The Ramsey Show - App - Put Brakes in Your Life When You Have a Spending Problem (Hour 1)

Episode Date: July 1, 2020

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. My co-host today on the Dave Ramsey Show, Ramsey personality Dr. John Deloney, will be answering your questions about your life and your money. Dr. Deloney specializes in helping you with your relational IQ. And that could be your relation with the person in the mirror, your spouse, your crazy parents, or whatever else is going on. Or whoever else.

Or whoever else is going on. Whatever's happening. So we're talking about your life and your money. It's what we do around here and always have done, and so we're going to do it together today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Pat starts us off in Colorado. Hey, Pat, what's up? How's it going, gentlemen? Thank you so much for having me on the show. How are you? Better than I deserve. How can we help? So I have a question, and I hope I can explain it well, but I'm currently 19 years old, and

I'm a longtime listener, so I've been able to incorporate a lot of good financial practices into my life, so I want to thank you for that. But the problem I am having is with the foundation of everything. So specifically, I've seen the struggle understanding and appreciating the value of money. And overall, my goal is to become a much more frugal person. So I was wondering if you have any advice on how I can reach that goal. Well, the first thing that occurs to me is if you're 19 years old and ask that question, you ain't struggling much. No, I'm not.

Yeah, what does struggling mean? Help me with that. i don't even understand the question struggling with to appreciate money or the value of money i mean you you got your you got your crap together and you're asking that question which puts you ahead of 59 year olds much less 19 year olds right well i just i just um for example, I make big purchases without thinking much of it. And one thing I've been doing more is trying to use cash. So I feel the pain when I'm paying something. But overall, and my dad, like, criticizes me for this a lot, but I just don't seem to really understand just the value of money.

So I was wondering how I can become a much more frugal person and not spend as much on stupid items and money are you spending um my money and um my parents money sometimes so what's what's a big dumb purchase well i like for example i might go buy an 800 motorcycle helmet when i don't really need that i might go buy 300 motorcycle gloves when i don't really need that. I might go buy $300 motorcycle gloves when I don't need that. Just big purchases that I don't need, I'm making. I go get Red Bulls every day, and that's $2. So over time, you know, that adds up, and I just don't want to be like that anymore. Okay. Well, a couple things come to mind. Because I struggle with the exact same thing. That's why God makes me teach this every day.

And so my name is Dave, and I like stuff. Hi, Dave. And so I'm in my little group here. And so one thing is that if I have a goal that I'm aiming at, and I really care about that goal, and it has a dollar amount attached to it, then I say, well, those gloves are keeping me from that goal. That helmet's keeping me from that goal. So it will short circuit my brain and tell my brain, no, I like the goal better than I like the gloves.

Okay. So you need to have a target that you're aiming for that matters to you a lot. The second thing is you need a written game plan called a budget. And then if it's not in the budget, that also activates your brain and says, no, I haven't. Back when I was sane three hours ago and I wrote all this down before I lost my mind, I said to myself, self, I don't want to do this. And so I'm going to stick to my sane self's suggestion that i wrote down in the budget right before you before you went crazy land and you go okay it's or you're

you put it in the budget it is consistent with the goal and then you buy it without regret there's nothing inherently wrong with the purchases you made. The biggest problem is you felt out of control when you did it. Right. And, Pat, I put breaks in my life. I'm not where Dave's at, so I unhook things. Like, I may go through a season where I take my debit card off of Amazon. Or I may, I've had a season in the past where I gave my debit card to my wife and I just kept cash in my wallet. And when that cash was gone, that cash was gone. And that helped me learn

to grow breaks of my own. And now I, I, I don't struggle with that as much anymore. Right? Yeah. Cause sometimes it's like a Sabbath. That's right. You have to take a rest break. And then when you come back, you're recharged to be able to have that, the self-control. Right. Which is what we're looking for here. And I guess the last thing that I have done that helped me with it, probably more than the budget or having a goal, was as a person of faith, as a Christian, I had a real deep experience with understanding that it's not my money. I'm managing God's money.

And so then I can ask myself, would the owner of the money be okay with the manager doing this with it? And that changes my thing, which, by the way, that still includes motorcycle helmets. There's nothing wrong with that because God, you know, he's crazy about us. And if we being evil know how to give our kids good gifts, how much more so our Father in Heaven. And abundant living and all of that stuff. And it's not prosperity gospel, but it is this idea that Christians have to live in a cave, collect Lent, and only come out on triple coupon Thursday. Or you've lost your salvation.

