The Ramsey Show - App - Quit Letting Your Money Boss You Around and Tell IT What To Do!

Episode Date: August 22, 2024

from the Ramsey Network it's the Ramsey show I'm Jade Warshaw next to me is Dr. John Deloney and we're taking your calls we're talking about your life and your money we're helping people build wealth do work that they love and have amazing relationships. This is a live show. You can give us a call if you want to call in. The number is 888-825-5225. And we'll try and get you on the line and try to hook you up with the advice that you need. All right, John, you ready to do this? Let's go. Let's go straight to the phone lines. We've got Jodi in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. What up, Jodi? Hi, how are you? Doing great. How can we help today? Hi. Well, I can't believe I called in and doing this. But anyways, I am in a very emotionally abusive, emotionally and financially abusive relationship.

I've been with him for 18 years. We have a nine-year-old daughter and I need out. And I start trying to figure out plans and I like, well, research this and research that. And then I'll put this in order. And then I become this paralyzed whirlpool of this is, you know what I'm saying? Like I could probably help other people, but my brain, and I'm just emotionally exhausted too. So I don't think that helps. What happened, Jodi? Something happened that said, you said, this is enough. What happened? You know, I think I have a blood clotting disorder and I had a blood clot at the beginning of the summer, a deep vein blood clot in my leg. And they are incredibly painful. Also potentially

life-threatening. I've had a couple of ones. I had one in my pelvis after my pregnancy that came close to damaging my heart. I had some in my lungs, things like that. So it's a really serious thing. And, um, I am sitting on the recliner and he comes home from work and starts screaming at me to get off my lazy butt that I'm on his chair and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I mean, that's just one example. And I mean, my daughter and I are both staring at him and I said, I don't know why you think you can talk to me like that. And I mean, you know, like it's a big deal. My blood clot is a big deal. And I just I've been done before.

And then things happened and I allowed my plans to become derailed and everything like that. And so I've been trying to... Do me a favor right now, Jodi. Uh-huh. Where is all of this in your body? Is it in your chest? It is. Okay.

Take your fist and put it in your chest right now. Uh-huh. Take a humongous deep breath, real big, and then exhale it out. Drop your shoulders as low as you can go pull them down okay okay and here's why we're doing this exercise this is what happens inside your mind too yeah when you start researching stuff isn't it it spins faster and faster and faster and faster yes and then it feels chaotic and then your daughter comes in and says hey can you help me with my lunch tomorrow and then you're off to the next thing.

And this thing never resolves itself and it just spins faster and it's heavier and heavier. Yes. The only way I've learned, and I'm like you, I get pretty emotional, got a heart. I don't have anything like what you're dealing with at home, but when I get emotional, I spin and I go faster and faster and faster. And the only way I've learned to be able to walk through those things is with other people. I have been gathering my friends and family. I've kind of explained where I'm at. But listen to me, you're doing a lot of, you're using other people and you're using your internet searches as Xanax. Yes. You need to find somebody. I want a practical plan. You need to sit with a lawyer that you're paying, that you are on the

clock with, because that will force you to laser in and say, what do you want to do next? Otherwise, you just have a bunch of people that you talk to and talk to and talk to and talk to and talk to. And you've got to have a gang. You've got to have people that will listen to you and that will sit with you and will show up with casseroles, but you need to have somebody who will say, here's what happens if you do A, here's what happens with B. And someone that will walk you through step-by-step, here is legally and practically what happens next. And there'll be financial ramifications. There will be custody ramifications. There will be all sorts of ramifications.

Yeah. But I want you to stop spinning and sit with somebody. And by the way, some attorneys aren't people of character and they'll take your money. They'll let you spend all day long and they'll just put you on the clock. Most of the ones I've ever met with care deeply about their clients and they will say, okay, if you're hiring me to go to war, let's go to war. Yeah. So I'm going to ask you, what's your next move? I will, well, lawyer, retainer. I have a friend who said that she would help me get the money.

I have no money. I have nothing. Well, that's my next question is what does this mean for you? Because you've got to eat. Yes. And I met with an employment specialist. I had gotten a therapist and a psychiatrist because I was depressed. And I was undiagnosed ADHD for many years.

Tell me about your job. Tell me about your job. Oh, she's so awesome. But, but this is, this is why I need to go. This is taking its toll on her. And as he was sitting there yelling at me, I'm like, I don't want her to think that. No, no, I'm sorry. Tell me about your job, not your child. Tell me about your job. What are you going to do for money? If you leave, how are you going to eat and where are you going to live? I told the employment specialist we're meeting next week to help me with my resume. And I, my heart is in the nonprofit world. However, I told them that my first priority is to make enough money for me to be able to live on my own and support my daughter. Have you ever done that before? to live on my own and support my daughter. There you go. Have you ever done that before?

Lived on my own, yes. Okay. Then you can do it again. Well, kind of, as a student, yes. Okay. I know I can do this. That's the thing. I know that I can do this.

I keep tripping myself up. I know I'm worth more, more than anything. And the reason I'm willing to accept help from my friends and family financially is that I owe my daughter more and part of the reason that I've been also kind of not putting it off is I know it's I know he's going to make it so ugly and I know he's going to drag her in it but I tell myself he's already dragged her in it yeah and I've allowed it and in leaving him I think I hope that that means I'm not dragging her in it I'm dragging her out of it and if he continues to drag her in it I will just have to

do my best to so let's let's solve that let's solve that problem when we get there let's do the next right thing in front of us. And Jade's going to walk you through the four walls. But these are the things I want you to put on a list. I want you to sit down with a trusted friend or a couple friend that you trust that you can walk through what this actually means. Because these have to be real numbers. They can't be feelings and thoughts. They have to be real numbers.

And I want you to sit with an attorney. And if you need to leave and go stay with somebody because your home's not safe, then do that right now, like today. Physically, I'm safe. I am physically safe. I really do believe that, but not mentally. Yeah. When you make that leap and you walk out of this thing, the thing that you're going to have to focus on first is just making sure that you can pay for your shelter. You've got to find a place that you can live, that you can afford. After that it's utilities. After that it's food. After that it's transportation because you need to be able to get to work and back. And so those four things before you get off the line today, we're going to get you set up with every dollar and totally for free so that you can use that. You can start

budgeting. You can start looking at what your life is going to look like financially. I think that you making this choice, I know you said you were worried about dragging your daughter through it, but she's also going to see something really great of a woman who says, I'm not going to be treated like this. And I get to decide. And she's going to take that and carry that with her. And it's going to mean a lot for her.

So tough stuff. Good job, John. We're blessed. We're praying for you call us back anytime statistics show that half of americans don't have enough life insurance or they don't have any at all i don't understand this john why don't people want to take care of their family they think they're not going to die or something well i used to be one of those guys i didn't even think about it and one of my buddies said,

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used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to Zander.com or call 800-356-4282. You're listening to The Ramsey Show. I'm Jade Warshaw, joined by Dr. John Deloney. Today, as we take your calls, you can give us a call. Number's 888-825-5225. Get in where you fit in. Hey, guys, all the time we're talking about the steps and the changes that you need to make

in order to change your money, your career, your mental health, even your relationships every single day because we know none of it is happening by accident, okay? It takes intentionality to do this. It takes hard work. So here's how we're gonna come alongside you and help you. We're excited to announce that today we're having a one day, today only, flash sale.

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Don't wait guys, the sale ends today when the stock market closes. I don't know if it's at five o'clock. At 1159 p.m. I feel like one of those floppy guys in front of a car dealership. The wacky wavies? The wacky wavy. Is that what they're called? Are they called? There we go. At 1159. Don't put the camera on me for that. Thursday, August 22nd. Make it happen. 10 bucks. Go get them. Y'all don't want to see my wacky wavy? They refuse. There it is. They cut away. I know. Nobody wants to see that. All rightall don't want to see my Wacky Wavy? They refuse. There it is. They cut away. I know. Nobody wants to see that. Alright, let's go to the phones. We should start a band called the Wacky Wavys. I like it. That's an

amazing band. Slide Guitar? Slide Guitar. Okay, let's go. Natasha is in Kansas City, Missouri. What's going on, Natasha? Hi, guys. How are you? Good. What do you think about the band name Wacky Wavy? Oh, I don't know. I'm probably not the right person to ask.

That means we're on to something. I'm not a musician. I'm not a musician. I don't know. Well, how can we help you today? Well, so I just wanted to listen to the show all the time. Long time worst litter, first time caller. So my husband and I have several rental properties. And a couple of years ago, we bought a property with the idea that his mom, who is in the midst of a divorce, could live in that house. And obviously we didn't want to dictate anything for her, but she's been living there and she, I think, would like to stay, which

we're totally fine with. But she has approached us about maybe putting an addition on the house. And I think it's fine. I want, we desperately want her to be happy and, you know, we want it to be a blessing to her. But we've never had a business partner in any of our like rental properties and so i feel a little bit weird with the idea of her paying for some portion even though i know she's living in the house so i just wanted to make sure like i'd love to just like give her the green light we really would be tickled honestly if she it's a blessing to her and she stays forever as far as we're concerned but is there anything i'm not thinking of yeah you know that i should i mean listen i love your heart on this i think that you love your mother-in-law you want you know to her to feel like the place is hers um it's not hers it's yours um is she paying

you rent or do you let her live there rent free no no she's not paying us rent i mean we did we we vetted at the property as a rental with the idea that if she didn't like it we would rent it out okay you have other rental properties that's part of our portfolio so you're just using the other properties to to float this one or is it paid for in cash so we will have this property paid off by the end of next year. And we have one other, we have, we have a total left of mortgages between our three, between three of two are paid off. Great.

Five total properties. They'll, they'll all be paid off in the next probably three and a half years. So then back to this idea of the addition on the house. Um, I think because here's where I think, I think if you let her pay for this, um, and something happens because no, you know, nobody knows what's around the corner, right? There's going to be some

feeling that it's her house and I put this money into the addition and it just feels like it could get very messy very quickly. Even if you put it in writing, which if you decide to do this, definitely put it in writing the amount that she's putting into it what would happen if the house were to sell or if she were to move how does she get her money back that sort of thing um but more than that you want to know what i would just do it's your house if you want an addition on it just put an addition on it that's what i would do that's what i was wondering should we just pay for it i would and it's not worth your relationship with your mother-in-law because here's what I was wondering. Should we just pay for it? I would. It's not worth your relationship with your mother-in-law. Because here's what's going to happen.

By the way, what's this addition for? So it's a cute little starter house. But I think she'd like a house that has more room for her grandkids to be over. And honestly, it's in a great neighborhood. We bought a little house with plenty of room. A lot of people in the area have done additions, so I think there's plenty of upside financially to doing

the addition. But I have this little bit of angst. Should we just pay for it? Yeah, because here's what's going to happen. You're going to pull out the back wall and you're going to find a ton of termite damage. Exactly. A nicer kitchen and she would like, she wants the washer dryer upstairs

so when she gets older it's not an issue which i told yeah it makes sense what about just moving her to one of these other houses i was gonna ask that same thing so the other properties that we have we did offer to her initially when we when she was moving and she wasn't keen that's some of the other they're all stairs they all have okay They all have stairs. This one is a single family, nice little ranch. What's it going to cost you? In a great neighborhood. To do the addition? We haven't even looked, but I'm guessing,

I would guess we wouldn't pay more than like $100,000. Do you have cash? It's a $200,000. Well, we won't do it if we don't have cash, but I love how you said that. You're like, listen. I would not take her money.

