The Ramsey Show - App - Pursuing a Career vs. a Job Just To Make Money (Hour 3)

Episode Date: January 12, 2023

Ken Coleman & George Kamel answer your questions and discuss: How you can create margin and build wealth: Tune into Building Wealth Live Whether or not you should stay in a job where you feel undervalued, Avoiding debt-consolidation, Pursuing a career vs. a job to make money, "I want to leave my engineering job to be a plumber". Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6 Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Pods Moving and Storage studio, this is The Ramsey Show. It's where America hangs out to have a conversation about your life, specifically your money, your work, and your relationships. I'm Ken Coleman, joined in studio this hour by my colleague, George Campbell. We're Ramsey Personalities, and we're here to guide you through this hour. The phone number is 888-825-5225.

That's 888-825-5225. And this is a special treat. We have a special guest in studio, and we pulled him away from preparation for tonight. We've been telling you throughout the show that tonight's a very big night live from the lobby of ramsey solutions hq is the building wealth live stream event and dave will be leading us out and he's joining us in studio been prepping for the talk welcome sir well it's good to be here it's a little weird sitting in this seat but it's as weird as it is for you it's good to be here. It's a little weird sitting in this seat. But as weird as it is for you, it's weirder for me. It's like the first time I was in the car and I let my son

drive and he was 14 and I was over in the passenger seat. I'm hitting the brake on the passenger seat. Dave's got no brake. Yeah. No brake over there. Yeah. But it doesn't. But I mean, that's kind of how it feels. He can't stop me, but he can fire me. And so I can't stop you temporarily. I can stop you permanently. You can't. That's it he can fire me. I can't stop you temporarily. I can stop you permanently. You can't. That's it. Yeah, yeah.

He could absolutely put a stop to it and make no mistake. But we're excited. You know, we're really fired up. If you're just joining us this hour, this event is going to be unbelievable. The theme is building wealth. And it's a new year. The economy seems to be reported on differently every week. But the reality is that sound financial principles are still true, and they still work.

And what we've been teaching for decades still works. But a lot of you are scared. You're uncertain. And we want to address that you can still build wealth starting tonight. Building Wealth in 2023 could start tonight. It is our live stream event, 7 p.m. Central, 8 Eastern. Rachel Cruz will be doing a keynote. George Campbell will be keynoting. Dave Ramsey keynoting. And then Dr. John Deloney and I will be joining for a fun

conversation. And the whole point of it is to help you look at today's current state of the finance and economic world and what it means to you and your ability to control your future, fears about the economy, job loss, recession, and then how to create margin, beat inflation, build wealth, and worry less about money. And again, it's free. So I don't know what big plans you've got going on tonight, but you're not going to get more ROI than this. Join us by going to ramseysolutions.com slash wealth. That's ramseysolutions.com slash wealth. You can register rightysolutions.com slash wealth. You can register right now.

Yep, right now. And they'll send you a link to be able to watch the thing for free. This is an event that if we were on the road in your city, you would pay a lot of money to come to. And it's completely free. And I just left a marketing meeting before I came in here with the team working on this for the last several weeks. And they are thrilled. We're well over 200,000 folks are going to be viewing oh and uh we're really really excited about that uh tbn is also

going to be broadcasting it and so uh it's going to be a great night it's going to be a lot of fun and you're going to learn a lot and there is this weird thing happening in the one hand all of our data tells us when we're talking to you on the air, anecdotally, and also in actual research, we're hearing how many people are distressed, how many people are afraid, how much anxiety there is, how much fear there is. And yet you can't get a freaking parking spot at the mall. I don't understand. You can't find a new car on the lot. They're all sold. I don't understand. Yeah, that's weird. You can't find a new car on the lot. They're all sold.

I don't understand. The real estate market is horrible, but you can't find a house for sale. It's the weirdest thing. I mean, everybody is distressed, and I think the way they're medicating it is they're spending like they're in Congress. That's exactly right. I don't know, man. It's crazy out there.