It's absolute BS. Okay? That's just ridiculous. And so, you know, God wants you to have some things, but he also wants you to save money and he wants you to be outrageously generous. Those are all in Scripture, his instruction book to you. And so the manager, me, is managing for the owner according to the manual, the instruction, which means I'm going to take care of my own household.

I'm going to enjoy some things. I'm going to save in the house of the wise or stores of choice food and oil. I'm going to be outrageously generous. God loves an outrageous giver. That's a big deal. He loves a hilarious giver. All through Scripture. So if you're doing all of those things and you've

got some rhythm but you're doing them through the lens of my money it takes on a different tenor than if you say okay this is not mine if i was just managing money for john deloney right and you said okay these are the rules you need to enjoy some of it you need to save some of it and you need to give some of it and then i to save some of it, and you need to give some of it. And then I can put that instruction, and I have the paradigm of I've got to report back to the owner. Right. I'm accountable to the owner for my behaviors with his stuff. There you go. It's a fiduciary responsibility.

It's a trust relationship. And so that changes the way I think about it. And so then the heating and air goes out on the house. Is it okay with God if I fix the heating and air on my house? Yeah, because he said take care of your own household. My kids live in there. My grandbabies live in there. My shih tzu lives in there who's really concerned about air conditioning.

And so, you know, all that. So it sounds like the foundation of that is intentionality. Yeah. And Pat mentioned something that, you you know he's making these big purchases feels like they're not intentional then red bulls and then this and then this and i wonder if his dad is speaking into him saying you're acting like a child a teenager child it's a maternal it's a maturity maturity issue that's right and you know and it doesn't have to do with being 19 i mean i make 59 year olds that are more out of control than he is that's exactly right

he's asking the questions He's asking the questions. He's asking the questions and that's good. Yeah. First, first thing, 90% of solving the problems, realizing there is one. Be intentional.

You're there. Intentional. There you go. Dr. John Deloney, my cohost, Ramsey personality. This,

this day on the Dave Ramsey show. I heard a statistic recently that absolutely blew my mind. 43% of Americans are not protecting their loved ones with life insurance. This drives me crazy, people. What are you thinking? Taking care of your family has to be a top priority. Think about it. If you died today, would you be the hero by making sure that your family had the money necessary to carry on their life without struggle and hardship? Would they be able to pay the bills and plan for the future? That's what term life insurance is all about. Regardless of where you are in the baby steps, you've got to make this a top priority. Have I gotten my point across yet? That's why I talk about Zander Insurance every day. They keep it

simple and make sure they find you the best rates out there. Zander will do their job to find you the best rates and make sure you're served like I expect. But you have to take the first step. Go to zander.com or call 800-356-4282. my co-host today on the dave ramsey show ramsey personality dr john deloney be sure to check out his upcoming article on daveramsey.com the truth about anxiety also jump on his youtube page he's put several things about the on there like everything you know about anxiety is wrong, painful and hopeful conversations about racism. Let's talk about your stress levels. That's a couple of them. And tens of thousands of you visiting that page already, and John's just getting going. So thanks for that. We appreciate the support. Appreciate you checking out. And if you want to send him a question, you can do that. Ask John at RamseySolutions.com.

We're getting some great questions from all over the country. Tons of them, and it's so good. Very cool. Keep sending them. Also, we're going to be doing a millionaire theme hour soon. If you are a net worth millionaire, which is the only kind of millionaire there is, your net worth, your assets minus your liabilities what you own minus what you owe equals a million dollars or greater than you are by definition a millionaire i don't care

how you feel it's a math thing if you would tell us your story of how you got that you hit the lottery you inherited it at all or you've worked like a dog for 30 years i don't whatever your story is we want to hear it email kelly at dave on air one word no spaces no dashes dave on air at dave ramsey.com and put millionaire theme hour in the subject line tell us a little bit about your story she'll get you set up to be one of our callers because we want to talk to real millionaires on a millionaire theme hour which was the genesis for the whole research project that resulted in the largest research project on millionaires ever done in North America. It resulted in a number one bestselling book with Chris Hogan called Everyday Millionaires. So up next is going to be Christopher in Tennessee. Hey, Christopher, how are you?