I would keep this clean. This is y'all's place. It's in our trust. And we're in a really good financial spot. I mean, we're worth several million dollars now. Yeah, you are. Good job. If y'all feel like you want to do this, I would pay for it.

I would not take her money. And I would tell her, hey, thank you so much for offering, but I want you to, we want you to live to be 125. And so we want to make sure you can afford all the way down. And we've been blessed and we can do this. It just keeps everything so clean. And it's not you I'm worried about.

It's not your husband. It's not her. It's your brother-in-law who has a gambling debt that you don't know about that turns to sue just we would not have a job if every family acted like you and your husband and your mother-in-law yeah it always goes sideways and if every contractor was honest and no trees fell through houses and so i would just keep the lines as clean as possible or deed her the house give it to her and say, this is Merry Christmas. And just make sure you put it in your will that we get it back and do that.

Give it away to her. That's pretty cool. Oh, that's an idea. I'd keep the lines as clean as possible. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Like I said, we've never had business partners or anything for that reason.

I wouldn't. Even when people call and they've done all the paperwork and they've written it the right way, there's still something that causes a saltiness or an animosity. And that's why I said before, even if you were to do all of that, it still doesn't make up for the feelings that ensue after the fact. And so I'm with John. I would either pay and have this addition put on with your own $100,000 cash,

or I would Dieter the house and say, hey, really, this is our gift to you. Whatever changes you want to make, it's yours free and clear. I like that idea. You guys have done really, really well. And this is the stuff that we talk about. You know, you live like no one else later.

You're able to give like no one else. And this is giving on a whole another level yeah and i just don't want to see next christmas there's a lot of tension because she's doing something to your house with money she doesn't have oh man just don't keep the lines clean because you love each other yeah i like that this is the ramsey show hey you guys health insurance costs are only moving one way, and that way isn't down. And if higher costs aren't enough,

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meeting financial needs. They'll also help meet spiritual needs. Members become part of a family who will pray with them and for them when they experience a medical event. So listen, y'all, there's no better way to take care of health care costs. CHM programs start as low as $98 a month. So learn more today and join at chministries.org slash budget at chministries.org slash budget. What's going on? You're listening to The Ramsey Show. My name is Jade Warshaw. Next to me is Dr. John Deloney. If you don't know, now you know. You guys need to know about Dr. John. John, tell them about yourself. My name's John. My friends call me John.

Yeah, dude, my friends call me John. My wife calls me John. Does anybody call you Johnny? My kids call me old man. No. I wanted to be Johnny because I cried a kid, but never stuck. Is it short for Jonathan? Nope.

I think they were going to call me Jonathan, and my mom said when I was born, I just look like a John. So she just John. She called it. All right. I like it. All right. She called it.

Well, he's the guy that's going to take the calls about your relationships. If you're dealing with things going on in that side of things, mental health world, wellness world, he's got you covered. I'm here for the money side. So if you want to call us, the number is 888-825-5225. If you didn't know, it's a live show. And so we'll get you covered. I'm here for the money side. So if you want to call us, the number is 888-825-5225. If you didn't know, it's a live show. And so we'll get you on. Let's go to the phone lines. Oh, before we do, let me just say, John and I have jobs because of you guys. So we're really grateful that you listen to the show, that you listen on podcasts, that you log in on YouTube, that you

pull it up, you know, you turn the radio dial, some of you, and you listen to us on the radio. And we're really grateful for that. So if you could do us a solid here and wherever you listen to the show, like it, subscribe and share. If you can do those three things, it'll cost you like two seconds of your time. And we'd be so grateful because when you do that, not only does it share the show with other people, but it makes the show more accessible, the way the Internet works and the way all these things work together. So that would help us a lot. We know that you already do it. Keep doing it is what I'm trying to say. All right. Let's go to the phone lines. We've got Nick in Chicago, Illinois, Chi-Town. What's going on, Nick? Hi, I was just calling because my wife and I are trying to save for a house and I've talked to her about having a budget.

And for some reason, she says that we can stick to a budget. And I have just used my notes app on my phone and talked about it with her. But it seems like it's like $10 here, $20 here, $50 here. And it adds up and I don't think she really realizes it. So I'm just calling to ask how I can talk to her about it in a way where she can get on board and then how she can stick to the budget that I'm wanting to stick to, if that makes sense. So there could be two things at play. It could be that the budget is not quite realistic enough.

It could be. I don't know. I always say that budgets should be three things, detailed, realistic, and flexible. So just that first pass here, there's part of me that thinks it's probably not hitting the mark in one or more of those areas. Did you tell me that you're using the notes app to budget or you're using the notes app to decide what to say to her? No, we've just written down like all of our expenses and all of our how much we make and then all of our expenses per month okay so that's another part of this you know having the right tool is what's going to make budgeting something that you can stick to

and that you can do for the long haul it makes it more enjoyable um it's really hard to stick to a budget that's written just in the notes app i'm just going to tell you that so i think i think here what we need here is the right set of tools and the right set of parameters and how to work the tool. So before you leave today, I'm going to get you set up with EveryDollar. It's the best budgeting app there is. Because on it, it's not a notes app. It's a really great app that you can have on your phone.

It's on her phone. It's working with you in time. So if you make a purchase on your phone, she sees it on her phone. And it's something as simple as, hey, I'm going to the grocery store. I just need to see how much we can spend. And you open up the app and it says $300. And you're like, great. And then when you make that purchase at the grocery store, you spent $50. It automatically goes into the app. And now you can see now I only have $250 left to spend. So it's going to do that math for you. And it's going to keep you guys on top of your numbers. I think that's going to go a really, really long way. And then it's going to do that math for you and it's going to keep you guys on top of your numbers. I think that's going to go a really, really long way.

And then it's going to help you to see, OK, the numbers that we said, are they accurate? Like, does this actually work with our life? Because it's possible, Nick, that she's going over budget because what you've said is just not a realistic amount. Could I be right about that or? Yeah, possibly. amount could i be right about that or yeah possibly i just feel like i feel like just her like knowing like how much is left or how much we like is in the budget to like go out to eat and stuff like we have like a budget for that but i feel like it always goes over but it's also a notes app so you're constantly like it's almost like an old school ledger that you're having to.

Yeah, no, I guess you mean like the app or whatever you're talking about, I feel like seems like something a lot more practical. Do y'all do this budget together? Or do you sit down and sit down? I sat down originally and wrote it. Yeah, you did. We sat down together and looked at it together and went over it together and agreed like hey this is not right this is right and then we should change a few things but that didn't seem to work how long have you been doing that um six months okay i give every dollar

a try and see if it helps next thing i want to know is the areas that she's going over, is it the same areas every month? Yeah, it's mostly just shopping and eating out. So you're both eating out or only she's eating out? Typically on her lunch break from work, she'll eat out. Okay, so she's going out for lunch. And then what's the other area you said? Shopping, like for clothes? Shopping.

Okay. So next question is, what baby step are you guys on? We're debt free. And we don't, we're pretty much saving for a house. We don't have any debt. How much have you saved so far? We're only renting. What? How much have you saved so far for the house? $24,000. Okay, good. And what's the goal? We're trying to get it as high as possible, but our goal was originally $80,000. It hasn't really

changed. The past four months, we haven't really made any progress on saving more. Okay. Let me ask you this. I'm just trying to get to the core because I don't, I don't want to say anything that's not quite right. How long did it take you to pay off your debt and save up the three to six months before you started this? Most of it was done.

Most of it was done by me before we had gotten married. So I feel I, I, we didn't, she didn't have any debt. I paid off my debt before we got married. And. Okay.

So she didn't have debt. She comes into this and it's like, we're in saving mode basically for the whole marriage. Okay. Nick, you keep saying we, there's no, we here, you paid off debt. You, you keep saying we. There's no we here.

You paid off debt. You built a budget. You want to buy a house. She wants to eat lunch with her friends and buy clothes. Yeah. Can I also ask another probing question? She tells me that she wants to buy a house. She tells me she's so passionate about it.

She can't wait to do it. She wants to do it. Yeah, but behavior is a language. So she's being pretty clear about what she really believes. What is the clothing budget? What is the food out to eat budget? Like we've said, like for like eating out for her, we said once a week, go out and eat and I said like ten dollars a week once a week that's what we agreed on so forty dollars yeah and then what's the quote the forty dollars a month and what's the shopping and then we had originally agreed on going once a month shopping with a fifty dollar budget of that okay and what's you guys' income combined? What's your combined income?

$100,000. Okay. I think that she feels a little suffocated. She's like, we make $100,000 a year. I'm working. He's working. I want to spend more than $40 on restaurants. And maybe I want to spend...

So when she goes over shopping, I'm trying to meet in the middle because I'm not saying she's right and I'm not saying you're wrong. When she goes over budget for clothes, how much does she go over? Like she's spending like $300 a month the last few months on clothes. Okay. She's tripping a little bit.

Let's be honest about that. So maybe it's, hey, I noticed you're going over $50. Isn't cutting it. Can we go to 150? Can we go to, can we go to 100? Try to meet her in the middle because what I think, what I think could be happening and John, you can pop in here, but I think she's like, we don't have any debt. Like we've got three to six months of savings. I don't want to feel so tight. I want a house, but I don't want to feel so, so tight there.

That might be going on. Try to meet her halfway on that. And, um, other than that, it's you guys sitting down and having a big kids conversation about, do we want a house or do we not want a house? And maybe it's you rolling out the numbers and saying, hey, if we keep going at this rate, we're not going to have a house until the year 2034. You know what I mean? And it's just you being honest about what's actually going on. And then, you know, see where it goes from there. It's not easy. These conversations are not easy.

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and more time focusing on what's next. And speaking of what's next, download the CFO's Guide to AI and Machine Learning at netsuite.com slash Ramsey. It's free at netsuite.com slash Ramsey. Thank you for listening to The Ramsey Show on the Ramsey Network. I'm Jade Warshaw. Next to me is Dr. John Deloney.

We're taking your calls. And here's the thing. Sometimes you guys call. We have a number here that you can leave a message if you have a question or something you want to talk about. Sometimes people call and we miss the call. So if we missed your call, sorry we missed your call. We'll get to it.

