The Ramsey Show - App - Quit Letting Life Happen to You and OWN Your Life (Hour 1)

Episode Date: August 25, 2023

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Pods Moving and Storage Studio, this is The Ramsey Show. It's where we help you win in your life, specifically your money, your work, and your relationships. The phone number to jump in on the conversation is 888-825-5225 that's 888-825-5225 i'm ken coleman joined by the fabulous the incomparable jade warshaw my colleague and ramsey personality so we're ready to go are you ready to go what can

i say ken let's do it you You got a little fall thing working, getting ahead of things a little bit today. I like it. No, this is for Battle of the Bands, Ken. Okay, all right. I had to bring my punk rock vibes. All right, we'll talk a little bit more about that. Special day here in the world of Ramsey Solutions.

But first, Alex joins us in Charlotte, North Carolina. Alex, how can we help? Hey, how's it going? Appreciate you guys. You bet. Thank you and giving to the world. Thank you. Here's the thing. I have a couple of questions. I'm looking to see if I should file for bankruptcy just to clear some debt off and, you know, eventually get access to some finance and things like that. I currently have about $25,000 in charge off some credit card debt due to, because I'm a licensed general contractor and I'm pretty much got into a bad deal back in 2020. And of course, I had to run up a few of my credit cards and things went bad because I was around COVID. So those automatically charged off.

So now it's kind of pinning me at the tail right now. And this, and put those charges on my account, you know, and it was roughly about 11 credit cards. So it, it kind of, you know, got me, got me by the, you know what, at this point. So I'm looking to get some advice, if I should go ahead and do that, or just try to call the actual collection agencies and try to settle them on a debt.

But then again, it stays on. And when I tried to recently apply for like a refinance on a property I have, they basically was like, man, there's nothing you can do. You have those charge offs on your account. So I'm looking for some advice on that. Tell me a little more about the property. Oh, the property that I had? Yeah. Oh, okay. Well, it was a deal I bought. And of course, it was hard to find like workers

because it was probably roughly about an hour and a half away from where I was from. So of course, it was hard to find, like, workers because it was probably roughly about an hour and a half away from where I was from. So, of course, I did a lot of the work. Things got slow on some other projects. So, of course, I had to spend, you know, started using my credit card and things like that. Well, what she's asking is, is it a home? Is it just land? Is the home finished? Tell us specifically what this is.

Is it a personal residence? Is it a rental? No, it was a rental at that point. So where is it now? Because you're speaking about it in past tense. Do you still own it? Did you sell it? I sold it. No, I sold it. I actually sold it. And when I sold it, I just pretty much broke even. Did you make a profit?

Okay, you broke even. No, no. Yeah, I broke even. So you got the charged off credit cards, 11 credit cards. Did you say $25,000 or $35,000? Not that it matters much. I would say about $30,000. About $30,000. Okay, let's find out exactly how much that is.

That's thing one. Can you tell me a little bit more about the other debt that you have, Alex? The other debt I have, I have about $15,000 left in student loans. Yeah, $15,000 left in student loans and also another $15,000 on a car and another $5,000 left on a work truck. Okay, five-cannol work truck. And those are the only vehicles? Yes, exactly. Okay. And tell me more about your income.

What are you earning every month? And what do you do for a living? I'm a licensed general contractor. So I earn roughly about anywhere from $10,000 a month. Do a lot of service work and stuff like that. You said anywhere from $10,000. Does that mean $10,000 and up or $10,000 and below? About $10,000 and below. Okay.

Average. So on most months, you're making around $10,000. And on a bad month, what do you make? On a bad month, probably about $6,000. Okay. Okay, so $6,000 to $10,000. Yeah, I'm not going into bankruptcy for this. It feels like a lot of debt.

