The Ramsey Show - App - Practical Help for Your Personal Finances (Hour 2)

Episode Date: May 31, 2018

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Music Music Music Music Music Music Music Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Dave Ramsey Show,

where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I am Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us. Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Kara is in Sioux Falls, South Dakota. Hi, Kara. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi.

Thank you, Dave. And thanks for being a blessing to millions of people. Thank you. We truly appreciate it. Thank you. One of the questions that I have is my husband and I own a construction business, and I work full-time also, so our income is pretty good. But I want to know, we have some debt yet, including our house,

and I'm putting 30% of my 401k into, or of my income into 401k. Do I stop that and put it towards our debt or do I keep it at the 30%? Because I'm 42 right now. My husband is 10 years older than me, so he's getting closer to retirement age. Gotcha. How much is in your 401k now? About $50,000. Oh, so you just started all this. Okay. Yes. All right. And what's your household income?

Taxable income? Taxable income is about $240,000. Way to go, kiddo. Awesome. You guys are killing it. And how much debt do you have, not counting your house? Not counting our house, about $50,000. Okay.

All right. Something's wrong. You're not putting 30% in your 401K unless you did it for one year. Yeah, I just started, you know, probably about one year ago. 30% of $200,000 is $60,000. started you know uh probably about one year one year ago yeah 30 of 200 000 is 60 well 50 in my job yeah my my job that i work at is only 48 000 a year so 30 of your income not your household income no no no oh okay now i'm catching on okay Okay, all right. That makes a difference. It makes the math work anyway. Okay, now, so here's what we have figured out.

The number one wealth-building tool that your family has is this wonderful income of yours. Okay? Yeah. The whole income, the $240,000. Okay. That's your wealth-building tool. The number one thing that keeps you from using it to build income or to build wealth is you give it to someone else called debt. So what we have figured out many years ago, and it's worked beautifully, the most efficient way to build wealth is to first become

debt-free and then have an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses in place so that then with no payments man you can pile the wood on the fire you can get with it okay so really what this takes you is one year you pay off fifty thousand dollars and put forty thousand bucks aside an emergency fund in one year making 240 right how much is your house payment? House payment is about $1,500 a month. We have been making $3,000 monthly payments. Stop. Stop. Make $1,500 payments.

Stop the 401k temporarily. Let's completely focus on the $50,000 worth of debt and kill it really fast. If you completely focus everything on that, you see how fast $240,000 will pay off $50,000, right will pay all 50 right right okay boom it's gone then we build an emergency fund now we're ready to really start putting 15 not 30 but 15 of your whole 240 away for retirement and that's a whole lot more and you're gonna you're gonna pile up so much wood on this fire, it's going to burn. You're going to be a millionaire in no time. And that's called baby step four. Baby step five is saving for your kid's college.

And six is you reach over with any other money we can find. And you should have some other money because you're making good money. And start paying off your house. Right. And how much is your balance on your home? About $210,000. Okay. I predict it will be paid off in five years home? About $210,000. Okay. I predict it will be paid off in five years if you do what I'm teaching you.

Okay. The other question I have is how do I budget? See, my husband owns a construction business, so he's a spec home builder. So when he sells the house is when we get our income from that. So it's really hard to budget what we're going to receive for income each month. Okay. The way you do that is you do a prioritized spending plan, and you list all of the things you need to spend money on from most important to least important.

I'll help you with that. The first one is food. The second one is lights and water. The third one is your house payment. And so on. Down the list. And then we're going to get down to that $50,000 worth of debt. Real quick. And we're going to start pounding on stuff. And then when the money comes in, you go down the list in order of priority. Most important to least important. Now, you do have a set amount that you know you're going to make. You're going to make your money, and he's always got some money coming in every month.

Yes. He doesn't have any zero months, does he? Once in a while he does, but not very often. Yeah, so I think you can budget on some of his money and your money a traditional way, which is just giving every dollar a name before the month begins, using your every dollar budget. But then you just do a prioritized spending plan with his big lump sums that come in. Is he building these spec houses on debt? Yes, he is.

