The Ramsey Show - App - Pulling Out Your Retirement for a Home Reno Is DUMB! (Hour 3)

Episode Date: May 17, 2023

Dave Ramsey & Rachel Cruze answer your questions and discuss: "Should I go to law school and if so how should I pay for it?" How much buffer to keep in your checking account, "Can we pull from retirement for home renovations?" "My wife is opposed to budgeting... how do I address this?" "We're expecting quintuplets! How do we prepare?" Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET Join a Personality-led FPU class. Click here! Enter The Ramsey Cash Giveaway for a chance at $3,000! https://bit.ly/TRSgvwy Shop our bestsellers during the $10 Sale! https://bit.ly/TRS10Sale Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3cEP4n6 Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6 Interested in advertising on The Ramsey Show? https://ter.li/s64ye3 Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the pods moving in storage studios, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, host, co-host of the Smart Money Happy Hour, exceedingly popular podcast on Ramsey Networks

with George Campbell. Be sure you check it out. She's my co-host today. The phone number is 888-825-5225. Sarah's in Hartford, Connecticut. Hi, Sarah. Welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Hi, Rachel. Thanks so much for taking my call. Sure. What's up?

So I'm hoping you can settle this agreement between me and my husband. I'm 26. He's 30. We have a household income of around $140,000. Our net worth is $250,000. We've never carried debt except for our mortgage. The problem is that I've been feeling super underutilized and unfulfilled at work and have asked for more work, more projects, and kind of concluded that this field may just not be for me.

So I've dreamed of going to law school, so it would be part-time and in the evening but my husband thinks that giving up the stability and the growth trajectory of our current situation to cash flow it would set us back greatly and is just not worth it and I'm just looking for insight on that or what you think. What do you do now Sarah? What kind of line what kind of field are you working in? I'm a public librarian okay uh and how much would it take for you to get a law degree have you priced anything out yeah it would be eighty eight thousand dollars over four years since i would be doing it part-time okay so okay so 22 a year to cash flow it um what are you making now as a librarian um how much of that 140 is yours 65 65 for my full time um with projected increases

of nine percent over the next two years okay okay. Okay. The math of his proposal or his concern is not logical unless he believes you're not going to use the law degree. Do you think he thinks you're not going to follow through and be a lawyer? Like, I mean, if you have two kids, are you going to quit and go home? No, I think he probably thinks that the money wouldn't be so much more, considering I could probably go up to 90 in the next few years. Well, over the scope of your life, a lawyer makes more than a librarian. Hello.

That's not hard. Right. That's kind of, yeah yeah of course it of course it's worth 88 000 the return on investment of 88 000 if you work as a lawyer the rest of your life and do a decent to a really really good job you should make six figures not 90 and uh i mean you can there's plenty of lawyers don't make any money with their horrible lawyers and they don't manage their practice well and they don't, you know, they manage their career. Or they're in the public sector.

I mean, or they stay in the, they work for the state or something, you know, but you know, you can, you can get a law degree and not maximize it, but. And that's such a broad field anyway, Sarah, do you have, do you, do you have a, do you have a passion about a specific type of law that you're like, I really want to do that? Or is it kind of just this broad like law school just sounds great? Yeah, it would be human rights. That's kind of what I've always wanted to go into. I've applied for law librarian positions and I've gotten pretty far.

So I've kind of been close to that, but it just hasn't worked out. My first reaction when i hear that category is you're going to do a lot of pro bono work and you're not going to make any money sounds more like a crusader than a lawyer did i miss something no no i think it's not wrong i mean it's not a bad doesn't make you a bad person excellent but it does it does justify your husband's position. Yeah. Because if you go in that type of law and you're working on crusades all the time, which are great.

