The Ramsey Show - App - Personal Finance Means Balancing Intensity With Intentionality

Episode Date: November 4, 2024

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, get out of debt, do work that they love, and have actual amazing relationships. I'm John Deloney, joined by my good friend Jade Warshaw on the night before the election. Oh, I'm going to have popcorn. I'm going to have drinks. I'm treating it like it's a whole event. I'm going to the woods, and we are turning off the internet. I'm going to put my hands and feet in things that are real, like dirt and leaves.

I mean, here's why I'm treating it like entertainment, because regardless of what happens, I'm going on with life. And I'm going to do the things that I know to do, and I'm going to love my family, and I'm going to go to work. Jade, I don't think you've been spending enough time in the news, because depending on what happens, America is either going to make it or it's over. That's what they tell us. It's over.

So, alas. Now I'm with you. Yeah, I'll throw some popcorn to you out in the woods so you know the way back. Hey, we'll need that. Taking your calls live, 888-825-5225, 888-825-5225.

Let's roll out to Indianapolis, Indiana, and talk to Chrisris what up chris hey ramsey family how are you we're good what's up man hey um i'm uh i'm good i'm i'm uh fortunate to be where i'm at and i'm just kind of struggling with step seven a little bit where i feel like i've been able to pay off my house i'm 41 years old, and I'm at a place where I can start doing some good stuff for me and for everybody around me. I'm struggling with that, and I don't exactly know how to do that, where I just keep hiding my money away, and it's going into the stock market, and I don't know how to compartmentalize that.

In counseling, we call this the tyranny of accomplishing all your dreams. Because here's what you probably found out. You cross this finish line and you don't owe anybody any money, right? Right. I'm debt free. You cross this finish line and you are quote unquote a millionaire, right? On that? Yeah. Close enough?

I'm getting old. And now, every time you walk by the mirror you're still you fair yeah yeah we're uh over expecting and underachieving well it's not even it's not even over expecting or underachieving you're doing both you've you've achieved you've expected and you've achieved it's that you thought this was going to feel different, didn't you? You thought somehow it would fix you from the inside out. Right. So what is it about Chris's life that you've set up that you don't love? I'm a little bit of a hermit,

and I just feel like I don't know exactly how to be good to myself or other people at this point, where I'm able to have a little bit of free income to do do some good and I'm like well where where does that go that's just a big question mark for me money having excess money absolutely sucks if you have no one to share it with well I was going to ask what was the purpose for you when you I mean you're on baby step seven that's no easy accomplishment what led you to do all of that in the first place? It's just kind of ingrained in me. My parents were really good about coaching me,

and it was just ingrained in me to save every little bit that I could and to work hard. So it was just you following directions. There wasn't really a deeper meaning for you. I think so. I'm like, I'm going to have a midlife crisis. How old are you? I'm 41. You're 21? I'm 41. 41. Sorry. Jesus. 21. You're going to change the game on me. Are you married? No. No. Do you want to be? Someday. Okay. So what does fun look like,

man? What does joy look like? What does giving look like for you these days? It's like being able to loosen the belt a little bit, and I don't feel like I'm allowed. I've been through so much of that where I'm just like, keep it tight. Whose voice is that, Chris? Keep my head down. Probably my own.

Most of us have voices that are in our heads that we don't challenge and it's important to everyone someone else to stop and say wait a minute i'm having some gummy bears who's who's saying i'm a piece of crap right am i making a healthy choice no but am i a terrible like where does that voice coming from whose voice is that chris it says there's always something bad around the next corner who's saying that is it the news is it your mom is it politicians is it an old coach of yours somebody has ingrained and is continuing to sit on your shoulder and pump information into your head that says if you spend this money do you know what's going to happen next do you know do you know what's going to happen next? Do you know, do you know, do you know, do you know what's going to happen next? Whose voices? I don't even know.

I'd spend some time with that because John is teaching right now. I would really sit down and spend some time with that because he's not wrong. Here's what most people who have a scarcity mindset, and this is going to sound ridiculous to the rest of the world, and I don't care. Chris, you want a path out of this for real? Are you being serious about your question? Yeah. All right. You're going to have to put a budget line in money I will spend on myself, money I will take myself out to eat with, and most importantly, money I will invest in doing stuff with other people. Yeah.

Now, I'm a fellow prepper. I'm a fellow scarcity-minded guy. I grew up, money was scarce. It was tough to come by. It was a lot of tension in my house. That is in my nervous system. So one of the rules I have when I buy a concert ticket, I could go to concerts by myself all day long, and I know it's not good for me, and it's not fun,

but I do it anyway. So now when I buy a concert ticket, I buy two or I buy four. A, because I've been blessed and I want friends to go with me and if they can't afford it, who cares? I want to take a group of guys. I want to go have a blast. See what I'm saying? So you have to put that in your budget and you have to hold yourself accountable the same way you held yourself accountable to getting out of debt. It's the same level of discipline and the same awkwardness. Because that's a big part of it is that it all feels kind of awkward at this point where I'm like, well, now what? Nothing good you're going to accomplish isn't awkward at first.

You should go back and listen to the very first time I answered a call on this show. It like redefines awkward, homie. It was so bad. True for all of us, by the way. James sent an email and was like, fire him now. Fire him now. He still sends that email every week. Yeah, he still sends that email a lot.

Do you have a couple of guys in Indianapolis you can start meeting with once a week? Monthly. Monthly? Yeah, I'll work on that weekly. Yeah, I like that. That's my challenge to you. My challenge to you is to find a group of guys that you can start doing life with. And by the way, most romantic relationships come from one of two places.

You run into somebody at work or you run into somebody that your buddy says, hey, you need to meet my friend so-and-so or my friend's friend so-and-so. A lot of it comes on the internets too. Don't do that. Meet people in real life. Hang out with your buddies. Will you make that commitment? Yes. Jade, what am I missing here?

I don't think you're missing anything. I think the key here is money is supposed to be relational. And when you X that part out of it, it kind of is like, why did I do all this? What was it all for? Yes. And so I think that's the part that's missing. Most of us have some sort of relational connection to our money and why we spend the way we spend and why we develop the habits that we develop. And it was kind of interesting because when you were talking about it, it really just sounded like someone told me to do this. So I just went out and did it. And you never found your personal and relational connection to what it is and why you're doing it. But John just laid out a beautiful

plan for you. And I love that. Here's what, here's what stinks about my life. Statistically speaking, maybe I got 45 years left maybe oh gosh maybe this is getting dark but listen I got about 45 years left and money's gonna allow

me to stay alive and to be super generous and to have some great memories that's right that's right and after that I'll be gone that's right

and so what are we actually gonna do with this stuff we're gonna serve each other we're gonna take care of our neighbors that's the whole point and we're gonna have a lot of laughs yeah that's why it says

where your money is your heart is also. It's a relational component. This is The Ramsey Show. We'll be right back. Rachel, do you ever get these sketchy text messages that are like, hey, you need to update your address and verify so we can get you the package you didn't order? Yes, I have, George.

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your calls live. Guess what? Christmas will be here before you know it. Yeah. And that means Ramsey has some epic Christmas deals happening right now. If you're looking for something to bring your family closer together this season, we've got you covered. Some of our most popular questions for humans decks are now just 12 bucks. These are good for sitting around at the holiday season, putting your screens down and not just staring off into space or talking about politics or whatever.

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These deals are a great way to stay on budget while giving gifts that can make a real difference. Go to ramsaysolutions.com. If you're listening on YouTube or the podcast, you can click the link in the description. Check them out. Let's go out to Chitown and talk to Matt. What up, Matt? How we doing, man? Hi. It's an honor to talk to you,

Jaden John. It's an honor to talk to you, man. What's up? Thanks to y'all for teaching. We're wrapping up Baby Step 3, getting ready for 4, 5, 6. Yay, yay. Yeah. Sorry. Get off a 192K debt. We have $410,000 on our mortgage.

Nice. Our household income is $300,000, $200,000 of which is from my job and $100,000 of which is from my wife's. Wait, slow down. Don't just blow by that. I know. That's lots of dollars. What do you do for a living?

I'm a software engineer and my wife is an amazing nurse. Wow. You're debt free. Don't just blow by that. I know. That's lots of dollars. What do you do for a living? I'm a software engineer and my wife is an amazing nurse. Wow. You're debt free. $192,000 you paid off. How long did that take? We started in March of this year. $128,000 was an RV that we learned we didn't need.

Okay. Okay. Wow. Wow. Congratulations. I'm happy for you. This is good. Thank you so much.

Okay. So as we get ready to turn retirement back on, we want to know where the backdoor Roth falls into this. We've heard it's matched Roth traditional. We've also heard to match out traditionals in 456. So it falls in the same category. You're right. Match beats Roth beats traditional. So if you have a match with your traditional 401k, you would start there. If you had a Roth 401k, you could start there. Which one is yours? We both have a match. We just weren't sure if the backdoor fell into the same order because of the taxes that we'd have to pay to open the post-tax and convert. So it'd be slightly over the 15%. So just double checking that it was still

matched back to a Roth and then traditional. I would still do it that way. I do do it that way. Let me just put it like that. Excellent. Does that answer your question? It sure does. Man, congratulations. Ding, ding. Yeah. Thank you all for that. You bet. Thanks for the call. Hey, listen, we talk a lot on a podcast or like on the YouTubes. You're the one actually grinding this out on a day-to-day basis, making a budget, looking at your spouse and y'all saying yes and no, and we're in or we're not. You're the one making this thing work. I'm proud of you, dude.

Hey, while I have you, can I ask you a quick question? You bet. This is totally unrelated to anything. Thumbs up or thumbs down on AI. Are we doomed or are we going to be all right? You're a software engineer, so you're the smartest guy I know on this topic. Oh, man. I think we're going to be okay.

I have no worries after finding the Ramsey plan, though. So either way, I'm going to be okay. So if they take your job and you find yourself in an Illinois cornfield, you're going to be okay? That's going to be A-okay. Dude, listen to that guy. See, James, we're going to be all right. It's all going to work out for us in the end.

All right, let's go out to New Orleans, Louisiana, and talk to Zachary. What's up, Zachary? Hey, what's going on, guys? Thank you for taking my call. You got it, dude. What's up? Just got a quick question about paying off my mortgage. I'm on Baby Steps 4 steps four five and six right now um and i'm

currently putting uh an extra five hundred dollars a month towards the mortgage my wife and i bought it a house back in march of this year we put 15 down on it and been putting 500 down every month uh since we started making payments i'm just curious if I should be doing more. It depends on if you want to. Listen, that $500 that you're doing extra every month is just busting your amortization schedule in the face like Mike Tyson. You're going to be done with this before you know it. And so at the end of the day, this is about you being intentional with your wife,

you guys sitting down and saying, how much do we want to do? You're at the point where you should enjoy some of the fruit of your labor a little bit. And I can't tell you what that number is, but you can sit down with your wife and decide. I like that you already have a regular kind of rhythm of how often that you pay. And at this point, it's about margin. How much margin do you want to put towards this? And how much do you want to put towards living and enjoying your life? Well, I guess that's the problem that I'm having is finding that line between how much do I want to enjoy what we've accomplished versus how much, you know, how quickly do we want to pay down the house?