Matter of fact, we have a voicemail here from Meredith. Let's take a listen. I have a question about how'd you go from being on welfare to being in the baby steps it seems very very scary to go from being on food stamps and medicaid and all of that stuff to switching to paying for everything yourself not really sure how to change that. I know it's a mindset, but I'm not really sure how to

get from point A to point B without hurting myself and my children drastically. Thank you. Bye. Wow. Okay. That's a deep one, John. Yeah, like you said, it's a mindset. So I want to separate i

have a close friend of mine who um right before she had child number three um husband left like was in desperate need of support and care right so um i think we're i love that we can support and care people who find themselves in the margins when life happens right um i get a different vibe from meredith and i loved how she said it said it's a mindset and there can come a point when in the margins when life happens, right? I get a different vibe from Meredith and I loved how she said it, she said it's a mindset. And there can come a point when the world that we've set up for some of our citizens is, you know what, you're never gonna be enough.

You just sit over there in the corner, we're gonna pat you on the head and somebody's gonna come take care of you because you can't do this. And over a long period of time, you begin to believe you're less than yeah that you can't 100 and she i love this question she's asking because she's saying no i want to i want to stand up and i want to be i want to be in the driver's seat of my own life and it's terrifying because i've got this sense

everybody's been treating me for so long and I've been living this way that I can't, I don't know how I'll never know enough. I'm just going to hurt everybody. I'm going to screw everything up. And y'all told me to go sit in the corner and pat me on the head. Y'all just, y'all just send money in the mail and it's going to be all good. And so for someone in merit of the situation, I think it's important to keep this one word and always keep this word front and center, which is practice. I'm just going to practice. It's a skill that I don't have. I've never done this thing and I'm going to practice this and I have to practice. I've never had a high school

kid. I have one right now, just started. I'm having to practice being a high school dad because I've never done it before and I'm already not doing a great job at it right i've never been the the dad of a third grader i've never done that i'm practicing a third grade daughter i've never done i'm practicing it similar if you've never paid for anything and often this this generational poverty can be generational right yeah you you learn that you learn how to sign up and work the system somebody hands you helps you out i've never done it before okay cool we're gonna take we're gonna take baby steps first thing we're gonna do is we're gonna learn how money works we're gonna watch these courses we're going to get a job well you've also not you know had had the opportunity to like stretch your legs on it because if you're in these if you're in these programs there's limits like hey if you

if you earn beyond this you no longer get the crutch we cut you off and i'm thinking about like follow me on this uh in college i played volleyball and i was a middle blocker and i went up for a block and this crooked thumb snapped all the way back and i tore the ligaments all the way through and it was the most painful thing i've ever done even more painful than childbirth so i had this guard that i used to have to wear and after a while um the trainer was like hey you got to take that guard off and i was like oh i can't take the guard off like i'm gonna feel pain i don't know like it was it it was it made me so afraid to play the game i loved playing without this guard on because i was like for sure i'm gonna snap my

ligaments again and then you find yourself going up with two hands but kind of like halfway yeah like halfway you're like oh you know you've got this and I'm like you're never gonna know what you can do until you just up and do it you got to stretch your legs you got to play you got to take the guard off and see but she adds a very interesting component here I don't hurt my kids right so there's a lot of weight on that hey you just got to go you got to go do this but the thing is you're on it until you're exceeding it that's right so once you're exceeding it you're exceeding it and it's like okay i can do more i can keep going i don't need this crutch any longer it was there for a season it was never intended to be something that you had for the rest

of your life and so i think that's the part she's got to understand is, okay, this was here to just kind of like raise me up a little bit and get me to that point. But I'm to that point now I can, I can go forward and, you know, I think you have to be real about very,

very, very real about the dollars and cents. We took a call earlier. Yes. How much does my house cost? What are my electric bill? What's my water bill? What is my gas bill? what is food in this house what's transportation look like how stable is this job do i need a second job what's child care yes you have to be honest about those

numbers and it's easy to say i just want to be done with this great but if you're not ready math may not be done with you that's right right same as we talk to people on the other side is like i'm just gonna buy this house math doesn't care what you want to do right yeah so it's being honest about these numbers and then we're gonna practice and you will mess it up if you've never stretched your legs you're gonna fall down that's okay it's part of it that's why we have coaches that walk alongside people that's why we have budget that gives you a good framework for it um and we'll walk with you every step of the way. But keep that word in mind. Practice.

Any of us. The cool cultural thing to do now is to scream and yell at people who are trying to change. Just beat them back to the place where they deserve. That's a good job. I see men trying to become different kinds of men.

And they're beat up on both sides. And what do they do? They stop. I don't want to take it. I see women, same thing. See those with the least of these, those who are trying to learn to give. So you're going to have to ignore the voices,

and you're going to have to go do the next right thing, and we all have to practice. It's okay. We're learning new skills, and we're going to make it happen. I like that. That's good, John. All right, let's try to take a call.

We've got Darren in Boise, Idaho. What's going on, Darren? Well, good afternoon. I've got a couple of questions for you. I have a key lock that I'm paying on. We had some big issues in our kitchen, and we felt that it was probably best to just redo the kitchen and try to make a few different things work with it. We had a hole in the bottom of our oven, so we couldn't use our oven.

Our cooktop wasn't working anymore. So we just, we redid our kitchen. What was the yield for? Amount? Oh, $40,000. Okay. What else you got? We redid it.

And then we just, we have our home. That,000. Okay. What else you got? We redid it. And then we have our home. That's it. Okay. We have our home on a 15-year mortgage. We have $188,000 left, and it's at 2.25%. Okay. So my question is this. I'm 53.

I'm investing in my 401k doing the catch-. So it's like 30,000 a year. Okay. And I'm wondering, should I drop that for a year and pay off this HELOC? Is that going to, it's going to hurt me a little bit, but we're okay. We got about, we almost have $600,000 in our 401k. And so if I do that, then also then what is my tax liability? Because my taxable income is going to jump way up and my taxes are going to be brutal. It probably won't be that bad.

When your tax bracket changes, the whole amount isn't on that bracket. It's just the amount that puts you into that bracket. So it's not going to be a bloodbath here. How much do you make? Our combined household income is about $200,000. Bro, here's what you've done. You put your house on the block for a new kitchen. Sorry, say that again? You put the house on the block. You went to the bank and said, Hey, you give us a kitchen. And if we don't pay you back, you can have our

house. I would take my house. I would be much more concerned long-term that somebody else has the keys to my front door, then not. Then any kind of interest rate, any kind of tax implication. Do you get what I'm saying? So you would stop putting money into your 401k? I would stop everything and pay that HELOC off. Your house is on the chopping block right now.

The key here is, Darren, you've really dropped back to baby step two on this. We always say that if the HELOC is less than half of the total value, then it goes into baby step two. So you owe $188,000, the HELOC is $40,000. So for all intents and purposes, you're on baby step two. And so that's us pausing retirement. If you wanted to take some of the money that you had in savings and put it onto this and then rebuild that up, you could do that. But you're back in baby step two. It's not going to take you long to pay it off

and rebuild your savings and get back to investing. But that's the bed you made. And so you kind of have to lay in it. And I hate to tell you that because it feels not fun at 53 years old, but you guys made that choice. This is The Ramsey Show. From The Ramsey Network, it's The Ramsey Show. I'm Jade Warshaw next to Dr. John

Deloney, and we're going to take your calls all hour long. We're going to help you build wealth, do work that you love, and create amazing relationships. It's a live show, so if you want to call in, you can do that. The number is 888-825-5225. Let's get it on a poppin', John. Let's do it. And I'll call you Dr. Jade. I accept that. Uh, let's get it on a pop and John, let's do it. And I'll call you Dr. Jade. I accept that. I know.

Don't do it. Dude. You can get them online now. It's all good. It's all good. It's a certificate program. Yeah. What is it called when they just bestow it on you?

Cause you did something cool. Honorary. Honorary. Yeah. We had to give that to James. He wanted that. So we hooked him up with that. Dr.

James Childs. Yeah. Dr. James Childs. That has a nice ring to it. Dr. Jimmy C. Let's take a call. Let's that to James. He wanted that, so we hooked him up with that. Dr. James Childs? Yeah, Dr. James Childs. That has a nice ring to it. Dr. Jimmy C. Let's take a call. Let's go to Denver and talk to Chris.

What's going on, Chris, in Denver? Hi, how's it going? Doing good. How are you? Oh, doing okay. I'm on baby step two, which is paying debt off. And I've been just attacking debt, but I'm getting to the point now to where, you know, should I start putting a little bit into my emergency fund? Because it seems like every time I turn around right now I'm paying on a credit card and it's two steps

forward one step back because there's a dental bill that comes up or something we have three kids okay um so let's talk about that a little bit you're on baby step two but do you have the thousand dollars saved oh yeah okay so you're you're feeling like you just keep going through it and then some oh yeah okay uh part of this part of baby step two uh the huge the huge crux of baby step two is budgeting and the way that you're budgeting and how you're kind of scanning the next week and the next month and the next six months to make sure that you're budgeting properly um to try to avoid some of these what now feel like emergencies because whether it's dental stuff

or it's something with the car. So a lot of people will utilize sinking funds if they know, okay, like I'm going to have to take, you know, junior to the dentist and it's never $100, right? So that's one way you can kind of start looking towards this. Another way you can look towards that is just to say not right now. Like if it's something that can wait, obviously, if somebody is having tooth pain, it can't, you know, wait. But there might be some of the things when it comes to orthodontics and, you've put it that way it's just now your plan

um you know i'll be honest i've paid off in three months i've paid off 30 grand worth of debt wow way to go can i tell you can i tell you chris what i run a business um and i'm exhausted all the time i work six sometimes seven days a week last night i got home at midnight i was up at five and at my stop um can i stop real quick and just celebrate you man i know that's not gonna pay your life bill but dude we have a culture of people who are sitting on their couch watching TV and posting and whining. And you are the man who gives me hope for the world that my two kids are inheriting. I appreciate that. Hey, I'm telling you right now, brother.

You're out doing it. If I had a culture of men like you and women like you, we would have literally zero of our innate challenges right now. Yeah. Dude, I'm just telling you. Just dad to dad, I'm so proud of you, I can hardly breathe, man. It's awesome. Now you're getting me choked up. How much longer do you got to go?

I did the debt calculator, and that's the thing. I did the debt calculator and, um, it said 2027, um, February, 2027 with everything that I've got right now. Um. Consumer debt-wise, our mortgage will be paid off and half of it will be paid off in four years and the other half will be 10 years. So half of it in four years, so that's the 2027. Are you including half of it in that? Well, half the mortgage payment goes away. We bought two lots. I see. I basically bought two lots and moved a mobile on it that I bought for three grand and renovated the whole thing and paid cash to do it. So now we owe, we're not, we don't do business with banks.

Um, I don't have, I haven't, they did an owner carry on my property and I did it that way so I could pay cash to do it and have a place. So our mortgage is $1,100 a month. Okay. And what's, how much is the other consumer debt? $175,000. Okay. And what kind of debt is it? Can you go through it for me? See if we can shorten this. I've got a truck for $62,000 that I didn't really have a choice on.

Tell me more about that. Yeah, you do, brother. $62,000 feels like a lot of choices. Tell me. What is it? I had a 27. I shoe horses for a living. Okay.

