The Ramsey Show - App - People Can Handle Bad News Better Than No News (Hour 2)

Episode Date: April 17, 2020

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Marriage, kids, grown kids, parents that should be grown and aren't, grandparents misbehaving, toxic work environments, anxiety, fear. That covers a lot of it. All of it. There's a few things there. All of it. If you have questions in those areas as well as money questions, phone lines are available for you. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Carlos is with us in California. Hi, Carlos. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up? Yeah, I'm a Christian, and I'm calling about my daughter and son-in-law

and some financial decisions that they're making really about their housing situation. And so I understand the leave and cleave principle, even though that's kind of vague about going the other way with the father-in-law to the son-in-law. And then also about not offering unsolicited advice. But the situation is that my son-in-law, he's wanting to move into an apartment situation to share the rent burden with a friend of his and his girlfriend. And so my son-in-law and daughter have been married for less than two years, and they've had their share of financial disagreements and problems. And so they're wanting to move to LA because it's a better job market than where he's at. And so he says he has jobs lined up,

but he's only working part-time right now, but he's wanting to get this apartment at $2,800 a month. So their portion would be $1,400 a month. And I just don't see that that's, you know, practical for them. My daughter's a full-time student in the last year of her degree, so she's not working. And he's working part-time, but then he wants to move, get another job, but then he also wants to be a student and so how long have they been married thinking clear you said two years two years yeah how old are they in their early 20s yeah okay sounds like they are there's a whole bunch of there's a whole bunch of goofball stuff on this list that that lines up with stuff i would have done when i was 22 so i so dave this

is fascinating. I've got what I would consider clinical thoughts that are coming from theoretically, but you've got adult daughters. I'm fascinated as you as a dad. How do you make these phone calls? What do you do as a dad? And then I'll come back with some more theoretical advice. That's my question. Well, I mean, are you in proximity physically with him to where you can sit down and in person have a cup of coffee?

Yes. Good. Away from your daughter and away from your wife. Yes. Yeah, and you keep the same tone quality that you've had with us here on the air. You don't let your octaves go up. Like when you're pissed, you know, kind of octave, okay? So here's the tack I would take, and I have taken a few times.

I'm convinced emotionally from your perspective, Carlos, or my perspective that having grown children who have their own brains and their own lives and their own rights, it might be the most difficult part of parenting because stupid is not illegal you know that's the new dave ramsey bumper sticker stupid is not it's just and you can't you can't go you know you're breaking the law here but listen the chances of me being excited about them moving in with

another couple who was shacking up that's just danger danger danger will robbins i mean it's just like this is, oh, God. As a dad, I'm freaking out. So anyway, the tact I have taken, the only one that has been successful, and I have managed to do this with my sons-in-law, even my daughter-in-law, is I have never put on my dad voice. I just keep my friend voice. And I'm just an older friend who loves you dearly,

unconditionally. And I'm going to love you even if you're stupid, but I'm your older friend and I'm going to put my arm around you and I'm going to take you for a coffee and we're going to sit out in the sun and we're going to tell stories about the times that you failed and things that you did that goofed up as a method of setting the table for persuasion and just pretend like he's not married to your daughter that he's just a 22 year old goofball that you want to help and um because i was a 22 year old goofball and got older men sometimes walked along beside me even my grandpa and didn't use his grandpa voice instead used his uh older wiser friend voice

and said, I love you, and I just think I'm scared for you, man. I don't want you to do this. And it hasn't got anything to do with the fact you're married to my daughter. It kind of does, but it doesn't. And you just don't use it. And I try to convince a friend rather than my son-in-law. Right. I appreciate that. It changes the language I use, the tone I use, the body language look I've got,

because I've not got a 45 pointing at his forehead or something like that. All that kind of stuff, you know. John, clinically, clinically, John, what do you got? Carlos, I want to tell you, I know that there's that conventional wisdom about don't, you know, you need to let them do their thing and don't, you know, you need to be quiet. I'm going to let them make their boundaries there. If you love somebody, you open your mouth. And what you need to just be careful of, like Dave just mentioned, is don't be tied to outcome.