It is a lot of debt, but you've got a good income and you can overcome this debt. Is it just you? Do you have a significant other, a wife, any kids? Just you. Oh, look, Alex, we're about to clean this up. What I think the problem is, is you're trying to do the most would you say that ken he's trying to do so much yeah i think you're overwhelmed um i i want before jay does gonna break this finance stuff down but but i want to just pause for a second

because i think it'll it'll give her some more information i mean my father-in-law is a general contractor my dad and brother have done gc before. You're in the greater Charlotte, North Carolina area. My man, there's plenty of work for you to get out there with your ability to do a lot of different things. And I know that I'm right about this. You should be making more money. And that's part of this. You need to, instead of be worrying about bankruptcy, and Jay's going to walk you through that. My pitch to you, my friend, is you're taking every job. You're doing bathroom refinishes. You're doing restoration everywhere you can do it because as a general contractor, my friend,

you have no lid on your income, and Jade is right. We can clean this junk up pretty quick, especially because you've got a work truck. I want to know about the car, Jade. I want to know about the car, Jade. I want to know about the car. Look, it's just you and you're making six figures a year. Okay. And should be making more. I don't think, Alex, that you have any organization around your money because the fact that you have these charge off accounts and you're like, it may be around 30,000. It may be, I need you to know these numbers like shark tank. Okay. I want you to know exactly what you owe. I want you to know these numbers like Shark Tank. Okay. I want you to know

exactly what you owe. I want you to know exactly. Matter of fact, I want to get you on an every dollar budget. Have you heard of that? No, never. Okay. So every dollar is our budgeting app here at Ramsey Solutions. It's the best budgeting app you're going to find, Alex. It's so easy. I'm not a technology savvy person. And even I use it. I've been using it for since 2015. And it gets you organized, you put in your income, or you put in your case, your projected income and list out Alex, every single thing for the month that you think that you might spend money on. I'm talking about fixed and fixed expenses, variable expenses, anything that you think you might spend money on, I want you to list it out. And then it's going to do the math for you to tell you, okay, here's what you have left.

And in your case, you should have a couple thousand dollars of margin, several thousand dollars of margin left. Okay. Your living situation, what are you paying right now for your living situation? Uh, roughly about $1,300 a month. Yeah. That's right on par. You're not paying too much for rent. Get a roommate, bro. Honestly, Ken, he could, but... Are you kidding me right now? Look, roommate...

Yes, dude. You know what's happening to you? Okay, you know what? All right, here's the deal, Alex. You're letting life happen to you. You need to start happening to your life. Okay. Young man, you've got all kinds of potential.

I'm saying that from a place of belief. Yeah. Now, I'm going to tell you something right now. We're running out of time, but I'm going to tell life. Okay. Young man, you've got all kinds of potential. I'm saying that from a place of belief. Yeah. Now, I'm going to tell you something right now. We're running out of time, but I'm going to tell you right now. If you have any equity in that car, I'm selling the car. You got a work truck. You work for you. You can figure that out with your tax account and what you need to write off for that and

what's personal, but I'm selling the car. I'm making money like crazy. I'm getting a roommate and shaving my rent in half, and I'm putting all that that I'm selling the car. I'm making money like crazy. I'm getting a roommate and shaving my rent in half, and I'm putting all that that I'm saving towards the debt snowball. Hang on the line. What can we get him into besides every dollar? We can get him into FPU, Total Money Makeover. Hang on the line.

Austin is going to hook you up with all the goods. We have got you, Alex, but you've got to commit to starting to be intentional. We've got a plan. We're going to hook you up. Hang on. We've got a plan. We're going to hook you up. Hang on. Austin's got you. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back, America. You've joined a conversation about your life, specifically your money, your work, and your relationships. All three of those areas of your life, very big, very important, but all connected. And we were here to help you win in those three areas.

I'm Ken Coleman. I'm joined by my colleague, the fantastic Jade Warshaw, joining me here this hour, 888-825-5225, 888-825-5225. Jade is a specialist in your money. I'm going to be specializing with your work life, meaning I'm hating it or I'm doing it, but I want to pivot. I want to get promoted. I want to make more money. I want to experience more meaning. I can help with that. And by the way, you can make all those moves while still working through the baby steps. So if you've

got work-related questions today, I would love to help you out with those, and Jade weighs in as well. Let's go now to Candice, who joins us on the line in Sacramento, California. Candice, how can we help? Hi, thanks for taking my call. You bet. So my husband and I are in baby step two. We've still got about $120,000 to. Um, but we've been trying to have a baby for years now. Um, we've had two losses and we're about to start going to a fertility clinic. So I was just, I've heard about, you know, stork mode when you're pregnant and expecting, was wondering what you really recommend for this situation because insurance only covers about 50%. So we're looking to start spending a

