The Ramsey Show - App - Personal Finance Is More About Behavior Than Math

Episode Date: May 11, 2022

Dave Ramsey & Rachel Cruze discuss: Combining incomes with your boyfriend, Getting a personal loan to pay off a credit card, How to start the debt snowball. Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. We help people build wealth, do work that they love, create actual, amazing relationships. We're here to help you do all of that. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, and my daughter is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Dakota is with us to start this hour in San Antonio.

Hi, Dakota. How are you? Hi, I'm good. Thank you so much for taking my call. Sure. What's up? So I wanted to see if I could get a little bit of guidance from y'all. I live with my boyfriend, and we have a baby together,

but we do not have our finances combined. Um, I bring debt into our relationships. He does not have any debt. Um, so I'm currently working on the baby steps, um, using the snowball and, um, have been trying to knock that out, but we do have quite a few shared finances. Um, like we pay for my 50-50 for my daughter's daycare, 50-50 for rent, groceries, all that stuff. So we're constantly like Venmoing or writing each other checks or things like that to reimburse. And so it's just going to be, do you recommend continuing to keep our finances separate until I knock out the rest of our debt, of my debt, or should we go ahead and combine them to make our everyday expenses easier? So Dakota, why don't y'all

just get married? Because I have a lot of guilt about having the debt and I want to knock it out before we get married. So you're waiting for marriage to pay off your debt? Yes. Okay. I would encourage you. I would not wait. I wouldn't wait. And I would encourage people who want to get married,

they don't have to wait. I think even having a baby, you don't need to wait to have a baby until you're debt-free. That this debt, I wouldn't say. I think that's kind of a separate thing. I know, what makes you feel guilty about it? Just the fact that you guys would combine finances when you get married and you are going to take you guys backwards?

Is that it? Right, yeah. And he does have a much larger income than I do. And so I just would hate for there to be any resentment or animosity about me bringing in debt when he doesn't have any has he kind of alluded to that is that a little bit of kind of his mo or is that are you playing that tape in your head just out of yourself probably more of the latter yeah he's never eluded to any yeah hey dakota how old are you i am 26 okay um this guy's in love with you you have a baby with him you sleep with him you live with him

and you're trying to figure out how to combine incomes and combine everything but do all of that without combining the debt. Too late. That ship has sailed. Rachel's right. I'm going to put my old man arm around you and give you a hug and say, honey, best thing for that baby, best thing for this man, best thing for you is get married and then combine your incomes, combine your lives, combine everything, join it together so tight that it cannot be torn asunder, and then go live a beautiful, glorious life. Okay.

And getting out of debt's part of the adventure. Raising the child is part of the adventure. Waking up and looking at him when he starts to lose his hair is part of the adventure. Okay? All right. Awesome. Well, y'all so much for your help and then see here's the problem it's legally and relationally very difficult to financially play house when you're not married because you get into this argument over the mustard, who bought the mustard, and yet you're in the same bed. It's just, it's so inconsistent and incongruent, it's just weird and awkward. And that's just a part of the system that you're using is all.

And it's not a judgment thing. You didn't hear judgment in our voices. We just want good things for you. We love you, and we love that baby, and we want you guys to have a wonderful life and so um i i i would um take that tape out of your head and i would wad it up and throw it away that somehow you've done something wrong by bringing the debt to the table for god's sakes baby is a 10 debt is a 1 on a scale of 1 to 10 okay relationship marriage marriage is a one on a scale of one to ten. Relationship is a ten. Marriage is a ten. Debt is a small thing.

If you're both in agreement that this debt is a bad thing and we're going to clear it as fast as we can using all of our combined marital incomes and assets so that we can have a wonderful, glorious life for this baby and as a couple, then you're going to knock that debt out so fast it's silly and uh it's blocking you from having your best possible wonderful glorious life yeah it's hard to work as a team when you're legally not a team and you're having to go around all this stuff so it's just hard it's hard to do finances with your roommate it just is it's just it's it's yeah you know you can't act like you're married with your finances when you're acting like you're married with every other part of your life. It's just, it's so awkward and weird. And it's hard. And I'm not saying you're awkward and weird.

