The Ramsey Show - App - Quit Beating Yourself Up for Your Money Mistakes

Episode Date: November 13, 2024

From the Ramsey Network, this is The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Campbell, joined by my my good friend Dr. John Deloney, and we're taking your calls at 888-825-5225. You jump in, we'll talk about your life and your money, and hopefully if we do our jobs, we'll give you the right next step to take. Calvin is up first in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Calvin, welcome to The Ramsey Show.

You with us? Hey. How can we help? So I am doing a lot of research on you guys and the whole Ramsey method. Be careful. Do what now? I just said be careful. I'm just kidding around.

I'm joshing. What are you doing research for? Well, so right now, I want to be financially free. I'm a Christian. I'm very full in depth with that money is the happiness or basically the love of money is the root of all evil. But money itself is not evil. I come from a family where

my parents had a very large income, but they did not use it correctly at all. They didn't manage it well, and they were in debt for practically their whole life. I think they just got in debt last year. And now that I'm about to be married, I'm married to a beautiful family where they have zero debt, and now that I'm about to be married, um, I'm married to, into a beautiful,

beautiful family where they have zero debt and they have a really well income and they are doing really well off. And so my fiance is used to that lifestyle and I'm used to the other lifestyle. Now the current job I am right now, um, I'm a general manager of a Chick-fil-A, um, and more in Southeast Oklahoma. And I make pretty good living for 25. I actually moved from South Georgia to pursue this career. And with both of us put together, we'll probably make roughly around $130,000 a year for us being a single mid-bed. That is pretty outstanding for most people around the area. And the reason I'm doing research is I know we can set a lot of money back to be financially free

within probably less than 10 years. What does financially free mean for you? Financially free means for me it's not worrying about anything. Not worrying about any debts. Not worrying about payments. Not worrying just... So let's get crystal clear on what the goal

is. Is it I want to be debt-free, including my house? I mean, that could be one of our goals, yes. What are you aiming for? I'm aiming for to be financially privileged to give generously without having to think about it. Okay. So a challenge you're going to have psychologically speaking is not being very specific and acknowledging when you cross certain thresholds and then checking yourself in your new marriage or five years from now, your five-year-old marriage and saying, okay, let's re-examine these goals. Let's re-examine how these goals feel to us because what you're going to do based on what you're doing right now is you're chasing a feeling and you are going to be a lonely miserable guy with 10 million dollars you're going to be an operator making a million bucks a year and you're going to

be miserable to be around because you're chasing how something's going to feel i'd much rather you say um i want to be able to tip really well every time we go out to eat. Cool. I want to be able to save for my kid's college and not worry about it and possibly start a scholarship for somebody else in our neighborhood. Cool. So be specific with us. What does freedom feel like for you? I mean, what is it tangibly?

What is it? Freedom itself? Well, you're saying 10 years. So at 35 years old, let's fast forward. Calvin is debt-free, including no mortgage payment. That's a good feeling. And then what? Do you want to be able to retire because you have $2 million in a nest egg?

That's the kind of specificity that will help us help you. Or I can tip at Waffle any number and it doesn't i don't worry about it dave ramsey could give me a million dollars in cash and he wouldn't notice it so like be specific i guess the specific answers on what i'm looking for, or what I'm trying to say is that I want to be able to invest my money in any way, shape, or form. And to be even more specific is to not having to worry about my family, or most of my wife having to work and being in a traditional home. Well, you'll be there. I mean, you're talking about getting out of debt.

How much debt do you have? Zero. Okay. So why aren't you living that right now? You guys, you said you're making great money. As long as you live on less than you make, you're on a written budget every month. You and your wife are on the same page.

I don't see why this dream isn't happening today. Well, that's the thing. I've been doing research on how David Ramsey, or David, Mr. Ramsey himself, has set the boundaries. Because, I mean, last night we talked about this um me oh she's not my wife yet but she will be in six months um let's see i'll say obviously i know we're not tied to anything um financially as of right now because technically she is my wife obviously we're both pursuing that now and setting up so when we are married we're not

shocked of finances or anything i'm having this conversation now okay that's why this is a future thing you're you're looking at instead of a present because you're not married yet. So here's what's going to happen. If you want your wife to be able to stay home, you need to budget based off of your personal income. So if you're saying that's 130 grand, how much do we take home after taxes, after investing 15%? Great. We have to learn how to live on that. Can we live off of eight grand a month? I think the answer for your lifestyle is probably going to be yes. And how much can we allocate to giving outside of that? How much can we allocate to getting our house paid off? That's when you start to balance all of these things over a long period of time. If you're asking this magic

question, I've been doing research on Dave Ramsey. That means you've been watching a lot of YouTube and Googling and probably reading Reddit, right? Which for a guy who spent 20 years in the academy, that's not research. That's just Googling, but fine. The core message of Dave Ramsey is live on less than you make and give a whole bunch of money away and enjoy some of your life and be able to exhale when you put your head on your pillow. And if that doesn't resonate with you, that's the core message. If you're like, no, no, no, no, that's too simple. When you get into the nuts and bolts and where to put your money and your funds,

the core Ramsey message is live on less than you make. And when you have access, give. Dave says generously. I like to say recklessly. I like just be able to just give right um and that can be money that can be time that can be in spirit that can be i've got a crazy week this week just 15 minutes ago i asked george hey can you run can you drive the show is what we say and he's like i got you dude like it's a spirit of right it's a it's a ethos it's a way we we enter into the world we exist in the world that's it man and if you and your wife choose for a season for you both to work great and if you

have a dream of marrying somebody you want her to stay at home um you'd love to have your wife stay at home and raise kids that if you are able to have kids um cool great y'all discuss that and but it's this i don't, I'm researching a plant. It's not about researching a plant. Live on less than you make. And George is saying, you make a budget, and you know how much money you make. Budget for it. Spend less than that.

And if you owe debts, pay those off, and then get to zero, and then begin to save, and begin to allocate, and begin to delay gratification until you can pay for it in cash. And right now, Calvin, it sounds like you're running from the existence you had growing up with your parents being broke. That's what it is. And we want you to run to something specific, not just away from, I don't want to be broke like my parents did making good money. That's not going to be you.

You've already decided. That's a choice you get to make. And I have full faith you'll do that. So hang on the line, Calvin. I want to send you my book, Breaking Free from Broke. It'll walk you through that and help you set those very specific money goals so that you can have that financial freedom. This is The Ramsey Show. Rachel, do you ever get these sketchy text messages that are like, hey, you need to update your address and verify so we can get you the

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and it's beautiful. I love these reports. So far, get this, they've reviewed 27,000 listings on my behalf, removed me from 240 data broker sites, and saved me 77 hours of time. It's incredible. Absolutely amazing. And Winston and I now get fewer texts, weird emails, spam calls, all of it. I love it. So you got to be sure to check them out. Ramsey fans get 20% off their annual plans. Just go to joindeleteeme.com slash Ramsey. That comes out to less than nine bucks a month. Super.com slash Ramsey. That comes out to less than nine bucks a month. Super affordable. It's amazing. So again, that's joindelete.me.com slash Ramsey. Make sure to check it out, you guys. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George

Campbell, joined by Dr. John Deloney. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Well, 50 days of Christmas deals are happening right now. Perfect for those looking for great deals without overspending this holiday season. So whether you're shopping for yourself or you're looking for the perfect gift to help someone get their money in order, now is the time to shop. You can get up to 30% off on our best-selling products. Breaking Free from Broke, my book, is on sale for the very first time because it just released this past January. This is a great option for parents to gift young adult kids or if there's someone, you know, this is great for anyone, but if you're in your 20s and 30s, this book's really going to hit. I'll expose the money myths and traps around credit cards,

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Go check them out, ramsaysolutions.com. Or if you're listening on YouTube or podcast, click the link in the description. Richard is in St. Cloud, Minnesota. Up next, what's going on, Richard? Hi, thanks for taking my call. I'm in a place where I've never been before, where I have no debt other than what remains on the principle of my house. I have nothing invested, but I do have my six-month emergency fund.

I've spoken with a smart investor pro, and I'm comfortable with him. But I'm wondering, I can pay off what I have remaining on my house of $79,000 in 30 months, or I can start investing. What would be the point of investing if I can pay off the house? I kind of like the weight of that off of me. That is true, but we also need to realize that compound growth is our best friend when it comes to our NASDAQ, and right now, you don't have a lot of time between you and retirement. When are you looking to retire? I like what I'm doing. And as long as I can do it, I don't plan to retire. But do you have a pension or something? Let's say your body says I can't.

Probably another 10 years. Okay. So at 70 years old, how are you going to pay the bills if you don't have anything invested? With the Social Security. Do you know what that payment will be? Because the average payment is about $1,700. Well, I currently work full-time, well, mostly full-time, and I also receive Social Security disability, and then that will switch to standard Social Security automatically at age 67. And presently, between the disability and income, I have a take-home of $4,500 a month. My house payment is $1,377. As I said, I have $79,000 principal left.

I refied when it was in the basement, so that's at a 1.875 tenure, which if I stayed on course would be paid off in 31. So what if you did this? What if you split the difference and you invested, you have catch-up contributions you can take advantage of at this age, and you began paying off the house? And that way, as you enter retirement, you've got one less expense by paying off the house.

I don't know that we need to go full-on on one of them. Because you're going to free up that payment if you pay it off now, or you'll pay it off in the next 30 months. That's about almost three years. And then beyond that, you'll free up a payment you could then invest. So either way, we're going to make a trade-off here. But I like the plan of you getting into the habit of investing to build that muscle, because for 60 years, we haven't. Right. What did your SmartVestor Pro say? I'm guessing they were on the side of investing.

They were on the side of investing, and I would have the latitude to do a catch-up contribution for 2024 up to the $8,000 mark and then do $8,000 in 2025 as well. I guess my thought is for what investing for a two-and-a-half-year period and what might be built in that or may not be built in that period, but what would be off my shoulders as far as the mortgage for sure in that period. I'm wondering what the nominal difference would be as far as a buildup or loss or a definite payoff. Yeah, you can crunch the numbers with your SmartVestor Pro. I just don't want you to get stuck in this paralysis analysis mode where we don't do anything. Because the best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The next best time is today. And so I'd rather see some action. And if that means making an extra payment

a year on the house right now while aggressively investing, that's fine. And eventually if you go, hey, I got to retire soon. Let's get this house paid off. We can switch gears. What do you think, John? There's not a very clear, you've got to do this or this. The baby steps would say, let's put 15% of our income away in retirement. Anything beyond that, let's throw at the house yeah i man this is tough because i i am probably of of the ramsey personalities i'm probably the one that's most debt allergic like deloney's like get the house paid off yeah so dude i the idea of i'm trying to think of my dad if my dad called and said i'm gonna be 63 and I could have 25,000 bucks in retirement. I've got $0. And you've probably looked up and Googled the social security clock, the same as everybody else in America and

watching that sucker tick and see what's supposed to be in 2030 and 2035. And so I would not hang any hats on social security. At the same time, the thought of being 62 or 63 and having nobody could take my house right i can see that for me personally being a really compelling option my concern with you is social security went didn't yeah. My concern is, as George mentioned, and it sounds like you've had disabilities, it sounds like you've been fighting some battles over the last 20, 30 years, right? Yeah. Well, it's a combination of foolishness, frivolity, medical necessity with my wife who passed, and then a long-term relationship who recently passed.