OK, then let me tell you a story, because the best way to think of this is just in context of your life. So for my husband, Sam and I, it took us seven and a half to 10 years to do the first three baby steps. Okay. And those are the most intense baby steps. So by the time we got to baby step six, we were like, yo, we've already spent a decade going hard in the paint. So we do less like for us, that line is a lot less. It's like we're going to enjoy our life a little bit more. We're still being intentional over here, but we're not sweating to do this. So I like to ask people, listen, how long did it take you to do the first three baby steps? Because if it didn't take you long, if you had a windfall or you sold something, fine. Yeah. If you want to go a little bit more intensely now, that's fine. But if you've already spent years with your head down, there is a part of that,

that I want you to take a breather and enjoy life. Does that make sense? Yeah, it does. Cause it took me probably about three to four years cause I was starting a new career when I started the process. And so it just, over time, as I started to make more and more money, um money through promotions and stuff, it took a while because I didn't have much margin to begin with. And so I guess now it's like a cash flow. We cash flowed the wedding and the honeymoon, all of that. So I guess now it's finding that, you know,

that happy middle ground of still being intentional enough, but enjoying everything we've accomplished. Yeah, so let's keep the $500 going. After that, what would you say your margin is for fun money? Like after you've done all the things that make you a financially responsible adult. So it ranges. I'm actually a lineman with a local power company. Nice.

And so it just depends on the overtime. Some months it could be after everything's said and done, we've got $1,000 to $1,500. Sometimes it could be more. Okay, good. I think as long as you guys are prioritizing your values as a family at this point, if you guys value getting away, just you and your wife once a quarter, and you're doing that, if you value taking a nice family vacation every year, and you're doing that, I think as long as you're doing the things that you value as fun things, family things, memorable things, the things that make you feel like what I'm doing, the time I'm spending on

my work is worth it, right? Because you want to feel like I'm working for something and now it's worth it. As long as you're doing those things, if you have money above and beyond that, yeah, put it on the mortgage. Okay. Above and beyond the 500 is what I'm saying. Yeah, good. Jay, let me say this.

And Zach, this is to you too, so everybody listening, but those seasons for me have ebb and flowed. Yeah. There's been seasons when I need to take a break, right? Yes, yes flowed yeah there's been seasons when i need to take a break right yes yes and then there's been seasons when i i wake up and i'm like i can't know anything and i i re-get insane again yes and for me it's the same as um yesterday i was feeling extra stressy about the election stuff and all that i was in kroger uh-huh and i literally made this choice.

I am going to feel bad tonight and I'm going to buy a bunch of junk food right now. Yeah. And so my rule of thumb is I don't ever want to fall off the wagon, but occasionally

I'll park the wagon, climb down and roll around in the mud and then I'll climb back in. Right? I think we need that as human beings. I think the key here

is intentional. Yeah. Like you and Sam, like a decade, we are intentionally going to slow this thing down and we're going to live our lives now. And on the other side, for me,

I'm going to intentionally dump gas on this thing because I am losing sleep over it. I want it gone. But I think intentionality is that magic word. You're exactly right. I think you're talking to everybody. That's such a relatable thing. There's that moment where that Terminator 2 red light turns on in my brain,

and I'm like, we're dropping all the extra money on the mortgage. And then there's times where I'm like, I need new recliners. I'm not playing this game right now. Mama needs to live. So that is a very real thing when you're in baby steps four, five, and six. It's okay. It doesn't have to be balls to the wall. You can chill out a little bit.

A little bit. This is The Ramsey Show. We'll be right back. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm John Deloney, joined by Jade Warshaw, taking your calls on money and life and relationships and work. All of it. 888-825-5225. Let's go out to Dayton, Ohio

and talk to Kane. What's up, Kane? Hey, how's it going? Doing alright, man. How about you? Pretty good. I got proposed a business offer to take over a business from an older gentleman who has no kids and wants to retire.

I wouldn't have enough to put it all down, but I was just wondering what some flaws would be of that. Okay. Were you working in the business before? How did you come across this offer? I actually reached out to do some private work through Facebook. The guy also has some rentals and he needed some employees. And yes, I have got my EPA certifications for refrigeration, and I was a plumber for three years for a construction company. So what's the business? It's an HVAC and plumbing business. Kind of a smaller town, but there's three of them

collected together, and there's quite a bit of work for that company. Okay. Okay. How's it doing? I mean, have you looked at the numbers and is it profitable? And if so, how well are they doing? No, that's, that's kind of what I was. Another thing I wanted to get into, I hadn't went across that bridge completely. I'm going to shadow him tomorrow and see how it's going. I just, if it is profitable, I, I did all this research. Maybe you can tell me if I researched it right, but roughly two to three times the business yearly profits is usually what a business like that would go for.

Okay. Being a smaller business. Yeah, you're right about that. It's a net present value is what they call it. Okay. What I would not do is go down to a local bank and get a loan and buy this guy out, or I wouldn't go call the SBA and take out an SBA loan and try to buy this guy out or i wouldn't go call the sba and

take out sba loan no negative yeah this guy um said that the guy that he originally started from they did it as a private deal but i think he said 20 grand down and skim the profits off to him yeah as payment until uh the business was paid. And then it was essentially his. That's not a bad idea. If you just say, hey, I want to receive a salary from the business, but you're paying all the profits back to the seller until he receives the full amount, you could structure something like that.

Because that way you're not in debt to him, and you will have made a salary for your work over X number of years. And let's say you have to walk away or the economy implodes or whatever happens, you won't be stuck with a worthless business. And yet the bank is still calling the note on your loan. Okay. Do you get what I'm saying? This is also better for the seller because this is better for the seller because anybody who's going to come in with maybe cash or credit or some sort of investor is probably going to lowball them because they have debt on it as opposed to you who's saying, hey, I value the business that you're in. Let's work together. Keep the valuation that you have. Does that make sense? Yeah, that makes perfect sense. And I just

kind of wanted to make sure that I didn't go down the wrong rabbit hole of looking into this. I'm going to make up a completely completely i'm going to completely fabricate numbers here okay so don't use my math just kind of get the spirit of what i'm saying let's say after all expenses were paid this business pay uh is sitting on 350 000 cash end of every year you've already done your depreciating assets you You're, you put money aside. You've got all that stuff taken care of. You paid all your bills and you decide I'm going to take them a hundred K a year as a salary, as the owner, as the president of this company, I'm going to pay him. And let's say we decided on a million dollar sale price. I'm going to give him $250,000 over four years. And at the four this will have this will be signed over to me.

I'll own the whole thing. Okay. That's different than going to a bank and saying I need a million dollar loan. 100%. And I'm going to write him a million dollar check and then I'm going to hope that I make that back over the next four years. Okay and as well as hope the market doesn't crash in that particular business. Let's say, here's the worst case scenario for you and for him. Worst case scenario is the market crashes in two years. Nobody wants a plumber anymore. Which by the way, if we're in that world, I don't want to be in that world, right? I think we're always getting plumbers,

right? But let's pretend that happens. And that happens in two years. You will have made $100,000 a year as the president or CEO, whatever you want to call yourself, of this company. He will have made $250,000 a year. So he would have received $500,000. Okay. And that's under the made-up numbers I'm just using. Then it all falls apart it all goes away

and you you come to him and you say hey i'm tearing this contract up i'm walking away and he says i'm going to sue you but he still has a half a million dollars that he has earned over two years you have been paid for your wages and there's not a bank saying hey i want my money back right do you get the difference and now he may look at you and say go jump in a lake i'm not doing this we're going to structure a dollar amount and you're going to owe me this dollar amount jade and i would just tell you four years five years six years who knows what the world's going to look like that's another presidential election away let me put it that way Who knows what the world's going to look like. So I would not put myself on the hook like that downstream. Right. Right. And that kind of

really solidifies my answer. I was leaning towards it, but I just, you know, I am doing the baby steps. I haven't particularly went through it, but I do have enough for six months wages and I am investing 11% into retirement. What is the amount of the business? What is he selling it for? Like I said, I hadn't quite gotten into that. Maybe I should have had that information before I called you guys, but I'm going to job shadow him tomorrow and kind of after the day, you know, make sure that he is really a profitable business. I wouldn't, not after the day. I would do this for a little while. Yeah. How old are you, Cain? I'm 22.

Okay. I'm going to say something and not at you. I'm going to say it with you. Okay. Okay. You're wandering into what I'd call adult land, big boy, big girl land. Okay. Okay. And that's when you say things like, I need to see the last four years of your books, the last five years of your books. I need to see all say things like, I need to see the last four years of your books, the last five years of your books. I need to see all the outstanding debts. I need to see any notes you have called.

And I'm going to have an accountant look over it all. And can I, I'm rolling the canoe back for a minute. Everything that John said and everything that I've said about structuring this deal is accurate. I don't like this for you. I'm just going to come out and say that because I want to go on record as saying, for you at your age, I'd like you to get your feet wet starting your own business first before you just up and take on something that...

There's so many learning curves, I think, in business. And I would love for you to learn those with lower stakes before you come in and learn them with high stakes where there's really a lot of money on the line and there's um a time frame yeah and there's a time frame where you're having to kind of yeah like if this is the salary that i'm paying back i'm getting my salary i'm paying him back there is going to be a term to that and you are going to have to make good on that depending on how you structure it. So Mama J doesn't like this for you yet. I'm just going to say that.

So let me ask you, what's the difference going to be between you running out and getting your own business? The clientele market is pretty stiff. The reason why they're loyal to him, so to speak, is because he takes service calls. So if the furnace goes down at midnight, he will be there at midnight. And he's a one-man show. So that's kind of how this business proposition came about. But the thing about it is, here's the thing.

You can be amazing at your job. You can know HVAC very well. You can be good with customers. It doesn't mean you're good at running a business. And that's the part that I want you to learn on your own first. Are you an organized person? Are you good with operations? Are you good with logistics? Are you good with handling all of those ins and out payroll? Are you good with that stuff? Because if it's a one-man show, it is requiring you to wear all those hats. And the truth is no one gets it all right the first time. Like there's quite a learning curve there. And I, like I said before, I love for you to learn that with lower stakes.

And, and, and dude, I, I'm going to re, um, recant on my support too. Here's why this is a, you just said this is a one-man shop? His wife actually writes down the payroll and they take it to an accountant. But other than that, it's a one-man shop. It's a one-employee shop. So what you're buying is his book of business. You do not need to do that.