I'm just saying this is the way it works. It's very difficult. Hey, thanks for the call. Very, very good question. You know, a lot of people living together that aren't married have that exact question. We've had it over the years a lot um the other issue is is that there's all kinds of data out there in the world and this is not for dakota but this is just generally on this discussion that um they call it the poverty cycle or the poverty indicators that the there's about three or four poverty indicators that if you get if you have a baby before you're

married again not not messing with Dakota here but I'm just giving you the poverty poverty indicators uh if you um uh get married before graduate from high school or uh or start living with someone before you graduate from high school uh if um you know and we keep going on the levels of education all these different things all of these things are indicators that that you know you're 90 percent more likely i have to pull the study up i can't remember the details but you're 90 percent more likely to live before the poverty level below the poverty level if you don't do these things that are really social indicators of what's going on in your life because what happens is it's very difficult to prosper financially when you're 17 years old with a baby yeah well for sure yeah

but i think even more than that the stuff that i've seen in research within the marriage aspect of the rate of divorce is higher of those that live together yeah so for me i'm like you know there's there's a um probably a a spiritual conviction that we have with this. But they're also, after over the years of seeing people do this, like you said, just kind of playing house, there's a commitment level there in a marriage that has to be there. And it affects your outcome financially. Yes, and when it's not there, right. And that's what I'm saying.

It's like the tentacles play in. It's just like when people come in with a marriage, a money question about marriage. So my spouse won't get on the same page. The tentacles are just the money. But there's so much underneath that. And so pressing this generation, it sounds great. Oh, well, I'll see if we like each other enough to live together. The living together

is a small portion of it. It is. It's the marriage commitment that you that is the greatest weight. And that weight has been taken away from this generation is what it feels like to me. Yeah. Yeah, it's, now you sound like an old person. From this generation. I know.

I worry about this generation. I've been married for 12 years. I worry about the generation. Unbelievable. Those gen-zeers. Those little puppies. Oh, God bless them. This is The Ramsey Show.

You've got a lot on your plate. A job, your home, your marriage, and your growing family. While you're enjoying the present, you can't help but think about your future and your finances. As you explore your options, consider Christian Healthcare Ministries, or CHM, for your health care. Their generous maternity program and budget-friendly monthly programs have been a blessing to members welcoming children into their families. Visit chministries.org slash budget to see if it's right for you. Christian Healthcare Ministries is a Ramsey Trusted Provider. I'm so excited.

Orlando, we hope you're ready. We're going to be down there a week from Thursday on May the 19th for our Building Wealth live event. If you haven't gotten your seats yet, you're missing out. There's only about 3,000 seats, and we have sold almost 3 000 you can still get tickets gonna be an action-packed night george camel rachel cruz dr john deloney ken coleman and i are hosting this real event in person human beings in a room building wealth live event and dr john deloney ken coleman will be doing a free bonus session about work and relationships before the main event afterwards everybody be signing books and taking pictures and hanging out meeting you guys we're so excited to do this tickets are only 25 each orlando one

week from this coming thursday may the 19th you can bring your friends it's only 60 for a four pack that's four people for 15 bucks a head this is a deal it's going to be a four pack that's four people for 15 bucks ahead this is a deal it's going to be a lot of fun and then this fall we're going to be in phoenix in sacramento in minneapolis and in san antonio all of those have sold almost 2 000 tickets already and the event the event venues uh range from two to three thousand people so if you uh in terms of what they hold so if you want to come to any of those even in the fall i suggest you go ahead and get them done those are in september 13th november 1st 10th and 15th are is the fall tour it's going to be a lot of fun rachel las vegas the other night was on fire oh so fun so fun they were a great crowd

they they were And it was. Orlando, you're going to have to bring it to keep up with Vegas. Well, and it always shocks me, which happens at all the events. But since we just haven't done one, I feel like in years. It feels like 20 years. The amount of traveling that people do, you know, around. So lots of people from L.A. and Orange County. And I mean, all, you know, the region is right around there. the california is like it's a suburb though

it's not that far right no they do yeah yeah but anyways it was it was so fun but great people great people yeah it was it was a lot of fun we had just under 3 000 folks there just over 3 000 something like that it was a big audience laughing and uh carrying on together and it's just good to be around people that have good sense and man our audiences are just they're good people i mean they are they're great people we don't have a bunch of crazies in our audiences they're good folk and uh they just want to get better they want to do better they want to be around other people it kind of normalizes wisdom yeah you know because there's so so little wisdom in our culture today so uh, yeah, come hang out with the real people.