So now it's just me, and the house is half paid off. And like I said, I've never been at this point before. Yeah. So it feels like I should get out from under it and have that, for sure, 30 months on the other side freedom as opposed to 30 months investing and see. It feels like it would be kind of pennies of possible accumulation and investing as opposed to a real solid asset that's free and clear. I got you on that. No, I mean, I track with you. My gut tells me the same thing. Totally get where you're at. How much could you invest a month right now?

Probably $2,000. Okay. So let me do some quick number crunching for you. From $60,000 to $70,000, you invest $2,000, you would have $433,000. Let's say you started at 63 because you wanted to get the house paid off first, right? Okay. That would then give you $250,000. So you've got a $170,000 difference there. At what year would that mature? Well, it's just compound growth over those seven years versus 10 years of investing $2,000, and again, you'd be investing more because you get free up the payments. You'd be investing three grand instead. That's 377. You still didn't catch up to those first three years of investing that then

had time for compound growth to work its magic. So that's why I feel like getting started early, getting some money in there, working that muscle, getting used to investing, and then focusing on the house. You could split the difference, but either way, you've got to get investing. I don't want to rely on just social security to be able to pay the bills the rest of my life. And so I want you to have somewhat of a nest egg to help cushion that with social security. What do you do for a living, brother? I do security. And it's a good position. It's a good company. And I enjoy what I do. and it's a good position, it's a good company and I enjoy what I do and it's not going anywhere unless the place burns down pretty much. Is there a possibility, and I'm trying to be on your team here, is there a possibility

that for 18 months you could just go B-A-N-A-N-A-S, just go bananas and work extra shifts and work overtime and get this thing off your chest? No, because the Social Security disability has a earnings limit, and I would need to be going 100 hours a week to do that. That's right. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Dang. Well, I'd probably split the difference. I want to see you get to investing and build a habit, and anything else we can throw in the house. Let's get that knocked out in the next five years. Let's set a

real clear goal and get to it, my man. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. Open phones at 888-825-5225. I'm George Camel. Sitting next to me is Dr. John Deloney. Stefan joins us up next in Charlotte, North Carolina. What's going on, Stefan? Hey, guys. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. How can we help? I am in a weird position. I lost everything, and I am driving a semi-truck, working for a really big company. And I've been in trucks for a lot of years now.

I'll say about five years. I made a lot of money in entrepreneurship, but I handled it wrong. I had a four-year-old daughter. I have a four-year-old daughter. And when I had her four years ago, I was just trying to make money and get rich. And I just didn't handle money right. I think from just generational curses, no one in my family has been able to really get past poverty. I was chasing money and getting past poverty,

but the more I try to not be like that, I find myself getting evicted the same way and losing any amount of money that I have. So I'm kind of positioned where I just want to get ahead and I want to do money right. I want to do money God's way, not just get rich quick, but something that sustains and something that, you know, I can give consistently, I can tithe consistently,

I can just be a better father. And, yeah, so that's where I'm at. And, like I said, I have no bills right now, which I kind of feel is a good thing, kind of being positive about it. But I know I could be a millionaire, and I just – How does one have no bills? Well, with – outside of, like how does one have no bills well with uh outside of like when I say no bills I mean like no major overhead vehicle payment house payments rent or anything

right okay no debt um you're not renting where are you living in his truck in my semi-truck yeah hey Stefan can I tell you how proud I am that you're making this call? That's a hard thing for you to have just said out loud that you told me in Georgia, isn't it? Okay. what I'm witnessing here is, is maybe the highest form of bravery, which is a man who loves his kid and wants to do right and wants to do something different. And it's not even as much as change your family tree,

but you want to go till a new plot of ground and plant a new tree. Cause it starts with you and you shot out of the cannon for five years and it went sideways on you and it's real easy to fall back into old patterns in the the the neighborhoods we grew up in and it's real real hard to stand tall and make a phone call and say i'm stuck yeah can i just shout you out and say i'm proud of you man thank you i appreciate that if more men would make the phone call you made today to their friends to their neighbors to their counselor to their to their ministers um the world would change it within the week but they won't but you did and i'm proud of you okay where's your daughter right now uh she was in maryland with

her mom why aren't you in maryland with with doing what you can down the street to be in her life so long story short ministry here in Charlotte me and her mom met in Charlotte where we went to school together and I just I prayed about it I prayed about it we prayed about it we co-parent with God in the middle of it too

you can be in that and we just believe that I'm supposed to still be here attached to the ministry that i'm at i think you're supposed to be attached to your daughter my brother as well yes no no listen to me i haven't heard god say leave maybe maybe he's talking through me you need to go be down the street from your daughter and here's why i spent my career with 18 to 25 year old young men and women whose moms and dads had quote-unquote different calls in their life that didn't include them and i'm not saying that you don't work i am saying you go find what you got to do to be in your daughter's life so that she sees her dad can i throw this at you you You can throw anything you want.

That's right. Her mom, they moved back home to Maryland when she had Raelynn, my daughter. Now they're actually looking to move back to Charlotte. That was another part of it. She was always ready to go back to Charlotte when she got on her own two feet, too. When is that happening? Within the next year, I will say that

happily. That's one thing that kept me keep you going because it isn't easy co-parenting far away. By far it's really hard. I don't want to be a jerk, but you're not doing much co-parenting. How old is this little girl? My baby's four. Just to give you a little bit on that, when I was

doing great and making a lot of money, this is the longest gap I've been not seeing my baby. I would spend a lot of my money feeding my baby, driving those six hours to get my baby, have her for two weeks at a time, go get her again a week later before she started school because, you know, she just started pre-K. So it's not like we had any systems in the way. I do everything I can to get to my baby. Except, you do everything except go be

with your baby. So here's what George and I are trying to tell you. I want you to build a life from the inside out, not from the outside in. And you're using words like co-parent, but you haven't seen your four-year-old. And four-year-olds don't do FaceTime. Four-year-olds do touch. They do presence. They do stillness. Okay. Four-year-olds are touch they do presence they do stillness okay four-year-olds are basically a giant nervous system they need their kids need their dads that's what i'm telling you okay and i don't want to get in the middle of your theology and what prayers you've had whatever what i know is um when you make a kid your priorities in your life changes i'm not saying that you stop working i'm not saying that you don't work really hard,

that you're not a full entrepreneur, you don't try to make money. That's what I'm saying. I'm saying it dictates where you live. And if you and mom can't make it work, then y'all figure out how we're going to live by baby. Okay? That's not why you called,

but maybe that is why this call ended up getting through. All the people trying to call. I want you to figure something out, and it might cost you money in the short term, but you will have something that millions of dads don't have, which is a daughter who wants to come home. Okay.

You're playing a 25 year game with this daughter now that when she's 30, when she's 25 and she thinks of her dad, her shoulders will drop and she'll exhale and say, dad's home. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So my new goal would be, what do my finances need to look like to where I could take a

pay cut to go move across the country to be with my daughter and it won't, you know, destroy my finances. So I would have a very clear goal of why we're getting on track. You said you don't have a penny in debt, right? No. How much do you have in savings? Nothing. I just started this job.

Okay. So that is your next goal. You said you have no bills. How much are you making per month? About $4,000. So how much of that $4,000 do you actually need to cover some expenses, like food or whatever? Insurance, you name it. Maybe $650 of it. So you're telling me right now in front of America

that you could put away $3,400 a month into a savings account. Absolutely. Let's do that. Game on. And once you have six months worth of expenses, unless expenses are fake right now for you, but let's say you had real life expenses, You were renting a place. Let's base it on that. Let's say it was three grand a month, six months, that's 18, maybe around up to 20. Once you have 20 grand saved up in a high yield savings account, that's your emergency fund. That is your never go into debt again insurance policy. And once you have that, now we can begin investing. Does your employer have a retirement program? I'm going into law enforcement. They have great ones. Great. So once you have that emergency fund, let's begin investing 15% of our income

into that retirement program. And then beyond that, I would be looking to go, I'm going to own a house one day. I'm probably not going to live on the road for the rest of my life, hopefully. And so I would begin saving up in another high-yield savings account for that down payment for whatever's next. Maybe it's a deposit for somewhere to rent for a while. But those would be my next goals for you financially of, okay, what can I tactically do right now? And so having a savings account is your next A1. Do what? I should be saving the money into those kind of high-yield saving accounts now. Right now.

So your A1 is the emergency fund, six months of expenses. Your next A1 would be retirement, 15%. Beyond that, let's begin saving up for down payment, deposit, all of that for housing. And that will put you in a position to where you're not stressed out if you have to do a cross-country move, if you have to take a pay cut. You know how to live on less than you make. That's the key. You're really good at that part.

But now let's make good use of that $3,400 because otherwise it'll slip away into snacks and lifestyle and who knows what else. And dude, I'm telling you right now, Stefan, I would have a conversation with mom tonight. I'm not going another 60 days, even if I have to get another job.

They're hiring law enforcement agents everywhere across this country. I'm not going another 60 days with forcing my daughter to live without a dad and calling that God's will right now. It's not true. Figure out a way to be around your daughter as soon as possible, as often as possible. This is The Ramsey Show. You know, one of the first things I discovered working in the financial world is how absolutely devastating it is when the breadwinner of a family dies and there's too little life insurance or none at all. Grieving families are suddenly left behind scrambling to pay bills and

trying to make ends meet. I also discovered that there are a lot of rip-offs in the life insurance world like that whole life crap posing as an investment opportunity. What you need is level term life insurance, usually 10 to 12 times your income, which is the smartest, most affordable way to protect your family. The key is finding an independent broker who represents a ton of companies and works for you, not for the insurance company. This is exactly what my friend Jeff Zander and his team at Zander Insurance are all about. They shop the term life companies to find you the best options, and they've been around for over 95 years. So you know they'll be there when

you need them. Zander is the real deal, and that's why they've handled all my personal insurance for over 25 years. I trust them, and you can too. Visit zander.com for instant online quotes or for a more personal touch. Give them a call at 800-356-4282. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Deloney. We're taking your calls at 888-825-5225. And with those calls, we get a lot of voicemails, a lot of calls we can't take, but the producers, they comb through painstakingly and find some of the best voicemails,

and occasionally we'll do a segment called, Sorry We Missed Your Call. And Producer James has a few calls for us, a few voicemails. And occasionally we'll do a segment called Sorry We Missed Your Call. And producer James has a few calls for us, a few voicemails lined up for us. James, can we play the first one? Here we go. I have a question about a trust my family is involved in. And my wife and I just were notified that grandma had passed away

and left us one quarter of a multimillion dollar trust. But we're just feeling really weird vibes from her parents, who basically felt like they got skipped in the inheritance of it and that we should give them the money back somehow. Anyways, we'd love to ask about what we should do with this money and how it would work. Thanks a bunch. Bye. Wow.