You need to open up a local Facebook marketplace ad and say, I will be there 24-7, 365. Midnight, 2am, I will be there. And you, 365. Midnight, 2 a.m., I will be there. And you're going to get a few calls. You're going to show up at midnight and you're going to start your own business. You don't buy somebody's clients from them in this one man shop kind of way. I mean, you can do that. I wouldn't do it. If it was a big company, maybe, but I'm recounting on my offer I am too you know one of the first things I discovered working in the financial world is how absolutely devastating it is when the breadwinner of a family dies and there's too little life insurance

or none at all grieving families are suddenly left behind scrambling to pay bills and trying to make ends meet I also discovered that there are a lot of rip-offs in the life insurance world, like that whole life crap posing as an investment opportunity. What you need is level term life insurance, usually 10 to 12 times your income, which is the smartest, most affordable way to protect your family. The key is finding an independent broker who represents a ton of companies and works for you, not for the insurance company. This is exactly what my friend Jeff Zander and his team at Zander Insurance are all about. They shop the term life companies to find you the best options, and they've been around

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We are on election eve. Indeed. Did you want me to say more? No, I just like to feel the tension. People are driving, they're squeezing their steering like to feel the tension. People are driving. They're squeezing their steering wheel a little bit tighter. Oh, yeah. Or they're doing construction work,

and they're just turning the rims a little bit harder. I should have went dun-dun-dun. I know. This could be the last podcast ever produced. The Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by WhyRefi. Talk about that was a great transition. Loved that. James trains us on our transitions. I think I nailed that one, James.

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today to learn more. That's the letter Y, R-E-F-Y.com slash Ramsey. And this may not be available in all states. That's a big deal. Wow. Okay. Today's question comes from Maggie in Utah. She says, I think our 21 year old son would not be affected by the news and go on about his life as usual. If we tell our daughter who's 16, I'm afraid she will get stars in her eyes about all the things she could buy. We don't plan to die soon, but you never know what could happen in life. Yeah, I think that's a great question. I wonder, it's all really going to be based on what your what your will is and what you plan to do with this money i mean obviously i would not have this set up um john that if something happened like if

something happened to sam or i or i the kids aren't getting all of this money lickety split correct right it is something that will come in increments at certain age points with other certain things in intact. Like to Dave Ramsey's point, you can't be on drugs to get this money. Right. And so I'm not sure what your plan is, Maggie,

but I want to make sure that's not the case because an 18 year old suddenly getting a million dollars is, doesn't usually go well. Yeah. I I'm reading this as she's wondering, when do we sit down and tell our 16 and 21 year old that we have three and a half million dollars in assets and that's how we're going to divide this up i and and to my to my point that i'm trying to make is i want to make sure they have the right plan in place

first yes so that when they do tell them it's not hey and by the way when you're 18 you're going to get a million dollars so i think the way to avoid stars in the eyes is to say here's what's going to happen like if if we were to pass away here's what would happen you would be gifted the money to pay for school and at this age you'd be given the money to have a down payment on a home and at this age you'd be given you know and walk through it so that at every point in time it's you're receiving this money and here's what it's for as opposed to and you're just going to be scrooge mcduck rolling in bills right so i think it's all about how you have it set up, how you speak about it. And truly, all of this is about what you've been teaching over time, right? From the time they were eight

years old, you know, or younger about how to handle money. And so the hope is that the 16 year old will have some level of, okay, you know, and as she gets older, even more level of, okay, this is, I have to be a manager here. This is not the key to unlock my whole life. And I get to be irresponsible with this. Yeah. I, I, I think the age appropriate is the words that manage here. And quite honestly, I would not sit down. I depends on your 21-year-old. I think I would tell my 16-year-old that, hey, if mom and I, something happened to dad and I or mom and I, you're going to go live with so-and-so until you turn 18.

And we've put together some things. They would sell the house so that you can afford to go to school. And what else? They'll sell the house and you'll be taken care of and we'll cross that bridge when we get there details don't need to be talked about 21 year old i think a little bit more hey if we ever passed away and you want to keep this particular rent house um we'll talk about that but you'll let us know and we'll begin to slowly balance those things out yeah my 14 year old knows if mom and i were to die we have some things that

would sell that we take care of his schooling and he'd be going to live with so-and-so yeah my eight-year-old knows you're going to be going to live with so-and-so right like it's just age specific i think rachel cruz says share don't scare that's right and i like that so sitting down your eight-year-old and be like one day day mom and I are going to die. Like, that's a lot, right? Yeah. Letting them know, hey, we have a plan. If something ever happened. Yeah, you're all good. We're going to be okay.

And we want you to just be able to be sad. And then Rachel and Dave has been pretty open about his story. They didn't know the full extent. They knew mom and dad were well off. They did not know Dave Ramsey well off. Yeah, big pockets. Until they had graduated and they were married and they were not know really dave ramsey well off yeah big pockets until they had graduated and they were married and they were moving on with their lives and then they sat them down but

they had a detailed plan and then there's some different levels of specifics you can get to there so um share don't scare and developmentally appropriate um i don't know that the dollar dollar dollar amount i don't know that you ever need to sit down and go through each detail unless you want to say like, hey, this house right now is worth about this. Oh, I think at a certain age, I probably would. Yeah. Like depending on your wealth.

21, 25. Yeah. I mean, to Dave's point, they kind of, they have a rhythm for them. It's yearly. Now they do. Now. But like, depending on what that is,

maybe it's every couple of years you're like hey as you see big changes in your wealth or in your state whatever that is um it might be worth it to do that but i think as much transparency as you can at the right age is a good thing yeah kids want to know are we going to be okay and um what are we going to be taking care of i think she's right to think yeah if you tell a tell a 16-year-old, hey, if we die, we get $1.7 million. Bro, sleep with one eye open. I wouldn't tell them. I wouldn't tell a 16-year-old that.

You're out of your mind. You're out of your mind. Let's go out to H-Tone and talk to Eric. What up, Eric? How we doing? Hello. What's up? What's up, guys?

So I'm 21. I make 110. I'm going to make 110K this year. Okay. And my problem is I have a 21-year-old car that isn't running as well as it used to. Okay. So because of that, I'm looking at something a little more fun, a BMW 330i. Okay.

And I'm stuck on if I should give in and enjoy a newer, well, it's going to be used, slightly used, a newer vehicle. It's a 2021. Okay. Or if I should keep the money because I would cash it out, keep the money to further invest since I do invest pretty aggressively, I'd say. What percentage are you putting away? Investments probably at least...

Off your gross. I'd say at least 30%. 30%. Okay. How much will the BMW cost? After taxes, it should come out to about $29, $30. Okay. $30K. Okay. And tell us more about the rest of your financial snapshot. I want to know how long you've been making this income.

I want to know if you have any debt, and I want to know your living situation. Okay. So last year I made $103,000. This year $110,000. What do you do, man? I cut hair. I'm a barber. barber wow are you one of the barbers that i see on the internet that makes hair out of no hair that you like i could wow anyway i've

seen some things on the internet 110 cutting hair i'm sorry $110,000 cutting hair? I'm sorry? You make $110,000 cutting hair? Yes. I love this country. Way to go. Way to go, dude. So you're on the uptick. That's really, really great. And it's just your business. You've been investing 30%. Do you have any debt? I did go on a trip recently. I ran up a credit card. Oh, I don't likey. Okay. How much did you run it up? It's like 4,500. Okay. That's a lot. What kind of trip did you go on? I went to Japan.

Okay. You're living that life at 22 years old. Jeez Louise, man. Any other debt? Uh, no. Well, I do have two investment properties in Ohio. How can we forget about that? In Ohio? Yeah. Okay.

So just to remind people, you're in Texas. And so tell me about these investment properties in Ohio. Oh, wait. Wait a minute. I'm against the clock. I'm going to tell you what my thought is for this. I don't think you've learned enough about how to manage your money properly yet. I think you're doing really good financially with your income, but I want you to learn more about how to manage

debt and the right way to buy real estate. For me, you buying this car right now feels reckless because you haven't learned everything you need and it's a slippery slope for you. So I'd say no right now. Keep diving into the Ramsey material. Get a Camry, my man, and sell those rental properties in Ohio. But congratulations on being a $110,000 a year barber. This is The Ramsey Show. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. All right, so I was born and raised in Texas, and I love the myth of the lone cowboy. You know, the guy who doesn't need anyone or anything. It's a fun story, and it's a lie. In our self-obsessed society, we're obsessed about our own diets,

our own workout routines, our own jobs, our own social media feeds, everything. It's easy to forget that no one can do life alone. And I don't care if you're an introvert, an extrovert, or whatever you want to call yourself. We all have to have a community and a support system to do life alone. And I don't care if you're an introvert, an extrovert, or whatever you want to call yourself, we all have to have a community and a support system to do life with. It's time to shift the focus from doing it all by ourselves to knowing that we can only be well and whole when we ask for help. Therapy can be a great source of help and support for any area of your life. And if you're thinking about starting therapy, try BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy, so it can fit with your schedule. To get started, just fill out a short online survey to get matched with a licensed therapist. And if it's not the right fit,

you can switch therapists at any time for no extra cost. This month, start to build your support system with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash Ramsey Radio to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P, dot com slash Ramsey Radio. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions just outside of Nashville, Tennessee, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, get out of debt, find work that they love, and learn how to have great relationships and emotional and mental health. I'm John Deloney, joined by my great friend Jade Warshaw.

We are taking your calls on Election Eve. Aw, yeah. 888-825-5225. Jade and I were just making bets. Yeah. 888-825-5225. Jade and I were just making bets. Yeah. We were talking about if you had to put actual cash money. By the way, you can bet on the election, which is sick and sad. But if you had to put cash money on the line, who do you think would win?

It was an interesting conversation. And back where the personalities, where our offices are, Ken Coleman and Rachel Cruz are back there, and they are lit up like a Christmas tree. This is like all 10 Super Bowls into one. And for me, I'm going to get off the show today and head to the woods, and I'm not going to come out until this whole thing is over. So it's the opposite of that for me.

That's funny. I want to make sure my chickens are okay and that they're still producing eggs in case this whole thing. I will definitely watch and I will we will all be okay. Of course we are. We'll be okay. Unless this other candidate wins.

And then it all comes down. Let's go out to Sacramento, California and talk to David. What's up? There you are. What's up David? Hi there. Hi. Thank you so much for picking up my phone call. But anyways, my question is this. I'm about to close my escrow and the current interest rate that I'm locked in is really high. It's like 6.875. Okay. And my loan officer tells me, hey, don't worry about it. In about a year, two years down the line, interest rate is going to go down.

You're going to refinance. So that's fine. And I want to put in, I have the potential to put in a lot of money like up front. Because from the calculation from your show, teaches me how these things work. And so it's just mathematics. And so my loan, so I'm shopping around. I'm shopping around with two different loan officers along with my realtor, and they all wonder, why would you want to put money up front?