The crazies are all on TV. Oh, my gosh. It's nuts. All right, Zach is with us. Zach's in Atlanta. Hi, Zach. How are you? Good.

How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? It's a quick question i have uh about eighty five hundred dollars in credit cards between two credit card debts and a vehicle with a vehicle with 23 000 which is paid for through my company every month so that's kind of beside the point but no it's not my question is okay well i i got you but the the main reason i was calling was should i combine the two credit cards and get a personal loan with a lower interest rate to pay off the credit cards

okay what do you make uh 65 okay well we teach folks zach if you are new to our stuff, to be extremely intense, unbelievably focused, cut your lifestyle to nothing, scorched earth, no life until you clear these debts. Have you heard that stuff said by Ramsey people before? Oh, absolutely. Okay. That's what I've been looking to lately. Now, given that as our scenario, making $65,000, how fast are you going to pay off $8,500? It should be fast.

Well, what's fast? If I do the budgeted app like I'm working on, which the first month didn't go as planned, like I'll talk about, six months. Okay, good. And so really what we're discussing with your question then is interest rate on $8,000 for six months. 10% change for one year would be an $800 change. So a 10% change in interest rate by getting a different loan on $8,500 is a $400 swing. Follow me? Right.

Yes, sir. And $400 is nice. If you send it to me, Rachel, we'll cash the check. I'll take it. Okay. But here's my point, okay? The reason we're doing this math out is this. It's okay to do what we're doing this math out is this.

It's okay to do what you're talking about doing. The problem with it is it makes you feel like you did something. Right, but you still have the debt. Yeah, what you did was $400, and you don't have a $400 problem. You have a $31,000 problem. Right. And so, you know, and you've already ascertained. Listen, you're already ahead of the curve because you've already figured this out. I'm doing my budget.

Didn't work right the first month. I'm learning how to do this. I'm building new muscles that I didn't have before. You're on track to be winning with this, Zach. You're very impressive. But what I'm pointing out is that the math says the important thing to work on is living on nothing and paying this debt off super fast because that's $8,000 in six months. The question you asked about is $400 in six months. So if you only do the $400 change, you didn't do anything.

Right. You do the $8,000 change and you don't do the four hundred dollar change you're still out of debt right so you're the secret sauce not the interest rate because it's such a short time and it's such a short small amount of money in general as in the scope of your life and where you're going to see the momentum zach is not just in the math which is what we're doing right so the idea of taking well should i just take a personal loan to you know combine the credit cards and just have one loan with lower interest rate? All that's like a math talk.

But when you get in that change of, wow, I am literally sacrificing my lifestyle. I am saying no to things and I'm throwing money at it. That's the momentum. That's what's going to get you to win long term and to pay this off. It's not going to be the math. And you can do that. And that's the problem is I think we get so caught up in the math when we think about money.

So your question is not invalid because it's like, oh, yeah, that makes sense if we're just talking about math. But we're not talking about math. In order to completely change the way you handle money and to build wealth over the long term, it's your behavior that changes. And so by you saying this little math of $ i don't even i'm not even gonna mess with because i'm gonna focus so much on what i can do and changing you know your budget putting money away and i mean going through the baby steps that's where you're going to see a lot of progress

i sense i sense that you're making more than a minimum payment because i have been right you're going to keep the debt if you're going to keep the debt for five years, then it would be a big deal to get the personal loan. Right. But you're not. Right. So you're already convinced, but let me keep teaching our audience with your example, okay? The other thing is this. The words that we use, all of us, reveal what is going on in our heart.