So grandma passes and says, hey, the kids aren't getting jack squat. The grandkids are going to get it. Yes. And so here's the deal. Man, since there's only one side of this call we can't ask any questions the fact that their first response was hey that's bullcrap we got skipped give us our money may be a reason why grandma was like i'm not leaving them any money i'm gonna leave it to the next generation yeah well especially mean, grandma clearly was doing well.

Yes. Managing her money and creating this wealth. So there's a piece of me that says there is a reason. Maybe it wasn't that the parents are mismanaging. I know. It's more fun for me to create some drama. You know, we say, you know, maybe the parents, she says, hey, the parents, they're fine. They're older.

They've got money. The kids, I want to give them a leg up as they begin their journeys as adults. Who knows what the reason is but the the truth is they can feel the all the weird vibes they want and be as mad as they want but this was not your decision yeah and i would not give them a penny of this money uh you don't have to gloat and hold it over them but this is not you it's it's really not your money to give grandma gave gave it to you. Yeah. I mean, I guess it technically is your money to give, but I just wouldn't. I like what you said.

I wouldn't just go buy a bunch of new cars and new houses and be like, wahoo. Like, I would be smart with it. I'd sit down with the SmartVestor Pro and invest it wisely. But here's the thing. We're just feeling really weird vibes. I don't do really weird vibes when it comes to relationship. If you have a challenge, call me. If you have a problem, let's talk about it. Otherwise, I'm going to go do the next right thing. And grandma left you a quarter of a

multimillion dollar trust. Be a wise, good steward of that money and use it as though grandmother's sitting at the table with you and ways that would make her smile and bring her bring her peace and this is your your wife's battle with her parents to deal with i wouldn't get involved as the son-in-law no but you can buy one of those electric hummers that the wheels turn sideways and they park themselves they're kind of rad looking that'll really make them angry so that's what dude do with it yes i'd get with a smart investor pro obviously running through the baby steps pay off off your debts, invest for the future, and hopefully you can do the same for your grandkids one day. Maybe skipping your kids just to keep the tradition going. I like the tradition. I like every other one.

We got another voicemail, James? You got one in the tank? All right, let's see what we got next. My wife and I are baby step seven, and we owe nobody a dime, but I have several vehicles, two collector cars, and a Kubota tractor that I need to take care of our seven-acre property. Do I sell my toys because they're worth more than my annual income, even though they're all paid for?

And that's my question. We're investing everything the Ramsey way. Thank you. Great question. So baby step seven, meaning they have completed all the steps. They paid off their house. They're building wealth, giving generously. But he's got a lot of toys, the collector cars, the tractor.

They're millionaires. Some of it we can agree is for fun. Some of it he's saying he needs to take care of this large property. And so I see no problem with this. I mean, we say, here's the parameter. That's why he's calling in. We have the parameter of, hey, everything with wheels and motors shouldn't add up to more than half of your annual income. So let's say he makes a hundred grand and the toys are worth 120 total. We're going, whew, that's a lot of your world tied up in what we would say are depreciating assets.

The tractor's not making the money. The collector cars may hold their value. Who knows? The collector cars might be a little iffy on this one. Several vehicles. So if it's weighing on him,

I would say sell what you need to get the weight off your back. But as far as financials go, I mean, there's nothing on fire here either. No, and I think the weight is he wants to do everything quote-unquote the Ramsey No, and I think the weight is he wants to do everything, quote unquote, the Ramsey way.

And we have this principle. I think the principle begins to dissolve when you become a millionaire and you're a multimillionaire. And as Dave says, could you take one of those collector cars and set it on fire in the living room of your house? And it would make a mess, but it wouldn't hurt your net worth. Yes, you're good. Do you need a tractor to run your property? Yes. And so we're not selling the tractor. You've paid for it. You own it. It's in cash. It's a part of making your life run. Let's don't do that. If you, like George says, yeah, if those two collector cars kind of weighed on you a little bit, sell one of them if you want

to. But man, you're a millionaire. Y'all are there. You can now spend some money on some of these things and give your money away generously. Yeah. The goal of that principle, that parameter, is to allow you to make it through the baby steps to build wealth. Right. And so we don't know their net worth.

You could be in baby step seven and not have a high net worth. So a lot could be true here. There's a lot to dig into. So if you're on track for a great retirement and you have plenty of money to give, save, and spend as you please, then. So if you're on track for a great retirement and you have plenty of money to give, save, and spend as you please, then I would say you're on track. But if you're going, oh, we're really not where we should be with our retirement, we could invest more, I might look at selling some of these to just get rid of the weight.

Or maybe you're what I would call a technical millionaire. The value of your home is a million dollars, but y'all are cash poor. Yeah, sell the two collector cars. Your land might be worth a million, but you don'tall are cash poor. Yeah, sell the two collector cars. Your land might be worth a million, but you don't have anything in retirement. Right. There's no income. And it's not because of some secret Ramsey formula. You don't have the money.

Yeah. Thanks for the voicemails. We appreciate it. I would love a Kubota tractor. It sounds fancy. If you're mentioning the brand name, I imagine it's like the Maserati of tractors. Yeah. I have no idea.

I only know John Deere. John Deere is outstanding. I'm mainstream Maserati of tractors. Yeah. I have no idea. I only know John Deere. John Deere is outstanding. I'm mainstream when it comes to tractors. John Deere is outstanding. I do Kubota's. Yeah, I can covet me a Kubota tractor. I would love one for my property. So, yeah, you paid for it with cash.

Rock and roll, brother. There we go. All right, let's get to a call from Avery in Hartford. What's going on, Avery? Get right to your question. Hey, how's it going, guys? Thank you for taking my call. My wife and I are currently discussing buying a large tract of uncleared land to build a remote off-grid cabin on.

You're speaking John's language now. Just in case it all goes down, I'm with you. All right. All right. Yeah. And it's less so if we can afford to do so, we have the cash. Great. It's more so if it's the right time to do so. Okay. What's going on in your life that you think it may not be the right time? The goal was always to pay off the house aggressively. And so far we've been doing so. And this money was kind of sitting there to pay off the house.. And so far we've been doing so. And this money was kind of sitting there to pay off the house. That was kind of the unspecified goal of the money. It would be taking a, we have a hundred thousand dollars in a brokerage account that was supposed to go towards

the remaining balance of the mortgage once we got to that point. But- The safest thing you can do, Avery, if it all goes down, is to have a house that nobody can take from you. Pay off your primary mortgage first. What's left on the mortgage? I'm sorry, say it again? What's left on the mortgage? $147,000. Okay, and what's the land going to cost plus the cabin build?

The land is $30,000. The cabin itself is $20,000. The whole project would be about $100,000. Okay. So walk this out. What if there's two scenarios? One is you aggressively pay down your house. So you take the $100,000, knock your mortgage down to $47,000. How quickly could you pay off the remaining $47,000? It would be a few years. A few years? Two years. Two years. Okay. So two years from now, you begin saving up for this new $100,000 land and cabin project.

That, I'm guessing, could be done in another four years or less? Presumably so, you know, with raises and whatnot. Yeah, probably. So six years from now, how old are you? That would put me at 35, both of us at 35. That feels like a more peaceful path to me personally is getting our primary house paid off then we save up and purchase the toy and have this uh this cabin dream is there going to be less land is it going to be maybe a little more sure have you ever lived in the woods dude i've spent a lifetime in the

woods yeah okay i grew up in the woods woods. Would you consider selling your primary residence to move to the woods? No. Okay. Yeah, dude, I've got a thing in my guts. I love the woods, but more so than the woods, I like having a house that nobody can ever, ever take away from me. And six years is going to fly by. Yeah, as a hedge.

And, man, if it really means a lot to you, you can save up and get $30,000. I think y'all can knock that out. Thanks for the call. This the ramsey show from ramsey network this is the ramsey show where we help people build wealth do work that they love and create amazing relationships i'm george camel joined by best-selling author dr john deloney and we're taking your calls at 888-825-5225. Don't be shy. Give us a call, and we'll help you take the right next step for your life and your money. Robert is going to kick us off this hour in Chicago. Robert, welcome to the show. You with us? Yes, sir. I'm here. Hey, how can we help? Yeah, so basically what I'm wondering is my wife and I, we bought a car in basically the beginning of COVID.

Got it for a 0% interest rate, which was great. You know, I would consider ourselves living by the Ramsey principles, like paying off debt, avoiding debt, saving up all the things, was wondering if we were better off paying off the vehicle that we have with a 0% interest loan or just continue to pay it off because it's not costing us any money. What do you mean it's not costing you money? For the loan. Like you're saying because the interest isn't there? Because that payment is costing you.

There's opportunity cost in paying a payment. Absolutely. Okay. How much money do you have saved up? Well, so that's the thing. We're buying another car this weekend, but we're doing it in cash. Okay. So not going into debt.

But we have about $80,000 saved up, and then we'll have the delta of that would be basically our emergency fund. So just wondering if we dip into that or pay it off. Well, what would you consider your emergency fund? Give me a number. $30,000 to $40,000. Okay. So let's say you have 40 to spend on this car. What's your household income? Over 200, probably. Awesome. Okay. And what's this car going to cost you that you're about to buy? 50. 50? Thousand. Okay. So I'd leave you with 30 for your emergency fund, 50 for the car.

And what's your car worth that you have the 0% loan on? So, honestly, we bought it brand new. So it was like 0% interest for seven years. And we put a pretty good bit down on it. So I don't know what it's worth. It's a 2020 Jeep Grand Cherokee, but there's like 11,000 left on it. So I don't know what it's worth. It's a 2020 Jeep Grand Cherokee, but there's like $11,000 left on it. So we'd have it paid off in March of 2027. Cool. Yeah. I mean, I'd get rid of the loan. And the truth with these 0% loans are that they charge you top dollar. The dealerships are going to make their money. And so there's

a reason they can offer these 0% loans, and they are the ones winning. In the payment, what is the payment on this car? $385 a month. So that $385 that you'll free up that you can now use to do whatever, I'm guessing invest for the future, will pay dividends more than paying down an asset that is going down in value. Totally fair. I mean, I plan on having this car for at least another six years, then hopefully longer. We are having a kid in the next month or so. So, again, trying to like just figure, I know, lots of adulting. So trying to figure out and, you know.

Are you about to go buy a brand new car? I feel like you guys like brand new cars. You cannot settle for the 2023. It's simply too old. Do you guys have a net worth of a million dollars or more? No. Okay. I personally, I would caution you against purchasing a brand new car.

Please don't. It will lose 10% of the value as soon as you drive it off the lot and 60% over the next five years. Think about it this way. When you own that Jeep Grand Cherokee, that's what you're lighting on fire in the parking lot of the car dealership when you drive off the new car. Because if you drove it on the block and drove it right back and sold it, they'd buy it back for about 11 grand less. So that's what you're going to light on fire in their parking lot. You don't have the kind of money to do that. Dave Ramsey does, you don't. So the reason for that parameter of only buy a new car if you're a net worth millionaire is that too much of your world

is wrapped up in cars until you have the net worth to stomach it. And you guys are doing great. Let me just say, Robert, you guys are crushing it. You have an amazing income. You're going to get this debt paid off. And very soon you'll be, you can buy new cars for the rest of time once you hit that millionaire status. But right now, I would go, hey, can we buy a two-year-old car and save? And the delta of what we save, we can use to pay off my car instantly. Done. You can have them both done this weekend. Before we have the baby here, that would be a cool feeling. Wouldn't it?