You have this conversation. I think that's brilliant. And just for whatever it's worth, I'm 42 and Dave has had some good wisdom conversations with me over the last year. And so I hopefully that continues for all of us. And so you may be giving this young man a gift and your daughter a gift. But at some point, you're going to have to say I spoke my piece, I said it in love, and I said I respected their autonomy. And then I'm not tied to the outcome. And then important thing for them to know is there will be a bed there when things go

sideways, or there won't be right, whatever you and your wife decide is the right way to handle that. But being clear and being kind and not being tied to the outcome of how this plays out. Right, right. Thank you for that advice. For me, as the father-in-law, Dave, what would you give as far as financial principles to couples considering that type of scenario? The moving in with them scenario? Right.

And, you know, well, being responsible for $1,400, I mean, that I feel goes against the 25% principle. They're not near making that much. And then the compromise of being with you know sharing that debt load with with another couple listen when you execute a bad plan it generally brings scars and pain and i'm trying to keep you from executing a bad plan uh you don't have a stable income you're you're promising yourself and her that you're going to be able to do something, and you're going to be left looking like you're doofus if you go forward on this because this is not going to magically all work out just because it's in la-la land.

As a matter of fact, it's got a lot of things stacked against it because it's so expensive to live there. And lots of people move there with dreams and no plans, and their dreams become nightmares. So I would say I wouldn't be sharing an apartment with anybody under any circumstances in this situation. And I wouldn't be moving there until I had work lined up that justified the expense of an apartment. You're probably not going to stop them from doing it, but at least you can make them rethink some of it. But you're right to be concerned.

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That's chministries.org. That's chministries.org. CHM is a proud sponsor of Dave Ramsey Live Events. chministries.org. Thanks for joining us, America. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Dr. John Deloney joining me today on the air. Roxanne is up next. Roxanne's in Kentucky. Hey, Roxanne, what's up?

Hello. How are you doing? Great. How can we help? Thanks for taking my call. I'll give you a quick background, and then I'll ask my question. My husband is a physician for 21 years. In the past 10 to 12 years, he's been making investments off and on,

some that I've known about, some that I haven't. Two years ago, I found out that he had taken out some loans and credit cards without me knowing and took out $287,000 in debt to invest in certain variety of things. I found out about it. We paid it all down. We sold the house last year. He said that he would, we sold the house and downsized so we could pay off some of that debt or pay off. And he told me he wouldn't do it again, that he wouldn't make these decisions without me doing it with my knowledge. And Saturday night I found out that he had taken $45,000 against his 401K and made another investment in December.

So as of Saturday I've been living in the guest room, and I'm not sure where to go from here from now. I told him last time he did it I would leave, but I'm not sure if that's something I should do or not do. Have you guys seen a marriage counselor? We went one time and then last January, and I don't quite remember why we didn't go back. Honestly, I don't think he really wanted to go back. I thought maybe he could we could work it out ourselves so we haven't no so if you were going to call him names if you were going to call him names would you say he's a liar or he's arrogant he lies to me a lot about other things

and he oh yeah oh yeah uh like when I asked him, when did he make that? When he I found out Saturday he did the 401k. I said I assumed it was with the all the other stuff two years ago. And so I kind of went outside to see my work that night. We were actually listening to Dave Ramsey on the principal university Saturday night. And then it dawned on me, I said, when did you take out this loan? Because you don't have been paid paid back $800 in two years. I said, when did you take this out? He goes, oh, I don't remember.

I said, when did you take out this loan? Sometime in the past, I don't remember. And I looked it up because I figured out where it was. It was through his work. And it was December. So, yeah, he's lied in the past. I'll say, hey, did work go out slow? About non-money things, does he lie?