Because they're not financial advisors. They just want to get you in this house. And they're filtering it through what they would do. A lot of people, you you know it's human nature if you give advice you're kind of giving advice based on what you might do and a lot of these loan officers for homes they most of their life is people trying to scrape together and mow lawns to get get that 2.999 up to 3%. It's so hard to find people who actually save money like you, David. It's just rare. I just want to make sure that my math is not wrong somewhere.

So they suggest this. Save your money now and wait until you refinance. Let's say right now I'm at 6.8, right? Wait until it goes down to 4 and then put in all the money in when you refinance to 4%. And I'm punching my number. I'm like, no, still, it won't benefit me by putting it in later in life versus now. And even if later in life, it's also a year later. And you can't predict the future. That's the truth.

We can speculate and say, here's what we think will happen. But the truth is, I mean, Fed, the Fed lowered interest rates and it had an adverse, an adverse effect on the home market temporarily, I think. I think there's a lot of things that affect that. But right now, those home loans went up just slightly, you know, those interest rates. And so you never know what's going to take place. We're in an election cycle. You don't i mean i i would tend to agree yeah i think over time mortgage rates are going to go down and you'll be able to refinance but you truly don't know you have the money here and now and you have the ability to affect how you want your mortgage

to feel here and now and so if you want to put as much down possible i vote for that because when you put as much down possible, yeah, it's definitely lowering your payment. It's ensuring equity and it's getting you to the point of payoff a lot faster. And then, yeah, in two years or whatever, if you want to refinance to get that lower rate, yeah, it's up to you to do so. David, how much are we talking here? Like, how much cash are you sitting on that you're debating on whether to put down or not uh i uh with all the uh minus minus um uh my closing costs i have about 65 000 you know sitting on the side collecting at only at only four percent you know uh in uh um yeah okay um so it's only it's only collecting at 4% while my interest rate is at 6.8 right now. So it's more beneficial putting in the house instead of just let it sit there at 4%.

What's the total purchase price of this house? The total purchase price is $485,000 and I'm putting down 25% already, but I want to put in more, but they're like, why would you want to do that? I think they just don't understand that way of thinking. I think most people are not thinking about the idea of paying off a mortgage. It's just not in people's mind. The minimum possible to get in the house is enough for you is a lot of times where people's mind is at. Can I throw an alternative in there that will just throw a wrench in all this for you, David?

Okay. Okay. It's a different calculation that I do. I am not a number savant. I'm just not. I'm just not quick. Like Dave, I've sit by Dave. I sit by Jay. They just do math in their head. It's amazing. I just, I can't do that. Okay. Here's the different calculation I make. What job do you have? What do you do for a living? So I, I'm basically, I am in clinical trials. In clinical trials. Okay. So you do, you do R&D, you do research? Yeah. Yeah. Research. Yes. Okay. So let's say one of the new candidates comes in and just cuts off NIH funding all of a sudden. Or does something like warp speeds it again. Like Trump's Operation Warp Speed, right?

And suddenly dumps a bunch of money and you get to skip the third step and go straight to market. Either way, imagine your job goes away and you have to go find other work. What I would, the reason I would vote to put all the money down aside from the math, and you've done the math, right? And so you're seeing it, it would be quote unquote making six point whatever percent what my APR is because it's only making four in this place. And I could put in a mutual fund and there's going to be the TikTok bros. They're like, bro, the gap, the spread, all that. But you're doing the math, right? The additional layer of peace that I would solve for in my house

is a non-number guy is if I lost my job, but my mortgage was only $275 instead of $350, would that lower my payment enough that I could go down the street and get a regular job and keep my home? Okay. Do you see what I'm saying? Yeah, I do. And so I, in my house, when I've taken out mortgages, I solve for peace. I call it a soul tax.

I will pay 2% or 4% on the, I will pay that so that I know if I got fired or if my job went away, I could go find another job or two and keep my home. So my wife and my kids would not have to move. And I know there's, there's, it can be, that can be stretched out. And we'll, if you keep your 65 grand in emergency fund, then you've got that to spend. I get all that. If I'm going to sign up for a mortgage, I want that payment to be something that I could absorb if and when something happens, right? And you're in a field, I'm in a field, who knows what happens to us the day after tomorrow, right? And so I want to take as much risk off the table on these low level on this side of the

barbell. And that is, is my housing covered? Is my four walls covered? Do you have an emergency fund? I do. Yeah, dude. So that's all I have to say is, dude, I would solve for peace here. You've done the math and you're right on the math.

I would solve for peace and put this money down on a house and take out as small a mortgage as possible. Make the bank the least amount of money possible at your expense and be able to take care of yourself if something were to happen to you. Does that sound right? Okay. Yeah, sounds good. Thank you so much for your confirmation. You're on it.

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dollar. You can download every dollar for free. F-R-E-E. Free in the app store or the Google Play store. I don't know if Google Play is a store, if it's just a thing. Or you can click on the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or podcast. Every dollar. Every dollar. I feel like we need to say that low-key. Every dollar. All right, let's go out to ATL Atlanta, Georgia and talk to Fancy Nancy.

What's up, Nancy? How we doing? I'm doing fine, thank you. Thank you for taking my call. I just need some assistance, and I know that y'all will be able to help me. But I'm 59 years old, and I've been married for 37 years. I was a stay-at-home mom mom and I homeschooled my three kids. Um, but I'm currently in divorce proceedings. Oh gosh, I'm sorry. Yeah, it was, um, due to emotional

abuse and anger and rage and, um, he's unwilling to address any issues. And so there's no trust and safety in our relationship. So I have actually been in Financial Peace University. He was not involved in our finances and I begged him for three decades to get involved but he would just ignore me although i went through financial peace university and i did all the baby steps we owe 55 000 on our house which is worth about 430 otherwise we have no debt but because we've never been on the same page with our finances, we never really saved anything. And he liked to eat out a lot, so we wasted a lot of our money. But in retirement, if we were together, we were planning on using some money that his parents left us.

How much is that? And it's about $800,000 right now. Okay. And later on in life, he started a 401k, which has about $300,000. And I have a small one, and we have some small HSAs. But the last major outburst, he basically told me he was going to destroy me. Oh, I'm sorry. It was because, yeah, sorry.

No, it's okay. Destroy you financially or physically? Well, financially, I believe. He never did it. He was just more emotional and kind of cruel and stuff. Have you met with the divorce attorney? I'm assuming you're in proceeding now. Yes.

Okay. And we're going to mediation. Okay. And I just wanted advice on what to think or how to proceed because my lawyer that I think is really good, you know, he said just come up with a good, better, best options and we're going to get together and talk some more. But my husband talks about, you know, his salary and this inheritance being all his. And I just don't know what to expect. No, I mean, he's not right. Yeah, he's not right.

And he's bluster. And so here's what I would not do. If he's not trustworthy in most of the other aspects of your marriage, I wouldn't suddenly go full trust on this bluster. Okay. He is trying to flex his muscles on a, on a situation that he is losing control of, like sands in an hourglass, right? And so I can't give you legal advice. I think your attorney knows the laws of Georgia and knows what mediation looks like in the state of Georgia, and that's different across the board.

But I will say, from my experience, that sounds about right. You laying out and saying, okay, here's what this looks like and what does it look like to split things? And as part of a divorce, I would make peace with probably we're going to have to sell the house and split those assets. And you should, by the way. And to get out of that, unless somebody wants to buy somebody else out from this house. And the inheritance and the retirement accounts, those things usually get split up in some shape, form, or fashion. And after 30 years together, and you staying at home for 30 years,

taking care of the household, you, generally speaking, are entitled to half of that estate, depending on what's going on but i can't give you any details on that i think your attorney's right on though um okay i was going to ask about the house like i don't want to stay there and he was thinking about buying me out great and i just didn't know if that's a good option or not or we should just sell it and okay that's i mean if he wants to buy you out that's great you'd still get your cut regardless six we have does another for you if you don't want it yeah and then i mean essentially based

off of what you've said you didn't say how much is in your 401k do you know off the top of your head well i never really worked so yeah it's like 60,000. Hey, Nancy, Nancy, I want you to change that language, please. Okay. Okay. You built and held together a home for three decades. Okay.

I want you to stop saying that you don't have any economic value in this arrangement because you didn't quote unquote punch a clock in an office. You've been working your butt off for 30 years. You've been keeping the books. You've been trying to manage the emotional safety of that home for 30 years. Dave gave me a line. He gave me a quote that has really proven instructive here.

Okay. Once somebody files for divorce, the marriage is effectively over. It is now a business arrangement. We are untangling business assets. And the reason you hired an attorney is because they will come in, they will know the law, they will be a hired gun on your behalf, that's their job, and they do not bring 30 years of emotional pain and hurt into the negotiations. So I want you to let your attorney do their job. Okay.

Okay? I want you to keep your integrity about you, and sometimes attorneys want to settle this thing for as low as possible because they're going to take their cut either way, and some will look at you and say, no, no, no, I'm going to do it right by you. Okay? Let them do their job.

But I want you to throw your head back, throw your shoulders back. This is a business deal now. And we're going to do what's right. And you constantly telling yourself, I didn't even work for 30 years. This is not true. You've been working a lot. Okay?

Yeah. A lot. Cool? Yeah. Can I tell you something else? Can I give you a homework assignment? Sure. How old are you right now?

I'm 59. Okay. I want you to write a letter to 63-year-old Nancy. Okay. And I want you to tell her that you're doing hard work right now so that she will be safe she'll have a place to live that's hers and she'll have some economic stability and that because of the hard work and the grieving you're going to do right now she's going to be okay okay all right and i want you to imagine her having a cup of coffee in a safe house, surrounded by her kids, surrounded by some goofy dog,

because you're not a cat person. I can already tell that. Thank God, right? You're a dog person. But I want you to begin to picture exhaling when you come home, not your chest tightening up. Okay? Okay.

Because that's been happening to you for too long, right? Yeah. Yeah. We're done with that now. I'm so sorry that this been happening to you for too long right yeah yeah we're done with that now I'm so sorry that this is happening to you let your uh attorney do their job yeah am I missing anything Jade um I think you're gonna come out of this okay with the assets that you guys talked about you're gonna be all right uh you're gonna need to work with an advisor and when the time comes we want you hooked up with a Ramsey SmartVestor Pro in your corner to help you go through this. But you're going to be all right. The money is there.

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Taking your calls live on life, money, your mental and emotional health, your relationships, your work, all of it. Call with just about anything. We probably got an opinion on it. All right. Today's Ramsey Network app question. So we have the Ramsey Network app. It's where you can go to get the show um you can get video of the show you can get all three hours of the show it's kind of where all

the cool kids hang out these days but we also have an opportunity to take questions in the network app and so we've got one from parker here here's what parker asks he says i'm 23 and i'm currently living with my parents but i want to move out of state to be with my fiancée. Okay. I have a job lined up, and she has an apartment we're going to be living in while we both work to save up for a home. The problem I'm having is my family. The problem I'm having is my family because they don't like the idea.