I have a 65,000 horses for a living. Okay. 65,000 miles a year on a truck. Okay. 65,000 miles. Yeah. 65,000 miles a year on the truck. Um, my truck blew up. They wanted 30 grand to fix it. They had $305,000 on it.

Um, it was COVID-19, 2022. Right around there. And there was zero trucks on the lot. And they were wanting more for some used trucks than they were for new trucks. And I worked for very high end people that might have to be there. Here's what I want to get to, because I don't want to run out of time on you.

Okay, so it's a $62,000 truck. What's it worth? You owe $62,000. What is it worth? I'm $30,000 upside down on it. Oh, gosh. Okay. $30,000 upside down.

Okay, tell us the rest of the debt. Let's keep going. I have another truck that I bought, used by December. Talk right into your phone because you're breaking up. Talk right into your phone for me. Yeah, go for it. I'm talking right into it. Okay.

Can you hear me? Yep. I owe $32,000 on another truck. What's it worth? $10,000 upside down on that one. Okay, so it's worth $32,000 on another truck. What's it worth? $10,000 upside down on that one. Okay, so it's worth $22,000? Yeah. Okay, is it necessary for your life or can we offhaul it?

Is it necessary for your business? Yes, this is what I use primarily for my business. I wanted to stop driving the one that I'm $30,000 upside down on, pay the payment, and hopefully in a year I can get rid of it. Okay. It might require you switching that ideal because it's going to be harder to get out of this $30,000 truck upside down than this one that you're only $10,000 upside down,

and that could clear out $20,000 of debt lickety-split if you did that, if you just got a loan to cover the difference. Well, my only thing is the other one that I bought is a diesel. My one that blew up was a diesel. And when the diesel blows up, it's $30,000 plus. Okay, but there's no...

The one I'm driving now is a gas truck. And it doesn't cost... The repair cost and everything on it is... Hold on, brother. Listen, you're creating a world where you can't win. You're creating a world where you can't win. You're creating a world where you can't win. There's not a path forward without sacrifice here, man.

There's just not. We want you to win so bad, but you're going to have to make some concessions. Whether you stop doing high-end horseshoeing, or you sell one of these trucks, or you get rid of one of the lots, you're going to have to make some hard calls, brother. Yeah. You know what? I'm interested in talking with you more. Can you stay on the line

so we can talk to you a little bit longer? This is The Ramsey Show. You're listening to The Ramsey Show. I'm Jay. Next to me is Dr. John. We're taking your call. As a matter of fact, we just took a call from Chris in Denver.

He was telling us about his situation. He's $175,000 in debt. And right now it's going to take him until 2027 to pay it off. I asked him to go a little bit more deeper into the situation. It turns out he's got a $62,000 truck that he's $30,000 upside down on. He also has a $32,000 truck that he's $10,000 upside down on. And I just wanted to dig a little bit deeper. Chris, does that sound about right, bud?

Yeah, yeah, that's about right. And it's not like we're destitute. I mean, I make really good money. Yeah, I know you do. I know you do. I see that. I just want to make sure that we're making the most of this debt-free timeline because, you know, you sounded so tired when you called in and we want to make sure you get to the light at the end of the tunnel here. So you're currently driving a $32,000 truck.

You're driving it because it's not a diesel truck and you don't want it to blow up. But meanwhile, you've got the $62,000 truck sitting in the driveway, what, collecting dust? So I want to figure out the right solution on that. But tell me about the rest of the debt. I owe 40 grand to the IRS. Okay. And then I have, let's see, there's that and that. And then I owe 11 on a credit card. 11 on a credit card. Is there something else? 134.

I don't think so. Maybe I'm wrong on the number. Okay, because right now I've got 100, 134, 144, and you told me you had 175, right? Yeah, what else? Let me think for a second here. Meanwhile, while you talk about that. I think that's it. That's that's it okay so it's a little

less than what we thought about um first things first irs has to jump to the top of the list if it's not okay okay usually we talk about the debt snowball being smallest to largest in this case irs has to come first and that's for anybody listening if you're in trouble with the irs you gotta deal with that first because you know telling what they can garnish your wages and then that would really put you in a dilly of a pickle as they say okay so that's for i've got an agreement with them i just make them i make them a payment okay but you're going to pay them more because they're going to be the number one thing in your debt snowball yeah okay okay knock it out as quickly as possible. Yeah. And I was, I've got that,

that, that was next in line after the $11,000 credit card. Yes. But now we're switching that and we're putting the IRS, the IRS first. Okay. Okay. Got to do it that way.

All right. Going back to these trucks. Hey, I really, you got to sell one of them in the one that makes the most sense to sell. John cut in. If you want to, I'm just thinking about, I really, you got to sell one of them. And the one that makes the most sense to sell, John, cut in if you want to. I'm just thinking about, I mean,

if you wanted to take the hit on the $30,000, the $62,000 truck and just say, hey, I'd rather owe 30 than 60, you could, I guess, take out a loan for the difference and be on the hook for the 30. Yeah. Let me, dude, are you frustrated with this, Chris? Like i are you frustrated with this chris like are you frustrated with yourself no no not at all i i'm i'm i'm just trying to i'm a number i mean i know i've gotten myself into this but um i i i would love to get rid of the the $62,000 then do it head head over

there if your credit will allow you get a $30,000 loan for the difference and,000 truck. Then do it. Head over there. If your credit will allow you, get a $30,000 loan for the difference and sell the truck for $30,000. You're free and clear. I'd rather you owe $30,000 than $62,000. And it's going to suck. You're going to be like, why? But you got to get out of that. The only other choice is to go

and sell the $32,000 truck that you're $10,000 upside down on on that one. Can I ask you this? How much do you make, brother? Like, what's your net income from your business alone? The whole business is $175,000. A year? Yeah. Okay. And that's with, that's, that's after all the truck payments and everything too. I bring in a quarter million a year. That's, that's your bottom line. So why in the, why in the world is it going to take you two years or three years to pay this debt off? Because it hasn't, I mean, if I did more towards it, but I'm just living, like I've been putting $10,000 a month towards debt,

and then I drain my bank account, and then something comes up, and then I've got to put it on a credit card. Here's the thing. So do I hold some of that back a little bit? I mean, if you know a dentist appointment is coming for your child, yeah. With you owning your own business, there's a tension here between are you going to pay yourself more and pay taxes on that and do that whole song and dance, or are you going to leave yourself more and pay taxes on that and do that whole song and dance? Are you going to leave the money in the business and do it like that?

So I think that you have more. I'm not sure the workings of your business. I don't know if you're the only employer of your business, but if you have the ability to pay yourself more so that you can work through this quick more quickly, I would do that. I would get rid of one of these trucks. Whatever makes the most sense, whatever one you're willing to part with, you've got to get rid of one. Maybe it's the $60,000 one. That's probably where I would start. You've got to move IRS to the top of the list. That's the prescription. It's up to you if you're going to take the medicine or not. All right, let's go to Travis, who's in Dallas, Texas. What's going on, Travis? Hey, Jade and Dr. John. How are you guys today? We're doing good. how can we help man fantastic i am super glad to be on dr john i just finished building a non-anxious life on audiobook while

door dashing so excellent hope you're a little bit less anxious man yep absolutely so uh my So my question is, my wife and I are in baby step two. We've got about $129,000 left to pay. We are, so basically what I'm trying to figure out is I have a loan that is a loan from a credit union from a car that was underwater. And the minimum payment is $583,000. And there's $5,000 left on that. However, that is like seven debts down the debt snowball. And so I was curious on what your guys' thoughts were in trying to pay that off a little bit more quickly to free up that $583 payment a month. So you're saying it's four debts down and the ones in front of it have less money that they free up? Correct. It's actually, well, the IRS is on the top right now. And then one, two, three, four, five, six, seven. It's actually eight debts down from the top.

I mean, the truth is, the truth is, Travis, a lot of the thought behind some of the things we teach is not necessarily from a mathematical perspective. That's the truth. A lot of times it has more to do with how you're feeling and what makes you feel more motivated in a moment. And so the way the reason we teach the debt snowball is because there's something about being able to check something off a list and cross it off the list and go, OK, yes, I've done something successful.

I can keep going. And so my guess is, I mean, not a guess. It's true. The ones that are before this $5,000 debt are a lot smaller of debts and you should be able to knock them out fast. They're $5,000 and lower, right? And you said it's eight that go above that. So, I mean, how much could these debts be? Two and $3,000? Yeah. So they're anywhere between two and 4,000. And, you know, so far we've paid off about 30,000 since we started with you guys in March.

How much margin are you putting every month? What's your shovel? About $2,000 a month. Okay. $2,000 extra, $5,000 total towards debt a month. So in about five or six months, you should be up to this $5,000 debt, yeah? If you've got a $2,000 shovel and most of the debts are between $2,000 and $4,000 debt. Yeah. If you've got a $2,000 shovel and most of the debts are between two and 4,000, we should be clicking up this. Basically, almost every month, you're almost knocking one of them out. And so I think that's going to feel more gratifying than having the extra money there.

Now, it's your life. You can do whatever you want. I'm not going to yell at you. You're the one who has to sleep in your bed at night is what I'm saying but um that's my advice and I'm sticking to it I like the bird in your saddle I like the fact that it pisses you off uh-huh oh yes yeah I like the fact is it follow an order man and let it just drive you crazy let it drive you crazy and it's going to encourage I guarantee you if you don't pay it off early, you'll get there faster than six months. Yeah, for sure. It's definitely got a motivation. When you have $175,000 of student loans where you started with, and I've made more progress in the past six months than I almost did in 10 years.

Of course you did. That's right. That's right. And so I think the next six months to eight months are game changers for you guys, momentum wise. There's a reason that we teach what we teach. We teach it because it works. At the end of the day, it works. We've been teaching this 30 years. Not me, but Dave Ramsey, the goat. And I've just been here, I don't know, two years, but I can tell you it works. It works for me. My husband and I paid off $460,000 of debt using

the debt snowball method, listing those debts from smallest to largest, making minimum payments on all, but throwing all the money at the smallest debt. This is The Ramsey Show. There's a time in your life and in the baby steps for renting, but you don't want to do it forever because when you rent, you're still paying for a mortgage, just somebody else's. Plus, rent means instability in your budget because it always goes up, never down. So when you're ready to buy, make sure you work with a mortgage partner you can rely on, Churchill Mortgage. Churchill is Ramsey trusted to help you make the move from renting to home ownership wisely. Churchill understands that when you buy a home the Ramsey way, your mortgage payment will be a consistent, manageable part of your monthly budget.

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Next to me is Dr. John Deloney. You can give us a call if you want us to take your call. It's 888-825-5225, and we will get to you. All right, John. The Live Like No One Else cruise is almost sold out. Can you believe that? I can. More than 80% of the cabins are already booked.