Yeah, okay. I grew up in the real estate business. I've been in the real estate business for 40 years, 40 years. The people that go broke most often are developers. The second most often are spec builders. Okay. It only works when it's working. This market turns upside down, and he's sitting there with six houses and payments on them.

You're broke. It's an all-or-nothing game. So what this last step of your equation is for you guys to start building a house or two with cash and then all of them with cash. Okay. I want you to work to become your own line of credit with wealth. Okay. Let me tell you what that will do.

Your spec building will change. You'll be better builders, and you will never take a price cut because you don't have to sell it when it's paid for. Right. Your business will become more profitable, not only because you're not paying the bank interest on the construction loans, but because you're not having to play the dance with the bank while you're trying to build a house. Right.

And so that's your five-year goal to start being a cash spec builder. I don't mind you being a spec builder, but spec builders that are bank-owned, you don't make it. You don't make it through the downturns very often. You either just go out of business or go bankrupt completely, one of the two. And I don't want that for you. So I want you to get ready for the next downturn because it's not if there's going to be a downturn. It's just when and how deep they are.

Sometimes they're a bump. Sometimes they're a valley. But you have to prepare for the good times and the bad times and stay right on top of it. So good questions. You guys are doing beautifully right now. And so, I mean, these are hot times. It's good times in Sioux Falls. Obviously, you're selling a lot of houses, making a lot of money.

Let's make hay while the sun shines, meaning let's get out of debt, get your retirement really building up, get yourself in a position where you can build every other house with cash and then every house with cash on the spec basis. That's a really strong position to be in, by the way. It'll change your life. I've got a lot of friends that have made that transition after they went broke the first time.

The second time, they did it all with cash, or they become custom home builders with other people's money and never borrow money again. That's the way to be a home builder right there. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Did you know, statistically, when it comes to life insurance and protecting your family, that women are more likely to be uninsured or underinsured than men? This doesn't make any sense. Women make up half the workforce, contribute mightily to family incomes,

and in many cases are the breadwinners and take care of their families 24 hours a day. This is one of the most overlooked areas when it comes to financial planning. Maybe it's a relic of the past, but a loss of income or the need to replace family care is equally important for women as it is for men. Single moms, working moms, and stay-at-home moms all need term life insurance. Rates are actually lower for women, which is why I send you to Zander Insurance. They shop the top term life companies to find the lowest rates available. You can compare rates online at zander.com or call 800-356-4282. This is something every family has to deal with.

That's zander.com or 800-356-4282. Thank you for joining us. We're glad you're here. Orville is with us in Amarillo, Texas. Hi, Orville. How are you? Hey, Dave. I'm doing well. How are you today? Better than I deserve. What's up? I'm a well. How are you today? Better than I deserve. What's up? I'm a single male. I just found out about you and I dove into your podcast and I downloaded every dollar and I get paid tomorrow and I'm ready to get financial peace and hit the ball rolling here. But I want to go back to school and I'm trying to figure out where that fits in with all

this. I'm making $24,000 right now before taxes, and that's not where I want to be. Okay. How much debt do you have? $8,000. On what? That is with a car, some medical bills, and a personal loan for $1,500. Gotcha. And you're working 40 hours a for $1,500. Gotcha. And you're working 40 hours a week? Yes, sir.

Okay, good for you. How old are you? I'm 24. 24, all right. And do you have a degree now? Nothing past high school. Okay, you said back to school, so I didn't know what that meant. Yeah, I apologize.

Did you ever start college? I had tried to get started a while back with FAFSA, but I ran into some problems with W-2 issues, so I had held off on it and just never got back to it. Gotcha. Okay. What do you want to study? I'm going to get my EMT paramedic.

Okay. How long does that take and what does it cost? It's going to be a four-year class. The basic and the intermediate, the first year of it, I can do locally at one of the ambulance stations and it's going to cost me about $1,500 for all that. And then the next three years, I haven't priced it out yet okay all right um and you can do all of that while working yes what are you doing now um i'm a meter reader for the uh city okay cool all right well the good news is um you're you don't have a ton of debt and the

education you're talking about is not super expensive, at least the parts you figured out. Okay? Right. So $1,500 plus $8,000, so like $10,000 changes your life. Yeah. Does that make sense? I mean, you're debt-free and got the first two years of EMT for $10,000. Did I do that math right?