I mean, human rights, I can't think of anything better. But, you know, you're protecting other people. You're using your knowledge and the tools in your belt to fight for the injustices in the world. That's wonderful. But, you know, unless I'm missing something, I don't think that's a big paying side of the law. And then he starts to be right in his analysis of this. Yeah, but unless you guys decided as well that, yeah,

we're going to sacrifice our lifestyle and we're going to cash flow this, obviously we'd say that regardless but in what you're wanting to do with your life he says it's not worth it money wise is what he said I know but then a part of me is like yeah but I mean if you can pay for it and that's what you want to do that's your line of work I mean unless you can get about that same passion a different door than just having a law degree but I just just, I mean, I've, you know, we work with a lot of nonprofits and I can think of two examples right now

where people have traveled internationally out of, you know, persecuting sex traffickers and they're putting laws in place. Prosecuting. Prosecuting, thank you. Yeah, we should persecute them too, but prosecute them. All the above, all the above. No, but I'm'm saying like there's such

good work in that and a part of me is like not mad if you guys decide hey i'm going to cash flow degree to be able to use i'm okay with that that but then you know but the way you presented this it was more like he wasn't supporting his wife's dream uh and and all he's challenging is the financials on the dream and so that's so it comes back to a values question it comes down to do you guys want to spend the money for a break even because you want to be in this field yeah yeah that's fine or is there another way to go in that field if you want to if you want to practice as a lawyer if you want to practice a uh a higher compensated type of law with your law degree,

then it becomes a no brainer financially for you to go get the law degree. Okay. But yeah, this is a really good, healthy discussion for you guys to have, because what you're, you know, if he comes to agreement on this,

he's agreeing to support your passions in spite of the math. And that, that's what he's doing. And, and all he's saying right now is the math doesn't work. But if you want to do it in spite of the math, I'm okay with that. That's okay. And again, Sarah, I would just challenge you to say, hey, what type of human rights do I feel called to?

Do I feel like pulled to? And go and work with people in that sector. I mean, like I would get in there and just like experience all of it because sometimes like any job, any career, any passion, anything, it can seem one way, right, kind of glamorous. And then once you get in there, you're like, oh, man, I don't know if this is what I want to do full time, right? I might take my vacation time and intern in a human rights law firm that's spending their time on these causes for the summer and see how it feels.

Yeah. That would be a Ken Coleman type of a suggestion Rachel just made, and that's a good one. Or a Rachel Cruz suggestion that Rachel Cruz just made. Oh, well, there's that. Oh, there's that. There's that, too. Ken Coleman in my head. I did say.

Quick. I did say persecute. Get him out. Versus prosecute. Quick, get him out. Yeah. You're persecuted right now. I know.

I did. Man, I had such a good point. I screwed up words. Words are hard. That's okay. I mess up in mixed metaphors. It's a family trait. It's a family trait.

This is The Ramsey Show. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, is with me as a co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Our question of the day comes from Neighborly. The Ramsey Show question of the day is sponsored by your hub for home services. Take your home's efficiency and style to the next level with convenient solutions from Shelf Genie, Window Genie, Glass Doctor, and Mr. Appliance. Visit Neighborly.com, and you can schedule all these different kinds of home services and professionals.

They'll help you out. Today's question comes from Catherine in Wisconsin. What do you usually use as a guideline for a buffer in your checking account? Is this different from the miscellaneous line item on the budget? Yes, that is different. So having a zero-based budget does not mean a zero balance in your checking account. Thank God.

So keep a buffer there because stuff is going to come up and you just want to be able to make sure that you're not dipping into the red in your checking and getting hit with those fees and penalties and everything. So yeah, having just a buffer. We don't really give a specific dollar amount or percentage. It's really going to depend on your income and everything. So yeah, having just a buffer, we don't really give a specific dollar amount or percentage, it's really going to depend on your income and where you feel

comfortable, but just making sure yeah, you don't go in the red. But then your miscellaneous category is a different, that's in your budget, with the income that you have to be able to say, hey, stuff is going to come up realistically. And when things do come up that we didn't plan for, it doesn't completely whack out our budget, right? We still have a zero-based budget. So that miscellaneous category is very crucial because stuff always comes up that you just don't even think about. Yeah, miscellaneous is completely separate, as Rachel said. And I would say your buffer in your checking needs to be well under $1,000 unless you're above baby step three. If you're getting out of debt and building your emergency fund, any money that approaches $1,000 ought to be in savings or in your debt.