My parents have always believed in being married before moving in together and their stance is making it hard for me to make a decision. What can I do moving forward to show them that my moving away doesn't mean I'm betraying anyone? Sounds like a Bon Jovi lyric. I just want to live my life my way.

It's my life. Now or never. Here's the deal, Brother Parker. Rock on till the break of dawn, dude. If you want to live your life your way, go live it. Bobby Brown said it. The fact that you are having this much stress in your decision making means you don't want to just live your life your way. You want to live your life your way and have everybody else in the world go along with the way you think it should all work.

And you want people with wisdom to be quiet and just do what you want them to do. And you want people with opinions or who have data or whatever to just shut up and let you do your thing. So if you want to go do it, go knock your lights out. But I don't think that's what you just want yeah i got a hot take on this uh you know like i said bobby brown it's my prerogative like you can do what you want to do like you can but i think this is just what i think i think when

you're brought up a certain way and you and and in this case i'm just going to side with the parents i think this is the right way i think it it's a good idea to not live together before marriage. There's so much research around that. Anyway, I think when you are stepping out of safe boundaries and good boundaries, I think that what you're feeling is your heart going, this is not the right thing. And I think it's easier for you to say, it's my parents. I think it's easier for you to say it's my parents i think it's you i think you know this is not a good move for you and you're trying to go beyond it under the guise of it's my life i get to do what i want to do and why don't i feel good about this i actually think it's your conscience going that this ain't it uh parker and i think you should

listen to that that's what it's saying it parker parker this ain't it and so i think that's what's happening because i know you know you talked about the voices in your head. Um, I have multiple voices in my head. Yeah. But you know what I'm saying? The idea that you hear the people who, who you allow to speak in your life, whether in a negative way or in a positive way, you, their voice lives rent free in your head, right? Dave Ramsey's voice will always live rent free in my head. When I go to pull something off of a shelf that I have to pay for. I always hear him in there. Anyway, you hear your parents' voice.

And so I know if I had tried to strike out and move in with my boyfriend, I would have heard my dad's voice in my head like, whoa. And I think that that's what's going on. And maybe you listen to it because your parents raised you. The fact that you're writing into this show lets me know that you have somewhat of a good head on your shoulders. Maybe listen to it because your parents raised you. The fact that you're writing into this show lets me know that you have somewhat of a good head on your shoulders. Maybe listen to them. And I think it's good to call it.

Forget all of the wisdom your parents want to pass along to you and whatever, you know, they're old fashioned or it's just their dumb church, whatever you want to say about it. The research says couples who play house, and again, it makes sense on paper. I'll go with you. It makes sense on paper. Because you think you're testing it out. That's right. Before we

do this forever, let's try it out for six months. Let's try it out for a year. That makes sense on paper. What it doesn't take into account, and that may work with a car, right? It may work with a car, but people aren't cars. And the only way marriages work long-term, the only way romantic relationships and partnerships work over time is there has to be a tethered in commitment that says this cannot end. That's right. Otherwise, it will. Talk to anybody who's been married for any length of time,

and they'll tell you, oh, yeah, if that thing wasn't in concrete, we would have gone our separate ways for any number of reasons. And so it always comes back to this promise. I will be right here and we'll figure this thing out. And so you end up living separate, co-managed, co-everything lives instead of creating a new life that has one entity moving forward. It's hard, right? It's hard. I also think it's a guise.

I think it's, you know, if you're dating someone and you decide, I know I'm going to use old school language here. You decide to go steady. You're like, hey, it's just us. Like we're not going to see other people, whatever you want to say. That right there kind of has,

that's about the, before you're married, that's about as far as the relationship goes before you get engaged of saying, I'm only going to date you and only you, but our lives are intertwined. So I kind of have the ripcord I can pull if you turn out to be a psycho or you turn out to be not the one for me. Right. But then we've told ourselves, hey, I can take this commitment a step further by saying, come live, come move in with me or you move in with me. But it's really the opposite because you're saying, you're telling yourself, this is me displaying another level of commitment, but it's really you showing a level of uncommitment by saying, I don't want to marry you, but I want to intertwine our lives. But I also want to know that I can pull that same rip cord.

That's right. And so for me, I'm like, why would I get myself intertwined even deeper with you if you're still looking for a ripcord to pull? Do you see what I'm saying? If you're not ready to go in, don't go in. Don't go in. Right. And Parker, so if you're my friend or if you're one of my grad students, you came in and said, hey, let's just, I need to have coffee and just want to talk.

I would say, go marry your fiance and make a lineup a, and I hate to say this words, line up a business arrangement so that you begin sharing things fiscally, you begin sharing things romantically, emotionally. We are going to create a life together, a home together. And so if somebody ever yanks this ripcord unintentionally, there is a structured separation here. You're not just trying to figure out how to separate whatever goes on when y'all start buying houses together and whatever people do. But I'd say get married or slow down.

Slow down. If that's your fiance, then you've already made this sort of a commitment together, then wait till it's official. Yeah, I agree. I agree. I agree. I don't know, but I hadn't thought of your often

we get to blame everyone else in our life. Yeah. But it's because we don't like looking in the mirror and looking at our guts and being like, this isn't right. Sometimes it is that. Remember like in college when you're dating somebody and all your friends are like, that's not a good idea. And you start to go that discomfort. It's because of them yeah

it's like no because i know listen let's let's go down another trail then john because i think what it is is we've also told ourselves that uh and this is erroneous good friends and you know good supportive people they support you no matter what no and they they tell you the truth no matter what okay and that's the other thing like that's countercultural to go i feel bad because this person is telling me a hard truth right now or they've ingrained a hard truth in me right now it's easier to say you know i i'm gonna go my own way and i'm gonna uh do it my way and this is living my truth but then when you feel bad you're looking at everybody you're the one making me feel bad you're the one you should have supported me i'm like no bro that's your that's your conscience that is feeling bad

is inside out most of the time yeah right yeah and i think back to conversations gosh i could name them like trevor and tucker and christian and buddy and craig and god i could keep going for days man todd these are your? These are men in my life. Jean Noel. These are men. Chris Nelson. These are men who have looked me in the eye from when I was a little boy all the way until I was a grown man. And they say, I see something and you stop.

Yes. Or here's another way to look at this. Or I want to challenge you on this. And I am only sitting here because those men loved me enough to say, hey, stop. And women, too. There's been women, too, who love me enough to say, I'm calling you out. Yeah. Right.

And it's not. It didn't make me feel bad. Did I feel bad? Yes. I felt bad because I was exposed. Right. I was brought to light. And thank God those those men and women have called me out over time.

Man, let me tell you, if you don't have good friends in your life who will sit you down and tell you you need to cool it, cool out or they'll tell you about yourself, you don't have the right people. You need good friends do not always agree with you. And your parents, if they're being good parents, are not trying to be your best friend. They're not always going to agree with you. They're going to set you straight because they've lived a lot longer than you. Now, I'm reserving this, assuming that this is some parents who've got some sense. Some parents are a little bit, right?

So fair enough, fair enough. But you need somebody who's going to set you straight. And you need good people who are older than you, who have lived more life than you to set you straight. So all I have to say, listen to your parents, Parker. Listen to your parents. We'll be right back. My parents just don't understand. We'll be right back. the bureaucracy. So if you feel like the system is working against you, try a biblically-based alternative to health insurance, Christian Healthcare Ministries. CHM is a health cost-sharing

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm John Delaney, joined by Jade Warshaw. Let's go out to Orlando, Florida, and talk to brother David. What's up, David? Hey, how's it going, guys? Doing great, man. What you up to? Not much, not much. Appreciate you guys taking my

call. God bless. I'm calling to ask about my condominium. I'm not sure what to do with it. So I bought it in 2010 with cash. And the HOA has been increasing since then. It's about 600 a month. And a couple months ago, the HOA, the condominium company, the guys in charge.

Yeah. Did you fall out? No, we lost him. I think he fell out. We lost him. Well, maybe he'll come back. I think the HOA gods were like, stop, and they just cut it off. They have a lot of power.

All right, let's go out to... Wait, we think he might be coming back. Oh, is he back? Oh, line one. Okay, let's go out to Los Angeles, California and talk to Oh Susanna. What's up, Susanna? Hi, how are you both doing today?

Good. What's going on? So I apologize if my voice is shaky. I'm riddled with self-loathing and neuroses but um i am too and so is george camel you're in good company thank you appreciate that um so i guess just um i was asking how i can my financial question is what's the most effective way to tackle my student low debt to start pursuing my other financial goals. Um, I, I got my, I got my master's degree last year in social work.

I've been working in mental health for the past 10 years and I don't have a regret with, um, getting my master's because, you know, here in California, you need to, you know, you need that degree to, you know, move up in this field. And, um, I did take out a loan, um, my current debt right now. Um, I, I hate saying it out loud. It's a $41,944 and 79 cents. Uh, the reason why the loan is that big, um, just some, a quick background on me. Um, I am a first generation, you know, my, my parents are immigrants and, you know, they work really hard, but unfortunately, you know, there was never that, you know, like, like general, you know, like they were never able to help me out financially, which I don't expect them to, by the way, but you know, that's kind of

my background. I've been working since I was, I've been working since I was 15 years old. I haven't stopped. Susanna, can I, can I interrupt real quick, years old. I haven't stopped. Susanna, can I interrupt real quick? Yes, of course. Okay, listen. Jade and I are on your team. Okay? You don't have to apologize for anything else. Listen, 41K, Jade and I had multiple six figures of student loan debt.

You're good, man. We would have been calling you for advice years ago. Okay? And I dedicated my life to working in the emotional and mental wellness of other people. I love what you do.