Yeah, dude. So if you want to join us in March, you need to secure your cabin today. The cruise, really, it's just the ultimate debt-free celebration if that's the way you want to look at it. This is for people who are on baby step four and above. All right. So if you're on baby step two, the boat's going to leave without you is all I'm saying. It's not for you. So you straight up rhymed that. If you're on baby step two, the boat's going to leave without you is all I'm saying. It's not for you. You straight up rhymed that. If you're on baby step two, the boat will leave without you. Listen, I'm a poet and didn't know it.

Be rhyming all the time. All the time. All right, here we go. Join us. And when I say us, I'm talking about all the Ramsey personalities, Dr. John, myself, George Camel, Rachel Cruz. I'm going to forget somebody. Ken Coleman, the goat. We're all going to forget somebody. Ken Coleman, the GOAT. We're all going to be there.

All right. George. George is campaigning for a cannonball competition. He is very small, but he is a mighty cannonballer. So that's going to be a key part of the week. It's a Speedo-only cannonball competition. That's what he's campaigning for, obviously. Ken and I want to wear...

Well, Ken wants to wear jean shorts. I just want to wear regular swim trunks. But we'll get there we'll figure it out we'll figure out the logistics it's going to be a party no shoes no shirt and i it's also um because this is like the meeting of this is like the meeting of the epicenter of the cult there's going to be many punch bowls and ladles we're just going to drink kool-aidid. Stop it. It's going to be amazing. Okay, wait a minute. Let me go back. This is not going to be Kenny Chesney's cruise, as I may have sang. It's going to be amazing.

We're going to have a blast. This is not going to be a cultic cruise, as John has said. Why would you not come? It's going to be so fun. We're going all over the place. It's going to be so much fun. We're going to Turks and Caicos,

St. Thomas, Puerto Rico, Bahamas. We've made this announcement a lot of times. That's why me and John are cutting up, but it's going to be a great, great time. You don't want to miss this. We're partying with Dave. Come on, you don't want to miss it. You can secure your spot for $600.

That's the deposit before all the cabins are gone. So if you just are like, I don't want to miss out, put your $600 down and book your cabin today at ramseysolutions.com slash cruise. That's the way to do it. We'll see you there. We'll see you out there. All right. Let's go to the phone lines. We've got Angie, who's in Albuquerque, New Mexico. What's up, Angie? Hello. Hi. How are you doing? Doing good. What's up? So I have a question regarding my marriage. So legally I've been married for 13 years,

but it's been on and off for a while there. But lately, recently within the last three years, I have been living a silent divorce with my husband as far as being emotionally, physically, financially detached from our marriage. So I have a roommate now. Tell me about that choice. Why have y'all chosen that world? Because there's no more connection there. I know, but it's kind of a thing in popular culture to say, like, our relationship ran its course.

I just reject that. People, at the end of the day, they stop, or one person just gets off the train and the other person can't keep going. But have y'all sat down and had this conversation? Or have y'all just slowly let this thing go out to pasture? Right. That's basically how it happened. We did not sit down for it. And I've particularly asked for divorce, but he said he's not finding anything so we just live like this the issue around all of this is this is what I'm just wondering if it's even healthy to do this part here is I know it's not healthy for me but from what what I've been

looking for spiritually is what they've been telling me and what I've been you know throughout my research is that it's better for the kids to be at home and see both parents, even though we're living in this situation versus being separated in different homes that would be more harmful for them. That doesn't even pass your smell test. You know, that's not true. And you're repeating something you continue to hear. Do you think it's better for your child to walk home and see two people who say we are married and your child is

downloading into their nervous system and into their heart and mind and soul, this is what marriage, this is what love and compassion and till death do us part looks like? I know. No, I don't agree with it, but this is what love and compassion end till death do us part looks like. I know. No, I don't agree with it, but this is what. I know people are going to say what they're going to say. Not necessarily.

It's like the Bible says, once you get married, you're married for life. That's it. Your husband left you. And I'm saying this with all love in my heart. He left you. He just won't leave the house. Well, I wish he would. I know heart. He left you. He just won't leave the house. Well,

I wish he would. I know, but he left you. We both did. Then you both left each other. And so what you're doing is you're playing legal semantics with the Bible. Stop. I can't make someone sign.

There can be a no fault divorce and the judge will make you sell your house and property and divide it up and he will get whatever part is his and you will get whatever part is yours and you will go on about the life y'all have created for yourself but both of you are making a choice every single day and I hate to be so direct but that's the truth.

And what I think is you're living a life as a divorced person. That's the word you gave me. Right. Well, that's what I think of as false. So you've already violated this biblical contract you're trying to stay true to. You've already done it. Plus, can I just say the heart of a contract is the heart of the matter like when you get married the piece of paper is a legality

but it's more about you're saying i'm in commitment and covenant with this person it's the heart that's really what is the marriage like if we're talking about things from really like this biblical perspective it's that commitment but you guys have long since detached from that. So it's not about the legal piece of paper. That's not... Are you telling me the reconciliation's over? That he won't sit down and say, okay, we've chosen to build this life

and now we can choose to build something else? No, it's definitely over. But again, it's more towards what's going to be more like a word what what what is just going to be more i don't know uh healthier maybe you're so far ma'am you're so far past health you're so far past that and i know it's hard because you're living in it you've been living in it for 36 months you're so far past health a a healthy mother and a healthy dad that's the greatest gift for your kids and it doesn't matter

whether it's the same household or not regardless if they're going to be wonderful productive people society it just doesn't matter whether it's the same household or not that's just the bottom line no it's it's a this is like it's a straw man so people ask people ask me on my show all the time the question is oh should we stay together for the kids no fix your marriage for the kids like that's that's a it's a false dichotomy fix your marriage for your for for yourselves and then out of that repair your kids get to see two people that got really distant but they made a covenant and they came back together and if out of that repair your kids get to see two people that got really distant but they made a covenant and they came back together and if both of you refuse to do that yes then your house

becomes cancer stop but it's not just for your kid it's for you too and for your husband can i ask a question are you guys living together peacefully or is this like the worst no no i mean we're fine so you're living together peacefully can I ask another question was there like a like a catalyst like was there a moment that it was like that's it like did somebody cheat did somebody was there that big blow-up moment or did this just slowly erode over time it's like I said in the beginning so you know in the beginning of our marriage has been on and off because I had a child previously um and supposedly he was gonna you know love my child and everything and just throughout the years I realized no he resents her a lot and because of that it's just

it had it just turned turned me off completely that so you're so you left him no we're still in the same no. No, no, no. But for all practical matters, you left him. Right. Okay. Then call a spade a spade. Yeah, I can't get that love back. It's just not fair. No, that's not true.

You're choosing not to. And that's okay. You can make that choice. No. Okay. You can make... If you're done, you're done, you're done, you're done. I don't... Again, I don't want that to be the case.

But I also understand if y'all both made a choice, and let's make a choice, and let's go ahead and call what we're doing what it actually is we're doing. This idea of a silent divorce, it's like all hipster and cool. Man, you are untethered inside your own home. So you begin to come home,

and you don't know who or what the energy in this home is going to be. It's not safe for anybody. It's not good. Be adults and let's sit across the table and let's say if we've made this choice to end this, then we're going to do the right thing, the next right thing. If there's any chance we can choose to come back together, let's make that choice and let's fight like hell to save this marriage. But y'all get to make that choice. You're listening to The Ramsey Show. Next to me is Dr. John Deloney. I'm Jane Warshaw. We're taking your calls. We mostly take your calls. It's a live show. But today we have a question

of the day that's coming to you from WhyRefi. Today's question of the day brought to you by WhyRefi. So now we don't recommend refinancing on everything, but for distressed private student loans, there is YRefi. We trust YRefi because they help you with low fixed rate, fixed interest rate. They help you get a low fixed interest rate you couldn't get anywhere else to help you stick to your budget and get out of debt. Learn more at YRefi.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey. May not be available in all states. All right, today's question comes from Wyatt in California.

Wyatt writes, My wife recently asked for a divorce, but she wants to stay married until she finishes her MBA degree. Wow. To complicate things, my family. Oh, nice. To complicate things, my family had agreed to pay for her degree when she started the program as an

early inheritance for me. This guy is an honor student. i think she only wants to stay for the free tuition what should i do if i had a beard i'd be stroking my beard on this one because this is ridiculousness i i don't mean this to be mean jade but we're doomed just as a society this is bananas bro your wife left you she asked you for divorce there's a there's a word oh boy okay um dude listen it's not good if you say yes to this you got to bounce with an ounce you have to uh brush your shoulders she left you she left you and um there's so much complexity here yes don't pay for the wife that's

leaving you that's divorcing you don't let her take part of your inheritance this whole thing's such a mess um yes i would stop tuition payments. How about that? Let's just start there, for God's sakes. Yeah, if you're not, the gravy train ends. Like, at that point, like, if you get divorced, you don't get to say, oh, and will your parents please still pay for my, you know. It's like being at the Golden Corral, and you cash out, and you get your ticket, and you walk to the parking lot, and then you see them bringing prime ribs out. Yeah.

You don't get to go back. Wait a minute, wait. Wait, wait, I'm going to back a truck up here you see him bringing prime ribs in. You don't get to go back. Wait a minute. Wait. Wait, wait. I'm going to back a truck up here and take all the prime rib out. Dude, you cashed out. You cashed out. Somebody else gets the prime rib. That's right. You left. It's Golden Corral, baby. Wow. Yeah. You left. This is a boundaries conversation, I'm

guessing, John. I mean. Yeah, there's clearly a lot here. She can, you don't get both sides of you can't have your cake and eat it too if she says I want a divorce all right boom and I definitely wouldn't drag the in-laws into it no that just makes it even more messy and if your in-laws hear the story and they say well that's cool we still want to pay for her um for her degree a they're they can do what they want to do it's their money and b if it is part of an inheritance then it will come out of a divorce settlement so it's not just going to be free money it will have to be disclosed as part of a divorce settlement and

y'all will figure that out in court and i'm heartbroken for you why that your wife wants to divorce you i hate that for you man i just hate just hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. Yeah, this sucks. And if I could be ridiculous for a moment, her timing was terrible. I mean... She must feel some type of way. Like if I'm like, gosh, let me... I want to finish my MBA,

but I don't want to tell him. Well, there's also the other side of this that like Wyatt's cheated five times and she finally says, I'm out, but I'm getting my MBA too. We don't know. And she finally says, I'm out, but I'm getting my MBA. We don't know. That's the thing about these questions. We never know.

You could, you know, throw a lot of different wrenches into this subject. But at the end of the day, it's like, if you say you're done, you're done. Here's the best way to think of it. The moment somebody says, I'm divorcing you, from this point point forward this is no longer a romantic relationship this is a business transaction period it has gone we we got married we signed a marriage contract for this reason this is how we're going to set separate everything it is a business proposition from this point forward when somebody throws the d word and says i'm divorcing you cool then that's how we're hanging along. That's moving forward.

Can I ask you a question? Yep. I'm not trying to trip you up in any way. So on the show, we talk a lot about money, obviously. And we always say that, you know, one of the main causes of divorce is money fights and money problems. You're a person who's in this knee deep all the time. Where does it start? I think we, I mean, I think it's both ends.