Moving on, you don't need like a $2,000 buffer in your savings, in your checking account while you're trying to get out of debt. So keep it under a grand until you're out north of baby step three. Somewhere, maybe, again, based on your income and what's going on, how much money is flowing through the account, what a mistake would look like, those kinds of things. But it does not mean, zero-based budget means every dollar that is coming in has an assignment, and that's of your income,

not every dollar in your checking account. They're two different things. Kim is in Los Angeles. Hi, Kim. How are you? Hi, I'm very blessed. Thank you. How are you?

Better than I deserve. What's up? Well, thank you for taking my call. My husband and I have started this a lot later than we thought we would or should. We've been getting the last 20 years of our life, we've kind of been scraping by on God's grace. And finally, in this last year, we are on two incomes. And now that we're starting this, we find ourselves, I guess,

between baby steps, maybe we can say. So the question is, can we cash out my 401k to get our house to what we feel we need it to be for our growing family and then restart our long-term investment? How old are you? Since we can't move. 43. Okay.

Well, if you did that, you would get a 10% penalty and your tax rate. And what's your household income? About $135,000. Yes. And your tax rate. And what's your household income? About $135,000. Okay. And so it's about 40% will go to the government of everything you take out. And so that's kind of like saying, Dave, I want to borrow money at 40% interest to fix up my house. That'd be dumb. Okay.

Follow that? Yeah, you wouldn't borrow money at 40%, would you? No. I hope not. Okay. You're not that girl. I know you're not. Kim, what baby steps are you guys, when you said, I'm in between, what are those? Well, we have like $15,000 in savings, yet I have about $10,000 with debt,

but then we have the 401K, about $50,000 there. Okay. Well, you're not doing the baby steps. You're doing your plan. Yeah, we just started. When I was looking, I was trying to figure out what to do first. Ah, okay. And how much will the home repairs be about the 50 okay and you said you're uh so you don't have enough anyway even if you want to do it because you got the penalties and the interest um right penalties and taxes so uh anyway but the um so so 50 000 worth of repairs

and you've got uh 15 000 in, and you've got $15,000 in savings, and you've got how much in debt? Ten. Okay. And you said your household was $130,000? Mm-hmm. Okay. All right.

What are the nature of the repairs? I have a boy-girl sibling that are sharing a room right now. The boy is 13 and the little one is 4. And I want to put up a room, like separate a different room so that they can have two separate rooms. And then we also don't have central air or heating. Okay. And then we also don't have central air or heating. Okay. And then we also don't have, our house didn't come with a garage, so we need some sort of storage.

Okay. I can tell you what Sharon and I did when we were at your stage. We sold our house and rented. Oh. And that got us out of debt, and we rented for two years, and we actually hated the rental house. My wife really hated it. But it gave us more space. In our case, it was a school district thing,

got us into the right school district and saved us a bunch of money that way. In your case, it might just give you a bedroom and a garage, and you're debt free and you build your emergency fund and then you start saving up to repurchase a home that does fit later because i think this house might be left over from a different stage of your life yeah it was yeah like but we have a 2.9% interest right now. Oh, well. Oh, well. Doesn't matter.

You don't have $50,000 and you've got a situation that's untenable for your family. Right. So I honestly. We were thinking of moving, but it's just the house are so big right now, we just can't afford to move. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, you're in Los Angeles. And we didn't even think of that. Yeah.

Yeah, we didn't even think of that yeah yeah i i might do that and here's what i want to do i want to put the two of you through financial peace university so you can learn the baby steps and do this so baby step one's a thousand dollars we want you to do that first you got that saved two is debt free but other than the home three is to build an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses so what that would lead us to do if you were following that would be to take enough out of your $15,000 and pay off your $10,000 in debt today. You're debt-free, but the house leaves you $5,000, and then you build that emergency fund up from five to three to six months of expenses.