I wish you didn't owe $41,000 because it's wearing you out and it's making you exhausted and it it makes it hard to show up for clients day after day, after day, after day, because you have your own anxiety and your own stress from that debt. I wouldn't wish that on anybody, but dude, we're on your team. Okay. Yeah. Thank you both. I really appreciate that. So let's jump in. Let's jump into the issue is the problem that you're trying to pay these off and you don't know where to start. Tell me the problem yeah so I think it's just mainly that like not knowing where to begin and then on top of that um I'm 31 years old and I you know I know that there's a timeline that I kind of wanted to follow I know timeline sometimes they they're not you

know they're not going to be linear. I wanted to be a homeowner definitely before I was 40. I thought, well, a lot of times when we have those goals, the way to reach them is to kind of reverse engineer it and say, okay, if I want to be a homeowner by the time I'm 40, I'm 39 now that gives me a nine year spread. What do I need to do to make this happen? Right. And in your case, it's, it's, let's do the math and let's figure out where the holes are. So if you tell me that you have almost 42,000 in student loans, the first question I'm asking is, is that your only debt? So I have two credit cards, but honestly, they're very small. It's about like a thousand each. So

I know that I can pay off easily um but it does it does matter in this equation and the reason that those credit cards matter is because they speak to your habits and so I don't want you to just because the balances aren't high I don't want you to say oh I have these credit cards but they don't matter they actually matter quite a lot because it speaks to your nature of wanting to borrow money to get the things that you want or need and so I want you to look at those and go, okay, this is a habit that I've started and I don't want to do this habit anymore. So the first step for you

is to break up with those credit cards and say, if debt is causing the anxiety, if debt is the problem in my life, I have to stop borrowing money and I have to cut that off at the source. And so my first homework for you off this call would be, let's cut up those credit cards and decide that we're going to live on our on the money that we make fair enough yeah yes that's fair so we got the two credit

cards the balances aren't particularly high is there any other debt that you want to talk about no it's just that it's just um just have to decide those two credit cards it's just a student loan debt okay and then how much are you earning from your job? So I make 77 a year, a little bit of change. And then I have a side hustle. I work at a hospital and that's not always consistent. I work whenever they need me, I'm per diem. But I want to say I bring home like 2000. So I think I'm taking home every month about $6,000. And I know that's a pretty good amount. And I never have the habit of,

well, aside from school, the only reason why I got the credit cards was because I had people telling me, family members, like, oh, that's the only way you build credit. It was never because I was... They were wrong. They jacked you. Here's the thing.

I want to get one last piece of information from you. What are you paying in rent every month? My rent is only $1,000. So it's not too high. Thankfully, I live with family. So I'm actually a really good saver. In my 20s, I traveled a lot. How much do you have

saved? In a year, i was able to save uh 30k and i've been pretty difficult yes i do and i put um some of it into a high yield savings account and then the rest i i have it in my savings again i i don't know a lot about um any financial things and and i'm well let me tell you suzanna got you suzanna let me tell you let me help you the 30 000 and i know this is going to go against every fiber in your being right now but i'm going to tell you anyway and you're going to roll this around in your head and my hope is that you'll decide to do what the people on the radio told you if i were you i would be tapping into that 30k that saved because it's not really your money. That money is owed to the student loan companies. And you will feel a lot better if you just give them their

money and you'll be able to sleep a lot better at night. Because right now you're holding it from them. You agreed to pay. So you have the $30,000. I take $29,000 of that and I'd pay the vast majority the big bulk of this the credit cards and the student loans off credit cards are gone today most of the student loans are gone and then how quickly could you pay off the other uh ten thousand dollars or so of student loans I can tell you November December and January by February, you could be debt free, Susanna. Wow. Yeah. That's 3,000 bucks a month, right? Would cover the rest of this. And you don't owe anybody in the world. And can I flip that around? Nobody in the world owes you. I mean, owns you. Yes. Okay. How cool is that? Yeah, no, that's pretty great. And you know, even before jumping on the call, I was kind of mentally, even I was mentally preparing myself.

Like, I think I'm just going to have to pay this and write this off. The only reason why I didn't start paying off my debt right away was because, you know, I think a while back they were supposed to forgive student loans for social workers. So I did put it on hold. I can understand. Yeah. Now that it seems like that's not happening um you know and I am in a relationship um you know obviously we're not engaged or anything but um I did tell you know my my significant other I told him look like you know because he he's

actually really good at saving money and everything and he's a really good support well it's good to have him it's good to get it all paid off and you're right I think that the reason you were steadying yourself and getting ready to do this because you know it's good to have him. It's good to get it all paid off. It is. And you're right. I think that the reason you were steadying yourself and getting ready to do this is because you know it's the right choice, and I hope you do it today. Go make it happen. Hey, for all of you listening to the show on YouTube or podcast, it's about to end. Head over to the Ramsey Network app to finish the show,

and that's where the party is at. To go further with Ramsey, we've got calls picked for you. You can filter by topic. All your favorite Ramsey shows in one place. Don't miss what's coming next. Come see us on the Ramsey, we've got calls picked for you. You can filter by topic. All your favorite Ramsey shows in one place. Don't miss what's coming next. Come see us on the Ramsey Network app. We'll be right back. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions just outside of Nashville, Tennessee,

it's the Ramsey Show. I'm John Deloney, joined by Jade Warshaw, and we are talking about your money, your wealth, the work that you love, and your relationships. The call is free. 888-825-5225. And some say

that the advice is worth what you pay for it, but we're going to give it anyway. Let's go back out to Orlando. We were talking to David in a previous hour, and we lost the call so uh David holler back girl at us and we're gonna see what's up guess who's back David in Orlando what's up David hey what's up guys all right we're back so let's uh slap it up flip it reverse it let's start all the way to from the beginning and go from there. All right. So I own a condo in Orlando and, um,

so the condo authority or the condo guys have decided that they want to turn the condo into a rental property. So therefore, yeah, they're forcing, they want to force everyone to sell and, um, the owners, the many owners didn't want to sell. So now they're increasing the cost of the HOA by adding special assessments and different things. So right now I pay $600 a month, which is already a lot for HOA. Every month? Yes. Wow. But in two months time, it's going to be $1,200 a month.

So they're forcing you out. Yes, pretty much. Now, you were on the line before. Did I, did I hear you say you bought, you bought it in 2010 for cash? Yes. So when you bought it, how much did it cost and how much is it worth now? Um, it costs a hundred, 100,000. Okay. 2010. And, um, so I looked, looked, my neighbor sold his. What's it worth now? I sent it to mine last month and he sold it,

no, last year, he sold it for $350. Last year? Yes. But the condo guys have decided that if we're going to, if we decide to sell to them,

they're going to buy my unit for $170,000. What? How is this possible? Exactly. I have no idea. I'm in shock. But I mean, you don't have to sell it to them. Why can't you just sell it to a...

But nobody would want to buy a property that they might force you to sell in a couple months. Oh, I see what you're saying. Have you had a lawyer into this enter this equation yeah i'm talking with first um some fellow um owners and they're also we're also trying to get lawyers into this to help out but yeah um i'm just not sure what to do now whether to just try to sell or to hold out and um because i personally i i don't have any ties here i i'm very good with selling but at a good rate and buying another place yeah but you don't want to be you know pigeonholed into selling for you know half of what your condo is worth yeah something doesn't smell right here and part of me thinks that this is a very clever move on behalf of the HOA to just reclaim all the property.

But I wonder if there's not some sort of trigger that they can't just double the rates on you without notice and without some sort of graduated increase. Maybe I'm wrong there, but I would have an attorney look at your contract and see. Okay, awesome. Because here's what I'm thinking. It could be a very slick move on the part of HOAs all across America to wait for these trigger events and then suddenly jack up everybody's HOA rates and force the sale of your house at a fraction of the cost and thereby reclaiming the real estate.

But that doesn't sound like that could be legal, but I could be wrong. I'm just OK. And I'm not going to pretend to be the be all end all on homeowners association. I'm not. But in my neighborhood, especially the one I moved in before I moved here, The homeowners association is compiled of the homeowners. And so what if the president of the association is an owner? Can you vote him out? Yeah. Can you vote him out? And if he owns his home, he's getting jacked in this process.

Like, how is he getting out of his home or he or she? Do you see what I'm saying? Like, I want to know the members of the HOA board. What are they doing and how are they handling this? Because they own their condos is my assumption. Even if they didn't pay outright cash for it, they're going to have a dog in this hunt anyway. And the HOA comes together and they just hire a property management company or whatever. So I want to know more what's going on and how your HOA maybe differs from the typical HOA in that way.

Because it's usually a jury of your peers. Yeah, I think condos are different because you own the inside, right? And they own the outside. Is that basically right? Yes, that's correct. Okay. I see. Do you have your covenants conditions and restrictions documents?

Do you have those CCRs? Yes, I could get those. Those are available to all owners. restrictions documents. Do you have those CCRs? Yes, I could get those. Okay, I would get those and all the bylaws and all the rules and I would sit down with an attorney to walk through them. Because either you're uncovering something that's going to happen all over this country, especially

in places where it's hard to insure like Orlando, right? Y'all keep getting hit by storms. It's going to be harder and harder to insure and we're going to see this all across the country and so this is just the first we're hearing of it or you're just getting um you're getting railroaded illegally and they just need you to um 300 300,000 dollar condo in Orlando it's not that that doesn't that tells me it's not a top of the line place right yeah that's correct okay so I'm wondering if you might have a company that's trying to take advantage of lower income people and try to knock, run them out and then knock the thing down. Because if they, if they force a sale at 170 for everybody, that tells me that dirt is

gold. They're going to knock the whole thing down and sell it to a developer to go build houses on, or they're going to turn it into low income rental properties and then just move on. Yeah. Oh, that's so. Yeah. Either way, it's gross. It's gross. I would get an attorney and look at your CCR documents and have them walk through them and see what kind of actual power this governing board does.

And if nothing else, they would have to, I would fight for fair market value. If they're going to buy you out, they need to buy you out at market value. Yeah, not at one half. That right there, for sure. Yeah. They might be able to force you out,

but your property is worth what it's worth. Right. And so if they're going to force you at 170 or pull the trigger on $1,200, double your HOA fees fees which are already staggering at 600 bucks good grief now wow what do you want to do go to a social question uh or do you want to just keep talking about this you let out a big exhale yeah not really it just makes me sad that's all it makes me sad it makes me sad when um here's what makes me sad you got a young man who uh i don't say played by the rules but went

outside the rules pay for something cash and said this is mine they can't take it from me and there's just always a group of people that are not they're not bent on playing by the rules they're bent on taking advantage and hurting people yeah i hate that and here's the thing and i i say this with all due respect to david david's got a cash property they're gonna pay him 170 grand he's gonna be all right yeah he'll be fine all right but there's plenty of other other families in that place that simply can't afford this yeah that are just getting hit over the head and that type of kicking people to the margins who are trying.

Yeah. It enrages me to a place where I run out of words. And if you listen to the show ever, I never run out of words. I know. Yeah. But it enrages me because there's a mom in there with two kids who had to leave an abusive relationship. There's multiple moms in that situation and they scratched and clawed to give their kids

a home. Facts. relationship there's multiple moms in that situation and they scratched and clawed to give their kids a home facts and these these evil people if this is how this is playing out are going to stomp on her and and bankrupt that woman bankrupt her family and kick her kids out on the street i hope it's illegal i pray it's illegal for them to do this i do too gross thanks for the call david let us know what you figure out. We'll be right back. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm John Deloney, joined by Jade Warshaw. Let's go out to Boise, Idaho and talk to Rachel.

What's up, Rachel? Hi. How we doing? Doing good. Thank you so much for taking my call. Of course. Thanks for calling. What's up?

Yeah. So my husband is a pastor. We've been in ministry together for about six years. We've done the Ramsey plan. It's done great for us. But recently we've kind of come across a culmination of people that convince that pastors should never be everyday millionaires and that we're making money in idols by trying to get out of debt and increase our wealth. Okay. I think there's two different things going on here.