Just the first year. Okay. So $1,500 for the first year, $1,500 for the second, right? Yes, sir. Okay. So it's $10,000. Did I do that math right? Just the first year. Okay, so $1,500 for the first year, $1,500 for the second, right? Yes, sir. Okay, so it's $10,500. Okay. Did I do that right? $3,000 and $8,000. $11,000. Okay. Okay. It makes you out of debt and does the first two years. Okay, so what we need to do is figure out how we get $11,000 the fastest possible way. Right?

Yes, sir. And then that gets you able to do both. The good news is you can deliver pizzas four nights a week and make $1,500 a month. In 10 months, you are debt-free and have the money to do the EMT. And that's just with getting a second job. Exactly. Exactly. Now, maybe pizzas aren't your thing, okay? I don't care what it is.

Right. But my point is $1,000 a month for 11 months changes your life, and you live on your day job. Yeah. Or cut into your day job, start doing your budget, but make more and spend less, and let's get this 10 11 000 together really quick um this is very doable within 12 months you would be debt free you'd be debt free and

have the money to do your emt thing and the good news is you could probably go and start the emt thing while you're doing this right i mean how many nights a week is that loaded up um it was uh three nights every week for three months okay um for the for the first semester and it'll be the same thing for the intermediate yeah so what i just took away from you was your social life that's fine that i mean that that you know because you're going to give up something to hit these goals you have the problem with the problem is the problem with goals is not what you're willing to do to get to the goals it's what you're willing to give up to get to the goals that's what always that's what always messes you up i mean it's easy to lose weight but you got to

give up chocolate chip cookies you know it's easy to you know i'm saying there's something you got to give up that's harder than the go, than the things you have to do to hit your goals. So all you got to do is just start doing the math like I'm laying it out. And I think you're going to have a, I think you're going to have a very successful career as an EMT. Thank you, sir. And you're going to get there in about 12 months from today.

You're going to be well into your first year. But go, just go work your butt off, man. You're 24. You've got lots of energy. Life's good. And just tell your friends, I'll see you in a year. Elizabeth. Elizabeth is in Orange County.

Hi, Elizabeth. How are you? Hi, Dave. Doing okay. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Well, I just have a quick question.

I've been applying for like a reception job at a car dealership and just kind of trying to land my first job. And I know the real money is in sales. So my question is, can I be a successful salesperson without pushing this financing ideology on people? Because I do share your same philosophy about always paying cash and never financing. Well, everybody's got a definition of pushing, okay? And so you're not going to be a successful car salesman

if you only sell people cars for cash. You're going to struggle with the selling of cars, okay? That's not pushing, though. I mean, if you're looking at somebody that's taking out a $500 dollar car payment and they make twenty thousand dollars a year that's just immoral right and i couldn't participate in that ethically if i were you um so you know you can hold yourself to whatever level of standard you want but the question you've got to ask yourself is are you bringing a great harm to someone in the transaction now i don't believe in debt and i teach people not to go into debt so it would be very hypocritical for me to take credit cards in

my bookstore which we don't okay we take debit cards and so um as an example so i but i i have to hold to that standard. But I've got a friend that owns a pizza joint, and he takes credit cards for pizzas. And he doesn't believe in debt. But somehow we're pretty sure that buying a pizza on a credit card is not going to ruin somebody's life. They've got other issues if that's ruining their life. You know what I'm saying? And so, you know, we endorse Churchill Mortgage to take out mortgages on houses,

but we want you to pay them off as fast as you can. And that's consistent with our advice here. But we also tell people not to do adjustable rate mortgages. And, you know, we ask Churchill if they come from us, if that lead comes from us, please do not sell them an adjustable rate mortgage, you know. But you've got to decide where in there so there are car dealers that are you know my cousin's a car dealer he's a chevy dealer and he does a great job i've got several friends here in nashville that are car dealers and own big big companies and um you know

people in that business some of them will they'll loan money to a dead person you know and finish them off and then other people are very conservative and careful and they'll loan money to a dead person you know and finish them off and then other people are very conservative and careful and they want the customer to not be harmed by the transaction so that the customer comes back to them later and buys their next car there and if you're that person i think you're doing that ethically if you want to be in that business i don't think everybody that sells cars is evil you you know. But I think you have to do it with a matter of I'm going to treat other people well, you know, instead of just making the transaction happen to the detriment of the customer. And that's what you've got to think through.