Hey, how's it going? I appreciate you taking my call. Sure, man. What's up? So I just wanted to get your opinion on what was a better retirement plan. I'm 23 and I'm in baby step six. And my house will be paid off in the next year and a half to two years. Wow.

And I was wondering what would be the better plan. Would it be to just continue to invest my 15% or after my house is paid for, pay cash for rentals and eventually have 10 to 20 rental houses and rely on cash flow and retirement from rent. Yeah, baby step four somewhat goes away or is accelerated or expanded when you get to baby step seven. So when you're at seven, which is your house is paid off, then it's build wealth and be outregistered generous is baby step seven. So that means you would max out whatever retirement planning you wanted to do or investing you wanted to do. I would continue to put at least 15% into your mutual funds, into your Roth IRA or your company retirement plan.

But above that, if you didn't want to do any more there and you want to start saving to pay cash for real estate, that's certainly okay. Okay, I see. It just depends there and you want to start saving to pay cash for real estate that's certainly okay okay i see um just depends on what you want right well i would love to do real estate my parents did real estate the whole time i was growing up and i loved it i would love to get involved with real estate um but if it's wiser to just you know to max out my retirement plans no 401k and stuff like that no it's. I just want to do it wiser. Mutual funds pay a smaller rate of return than good investment real estate does, but they have no hassle compared. Like I had to evict a tenant this week. I see.

I don't have to do that with mutual funds. Okay. So, I mean, you don't have to do that with mutual funds. Okay. So, I mean, you don't have to deal with the crazy, right? So you just look at the mailbox or look at the email coming in and tells you what your balance is. But you make less. So a well-purchased, well-managed investment property will make you a greater rate of return, but it has more hassle. But you grew up in a real estate family like I did. You like real estate family like i did you like real estate um my portfolio

is uh way more real estate than it is mutual funds i've got um a lot in both by my standards from growing up in antioch tennessee but way a lot in real estate um i mean when you consider the building we're sitting in is 70 million dollars so um but you know i got a lot in real estate so there's an old an old wife's tale an old line dave that i've heard that is um if you have to pick between investing in the markets or retirement programs or real estate the line is um invest in dirt because they stopped making that a long time ago is that a truthful statement or is it a value statement no it's just a uh there's a lot of dirt okay go to north dakota okay there's a lot of dirt right okay so that's yeah yeah they stopped making it

but there's a plentiful supply and besides that dirt itself doesn't give you a rate of return there you go there's very few pieces of farmland that, unless you are a farmer and farming it, that actually give you the kind of rate of return that an office building will, an apartment, a rental real estate will. So what you're looking for is income-producing real estate. Not just sitting on it, not just a escalating value. I've got a nice farm that I bought just to hold the earth together kind of thing, but I had no expectation that it was going to give me a huge rate of return.

I got a great buy on the acreage, and it has gone up considerably in value. But I didn't really have a lot of hope when I bought it that that was going to do it. But when I buy an office building or we buy even a single-family rental property, we expect, we're running the numbers, expecting that thing to give us a cash-on-cash rate of return, and then, of course, a shelter, and, of course, the increase in value. We're going to get three rates of return on it, and we expect that. But the concept of, you know, they keep making houses, and there's a lot of dirt. So it's not like a short supply of real estate.

Right. So it's going to shoot up. But real estate is an imperfect market, meaning that in mutual funds, bazillions of people have the same pieces of information to make the exact same decision. And a limited number of people, comparatively, have information about this piece of real estate. So you can slip up on a deal on a piece of real estate way more often than you can on a mutual fund. There you go. You're pretty much just going to pay for the mutual fund.

It's going to go up. Okay. You don't want to do that in real estate. You want to buy real estate, be low market, pay cash for it. So he's doing good stuff there. Love it. Good stuff. Bethany is with us, and Bethany is in Tennessee.

Hi, Bethany. How are you? I'm okay. I'm a little nervous. It's okay. We've never lost a patient. How can we help? Well, we are on Baby Step 3, and we are renting cheaply from my husband's mom.