You hear on the one hand how depressed people are and how sad it is and how long your face is and all that and yet you can't stay out of the mall and quit pushing prime on your magic wand in your pocket prime prime prime prime prime and crap keeps showing up at your dadgum front door magically yeah like like dadgum santa claus brought it or not that was last month people uh so we're gonna have have a fun tonight we're going to talk about real stuff real people like adult stuff and um and we're not going to talk about children we're going to talk about adults and so yeah it is a time to be i understand when there's when the leadership in the nation uh can't string a sentence together that it scares you i understand that the island of misfit toys can't find their butt with both hands in Washington,

and that scares you. I understand that the Fed apparently married their cousin. I mean, I don't know. This is the dumbest time I've ever seen. And so I understand when you look at that, how it's gloomy, but you can control some things in your life that you control the controllables. And in spite of that, oh, and by the way, inept government is not new. It wasn't new 20 years ago.

It wasn't new 30 years ago when I went on the air. And so, you know, you can't sit around and blame inept. The economy is in your dadgum brain. You've got to decide what you're going to do, and we're going to walk you through that tonight. We understand. I've been scared. I've been terrified.

I put myself in positions where I didn't know how we were going to keep the lights on. As a matter of fact, we didn't keep the lights on. They came and pulled them. They turned the dadgum water off, and Rachel was a brand-new baby, and I was so scared I couldn't breathe. I understand what stupid looks like and the hell it brings into your life. I understand that. And yet, we're also, it's not okay.

We're not going to live there. We're not going to live in this sense of angst, this sense of ambivalence. And so this is all about hope tonight. Yeah, and very practical. And George, you know, we've been talking about this in our fall tour of Building Wealth. And so now we're bringing it here and we're taking it live stream. But, you know, one of the things we've realized when we talk to debt-free screamers who stand on that stage right across the lobby is inflation's not freaking them out.

No. Why? Well, I think in spite of what's happening out there, they've decided, oh, I can control the guy in the mirror and I can start getting on a budget and I can get out of debt to put myself in a better financial position and I can have an emergency fund so I don't have to turn to the credit card companies to do it for me. And what that does is it puts you in a position to build wealth because now you have your income at your disposal to invest and you're not freaking out because you're prepared for those emergencies. And so that's the hope I want people to leave with tonight.

I remember when I was broke and I was talking to one of my buddies who was a lot older than me. He had more gray hair than I did at the time and i said you know that car costs twenty two thousand dollars to get a new car back then you know a long time ago like twenty two thousand dollars who can afford that he goes you can't yeah right you can't well there's that yeah you know it's true you can't so that's adult talk right there. That's like you can't buy everything. Well, dadgum, bless your little heart. Welcome to life. No is a possible answer to some of your questions.

And so, you know, with that boundary and with that understanding, with that emotional maturity, you can be set free from hopelessness, from anxiety, from a sense of being overwhelmed. You get overwhelmed when you're reaching for things. You know, I would be overwhelmed if I was trying out for the NBA. Yeah. I'd like to see that. I really would. No, you wouldn't.

It would be really ugly. You see Dave in the sweatpants and the headband? Would you like to see me jump and dunk it? I think he'd beat us. How big a trampoline would we need? I don't know. I'd need a trampoline to get on the trampoline. Right.

Yeah, there is that. You know, we were talking about margin, though. You know what margin really means? It's freedom. And you're going to be talking about that, too, George. Yeah. Just real freedom. And you don't have to worry about what a politician is doing.

So, Dave, thanks for stopping by. It's going to be fun. I know you've got more stuff to do. Can you all tell I'm caffeinated? We're ready to go, baby. The guy is fired up. Let's get this done. It's like I'm sitting.

7 o'clock tonight. Be joining up. Wow. Hey, we're not fooling around with this. We're going to punch this in the nose. Let's get it, people. Let's get this done. 7 o'clock tonight. Be joining up. Wow. Hey, we're not fooling around with this. We're going to punch this in the nose. Let's get it, people. Let's get it. 7 o'clock tonight.