And if you can keep that balance, then I wouldn't yell at you as your friend for being a car salesman. Again, I don't think there's anything wrong with selling cars, huh? I love car salesmen. As a matter of fact, I buy a lot of cars. But, you know, and you can make good money selling cars. Right now the market's real hot. You can make really good money. A lot more than being the receptionist, that's for sure.

So it's something to look at. But if all they're doing, and they want you to make the sale and turn a blind eye to what you feel is ethical and what you feel is proper and what you feel is uncaring towards people and that kind of thing, then no, I wouldn't sell cars for that organization. But there's other organizations that, you know, are much more reasonable in their approach to that. Hey, thank you for the call. This is the Dave Ramsey. You know, most of us have gotten behind on our bills at one time or another.

That's nothing to be ashamed of. It happens. And many of us know the embarrassment that comes with those harassing calls from collectors. Some of these guys are just scum. But then there are the collectors that are just plain crooks. These are the guys that take it a step further, and they violate the Federal Fair Debt Collection Practices Act on a daily basis. They're breaking the law, and they need to be stopped.

The truth is, debt collection is the most abusive, out-of-control industry in America today. But you don't have to put up with it. If you have collectors calling you multiple times a day, calling you at work after you've asked them not to, cursing or threatening you in any way, then you need to visit CollectionBully.com. These folks will connect you with an attorney who I know can help you. These attorneys know how to stop collection agencies from bullying and threatening you anymore. CollectionBully.com. Go to CollectionBully.com today. That's CollectionBully.com. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions, Lavinia. Lavinia is with us. Hi, Lavinia. How are you?

Good. How are you doing, Dave? Better than I deserve. Where do you live? I live in Huntington Beach, California. Whoa, bit of a haul across the nation to do a debt-free scream. Welcome. Thank you. Good to have you. So, how much debt have you paid off? I paid $107,000. Alright, well done. And how long did this take?

It took 35 months. Look at you. And your range of income during that time? Between 64 and 77, depending on overtime. Cool. What do you do for a living? I work as a staff accountant for a law firm. Good for you. Wow.

So the $107,000 might be a master's in accounting? No. It was my mortgage. Your mortgage? Yes. You paid off your house? I did. How old are you?

I'm 30 years old. And you live in California? Yes. That's illegal. You're not allowed to pay off your house in California. It's against the law. Yeah, it is a condo, but, you know. But it's yours.

And it's mine. You are 30 years old with a paid-for condo in Huntington Beach, California. I am. Woo! I love it! Well done! Thank you. Well done!

Oh, that's amazing. And did it in three years. Yes. And so you came out of school with no debt. Yes. How'd you do that? I went to a local school that was you know, was definitely reasonably priced, and my parents were able to afford most of it,

and I worked through college as well to be able to pay it. Somehow I have a feeling you're not afraid of hard work. No. A lot of overtime. Yes. And so are your parents wealthy? Is that how they paid for your education? They're not wealthy.

I mean, they started, they came to Americaica with uh you know absolutely nothing from romania um escaped communist communism and um came to america with absolutely nothing started my dad started his own business and um of course he did yes and you know and now now their their net worth is over a million dollars but it was I call that wealthy. Yes. But it was pure hard work. And they don't feel wealthy. My mom shops.

We just came from Ross. You know what I mean? So it's not like they're definitely not. But they were able to help you with school. They were. And they were. And there's six of us. So they were able to help with all six of us. Wow.

A lot of kids to feed. So what kind of business did your dad have or does he have he has a granite tile marble installation company construction yeah i love it this is a great story it is your your family story all the way leading into you being 30 years old with a paid for condo is a great story this is a great american dream come here in one generation, become millionaires, and raise a daughter like you. Wow. Yeah.