Yeah. I'll say, oh, you stuck at work today? He's like, yeah, it was a long day. And then find out later that he actually was out shopping and doing different things. Has he cheated on you before? Not cheat-cheat, no. What's cheat-cheat? like a fair or anything no has not what about a history of addiction addiction um the only addiction is this money he wants to get rich quick

um addiction is shopping at um discount stores and bringing home. I mean, he has like 25 water bottles, you know what I mean, refillable water bottles. He has addiction of the good deal, so I've got to get it. So you called asking a question about money, and I'll pipe in. And Dave, you've worked with these type of situations for 30 years. This doesn't sound like about money at all. Dave Neal, this is about deception and and lying and really this is about fantasy. And so if he hasn't, if there's not a history of infidelity also or also a history of addiction, I actually did some research with a group I called them resistant influentials,

which was doctors and lawyers and presidents of things and preachers, folks who were real smart and accomplished in one area of their life, and they liked to drag that perceived expertise all the way across, and they ended up with a wake of broken marriages and hurt people as they tried to take what they perceived as this all-knowing power and insight and wisdom into every facet of their life. The real question is you can't make him stop, and you have this fantasy that it's going to get better,

and this is what my marriage is going to look like. And at the end of the day, you know this, but whining and nagging, complaining, reasoning, none of those behaviors will make him stop. He's got to decide it. And so I default back to a psychologist who I love, Terrence Real, who just says you've got to draw a line. You have to have a if you don't, this will happen statement. and then you've got to have done the math on the back end both spiritually and emotionally and and financially to say here's here's my line here but the reality is this is not going to stop

and it clearly is not going to stop especially i mean with the wounds of just coming over two three hundred thousand dollars paying back and then hopping right back in it um and so you're gonna have to ask ask. That was the second time. Yeah. That's right. So I keep hoping it's going to stop and it's not. So I don't know what. So hope is a fantasy. I think the thing that's missing out of this is you guys need someone in your life guiding

you and you don't have anybody. There's no one that he respects that is looking at him saying, you are a screw-up. You are messing up your life. And so a good counselor will gain his confidence, not with manipulation, but just with relationship, and earn the right to say that and say, you are screwing up your life, and you're going to have to stop this. There's a good pastor in his life, a senior friend in his life that would sit down and guide the two of you, that also would give you some steps.

I would never tell you in a two-minute synopsis of your life that your marriage is over and you need to leave unless he's hitting you and then you need to get out of there but short of that but you know what you're calling about is you're just trying to confirm you're not crazy and you're not but you do need but i wouldn't i wouldn't just walk out i would do some work on this absolutely and go get some help and if he won't go go by yourself and get some guidance on how to draw the lines that John is talking about. Okay. Well, I just actually found a counselor for myself because I don't even know how to approach this anymore. Exactly.

Good. So she's going to help me. Good. And I can't drag him to counseling, so maybe I should start with my own counseling. That's fine. Absolutely. I'm going to a counselor, and we ought to go to marriage counseling also. There's nothing wrong with doing both simultaneously because you just need some guides because both of you are, you know, you just got a lot of trees around you, yeah, here's a map that is logical, a flow chart, if you will, that says if this continues, at this point, I am done.

But you can communicate that to him then, and you've communicated it once, one time, a long time ago, and then now you've got this one violation. But if it's continually, if there's a drumbeat of this is how this works, this is how this works, this is how that works, because that's what happens with people, for instance, that are married to an alcoholic. They come to the end that they've done all they're willing to do, and then that relationship's over because of the alcoholism. And that's what's going to happen here you will come to the end but you need to come there uh uh with a guide you've got something to go with guide and with a path of incremental and lots of communication to him to where he doesn't

feel like you know here's another example that that is a parallel to this when we have someone on our team uh out of our thousand folks that is not able to do the job or has some kind of a behavior issue in the way they're acting here at work, we don't just walk in and go, surprise, you're fired. We walk in and go, here's the things that you're doing wrong. Here's what you're going to have to not do. Here's what you're going to have to do in order to be able to stay. And then the first time they're half a button off on one of those, we say, time out.