lot of money and I don't want to take out more loans for that. So do I go into like a stork mode and just to cash flow the treatment or what do you suggest? I would. That's what I would do. I wouldn't let anything stop me from having a baby. Especially if I can pay, as long as I'm paying cash for it. Absolutely, Ken. I agree. And Candice, let me say that my wife Stacy and I went through seven years of infertility. So I just want to kind of speak to your heart here and say that you're going to be a mama. I believe that. I don't know how, and I do not know when, but I understand what you guys are going through, certainly from a male perspective. I don't know how, and I do not know when, but I understand what you guys are going through, certainly from a male perspective. I do not understand the female perspective, but walk

through that with Stacey. And I know this is a tough time, and I agree wholeheartedly with Jade. This is your process. I don't want you to go into debt, do everything possible to not go one penny into debt. But yes, I would absolutely pursue this do you know what it's going to cost have you been able to research that a little bit um yeah so it looks like um each round of iui is going to be about thousand dollars okay um and then if we end up being you know if we don't find success and we go through ivf route my out-of-pocket will be like $15,000. Okay. And do you feel confident that you guys can cash flow that?

I mean, I know we can, the $1,000. The $15,000 is what really scares me. You know, and I'm planning, want to plan for the worst case scenario. Well, so let me interrupt for just a second because I don't want you to misunderstand what Jade and I are saying. Yes, we want you to do this, but when you're going, I'm scared, then I would compile the 15 before I start this. I would not go down this route where your heart's going to go, we're going to the next level, and then we get there and we have nothing. That is so detrimental. And so I would be sitting down at the kitchen table tonight, Jade,

and I'd be going, what must we do to scrap, scrape, everything but steal $15,000? I'm looking for what I can sell. I'm looking for what we can, I mean, I'm sure you've got a good amount of margin already because you've been doing the debt snowball. What's your margin every month? We have about $3,000 every month. Okay. So if we're really- In five months? When we're really strong. Yeah. In five months? No. If you were to side hustle, can you get this in six months, five months? If you were to add a little to that? Yeah, probably. I've been working on a side hustle that I started a couple months ago, but it's slow going.

No, no. So let me tell you what I mean by side hustle and what Jade means. We don't mean start your own little business. This is a side job. Part time. You are going and you are stocking groceries at the grocery store for $16 an hour. I want $20 an hour, Ken. Well, yeah, I'm just giving an example.

Go get you what you can get. I don't want to hang the grocery job on you yeah saying that with the margin that jade found for you guys and i heard you say well three thousand a month if we're really really disciplined i don't know what else is going to make you more disciplined than trying to get a baby yeah and so this is serious business you cannot cannot allow. The thing that I think is going to put a dent in it is student loans starting next month. Coming back. But that's reality. And let's talk about that. Hey, we're going to talk about, keep listening because we're going to talk about student loans and I'm going to talk about some things that I think are going to help you. It's not for this call right now, but keep listening. And I would, you know, if you guys are to a bare

bones budget now, you got $3,000 of margin. Great. Can you and your, you know, if you guys are to a bare bones budget now, you got $3,000 of margin, great. Can you and your, I think each of you and your husband can find another $1,000 a month. I think you can. I know you can. And it is going to require a lot of work.

But again, if you can do that, it's five or six months of work. It's half a year. And then you can go into these treatments feeling confident that, okay, now I hope the $1,000 thing works for you and you don't even have to go that next route. But if you do, you'll have the peace of knowing, hey, we've got the cash here. We won't be making an emotional decision and we're fully prepared for it.

Yeah. You cannot, Candice, you cannot allow the thought to enter your mind that we'll just borrow it. You don't want that. You can do this. By the way, you and your husband have been very patient. There's very few things harder than waiting on a baby. Yeah.

And that tells me you guys can wait long enough, and it shouldn't be very long, to come up with 15 cash, put it aside, and that's if we need to get it. We're hoping that the other treatments work. And let me also say this, Candice, I want the best. I'm hoping the best, but there's no guarantee that any of this stuff works. And so your mindset has to be, I have to make good decisions in the now that don't hurt me in the next. Because the last thing you want is a bunch of debt on something that didn't work yikes you know what i mean i don't want to be grieving jade and then paying on something i'm grieving yeah that's tough well i for one am believing that this is gonna this i am no i know you are but i just wanted i wanted to end it on that

i know that but i feel like we have to say that, though, because debt sucks enough. But then when it's tied to something that hurts. It turns a blessing. That was a blessing to a burden. Yeah, and we don't want that. Let's go to Beth now in Los Angeles. Beth, how can Jade and I help? Hi.