RamseySolutions.com slash wealth. Did we mention it's free? Shut up about inflation. It's free. Folks, he may break through a wall like Kool-Aid used to do in the commercials when I was a kid. He's fired up. You don't want to miss it. RamseySolutions.com slash wealth to sign up for free now.

Hey, don't move. More Ramsey Show right around the corner. the ramsey show continues continuing to give you hope through practical steps forward clear path forward to win in your money in your work work, in your relationships. I'm Ken Coleman joined by George Camel. The phone number to jump in on the conversation with your question is 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. It's time now for a fun thing that we like to do. We take your questions. It's called Question of the Day and it's brought to you by hummus. That's right. A smooth, creamy, tantalizing mixture of chickpeas, tahini, olive oil, garlic, lemon juice. What's there not to love about hummus, Ken? Delicious and nutritious hummus.

Question of the day. Today's question comes from Bethany in Indiana. I'm currently working for a company I've been at for 10 years, and I'm at the highest position I can hold within the company. I haven't had a raise in six years, aside from 3% cost of living each year. And when I recently asked for a raise, I was given a 5% raise. I'm also about to go on my third unpaid maternity leave. I'm disappointed because I thought I was more valuable to the company and that they would care about how inflation is hurting all of us.

Is it worth staying at this company or should I look elsewhere? If I leave, what is the best thing I should do with the $28,000 in my 401k? The job I'm considering taking will not allow me to roll over my contributions. The job I'm considering would pay the same, but it will allow me to be home with my children for most of the day and have a very flexible schedule. Okay. So, George, this is about equal parts Coleman Camel here. Love it. I'll just say this. I'm going to cut right to the chase in the question about the raise and how she feels devalued. First of all, I don't think it's right that you didn't have some type of conversation about just a general, you know, kind of what is a standard increase based on performance over six years. Something's missing there, and we can't dive into that because I don't know why you went six years.

However, you recently asked for a raise, and you were given a 5% raise. And then the thing is, I thought I was more valuable to the company, and they would care about how inflation is hurting all of us. Now, here's the deal. If the theory is that as inflation rises, my income must rise, that is flawed, and that is not sustainable. When the economy and all the mitigating factors that go into what creates inflation make the cost of goods and services go up, your employer is not responsible for that. So therefore, they are not responsible to try to keep

pace with that. That's just not realistic. And it's an unfair expectation. So I'm just going to address that because I think a lot of people feel that. We see that sometimes in the news and headline and it kind of has a socialistic flair to it. But it just doesn't work that way because I'll remind you that when companies pay people more, and right now we're at an unbelievable wage growth period right now in the United States. Hourly wages are up, salaries up. That's why over 75 million people have changed jobs in the last year and a half. They're going for a bigger paycheck. Guess what happens? Simply, companies will then pass on their increased cost to you. That's why your combo meal at Mickey D's, George, is a lot more expensive and they cut the toy.

Brutal. Insult to injury. There it is. So enough on the inflation thing. Here's the deal. You should probably take the job that you're being offered because of the flexibility and the pay is still the same. Now she's got a very interesting 401k question. Yes. So what to do with the 401k? You said the job you're considering taking will not allow you to roll over the contributions. That's totally fine because I want you to do a direct rollover to an IRA outside of your employer. So you're saying, hey, they won't let me roll it over to the new 401k. That's totally fine because when you do a direct rollover to the IRA, you've got more investing options.

You're in control, and that's a great thing. And so I wouldn't worry about that. It sounds like this is an awesome role to step into, and I hope they treat you better than the current employer. Yeah. It's that simple. treat you better than the current employer. Yeah. It's that simple. Thank you so much for the question. Again, the question today brought to you by Hummus. Hummus. Nutritious and delicious.