Well done. Well done, Mom and Dad. I love it. How does it feel to not have a payment in the world? You have to feel like an alien. It's definitely, it's so different

because, you know, for three years, I did almost nothing. I, you know, didn't go out to eat. I didn't buy any clothes. I didn't did almost nothing. I, you know, didn't go out to eat. I didn't buy any clothes. I didn't literally almost nothing that was not bare necessity. So now it's just such a different feeling once you get used to that, to be able to, you know, walk into stores and not think about it,

not worry about it and not plan it. And, you know, and even though that is, it's what I like to do, I still live on a budget, but actually having money in that budget for these categories. So that's permission to spend. Yes, exactly. Exactly. And it's just such an amazing feeling to, you know, just be able to do it and not have to think twice. Amazing. Do you know anyone in your age group in your neighborhood that you run around with that's even close?

No, not even close what i can think of right now but no you're amazing you're a rock star well done i'm sure your mom and dad are just bursting of pride and brought them with you to be your cheerleader they came down from where do they live from michigan so they drove down here from michigan and um to to be here they were my biggest strength, my biggest support, obviously with and through God, all things were possible, but they were my cheerleaders the whole way. So they decided to come here and cheerlead for me as well for this moment. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. It's as good as it gets. So when people tell you this

and they look at you like you have one eye in the center of your head because you're 30 years old and debt free, that's so unusual. And they say, how did you do that? What do you tell them the key to getting out of debt is? Well, I think that the key is definitely learning to sacrifice. And the reason why I did it and I did it as hard as I did and I worked as hard as I did to do it was because I wanted to be an example of what it means to sacrifice and showing people my age,

people with the social life and you can still have a social life, you can still do fun things but learning to sacrifice is something that's going to help you in the long run no matter what you do and where you go. So, you know, when you have a family, when you have kids, you know, people think that as soon as you get married or as soon as you have kids, you're just going to automatically become a good spouse or a good mother or a good father. But if you didn't train yourself to sacrifice in areas of your life, you're not going to be able to just instantly, you know, flip the switch

and start to do that. So not only did I, you know, I didn't necessarily have to give up restaurants, but I wanted to be able to do it so that if somebody asks, you know, is it really possible to not go out to eat? I can say, yes, it is because I've done it and I didn't even have to do it, but I still did it. So, you know, I gave up restaurants and then it became a fun challenge. So I decided to also give up, you know, sugar and chocolate, which is insane to me, but I gave up those things for a year. I gave up, you know, junk food. I gave up just, I wanted just to keep challenging myself and testing myself and seeing what else I could do. And, and it's honestly, it was such a rewarding experience. And, you know, the sacrifice and the learning what you can do and who you can become has

just been so amazing and so fun, really, too, as well. When you figure out that you do control your own destiny and then you go about the business of doing it, it gives you power in so many areas of your life yeah i can do all things through christ who strengthens me but when you figure out that when i take these actions when i when i so discipline i reap success when you figure that out that's uh it allows you to control any area of your life and and you know bad stuff's always going to happen good stuff's always going to happen there's blessings and there's curses there's things that happen in our lives but um you've got control of all the variables well done thank you very very very well

done what was the hardest part for you um i well i think just just you know, everyone around you is buying things constantly. And so what I did was I made myself a debt-free treat list. So the hardest part was, you know, people are getting the latest garments, the latest, you know, shoes or whatever. And so, you know, to strengthen myself, empower myself through it, I would just make this long list. I mean, I had maybe 30 things on there that I could buy as soon as I became debt free. And, um, you know, that's a good idea. Yeah. Well, and the crazy thing is, is that once it was over, I actually, I mean, I bought maybe five of them and, you know, some really nice things in espresso machine,

my first gun and things that I were, was really excited to buy and I love. But really, once you did that for three years or sacrificing for three years and continually saying no to yourself, it doesn't become as urgent to have all the things on the list. In that moment, you want it, but now- The fever goes away. Exactly. The fever goes away and now it's like, okay, well, I'll wait for my massage chair. I can wait another six months or whatever it is. Your story is incredible. I'm so proud of you.