Okay, so I have a question. We bought, it started, we're on baby step two. I am selling everything. I've got two Facebook marketplace meetups today because I'm trying to get my debt paid off. So I am trying. I have a question. I filled out my public loan service loan forgiveness. I have $89,000 in student loan debt. One of them is $48,000 and then I have $220,500. The $48,000 one, I have 41 payments left in order for me to qualify for public service loan forgiveness. So four years? Yeah, so four years, basically three years and six months. My question is, is when I do the every dollar, it says like track your like that snowball, correct? So I have a car loan for $5,000 and then I have two student loans at $20,500 and then I have this one at $48,000. That would be the last one I'll pay off. If I make the minimum payment um just kind of per Dave

Ramsey's every dollar app right now I'm at six years for my payoff date my question is is should I still just like work on the minimum monthly payments for my 48,000 and since the public loan forgiveness should forgive it in almost four years what I would do, I would not focus on the loan forgiveness because I think you can do this faster than what you think. So we've got, let's see, $80,000 plus the car. How much are you earning every month? So we're at $10,000 every month. When I break everything down, I can make on loan payments about $1,500 is like I can throw towards my monthly payment. What are you paying a month for a rent? $3,400.

All right. Your rent's too high. You're spending way too much. We need to find a way to get this rent down. I don't know if it's just you. It sounds like there's somebody else there. And I think you can do this faster. I would never wait around for forgiveness.

You need to side hustle. Whoever's working with you on this, if it's a spouse, they need to get on board and let's get this paid off quickly. I'm not waiting around four years, Ken Coleman. No, no.

And I wouldn't guarantee that it's going to get forgiven anyway. We got to stop waiting on this. Go ahead. Follow the baby steps. The debt snowball. That's the, 2%. We've got to stop waiting on this. Go ahead, follow the baby steps. The debt snowball. That's the plan. No deviation.

This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show where we talk with you about your life, specifically your money, your work, and your relationships. I'm Ken Coleman, joined by Jade Warshaw this hour. 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225 is the number to jump in.

Let's go to Grand Island, Nebraska, where Matt is. Matt, how can we help? Hey, guys. Thanks for taking my call. You bet. What's up? Hey, just a quick question. Ken, Ken, I guess this is more in your wheelhouse here. I'm currently working for a company that I've been with for around five years now, and I feel like, compared to other people in my industry, I feel like I'm, I guess, inadequately paid. I was just wondering, with an eval coming up here in about a couple of weeks,

I was wondering how the best way eval coming up here in about a couple of weeks, I was wondering how the best way is to ask for a raise. Yeah, okay, let's go to what you said there. You feel like you're inadequately paid. Is that feeling based on any kind of fact? Yeah, so I work in the ag industry, and kind of related to my job. I know other people are making probably $30,000 more than me. Similar skill, similar experience? I'd say for them it'd be less work, but maybe more year-round type stuff. Like I'm paid a salary, obviously, but summers and springs and falls are more labor intensive than like winters because it isn't the ag industry so when crops aren't growing you know not not not a lot to do

well okay and i don't want to get in the weeds here but why i'm asking about similar skill and experiences is if you can actually walk in and that's what i'm trying to get you to is walk in and go look i did some research and based on the market, and that's again, using that term as a here's, if I look at high, medium and low on the range of salary or hourly pay, because it's all the same basic deal for you in this situation, where are you with those people that are making much more than you? So are you middle? Are you low? And then is the experience and the skill set very similar to where you could go, based on this, it looks as though I could make this in the marketplace. I want to start there. So I want to make sure we get this.

Do you feel like you've got the evidence, real fact-based evidence that you could show on paper with real sources that you are underpaid yes so i have uh some friends that do in the same industry as something different and um they have told me and i've actually kind of looked into some other things okay that they that that kind of backs I've... When was the last time you got a raise, if you've been there five years? So it's every year, but it's only... For the past five years I've been there, I've probably got like a 15% raise since I started, which I started and it wasn't...