So we say money is a symptom. And I'm saying that because we've had two of these in a row of just whacked out. Just what's going on here? We say that money is a symptom. And I think it continues. So let's take abuse and let's take just evil and put off to the side. That's outside the bell curve in this conversation, right? Okay.

There's abusive people and there's terrible people. We know that. I don't think most people are abusive. Most people are terrible. I think most people are unintentional and they have a picture about what they want their life to look like and they just assume that the person next to them that they married is going to absorb into that picture, not knowing that that person has a picture of what their life is going to look like and vice versa and so here's a good example in my house it's something so tiny that happened recently

we have two dogs and then we just i got my daughter a little it's like a gremlin dog so now we have three and they fight and scream and run around i got to where dinner time was frustrating for me it just felt like so much and i wasn't being the dad that wanted to be i was finding myself snippy i was finding myself just like hey can y'all once we backed out and my wife and i and she's like hey man dinner's like a sacred time we always just come here and exhale it's where we laugh it's these three dogs that we took from outside are running around underneath the table. We put them in a kennel now during dinner.

And man. You just made a clear choice. But it was unintentional. And what was happening was I didn't want to come to the table. My wife didn't want to be around a grumpy me. So it's easier. Hey, we're going to grab Chick-fil-A on the way home. Right.

And so it happens by teeny tiny degrees. It turns out it's the dumb dogs running around at the table table so it's a lack of intentionality and a lack of saying hey this is a sacred thing for us you want this i want this how do we choose to make this happen oh we can just do that that's easy it's a lack of intentionality when you're not in touch about your money then suddenly i'm buying this you're buying this you borrowed this i want to buy this and now we have two different worlds but we live on the same couch and then it implodes, right? So money fights are a symptom of two people that have not aligned their pictures and have not aligned their values and have not committed. We're going to forego short-term pleasure for a long-term vision of

what the world we want to build together. And it sounds like they've chosen the wrong enemy to direct their guns at, right? That's right, yeah. And so going back to the previous call, you make a choice, you make teeny tiny choices along the way that gets you this final choice. You do that with your money,

you do that with your physical health, right? Like my buddy Lane Norton didn't just wake up one day and win worlds. He started 20 years ago lifting weights right so then every day i gotta believe it's the same thing getting back right that's the beauty is if you will own you and i've both made choices to choose a miserable marriage then you can both make choices to choose something amazing that's that's what's where the that's where the light and the darkness is you can choose something something else. Nothing is inevitable unless outside of abuse.

Nothing is inevitable. You can choose something different together. It's amazing. I love that, John. See, you add a lot to the show, John, and I love picking your brain on stuff like this because you just have a different perspective. And by the way...

I believe in people. You do. I really do, man. I like that. I like getting to host with you. I kind of wanted to go to John for a minute, but I also want to let you guys know before this hour ends that this hour is about to end if you're listening, you know, on your favorite platform.

But if you want to keep watching the show and keep finishing this specific episode, keep hearing from John, keep hearing from me. You got to head over to the Ramsey Network app in order to finish the show. If you're on the radio, you can just keep listening. It's still going to play. More calls are still coming up. We've got Christian from Madison, Wisconsin. We've got Carol from Sacramento.

We've got a truck driver who's, you know, living out of his semi truck coming up. We've got a woman, Ashley. She wants to know if she should use the money that she has to get a car or to pay off debt. So we've got really great calls coming up. I'm going to pick John's brain a little bit more. But again, the Ramsey Network app is the only place that you're really going to get the full episodes of the Ramsey show like you're used to hearing. So you got to go over to the app. If you don't know where it is, you can search Ramsey Network in the app store or on Google Play. That's the way to find it. And by the way to find it.

And by the way, we're still working on the app. Every day we're doing things to make it better, make that experience the best we can for you. We just started this, so it's kind of cool. You guys are in on the ground level, and we're happy you're here with us. But again, don't miss what's coming up next. Head over to the Ramsey Network app, and it'll be me and John. be in our same clothes same shirt same plaid finishing up this show thanks for hanging out with us this is the ramsey show

from the ramsey network live inside of the ramsey network app it's the ramsey show i'm jade warshaw joined with dr john deloney we are taking your calls for this hour if you want to get on the show is still live so you can call us 888-825-5225. Get on the phone lines and we'll help you out. We're talking about helping people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. That's what we're here to do. So let's go straight to the phone lines where we've got Daniel in Tallahassee, Florida. What's up, Daniel? Hey, Jade. Hey, John. Thanks for taking my call. You got it. What's up, brother? Oh, as you know, I'm a truck driver and I recently became an owner-operator, which means I put about $5,000 down to go and lease a truck. And the reason I did that was despite owning my own house,

well, having a mortgage on it at any rate, I had to leave that house to my daughter and my daughter's mom. She and I are no longer together. So she got the house and the divorce? Well, we weren't actually married. And my name is actually the only one on the mortgage and on the deed and all that. Okay.

Hold on, hold on. Let me stop you, Daniel. Have you gone to settle that? What do you mean settle that? Well, if she stops paying the mortgage, whose name is going to be liable for that? Yours. I'm paying the mortgage. For them to live there?

I'm paying the mortgage. Yeah, I'm paying the mortgage so they live there. No. But I'm paying the mortgage and then like... Why are you doing that? Well, when my daughter turns 18, I get the house back. Why? And she's also not coming after me for child support until then.

Okay, hold on. It's in lieu of child support. Bro, don't, man. What did the... She's going to have a common law claim to this house, dude. You're not going to get the house back. They're going to sell the house and split it up, man. She's not on the mortgage.

It doesn't matter. How long have you all been together? Almost 10 years. She's got a legal claim to this home, brother. Every state's a little bit different, but you've created a story in your head that is legally and factually inaccurate. You're trying to love your daughter and make sure she's got a stable place, and I honor that, but this isn't the way to do it. Well, the thing about it is, is I'm going to have to pay child support or the mortgage, and my daughter is, you know, she's got a house over,

you know, a roof over her head, so. How old's your daughter? Nine. Nine. Okay, so you were going to ride this out for the next 10 years? That was the plan, you know. Let John and I help you. Do you trust us to help you come up with a better situation for you legally and for your daughter? Let us help you with that. If you've got a better idea, I'm all ears. Okay. So we're going to get to that. I want to see the whole picture because right now what we've got is a living situation that's detrimental to you. What you know, I don't know what the mortgage is and I don't know to call your ex-wife, but your ex-girlfriend of 10 years. You're not impeding her from moving forward and having a life.

This is just very tangled up. So let's get the rest of the story because my screen says that you're living out of your semi truck. So let's get to that. You said you are? Yeah, I am. get to that you said you are yeah i am ever since i i left her for a number of reasons uh about a year and a half ago uh i've been kind of just uh i went back to trucking i had actually gotten out of trucking for a little over a year before I left her trying to swap into the tech career.

But because I was in the middle of Georgia, the only real places I could get a tech job was Atlanta and they wouldn't hire me because I was an hour and a half away. So you're living in your truck now for a year and a half. You've been living in your truck. Yeah. Okay. And what are you earning?

It's been kind of fluctuating. Ballpark it. Ballpark it. Okay. At the moment, I have been netting about $1,500 a week, and that's after fuel, that's after my truck note, that's after insurance, and that's after all expenses. So you make anywhere between $6,000 to $7,500 a month,

depending on the month? Yeah. Okay. Now, here's the thing. I mean, you're driving a lot but there's i mean if you were not living in your truck there'd be times where you would come home and sleep right if you were not living in your truck so let's talk yeah let's go back to the situation with the wife or the the the common law wife by the way by the way i'm wrong i was i'm gonna tell you right now

i was wrong please go see an attorney, but I'm just Googling here. It appears that Florida does not have any sort of common-law binding, so maybe I'm wrong on that. The house is in the middle of Georgia, so

I'm just so happy to be closest to Tallahassee at the moment. Please go sit with an attorney and figure out this. It's a mess. Yeah, because in any regular situation, it's like she's entitled to something. I'm not saying she's not. You were together for 10 years. You have a child together.

You got to figure out what that is. But at some point, the common law wife or the ex-girlfriend goes somewhere and gets her place. You have your place and you're splitting custody with the child. Sometimes the child is with you at your place with your name on the deed. And sometimes the child is with the mom at her place with her name on the deed or on the rent. Right. So that's what you need to get to. She doesn't actually make a whole lot of money right now. Yes.

She's actually, her mom just actually had a stroke. Okay, but she's not, listen, listen. Daniel, you're not married. You left her. And if you say I'm going to pay for anything, you want to know what? She doesn't have to get a job. If you say you can live here scot-free, she doesn't need to get a job. Why?

Daniel's taking care of her. She does some at-home work at homework for amazon yes but do her the service and give her the the pride of going out and making a living and making a new life for herself because all you're doing is tying her to an old life that's not even real anymore you think you're doing a good thing for both of them, but I don't feel that you are. And John, this is your area. I'm treading all over it. You're trying to have your cake and eat it too.

You're trying to not be living together. You're trying to not be married, not play house with this person. And you're also trying not to affect their life in any way. You left. You've affected it. What was is no more. And now you're just dragging it behind your truck down the highway. Stop. what was is no more.

And now you're just dragging it behind your truck down the highway. Stop. Sit down with an attorney and split this house up. And by the way, avoiding child support, yes, people can get taken to the cleaners. I know that. Think of child support as taking care of your daughter. Okay?

Because if you give her child support and she goes out and gets a job, she can get her own place and she can live her own life. And that's okay. Trust me. Whenever I went into trucking was she was supposed to be going to college. It doesn't matter. And you, you, you know, right now she didn't do that because she doesn't have to do that. You keep paying for everything. The only way you separate this from this point forward is legally. Please go contact an attorney in your home state and begin to unwind this thing. You've got to live in reality starting today for you and your daughter and your ex. This is The Ramsey Show. You are listening to The Ramsey Show.

I'm Jade Warshaw. Next to me is John Deloney. We're taking your calls about your life, your money, helping you build wealth, do work that you love, and create great relationships. That's what we do here on the show. If you ever want to call in, it's a live show, and you can do that.

The number is 888-825-5225. If you want to get involved, uh, John, we're about to do one of my favorite segments, uh, that we've started. Have you ever had a question and it's like, I don't want to be the first one to say this, or I don't want to admit that I don't know what something is like at my age, I should know all the time. Yes. I feel like with money, it happens a lot because I mean, we're not taught this in school, right? At least I wasn't. And so it's kind of, you're learning as you go. Maybe you listen to shows like the Ramsey show, but you might be in conversations and it's like, oh my gosh, I don't want to admit that. I don't know what, you know, the jargon is. Right. So asking for a friend is, you know, sometimes people say,

Hey, Jay, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah. Oh, I'm just asking for a friend. I get that all the time. Hey, John, you got a second? Just ask for a friend. What happens? And then they tell me something weird going on in their house. And you're like, that's you. It's always her. That's 100% you. So today, asking for a friend. Hey, Jade, what is a will in last Testament? What is that? I'm just asking for a friend. Matter of fact, I think this video cues it up very well. So Leslie and I just finished putting together our will, and she wants you to be the witness. You mind signing it?