And we have kind of a rocky relationship with them because of boundary issues. And we are currently going to be living here for about two and a half years while my husband goes to college. So I was wondering how I could deal with my anger and resentment now so that in the later years I don't end up exploding and hurting my marriage. Who are you angry and resentful towards? A little bit of everyone that I'm stuck in this place. So it's not a good place? I don't want to aim it. Well, the physical place is fine, but the mental place, it's kind of rough because I'm far away from my family. It's their old family home.

So when they come over to work on it, they feel very, very opinionated about it. They own it. Yes, they do. Why would they not be opinionated about it? I don't know. Whether opinionated about your housekeeping, your cooking skills, your relationship with your husband, or the fact you painted the walls in a house that you don't own.

My cooking and cleaning skills. Okay. So why do you have to live here? I know you get a good deal on it. Something I often ask people is, what's the total cost? Well, okay. This is expensive. My husband wants to go into being a police officer,

and so he's currently working as a security guard at the temporary job because he had to drop out of the academy for personal reasons for a little bit. I was pregnant at the time. And we currently don't really make enough to be saving money towards our emergency fund and paying a normal rent. So we had agreed that we would stay here, even though I'm not happy here, for two and a half years. Okay, I'll tell you what, you hang on. We're going to bring you back from this break And John will give you a good thorough answer

I don't want to try to answer something this deep in 10 seconds So hang with us Dr. John Deloney, my co-host today Here on the Dave Ramsey Show Thank you. Dr. John Deloney, my co-host today on the Dave Ramsey Show. We're talking with Bethany in Tennessee. She's on her in-laws' property living in their rental house, their old family home. And they come over and tell her how to cook and how to clean. She didn't like that.

She's getting angry about it. And her husband's taking a job as security guard because he's no longer in the police academy. And so they're stuck there for two and a half years in her mind. Is that a fair summary of what you told us? Yes. Okay. How old are you? I'm 22, and my husband is 26.

How long have you been married? Two years. Where's your family? My family is just 30 minutes into the country side. So they're not that far? No, not really. Okay. I thought you moved from Minnesota or something the way you were talking.

No. Do you have little ones in the house? I have a 16-month-old daughter. So here's a couple of thoughts I had during the break. And let me know if this resonates with you. First and foremost, you are 22. You're relatively new to marriage, and you've got a little one. Nothing in your life is going to feel stable.

Nothing's going to feel like you think it's supposed to or the picture you had in your head of when you get married and you've got a new baby. It all feels messier and clunkier and wonkier than it is this stage is a pain in the butt it's just it's awful um and it's beautiful and it's wonderful and it's a wreck yeah it's a pain in the butt and you are living in somebody else's house who because you're living in somebody else's house by default they get a vote into how their house looks. And, um, and then they're going to take advantage of that, um, of that vote. And they're going to, uh, dump that into you, how you're raising their grandkid and

what your decor looks like and how you're cooking all things they shouldn't speak into. But because you live in their house, they're going to feel entitled to do that. Um, and then you mentioned something earlier about your husband having a part-time job. There's a lot. I come from the home of a police officer. There's a lot of ways into the academy. A lot of academies across the country are starving for good applicants. And so it may be that working part-time as a security guard is not the best thing for you guys right now

because there's going to be a cost more than the dollar amount. Go ahead. Yes. He's actually working full-time as a security officer right now. My point is he may need to go make more money. And he may need to do something that in his head is going to be different, but it's still going to get him to the police academy. And the thing that the most concerning thing is you already feeling this baggage of anger, resentment. And so you've probably heard this.

I'm going to repeat this a hundred times over. But all resentment is, is like poisoning yourself and hoping somebody else is going to die. And you are carrying around bricks all day that do nothing but weigh you down. And so what I'm going to suggest to you is to, number one, get with somebody, whether it's a friend, someone who's older and wiser and who's been married and who's got kids and who's been through this road before ahead of you. Sit down with them and talk to them, and they can give you some wisdom on how to put some of these bricks down. And if it's heavier than that, then get with a professional, find somebody, and then sit down and talk values and talk long-term and short-term with your husband. And I know sometimes guys get a plan in their head, and this is the way this is going to be, this is the way it's going to be.