Okay. So you're getting about the 3% raise, which is pretty standard. Mm-hmm. A 3% bump every year, so that's what you're getting. And so what would this equate to if you got the if you got if you got the bump that you want how much of a bump would it be percentage wise um i've run the numbers and so i guess without getting too deep into it we get paid based on like how much we bring in essentially and um is that a commission job no it's more of a like a revenue based or like certain goals and then you get like a certain

percentage um if that makes sense it does so so i guess it's um sitting with some other people in our company that have kind of helped me out with coming up or coming up. They said that kind of shoot for the stars and ask for like a 60% to 50% raise just to see what they would do there. All right. So here's my advice. Okay. And you can take what you like of this and you can leave what you don't like. I always tell people don't come in and just say I want a raise I just think that coming in and

dropping it like that just always creates a situation where your leader could feel very defensive and they're trying to how do I answer that they want to have time to figure that out so what I would come in and say I would just say. Over the last five years at these evals, I'm getting the 3% bump. It's come to my attention. I've done the research. I've got friends and people that work at other organizations. Don't mention anybody internally. Just like, this is what I've seen out there in the marketplace. And I want to get there. And so the question is, can we come to some sort of agreement on how I can get there? I'd like to get there now, but I also know that you've got to measure my performance. I just don't want to make demands. I want to make a request. Do you see the difference? Yes. And I want to say, I've done

the research and I should, I mean, the marketplace says I could make this. I'd like to make that here. What has to be true for that to happen? And leave it in his, in he or her lap, his or her lap on that. Don't just go in and demand it. Say, what has to be true for me to get there because I want to get there. And so they're going to automatically know that you've done your homework and that you see a much better opportunity out there. And so you're going to find out pretty quickly whether or not they want you there and what they're willing to do. And I think that just, that is going to force the conversation without demanding it. So yes, ask for it, but not directly. It's an indirect ask to go, I want to be making this. How realistic is that here? And if it's

realistic, what do I have to do? Those are the two specific questions. Then you know where you stand. Exactly. I think the way you approach this is everything. Having the facts, having the information, the tone, you know what I'm saying? All that matters. And you've got a great spirit about you. So I don't in any way see you going in there, sliding a paper across the desk going, I'd like you to respond to that. That's the old school way to slide the number. Does that help? Yes, it helps a lot. Thank you. Yeah. But the facts, listen, the facts, the facts, the facts when it comes to this kind of thing and tell people this is what I'd like and I'd like to know, is it possible?

There was a two-part question there. And then what must happen for this to be possible? Then you're going to find out really fast. You get a gray answer and they go, but when I get back to you and they never get back to you, there's your sign. That's so good, Ken. That's such good advice. So many people go into that conversation based on the way they feel oh yes and not only that but

what they feel they're entitled to yeah yeah and by the way you might be right but that doesn't mean that the boss thinks that you're right true that so you've got to bring them along and i'm a little bit nervous about the advice he got from his coworkers because he's gotten a 3% bump for five straight years and they're telling him, hey, shoot for the moon. Okay. What's that? Ask for a 50% raise. Well, if you can't document that that's reasonable, here's what you do. Your genius coworkers told you to shoot for the moon. You just shot yourself in the foot. Yeah, you did. You did. So come on. lot that's a big unless you could like show how you have show it doubled you know the revenue that you've created for that company you know something like that it's like

otherwise you i think of a sports metaphor here and this is really important because this is an issue that always gets controversy when i get asked and it's on social media but if you got let's take football football season about ready to start okay and let's say let's say you're a two or three year running back you've had a couple of good years you didn't lead the league you weren't an all pro you're a good running back and you don't like your contract situation and you and your agent go in there and you start demanding I want this this and this well guess what they're going to do if you ask for an outrageous salary that is not at the market value of an nfl running back that is in your position guess what they're going to say they're going to say i can find a guy that does it just like you i just drafted a kid i just drafted

a kid that may be as good as you and i have to pay him the league minimum. Okay. And that's where you shoot yourself in the foot by overplaying a hand like you've got aces and you got, let's call it four six, not even suited. You like that poker analogy? I like that, Ken. Good job. So a lot of people, just because I feel like I want to make more money, doesn't mean that I've got a strong case to make more money. And feelings will get you in trouble fast.

Yeah. And there's always that thing. Is there somebody standing right behind you that does the job just as good as you that would be happy with that salary? I promise you. You know what they'll do? They'll go to somebody and go, listen, I'm going to give you a nice little bump to take half their workload

just for about six months. I promise you your coworker is going to be like, bye. See ya. Bye. What's that song? Bye, Felicia. That's it. Is there an NSYNC song?