That's your will? You need that many pages to say give my stuff to my wife? It's a complicated legal document. Doesn't have to be. I've had the same will since I was eight years old. Upon my death, all of my belongings shall transfer to the man or animal who has killed me. What are these weird symbols? The man who kills me will know.

Okay, you should really have a will that's more than one sentence long. You have a wife and kids now. I could introduce you to our lawyer. The three most useless jobs in the world are in order, lawyer, congressman, and doctor. Pass. Ron, that document is nothing. It's not even notarized. You know, if you die and you don't have a real will, most of what you own will go to the government. Where is this lawyer you speak of? Parks and Rec. Is that Parks and Rec? Yes ron swanson is a national treasure

ron swanson i mean but here's the thing that was that conversation i feel like is so valid because a lot of people feel that way a lot of people think listen i know in my heart or you know i told my grandson that he could have this thing you know it's like that's it like i told my kids y'all just split it up yeah right. Right. And that is the will? Or I jotted it down on a napkin one night in a drunken stupor. You know, it's like, that doesn't work. That's James Child. That's what he did.

James, I know that's what you did, but let's talk about how to get you a real will. Or the other side of it is, I was so specific on my will, I handed it to my wife and I had all the songs I want in my wedding. I mean, in my funeral. Oh, gosh. And who's going to sing them? Which one of my friends? And she said, John, I'm not doing chores for you when you're gone. I'm not doing any of the things that you wrote down. But alas. All right. What's the last will and testament, Jade? Let's tell the person who is feeling a little bit of shame that they didn't know. No shame.

So a will, it's also called a last will and testament. Same it's really just a signed legal binding document that says how you want your assets to be handled when you die so your assets are anything from your bank accounts your properties your jewelry uh your guns uh i don't have any but a lot of people i know do that kind of thing all of your assets and you need to have this because it's how you it's really how you love the people around you well, because if something, God forbid, happens to you, and let's be honest, for all of us, something will happen at some point. This is a way to take care of them and love them well. You don't want them having to scrape through your stuff, trying to figure out what you wanted. And if you don't have a will, all of this stuff ends up in probate

and a court decides what happens to it. So it doesn't matter if you told Johnny that he could have your stamp collection, the court ultimately is going to decide. And so it's important to have this will because it's going to protect the people and the things that you care about most. For example, for me, John, one of the most important things about having a will is in your will is where you decide who becomes guardian of your children if something happens to you so if it's you know obviously children 18 and under that for me if i if nothing was going to convince me that was the thing because it's like if something happens to samurai and sam and i then somebody needs to get these kids and i don't want the state deciding

that right because the state may pick your aunt janet right because janet showed up at court and she has she wants your house yeah and she wants you not even assets she she's just going i'm going to do the best i'm going to be the best they loved me they loved me they used to tell me right and there's no one to step in and the court can say okay cool family member stamp onto the next oh that that right there john shook me so i was like we're doing this instantly um a will also decides you know uh who's the executor is going to be this is the person who is going to read the will and who's going to handle those wishes and actually carry them out the way you wanted to so you you determine

who that person is going to be because again the, the court, right? You don't want the court on this. Beneficiaries, your will is going to say, okay, who gets what? All right? Gifts, there's a section that you can say, okay, and I'd like to gift this person that. There's a whole section for that. And again, like I said, guardians. One thing that it's not going to cover is like your retirement accounts, right? Those have their own beneficiaries. It's not going to have anything to do with your life insurance policies, right? Those have your own beneficiaries. So it's not going to cover that, but you should have a will. I'm going to tell you where to go to get that. Actually, we have a really great quiz here.

It's at ramseysolutions.com slash wills quiz. And it's going to help you find out more about what you need. It takes less than five minutes. But just know once you have the will, you'll get it notarized and they're going to give you the documents back. You need to keep them someplace where nothing's going to happen to them. Right. And I know this sounds really like crazy, but you got to put them in a fireproof box. Like you got to put them somewhere that's fireproof, waterproof, tornado proof, because this is the document. Right. You want to keep a digital copy as well keep it on the cloud

right keep it in the clouds so nobody can get to it um and uh yeah if you have a digital copy keep a physical copy and this might sound extreme but whenever my husband and i go out of town i'll like text my brother and be like hey we're going out of town you know the will is here here's how you get to it i always do always do that and make sure people know where it is yeah and i know that it feels extreme and some people are like jade this conversation like this is i'm trying to like just drive home from work and decompress but seriously these these are hashtag adulting conversations and these are mama and papa i love my kids conversations and so you need to have them um and i love my spouse conversations let me say one quick thing i've

got personal experiences sitting with widows whose husband has just died who doesn't know where anything is doesn't know where the passcodes are doesn't know where the accounts are doesn't know the retirement stuff doesn't even know who to contact at the office. Doesn't know where the passcodes are. Doesn't know where the accounts are. Doesn't know the retirement stuff. Doesn't even know who to contact at the office. Literally doesn't know anything. My friend John once told me I didn't have a will and I was a newlywed and he kind of looked at me indignant and he said this phrase

and it stuck with me all these years and I've repeated on the show a bunch. The only reason to not have a will is if you don't love your wife and kids. And that sentence has stuck with me. Don't leave your family's future up to the government they're not doing a bang-up job of handling what they got right they don't need your stuff too just take care of it just take care of it and a hundred percent of us don't get out of this thing alive a hundred percent a hundred percent it's gonna happen so just own reality like you said be an adult and let's write this stuff down and get it get a square yeah and and here's the thing

i mean i'll tell you from personal experience when my husband and i first sat down to do ours i was like i am not enjoying this process at all like it took us a couple of days uh maybe it took us like two weeks really i mean it's hard yeah it's hard and and but you know your spouse a lot better at the end. And anytime you have hard conversations with your spouse about real things,

it brings you closer together. That's the truth. And actually, at the end of it, I can say this, John. I think I had more peace after doing my will than I had after paying off

$460,000 of debt. That's right. Because I think most people are scared of the will process because they haven't thought it through. haven't thought it through they're so scared of dying because they haven't they haven't put a pen to paper it's like people who are terrified about their money situation just because they've never sat down and looked right so you make a plan and suddenly death isn't so scary anymore because you've already made that step here's

what's gonna happen when i'm not here anymore and the people you you love most you know they're taken care of and here's the thing though it's also not one of those things that you set it and forget it. So let's talk. Let's be clear about that. You set the will now, but you do need to make sure that you're following up on it because there's major life impacts that could change where you need to edit the will. New kids, new accounts, loss of a spouse, all these things need to be updated. Yeah. The person who you thought was going to be the guardian, you know, is not, they're not available anymore. All those things. And and by the way if you do choose a guardian make sure you talk to that person and tell them don't don't let them find out like oh my gosh i got eight kids now

james childs you got my kids i forgot to tell you i'm gonna go with my bad on that one brother oh my gosh ramsey solutions.com slash wills with S. Wills Quiz is where you need to go. You're listening to The Ramsey Show. Thanks for listening. I'm Jade Warshaw. Next to me is Dr. John Deloney. Taking calls about your money. If you want to get involved, you can. John, let's go straight to the phone lines and see who we're talking to. We got Ashley in Fargo, North Dakota. What's going on, Ashley? Hey guys, pleasure to talk to you. You too. How can we help today? So I got door dinged today. I actually have my quote unquote cootie. So I wouldn't plan to fix

it. However, the person was kind and left their number on my car saying that they would fix it and I can call them. I'm wondering if I should use, I'm guessing it would be around $1,000 to fix, if I should use it to pay off debt or if they did the right thing and I should let it fly. What's a door ding? Like when somebody's door smacks into your car and leaves a nice dent in it. Like at the grocery store. What's a nice, like... Is your car really nice? It's the metal, the paint stuff. No, we just got a hoopty, so we scraped together about six grand to sell our expensive car and pay cash for something cheap. So you're trying to decide, do you call this person and say,

hey, I went to the shop, they're saying it's going to cost $1,000, pony up the cash. And then if you do say that, do you actually use the cash to get it fixed or do you use it towards your debt snowball? That's the question. Well, I wouldn't fix it. I would use it for debt i i would put myself in put put the shoe on the other foot if if i accidentally dinged somebody's car

and i was nice enough to put a note on it and say hey call me i didn't mean to and knowing they have a hoopty anyway but you still put the note um you know would you want them to put you on the hook for if you weren't even going to use it for the car? Right, exactly. That's where I'm at too. You've already answered the question. Yeah. I'll tell you why, John. John, I know why, Ashley.

I feel you. You would be wrong to do this, but I know why. You're just trying to get out of debt. You're just like, I know why, Ashley, and I'm not, I feel you, you're, you would be wrong to do this, but I know why you're just trying to get out of debt. Like you're trying to, you're just like, I gotta go. And, and sometimes when you're so desperate, even things that aren't the best idea start looking good to you because you're just trying to make progress. Okay. So no one's mad at you, but don't do this thing. Don't do thing can i can i tell you something that happened to me one time ashley yeah i had a i had a hoopty car cost three thousand bucks and i was a grown man with two kids i mean i was i was making i was trying to get out of debt and a mom an exhausted mom in the middle of texas heat was getting two kids out of car seats at the same time in the back of her

car she got one out was getting the other one out and the kid just kicked their door from the inside and it whammed into my truck this this surprised even me my initial first response was to laugh yeah a laugh shot out of my mouth and the mom was horrified she goes oh my gosh i'm so sorry and i said man that's why i have this car and i walked away and not because i'm a good person as it was an initial response that that one moment changed how i think about cars who cares you know what i mean and so i just wouldn't use somebody else's kindness as a way like haha you owe me no i can make you whole and if you're not going to be made whole move on with your day in fact i would call them and say hey dude i really want to honor you for your integrity thank you for doing that that's good i'm passing

on let them know they did the right thing i think that'd be cool yeah yeah for sure okay well thank you i appreciate being a person of integrity and you be the same kind of person of integrity. Good call. Good call. Thanks for the call, Ashley. That's, it's not easy. You know, you're trying to get out of debt. Your car is nicer than mine.

Like, so there's a... My car is not... John, you keep saying that. My car is from 2012. It is from... Mine is... Your car is nice. What's yours from?

06. Oh, really? Yeah. Oh, okay. I have a newer car, but the one I drive often is from 06. Oh, it is? Okay. I don't even know what car you drive. What's yours from? 06. Oh, really? Yeah. Oh, okay. I have a newer car, but the one I drive often is from 06. Oh, it is? Okay.

I don't even know what car you drive. You take care of yours. My husband takes care. I do not. I do not. When I say my husband cleans it and vacuums it and puts gas in it. And yes. Somebody got in my car recently and they looked me in the eye and they said, I'm confident

if I look behind us, there's going to be a body back there. So I'm just going to look straight ahead. So it's not great. But here's the thing. I just feel, again, I'm always searching for freedom. There's just a sense of freedom. I'm digging the car. I'm going with my day.