Cameron is on the line here in Franklin, Tennessee, right where we are. Cameron, how can we help? Hey, guys. Yeah, my wife and I got into some really serious credit card debt, and we were trying to find some options because the monthly payments have just gotten too high for us to really keep up with behalf, cut our credit card debt by a significant amount and then pay this group over the series of about 48 months a fixed monthly payment, which is much less than what our minimum payments on our credit cards would be. So I'm just curious, because I've never dealt with groups like this. I'm not too familiar with them. Is this a good idea to go into a good option or is there other options that would be a better use to, you know, take care of this problem that we have here? Well, the credit consolidation here is not

a silver bullet and you can't borrow your way out of debt. And so I know temporarily it feels like, well, if we can get this interest under control, we can get the payment under control, then we'll be able to solve this. The problem is we didn't actually hit the underlying symptom, which is we've been spending out our eyeballs. And so I would continue to make payments on your current credit cards listed out from smallest to largest, what does that add up to in your monthly payments? Yeah, our monthly payments, it's about $1,200 a month. Okay, what's the total amount of credit card debt? $42,000. And what are the interest rates on those cards?

What's the range? It ranges anywhere between 16 to 22%. And what is your household income? $115,000 a year. Good. And what other debt do you have outside of the credit cards? We have our mortgage, and then we also have a couple car loans, but one of the car loans we're just about to pay off here in a couple months, so that'll be wiped, and that's really it. Good. What's that payment on that car loan that's about to be paid

off? It's about $330 a month. All right, so that will give you an extra $330 in your budget to throw at the credit cards. What's the other car worth, and what do you owe on it? The other car, I'm not sure what it's worth. I bought it for 15 grand, and there's about, I want to say, $9,000 left to pay off on it. Okay. You can also look into that as an option. If you can sell that thing, you know, you owe nine, and you can sell it for 15, and we downgrade in car and get something cheaper for now, that's also an option to help speed up this debt payoff process. But the real key is taking control of that $115,000. And you're saying you can't afford the $1,200 payment. So what else is happening in your expenses that's causing you to not be able to afford that? Yeah, I mean, it's just, it's our, you know, our mortgage and,

you know, it's just... What's your mortgage payment? It's $2,750 a month. All right. What's your take-home pay? Take-home pay is about $7,800 a month. All right. So that mortgage has taken up a big chunk at 35% of your take-home pay, which is also hurting you. But this is definitely doable because that means you've got the other 65%. Obviously, you've got some bills to pay. Are either of you able

to work overtime? No, not really. My wife, she works as part of a firm ministry and receives donations through that, but those amounts and what we get from that really fluctuates and everything. So in terms of a fixed income, it's mine that we have right now. Okay. Well, here's what I want you to do. I'm going to gift you one year of every dollar premium

so that you guys can get on a plan, list out your income, your expenses, track everything. And what you're going to do is a budget audit. You're going to go through every single expense and go, can we do better? Do we need this right now? What can we cut? You're going to go find some money in your budget because it's there and you're going to pay off these credit cards. And all it takes is a little bit of progress to now make this manageable instead of paying these credit card consolidation companies who are just out there to screw you. And so we call it con-solidation for a reason, emphasis on the con.

And so I would not go through this consolidation process. What's the interest rate going to be? Did you look at that with them, what the payment would be? Yeah, I have it here in front of me. Essentially, what their total fee because they're saying that they can get the my debt cut down to 22 grand and then they add on 10 grand to their fee i don't trust them with a 10 foot pole man i'm running away from these guys they're making a lot of empty promises and you're going to start paying them monthly fees to fix this thing and

it's not going to be fixed you're the the solution, Cameron, and I totally believe you can do this. List out your debts. Use our debt snowball calculator to show you what this plan looks like, smallest to largest, regardless of the interest rate. You will be debt-free soon, my friend. You just got to get on a plan. Cameron, you got to believe, and we're here to walk it through with you. You've got this. He's George Camel. I'm Ken Coleman. This is The Ramsey Show. Are you sick of planned obsolescence? You know, when companies make products crappy so you have to buy more of their crappy products? Well, me too. And it's why I love companies like Grip6.