But if you're hurting to the point that you sound like you're hurting, you need to have a values conversation with your husband because I know the rent is cheap i've had great opportunities where rent is cheap that costs me part of my soul on the back end and it's just not worth it so here's the deal um this is just an old guy talking dr john's a professional okay um move you need to move and the reason you need to move is your husband needs to make a choice at this stage of his marriage between his mommy and his wife you need to move and uh right now his mommy is way too much in this picture and um so you need to move and that's your that's a good thing for your husband to do in his character in his manhood

to make a choice and say i still love my mommy she'll always be my mommy and her chocolate chip cookies may always be better than yours but she's not my wife and she's not between us and that's exactly what's going on here is he is allowing this because it doesn't feel weird to him that she's bossy because she's his mommy. And you need to move. That's all God talking. Did I mess up, Mom? No, that's a more direct line than my psychobabble. So well done.

Well done. I like to make loop-de-loops and people feel good. So, yeah, you got there quick. It's all God. I like to make loop-de-loops and people feel good. So, yeah, you got there quick. This whole guy. I'm just saying. I mean. Hey, there's sometimes a club is better than a hug. So, yeah, the deal is.

It's not a club. No, it's not. It's the truth. We can't live here because I value my relationship with my wife so much. Right. That we can't live here. That's a manhood statement. Right. And it's not going to get better.

It's going to get worse. You cannot teach this woman boundaries. You're going to have to give some distance. That's right. Because this chick is used to bossing everybody around. I know her. I know her. Because there's a little bit of her inside of me.

All right. I got grown kids and thank goodness we've got fairly healthy boundaries right in the ramsey family so it's not unusual for one of my kids spouses to say we're not coming to lake house this weekend we need some space we don't all have to be on top of each other every weekend at the lake house. That's this coming weekend, by the way. And that's cool. And I've got to get cool with that. Because it's real comfortable for my kids and me to all be in there together. But it's the outlaws. It's harder for them to be all piled on top of each other relationally and go, you know, that kid's misbehaving and that one's doing that and somebody didn't clean the sink and, you know, all that crap that goes on

that you give somebody the side eye, right? Yep. And that happens in any set of relationships, and it takes a lot of work to keep those healthy boundaries inside of every player, and mama ain't doing any work in this story. That's right. She's doing no work at this. I have to work at it. That's right. That's doing no work at this. I have to work at it.

That's right. That's why I know her. Okay, so we have the chance to change America right now, Dave. We've spoken into the young couple, and I'll pretend I'm them, that they've got to circle up, look each other in the eye,

make some hard decisions, make some hard boundary calls right now. Then they're going to have to get on the phone, and they're going to have to say we're not coming to the lake house this weekend. They're going to have to get on the phone and they're going to have to say, we're not coming to the lake house this weekend. They're going to have to get on the phone and say, we're moving. So as the recipient of that call, what's the first thing that goes through your heart? And what do you tell the millions of parents who are still living vicariously through their

25 or 35 year old kids across the country when they say, I can't come to the lake house this weekend or worse? Or no, we're going to move out. We're going to move out of your room. More honestly, we're not coming because we don't want to. Yeah. What do you tell that group of adults in your age bracket? Well, I mean, as far as that individual reaction, okay, the first thing that happens inside of you is it hurts your feelings.

Right. And you just need to think that. What? It's fair. I would like to have all my kids this weekend. And so there's a little bit of your fear. But then you have to go, oh, wait a minute. I'm not a freaking four-year-old.

I have to actually, you know, I don't get to react to every little feeling that I have. I actually have a longer-term goal with a high-quality relationship, which involves letting them have their dignity to make their own decisions. And you've trained them for years to do that to accomplish and then i'm now shocked that they're doing that right you know so um but that's exactly what happens you know you think about it when your friend just says when your friend says we're not coming to dinner okay and um you know what happens is you go well why not right that's what happens to anybody there's a sense a little tiny piece of rejection and if you if you get all four-year-oldish about it every time you do that then you hurt the

dignity of the long-term relationship because you're not respecting that other person to be an entity that's right there's somebody that's that is an extension of my self-esteem there's someone who's an extension of my well-being right daniel and allison have been married two years um all Allison's parents are in Kansas City. They're wonderful people. She's a wonderful girl. They're incredible.

They're incredible. But that young couple has been married two years. I've got to love them enough to give them a little room. That's right. They're newlyweds still. They've got to have

a little room. And they've got to figure out... Even though I would just keep them right here. They've got to figure out how to together have joint courage to say, we're not coming to Thanksgiving this year. We're going to do Christmas like this. We're going to do Thanksgiving with you next year, this year.