And you said something very interesting that I want you to think about uh because personal finance is behavior more than it is math you said i want to get a personal loan to pay off my two credit cards well you're really not paying them off you're just moving them to a personal right so a proper way of saying it would have been hey i want to move my debt over to a different kind of debt to get a lower interest rate but i'm going to pay off my debt with extremely low lifestyle and a debt snowball and that's how i'm going to pay off the debt because you can't borrow your way out of debt and so that's a lesson for the rest of our audience because people say that all the time i'm going to pay off my debt by borrowing this no you didn't pay it off you just moved it and so again all this to say the budget i think the budget would be the first step before i'm even worried about doing the personal loan evidently yeah the budget didn't work the first

that's right yeah let's let's get going and really get some momentum on on pounding that 8500 in the mouth just beat the snot out of it right and then when you get then when you get that moving like you're saying uh if you want to do the personal loan and save 400 like i said that's that's good there's nothing wrong with 400 but if you feel like that got you out of debt then you were mathematically wrong what gets you out of debt is zach looking in the mirror and go hey bubba we're changing that's a big deal and paying off that smallest credit card first by keeping them separate gives you that momentum as well of like, okay, I can do this. It's actually working and it

keeps you fueled versus one big loan. That's true. You lose the emotional momentum of the debt snowball by moving it. Yeah, the debt snowball is where it, do you know where that is? Do you know what the debt snowball is? I've heard of it. I'll teach you the next segment. Don't worry. Okay. Stay here. You can bring me up to date on how to use it. I will. I'll teach you. You're so kind. This is The Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage.

Jacob and Dree, is it Dree? Drea. Drea, I'm sorry. Drea are with us. Where do you guys live? Nashville. Nashville. All right.

Now, I understand from Kelly that you guys have a unique approach to getting out of debt a unique situation yeah tell us tell us what your story before we ask about the debt okay um yeah I mean essentially at the time we were just a couple boyfriend and girlfriend and I had asked him very early on we were really vulnerable and open about where we stood financially um you know what our financial status was. And so it made the conversation really easy when I asked him for our future. Should we get married? Things like that.

What do you want to see from that? And I had asked him if he had heard of you. Uh-oh. I was familiar. I knew your name, baby steps, but that was about it. Never practiced any of it. Yeah. And I had actually started the journey back in 2019 because my friends, Dan and Michelle,

had actually introduced me to you as well as the Baby Steps and subsequently gifted me Financial Peace University. Oh, wow. Yeah. So you were all in. I was so all in. Okay. So how much debt did you start with?

Well, at that time, because I ended up relapsing. Oh, okay. I ended up relapsing. So at that point, I think it was like 18,000. I can't quite remember. But at that point, it was that. I relapsed. And so once we got together and started talking more about it, I, you know, asked him.

Wait a minute. You drove right by. You flunked Financial Peace University. i passed that i passed that hold on and but it's it's a class you can't flunk you just get to do it again okay so how much were you how much debt were you in at that point i was in 18 000 got up to the point where i all i had left was my student loan now however that was right when covet hit and when the forbearance so when you all are having this discussion you had 18 000 not at that point this is before we got together okay she's here from the beginning

i'm telling you we're all over the place thank you okay i'm just i'll catch up in a minute you gotta help me okay now so the at the point you're having this discussion and we're getting real you said you had how much debt well at the point that we got together i had twenty four thousand dollars that's what i'm after okay yes so you start this portion of the journey with 24 right the portion of the journey where you all are dating and it's going to lead towards marriage correct okay yeah and uh what about you jacob at this point in the relationship where you're leading how much debt did you have 18 000 okay all right and so now we have the discussion and we start these individual tracks right you're like i gotta know what these baby steps are because this girl's

bugging me about it yeah kind of it was a very fluid conversation he was really open to the idea because again i'd kind of dave i've kind of gone through it before um so you know i was already familiar and already knew what that entailed and so when i was telling him about it he was all on board it made sense it was like oh this yeah this is way to get out of this let's do it right and so i started asking him like you know would you want to just do this like accountability bites would you want to do this alongside me because one of the things that we knew from the get-go was that we did not want to introduce the number one cause of divorce into our marriage when that time came and so we had to make sure we were on the same page with that right and so we and we

were we were very wise there was never any kind of like hiccup or any kind of you know head-butting with that so i'm the nerd of the relationship and so and so i started to kind of head-butting with that. So I'm the nerd of the relationship. Free spirit. And so I started to kind of buckle down with like, okay, if you kept with your journey and I kept with mine, here's where we could be. And at that point, we would have been debt-free by our anniversary, which is in June next month.