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm crazy. Thing number one is we're focusing on getting out of debt. Yes. Right? And then the other thing is I want to use tithing. I want to use my church salary to become a multimillionaire. Yes.

Those feel like two different conversations to me. Okay. And Jade, hop in here and tell me if I'm crazy or not. I don't think I can hop in yet because I'm irritated. Not with you, Rachel. Not with you. All right, so walk me through. Let's start with the paying off debt.

Who is coming at you? And sometimes when people say like everyone is or all these people, it may be one or two loud voices, but maybe in your case everyone is. Walk me through. You guys are trying to get out of debt and get yourselves on solid footing as pastors of this church. Tell me who's coming after you um i really i honestly wouldn't say anyone specifically um it's we've had friends over the years that have just made comments about it and kind of poked at us making fun of how obsessive we've had to get about being gazelle intense and really trying

to dig ourselves out of a hole and we've paid off um we did the gazelle intense and we did the half-hearted and we finally realized that gazelle is the way to go we paid off thirty five thousand dollars way to go in five years thank you that's that let me just tell you that's amazing and anybody who told you otherwise was on that haterade i'm just tell you that's amazing and anybody who told you otherwise was on that haterade i'm gonna tell you that right now that is it makes me so angry because the truth is uh if you're getting your salary it's up to you what you do with it and as long as you're not doing anything unethical immoral whatever you get to decide and my guess is since you are for sure working in the church you're doing what they would say is a good policy with your money which is you're probably

tithing 10 you're probably giving a little bit above and beyond that right and correct that's all that matters okay that's all that matters i'll, for people, for you who aren't in ministry, people hassled me and Jade too. And we weren't in ministry. So I think anytime you do something countercultural or something different, no matter what job you have, people are going to look at you weird. Because, A, it's weird. It was weird when I was a dean of students at a law school and I was rolling up in a $3,000 truck. That was weird. It just was weird, right?

And I had to own that. And I made it super weird by the car I had and everything. But that was weird, right? It wasn't normal. And so, A, that's part of it. And B, sometimes getting out of debt, telling people I'm not eating out tonight, telling people I can't because I'm on a budget, it's indicting. It challenges them because they're not living that way and they're living a fantasy world where they

put everything on plastic and they'll just deal with it later yeah and so it makes people uncomfortable sometimes so that's okay I don't think I don't think that's a kind of tagging you because you're in ministry they might have been using the word idol just because y'all were talking Jesus shop or whatever. But that's less because you're in ministry and more because you're just doing something weird, which is getting out of debt. Tell me about the building wealth. So this is something that my husband and I have just kind of noticed in like Christian circles and groups that we've never really considered until we're almost now at the end of baby step two and close to the point where we can start building. But we've seen that people get frustrated by the idea of pastors having anything outside of what they absolutely need.

And kind of the idea that you should be giving any access back to the church or to people in need. Is that the doctrine of your church? No. Then again, if it's not the doctrine of your church and it's not your personal doctrine that you believe, who cares what they think? Yeah, they don't get a vote. They don't get a vote. And it's that simple. I mean, the truth is they're wrong because, I mean, I'm just saying that's the truth. A good man leaves an inheritance to his children's children. How do you think you do that beyond wealth? Like there is a component here where we're taking care of generations. And part of that is generosity, but generosity looks

a lot of different ways. And I think people forget that. And so at the end of the day, it's what do you, I'm going to tell you rachel what i tell my kids and this is not any in any form or fashion to be condescending but my daughter or son will come home and they'll say you know roman was mean to me he said he didn't like my drawing and i say well what did you think what do you think of the drawing i think it's good i say okay forget what roman thinks all that matters is what you think if you like the drawing that's all that matters rachel if you believe this is the way that you're supposed to handle your money, that's all that matters. Nobody else gets a vote in it, you know, and it's

based on wisdom and it's based on biblical principles. And I think that you believe that. And so that's all that matters. Who cares if somebody doesn't like the way it looks? And John is 100% right. When you go out in the world and you start doing something that's very different, you may as well go out with a mirror and hold it up to everybody who will look in it. And instead of somebody going, hey, great job. That's great. Instead, they or you look good. What you're doing looks good.

They'll see what they're not doing. And they feel like, oh, man. And it's a lot easier to poke holes in that and put it on you but it's really a self-reflection of again how they feel about what they're not doing or could be doing and it's really easy to wrap that around sadly enough kind of like religious or biblical views and people do it all the time we love them anyway and rachel i yeah double click on what jay just said there are some religious spiritual spiritual traditions that have monastic calls to poverty. There are famous traditions that give everything away.

Sell everything and give it to the poor and then you can follow me, right? And there are those also that have two private jets and drink from gold chalices. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. That people are like, we need your money. God needs your money. And there's those people too. And I think they can be criminal sometimes.

Okay? Yes, 40 years. And the church lets them go. And they lived in a parsonage. They lived in a house. And they worked for a quarter of what they could have made in the marketplace because they were doing something bigger than themselves. And they were left at the age of 60 with nothing. And the church did not take care of them. And so unfortunately, I think past behavior has forced a generation of ministers to, okay, we're on our own here

financially when this thing is over. And because it's led by a group of people that could fire us and I mean, they treat it like a business. i got to treat it like a business what happens between you and your husband and y'all's relationship to god and how y'all give and how y'all save that's that's you're gonna have you're gonna answer for that one not the rest of us so in the words of john deloney they don't get a vote okay okay thank you i appreciate that um and i would check your generosity and check your humility every step of the way. Okay. Is that fair? Okay. Yes, absolutely. Thank you. All right. Jay, that can be a thorny one.

You said it nicer than I would have said it because I would have told the folks to kick rocks. Yeah, that can be a thorn. But again, I do get the struggle when pastors come up and they're rolling in a Rolls Royce. And I get that. Yeah, but that's not what she's talking about. No, I know. She's talking about little snippy comments that people make. And they're just these little microaggressions that make you go, oh, like they almost catch you off guard of like how kind of ugly it is. But also if you're any type of person, when someone tells you something, you can't help but think about it and go, could they be right?

Right. Of course. And so that's what she's talking about, which I hate stuff like that, because here she is trying to do the Lord's work. I'm just kidding. Here she is trying to do what she believes is the right thing to do with her money. And you've got people who are in this case, what I believe are just not feeling good about their own actions or being just a little judgmental.

And I hate that for her. We all get to decide who gets a vote, who speaks into our life. Choose wisely. This is The Ramsey Show. We'll be right back. Welcome back. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. We'll be right back. Welcome back. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. Listen, we just launched a brand new tour. Me, John Deloney, and Dave Ramsey,

we're going to be hitting the road and coming to a city near you on the Money and Relationships Tour. And here's what's going to be rad about it. Never done anything like this. You in the audience get to decide what we talk about dave and i are both going to be on stage what does that mean that means that we're we're gonna set up like 10 or 15 or even 20 different options okay for instead of doing like a traditional 30 minutes and then an hour of walking back of just lecturing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's going to be an engaging evening with the audience where somebody might like the audience will vote and say,

we want to hear about, is the economy going to crash and Dave will go right in and do it. And then they'll say, we want to hear about sex and marriage and what's the stats and what's, what's a couple of ways to make it like, boom, then we're going to go. So like America locking,

like locking your vote, locking your votes. And so at the beginning of the show, audience it's gonna be i haven't been nervous about a live event in a long time because it's gonna be a game that's right um but their audience gets to vote on what you want to talk about and then we'll go from there and i also like it because dave and i will both be on stage most of the night and i like cutting up yeah with the old man and he likes putting me in my place and so it'll be a fun night okay but here's the deal uh louisville april 21st durham north carolina april 23rd atlanta georgia april 25th phoenix may 5th fort worth texas yeehaw may

7th texans i've been talking you up i need y'all to show up k Kansas City, home of the great Kansas City Chiefs, May 9th. We're going to have a blast. We're going to laugh a bunch. We'll learn some. And here's my hope that everybody changes their life. Go to ramsaysolutions.com slash tour. That's Dave and Deloney hitting the road together this spring. And I think America's going to be needing a lot of hope and some laughter.

And we got you. I predict sellouts. Let's go out to Chicago, Illinois, and talk to Paul. What's up, Paul? Good afternoon. What's up, man? How we doing? I'm doing great.

How about you, man? Eh, can't complain. Nobody listens. Oh, they do. Trust me. They do. So what's up? So I have been living with my girlfriend for about a year.

Okay. And just recently she told me, you know, she promised her youngest child that she wouldn't live with anybody until he was 18. So the whole year we've been living together, I've been helping her get out of debt because I personally have no debt. So I was trying to help her get out of debt and catch up on a mortgage and stuff. But now my question is, should I continue to do so, knowing

that if what she said is true in February, that I'm going to have to find my own apartment? Is she breaking up with you? No, she's just saying that she promised her youngest that she wouldn't live with somebody. How old is the youngest? 13.

But what about the last year when she didn't do what she promised? I can't tell you. I mean, this is the situation I'm in. All right, so Paul, here's what I would do. I would sit down and I would do this over breakfast. And it's a strategic reason why I always suggest breakfast and everybody always gives me a hard time about it. I would take her to breakfast this Saturday.

And I would say, are we done? Okay? Because I think she's giving you a message you're not wanting to hear. Well, or let me chime in too. And be honest. How is your relationship with the 13-year-old? Don't get me wrong. We don't have any problems.

And I have asked that question, like, are we done? And she's like, no. I'm just wondering if the 13-year-old has reminded his mother and said, I don't like this guy here it's very possible per se or because his you know real father however you want to say it passed away

so he kind of has feelings toward like I don't want to touch my mom in front of me type of thing I can kind of respect that but you know it's you know it's just like I said it's awkward because like you know i'm trying to help her get out of debt and she doesn't have a job and i'm working three jobs right now to help us all why are you doing that why are you go ahead john yeah why why are

you doing that well because our mortgage is 1700 so her mortgage her mortgage yeah her mortgage if you want to if you want this to be your family and you want to take care of them and you love them, why don't you just marry her? Yeah, as the great Beyonce said, if you like it, then you better put a ring on it. I have asked that question and she says she doesn't believe in marriage. Okay. Now we're getting to the nitty gritty. She believes in sugar daddies who don't even share the house. Mm-hmm. we're getting to the nitty-gritty okay she believes in sugar daddies who don't even share the house paul this is we're living together now so that's you know i know but she's kicking you out paul

she's kicking you out right over a year postponed promise to a uh a teenager right okay i remember skipping a final exam to go have coffee with the woman who's now my wife. And I remember thinking, I bet I can figure this out. When somebody wants to be with somebody, they just figure it out. I also have been broken up with a bunch in my life for really like, I got to go wash my hair or, Oh my gosh, I got to let the dog out. Can't go out tonight.