Friday. Bye, bye, bye. Is that NSYNC? Bye, bye, bye. There it is. See, when you co-host with Jade Warshaw, you tee her up and she sings a bar for you. I'm always ready. And sings it well.

She's Jade. I'm Ken ready. And sings it well. She's Jade. I'm Ken. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show, where we talk with you about your life, specifically your money, your work, and your relationships. I'm Ken Coleman. Jade Warshaw joins me, and we're here for you. 888-825-5225 is the you. 888-825-5225 is the number.

888-825-5225. And if you're new to the program, and, Jade, this is exciting. We were in a meeting recently where we're hearing about just a lot of new people coming to us from all over the place. Every platform, radio, SiriusXM, podcast, YouTube. It's extraordinary. And so we want to welcome you but we also know we've got this jargon we got this language like baby steps gazelle intense baby step six baby step two dead snowball a lot of stuff and you're going okay I'm trying to catch up right so we'd love

to invite you to go to our website ramsaysolutions.com and we have a wonderful little get started assessment takes just a couple minutes and it'll kind of get you caught up to where you are in your finances and and help you understand oh i get the steps now i see where i am and i see what i've got to do so go to ramseysolutions.com and click on get started and that'll catch you up pretty quickly and we got a lot of great resources for you let's go to the phones tamp Tampa, Florida is where Patrick is. Patrick, how can we help? Yeah, thanks for taking my call. Yeah, you bet. What's up? So last night, me and my wife sat down to a meeting with our financial advisor, and it was in regards to options for saving for college. We already have a 529 for my youngest daughter, and my

oldest daughter has a prepaid plan that her grandfather paid for years ago when she was born. So last night, the financial advisor tried to sell us on a whole life insurance plan as an option for saving for my youngest daughter's college. Red flag. Obviously. Yeah, huge red flag, right? Okay. All right. So I'm not crazy. Obviously. Yeah, huge red flag, right? Okay, all right.

So I'm not crazy. No, you know what I need? I need a yellow flag like the NFL refs and I just throw it at the camera when I hear stuff like that. Let's go, Ken. I wish I had one. I like that.

Tell him why that's crazy, Jade. I just, it's such a bad product financially and you have the ability to lose so much money on the investment side, I can't imagine any investment advisor worth their salt suggesting that unless they're just trying to get more commission out of you. And that's honestly what's happening in this case. 100, as the kids say. Who is this guy? Is this somebody you knew before? Is this an uncle?

You can just drop him like it's hot then. So we, we were very interested in biblically responsible investing. I'm saying that right. Yeah. And, uh, we went through, I'm going to drop names, inspire insight. And, uh, he was an, he was a financial advisor that works with them that, uh, like contacted us. And, you know, we were like we just agreed like hey this guy sounds good we're on baby step seven we're doing great so let's let's just go with this guy and you know and um you don't even need a red flag last night you know patrick first of all as jade said it's bad and and and we have a very clear positions on a whole

life which she can explain to our audience if necessary but let me tell you you don't even need it based on what you laid out you guys have already got your 529 set up and and now it's just play the play the plan you don't need it yeah oh we were just looking for options because the 529 through florida florida prepaid doesn't offer bri like options you know so that's the only reason we were going like looking and asking him so okay so let's let me kind of make sure i understand this because i'm not really sure what the 529 has anything to do with your life insurance right i i right for me it has zero to do with it because for for you and for anybody listening the purpose of life insurance is to replace your income for anybody who's dependent on your income that's the only reason for it and many people get

to a point with their net worth that they don't even really need it anymore because if they were to pass away there's enough there to take care of anybody who would have been dependent on that on that income so on that note, the two are not related. I still would suggest, unless you've got a super high net worth that we don't know about, I would still suggest that you go with a term life plan. Do you understand why we're suggesting that?

Oh yeah, totally. And we have term life plans. And really, maybe my ultimate question is, should I be looking for another financial advisor? I would. I don't like when people try to take me for a ride. That's my thing. He was assuming that you didn't understand. And so he tried to play you. And I don't like that. And you came in the way you should with your own set of knowledge, understanding things, and you were able to go, hey, this is a red flag. Now, for me, that would be enough for me to move on. It really would. You could bring it to them and say, hey, here's why I don't want to do this.