Grip6 is all about quality products meant to last forever. That's why their comfortable, bulk-free belts, slimline wallets, and lightweight wool socks all come with a lifetime warranty and simple returns and exchanges. So check them out at Grip6.com today and get up to 20% off with the promo code RAMSEY. I'm Ken Coleman, joined by George Camel, we're Ramsey Personalities, and you've joined the Ramsey Show, where America hangs out to get common sense, clear steps to move forward in your money life,

your work life, and your relationship life. 888-825-5225 is the number to jump in. 888-825-5225 is the number to jump in. 888-825-5225. The City of Angels, Los Angeles is where we go next. Keith is there. Keith, how can we help? Hi. I guess my main question is I just graduated from school about less than a month ago. And I guess I'm trying to find a job

because I moved back home. And I'm just guess I'm asking, should I be focusing solely to look for a career based job? Or should I just find a job in the interim just so I can be making money? Okay, so do you have an idea of what ladder you want to be on? What career path, what 20 years, 30 years might look like? You got some ideas? Yeah. I want to do something with data analytics or business intelligence or business analytics, because my degree is business administration with a focus in information systems so i would not take any old job now if you need to get a couple part-time jobs uh or a full-time short-term job and what i mean by that is you know if you're out delivering uber eats or something and you can make enough

money but i don't want you just taking any job the reason reason is, is because you can get in somewhere with this desire where you want to end up and with the degree you have and just the skillset entry level, there are entry level jobs that I would rather you go after because it gets you in the door. The proximity principle is a book that I wrote. I'm going to give it to you as my gift. Okay. It's a bestselling book and I can sum the proximity going to give it to you as my gift. It's a best-selling book, and I can sum the proximity principle up very simply. It says, in order to do what I want to do, I've got to be around people that are doing it and in places where it is happening. Your mindset right now is, I've got to get around people that are doing this kind of work or running companies that do

this kind of work or have opportunities, and I'm just willing to get in. So instead of just any job, we're going to get a strategic entry level job so that I am in close proximity to the people that are doing what I want to do or to the work that I want to do. And I know if I do a good job, I'm going to get an opportunity to get on that ladder. Does that make sense the way I'm laying that out to you? Yeah. Like let's be strategic because if I am using the proximity principle and getting in that, getting in a job or an area, a company, a sector where I'm going to have opportunity to move up, then essentially I'm getting paid to be prepared. That's how I want you to think of it. As opposed to if I go get just any job that pays me what I need, but I'm not strategically located to be able to get in and move up. George, I know that you've done this well. In fact, I want to brag on George. I mean,

George lived this out. I mean, before I wrote that book, I could have said you are a case study and you've lived this. Well, it takes a level of a little of that hustle and grind where you kind of show up and you go, hey, I love data analytics. I love what your company is doing and I want to get in the door. Are there any roles, even if it's a temp job or an internship where I could step in because I just love what you guys are doing? I want to be a part of it. And you start to get a foot in the door. You may not get the job that you wanted right out of college, but man, if you do that and you have competency and skill, you're going to rise up very, very quickly and show how valuable you are. So do you know any companies that you want to work for currently?

I mean, I know my goal, obviously coming out of school was trying to, I mean, obviously it's not going to happen, you know, right away. But, I mean, I know my goal is working for one of the bigger companies, but that won't, I don't think that will happen until I get the experience. Yeah, start to look at those resumes. Building the skill set. What is needed. You say, hey, all right, they're looking for three years of experience, this kind of credentials, this Google Analytics course. And all of a sudden, you have a path to get there.