Fair. Yeah, that makes sense. And there's a rumor going around that i can dispel for you because both both george and i have lived it um new babies can drive around town in used cars and i didn't believe it to be true but it's on the because it says it on the internets but both of our kids have done it right that's right all of them my wife we got robert when we had our first kid my wife finally upgraded her car we'd sacrificed for long enough we paid cash for a nice car for her and even then i was like i'm gonna let someone else take the depreciation on these

luxury cars and so we saved upwards of i don't know 10 or 20 grand just by buying slightly used but i saw i saw a child seat in your 300 yearyear-old Tesla the other day. That's right. 11 years old, and it still carries child. Amazing. So here's the deal, Robert. I would look at a $39,000 out-the-door price for this new-to-you car, and I'd use the other $11,000 you were going to spend and pay off your car today. Not the answer you're hoping for, but that's what John and I would personally do for our fans. In my life, if I was in your seat, I'd do that exact same thing.

And a $40,000 paid-for cash car is nothing to sneeze at. It's a nice car. Sure. Totally fair. You're going to do great with it. And I love the idea of a baby coming into the world with parents who make almost a quarter million dollars, and they don't owe anybody anything. That's just a cool,

it's a stress-free home, or a stress, it's got less stress in it. Stress-less free home. And dude, I just, for that little baby's nervous system, man, just seems like a pretty sweet gift.

Hope that helps. I don't think it's what he wanted to hear, but it's what he heard funruiner.com slash org let's see if we can help grace out real quick grace can you get right to the question we're up against the clock hey hey uh guys thanks for having me um so after college i started with a financial advisor um i was making 75k and i got a million dollar term policy everything i read that was a good decision um a year in he says oh we're gonna you know start this new investment vehicle and we're gonna

convert and i didn't know it was a conversion dropping my million to 700 000 and i've been getting into like emails with him and conversations and he is justme, canceling the policy and taking it into investments. Who is this person? I can disclose the name. No, I mean, like, is this your insurance person? Because you should fire them. They work for you. Yeah, fire them.

I know, yeah. So surrender. Get term life in place. Go to Zander.com and get term life in place. They'll shop the top companies for you. Get term life back in place and then surrender the whole life policy, and be very firm. I'm not asking you.

I'm not looking for your opinion. I'm looking to surrender this policy. I'm done doing business with you. Yeah. And I guess my thought is, can I just, at this point, I can contact him without him actually trying to sell me more whole life and more of a conversion at this point.

Can I just go through the insurance company, surrender it, and then start investing in it, and just kind of send them an email saying, I'm done working with you. I'm tired of this. Yeah. I mean, you don't have to make it emotional. Just say, hey, I've surrendered the policy. That's it. I'm done.

I've moved on. I've got term life through a separate company. Yeah. And then I have like two of the disability policy through him. I'm probably just going to get rid of all of them. Don't do business with unethical people. Yeah. Don't do business that want to take advantage of what they see as an easy target in a young

professional woman. I don't do don't don't work with people who treat you like that. Good for you. Time to move on. This is The Ramsey Show. There's a time in your life and in the baby steps for renting, but you don't want to do it forever because when you rent, you're still paying for a mortgage just somebody else's.

Plus, rent means instability in your budget because it always goes up, never down. So when you're ready to buy, make sure you work with a mortgage partner you can rely on. Churchill Mortgage. Churchill is Ramsey trusted to help you make the move from renting to home ownership wisely. Churchill understands that when you buy a home the Ramsey way, your mortgage payment will be a consistent, manageable part of your monthly budget. Plus, when your home is paid off, that was your largest expense. Now, it's extra money in your pocket and an asset towards turning you into a baby steps millionaire. So get started on the American dream of home ownership today at churchhillmortgage.com. That's churchhillmortgage.com.

This is a paid advertisement. NMLS ID 1591. NMLS consumeraccess.org. Equal housing lender. 1749 Mallory Lane, Suite 100. Brentwood, Tennessee 37027. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Deloney. Ann is up next in Boston, Massachusetts. What's going on, Ann? Hi, thank you for taking my call. Good afternoon. Good to have you. How can we help? Yeah, so I've listened to your show for a very long time, and I actually started following Ramsey in the early 2000s and, you know, succeeded in having some decent financial security. And then, um, yeah,

about five years ago, my husband suddenly passed away and, um, yeah, it was 59. So, you know, it was just a bummer because, um, we were planning, you know, we had educated our kids, we were making good headway on finances finances our home we were planning our future so um i went into like a state of just craziness i don't know what you call it but i'm very angry yeah and very angry and um i actually donated a lot of money and i, um, spent our emergency fund money and I charged up $37,000 worth of credit card debt. And, um, so I'm back to replay, replenishing my emergency money and, um, I'm getting rid of my credit cards, consolidating back to the baby steps. But my question is, I have, I feel like my situation is so awkward because I have $1.1 million in my retirement account. I have, I'll have, you know, I'll be

secure when I retire because I'll have two pensions. And how old are you? I'm 63. So this is my question. I have two more years of working full time and I plan on, I'd like to go part time. I'm a nurse and I'd like to go part time at 65. Should I plan to just, you know, go back to baby steps and pay off my credit cards with my working income now as fast as I can? Or should I just take some money from my retirement and get that off my plate? Like, I don't know which is the best. What's your total debt right now? $37,000. Do you have a mortgage? Yes. What's left on that? I'm sorry, I have $97,000. Okay.

So when I fully retire, I'll have that paid. That'll be paid in four years. Okay. So should you use your working income in the future to pay this off or take some out of retirement? It's not a lot. You're taking that $1.1 million and taking $37. I mean, the ratio here is small. But here's what I love about you using future income. You will never go into debt again when you have to make those extra payments on those credit cards. And I would encourage you to cut them up after.

So from a math standpoint, you could take retirement money and pay this off today and be done with it. But I want to see your habits change forever, and that's where paying off this debt with future income, you'll feel that more. And I think adding friction back into your life is what's going to cause you to make better decisions in the future. That's one man's take.

Yeah, that's my gut feeling. But I'm like, am I being stupid financially, though? Because I do have the money, but I do want to make it uncomfortable for myself I think discomfort is uh undervalued in today's world yeah I think we've been comfortable for too long what do you think John yeah yeah and will you do me a favor yes this is kind of a weird request okay are you holding anything in either of your hands? Um No but I'm kind of nervous I'm shaking my legs

Am I making a lot of noise? No no no no no no You're not doing anything wrong I want you to take your hands Yeah And I want you to squeeze them as hard as you can together Okay Squeeze them really tight

Three Yeah Two And then let them go Open them up gently, okay? Mm-hmm. And your shoulders are pretty high right now because you're nervous. I want you to pull them all the way down.

Consciously pull them down, okay? Yep. Okay, done. What, can you see me or something? No, I can hear you. We're always watching. Now listen to me. Listen.

Okay. What was your husband's name? Bill. He just up and passed away didn't he yeah and you miss him like bloody hell great guy oh he was my soulmate okay can i tell you you're allowed to be mad at stinking bill and when you get to the gates he's gonna get an earful from aunt that's fine okay no and can i? Yeah. He going to be waiting there for you, hollering at you to hurry up and quit taking so long? I know. And can I tell you something else?

What? When he passed away, the world got real gray and you bought some stuff. Who gives a crap? Will you quit beating yourself up over that? I know. I am. Today. Terrible.

Today we're done. If he was sitting right next to you, he'd say quit oh my gosh quit talking about it wouldn't he yeah yes yeah you messed up mostly for like my grandkids my kids I know you know what you try to do with your pain you try to be in service to other people good I can think of a lot of worse vices that you could have gotten into after losing an arm and a leg and part of your heart. Yeah. Okay? So quit beating yourself up.

You're a millionaire because of the life you and Bill created. You're going to get this debt paid off. You're not as scared of hard work. You're not scared of putting a couple of small hurdles in front of you. You're an amazing 62-year-old woman. Oh, my God. This is such a nice phone call.

It's not what I expected. I know. But listen, every day you wade in to the craziness of hurting people, and you bring them a little peace, don't you? Mm-hmm. Okay, at least commit for the rest of today to give yourself that peace because you're worth that too.

Thank you. You promise? I really appreciate that, yeah. Financially, I have felt a lot of shame. No, dude. You know what happens if my wife up and passed away? Do you know what would happen? You would see the supernova from Boston.

I can tell you right now, I would not make a string of good choices back to back to back to back. Yeah. Okay? He was such a good guy. Yeah, you do feel like you lost your better half. What's the funniest,

what's the hardest he ever made you laugh? Oh my God. He was always making me laugh he used to dance around the house you know just whoa and this is a family show what are you doing he would dance around the house oh i have all these funny videos of him yeah he would he's just he was just a great guy yeah all Well, that joy and that light is still sitting inside your chest, and I want you to quit covering it up with shame because you spent some money and gave some money away after he passed away, okay? We're done with that now. Yep.

So paying off these credit cards with your future income, this is not a punishment to Ann because she's made bad decisions. This is a gift to herself. Yeah. I feel good with that. I feel really good with that because, um, I, my husband, I worked so hard to save up that money and it would be like, um, just very defeating if, you know, it would just make me feel bad that I, um, took that money. I mean, I re I read Dave Ramsey's first book in 2002. And I remember I was just a new nurse putting $10 a week into my retirement account thinking, this can't possibly give me that much money. and I never stopped contributing. I never segued when the markets crashed.

I just didn't even look at it. And one day I turned around and I had $800,000 in my account. I couldn't believe it. But, of course, it's been 39 years. That's right. For just this moment. Ann, I'm glad that our paths crossed today. My life is going to be a little bit brighter because I got to talk to you.

Thank you so much. And selfishly, as a guy from the South Shore, I just missed a good Boston accent. Ann, yours really did something for me. If you were in a Havid bar having a lager right now, it would make me feel a lot better. I'm going to eat some clam chowder tonight in your honor. Yeah, get some clam chowder, in your honor get some clam chowder for sure that warmed my heart

oh great I feel so much better even though I have to struggle and pay for this I feel much better with that decision thank you you're doing everything right you're on the right path creating a new picture of what's next as my Dr. Johnwoods

it's not the one you had in your mind, not the one you and Bill created, but everyone listening is proud of you. They're cheering you on for this next chapter of your life, and you're entering into it with freedom. No debt with the beautiful memory of this man who made you the woman you are. Thanks for the call, Ann. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, you guys. I'm not a fan of the big banks, and you probably already know which ones I mean.