So we're like, okay, six months. Your dating anniversary. Yes. Right. Okay. Yeah. So we were like, okay, like your dating anniversary yes right okay so yeah so we were like okay like that would be cool like what a way to celebrate um but i'm psychotic and so i was like well wait a minute um i was like you know we we have a friend's wedding that was coming up in march at that point and i was like what if we did it by the wedding and at that point

it was going to be 100 days so we were cutting it in half his eyes he gave that one yeah i was like we just cut this in half and uh and so he was a little bit weary about it and so i again kind of rewrote it down it's like look if we pick up a couple side hustles and we really get at it we can do this like i i really feel confident that we can do this and so once i want to get married i want i'm ready i did of course no i mean of course because i mean who wouldn't but but it was more of just like we can get out of this because again i had dragged it out i had relapsed he's been through his own situation which you know he may share and so once i presented

him with the plan of like look we can get this done in 100 days it was game on yeah we just worked the plan so you did the whole thing in 100 days we did the whole thing in 71 days oh my god yeah y'all are psychotic i love you legitimately i love it okay so what did that what are those 71 days what did that look like sleepless yeah what yeah legitimately about legitimately sleepless we so what side hassles So 71 days. What did that look like? Sleepless. Legitimately. Legitimately sleepless. What side hustles did you do? Because we both did essentially the same things to get there, which is why we were able to start and end at the exact same time. So essentially what the days kind of looked like, we would get up around 2.30 or so in

the morning and go side hustle until 8 a.m. when our full-time job started. We'd do our full-time jobs from 8 until 5 and then we would side hustle again until about 11 p.m. at night. And then just repeat. Wash, rinse, repeat for 71 days. What was the best paying side hustle you did? Amazon. Amazon packages.

They've delivered to your house. Who knows? You probably did. A higher probability you delivered to Rachel's house. I'm going to say, yeah. I get a package almost every day. Push the button, Rachel you delivered to Rachel. I'm going to say, yeah, I get a package over every day. Push the button, Rachel. Push the button. I know.

I love Amazon. So yeah, that was probably the most, especially because we did it during the holidays. Way to go, you guys. Thank you. Okay, so now you're officially married or engaged? We're engaged. We're getting married on our anniversary next month. Okay, well that'll help everybody know what the anniversary is going forward okay yeah

super simple can't screw it up if it's one day this is awesome way to go you guys that's amazing man i'm so proud of you thank you so much you were smart and that wise and that you weren't married you did not combine your finances instead you just encourage each other but you were so in sync it was almost as if combined because you were game on which was kind of awesome because again we never almost a competition a little bit it literally was because it was one morning i decided i was going to sleep in a little bit that day i was going to sleep until 4 30 instead of getting up at three slacker and that's essentially what happened slacker she goes i'm going out to deliver it calls me she goes i'm going out to deliver i

go all right i guess I am too. Here we go. Calling out your manhood, man. Exactly. You're sleeping in, you slacker. Yeah. You know, but it's been such a cool thing too because, you know, now we're each on baby step three and what we've realized and learned is that we will have our completed emergency

fund by the time we're married. So we're just starting our marriage off on like the best foot financially. You guys are fun. Thank you. Y'all are going to have a blast. You're you're gonna be so wealthy and you're gonna have so much fun doing it oh we know yeah i mean we listening to your show helps us realize where we're gonna be because listening to other people's debt-free screams and just the success that they've had has really helped us kind of visualize it and go after it okay so let me ask this real quick i don't want to veer off from the from the debt-free but real quick how was planning a wedding with cash because we get that call a lot

yeah we uh we're cash filling the entire thing and we actually run it out because we're having a very intimate wedding um out in wine country california because that's from from california so um and so that's just kind of my dream and we rented out the whole inn and paid for because we're having everyone stay with us and so we paid for half of their rooms that way they don't have to worry about so we're cash filling everything on top of our emergency it makes it easy that's amazing y'all that's great destination wedding because people say i can't pay for a wedding if i don't have it but you guys are literally cash flowing yeah and you know we talk about a lot we talk about a lot how much

our mindset has just shifted since starting this you know and, and accomplishing this, like, together. But, you know, because there is a sense of togetherness when we have the same shared goal. Y'all are fun. This is great. Thank you. We got a copy of Baby Steps Millionaires for you. It's us. Because that's the next chapter in your story.

We also got a gift card for you to Ramsey Plus, which is Financial Peace University, every dollar for a year. That's going to be a great wedding gift. Or you can give it away to a friend, a bridesmaid if you want. Thank you so much. Yeah, that kind of thing. Very cool stuff. And a copy of Total Money Makeover.

