantly, I want to take his brain and screw it back in a little bit better, you know? And the two of y'all decide are we really doing this or not because otherwise you're never going to get there because apparently he's not on the same page you're on that's big thing i mean 90 of this question is around that 10 on whether keep the ring or not see and so this ring is not going to make or break your get out of debt plan one way or the other.

But this behavior will. And this lack of being on the same page will. So, you know, let's just talk this through and make sure we're on the same page. And then you guys decide together what to do with the ring. And I don't know. It just represents dumb. And so I'm not ever going to really be able to enjoy it if I'm you because it's just in violation of where you thought your whole family was heading. It's like, just kind of, you know, you guys are just too old to do that kind of stuff.

So, I mean, that's 20-year-old stuff right there. Open phones at 888-825-5225.a is with us in fort worth hey shea how are you i'm good how are you dave better than i deserve what's up um so i recently discovered you i guess recently it was about three years ago um started doing a few things we uh we ended up selling a house to get out of debt um from your teachings. My father died about five years ago on a motorcycle accident, and there were a bunch of life insurance policies that went through. Our personal financial advisor has been advising my mother ever since then. And the question that I have is he put her in an annuity about five years ago

whenever my dad died, $300,000 into the annuity. And then the other investments he just invested, and they've been growing a little bit here and there. But the question is the annuity. Just recently we've hit the five-year mark, and he's advising her to pull the money out and start investing it, which I think is a good idea. However, the question is that should she have had the money invested initially

at the beginning of the term, you know, instead of putting annuity? She brings home about $3,500 a month in retirement and Social Security, so she doesn't need the draw on the annuity at all. And he knew this at the beginning of the time. Well, yeah, you're right. That makes me question other things that are going on that I don't know what they are if I'm you. Right.

Because I personally would have put all of it into good investments at the time. You know, is the home paid off? Home is paid off 100%. Cars are paid off. She has zero debt. Zero. Good, good, okay. And how much is in investments total, this $300,000 plus? Home is paid off 100%. Cars are paid off. She has zero debt. Zero. Good. Good.

Okay. And how much is in investments total, this $300,000 plus? Yeah, we're looking at probably about $420,000, $450,000 total with all the investments. If you add the house, another $50,000 to $60,000. Yeah, how old is she? Possibly 100 there. How old is she? She just turned 60. Okay.

All right. Cool. And she's just turned 60. Okay. All right. Cool. And she's in great health. So she's not like an old 60-year-old who's on her way out. She's in great health. Good. I'm feeling better at 57 to hear you say that. So I'm not on my way out today either.

Anyway, at least not to my knowledge anyway. So, yeah, I'm probably going to question all of that. I mean, it's not like you put her in a whole life policy, which would be like a deal breaker or something silly like that. I mean, just the annuity has got a lot more fees to it, a lot more commission to it. And if it was a variable annuity and the money was in good mutual funds, it probably performed okay. They're okay. But it's not my favorite thing to do. But it's not to the point that I, like, question his entire competency. I just really want to know if it wasn't right for her then.

If it's not right for her now, why was it right for her then? That's a good question in your mind, Mr. Advisor. And I think you've got the right to ask that question and talk it through with them. And if you can't get a comfort level or if he bows up on you and starts having an attitude, then that's when you know it's time to move anyway. So you do that with any financial people or people that are advising you on technical matters. When they start getting like you have to owe them an explanation instead of vice versa, it's time to move on. Insurance lady gets an attitude. It's time to move on, right?

Your estate planner is too smart to sit down and explain something to you. Then it's time to move on. So, you know, you just got to get folk in your corner that have the heart of a teacher. So if he can walk you guys through what his thinking was and you can get comfortable with it, then you'd stay with him and continue to invest in good growth stock mutual funds with long track records, which is where I personally would have had her the whole time. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. We're glad you're here. Thanks for joining us, America. This is the Dave Ramsey Show.

We're glad you're here. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Mike is in Denver. Hey, Mike, how are you? Good. How are you, Dave? Better than I deserve. What's up? Awesome.

So I'm in a real tricky situation. Well, it's tricky to me. So I'm 37. My wife's 35. She's a professional. I'm self-employed. I have two daughters, one on the way, and we live in a 1,900-square-foot home that has about, I believe, $320,000 in equity. We were considering buying a new home, big enough for all five of us. The market here in Colorado is outrageous. Pricing is really sky high. So what I'm considering doing is pulling equity out of the home and putting on an addition. As I am a project, you know, I do projects that are to this extent, so I would be saving quite a bit on contractor fees. So I guess my question is, I'm not sure if you've dealt with anything like this before, I'm sure, or what you recommend as far as putting the family through this type of a project ending up with a you know six thousand square foot home owing only 420 at the end and also the value of the home at that time would

be somewhere in the upper nine hundred to a million. What is the typical home sell for within a two- or three-block area of your house? About the typical homes, and there's not really a typical home in our area. It's all over the place because it's horse property. There's, you know, 1,500-square-foot homes, and then there's also $3 million homes across the street. So a comp for my home is about $410,000, $420,000. Yeah, but that wasn't what I was asking. I was trying to determine if you're trying to overbuild the neighborhood.

It doesn't sound like it. No. Because it's an area that's got this wide, diverse price range. And that doesn't mean you – because I don't want you to build a $900,000 home on a $600,000 street. Right. Because you couldn't get out of it. We do have a $2.3 million home just right around the corner. And then there's an 870 caddy corner to where I am at.