Like, right. You see what I'm saying? Yeah. I think, I do think there's two sides of this. I think John could be right. I could,

I do see a world where she wants her cake and eat it too. Like she, I see, I see a world where her 13 year old is like, I don't like this guy up in our house, rightfully so. And I see a world where she's like, I want to honor that with him so you can't live here. But I could also see where she's like,

I want to be with you. I just don't want to be committed to you. And that's your choice to decide. Do I want to be with somebody who doesn't want to commit with me? She doesn't have to live with you. You guys don't have to live together. And I think it's a good idea that you don't. But you have to live with you you guys don't have to live together and i think it's a good idea that you don't but you have to decide do i want to be with somebody who basically never wants to get married and doesn't believe in marriage that's what i would you want

that paul all right i mean i wouldn't ask her to marry me if i wasn't interested in that you know what i'm saying okay so so so now my next step is do I stop, you know, paying for it now? You never should have been paying for her life to begin with. Now, I understand if you guys were living together, I understand you saying, hey, we're going to split this. We're both living in roommate style, right? But if you're not going to be living there, no way in the world do you need to pay for anything that has to do with her life.

She's a grown woman. Right, but do I start that now or do I start it in February when I move out? If she's asked you to move out in a few months, move out now. Have the dignity to move out now. Get yourself a place. Yeah, I'm with John. I'd move out right away and say,

let's just make this clean, and you don't have to be a jerk or anything about it. I don't think you will be, but just say, okay, yeah, if you made this promise, I'll move out as soon as i find a place instantly i don't want to put you in a position where you have lied to your son and i'm sorry for my role in this i'm gonna head out this weekend

but what do you think let's let's play devil's advocate here what do you think she will do when the money turns off i'm honestly i don't know like She's not working, so I don't know what she's going to do. One of my suspicions is she'd probably call and be like, hey, I need help with this, knowing that because you love and care about somebody that, oh, hey, I love you and I care about you, so because you need help, I might help you. Well Well why doesn't she work? Why isn't she working? I know her last job she got fired from that and I don't know if she's looking or not because

I'm too busy doing three jobs right now to try and keep us afloat. Hey Paul. Hey Paul. I want you to love and honor yourself as much as you're trying to love and honor this woman. I want you to love and honor yourself as much as you're trying to love and honor this woman. I want you to retain your dignity and your respect right now.

You're working three jobs for somebody who sounds like on paper is using you to the moon and back. Okay, Paul, you're a catch. You don't need that. I'm sorry this is happening to you. It breaks my heart for you because I think you really care about this person don't you yeah and you were there for her in a tough tough tough time right yeah yeah I'm sorry that she's that that I'm sorry I'm not gonna even talk ill of her I don't know what she's working through I'm sorry that this didn't work out in the way you wanted it to

um and yes I would not put another penny into this home into her lifestyle um she's asking you to move out i think that's the right move and i wouldn't put this i wouldn't keep doing this until february i would find myself a place now and retain my dignity and my respect and treat her with the dignity and respect she deserves and that she's asking for because it's an integrity matter that's why she's asking you to move out and she does not want to be married to you. She doesn't want to be married to anybody. And so cool. I'm going to honor that too. And then you need to ask yourself, do I want to be with somebody who will never fully commit to me? And those are questions Jade and I can't answer. Those are long-term plays for you, brother, but I would move out soon. And yes, I would stop paying any

sort of anything right away. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. Today's scripture of the day is Matthew 6, 26. Look at the birds of the air. They don't sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? Albert Einstein said, not everything that can be counted counts.

Not everything that counts can be counted. Yes, I've often told people you cannot put a marriage into a spreadsheet. Whoo, whoo, whoo. All right, let's go out to Tulsa, Oklahoma and talk to Josh. What's up, Josh? Yes.

What's up? Well, Yes. What's up? Well, I'm in a mess. Tell us about it. I am too, I think. What's up? I said, I'm always in a mess. What'd you do, Josh?

Well, about three months ago, the motor in my truck went out. I currently still owe about $14,000 on it. It's going to cost about $6,000 to fix. And I don't have the money to fix it. All right. That means you don't have the money to replace it, though, too. Well, I kind of already replaced it with another loaner

or another vehicle that I got out on that I got. You took out a loan to get another vehicle? Yes. This is what's really going to tell us what's in your heart. How much did you take out for the new vehicle? About $16,000. Okay. It could have been worse.

It could have been worse. Hey, listen. Right now, you know, it's Ram been worse. Hey, listen, right now, you know what we think about borrowing money on trucks. I'm going to shout you out and say that is not what I was expecting, and I'm quasi-proud of you, Josh. Me too.

People do a lot worse. I didn't want to completely screw myself, but here we are. Yes, I was thinking you were going to have bought a $78,000 24 Tundra and try to convince us that was a good buy. So good for you. All right. So what can we do for you?

And to be clear, we wish you hadn't have taken out a loan at all. No, I was dumb, but it wasn't as dumb as we thought you were going to go. That's right. So how can we help? Well, my thing is right now is that I still have the truck with the blown motor, you know, that I still owe $14,000 and about $330 a month on. Oh, wait a second. That is a whole other part of this. I'm assuming if you have a truck, I'm assuming this thing was paid off.

No. So you went and took out a second car note and you didn't even trade in the other one in to get anything for it or anything? No, they wouldn't they wouldn't give me anywhere near what it was worth so now you owe thirty thousand dollars on two crummy trucks oh my my my oh my my that's what we call screwed so how can we help well i'm i'm right now i'm trying to figure out what to do. You got to earn a whole bunch of money. Yeah. Yeah.

What do you do for a living? Heavy equipment operator. Okay. Yeah, dude, I wish there was some sort of magic wand here. You're going to have to make a bunch of money and pay this all. Let's see if we can go back in time a little bit and do some magic. So you just bought the $16,000 car with a $16,000 car loan. What's it worth now? Is it still worth $16,000? Possibly. Okay. Maybe a little bit less?

Yeah, probably a little bit less. Okay. There could be a world. Sell it right now. Yeah. Where you sell it right now yeah where you sell that right now and maybe because what if you had called me just from from the jump here with this other car we could we could have figured out some creative ways to get through this so i'm trying to eliminate the new debt that you've taken on and go back to the creative ways of solving your old problems okay um and so let's talk about your income to find out if there is anything there because if you were to sell this car tomorrow let's figure out how we can get you into something that works um okay so tell us about your income uh between me and my wife we make about 107 000 a year

okay that's a lot of money um what about her vehicle? What's going on? What, what had, how have you been getting by before you bought the $16,000 truck? We have her car, which is, we still owe about 12,000 on it. Okay. And what were you doing? You were just kind of sharing the load and, you know,

dropping each other off type deal. Well, I mean, no, we work, we work about 45 minutes in opposite directions of each other okay so what were you doing to get to work well when my truck went down i went and got a loaner car because i took my truck to the shop and i rode the loaner until they found out that it was going about six grand to fix it. And that's when we decided,

well, my first thought is that I was just going to let it go back to the bank. I was going to let them sell it and then I was going to pay off what was left of it. Like voluntary repo? Yes. Don't do that. What I would look at doing is

see what you can get for it as is. And I know you're not going to get much, but I'd see whatever that is. And until you know what that is, it's kind of hard to have the conversation, right? Maybe it's $4,000. I don't know.

You tell me, you seem like you might know a little bit more about that. It's about four to $5,000. Okay. And I'll still, I want it so that I can get for it. So I would not put $6,000 into it knowing that it's worth 4,000 that I'll still owe on it. That I can get for it. So I would not put $6,000 into it knowing that it's worth

$4,000. It would be worth $4,000 with a blown motor. Right, but then even if he sells it, he doesn't have $6,000. I don't want him going into a loan to get it. So what I might do is get out of this car, because my guess is you've put far more into it up until this point, yes?

Yes. Okay, what I might be willing to do is say if you can sell it and get four how quickly could you save up another two or three and get yourself just a new cash car but he's still oh ten yeah i'd still attend on it i mean if i sold it before i'd still attend on it oh shoot i'm forgetting that you still have that's why dude i i would say sell the sixteen thousand dollar truck today and you and your wife can figure out y'all can go scrape together six thousand dollars you make a hundred grand a year yeah i know you don't have it i mean but you went and figured out how to get sixteen thousand dollar loan on a new truck yeah i mean what's your other option dude is to pay thirty thousand dollars in depreciating asset you'd be throwing away um it's it's either go find six or just have a rent a car for god's sakes but do something bananas for the next 60 days or 30 days and come up with a six grand to get this truck back um or you're

going to be selling i mean spending at least 10 grand in sunk cost because you've already you got a note on it yeah paying three car notes cannot be the answer no the 16k car you have to sell you gotta sell that before it drops anymore you probably lost 10 the day you drove it off the lot yeah but sometimes trucks have depreciated themselves all the way down that's also sell that before it drops anymore. You probably lost 10% the day you drove it off the lot. Yeah. But sometimes trucks have depreciated themselves all the way down when you give them a 16. So maybe that's the case for you. I didn't go out and get another truck.

I got a little SUV that's good on gas so I can drive back to work. I didn't go completely stupid. Here's the deal. You're either finding $6,000 or you're finding $30,000. Either way, you're finding 30 grand. Yeah. Either way, you're finding money you don't have. And so I would find the smallest amount possible

and I would say, I'm going to drive Uber. I'm going to go bananas and make 2000 bucks a week extra. And you're going to say, I don't know how to do that. I don't know how you do that. I don't know what's going on in Tulsa, but you take other jobs. You work in the middle of the night. You do whatever crazy thing you got to do to get yourself squared up on this, you're 30 in the hole and depreciating assets man oh yeah it's not good not to mention your wife's car yeah and i just i i mean i'm sick to my stomach i i can't imagine if you feel trapped don't you very trapped yeah dude okay bb just level with me is there any amount of just bananas b-a-n-a-n-s you could go over the next 30 to 45 days and come up with five six grand what could you sell nothing nothing there's a whole lot this is my wife yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we hear. No, I can't imagine how scared y'all are.

So we completely started over. He took a job in Hawaii. Okay. So we completely, we have four children in the home. We uprooted our whole family. We moved to Hawaii, started over with the clothes on our back. And then we just came back to Oklahoma. So literally we're starting over.

We have the house that we bought. So there's more debt. But we needed came back to Oklahoma. So literally, we're starting over. We have the house that we bought. So there's more debt. But we needed a place to go. We really don't have anything to sell. What are you making your job, Josh? I make about $65,000 a year. Okay. So $107,000 combined is what you have.

We need to get you guys set up with every dollar so you can find the margin to make this happen. It's not going to happen overnight. You guys are going to be a one car family for a while and it's going to be very, very inconvenient, but you can do it. My husband and I did it for a decade and it was never convenient. So you guys can make this work, but going into debt is not going to be the way to get out of this. Thank you so much. This is another show in the books. Thanks to the dudes in the booth. Thank you, America. We'll be back soon on The Ramsey Show. I'll see you next time.