You're not putting anything into retirement while you're doing that. And what I was reaching for early in the call was uh on the 50 000 if you do want to stay it's uh the way we've always worked it at our house and we teach people to work it is it's not a no it's not a no it's a not yet we can't do it today but we could do it making 130 000 after we do these other steps we could do it out there it might be three years and even logistically kim you said that there is there another room in the house? It's like a living room that we were going to separate. Okay, okay, okay.

I got you. So it would take some – Yeah, but it's not a $50,000 renovation. It doesn't have to be. That's a big number to put up a wall. Yeah, we were just figuring while we're doing that we'll do the ac also but you know doing one at a time and that may even be yeah just you know that may even take some even if you guys don't want to move right maybe moving moving is an option or just hey how long would

this take us to cash flow this yeah um what's the priority for me it's for me it's probably the bedroom and the number two is hvac and number three is whatever else you hadn't mentioned yet that's in that 50k because you still hadn't gotten to 50k with hvac in a bedroom garage correct you're gonna add a garage oh there it is okay that one's way down the list all right maybe it's a storage unit yeah for a little bit or maybe we sell or sell. Or sell stuff. Or sell stuff. That kind of. I mean, you just got to begin to work this through. But yeah, I hate to disappoint you, but that 50K is really not accessible without giving up 40% of it.

So I wouldn't do that under any circumstances. The only circumstances to avoid a bankruptcy or foreclosure. And that's not really on your situation. You're just tired of fighting this and not winning. So hang on. Austin's going to pick up. We're going to put you through Financial Peace University so you can learn how to do this stuff.

You and your husband together do it and change everything. This is The Ramsey Show. For those of you listening live or close to live, tomorrow would be Thursday the 18th. We will be doing some stuff with Fox tomorrow. I'll be on the Fox and Friends in the morning in the 7 o'clock hour central time. And Rachel's leaving. And Dr. John Deloney and Ken Coleman.

Jade. And Jade Warshaw are leaving first thing in the morning to fly up, and they are doing a town hall with Fox Business at noon Central Time, taking questions from the audience about inflation, about debt, credit card debt, student loan debt, all the things that are going on out there. And so the three of them will be part of that town hall at noon Central Time on Fox Business Thursday, the 18th. For those of you listening live, it's tomorrow live or tomorrow.

So, hey, thanks for joining us. Charles is with us. Charles is in Phoenix, Arizona. Hi, Charles. How are you? Hey, Dave, Rachel. I'm good. How are you?

Better than we deserve. What's up? I was calling because I'm having a bit of trouble over the last two years. My question is, how can I work towards budgeting with my wife? We've been married for two years. I was working on the baby steps before marriage. We got married, and anything Dave Ramsey or Dave Ramsey personality, my wife despises, not just reality of it. And anything, anytime I bring up the budget or talking through the budget or sticking to the budget, it's like scratching nails on a chalkboard to her. Since Rachel and I are so lovable, if she she despises us that would be your fault oh my gosh

for the record she didn't like you before she married me well then you got yourself into this i don't think i can help you i'm nicer charles maybe she'll like me so follow me on Instagram so now you're a Ramsey personality he already said there no I know but she just may lump me in with you you know we're two separate people so maybe she would like a female perspective I don't know okay I've had lots of women say so okay I got on board because of Rachel it's really not us that she doesn't like because she never met us. So we're not offended by that. But there's something that we are asking or suggesting that she do that she's opposed to.

And that would be controlling her spending. Or that would be putting up with you being a control freak and telling her what to do all the time. Or that would be there's something that she associates us with that's negative? Because being a grown-up and telling your money what to do is not something people generally oppose. It's been opposed to me. The common phrase is, I'm not living like I'm broke. Well, if you're not broke, then you're going to be broke. Yeah, there's the objection.