I know you're going to give that away. And that's why we give it to you so you can pay it forward. Because I've got my copies and he started it, so we're on it. You guys are wonderful. So fun. Thank you. Thank you for sharing your story. You give inspiration to all the singles out there that are trying to figure out how to

navigate this whole process. Jacob Andrea in Nashville did it as two singles, now getting married. Wonderful. 24 and 18,000 paid off in 71 days. All they did was work. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one.

I'm debt-free! Yeah! They are fabulous. Aren't they fun? So fun. They just had a handshake. You missed it. They did that, that.

They're funny. It's great. Congratulations. This is The Ramsey Show. We'll be right back. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Carlos is in Houston. Hey, Carlos, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi, how you doing?

Better than we deserve, sir. How can we help? All right, well, I have a couple questions, but i just kind of want to keep it short um i've been watching your shows and i actually started reading your books um not too long ago so i've been kind of uh diving into watching all your shows pretty consistently lately um even through lunches like right now but um i have a little bit of debt, well, a lot of debt that I have to try to take care of. And it all kind of started, long story short, about three years ago during COVID, right before COVID. I purchased my house.

I got a new car. And we had gotten kind of, I know it sounds kind of dumb, but based off all your videos, we kind of fell into a timeshare where it didn't really seem like it was until a month later when we tried to get out, and it was impossible since then. So I've kind of been stuck in that for, you know, coming up to two, three years now. We went through so much trouble. I mean, with a lot of details left out, we went through lots of headaches and stress trying to get out of it. And I actually got out of the job that I was currently in that was kind of getting damaged by COVID. So now I'm at a job where I'm consistent. But I just really want your advice on how to get out of this debt

work to kind of get started. I kind of have an idea, but I did refinance that timeshare into a personal loan almost immediately after we did it to save on interest, to save on payments. I just didn't want to be paying too much, but now I'm still stuck with that debt that after years of contacting them and calling and just getting misled, it doesn't seem like I'm going to get out of it. So I'm really wanting to see how I can get rid of all this debt and what's the best scenario as best as I can. So how much debt do you have, Carlos? All right, so not counting the mortgage,

I have about $72,000 in vehicles between me and my wife, $20,000 in loans, and $10, loans and 10 000 in credit card okay what's your household income uh 75 000 okay you gotta sell some cars behind yeah like all of them yes sir and that's kind of ironic just listening to your show today even it kind of pinpointed different questions throughout the call-ins and now coming to my situation that's kind of what i've been thinking about a lot like i've kind of figured if i call mr ramsey you know he's gonna he's gonna tell me that's the first thing he's gonna tell me so it's just something that i kind of wanted some help on. Yeah, so here's the thing. 75% of your debt is car debt.

We can get rid of three-quarters of your problem selling two used cars that you can't afford. The problem is you love them, and they're beautiful, wonderful cars. Yes, sir. Yeah, what are they? Yes, sir. What kind of cars are they? A 4Runner it's a four-runner and a tacoma you can get great money from that though carlos they the great news is they're probably going to sell for more than you owe that's actually kind of what i was going to bring up is i went to a dealer not too long ago seeing

the stress of everything that happened throughout the years and they actually offered for my truck uh 46,000 and it's been kind of haunting me in my head even though as much as I feel like I can't find this truck again I kind of wanted to rely on your advice and I figured I could just get rid of it I mean I even thought you know just to simply sell that truck for what they want to get something that's $20,000 less, I could probably put all that into the personal loan, pay that off, and What do you owe on that car? $40,000. Okay, well you can't

get something $20,000 less, you can get something $40,000 less. We're getting out of debt, not into debt. So you would be, your advice would be to remove both of them, not just one. Yeah. Because you kind of wanted to keep both of them.

Yeah, I'd get rid of all of them. Listen, if you own things with wheels and motors that equal more than half your annual income, you've got too much invested in things that are going down in value. The only time cars have gone up in value in the history of the freaking world is in the last five months prior to that they've gone down in value every year and they will again as soon as the supply catches up with the demand and the new cars are starting to hit the lots again so it's just a matter of time this is the best time in the world to get out of a dadgum used car mess and son you got to use car mess you got to get out of these things and so carlos too you know it's it's buying a crappy five thousand dollar car somewhere yep and you

both drive that but for a short period of time carlos that's what when you said oh but i don't know if i can get this kind of truck again you can i promise tacomas will be made and you may it may take you three four years to get it but you can get another car, another great car that you love again. But right now, it's not worth it. It's not worth it. The stress and the pain that these have caused you guys already, it's not worth it. So getting rid of that. I think it's fun to illustrate this.

