The Ramsey Show - App - Quit Trying To Borrow Your Way Out of Debt! (Hour 1)

Episode Date: July 17, 2023

Dave Ramsey & Jade Warshaw answer your questions and discuss:  "Should I pay off debt before buying another rental property?"  from the blog: How to Invest in Real Estate, "Does my $1000 count toward my 3-6 months emergency fund?" "Should I keep my savings or pay off my 401(k) loan?" Focusing on paying off the house vs. retirement, "My father wants me to buy his business" "How do we sell a vehicle privately?" from the blog: How to Sell a Car, "Should we sell our house to pay off debt?" Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET Here's an EveryDollar deal just for our listeners: get a 14-day free trial PLUS $15 off your first year of premium. Click the link below and start budgeting today! www.everydollar.com/jade Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3cEP4n6 Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6 Interested in advertising on The Ramsey Show? https://ter.li/s64ye3 Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the pods, moving and storage studios. It's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. I'm your host Dave Ramsey, my co-host today, Ramsey Personality, the ever-popular Jade Warshaw is with me. We'll be here answering your questions about your life and your money. Translation, we're going to talk about you right in front of you.

Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Gian Carlo starts off this hour in Orlando. Hey, Gian Carlo, how are you? Hi, how are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Oh, my gosh.

First of all, thank you again for taking the call. I've been listening to your show for about two weeks now, and it's been a life changer for me. Wow. So here's my situation. I'm 37 years old. I make, uh, about 130 key a year. I own two houses. One is a rental property, which I get, uh, about 1500 of profit. And I have another mortgage, which I just got into a year ago when I moved to Orlando and I paid $2,500 on it.

I have a car payment of $600 a month and I still owe $30,000 on it. I have a solar panel that I bought in the first home for $40,000 in the interest of 5% and then I have a student loan debt, which is 30 K. So, uh, before you scream at me, I've always been, um, I've had bad, uh, uh, habits with money. Um, thank God, thank God that I met a good, I met a good woman. She helped me save. Right now we have about 30 K in savings and 25 K and 401k. So we were thinking about, because we're currently going to,

we're planning on moving back to New Jersey, and we were thinking about buying a house. A third house? Wait a minute. You're going to move? Based on what I've learned from your show, my gut feeling is now that I want to get out of debt. Yeah.

So I want to know what the plans, what's my best steps that I can take. Well, thank you for being a new listener. We're honored to have you here. We appreciate it. So you're thinking about moving to New Jersey and marrying this girl, I guess. Oh, we're married already.

Oh, you're married already. Good. Okay. But it took a long time for me to get me up to speed. That's okay. I always made good money, but I had bad habits with money. I understand. You're married already. Good. Okay. But it took a long time for me to get me up to speed. That's okay. I always made good money, but I had bad habits with money. I understand. You're doing okay.

And so thank you again for hanging out with us, and you're going to move to New Jersey when? The end of October. Okay. All right. What do you do for a living? I work in IT. Okay. Cyber security.

Good. Good. All right. So the premise of everything that Jade and I and the rest of the Ramsey people around here do is based on a simple formula that says, okay, what is the shortest, fastest, safest right way between where you are and becoming wealthy? Okay? So, in other words, we're trying to figure out, okay, what's efficient, and part of efficiency is lowering risk.

Does that make sense? Yeah. So let me define risk for you as a guy who owns a whole bunch of rental property and I have for, gosh, going on 50 years now. I've almost been a landlord 50 years. That's scary so um but the uh 40 anyway so the uh uh risk is i have a rental house in orlando and i live in new jersey that's risk that's also known as a pain in the butt. That make sense? Yeah.

So I'm going to always move you, and I like real estate. I like what you're thinking about real estate. And you've obviously been thinking about money stuff, and that's what led you to find us, but also led you to do some of the other stuff you've done. So, you know, you might be bad with money in your own mind or based on what you've heard in the last two weeks, but I think you're a guy who thinks about this stuff a lot. And so it's going to lead me to sell both houses when I move to New Jersey

and maybe the $30,000 car and get a good start for a good fresh start. Because I know that I know for sure, having walked the path with millions of people, that the fastest way for you to become wealthy is to get control of your $130,000 income and quit giving it all to everybody else. Right. How does that hit you? I hear you soaking it in, Giancarlo. I am.

I am. I'm thinking about it. So you're saying my, the best decision that I can make is sell both my houses. Hot. Think about it. He's trying to get you to where you have peace. So if you already know that you want to get a house in New Jersey, let's clear the first two out.

How much do you think that you would clear if you were to sell both of those homes? I can probably buy a house cash if I would sell. Oh, man. Look at that. At your age, you own a cash house in New Jersey making $130,000. Come on. Plus, you didn't even tell me her income. What's her income?

No, she's a stay-at-home mom. Okay. So $130,000 income, no house payment. Oh, we got rid of the car payment, too. That's $600. Gosh, do you have any debt left when we do all that? I don't know if I mentioned before my student debt. It's about $30,000.

Okay. All right, but you've got that money. I mean, if you were to sell this car. Yeah, you've got that in the bank. Sell the car you've got. Get you a little something to get around in. That leaves you some money to clear out a good portion of the student loans. If not all of it.

He's got $30,000 of those. Then you've got the solar panels. Solar panels that could be covered in the sale of the house that are lean on the property. Okay, there you go. I mean, think about that. That's amazing. And now you don't have a house payment you don't have a car payment you're going to knock out those student loans

in two seconds then what i want you to do is save your old house payment save your old car payment and save anything else you can squeeze out of your budget and pay cash for your next rental in about four years okay and then you know what and then when you have a paid for house and a paid for rental and no debt at all by the way your income will go up during that four years too and so during all of that time then you're going to see you're gonna be sitting on two hundred thousand dollar income in five years with no payments and uh not to mention your rental income and then the next one you pay cash for will come even quicker, and the next one will come even quicker. You know how I know that is because I did it. The first one's the hardest to pay cash for.