And then I have to go bite my little quivering little lip and, you know, be a grown up. Because I didn't want to be that parent that was always a jerk about Thanksgiving. You know? And so I'm getting ready to be. For just a second there, I was getting ready to pay. And I go, no, that's not it. Dave, we are solving America's problems. I love the long-term more than I like the short-term feeling.

We are solving America's problems, David Ramsey. If you can solve Thanksgiving, you've done it, man. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today on the Dave Ramsey Show. You can now download the Ramsey Personality is my co-host today on the Dave Ramsey Show. You can now download the Ramsey Network app. If you didn't know, there is a whole Ramsey Network. Rachel Cruz, Ken Coleman, Christy Wright, Entree Leadership, Chris Hogan, Dave Ramsey Show, The Borrowed Future Podcast. They're all in one place. And any other things that we were to launch would be there as well. The Ramsey Network app is free, and you don't struggle to find one of us.

You can just click on your Ramsey Network app, and it's all right there, and you can control it. We've completely updated this thing. It's a new iteration, and the reviews have been rave. So check it out. All right, Ryan's in Massachusetts. Hi, Ryan. How are you? Good afternoon, gentlemen. Thank you for taking my call. I appreciate it. Sure, what's up? My question is, do I have too much in my reserves? So I don't know if I am too focused on savings and should I be focused on other areas. You have more than six months of expenses? I do, actually.

Why? And the reason why I have that is because I'm a consultant. I do IT recruiting, but as a consultant. So my job is not as steady as a full-time job. You know, it's one day here, next day I could be let go. So my mindset was... What is the chances you're going to be gone six months without an income? Zero?

That's a great question, and probably very slim to none. Yeah, so six months is fine. Anything above that I would put towards my other goals. And I was wondering, in a sense, where my other goals right now, what we do is me and my wife, we put 10% of our paychecks into our 401ks, and then we also have a, we've got our IRAs and other various tools that we are putting our money towards as well. Are you debt-free other than your home? Yes, we are.

Okay, cool. That's what we call Baby Step 2. Baby Step 3 is the six months. Baby Step 4 is 15% of your household income going into retirement. So if you add up those IRAs and the 10% you're doing over at the other, does that equal 15%? If it does, you've hit baby step four. I wouldn't do more than that. Baby step five, as you say, for kids' college, if that's applicable.

If you don't have kids, you move on to six and pay off the house. And so I would limit my – I would take anything above six months, throw it at the house or the kids' college, or some of both, whichever one you want to do. I would limit my investing to 15% of my household income until I got my house paid off. And I'd throw everything else at the house and just rock it that way. Lori is in Kentucky. Lori, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show.

How can Dr. John and I help? Hi, guys. How are you? It's so good to be talking to you. You too. What's up? Thank you. So I'm listening to you guys religiously for several months now. You too. What's up? three years and I think it'd be beneficial to start going again. But, um, you know, my, my insurance has a $30 copay per visit. If I see a psychologist, that's still like an extra 60 to

120 bucks a month, probably, um, that I'd be spending on that instead of paying off my debt. What's your household advice? Um, I make about 72,000 a year. Okay. And what do you, what do you want to still work on in therapy? Yeah. What do you want to go to counseling for? Sure. So I have some lingering issues from the divorce still that I see play out in my life still today and in relationships and that and anxiety are the main two things. What are they? Trust issues, fear of being left in a relationship, things like that, because I didn't instigate my divorce. It was my ex that did. So those are the two main things off the top of my head.

So when somebody can articulate, here's my challenges, that's one of the cornerstones of what counseling does for us, is it helps us rake the yard and helps us move all the soil and the mess out of the way so we can actually get a snapshot, a picture of what's going on in our heart and head you're able just to articulate it for me so what would a counselor do and by the way i'm a huge proponent of going to therapy what would a counselor do that a close friend that you cultivate relationship with that you're vulnerable with or a mentor from your local church or in your community what would they do for you that they wouldn't because you've identified the core issues somebody somebody left you high and dry totally hosed you and now you don't know how to trust

them but more importantly you don't want to trust yourself so you articulated that that sets off all of your internal fear alarms which is real your disconnection alarms which is what we've we've decided to turn into a diagnosis and make a medical issue called anxiety, right? And then you just get anxious for a while, and that makes you depressed. So you've laid all that out for me. What is a counselor going to give you that a close, vulnerable friend won't? I think I'm probably looking for like coping mechanisms. So, you know, when these issues pop up in my daily life, like things that I can do to, you know, kind of retrain my brain and things like that. So I don't think the way that I think the negativity that I think.