So you're right. He will get something again. So, Carlos, when I went through this this myself it was a long time ago but i was down to one car and a friend loaned me a 1978 cadillac with 478 000 actual miles on it and the predominant color on the thing was bondo it was a piece of crap it was a car that was embarrassing anywhere in town even in the worst neighborhoods in town They laughed at you in every stoplight driving this car. I drove that car for three months, and I saved up $1,000 and got a considerably better car. This morning, I drove in a classic 1960 Corvette that I bought

that is one of several automobiles that I own. If you will drive like no one else, later you can drive anything you want to drive sir so I'm not bragging I'm just saying that what I've been doing this a long time and I when I was driving that piece of crap car I thought the world was coming to an end and I kind of thought about that car this morning with the top down on that Corvette driving to work I thought you know if you live like no one else later you can live and drive like no one else. This stuff we teach works. Over the time.

And that came from after being in a nice car that you were in. I was driving a Jaguar. I don't know why. I don't know why. Your daughter's heart just kind of giggles that a Jaguar was like the thing. It wasn't a Mercedes, but a Jaguar. I don't know why. Mercedes, a lot of people had. Nobody had a Jaguar oh is that what it was it was the unique Jaguars were exotic okay okay

so the Jaguar 1981 just saying it what a redneck says Jaguar I mean it's like a thing you know these are words that don't roll off of a off of a redneck slips very what year was it it was the first one was a um yeah an 80 okay so 1980 you are you're not carlos cars i'm not i'm not pinning you like dave but you're driving the car you want it like he wants this tacoma like you are in the thing you want and then the pain to go from what you want i sold that to keep it from to go into bondo car i was going broke painful so carlos here i went from a super nice car yep a nicer car in those days than you've got today yes into a piece of absolute trash so that wasn't even mine it was loaned to me yes so carlos prepare for the pain driving the

crappy car for a little bit but it's worth it for a short period of time to get on the other side to get what you want i did that for three months. That's right. But telling the story right now, my stomach kind of hurts still. It was painful. It was awful. I always say I did that for 10 years, one three-month period, because that's how it felt like.

It felt like it was forever. Because, I mean, when everybody laughs at you at every stoplight, there's a lot of shame involved. I just wonder who laughs at people in cars. You haven't seen this car. You would laugh at this car if you saw it at a stoplight. I mean, it's just, I mean, and you're a sweet person, but it's like you look at that and you go, this poor guy. I mean, he must be homeless.

It looks awful. How does he drive that car? It's horrible. And the vinyl roof was torn loose across the top, so when you drove it, it filled up with air. So it looked like a parachute. Now, that was the kind of car we grew up in, though, with you guys. It looked like a parachute. What was the brown car y'all had when we were kids?

That was a Mark 7. That was later on. Man, I remember driving into the school drop-off line, and that thing, it would bubble up, and you had to push it up. No, that was the headliner did, not the top top. This is on top would fill up with air, like you had a parachute on top of your car. Oh, no. It was so bad. No, that was the headliner in that the top top this is on top would fill up with air like you had a parachute on top of your car it was so bad no that was the headliner in that old brown one i'd forgotten that and it would like rest on our heads and we'd be like yeah for about a week and then i fixed it but yeah i forgot about that that did happen i remember that that's the car i delivered books out of the trunk the first financial piece the brown car had a little hump on the trunk it was a 1985 mark 7

so carlos look your future is look. Your future is bright. Your car future is bright, Carlos. You can do this. You can do this. All this to say that cars are temporary. Cars are temporary. They're not forever. This is The Ramsey Show.

Hey, it's Rachel Cruz, co-host on The Ramsey Show. If you want to do your debt-free scream live on the show, visit ramsaysolutions.com slash debt-free scream. We'd love for you to come to Nashville and tell Dave your story. That's ramsaysolutions.com slash debt-free scream.