Okay, so she associates us with extreme frugality to a ridiculous level with no point. Yeah. And that's not actually what we teach, obviously. We teach extreme frugality for a short period of time so that you can live like no one else so that later you can live and give like no one else it's the later part that she hasn't gotten or doesn't believe it can happen or doesn't believe it can happen okay so um obviously you're gonna have to take a different approach than you've taken and if you've turned us into a cuss word, you can never mention us again.

I don't, for the record. Yeah. I haven't for about a year. Doesn't do any good. Okay. So I think you guys need marriage counseling. I've tried. Okay.

Then you're probably not going to make it because if she says you're not worth our relationship is not worth working on she's made she's giving you a really loud statement yeah i understand what's uh charles what's her what what does she oppose that that factor right that you marriage counseling what's what is her opposition towards that what does she say it's not really an opposition more of a I don't get a straightforward opposition it's more of a kind of a dodge of the question or the topic. I don't, I'm not a, my opinion is maybe she doesn't feel that she needs it or that we need it. But I've brought it up several times.

I myself, I'm all in favor of counseling and therapy and help. I myself started going to one therapist earlier this year just to improve myself, see if I can be a better husband to my wife, better father to our kids. I think your therapist needs to guide you through these relationship issues. I don't think we're qualified. Okay. Because I don't think this is about a budget, and I don't think this is about Ramsey personalities or Dave Ramsey.

I think this is about she's been hurt, she's scared, she's angry, she doesn't trust. There's a lot going on here that I don't even know what it is, and apparently you don't either at this stage. And that's what you guys have got to work on. You've got to get to where you love each other and will do anything for each other to serve each other and have a great

future together and right now everything that comes up to better your life you get a big shield that comes up and that's based on fear or based on anger yeah there's other stuff going on there's other stuff going on there and it's not it's not us i mean it's not it's not a there's not we're not the problem and so we're also not the solution. That's what it comes down to. So I'm sorry you're facing that, man. It's a hard thing to go through, especially in a two-year-old marriage. I mean, it's just awful.

It's just not, it's supposed to be, it's supposed to be better than this, you know? But yeah, I think your therapist needs to give you some very specific things to draw out and, you know, because this is not a sustainable relationship the way it's operating. You're not going to be 40 years from today still married doing it this way. I mean, because people finally, they just get enough and they're not going to do it. They're not going to live. She's going to get enough. She's going to run out with her hair on fire or vice versa. So you have to be growing and working together, or you can't stay together in a culture where nobody stays together.

I've been married 41 years. Sharon says we had 30 years of good marriage. Actually, she used to say that when it was 37. Anyway, there's about seven years in there yeah it's bad the first the first years were rough and uh but yeah it's and it was mostly on me so in that case i don't know if this is on you i don't know if you're being controlling and you're not you don't sound like it in this call but it doesn't mean you're not and the positive spin charles is if if you guys get to that place I

think there's always the beauty in your two years in which means the habits and what you guys can create as a foundation of your marriage can be a real yeah I mean you guys may just be doing this head collision that some people don't experience so 10 years down the road you're doing it two years uh but I hope that it I hope that it works out and that you guys can see yourselves as a team and again like you said just continuing to grow and who you are as people um and stuff yeah i'm gonna i'm gonna bet that there's a lot of stuff going on in her so and she may not even know that's the other thing that's what's hard that's what that's what a good therapist would do i really pray she would go because they're the ones that can unpeel those layers and so much of the unconscious that we live that comes out in these ways right comes out that

oh i don't want to i don't want to do i don't want to budget oh don't control my money i don't want to work on myself like there's there's a reason she's dodging all this if you say don't say financial peace don't say dave ramsey rachel Cruz to me ever, if you're out there and you have a spouse saying that, then it's your fault because you've used us as a weapon. And we're not a weapon. We're teachers. And so you used us to try