This seems more beneficial to me from like a medical professional than just, you know, chit chatting with a friend about it and getting, you know, kind of basic advice from a friend like that. I think that's really like the core of what I'm looking for. What is your academic training in? What's your degree in? I have a Bachelor of Science in Communication. Okay. Because you're completely – I'm thinking you need to give therapy. Yeah.

You got this so wrapped up. I mean, you sound like somebody does this for a living right thank you to be fair i have a lot of good friends in my life who have given me a lot of good advice it's just not getting me what i need out of it you know so that's why i mean you really are able to articulate it at an amazing level right thank you so i'm gonna i'm gonna tell you two hard things um and you can disagree with me and you can say, Deloney, I think you're an idiot. And I'll say, hey, you got what you paid for. So the first thing is this. You're going to have to decide. You're going to have to look in the mirror, put both hands on your bathroom counter, and you're going to have to look in the mirror. And you're going to have to say, Lori, I'm moving

on. And I'm going to not make anxiety. I'm not going to make trust issues my identity. I'm moving on and I'm going to not make anxiety I'm not going to make trust issues my identity I'm not going to make that who I am I am going to become x and then you're going to have to get somebody in your life to walk alongside you and you can pay for that there's a million people out there that will take your money as Dave pointed out you are articulate you are smart you're going to have to decide that this is an identity because this isn't a task thing this isn't a series of skills things you know those skills you know how to breathe through when you get anxious you know how to call somebody who's close to you when the alarms are going off you know those things and so if you want to pay somebody to go do that that's going to be part two of this question you make 72 000 bucks a year

if you need to invest in your mental health it's foolish absolutely not to absolutely here john let me ask you about this and see if laurie i'm just playing i'm learning here um in my mind i worry about um not laurie as much but just in general that sometimes people like they just want to hang out with a counselor and they just go year after year after year after year and don't seem to get any better. And so if I were Lori, I would say, okay, I'm going to budget 10 sessions, and I'm going to be done. Right. But the goal being that I've got the rest of the tools in my belt to be done.

Right. Or I'm going to budget whatever number of sessions. But it's not – this is not – you don't want to do this year after year after year after year. No. So, yeah, Lori, you're going to go to a counselor, and you're going to say, you're going to go to a psychologist, you're going to find a marriage and family therapist, and you're going to say, here's the deal. I know exactly what it is.

I know here's the challenges. You've got 10 sessions to walk me out. That's exactly right. Or whatever. And I want a series of tasks and skills that you're going to teach me, we're going to do this together, and then I'm out. And if they say, well, you know, then you go to the next counselor. And there's going to be somebody

who's ethical. You have to go back to the chiropractor every month for the rest of my life. No, thank you. You don't. You're supposed to freaking heal me. That's right. And healing is both cracking my back and teaching me the stretches and the strength building tools that I don't have to see you again. So the greatest counselor I ever went to when I

sat down, her first statement to me is, my goal with you is to work myself out of a job. There you go. And I said, that's the person I want to see. That's what I'm after. And, yeah, this is because the thing is there's always going to be pain associated with this past event. Always.

It just should be diminishing and it should be that you have the tools to work it. And that's what your community should be for. Yeah. So make sure you're plugged into a good church as well and maybe get a lady that's 10 years older than you, 20 years older than you, that's as articulate and bright as you are to talk this through with as well. But yeah, I think I would go. But I would just put a limit on it and say we're going to be done after this. And in your own mind and certainly in the mind of the council.

Investing in your heart is never a bad ROI. Exactly. That puts us out of the Dave Ramsey Show in the books. This is James Childs, producer of the Dave Ramsey Show. Did you know you can now listen to the Dave Ramsey Show on Pandora and Spotify? For all the ways to watch and listen, check out our show page at DaveRamsey.com slash show.