Yeah. You know, let's do a little bit of fun, Keith. Let's pretend that George and I want to do what you want to do, but we don't know as much as you do. And we say to you, Keith, what skills do I need to get in an entry-level job so that I can get where you're going? What would you say to us? Well, I know a big thing for data analytics and that most companies are looking for is that you have a good foundation of knowing database software, such as SQL, as well as knowing spreadsheet software like Microsoft Office Excel or Google Sheets, et cetera, as well as another database software that Microsoft uses, Microsoft Access, which not a lot of people use,

but some companies are looking for people that know that software. So do you see what just happened? I know what I need to know. You became the teacher for us in an exercise, so you know what you need to get. You know what you need to do. So this is the stage that you're in. What do I need to be learning?

What do I need to be doing? What do I need to be learning? What do I need to be doing? And that's the entry-level job we're looking for, so that I'm getting paid to learn, getting paid to do. And you're going to be fine, young man. So hang on the line. Let's give Keith a copy of the proximity principle. And while we're at it, while I'm giving stuff away, give him a copy of From Paycheck to Purpose. The Proximity Principle, George, is a deep dive into the Get Connected stage, which is one of the seven stages, the clear path to doing what you were born to do, which is in From Paycheck to Purpose. But you and I, we both did this. By the way, you know this.

You knew me when I was doing what I write about in both of those books. That's right. I've known you before you were even at Ramsey, before I was at Ramsey. That's right. But the things that you and I did, we were very, very intentional and diligent. And what I mean by that is we knew who we needed to get around, who we needed to talk to, who's going to be a decision maker. And we just kept at it. And when you do that with persistence and, but not being weird about it, you know, don't be a stalker. That's not what we're saying, but going on LinkedIn, for example, Keith, and just starting to search data analytics, who can I connect with? Who's even in these roles? Who do they know? And it has a ripple

effect. And all of a sudden, you're active, you're commenting on things, you're posting. You got to be out there proactively. A lot of people are waiting, Ken, for something to just like fall on their lap, waiting for someone to email me because I put my resume on one of these giant sites. It doesn't always work like that. It doesn't. And I think you can confirm this. And this is a little nugget here that I hope frees some people's minds right now. When I'm around the right people and in the right places, I don't actually have to ask for opportunity.

I have found that opportunity comes to me. Like, if you're actually in the right place, the right time happens. Have you seen that in your... Oh, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, you were here. You were here doing a different job. And for people who don't know your story, I was in a host role,

and I was moving into a personality role. You were really interested in it, but because you were here and earned the credibility and the right to stick your name in the hat, you actually earned it. You step into that host role, and then how many years later before your personality? Four years. And what's interesting, Ken, is—

Is four years worth the wait? Yes. I think so. And part of that, Ken, I didn't raise my hand to even be the host. I put myself in places where I went, hey, I want to get on stage because I just love to do that. And people see that and they tap you on the shoulder and go, hey, George, what do you think about this? What's one of those things that you did that was outside of Ramsey? I know the answer, but I want you to share it with people. You did some of that outside of Ramsey where you just got

yourself in a stage or on a stage and begin to confirm, do I want to do this? Oh, absolutely. Give me an example. I did some outside hosting stuff and I did whatever it took. I once hosted a, this was an auto mechanics grand reopening. And I was on the flatbed of a truck hosting this because I wanted to get the reps in. I love that. I once hosted the Sewanee Day Festival where I introduced balloon artists. Wow. Nobody's listening to me. They're out drinking beer in their lawn chairs.

Yeah. But you know what that proves? But you know what we, that we wanted it. That you want it. Yeah. And I have mad respect for anyone out there who thinks what they're doing doesn't matter right now because they don't see the end Game, yeah, and it's not the mountaintop they were hoping for. Yeah, but it's those reps that create the opportunity down the line

Yeah, it's absolutely right. You know everybody if we walked on the street george You know i've done man on the street stuff for him Oh, it's hilarious. It's a lot of fun If we walked down the street right now with a mic and a camera we said to people are you willing to do what it takes? To do what you love to wake up every day and be excited and make good money doing something you love? They'd go, absolutely. But then if we said, are you willing to wait as long as it takes? I dare say the answer would be a lot different. Yes. Oh, absolutely. It's patience. That's the game. Patience and diligence combined.