Yeah, when's the baby due? Baby is due at the end of January. Okay. Well, I sure wouldn't start it before then. No. No. Have you got some plans drawn yet? Yeah, I've been working on that with an architect.

We're, you know, buttoning down what we want to do, but we're just, you know, I've never spoken with any expert about this, and I'm not sure if this is probably the way to go. Well, the big thing, you know, I mean, there's two or three factors. One is you don't want to overbuild the neighborhood. We've addressed that. Two is you want to see can your family handle, you know, construction noise for whatever time it takes you to put this thing up. It shouldn't be a 90-day project maybe. So two or three months, can they put up with that?

Well, they ought to be able to if everybody just says that's what we're going to do because moving is more disruptive than that. Right, and this project that we're considering doing just because of the industry that I'm in, we're thinking of, you know, it's more like a six-month project. So, I mean, we're considering adding almost 4,000 square feet to the home. Oh, wow. Like you're considering adding almost 4,000 square feet to the home. Oh, wow. Like you're just almost rebuilding another home. Yeah, to basically tripling the size of the home now.

Yeah. So you're going to end up with a new mortgage when you're done then? Right, a bigger mortgage of maybe, I think we're going to end up somewhere in the 420, 430. Yeah, and what's your household income? Household income, my wife makes about $55,000 to $6,000 a month, and I'm self-employed, so it varies. It can go from $5,000 to $10,000. What did you make last year?

Last year I was somewhere in the $220,000 area. Okay. Well, you can afford a mortgage on a 15-year fixed when you're done, but basically what you're going to be doing here is getting a construction loan, and then you're going to reset the construction loan in a permanent mortgage because it's almost like you're building a house. Correct. And when you're done, you need a regular 15-year fixed-rate mortgage where the payment is no more than a fourth of your take-home pay.

And if that's where you're going to end up and you've got a process to get there, then, yes, I would do that. I don't see any problem with it. It's just a massive project, and you're living next door to it. Yeah, that probably is going to take six months um most of the time when i think of an addition i don't think of a four thousand four thousand square foot addition to a 1900 square foot house ginger is with us in texas canna hi ginger how are you i'm doing great good how can i help how are you what i want to know is

my husband and i we have worked constantly for quite a while. And we have finally paid off our mortgages, all of our cars. Everything we own is paid for. Great. We have so much. We're still working, but we are, we have been drawing our social security now for a year and me almost a full year come next month. And up until now, we have been putting, well, no, last month, we have been putting all of that the savings. The last three months, two months, I guess you'd say, we have been putting our income that we work at in savings and living off our Social Security.

Okay. My question to you is, with our retirement 401s, our savings that we have, and what our total expenses would be for a whole year with our income on Social Security. What would you think of us retiring at the end of next year? How old are you? Huh? How old are you?

I'm 66 and he is 67. Okay. And how much do you have in your 401Ks and your nest eggs? Okay. In the 401, we jointly have $120,000. Okay. And how much do you have in your 401Ks and your nest eggs? Okay. In the 401, we jointly have $120,000. In our next eggs, we have right at another $100,000. Mm-hmm. Okay.

That's $220,000. Yes, sir. And just round numbers, I mean, if you made 10% on it, that would be $22,000 a year. Okay. Okay. I had never figured that out. You know, and so if you invested and it did that, if you invested and it did that, and then you add your Social Security to that, I mean, you're not going to be living lavishly.

I mean, you'd have a few thousand dollars a month to live on but i mean you got 1500 1800 bucks a month coming off this money is what we're talking about here and um and plus your social security and if you can live on those numbers then you can retire if you want to but uh that's not going to be an easy i mean it's not going to be retiring in luxury uh but you should have fairly low expenses because everything's paid off. So that's good. I'd love for you to have another 100 in there anyway, but if you can work a little bit more and knock that out,

that might not be a bad thing. But if you guys are just, you know, you're done and you want to live on that, that's fine. But I would not set up a thing where I'm draining down that 220 systematically just to retire now because there's an end to that game called hunger, and I don't want to get there. You don't want to destroy this goose, so you just live off the golden eggs only. So whatever, you know, you sit down with your investment professional. If you don't have one, sit down with one of our smart investor pros and talk about investing this $220,000 in a way that creates an income that you can live off of that plus your Social Security.

And if you can do that, then you're in a position to do it. But, again, it's not going to be a luxurious retirement. You're not traveling the world and, you know, and that kind of stuff on this income. But but but I think you can do it. It's just a matter. Are you willing to live that frugally and put your budget together and say, these are the numbers and I'm going to live on less than this. And that's the only way we can retire. And then, again, sit down with a SmartVestor Pro.

Click SmartVestor at DaveRamsey.com. It'll list the people in your area we recommend, and one of them will help you try to dial this in. But that's how I would look at it. Good question. Thank you for joining us. That puts this hour of the Dave Ramsey Show on the books. Our thanks to James Childs, our producer, Blake Thompson, our senior executive producer, and Kelly Daniel, our associate producer and phone screener. I am Dave Ramsey, your host, and we'll be back.

Hey, guys, this is James Childs, producer of The Dave Ramsey Show. I'm excited to announce that we're now carried on 600 radio stations across the country. To find one near you, head to daveramsey.com slash show.