We said, remember, you've got to get back in the lane, get back in the lane, get back in the lane. And what we will fire you over is not a singular event unless it's a major issue, but we will fire you over a pattern that is heading the wrong direction, that we have clearly communicated to you, you are heading down a road that is heading the wrong direction, that we have clearly communicated to you, you are heading down a road that leaves here. Now, do you want to stay on that road? And that's what you're telling him. But it's a pattern.

He has to make the choice. And then, in a sense, it's the natural consequences of him not dealing with this. And Roxanne, put him in the guest room. Go back in your bedroom. He doesn't get to sleep in the big bed you do ah mic drop this is the dave ramsey show Be more intentional with your time and money. Sign up for e-meals and let them do the thinking for you. They have a shopping list generator that makes it incredibly easy.

You can have your meals organized and planned for the week and have your groceries waiting for you when you get to the store. The average customer saves $2,000 a year and two hours a week. Get a free two-week trial at eMeals.com. The Dave Ramsey Show. Dr. D, Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, joining us today, answering your questions. If you've got questions for John, you can email him, askjohn at ramseysolutions.com. Ask John, for John Deloney, of course. From AskJohn at RamseySolutions.com. AskJohn, for John Deloney, of course.

AskJohn at RamseySolutions.com. If you'll send that email in, he'll get back to you, or we'll use your questions here on the air or on his upcoming podcast. Because as you might know, if he's a Ramsey personality, he's going to have a podcast. Doesn't have one today, but will soon. It's all brand new all right brianne is with us in kansas is it brianne is that correct it is brianne thank you sure how can i help well thanks for taking my call the um reason i'm calling today is i own three small businesses

they are all located in an 18 000000 square foot facility here in Kansas City. And to say the least, COVID has hit us painfully, painfully hard. And I can see that it affects me mentally, physically, everything. And I'm trying to, I've had to let go 50% of my staff. We're running on bones right now, just trying to keep the doors open. We got terrible news from our landlords this past week. And there's a lot of unknowns. So we just, I just need to know what should I do to help my employees through this time,

help them that I can tell they have so much fear. And I just want to see how, I know I'm affecting them. How can I help them? What should I say to them? Should I be honest with them about everything? Should I, I feel like I should, but maybe I shouldn't. I don't know. They often tell us on the airplane, when you got small kids, that you got to make sure you put your oxygen mask on first before you start taking care of them. And so you made a couple of statements here. I want to make sure that you are taking care of you in these moments.

And then I'd like to refer back to Dave, if that's okay, how I've seen as a new employee to the Ramsey family. Dave and his executive team get up every Monday morning on a call to the entire, thousand of us and gives us a real transparent yet hopeful yet honest view of what's going on. And here's the plan for today and for this week and what looks like. So I'm going to recommend to you that you've got to make a plan for every day. You've got to default to the things that keep you well and keep you whole. For me, that's making sure I get out and move and I eat right. And I'm connecting with people outside of my work that know me, that I have a relationship with, and that I'm connecting with the people inside my house. This thing will eat you alive, especially when you start having to do hard things like lay people

off. And then you've got to focus on those few things you can control, which unfortunately for a lot of us are way fewer than we thought, right? And, Dave, I'll let you lead the company. As far as the folks on your team, they can handle bad news better than they can handle no news. And I wouldn't add drama. Your job is to remove drama but tell the truth. And, you know, we've shared with our team,

even some of our internal accounting numbers. This is how much cash we have. This is how much payroll costs. And when revenue turns down, here's the first things we will do. If revenue doesn't turn back up in time, here's the second things we will do. If that revenue doesn't turn back up in time, here's the third thing we will do. And here's what's going to happen. And so in your case, what I would say is this business is affected this way. This business, you've got two, three businesses. They're probably different situations on revenue. And just look at those particular team members and go, guys, here's what's happening.

Show them the chart. You can show them, you know and and i you know i i love you guys and i want to keep you uh i wouldn't have hired you if i didn't want you here and um and and so i'm going to do everything i can to for us to all survive this together but even if we don't you're going to hear the truth from me and you're going to hear it early and you're going to hear often and i told our team four weeks ago I said, one thing you won't be is surprised. You're going to know what's happening, and we are going to make calm, wise, deliberate decisions ahead of time, and then we're going to walk right down those flowcharted decisions.