Life's too short. Yeah. But it does open up the conversation for the feeling of like when you're in baby step two, you're digging through the couch cushions to get the money right you're you're hope it's like you're maybe kind of hoping something will happen to you that somebody has to like insurance right maybe something will happen and insurance will write a check and then i can just clear some you know like you're looking for anything to get this money but i'm with you i'm with you but don't you know you gotta sell your soul gotta pull it back all right let's take another call. We have time to do so. Let's go to Christian in Madison, Wisconsin.

What's going on, Christian? Hi, John and Jade. How are you guys doing today? Doing good. How can we help? What's up? All right, so I'm a recent graduate, and my career or major, actually,

just isn't a very, I guess, wealth-building career field. At least it doesn't feel like it right now at this point, and I just feel like I made a mistake. What is it? I almost feel like my degree might be worthless. It's wildlife ecology. Okay. So it's basically management of your state natural areas.

Like if you want to go out on a hike many of those areas and the wildlife populations, make sure we don't got too many deer running all over the road. Yeah. That sort of thing. What's wrong with that? And I don't think there's really too much wrong with it. It's just that it doesn't pay very good at all. Yeah, but they didn't trick you.

They told you that going in. What changed? Well, I thought I don't, along the way, like this last year, a lot's changed. A recent relationship breakup, it was a longer relationship

and things didn't work out. Is it because she wanted you to make more money? Wanted to? No. Are you just heartbroken and kind of revaluing everything? Maybe that could be it, yeah. Let me ask you, brother, do you love being outside?

Yeah, I'm naturally like, I like hunting and fishing. Do you love your work? I'd rather be outside instead of stuck in a factory. Do you love your work to be outside instead of stuck in a factory do you love your work um right now where i'm at in my career i don't know if i love spraying herbicide every day okay but so let me tell you in the future i'd love it more the number three like we did as we did the largest study of billionaires that that we have, that anybody has on record that we know of. Over 10,000 millionaires. Number three on that list is teachers. And yes, teachers plan, they make lesson plans. They look at their year in big chunks, then they reverse engineer that and they make a plan day by day. That's part of it.

But I've grown up in education, that's the world can't come from most of the teachers that i know they made peace with a corolla life they didn't they didn't do the job that they loved and get mad that they didn't have a tahoe they knew what they were signing up for and they chose this world and they became millionaires down the road you're just gonna have to make choices along the way to say i love this life i love this world yes i'm in my early stages i'm having to do the grunt work that's every job man um but if you love this thing then what you can do is make different kinds of choices along the way that will still get you you're not going to be dave ramsey wealthy none of us are but you can be okay down the road

if you love the work. And if you don't love the work, cool. And I want to challenge you on something, okay? I'm old school and this isn't, whatever, I'm old school. If you stopped doing your job today and went and got a different job, I don't think you wasted your degree.

Here's why. You learned how to have 45 different bosses because you had different professors for four years. You learned how to write papers. You learned how to get things in on time. You learned how to say, I'm sorry, I screwed this up. Can I get extra credit? Can I do this differently? You learned how to navigate a monstrous, slow metastasizing system, which is the university. You know how to do all those things. You didn't waste it. Okay. So think about, okay, what skills did I learn and what would I want to do next? And how would I apply those things? But if you walk around with your head held low, I just got dumped. I just have this. I hate my life. I wasted my degree. Your body's going to respond in kind.

Does that make sense? Yeah. So hang on the line here. here's what i'm gonna do i'm gonna hook you up with our friend ken coleman his get clear assessment about what kind of job might you want to do and then i'm also going to send you ken coleman's um proximity principle book and i want you to read this book and put yourself around some people who have jobs kind of adjacent to what you're doing that might give you some insights into different kinds of careers. But I think you love what you're doing. You're just bummed out right now. Hang in. You're listening to The Ramsey Show. Our scripture on quote of the day, Colossians 3.23, my favorite. And whatever you do, do it heartily as to the Lord and not to men.

Tina Fey said, there are no mistakes, only opportunities. I love that. I like to say mistakes are not mistakes. They're research. Oh, I like that. You know what I'm saying? She's getting a better idea. All right.

Let's go straight to the phone lines, by the way. My name is Jade Warshaw. Next to me is Dr. John Deloney. All right. Let's go to Joyce. She's in Springfield, Missouri. Hey, Joyce, how are you? I'm okay. How are you? I'm all right. How can we help today? Okay, I'm going to try and get through this without crying.

You're okay. We're with you. What's up? My husband committed suicide. Oh, goodness. How recently, hon? He's going to church, and my friends and family have been very kind. And, um, he had no life insurance. It wouldn't have mattered anyway because it was suicide. Um, altogether, they've given me about $7,000

to help me through this time. I, um, about two years ago, I felt an urgency from God to get out of debt. I knew about the snowball method just by word of mouth. I didn't know about baby steps, so I just started applying it. I got rid of all my credit card debt, my personal loans, my cars are paid off. I still have my house and my student loans. And I want to be able to use this money in the right way. And I'm hoping you can give me some direction. All right. Joyce, when did this happen, hon?

Four weeks ago. Okay. What was his name? Ed. Ed. Ed hurting for a long time? He was recently diagnosed with dementia in Parkinson's. Okay.

And I can only, he was in a lot of pain. Yeah. And I can only assume that he just didn't want to hurt anymore. Yeah. I'm so sorry. I'm sorry for Ed. I'm sorry for you. I'm sorry for this whole mess. Thank you. Alright.

Alright. So tell me more about your situation because what I'm hoping is that right now you can just take a moment and not do much. Um, you've got the $7,000.

Um, you told me you paid off a lot of debt. Um, I took two weeks off. My two, my two youngest sons live with me right now and I could not do it without them. They're 33 and 35.

Okay. And they're taking care of me. Good. But we're all, we all work full time, but we're all short on paychecks because of bereavement time. Yeah. But, um, I had bills to pay, so I had to go back to work. Okay. Um, he did have like a small retirement plan set up that I will get for the rest of my life, $400 a month. I get my social security. And then right now I'm just working four days a week because I work two days, take a day off, and then work two days. And five days straight is just overwhelming for me.

Sure. Can I ask a question about the retirement? Is it a 401k or is it an IRA? From the school. It's called peers retirement. He worked at the school for about 13 years as a custodian. Okay. So you have to take the $400 per month. You can't continue to let it grow? Not that I know of.

Find out. I'll be honest. I don't know a whole lot about that, but how old are you? 65. 65. Okay. Um, if you need the money, that's fine. But if you don't need the money, it could be a better choice for you.

Just like a pension. If you can take the lump sum and reinvest it and let it continue to grow at a better interest rate, that could be something that's on your to-do list. Not right now, but for later. So anything... I make $26,000 a year, so it's kind of... You need it. Yeah. Okay. $26,000 a year. Okay. And with the $7,000, again, anything I tell you on this call, just sit on it for a minute. I'm just telling you this for later. You need some time to really let things settle and yeah our rule my rule of thumb is always if at all possible don't do anything for six months to a year you've got to survive so you had to go back to work and you got bills to pay luckily for you

you've done a good job raising those boys and they came home to help their mama. Good on them. Good on everybody. Yeah. So y'all got to keep clocking in and out. But don't just put that 7,000 bucks in an account and for the first time in your adult life, just do nothing with it. Okay? Okay. How long you been married?

37 years. Okay. Everything in your life is different now, right? Yeah. Yeah. So let's just, the smoke won't clear for about 90 days. Okay? Okay.

And you're going to have seasons when you're really, really, really mad at Ed, and there's going to be seasons when you yell at him to answer the door, and you forget that he's not there. Yep. And there's going to be seasons when you yell at him to answer the door and you forget that he's not there. Yep. And there's going to be time that the mail comes and just seeing his name, you're going to collapse to the floor and cry. There's going to be times you're laughing. That's just the next, it's just going to be what it is for a while. Okay. Yep. Your job is to go to work and make the money you got to make and then come home. Okay. And be with those boys. You get what I'm saying? I don't want you to feel any rush and any pressure. If you've got the ability to get stuff, to keep a roof over your house and keep your four walls up, then let's do that, okay?

Okay. So it's okay to dip into it if I need to for the bills? I don't want you to because how much do you owe on this house? $91,000. And how much do you owe on this house? $91,000. And how much do you owe on the student loans? $64,000. $1,000? Yeah.

Good God almighty. For what? A business degree. So the truth is the $7,000 is not going to change your world when it comes to that debt. I want you to treat it as a three to six month emergency fund. Yeah, don't spend it. And I just want you to drop it into a high yield savings account. The one I use is Ally. There's plenty out there. Drop it into a high yield savings account. Let it draw some interest. And that's right now, that's your emergency fund for right now. And you're just going to sit on that. And when the smoke clears, like John said, this is act two.

And this is Joyce out here living her life. And, you know, I want you to call us back. I want you to call us back in. Yeah, in three to six months. Yeah. Okay. How much equity do you have in this house? Well, because of the way the real estate market has gone up and everything,

I work in a real estate office, and they said I could probably get about $200,000 for it. Okay. Is there an ability that you could get $200,000 and buy a $110,000 condo? Here's what I'm trying to do. You're 65, all you have is Social Security and the small $400 check coming in, and you make $26,000 ao. Here's what I'm trying to do. You're 65. All you have is Social Security and the small $400 check coming in. And you make $26,000 a year. Unless you go start to find a way

to make $50,000 to 65, which would be a tall order where you are, I want you to start looking at where do you have the least amount of liabilities. That's just nerd speak for is there a situation where i that i can put myself in where nobody can come take my house away right and it's in in that what john is saying is so true and from my perspective it's almost less about the debt and more about the fact that that you just i mean it is about the about the debt, but I, the simplification of life and

just making it okay. Like I don't owe anybody. No one can, to John's point, no one can take my house, the student loans, whatever. Like if you don't get to those, they'll be strong. Don't worry about that for right now. But this house situation is the one that I want you to think about. I don't want to burden you with that today. I just want it to live somewhere in the back of your mind. And listen, call us back in three to six months when this has some time to settle. And we want to keep walking with you. But right now, I feel like we're just loading up your plate with things that it doesn't matter right now. Okay. Will you do me a favor? What's up? Over the next few days you to get a um ask somebody at your office if you can get some sheets of paper off the printer and i want you to grab a pen and when you're home by

yourself i want you to write a letter to ed okay i want you to tell him that you love him and that you miss him there's probably parts of that letter that tell you that you're really angry at him and there's probably parts of that letter where you tell them how much you're going to miss them and here's what you're going to do you're going well here's the kind of mom you're going to be and thank goodness the boys are helping out and what we're going to do is we're going to own this reality here we're going to start slowly looking up to the future it's just going to be a long ride for you okay just take it slow one day at a time okay call us anytime promise okay? She'll be calling back. Alright, that does it for this episode of The Ramsey Show.

Remember, count your blessings, people. This is The Ramsey Show. Thank you.