And it's really freaking hard. By the way, same for the baby steps. That's true. Anything worth it in life. Yeah. Gazelle intense, but waiting. Very difficult. Hey, we're going to keep taking your calls. Don't move. He's George Camel. I'm Ken Coleman. This is The Ramsey Show. Our scripture of the day comes from Proverbs 11, 24-25.

One person gives freely, yet gains even more. Another withholds unduly, but comes to poverty. A generous person will prosper. Whoever refreshes others will be refreshed. Mark Twain once said, to get the full value of joy, you must have someone to divide it with. Love that.

Yeah, that's good. Speaking of generosity, Ken. Speaking of generosity. What a segue. I think we have the greatest audience in the world. A moment just happened. A moment out in the lobby during the breaks. If you ever come, by the way, this is a great opportunity for us to invite people to come see the show.

You can watch it in the lobby. We have a great crowd here today in the lobby. And so we go out during the breaks a couple times an hour and we say hi. And a lady comes up and she says, a couple months ago I was here and you asked me if I brought any Skyline chili, which is a staple of cincinnati and so apparently when i met her i said something like did you bring me any chili because she's from cincinnati and she's like oh next time well look at this if you're watching if you're watching the show you can see here uh this has been refrigerated george feel that it's cool it's it's it's ready to be warmed up i'm very impressed

because i know how difficult it is to transport food on planes, trains, and automobiles. So she brought me the real deal, James. I mean, I even got the packet of crackers. I got some cheese to sprinkle on it. So before Building Wealth Live tonight at 7 p.m. Central, 8 Eastern. Ken's going to load up on beans. Is that the best idea though? This is a terrible idea. As George said to her, and I quote, he goes, that's a lot of fiber for a guy his age. Only because of your age. I know.

George loves to poke fun at my age. But anyway, thank you for the skyline, Chili. That was very sweet. And I accept all kinds of gifts. I can be bought. No question about it. All right. Back to the phones we go.

888-825-5225. Taylor's in Springfield, Missouri. Taylor, how can we help? Hello, Taylor. Yes, hello. Sorry, cut to nothing. I guess you might cut out. Ken, I was going to call in for your advice, but after hearing that bit on chili, I don't know if I'm so sure. what what my vice is bad because i like chili well skyline chili oh i got a hater over in missouri wow yeah mr missouri taking shots at the cincy folks that's going to cause a ruckus i'm going to tell you something it's good chili but anyway how can I help you? Well, let's see. I'm a white-collar professional, I guess you'd say. I have done basically the opposite of what you suggested.

I work from home. I'm a machine learning engineer and make great money, but the job isn't really doing it for me anymore. And so I've been looking at the trades, and I've pretty much settled on wanting to be a plumber. Nice. And, yeah, well, parts of it, yes. But what I'd like to know is if you have advice first on how to get a mindset right for making that transition, and then secondly, and this might be more of a George question,

it's going to represent a significant pay cut as I go in for, you know, working through the licensing. How long will it be a pay cut? Because I'm guessing there's a ladder for you to get back up to where you are, and potentially if you own your own business, do very, very well. Well, I would have to own my own business to approach where I am right now. What are you making right now? $150. Are you in a financial situation where you have no debt and you, you know,

get great savings with an emergency fund? You've invested well. What's that look like? Great savings. Been crushing it with retirement. I've always been that kind of max out my 401k. Good man. How old are you? 34. So you can absorb this without life sucking, correct? Yeah. Well, yeah. And I intentionally got a, I moved into a house with a low house payment. Okay. So this is not a financial issue.

This is a life values, quality of life issue. And your soul's being sucked into the computer monitor, sounds like to me. And you've now said, I want to be a plumber. And the reason I like this is because I love seeing somebody go from white collar to what's called blue collar. I love the trades because the trades have been just poo-pooed for decades as a less than lifestyle. But the fact of the matter is you can win in the trades. you can start a business and crush it and be a job provider in the trades. The ceiling for you is really, really high at 34. And so the only confirmation question I want to ask you is what made you choose being a plumber? When I've done little bits of plumbing work, I've just really enjoyed it.