I know your mom and dad are. We've got a copy of Chris Hogan's retire-inspired book for you. That's the next chapter in your story for sure. You're going to be a millionaire and outrageously generous as you go along. Your mom and dad changed their family tree, and you're walking proof of it, and you get to continue that tradition. So well done. Very, very, very well done.

All right. It's Lavinia from Huntington Beach, California, 30 years old. Her condo is paid off. I don't believe this. This is amazing. $107,000 paid off in 35 months, making $64,000 to $77,000 a year. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one.

I'm debt-free. I'm debt-free. Well done. Well done. free! Woo-hoo! Well done, well done! Man. That one had layers to it.

If you didn't hear all the layers, you weren't listening. Wow! This is the Dave Ramsey Show. For years, I refused to endorse any company that claimed to get people out of timeshares. I told my listeners it's a horrible product and that, unfortunately, they didn't have a lot of options. Then a few years ago, I sat down with Brandon Reed, the owner of Timeshare Exit Team. Brandon walked me through the timeshare industry. And I learned that you can't sell them and you can't even give them away. And then we talked about Timeshare Exit Team's process.

Every ownership situation is different, which is why they have more solutions than any other company. And that's when they earned my respect. Don't call any of the imposters out there. And there's a lot. The only timeshare exit company I stand behind is timeshare exit team. They have exited thousands from their timeshare burden this year alone. Yes, you will write them a check, but they stand behind their guarantee. They have exited thousands from their timeshare burden this year alone. Yes, you will write them a check, but they stand behind their guarantee. They will get you out or they'll give you a full refund. Call 844-999-EXIT online at timeshareexitteam.com. Adrian is in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Hey, Adrian, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show.

Hey, how are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? So I had a few questions for you. My wife listens to you all the time. So we're trying to lower our debt, and I have a debt collector that I'm currently paying medical bills to. And I owe about $9,000 left.

Okay, you're going to have to speak directly into your phone. You're breaking up. Oh, sorry. It's okay. You owe a debt collector how much? About $9,000 left. Okay. On what?

On medical? Yeah, medical. Okay. And what's your household income? It's about $60,000 to $65,000 a year between me and my wife. Okay, all right. And why have you been unable to pay them? Well, I've been paying them, you know, $250 a month.

Yeah, why have you been unable to pay them $1,000 a month? Well, I also own three houses. You're going to have to speak directly into your phone. I also have three houses that I'm trying to fix up that I recently acquired, and they had back taxes and stuff like that that I had to pay. Are they for sale? No, they're not for sale. I was going to pick them up and maybe rent them out, I was thinking.

Yeah. Well, you're broke, though. Well, that's why I'm asking. I'm trying to get rid of this medical bill, and I've heard you say before that, you know, we could settle with them. Yeah, you probably can if you had some money to offer. I mean, you're probably offering 50 cents on the dollar. They'll probably take it.

Be sure and get that in writing if you do that. But I would not recommend someone start buying properties to fix up and rent when you don't have the money to pay a $9,000 bill. You've gotten yourself in a pinch. You have no cash. So you need to get on a very tight budget and start living and managing the $65,000 income that you have very tightly and very carefully, and use that to get some money together and get these bills cleaned up.

And you probably need to flip a couple of these houses before you fix them up and just try to get out of them. Maybe you can make a little money in the process, I hope. That's what I would do. Thanks for the call. All right, Danny is with us in Austin, Texas. Hi, Danny, how are you? I'm good, Dave.

Thanks for taking my call. How are you? I'm good, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Well, I'm in a bit of a bad situation with my mother. I'm currently 28 years old, and she helped me take out some student loans, and it was time for me to go to school. We had no savings for my college,

and about $19,000 of that is strictly in her name in the form of Parent PLUS loan, or it was. I've paid out about half of it now. Our original agreement when we took it out was that she would pay half of the monthly payment every month. And that happened for one month until my stepdad found out and he didn't like that very much so she snuck some cash to me the next month and after that i've been pretty much on my own paying this loan wait a minute a parent plus loan is not in your name it's in her name yes sir okay so have you um have you uh your your agreement was that you were going to pay half and she was going to pay half, and you have already paid half. Yes, sir.