But I do like credit unions because they're nonprofit organizations that focus on their members. And I'm proud to endorse Fairwinds Credit Union because they share the Ramsey mission of helping people get out of debt and live generously in fact they design products to help keep you from going into debt in the first place fair winds has been in business for over 75 years and they serve hundreds of thousands of members worldwide you can feel secure because your deposits are federally insured by the NCUA up to $250,000. It's easy to join and Fairwinds partners with more than 5,000 credit union locations around the country so you can bank in person wherever you live. But if you prefer the online experience, you can log on to Fairwinds and do anything you

could do at a physical location. So go to fairwinds.org slash Ramsey to learn more. And while you're there, look at the combined checking and savings account bundle they created just for Ramsey fans to help you take control of your finances. That's Fairwinds, F-A-I-R-W-I-N-D-S dot org slash Ramsey. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Deloney. Today's question of the day is brought to you by WhyRefi. WhyRefi refinances defaulted private student loans, defaulted meaning when the borrower can't make the required payments. So if that describes you and you've got private student loans, contact YRefi. They can offer you a low fixed rate loan built for you. Go to YRefi.com slash Ramsey today. That's the letter Y, R-E-F-Y.com slash Ramsey,

might not be available in all states. Today's question comes from Andrea in Arkansas. My husband's mom inherited the family hunting ranch. Oh, I would love to get this call one day, which is worth about a million dollars. My husband and I pay most of the expenses. We use our personal equipment to maintain it, and we are the ones who schedule and host hunters. I also handle all the bookkeeping.

Andrea, call me me so i told my mother-in-law that an llc needs to be created for the amount of business we do she met with her attorney and now the ranch is now only in hers and my husband's name i feel like she's trying to cause a rift between my husband and me i'm trying not to judge their family history, but every one of the other four kids are divorced. This seems to be her way of creating an easy way out of it. If we were to divorce my husband and I have a strong relationship and he assures me not to worry because this will change nothing in our marriage,

but I'm the one doing all the legwork and hoping this doesn't mess up our relationship. Am I wrong for voicing my opinion in this matter? What happens if my husband unexpectedly passed away? We have two questions. We have two kids that will need to be cared for, and we earn nothing from the ranch. Those last four words tell me a whole lot.

That's really the resentment. She's putting a whole lot of work in. She's getting zero dollars for it, and her name's not attached to it. So there seems to be, that's all playing into this picture yeah there's this is a mess they use their personal equipment to maintain it they're the ones scheduling doing all that she's doing the bookkeeping and she's the one handling telling the mother-in-law to meet with this person and i i personally don't know the

full story i don't know if the mother-in-law is being malicious, if this is really a strategic move. This was inherited family land and property that she inherited. So the daughter-in-law doesn't have a right to this land, even though she's doing work for this property. Right. Yeah, so there's multiple things happening here,

I think, George. I think one of them is you're running a business that doesn't make any money. Stop.'re running a business that doesn't make any money. Stop. Stop running a business that doesn't make money. Who is making the money? That's the question. The only thing I could think of, we are nothing.

So like the husband or she's not getting anything. The husband's not his mom making all the money. Yeah. So husband is using all of his tools and stuff like that to help because he wants to help out mom and he's the one good kid. He's the, um, all the other kids are divorced and causing problems and he's the one good kid he's the um all the other kids are divorced and causing problems and he's the one good kid so he's just gonna dump some money into this thing um that's that's one thing if it's mom's property and she wants to bring on

your husband as a co-owner of an llc in case she passes away it's easy to go to him i wouldn't lose sleep over that but the fact that you're asking this question tells me there's something else going on here. And if you had trust in your mother-in-law because of the way she has treated you in the past, and this came up, you wouldn't think twice about it, right? If my in-laws, one of my in-laws, my father-in-law or my mother-in-law um was to do a joint venture with my wife that i helped with i wouldn't think twice about it because i trust both of them implicitly forever this tells me there's other trust issues and that mom's maybe been trying to cut you out for a long time and this is another way she kind of edge anyway whole thing's messy so i would ask

this way number one um if your husband likes hunting on this property and it's fun and he likes doing it and he likes to make a little side money bringing in hunters in, y'all figure that out. Even if you bring in side money and all it does is pay the taxes on the land and pays for the feeders, fine. If husband's trying to do this to win mom's favor and maybe one day she'll leave it to him, hopefully if she, and now we're getting into messy stuff. And if you're running a business that's not earning anything you need to have that conversation yeah whole thing's a mess but i want to go back to this um one question here am i wrong for voicing my opinion on this matter if you are a part of a marriage where both people have a voice and both

people can be heard and to say what's on their hearts and on their minds. No, no. If you have voiced your opinion and your husband said, I don't care, don't worry about it, then nagging or complaining or going to war is not going to solve the problem. Then your marriage has deeper issues, which is your husband doesn't really care what your opinion is on these matters. He's going to do what he's going to do. You'll need to address that core issue, right?

Yeah. And talk to him. You said, what happens if my husband unexpectedly passed away? Figure out what the will looks like and what the estate planning journey looks like and what will happen with this LLC that he's a part of. I think you have a right to know what would happen there. But I also wouldn't, I feel like there's just more resentment here because of the effort she's putting in.

So maybe she goes, I'm going to back out of this, and y'all can hire a bookkeeper. That's exactly right. You can hire a bookkeeper. You can hire somebody who is booking these hunts. I'm going to step out and just be with the kids. There you go. And it's not a job. It's not like we're going to lose money on it, and y'all knock your lights out if that's something y'all want to do on the side.

Not much to lose here. That's right. All right, let's go to the phones. Daniel is in Cleveland up next. What's going on, Daniel? Hi, thanks, guys, for taking my call. Sure. How can we help? So I'm 23 years old.

My wife is 24. We have a three-month-old daughter. My wife stays at home. I'm a nurse. Our yearly income is probably around $60,000. We bought a house around six months ago. Uh, we have about $150,000 loan, um, at like 5.6% interest, I think. So my question is we have about a hundred thousand dollars in our, in a high yield savings account. I mean, it looks like we'll end up getting another $100,000 from like an inheritance, basically, within the next month. We have zero debt. I'm just, I guess, just like looking forward, I guess, should I be paying off my home? I just don't

know exactly, I guess, what to do with the money. I just don't want it to sit there. Yeah. So the $100,000 in the high yield, does that include your emergency fund? Is that built into that? Yeah, that's built into that. Yes. Okay. So what number would that be? Let's separate it out. I think probably around $20,000. Okay. So $80,000 is freed up. You've got $100,000 coming in from the inheritance. You owe $150,000 on the mortgage. I would pay off the house as soon as that inheritance comes in. Okay. That's going to lower your expenses. You've got a stay-at-home wife. It's going to free you up with more margin

to build wealth, to give, to up the lifestyle, whatever it is you want to do with that. But that's absolutely what I would do, especially as you filter it through the baby steps. Are you guys currently investing 15% of your income? No, we're not. So I haven't invested anything yet. I'm just starting to try to, I honestly haven't listened to Dave Ramsey much other than the last few months. Welcome to the cult, brother. We're glad you're here. That means you're trying to better your finances and your family's future. So I love that. So I would be, I'm sure as a nurse, you have a retirement plan, right? Yeah, I think they match like, I think 4% on a 401k. So I need to do that. And then my wife actually has a Roth IRA that her father set up a long time ago. She hasn't put much money

into it since then, but she has been building. You can deposit money into there because of a spousal Roth IRA. So even if that spouse isn't working, because she's married to you, you can have that earned income from you going into that account. So you could max out two Roth IRAs, you could put the 4% to get the match and invest that way. And I'll walk you through this in my book, Breaking Free from Broke, and show you that path to building wealth. So I'll send you a copy of that. But the spark notes here is I'd get that house paid off. What's your mortgage payment? It's around $1,200. Okay. So I'm guessing principal and interest of that is a big chunk. Oh, yeah. I mean, I think we're paying $800 in interest, just the way that they set up the loan. Dude, what a gift to be 23 and 24 and not a payment in the world with plenty of money

in the bank. If you just keep living like that, you're going to be a multimillionaire giving very generously. You know what? If you pay the house off tomorrow, you just got a raise to $72,000 a year. Yeah, because of the, it makes sense i mean i guess like for us uh i'm just feel like i'm at somewhat of a pivotal point because i'm just don't know exactly what i want to do i also i'm thinking about going back to school um to try to increase obviously our yearly income i'm

really hoping my wife can continue to stay home no house payment with money in the bank you can do anything you school and it'll give you the margin to do that without needing seven side jobs so you can be there with those young kids bro you don't have a house payment with money in the bank. You can do anything you want. And it'll give you the margin to do that without needing seven side jobs. So you can be there with those young kids. Bro, you don't have a house payment. This is a great place to be, Daniel. You won. You won. If you don't screw this up and go take out stupid student loans,

because if you're an anesthesiologist, don't take out any loans. Grind it. Take this extra money and spend it. Invest it in yourselves. Bro. George, you're right, dude. You loans. Grind it. Take this extra money and spend it. Invest it in yourselves. Bro. George, you're right, dude. You won. You won.

If you never have a payment again at 23 years old, you're going to be just fine, my man. Thanks for the call. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, you guys. Health insurance costs are only moving one way, and that way isn't down. And if higher costs aren't enough, the wait times to see your doctor are longer, and it's harder than ever to get anything approved through the bureaucracy. So if you feel like the system is working against you, try a biblically

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to take care of healthcare costs. CHM programs start as low as $98 a month. So learn more today and join at chministries.org slash budget. That's chministries.org slash budgets. That's chministries.org slash budgets. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Deloney. They're hitting the road with the Money and Relationships Tour. They're going to Louisville on April 21st, Durham on April 23rd, Atlanta April 25th, Phoenix on May 5th, Fort Worth on May 7th, and ending in Kansas City on May 9th. And here's what's cool about this event. I don't know how they're doing it, John, but they're going to let the audience choose the topics that you guys talk about.

Do you know how they're doing this what magic what sorcery is this well yeah it's gonna be pretty chaotic i'm just i'm laughing you and i are one of just a few people on the planet who knows what it's like sitting next to dave not knowing what he's gonna say next and uh not knowing what's gonna come out his mouth. And then he looks at you and says, John, your turn. Yep. And so, yeah, I haven't been nervous for an event in a fun way. Like, it's going to be kind of wheels off.

Who knows what's going to happen. But they'll put a QR code up on the wall, and they'll have topics, and people get to write in. And we kind of just vote, and then based on consensus, it is game on. We can talk about intimacy or wealth building or whatever. Talk about retirement and sex and marriage communication. Where else can you get that in one room in one night?

That's amazing. Grab your tickets. Money and Relationships Tour. Dave and Dr. John. RamseySolutions.com slash tour. And if you're tuning in on YouTube or podcast, click the link in the show notes. Madison is up next in Hartford, Connecticut. What's going on, Madison?

Hey, so I want to thank you for taking my call. Sure. So I'm currently 24. I just started my second nursing job after graduating college. Awesome. I will preface by saying that I am in some debt from going to school and like a car loan. But with benefits and them being so overwhelming and confusing, I do have a few questions. Okay. So with my employer, they have a 6% match on my retirement. And even though I have some debts, I assume that I should contribute

that amount. Be careful with assumptions. I know, right? Okay. But I guess depending on the answer to that question, my second piece is they offer it as like pre-tax or in a Roth. Yep. I guess if you want, I can stop there. The second part is kind of something different as another benefit. Okay. So your number one question is, should I contribute to this even though I have debt?