What do you enjoy about it? Well, working with my hands, solving problems, both of those things. I mean, I love problem solving. There you go. And not to mention, there's a real nice personal reward when you show up to the Coleman house and my wife meets you at the front door and she goes, thank God for you. Ken's just, he's useless when it comes to this stuff. And we've got a clog over here or we've got a leak and you are a hero. Like you are her hero and you are my hero in that moment. And that's really rewarding, isn't it? It is. Those are the parts of my current job that I really find the most satisfaction in

is when I've helped someone else do something. So were you calling for confirmation that this is not a silly idea? You know, I think probably. I know you were. Well, Taylor, I think the part that is hard for you grappling with is going from 150 to to 60 temporarily it doesn't add up psychologically george no and that's okay and it's honestly why we recommend you do the ramsay baby steps because then you don't have to work for that paycheck you can go work somewhere for 75 and be fulfilled

and still have a great life and retire with dignity. So it's not about this number that has to keep going up. It's about your purpose, and you're stepping into that with great clarity and in a great financial spot. Are friends and family supportive of this, or are they questioning you? You know, they've questioned about everything we've made over the last 10 years, and then they had to eat it. Oh, good. Oh, good. Oh, fantastic. I like that.

So it feels like that's not holding you back. No. Yeah, you know what? And they always end up being supportive anyway. Like I said, I'm going to remind you that I do think that there's no ceiling for you, or if there is a ceiling, it's really high for your earning potential. It's going to take some time to build back. But the quality of life, and as George said, and I got to actually, I really want to applaud Taylor, George, and you

nailed it. Having financial peace allows you the margin to do this thing, to actually get up and not work for a paycheck, but to work on purpose. This is why I wrote the book From Paycheck to Purpose. This is the actual example of a guy going, hey, I want to do something that matters to me, something that I enjoy. And he's not strapped. I want to send him a copy of that book, From Paycheck to Purpose. I would like to do this because I think it'll give him some clarity, some tactical things to work through and some hope along this crazy transition. That is my gift to you. You read it for confirmation.

And just to give you that confidence, because there are going to be some days, and this is important to talk about, there are going to be some days where you begin to have some doubts. And you start to go, I can't believe I took this big of a pay cut. Or, man, this is really hard. And I want everybody to hear this, George. If you are experiencing fear and doubt right now, I want to encourage you that the only people that experience fear and doubt are the people that are thinking about

moving forward or the people that are moving forward. In other words, the people who sit on the bleachers of life watching everybody else live, they don't ever experience fear and doubt. They're trying not to choke on the popcorn, and the rest of us are living. And so if you're experiencing fear and doubt, that is a good sign that you are longing for something more, that you are moving towards something more, and that's all it is. You're never going to remove fear and doubt. You can overcome it, George, but you cannot remove it. And again, I'm going to tell you, that also applies not just to work

and living on purpose. It applies to the baby steps, to'm going to tell you that also applies not just to work and living on purpose. It applies to the baby steps, to money, to getting out of debt. There's going to be some days in the middle of the baby steps. You're like, I don't think we're ever going to get through this. And as you step into it, you gain a little bit of confidence and a little bit more, and then you see the progress and all of a sudden you get there. It's amazing. Yeah, it works. It works. You know, if if you stay with it if you stick with it you'll get there but I guarantee you this

if you quit you're never gonna get there so do not quit George Campbell I'm not gonna quit you pal appreciate that friends for life good hour

there it is hey I want to thank James and everybody in the booth for keeping us on the air to you America this is your show thank you for being with us you've got this

and we're going to walk with you. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey folks, Ken Coleman here. Did you know The Ramsey Show is one of the most popular podcasts in the world? Get your daily dose of advice on life and money. Check out all of our shows from The Ramsey Network wherever you listen to podcasts.