Unless something affects one of those flowcharts, that's exactly what we're going to do, what we decided in the moment before the emergency comes on. The training kicks in when the plan kicks in when the emergency comes. And so, you know, here's what's happening. Our landlord, we got bad news from them on this. We got this revenue stream here. As you know, we've already laid off this group. Here's what we're going to do next. I'm not this group. Here's what we're going to do next.

I'm not taking pay. Here's what we're going to do then. You know, you can just share with them, you know, exactly what's going on. But don't add drama to it. And don't go, well, you know, if President Trump doesn't get us back to work by May 2nd, it's all over. You know, because even though that might be playing in your brain that's the adding drama you just uh john says when he used to do a lot of crisis work when you're in crisis facts are your friends just tell people what the facts are and tell yourself what the facts are over and

over and over and over again we're sending out a newsletter every morning because our team's working from home updating them on the number of uh tests that have been done for covid the number of cases and the number of by the way the ones that had covid are all healed just as a good news for ramsey people but um uh you know and we're updating everybody on what's going on because they were scared out of their brains on some of this stuff and and um you know just take the drama out take the drama out tell people the truth even if it's bad news because if you don't tell them what's going on they're going to in their brain make it a whole lot worse than it is in the absence of data we

make up stories right and they're going to invent and then they're going to attach morality to it they're going to make you the bad person instead of just the message bearer yeah especially if there are certain personality types they they there are certain personality types that there has to be a villain there has to be a right and a wrong and if i'm right then you have to be wrong because i can't write my story otherwise and that's a that's an immature person but there are personality types that lend themselves to that more often than not. And they have to write out a narrative. For instance, we've had people that used to work here. And it's such a wonderful place to work.

If you don't work here anymore because you quit. You've got to have a villain, right? You've got to have a negative narrative. Well, you can't. It has to be negative. You can't just go, well, they're good and I'm good. You have to go, oh, they must suck because I'm not there anymore. They must not really be.

They must be a bunch of hypocrites because I'm not there anymore. And you have to make up crap and rewrite a narrative in your head instead of just going, you know what? They're not perfect. I'm not perfect. And we didn't see eye to eye and I split the place. There you go. And I think it's critical to remember that kids are this way in your house. Your employees are this way.

When you're stressed and you are tense, people feel it on you. Well, they know it. You can smell it. And so if you're not being transparent, then not only are you not helping them, but now they think you're not telling the truth, right? I mean, I even did a lesson in staff meeting on how we handle stress. And I told everybody, here's how I handle it. I get pissed off.

And here's how you handle it, some of you. You get freaked out. I get pissed off. Right. And here's how you handle it, some of you. You get freaked out. I eat gummy candy pathologically. But I mean, you know, we just said, you know, I told them, remember we were teaching, you're either going to process this fear or you're going to process it as anger. And they're very, very similar emotions. And I did a lesson on it, you know, from a leadership position to tell them. And I told them, look, if you're wondering how I'm going to react, I'm going to go ahead

and tell you. I'm a hillbilly. I'm going to be pissed off about whatever it is. That's my react, I'm going to go ahead and tell you. I'm a hillbilly. I'm going to be pissed off about whatever it is. That's my default. I'm going to start there and probably end there. But when in doubt, hit something. And that's not necessarily right, but being afraid is not necessarily right. But I went ahead and told them what to expect from their leader, their imperfect leader,

that this is how I'm going to react to these things. I'm going to try to be wise in the middle of it it but if you see me just really angry that just means i'm stressed if you see me really passionate pissed off about you know the president or the governor or whatever it's it's it has nothing to do with anything it's just how i process this stuff the first thing i do is i have to hit it in the mouth and then we figure it out from there and some people go the other way they go the fear way and neither one's right neither one's wrong it's just the way people process it i did a lesson on it helped everybody understand oh yeah that is kind of me and i see how dave does that and i don't that's why i don't

understand him because i'm not like him you know and and as an employee that was a gift because now i know now i know right i've got the information that we need and then i can go about my job yeah it's uh i don't have to i don't have to concoct some wild story about why Dave's mad and why... I don't have to. I haven't seen you mad at me, so... Well, I wasn't mad at anybody. I'm just pissed about the whole thing. That's right.