Yes. Okay. The not fun answer is that I would pause all investing until you knock out all of this debt for two reasons. Number one, it's going to give you back 6% of your annual income to tackle the debt faster, right? Okay. And number two, it's going to put a fire under you to get rid of that debt really fast because you want to get to that investing and get to that free money. And as humans, we kind of need to have this carrot dangling in front of us. Otherwise, we get comfortable doing 17 things and not making progress on any of it.

So what is your gross income? Personally, we have 70 before overtime. 70. Okay. So 6%, that's 4,200 a year. That That's $350 a month. So you'll have $350 back in your paycheck to attack debt. What's your total debt load? About $20,000 in student debt and $12,000 in a car loan. Okay. So you got $32,000 in debt. You make $70,000. How aggressively can we pay this off? My guess is 18 months. Yeah. I'd say I paid $10,000 off my car last year. Boom. So, like, I assume that'll be for the next 10 years.

If you do it George and John's way, this debt is going to be gone in 18 months, so that puts you at 25 years old, and now you're investing 15% instead of the measly match, which is what most people do for their whole life. They can never get above the match. They don't have the money. Right? For sure.

So now imagine you're making more money. You're investing 15%, which is $10,500. So now you're investing $875 instead of $350 for the rest of your life. So when it comes to that time, because 18 months, we all know, just flies by. It will. Should that be in the pre-tax retirement or the Roth? I would personally go Roth. And it's a simple reason. You're going to use pre-tax retirement or the Roth? I would personally go Roth. And it's a simple reason. You're going to use after-tax money, so you won't get the deduction when you do your taxes like you would with traditional side.

But that money, you already paid Uncle Sam. So it's going to grow tax-free, and you can withdraw it tax-free. So let's say you retire. You're 24 years old. Let's say you start investing at 25. You work till 62 and you never get a raise after putting in that $875,000 or whatever. Well, guess what? You're going to have $5.4 million. And if you're in traditional, you've got to pay taxes on that money as you withdraw it.

But if it's Roth, you have $5.4 million of take-home pay, of net income. You see the difference? Oh, for sure. and that's why i was confused whether i should start now even though it wouldn't be 15 percent um and that's my like my fiance and i's finances are totally separate good um as it should be until you're married don't combine can i ask you a crazy question madison yeah go for it have you and and you've been in job one and now you're in job two have you been in a room when a doctor flew by and said, do this, this, and this, and your first thought was, Oh, for sure. That's why I'm on the phone with you now. There you go. So here's what I want. I'm going to come to you as a nurse one day,

holding the most precious thing in the world to me, and that's my daughter. Or I'm going to come in holding my son, and I'm going to be using superhuman strength because he's humongous. And I'm going to look at you and I'm going to say, help. And I would much rather make eye contact with somebody who is completely free,

doesn't owe anybody anything, who can say, i can help your kid i would much rather that interaction than somebody who says well we're gonna have to run you through the whatever spectrometer because this is the plan because you know i gotta pay these credit card bills and i gotta follow the you see what i'm saying oh for sure i want a health professional that I got to follow the, you see what I'm saying? Oh, for sure. I want a health professional that is free to do the right thing in the right moment.

Not somebody's got to think through a whole bunch of filters because a bank owns their next move. And so I want you to think about being 26 and 25. You don't owe anybody anything. You know what you can do the next day? Whatever you want. And the day after that, whatever you want. Perfect. You see what I'm saying?

And then George just gave you the roadmap. Just your salary alone, $5 million. And that's if you never get a raise, which you sound like you're an incredible nurse. You're going to go places. You're going to make more money over time. We'll always need nurses. And so that just goes to show you if you get this debt out of your life, it's going to free up margin for the rest of your life. Yes.

And so you'll save up and pay cash for your next car. You'll never go into student loan debt again. You'll cut up the credit cards. You use your own money because you don't need a bank. You don't need a lender. Oh, for sure. Never touch the credit card. Don't plan on it.

Awesome. Okay. But there's going to come a moment when you're going to want to go, someone's going to, at your office is going to say, hey, we have this little program. It costs $25,000 or $50,000. You can go be a nurse practitioner.

We want you to, we've seen you. We want you to do it and it starts in the fall. I want you and your husband to be in a place where you'll have that money saved up, because you know that it's going to come, so start saving for now.

Okay. You said you had one more question? I don't want to leave you hanging. Yes. Yeah, yeah. So the second part, I kind of get the gist now, but it was the HSA that my work offers as well. So they contribute every year $750 from HSA to anybody that takes out insurance plans. Awesome. I'd 100% do that. Well, yeah.

So obviously the free money is super smart. My other piece is, so I have approximately like $100 in medical bills that I could use as HSA for every month due due to a predisposed condition. And so I'm wondering if, like, I know I should be investing, and I know at $1,000 I can be invested and so on, and I'll have these medical bills at approximately $100 a month for the rest of my life. So I guess i'm asking should i be putting enough

in there to pay for my a hundred dollars a month so that's coming out pre-tax sure yeah that'd give you the most benefit okay i don't know it's gonna be a light bill for you it's like getting it's like getting a 15 or 20 discount on that bill every month by running it through the HSA. And then eventually, after this debt is cleared, be contributing more to that. Max the whole thing out. Yeah. My goal for you would be once you've got 15%, you're debt-free, you've got the emergency fund, then beyond the 15% retirement investing, max out your HSA every year as kind of a bonus retirement account one day.

And at 65, you can use it as a traditional 401k for non-medical expenses. You'll have to pay taxes on that if it's not for medical, but that's kind of a cool, fun fact about the HSA. So great call, Madison. I'm proud of you. 24 years old to be asking these questions tells me that you're going to be just fine. And I'm really proud of you. Get your fiance on board and you guys will be going places and building wealth together. This is The Ramsey Show. Keep listening on the Ramsey Network app. We've got more calls to come. Go download it.

Live from Ramsey Network, this is The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Camel, joined by Dr. John Deloney, host of The Dr. John Deloney Show. And we're taking your calls at 888-825-5225. Andrew's going to kick us off this hour in Fargo. What's going on, Andrew? Hi, thanks for taking my call. Sure. How can we help? Well, my wife and I have been married for seven years.

She is a stay-at-home mom to our two little girls. They're five and three. We are debt-free, and I was notified in March of this year that I was being let go from my job. My last day was June 30th, and so we decided to take that opportunity to pivot my career professionally. We were isolated where we were living. So we sold our house and we moved back to our hometown. And we have been alternating turns living with our parents and my parents and my in-laws over the last four months. We've been living off of our savings, and I've been working part-time at UPS and part-time with a startup consulting firm. The startup hasn't paid me yet. As a husband and a provider,

I want to stop living with our parents and my in-laws and provide our own space and provide for my family. One of the options that has been presented to us is that my retired parents have offered to gift us their paid for home and they would downsize into something smaller. It's hard to turn down the thought of possibly being a net worth millionaire with the stroke of a pen, but I also don't know if this is the right thing for our family. I think it's probably going to feel more like my childhood home as opposed to our family home. I'm concerned about just some complex family dynamics, some expectations that may be there or strings attached that maybe we don't see. My parents have lived in that house for 35 years.

I grew up in it, and we're going to be having to update it. And can we ever move? Those types of questions. So just trying to get an idea of at least maybe how to start to have a conversation or figure out what to do. Yeah, I think there's several things at play here. Number one is your confidence is at an all-time low, and I think you've identified it. Are you pretty tired? Yeah, yeah, for a lot of ways. My shift my shift at ups starts at 4 a.m so right uh well i'm thinking of physical tired but i'm also thinking of um you're you're so covered up

in shame right now dude you don't even know what day it is right um you there are there are friends of mine who if they call and say, dude, my dad wants to give me their house, I would be like, yes, amazing. And then I have friends of mine who would call and say, dude, my parents want to give me their house. And I would say, you know, it's a terrible idea. So the fact that, let me put it this way,

no family home is worth blowing up a family over. And if you know my parents would give me this house, but there's going to be tons of strings attached to it because that's how they've been when they let me use the family car back in high school, and that's when I graduated college and they had all this extra. You know more than anybody. Or if you're just nervous about it and you're feeling low right now, just because you're on the down and outs and you've been working two part-time jobs and one of them sucks and you had a dream and it's not working um then i think the the responsible i hate to use this kind of language

but it the provider like sit down with your parents and say i value my relationship with you two more than a dumb house um if i accept this house i want to know what the what the what the stipulations are and we're going to write them down um like what happens if we want to change the carpet and we want to change the cabinets and what happens if i get transferred in four years and we have to sell this house and move um like let's let's map this out and if your mom looked at you and goes, oh, no, no, no, no, we're not selling the house, then you know, then they're not giving you a house. They're letting you live in their house. And that's a very different proposition. Yeah. Is this house paid off?

Yeah, it's paid off. So here's the problem from a estate planning perspective. If you inherit this house while they're alive, there's going to be a carryover basis. So if they bought the house for, let's say it was $150,000, well now when you inherit it, it's now worth $650,000. Well, when you sell it, you got to pay the capital gains on that. But if you inherit it through the will, it'd be a stepped up basis. So it'd be the fair market value at the time you inherit it. And so if you inherit it and it's worth $650,000, well, if you sell it for $700,000, there's only $50,000 in taxes. You see the difference? So it's advantageous to do it differently than what you're describing here, on top of all the emotional relational pieces and the fact that you don't know that you can still afford this house, all the upkeep, the maintenance, the property taxes, the insurance. And so that's what worries

me is you're sort of artificially propped up right now. And I want to see you have that sense of independence to be able to handle this on your own. What does your wife say? I think she is, she's also conflicted. She understands what kind of a on paper financial blessing this could be, but I think also worries about the relationship dynamics and changing things with the decorating or what have you, the ways that we would make it our house. I think there's a part of her that would always feel like she wouldn't have permission to do that.

So what is it about your relationship with your parents that you already are predetermining that that conversation would be a non-starter? I think I have a pretty good relationship with my parents. I think I could have a conversation with them about it. And even so, I think it would still be difficult to know, even if we map those out, I think there's still maybe be a feeling of waiting for another shoe to drop because this is just such a crazy generous offer, one that I wouldn't have ever expected. Well, okay. So here's what's important. Because I'm thinking of my dad were to call me and do this. And I was to sit down with my mom and dad and say, dude, I'm painting this house.

You know I like crazy paint colors in my house. I'm painting this house, and this back fence is going to go. Or I want to sell it a year from now. And they go, no, no, no, you can't sell art. That's our childhood. And now there's weird strings attached to where your life is. But my dad would say, I don't give a crap your house like it's your house right if you think your parents would do that then you're not taking this house is about your ego and your pride

and if you're not going to take a gift of a million dollars from somebody's trying to help you out who's not going to hold strings attached and it's just going to be like, well, it would feel weird, I want you to check yourself on that. Okay. Because it's a gift. If you think that it's going to end up blowing my family up because one day I might get transferred, I might have to sell this house,

then, because you can always sell the house in five years if you get transferred or you get a new job across the country or whatever happens and you can put some money you can do what you want with the proceeds of the sale of the house right? so you could offer some money back or whatever happened there

but man if you had a great relationship with your parents and you think they'd be like yeah paint the house change the carpet we don't care they were giving it to you then it may be your pride that's getting in the way here. Or if like George was talking about, if they think you're just moving into their house and they're going to downsize and buy a second home for themselves, then yeah, I'm probably not going to move my family in there, especially for the long term. Yeah. I would tread with caution personally.