Tell her it's hers. Tell her it's hers. Okay. It's in her name. I recently did that. She received some inheritance, a large sum payout from my grandparents recently passing, and I had a discussion with her, and it did not go well. I don't care.

Okay. Listen, you are taking emotional responsibility for somebody else's crap because your stepdad is a jerk. Did I miss something? No, sir. Your mother took out a loan in your mother's name that your mother is responsible for morally with the agreement she made with you and legally to the bank. Am I missing something? No, sir.

Okay. I'm not trying to be mean to you, but she's being mean to you. And they're throwing guilt trips at you like they're a travel agent for guilt trips. They are, and that's been my dilemma this whole time. My husband says that we're done paying it. Your husband is exactly right. He's got a backbone. So here's how the conversation goes.

Call and get mom and stepdad on the phone. Okay? Do they live in your area? They do. They do. They live about 10 minutes away. Great. The four of you sit down.

Have a cup of coffee. And it sounds like this. Mom, we made an agreement. You took out a loan in your name. You were responsible for half. I was responsible for half morally. I was responsible for the half legally. Not at all. But I've paid for half. I was responsible for half morally. I was responsible for the half legally, not at all. But I've paid my half.

And so now, Mom, this is your loan. That was our agreement. If that upsets you, I'm sorry. But I'm holding you to the agreement you made with your daughter regarding her education. I'm not paying this. It's yours, Mom. Have a good evening. Okay.

Stand up and walk out. And if they flop in the floor and foam at the mouth, that's on them. It's not your fault. Honey, you didn't do anything wrong. They've been playing you like a fiddle. Your emotions have been torn up. Your stomach's been in a knot. Your throat's been tight for five years over this.

Am I wrong? No, you're not wrong. She's been beating the snot out of you emotionally with her erratic behavior. And your grown woman and your husband has said enough. And I'm with your husband. I'm on his team. Your mom and your stepdad are wrong, and they're out of control with the story you gave me. Yes, sir.

So just be kind, but be very, very firm and very clear. You don't have to raise your voice. There's no cuss words involved. Mom and stepdad, I love you you guys and i know you don't understand this and i know you don't like it but that really has become irrelevant at this point the agreement we made was that you were going to pay half i have already paid half it's in your name here's the paperwork i hope it works out for you okay the. The good news is it's not in your name, and you're not trying to collect from them. It's just right there in her lap, and if she doesn't pay it, they're going to call her.

It's not your problem. It's not going to be your problem. It's her problem. That's the beauty of this. It's very clean. The downside is that it's just going to be a problem in the relationship. But guess what? There's already a problem in the relationship. But guess what? There's already a problem in the relationship.

Yes. You're being abused. And so I'm going to send you a copy of a book called Boundaries by Dr. Henry Cloud because your mom and your stepdad don't have any, and you're going to have to help them have some, and I will give you this um from experience when you set boundaries with people who don't want you to set boundaries who want to cross over into your yard and have their dog poop in your yard when they cross over the boundaries and then you tell them they can't do that anymore. They have to stay in their own yard and take care of their own business.

They get very angry. It's not unusual at all. So I do not expect this to end well on the short term. I think they're going to have a fit. But I'm past caring on your behalf. I agree with your husband. He's put up with this long enough. I would not give another dime to this.

And if you do, you need to see a coach or a counselor and get some help. Because you've been messed up by this situation. It's just horrible. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. So hold on. And Kelly's going to pick up, and we're going to send you a copy of the book Boundaries by Dr. Henry Cloud.

You'll actually read the book and go, I know these people. Yeah, it's in there. Hey, good luck with it, kiddo. But please stand your ground. You've done enough. You've done your part and then some. And you've put up with this far too long. So painful. Well, that puts up with this far too long. So painful.

Well, that puts this particular hour of the Dave Ramsey Show in the books. Thanks to Zach Bennett filling in for James Childs. And, of course, Kelly Daniel, our associate producer and phone screener. I am Dave Ramsey, your host. And we will be back. Hey, guys. This is Blake Thompson, Chief Production Officer for The Dave Ramsey Show. This hour's up, but you'll find more on our YouTube channel,

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