And you could lay it out and say, I don't like this cash value thing. I don't like the investment. I don't like the fact that I can get a better rate of return if I invest that same sum of money myself. I don't like the fact that when I die, someone else gets the cash value, like, or that, you know, the company keeps the cash value. If you say it to him like that, and I don't like the fact that you sold me a product that's worse for me so you could get a better commission. I would, I just like confrontation. So I might just like to have that conversation just to see how he'd react. But if he says anything less than, I am like confrontation, so I might just like to have that conversation just to see how he'd react. But if he says anything less than, I am so sorry, I don't know what I was thinking, maybe you could try to pick up the pieces, but I'd probably just move on.

It's like trying to argue with somebody in a cult. It ain't going to win. I'm serious. You're not going to win. So I agree with Jay, but I would move on. Yeah, he tried to make money off you. Let's be very clear. Let's invest in things that are specific to what we need. And you've already got the 529s ready to go. You've got your insurance. You don't need whole life. And this BRI thing also freaks me

out a little bit. There's nothing in the Bible about whole life insurance. So let's be very careful. I want you to hop on with Ramsey with one of our providers because we've got several smart master players in your area yeah we interview them exactly and and that's the key interview these folks i'm not just talking to our caller anybody who's out there these people are working for you we we can't tiptoe around them like you know scared to ask questions and scared to put them on the spot you're giving them a percentage. You're paying them. They, they, in essence, you are their employee because you're providing work for them and you're paying them for their service. And so interview them and don't be afraid to be like hard pass. Yeah. And, and listen, you cannot invest in anything that you do not

understand. That's a fact. You can't take their word for it. You've got to know it in this case to Patrick credit. Uh, he's like, he did know it whole life stinks it smells i don't like it um and i do think you need to be with someone that you're aligned with you should and i can what i commend him on is sometimes when we get in a situation with people who are good at math right they're they're good with money we start questioning we just have that imposter syndrome and assume they know more than us but your instinct does count for something and when you're talking with someone and you get that feeling of like oh like uh i didn't like that yeah the spidey sense goes off you know you get the the heebie-jeebies oh that's a good one you know i've had a case of the heebie-jeebies a time or two. Hopefully I didn't give them to you.

No, no, no, never. But you know, you're right. You just don't have a piece about it. You don't have peace. Yep. You know, and it's like, okay, what's happening here and why is it happening? Yeah, that doesn't feel right. Yeah.

And when that happens, stop and do what our guy did and talk to your spouse, call into the show. And if you don't get peace then move on yeah and by the way we need to be clear when we talk about smart investor pros they are not employees of this no they don't work for us they are independent financial advisors that are very very good they are in alignment with a philosophy but if you go to ramseysolutions.com and we really recommend this click on the smart SmartVestor Pro button, talk to a few, go meet with them. It's kind of like picking your hairdresser or your dentist. That's good, Ken.

You know what I mean? It's kind of be like, I'm not going to let anybody put their hands in my mouth. Yeah. They're going to be all up in your stuff. You better make sure you trust them. Yeah. And to your point, you said something earlier. They shouldn't be selling you on something that makes them a nice commission. They should be helping you make money. And because you make money, they make money. Bingo. Big difference. That's a big difference. And that's what we're saying. That's why we don't like whole life. It is not a good by the numbers program. It does not benefit you. That's right. You're paying a larger

amount per month because that money is being split over two areas. You're getting your death benefit, but there's also a portion of your payment that's being invested over time. That's a cash benefit, right? But the problem there is the money that's being invested, the rate of return on that, guys, is so poor. Sometimes it's like 2%, Ken. 2%.

You better invest that money yourself. The only thing I like that's 2% is a glass of milk. No, Ken. I'm not with you on that. It's because you're a clean, healthy eater. That's right. But for people like me that like to live a little bit. Give me the cashew milk, Ken.

Say, Jay, you ain't having no fun drinking cashew milk. I promise you right now. I'm having fun when I dunk my Oreo into some real milk. All right. We'll fight about that on the break. She's Jade Warshaw. I'm Ken Coleman. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, it's Ken. If you love the show and want a deeper dive on your money journey, we have a weekly newsletter that gives you trending and helpful articles and tips on following the Ramsey way. Go to ramsesolutions.com today to sign up for our newsletter. Again, that's ramsesolutions.com to sign up for our weekly newsletter.