This feels like it could get messy quick and I'd be focusing on what you can do with your career and your income to earn this on your own and have it feel like it's really yours and ours with you and your wife. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Deloney. Open phones at 888-825-5225. We talk a lot about getting a plan for your money on the show, and the monthly budget is the way you do that. And our team created the world's best budgeting app called EveryDollar to make it simple to plan your spending, track your expenses, save what matters most, all in an easy-to-use app. So go check it out. Download EveryDollar for free in the App Store or Google Play,

or we'll drop a link in the description if you're listening on YouTube, podcast, or anywhere else. Jeff is with us up next in Phoenix. How can we help, Jeff? Hi, guys. Thanks for taking my call. I love your lessons you guys teach everybody. And my question is, I'll be 65 next month, and I'm just wondering if I'm ready to retire. No way, dude. You're just halfway home, man. Yeah. Well, we always say that retirement is not an age, it's a financial number.

So walk us through where you're at with your nest egg and other assets. Yeah, well, I mean, the income is about $150,000 a year. We don't have any debt other than an investment property of about maybe $25,000. Okay. So we've got about $400,000 in pension and IRA, 401k, and we've got probably $10,000 in an emergency fund. So there's kind of the numbers. What do you do for a living? Sales.

Sales. I'm selling power tools. Do you like it or are you done with it? I like it. Just got some medical issues that I'm worried about. Okay. So if you were to retire this year, how would you live? How would you cover your expenses? Through some of our investments, probably have to sell the property what's it worth property uh probably we just bought it about a year and a half ago um so it's worth about 550 oh wow would you lose money on it no okay what's it bringing in every month or every year

um well we just bought it for an investment we're not renting it out or vrbo or anything like that No. Okay. What's it bringing in every month or every year? Well, we just bought it for an investment. We're not renting it out or VRBO or anything like that. I've been fixing it up. I've probably put $25,000 into it, but it's probably... So it's a vacation home. When I hear investment property, I thought, okay, he's looking to rent this thing out and make some money. Okay. No.

So you would sell it in order to invest to generate more money for your retirement. Right. Okay. That makes me feel better about your retirement plan for sure because right now I'm looking at this, I'm going, you have a great income, but the nest egg is, you know, it's not sizable.

It's not going to last you 30 years. Right. Based on, I don't know what your current, do you know what it's not sizable. It's not going to last you 30 years. Right. Based on, I don't know what your current, do you know what your currently monthly expenses are? Probably around $2,000, but then you get property taxes every year for both properties. Yeah, all in to cover everything. What would it cost per year? All of your expenses?

$40K? Yeah, probably. Okay. So that tells me you need it probably closer to a million dollar nest egg. So therefore, if you sold the property and invested that $550 plus000 plus your $400,000, that would get you much closer. And I'd feel much better about you stepping away from work full-time. Okay. Will you clear that property? Or do you have a mortgage on it?

We owe about $25,000 on it. You'll still walk away probably with close to half a million out of that deal? Yeah. Okay. And here's the deal. If you invest, if you just invest that into the market, let's call it an S&P 500 index fund, about every seven years, that investment would double. So if you just leave the 500 alone, it would turn into a million seven years from now. Okay. If you didn't touch it. And so that's where I would sit down with a smart investor pro and start to crunch some of these numbers of what could happen in the future and how much you'll need to live off of.

There's too many variables here to tell you, yep, you're ready to retire, Jeff. I'd do it today. If you had 7 million, I'd give you the green light right now. But there's a yellow light here that I would pause and do some math before you went ahead and left your job. And the last thing I would tell you, Jeff, is the research is pretty clear. When people retire to do nothing, their body's to quit. Yeah, that's not me. Okay. So yeah. And if you're a good salesman, that means generally you like being around people, you like a good deal. And so I would want you to retire to something, whether it's,

it doesn't have to be making money. You can be doing it to serve your local community, to go be around your grandkids, and you're going to be papa that shows up every morning for juice and coffee, like whatever the thing is, but I want you to retire to something, not from something. So that's what I like to do is I like to flip homes. So that's part of this process. I've been rolling properties for probably less than seven years. Okay. I just want you to have more to show for it because of this nest egg.

So if that means you're working for another year, and you said if you can live off 40 and you make 150, what if you could max out, do all the catch-up contributions in retirement, stack some money away in a brokerage account? That would give me a little more peace about retiring or just moving on to kind of a hobby-type retirement, an encore career. Okay. Because you guys make great money, and I would just want to see that nest egg grow before I pull the trigger on retirement. But you're close. You're not far away if you make these moves and take advantage of this income. Appreciate the call. Annalise is up next in Fort Wayne. How can we help, An's not very consistent. Aha.

Okay. What do you do for work? I'm a caregiver. Okay. So how do you get paid? I can. Just through direct deposit. Is it based on your hourly?

Is it like whenever there's clients and you'll go visit, however long you're there, you'll get paid hourly? So what's the range? What's a bad month and what's a great month? A great month would be around $800, and a bad month would be around like $300. A month or a week? Around $800, and a bad month would be around like $300. A month? Or a week?

Not. For like two weeks. Two weeks. Are you working part-time? Because it seems real low to only be making $1,600 a month on the high end. Yeah, I've been trying real hard. They've been trying real hard to get me full time. Okay, well, if they can't get you full time... Because you're living on the poverty line right now. You've got to take care of you if they can't help you. Yeah. Or is it just you? Are you single? I have a fiancé, but we're not living together.

When are you guys getting married? We're getting married January 4th. Awesome. So what will the household income be then? What does he make? He makes around, he gets paid weekly, he makes around $ 500 each week. So he's making two grand a month, about 24 grand a year.

Also close to the poverty line. Yeah. This doesn't bode well. We got to work on our careers. Yeah. I know you guys are young, but I think we need to go, what does the next five years look like to get us to a place where we can get to the spot we're both making 40 50 60 70 80 grand so that we can accomplish our

financial goals yeah but i'll answer your question how you make a budget if you have an irregular income is really simple you're going to do a prioritized spending plan so if you jump onto every dollar and you start using our app you're going to list your income for the month on what you think it might be just give us an estimate we an estimate. We know it's not going to be zero. And so let's say it's going to be a thousand bucks. Great. We're going to put that there and whatever we need to cover first, that's going to be food, utilities, housing, transportation. That's what you would pay first. Beyond that, if you get more money coming in, we'll cover the next important thing, insurance, then the next important thing, and then subscriptions and luxury stuff that will come last if we have an awesome month.

And if you do have a great month, put money aside in a savings account as sort of a peaks and valley fund to cover those down months. So I'm going to send you our budgeting app, EveryDollarAnalyse. I want to see you win with money. But income, that's your greatest wealth building tool. It's hard to budget when you don't make much. That's a reality. So we need to get the income up, and then budgeting will be a whole lot more fun. So hang on the line. We'll get you the app, the premium version with all the bells and whistles. This is The Ramsey Show.

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Deloney. And occasionally, we have some friends come through town, and we want to let you guys know about them. And we've got a very special guest for this segment. Dr. Lane Norton is with us, a scientist, coach, author, podcaster, world champion athlete, a power lifter. You just won gold.

And just won gold. The International Powerlifting Competition, the world championship in South Africa. And it shows. Yeah. He, George asked to be more feet than normal away from him. I covered up my arms for this segment just because I don't want to, I don't want to have to compete, but Lane, you're so much more than muscle. You're a brilliant guy who uses a lot of evidence-based research in the fitness and nutrition world. And just like I try to, you know, educate, entertain, debunk myths with misinformation out there in the fitness and nutrition world. And just like I try to educate, entertain, debunk myths with misinformation out there in the financial world,

you've been doing that in the fitness and nutrition industry. Yeah, for like 20 years. We were talking about this off air, but everyone eats, so everyone has an opinion on nutrition, even if it's not a great opinion. And there's so many myths that have circulated for so long, for so many of us, and listen to the ramsey show um it's really tough because people want to want to live on a budget right dave's been saying rice and beans for years that sounds awfully vegetarian

right so it triggers people but also there's now a whole bunch of new um eating and nutrition and exercise advice that can feel at the top of of somebody's like it can be expensive right or if it can feel expensive so with the you know the cost of quality food these days for our listeners out there who want to eat well not break the bank in the baby steps what is your advice to that average person out there so i don't think eating well has to necessarily be expensive. I think people think there's such a high barrier to entry with good nutrition. And the reality is, yeah, fruits and vegetables cost more money and whatnot, but they're not that expensive. Now, if you're going to Whole Foods and Trader Joe's not to call anybody out, like those places are fine, and you're doing organic – listen, I try to get people to

focus on the big rocks as ron white says shoot the alligator closest to the boat the big rocks are lean proteins control your overall calorie intake uh eat enough fruits and vegetables get enough fiber right and so for me i'm like hey if you can't afford fresh produce get frozen produce right that's you're worried worried about not being able to afford organic wild-caught salmon, but you're eating Twinkies. Love chimichangas. There's a spectrum here, exactly, George.

And okay, if you can do fresh stuff, great. But if not, frozen or even pre-made meals. And go to Aldi instead of whole food so there's alternatives that are budget friendly the next best right thing yeah and like dave says live on less than you make that's the calorie intake save for the future okay that's our lean protein so just getting into the habit is more important than nailing it and getting the organic free range everything well it's like worrying about like your like like minuscule investments rather than like

paying off your debt. Focus on the big stuff. Focus on the big stuff. Yeah. People will call us and love a hundred thousand dollars in auto loans and student loans. And they'll be trying to argue with us over their, their mortgage APR versus it's like, okay, bro, pay all your debts off. And then we'll talk about that.

Exactly. You're not even doing the basic stuff. Let's make everybody listening right now uncomfortable in as simplest terms as you can for someone with a dense brain like me how is despite all of the nutrition religion wars out there carnivore vegan wakita like all of it how is dave ramsey's baby steps similar to energy expenditure to losing weight yeah so you so losing weight boils down to eating less calories than you burn. Okay, hold on. Everybody just got triggered.

Say it again. Losing weight boils down to eating less calories than you burn. And I don't have time to go through. People say, that's too simplistic to explain physiology. No, there's a lot of deep underlying science behind calories out, thermic effect of food, non-exercise activity, thermogenesis, I could go through all of it. But it is like a budget in so far as

if you are somebody who's very active, you have more muscle mass, you have a big budget, right? And so if you make a million dollars a year and you can pay your mortgage and you can save for retirement and you have no debt and you take care of your responsibilities, if you want to for retirement and you have no debt and you take

care of your responsibilities. If you want to go out and buy a nice sports car because it makes you feel good and it's in the budget, there's nobody here who's going to say, no, don't do that. You have the margin calorically or financially to do that. Right. And so it's the same thing with food. If you are a large human with a lot of muscle mass and you're active, hey, you can meet your calorie needs, your protein, your fiber, and you might have energy left over in your budget that, hey, if you want to have a slice of cheesecake, no big deal, right? But if you have less muscle mass, you're sedentary, hey, your budget's going to be smaller and it probably doesn't make sense to spend that much

of your budget on something that's not very filling and doesn't have a lot of nutrition for it that's right and and nothing is more frustrating to me than than that truth yeah it's just science and by the way you mentioned it if you want to go down a deep dive you can check out dr norton on joe rogan's podcast on a ts podcast he room in a couple of times like and you spend hours pulling stuff apart yep just needless to say as much as i don't want to admit it he's right he's right and he's it's like dave living on saying live live on lesson you make and then there's financial advisors who can you know they can break it all down and new but it's really as simple as that well a lot of people get worried about like like seed oils and more it's like well that's like you worrying about the interest rate on your mortgage, right?