Just in general. I don't like fighting something I can't see. Oh, man. The unseen... It's driving me crazy. So, hi, Brianne. It's a really good question. Thanks for letting us talk it through with you.

And you're a better leader than you probably think you are just because you knew to ask the question. You're self-aware. Calm is contagious. Be honest. There you go. Big time. So is fear. This is the Dave Ramsey Show.

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of these low rates Clark is joining us in Wyoming. Hey, Clark, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave. Hi, Dr. G. Greetings from Wyoming. Thanks. How can we help? My wife and I are, well, I'm 70.

She's 69. We are semi-retired. We own a small business through the kids' workforce. My question, though, is before we got to know you, we were talking to buy in a last survivor life insurance policy. $50,000 value premium is $7,000 a year. Cash surrender is $80,000. My wife also has $100,000 that has a cash surrender of $40,000.

We're wondering if we should cash those in and reinvest. How's your nest egg? We had about $260 about 260 last couple months ago. I think it's down to probably 210 or 220. We still draw the wage out of the three businesses we have. We're pretty much debt-free. Our home is paid for. So if you did not have this life insurance and something happened to you,

would she be okay financially? We both have term policies for $250,000 for the next eight years. And by then your $260,000 will have doubled and your businesses will have grown and your home will be paid off. You'll be in much better shape even. So then it becomes just do we hold the whole life, life insurance as an investment? And the answer is no. You would never hold it as an investment.

You would never do it as an investment, and you would never keep it as an investment. It sucks as an investment. Right. So it's pretty simple. She's okay with the term, the $260,000 turned into $210,000 plus three businesses and a paid-for house if something happens to you without this trash. So I would drop it. We have other assets, too.

But if we were to cash these in, what would we invest them in? We don't intend on using the money. Sure. Sure. I would just add it to your nest egg and say I'm going to invest it in some mutual funds. Do you owe anything on the house at all? No. Do you have any debt anywhere?

We have about $50,000 debt on a cabin we're building up farther up in the mountains. Yeah, I'd go ahead and get that paid off, and it sounds like there's enough cash value to clean that up, and that cabin will be a more restful place without any debt on it. Right. Easy enough. I'd definitely rather have a debt-free cabin than any debt on it. Right. Easy enough. I'd definitely rather have a debt-free cabin than I would a whole life policy. That one's easy. All right, Paul is with us.

Paul's in Colorado. Hey, Paul, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave, good to speak to you. You too. What's up? We are 10 years in on a 15-year mortgage. We've got $38,000 left to pay off. And the wife, given what's going on with the economy right now and the devaluation of the 401,

would like to take out the remaining or take out the $38,000 that would pay off the house and do that now. And I, on the other hand, don't want to do that. I want to let the valuation come back up and just continue the course paying our mortgage. Yeah. Okay, so what's your household income? About $70,000. All right. And how much is in your 401k?

Right now, $179,000. Okay. thousand all right and how much is in your 401k uh right now 179 okay and it was like it was like 190 okay so let's let's understand we're not arguing about 38 000 in spending okay right we're arguing about whether it's in mutual funds or whether it's a paid off mortgage in neither case are you losing the money so the only thing we're discussing is how much you would lose by cashing out forty thousand dollars with no penalties but be paying the taxes on it uh so taxes would be around ten thousand dollars and if forty thousand is off uh if it was, probably was $50,000, okay, and you're wanting it to come back, and so we're discussing the taxes and the loss on the $40,000 because the market's down. Yes. Okay.