to control them and they don't want to be controlled. So instead of persuading, you tried to use a club. And that's not how marriage and how relationships work. And so you know if if if i if we have become a cuss word in your marriage that's your fault because we didn't do anything to become a cuss word except try to help you and we're not offended by that it's not we're not there's no defensiveness at all in that it's just funny and but but and it makes great

jokes and those are all fun we We can do all that stuff. But the bottom line is that you're being too stinking controlling or you're using us as a club instead of, you know, hey, I learned this great new thing to get out of debt. We're going to sell your car, honey. Dave Ramsey said, you know, that was dumber than a rock. It didn't work. This is The Ramsey said, you know, that was dumber than a rock. It didn't work. This is the Ramsey Show.

Our Scripture of the Day, Proverbs 3, 5, and 6. Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding. In all your ways, acknowledge him, and he will make your paths straight annie downs rachel's friend says if you will go where you've never gone before you will see god like you've never seen him before that sounds very annie s i was just what she was over last night well there you go having dinner hanging out with famous hanging out with famous people no well but she is she's my only famous friend no i don't hang out with famous people just everyone be clear not true not true i know all of them there we go i know paying off debt is smart saving and investing is smart

protecting your finances playing defense is smart there are 10 kinds of insurance coverage you might need based on what your life looks like today. And we built a tool called Coverage Checkup to show you which types you need to add, drop, or adjust. You can check it out. It's free. The Coverage Checkup at ramseysolutions.com slash checkup. ramseysolutions.com slash checkup. Graham is in Seattle.

Hey, Graham. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave and Rachel. It's an honor to speak to you both. You too, Graham. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave and Rachel. It's an honor to speak to you both. You too, sir. What's up? So after struggling for about a year or two to get pregnant, my wife and I are expecting quintuplets.

Whoa. Whoa. So we have five babies on the way. And, you know, we consider them a blessing. We are super excited about them. That doesn't mean we're not a little bit stressed about it. I'm stressed already. How far along is she, Graham?

Friday is 25 weeks. Wow. Oh, my goodness. How's she feeling? She's finally starting to eat solid food so that's a very good thing so i'm guessing i'm guessing you guys are doing all kinds of things to uh extend the pregnancy as long as possible right like bed rest or whatever all that kind of stuff she's not on bed rest yet but we actually did we're temporarily relocated to the phoenix area i'm the world's best quintuplet doctors here

yeah so his his goal is to get her to 34 weeks yeah okay average two weeks and so yeah we kind of dropped everything in our lives to focus on this and uh give these babies the best shot absolutely yeah that's that's uh that's a lot of wisdom. Well done. Wow, what an adventure. Yeah, it is. I'm not sure we have anything to add to this. But anyway, how can we help? Well, you know, I think just my immediate question would be, so we are, I guess we're on technically baby steps four, but we're not really investing right now.

We don't have any debt. We have about about 40,000 in a bank account saved up. And, um, in terms of my work, I am a freelancer. So my work is really all over the place. That's kind of the one, one of the major things I do struggle with. Um, I found success with it and I'm happy about it, but it's definitely more random. But I do have income coming in still, which I'm really thankful for. And so I think my immediate question for you guys would just be, is there anything unique that you would do, you know, over the next year in this situation? We have no other kids.

I would put everything on pause until you get this situation stabilized okay and that's gonna you know that's gonna be well into year one okay no i'm not i mean i don't i don't have any insight onto the medical stability uh but you've got all kinds of potential things there uh you've got to get all the medical things stabilized but then you've also got to get just you know lifestyle you just just your house stabilized five beds five whatever right five million diapers i mean it's like right so you know there you just got to get a rhythm to this this is this is five times as much so um yeah i mean i i think there's a whole lot of things you're going to learn about creating sanity out of this in the first year. Does that make any sense?