When you are leveraged up to the hilt in other things, you're making enough money, but you're just, you're not keeping a budget. You're not taking care of the major things that make the biggest difference. Right. There we go. So for folks out there who are, let's say they're in baby step two, they're working on paying off debt. We say go scorched earth, cut the memberships. Well, gym memberships could be a part of that. So if a membership doesn't fit in the budget, how can people still stay in shape? Would you say, well, don't pay 200 bucks for the gym membership, scale down to a $10 a month plan of fitness,

or just walk around the neighborhood? What's your advice? As much as it pains me to say that, yes. But there are bigger box gyms that have very low like okay you're not going to get the cardio theater and you're not going to get the swimming pool okay but you get access to the cardio and the weightlifting equipment for 10 bucks a month or less than that or 15 bucks a month i'm not saying that everyone can afford that but most people you can find some space in your budget for that right that's one of your subscription services. Right, right. So cancel Netflix and do that.

Or two cups of coffee each month. Right. Now, what I would say is, okay, let's say you absolutely are like, you're getting rid of everything. You don't even have a TV. Like you're really going scorched earth. Okay, you got legs.

You can go walking. Body weight. You can do body weight exercise. You can do calisthenics. The research shows even that, you know lighter weight high rep stuff which would include calisthenics that it can still build muscle as long as you are being intense enough with it if you're taking close enough to muscular failure meaning like if you're doing push-ups you get very close to the point where you just can't do another one you do enough enough sets of that, you can still build muscle.

So for those that are, you know, they're working the baby steps, they're working the three jobs, trying to pay off the debt, they're exhausted, how can they still prioritize exercising? They're wiped out at the end of the day. How can they still get it done? This one's for me personally, because I'm always wiped at the end of the day, and I'm not a morning person.

What is your advice? I'm going to do something uncomfortable somewhere, right? Move your body what i'll say is i think a lot of people again they think the barrier to entry is so high if i can't go work out for an hour a day or two hours a day it's not what no no so there's research showing that four minutes of intense exercise per day can reduce your risk of cancer by 20 wow there's research showing that like even very short periods of intense exercise can improve your metabolic health. So, hey, if you only got 20 minutes,

you could still like something is better than nothing. Even if it's just going for a walk, if it's just doing some burpees, if it's just doing some pushups, something don't let the enemy of good be perfection. And when we're talking about exercise people worry about well i don't burn enough calories the benefits of exercise are far beyond the calorie burn because they improve your improves your metabolic health even without losing weight and if you look at the research on step counts on like short periods of intense exercise on depression two 25 minute sessions of lifting weights per week had a bigger effect on increasing major depressive symptoms in and decreasing decreasing decreasing decreasing symptoms of major depressive disorder in men

than ssris well hey i want to thank you, Lane, for number one, being my friend. You've been a guy that's helped me out behind closed doors for a long time. You have the best app for losing weight, for maintaining things. It's called Carbon. Where can they go to get the Carbon app? It's the app I use at my house. It's the best there is. Where do we go?

You can find it on the iOS or Android store at Carbon Diet Coach. And, you know, not only does it help you track your food, but it's actually a coaching app. It will give you nutrition recommendations, and then it will adjust them based on how you progress so that you get towards your goals. And it's $9.99 a month. Amazing. Thank you, Dr. Lane Norton, for joining us. This is The Ramsey Show.

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Deloney. Our scripture of the day, Proverbs 18, verse 2, a fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion. Ooh, that was for you, George. Oh boy, that just summed up like every social media platform. Reddit is quivering in their boots right now. Goodness gracious. Jordan Peterson said, don't be a slave to stupid rules. Yeah.

Good life advice there. Okay. I like that. I can get behind that. And hey, in that last segment, we had to run real quick because we're live, but Dr. Norton is a treasure trove, man. He's the real deal. There's a reason why everyone on the planet has him out on their shows.

And he has been a follower of Dave Ramsey. He said right when he was graduating for grad school, his mom handed him a copy of Total Money Makeover, and that's how we got connected right when I started this job. But he lives the principles. He's got multiple businesses and he helps people all over the planet. And he's not just an academic,

but he actually is a coach and a lifter himself. But it's no joke. The Carbon app is as good as it gets. It's the real deal. And we've got people in this building that use it and have transformed their lives with it. So it's great. I believe it.

And you can follow him at bio lane, L A Y N E. And he's always debunking myths. And that's why I love to follow him. He's always getting in the mix and going, this guy is full of crap. Here's why it's wrong. Here's all the research behind it.

And you go, you can't, I mean, he's out there doing what we do, but he has a thing in his soul and we've talked about it. It's a justice thing. It's a justice thing. It's a justice thing. He cannot stand the lies and nonsense that trap people.

And we've got a very, very unhealthy culture. And a lot of that is because there's so many competing messages, and there's so much nonsense and so much garbage everywhere you look. And he's just taken it on his shoulders and said, I'm going to give people, kind of like Dave. Cutting through the noise, telling the truth. I'm cutting through the noise telling all this crap here's the actual truth first first live on less than you make we'll start there right and um it's it's it's it's i'm glad i'm happy to call him friend i love it all right let's get to the phones dan is in albuquerque up next

how can we help dan hey guys thanks for taking my call. Long time listener, first time caller. Just trying to figure out my situation. I used to be on maybe step three, and now I'm back to maybe step one. What happened? Three years ago, I had the opportunity to purchase a small company. So I basically made the decision to jump back into debt and purchase a company. This is our third year in business, and we're doing pretty good. We're finally at a point to where everything is ironed out. We're not going to be spending much more money next year. And our ways to advance would be either on the science side we do consulting or on the other side we do environmental sampling.

Our plan for the future was to work, pay off all the debt that it took to get the company going, which for me was about $60,000. Unfortunately, it was in credit card debt, so the worst possible kind. Is that what's left? What's left on your debts? Right now, it's that $60,000. We paid off the entire company, which was $100,000, and I'm left with $60,000 on my end. Okay. And what are you making a year? Right now, it's between $5,000 take-home a month to $6,000 take-home a month. Okay. So about $60,000, $65,000, somewhere in there, and you owe $60,000. Yeah. And what's your question?

I'm sorry? What's your question today? I want to make sure we can help you out. So we have another opportunity. Oh, boy. Dan, remember last time you said there was an opportunity? That's usually a precursor to someone doing something really stupid and justifying it. Yeah.

And it feels like it, but everything's just working out for it, so I don't know what to do. Everything's working out? Yeah, so... You're in as much debt as you make. I don't know how everything's working out so far. Yeah, so here's the thing. We want to get a drill rig so we can expand our business.

Very expensive piece of equipment. What's it cost? $270,000. And you want to take out a loan for $270,000 on top of the 60 you owe in credit cards? So, no, I want to take out a loan for $100,000 and go into business with a guy I've known for a long time. So now we're going to complicate it even further by bringing someone else into the mix. take out a loan for $100,000 and go into business with a guy I've known for a long time. So now we're going to complicate it even further by bringing someone else into the mix. Correct.

Please don't do any of the things you're about to do. You're going to be calling us back a year from now saying, hey, the business tanked. My partner ran away. He's not paying the bills. I co-signed. Now I'm footing the bill for a $270,000 drill rig that does nothing because the business is over. And then something like COVID or oil prices will drop or water sampling will get taken over by the EPA because now the EPA is going to get fixed because whatever the politicians are saying. Your risk meter is broken.

Please just don't. Whatever you're about to do, just don't. Don't. If your business was running and gunning and, the way if this 60,000 bucks even though you took it out in your personal credit card if it's part of a business loan you took out use the business to pay this money off if your business can't make enough money to pay off a $60,000 loan you're not in the expansion world yet you're propping up this business artificially at that point so dan you said you've been listening for a while. You knew we were going to say that,

which tells me your heart said, I shouldn't do this. And you needed someone to walk you off the ledge. Is that right? In a way, yeah. Because like I said, from my perspective, it really just seemed like everything was falling into place. We have the people who are putting down cash for it. We have our part that half fell apart because we had the $70,000 in the bank, but we had really terrible accountants that we ended up having to pay way more taxes

than they projected for us. So we're back down to not enough to fund what I originally thought we were going to there's an old quote by Brene Brown that says what you go looking for in the world you're sure to find and what you are looking for is an opportunity to get you out of the mess that you're in and you've been exhausted for three years and you've been running and running and running

and bad accountants and bad tax advice and all this loans on my credit card. And so what you're doing is you're looking at a, at a situation, by the way, if you have even an ounce of common sense or even an ounce of somebody wants to hang out with you and have a drink with you, somebody will have some plan you can invest in, right? Every way to Sunday for the rest of your life, that will be the case. And somebody put something on the table. And so what you want so bad is for this thing to be your ticket out of the frustration you've had for the last 36 months.

And what you're not seeing is the insane risk you're laying out in front of you when you're already in a leveraged position here's what i want to solve for you dude i want you to solve for peace and you've never solved for peace you've solved for the next thing and the next thing and the next thing and the next the next opportunity that's going to be the one and so dan i we're not trying to beat up on you we want to see you win and too often that opportunity is going to turn into more pain in the future and And so here's what Dave would do. Here's how he built this place, the studio we're sitting in, the speed of cash.

That's how we encourage and equip and coach all of our folks who are entrepreneurial in the small business world. There's an event happening right now as we speak called Entree Leadership Master Series Up the Hill, where Dave's telling everyone, if you want financial peace in your business, don't use debt to fund it. We don't do it. And so here's the deal. Up your consulting until you can pay off your debt and cash flow the next purchase. That's what we need to figure out. How do we make the business make more money without sinking 300 grand into a piece of equipment that's somehow going to magically solve everything. So can you do more consulting? I can.

We've tripled what we did our first year, last year, so we can do more. There's no overhead with consulting, right? I'd have to hire somebody. I'd rather you hire someone because there's no overhead and obviously you've got to pay them, but if there's the gigs on the books, it doesn't involve you taking on debt to do it. How is your business tripling and you're only making $60,000 as the owner? Well, I guess last year, after the taxes and everything, we made 85 each. It's a two-person business.

Okay. I want you to scale with peace, man. I'm going to send you a copy of Dave's best-selling book, Entree Leadership, that's going to walk you through all of this, and I wish you the best, and I hope you don't take out another penny in debt. That puts this hour of The Ramsey Show in the books. Thank you to Dr. John Deloney, all the folks in the booth for keeping the show afloat, and you, America. Until next time, spend wisely, save intentionally, and give generously. I'll see you next time.