That's really the discussion. It's not really the $40,000. You follow me because the $40,000 is what you still own when you pay the house off. Okay, so. Yeah. Hmm. And how old are you guys again? I'll be 65.

I'll be 63 in September. Hmm. And so we're about three years out from wanting to retire. Okay, if the market was not down and this discussion was not based on emotion and you called me three months ago, I would have said, yeah, take the money out and pay it off because I would rather you be debt-free at 65 and have $150,000 rather than $179,000. Yes, and that's what I was trying to explain to the wife that we can do this, but we want to wait until the valuation goes back up and do it at that time.

Okay. But this is a little bit of coronavirus fear on her part, right? Yes, yes, correct. Okay. Well, okay. Here's another way to frame it, maybe. I'm not saying it's – she's not necessarily wrong. I'm okay if you do it now, but you're just giving up a little money when you do it,

and that's your aggravation. Right. Okay. So I would just say this. Number one, if something happens bad further that affects us because of the coronavirus, honey, I promise you that day we'll take the money out regardless of what's in there, and we'll pay off the mortgage. We're not going to lose the house because the market's not going to go to zero.

Your $179 is not going to turn into zero. Right. Okay. And so if it goes down past this X, I promise we'll take it out because then your fears are starting to be valid. Okay? Correct. But in return, I want you to say, I'll wait until it comes back up to why before we take it out.

See, what she's got in her head is a vague thing of the fear of all this stuff going on and the uncertainty. She's not looking at a Dow of 29,000 is where you want it to be. But if you say, listen, here's what the Dow is today. When the Dow gets to here, I'll take it out. And you can watch it with me every day. And if it gets below X, we'll take it out because I'm starting to be afraid like you are then. And that way she's covered and she knows this is not you just going 10 years from now,

yeah, I'm still waiting on it to go a little higher. You know, like you keep kicking the can down the street, right? Which you might have a reputation of doing. I don't know. So you need to give her an exact exit ramp. Okay, I know you've got to go to the bathroom. We we're gonna get off at this mile marker there you go this mile marker is where we're getting off hold it till then and that's okay i can make it till then if you just tell me that that's the and it's not 400 miles from now you know i mean so it's like okay we're not getting off at this

exit i don't trust that this is not a good exit i don't want to get off here and uh but but you know give me five more miles and we'll get to here and you give her an exact place and then we can hold hands together until we get to that exit ramp and that's she she needs that from you because i think you might be a little bit like me i've done that i've played that one before have you done that oh let's just keep going okay oh yeah yeah let's just keep going no no i'm saying like down we're driving down the highway right and it's well i mean just in general just like okay yeah someday when it gets bigger we'll do that and um man sharon and i have used that technique of setting an exact marker to come to agreement and it lessened and and you know

because the marriage guy told us one time he said to her it's a 10 out of 10. For you it's a 2. And you got to, you know, but when you set a marker, then it takes all the stress off of it. That's right. And then you just hold each other accountable and it is what it is. Yeah, you can walk on out and when we get to this, then we'll buy a car. We did that one time. I said, when we get to this much money, we're going to buy a car. Because she needed a car.

We were driving this horrible old, oh, God, man, it was a two-tone blue Astro van. You might be a redneck. Why did you do that to your beloved? Well, back then they were cool. That's how long ago this was. They were never cool. They were never cool. They were never cool. It's like saying a gremlin was cool.

Gremlins were never cool. The guys who painted that. Pacers were never cool. The guys who painted that. Pacers were never cool. The guys who painted that were like, I bet some suckers will buy this. And here comes Dave. The guys at Sherpa. An astro-in. No, when we get uncertain, we just have this impulse to go do something.

And maybe the greatest gift we can give one another is just to say, not right now. But I love that idea of here's a marker when we cross it, then we'll exit here and go to the bathroom. It de-escalates. I love that. It de-escalates the argument because we're sometimes not arguing about the same thing. No, that's right. That puts this hour of the Dave Ramsey Solutions wants to give you some hope. For the very first time ever, we're giving you Financial Peace University free for 14 days.

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