It does. And as big a pile of cash as you can have, and don't worry about investing, don't worry about the baby steps. Just push pause. Just a big stinking pile of cash. Because that's one less thing to worry about in the middle of all this other uh this adventure that you're on yeah now i don't want you using this to say oh we can never invest the rest of our lives that's not what i'm saying but i am saying let's get this to get the rhythm of the medical condition of the kids the rhythm of how the household operates processes systems you all use to feed five clean five whatever you get five to sleep all that kind of you know there's a

process you're going to do that you're going to learn from other people and develop in this that's um that that's going to take a lot of your bandwidth yeah and honestly graham you guys i mean i would i would predict yeah even just the mental capacity to even have to think about money and stuff like don't even let don't worry more about it right like you have you have money in the bank and don't go in debt don't don't invest yep just don't let um for a year because you guys are it's going to be yeah there's me no yeah more important stuff going on i feel like i'm like yeah so just knowing that that money is there there's cash available if you need it um but how to work the way i look at it is this i mean this is a type of investment in the sense that you're investing in the kids you're

investing in the stability of your family and getting this to a sustainable rhythm, you know, getting everything on a plane that has a reasonable level of predictability. So then you can start to say, okay, now we can invest. Now I can work this much. I can create this much income as a freelancer. We can invest this much. Well, you guys have help graham family and that's that's kind of the other interesting part so we we live about actually an hour and a half north of seattle we're in the northwest corner and that's the part of the country my wife is from however

her family has kind of migrated out of the area um we will be living in her in-laws house just to kind of get through this first year. They're like half and... Living in her in-laws house? Sorry, my in-laws house. Oh, okay. It's already happened,

Graham. Yeah. Yeah. So... That's good. So you're going to be, yeah, living with family

during some of this. We have a really good church community back there. Yeah, okay. We know we're going to be living with family during this. We have a really good church community back there. We know we're going to get a lot of help from my family's in Tennessee, though. So that's kind of the, I feel like the elephant in the room is maybe going, moving to Tennessee longterm just because the living is so much better. But again,

I think you, I think that's a choice you make after the year after you get the year behind you gotcha yeah because the the labor the delivery as you know is a very specialized thing you've made a specialized choice to move because of that and and there's just so much going on there and then the the the setting up of of i mean i don't know what else to call it other than systems. The operations of this organization that is just formed. It'll be a well-oiled machine.

Wow. Yeah, you got to get it dialed in, and it's a thing. So, wow. So, I'm so happy for you. Yeah, it's so exciting, Graham. So happy. Let us know how it turns out. That's just amazing.

Yeah. So great. I want to hear the rest of the story, as they say, as Paul Harvey used to say. Sweet little miracles um yeah as a sidebar for the rest of you listening i want to make real sure that no one misunderstood what i was saying i am not saying large families can't do our stuff i'm saying for a period of time they are facing a very unique situation. Large families do our stuff all the time. There are also people that have large families that whine to no end that they can't do our stuff because they have a large family and that we just don't understand. Bull.

You can use common sense even if you have a large family. You can live on less than you make and invest even if you have a large family. You can stay out of debt even if you have a large family you can stay out of debt even if you have a large family as a matter of fact you especially need to if you have a large family do all of those things and we have lots of people pull up in the uh in the sprinter and nine kids get out and they come in here and visit us all the time and do their debt-free screams and then they go yeah i read those articles that dave ramsey doesn't know about large families and we're we're pro ramsey and we're a large family.

You know, they do it all the time. So I hear it all the time. So that's not what we're saying. We're saying if you're bringing home five newborn babies that you're okay. For a short period of time, you're going to have to put everything on hold and get your life in the sane column from the insane column. Yeah. Yeah. Wow.

What a wonderful thing congratulations wow that puts us out of the ramsey show in the books we'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace christ jesus Jesus. Hey, it's Rachel Cruz. If you love the show and want a deeper dive on your money journey, we have a weekly newsletter that gives you trending and helpful articles and tips on following the Ramsey way. Just go to RamseySolutions.com today to sign up for our newsletter. Again, that's RamseySolutions.com to sign up for our weekly newsletter.