But every time after that, it gives you more money to build. You get a snowball rolling in your favor now. The wheels are turning. The wheels are turning. The wheels are turning. You know, it's funny, Giancarlo. Sometimes when we've made bad mistakes with money it's like you do one thing and it triggers this domino effect of bad

decisions but conversely if you start making the right decisions you start doing the right things it triggers that same domino effect of of good things paying off your debt being able to do the things that you want to do and so this is an exciting day in my opinion. Yeah. So what we're really challenging you with is you need to come up with a philosophy of handling money that is going to cause you to become wealthy with the least risk, the fastest. And by the way, the fastest is with the least risk. Best way to get rich quick, get rich slow. That's the fastest way to get rich and keep it. Yeah. Hang on. We're going to send you a copy of the book, The Total Money Makeover. It's up 10 million people do this. This is The Ramsey Show. jade washall ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones at 888-825-5225 today's

question of the day is sponsored by neighborly your hub for home services if you own rental property neighborly's local rental real property management offices can manage them and help you optimize your ROI and peace of mind. Visit neighborly.com to schedule a consultation with real property management pros near you. Today's question comes from Jenny in Arkansas. She says, if I'm on baby step three, do I still need baby step one of $1,000 or does that become part of the fully funded emergency fund? I assume it's one pot of money now, but I didn't know if I should still keep that separate. That's an interesting question. I mean, yeah, the $1,000 rolls into your three to six months of savings.

Yeah, it disappears. It disappears. And all of that you're keeping ideally in an HYSA, like a high yield savings account. If you wanted to have a little bit of cash in your safe at home, I guess I'm not mad at that, but I'd keep it all in one spot. I personally, Dave, like to keep my money to where it's kind of, it's liquid, but I can't just easily get to it willy nilly. So I'm not keeping it in my sock drawer. I'm not keeping it as part of my checking account. I want to put it somewhere where it's separate. It's over there. You need to

think about it before you pull from it because some people struggle with that. Your emergency fund does not need to have your ATM attached. Okay, that's right. And yes, because some of these HYSAs, they'll give you the option, Dave, to put a debit card with it. Just say no. Nope. Just say no because trust me, I've learned the hard way. Just say no. A couch on sale is not an emergency. That's right. By definition.

That's right. By definition. If you want to save up and buy a couch, that's fine. But by definition, a couch on sale or anything else you decide to impulse your little butt on is not an emergency. And so ATMing and debit carding away your emergency funds is a dumb idea. That's a different point

than her question. Her question is, the $1,000 rolls in. It's all one thing. Maybe step one disappears when you get to three. That's right. It rolls in two, three.

So, I don't have a separate $1,000 other than I carry a redneck emergency fund in my front pocket. That's what I'm saying. Which is $100 bills. I carry $100 bills there.

Dave, don't be telling folks you got hundreds in your pockets. Well, I got stuff in the other pocket that will handle it. Okay, just checking. Just checking. Just checking.

I think we got it covered. We're all right. We're in good shape. Open phones at 888-825-5225. I don't want to mess with you, Dave. Tom is in New York City. Hey, Tom, how are you? I'm great. Thanks so much for taking the call. I really appreciate it. Hey, Tom, how are you? I'm great.

Thanks so much for taking the call. I really appreciate it. Sure. What's up? So I know you had a lot of callers to get to, so I'll cut to the point. So about a year ago, my mother needed a little bit of money to help purchase a home. So I took money against my 401K to lend her some money, $50,000, with the proviso being that when she sold another apartment, she would repay me.

I've decided that since it's my mother, I changed my mind that I don't want the money back. I'm just gifting her that money. I still owe about $35,000 on my 401k loan. The question I have for you is, so at the time I took the loan, the bank interest rates that I was earning, I was only earning about 1%, right? So I've got about $150,000 in cash earning 5% in just the high-yield savings account. So I could, of course, just pay off that 401k loan tomorrow if I wanted to. But here's the thing. I'm only paying the loan at 3.25%.

And as you know, I'm actually paying myself back. I'm not paying any interest to a lending institution. So I'm trying to decide if it makes more sense to just keep paying it down and pay that $35,000 off. You know what happens 90% of the years that follow a bear market in the stock market? What, we have a recession? No, we have a bull market. Oh, there you go. Okay.

And if you'll go back and look at your stock market trend histories, you'll see that almost every time following a bear market, we see a 15 to a 25% rate of return the year following. You're going to miss all of that because you're paying yourself 5% and you're trying to get fancy. Right. Okay. Never borrow on your 401K. Never use borrowed money on your 401K to try to build wealth and never try to arbitrage the money on your 401K to make a spread, in other words, which is what you're talking about. All of these things, you're nickeling and diming.

You're stepping over dollars picking up nickels. Okay. Well, let me throw one other caveat at you to just see if it changes anything. So I only have about 10 more payments on my mortgage on my apartment, but I do need to sell it and upgrade to a larger space because I have a child now. So I am trying to stockpile cash for the down payment. So does that change the equation at all that I want to have as much deposit as I wouldn't tell you to borrow on your 401k to buy your new apartment and essentially it's the same thing if you don't pay it off okay I'm still because I'm still paying down a loan in other words if you don't pay this loan off

so that you can put money down more money down on the new apartment which is your question that I understand you're right correct that has the same effect on your finances as if you had borrowed on your 401k to put more money down on your new apartment you follow me okay i just yeah i do i do follow you from a balance sheet perspective so yeah no it does not change the equation as a matter of fact it puts more pressure on the answer for you to do it the way we said. Clean this up and quit trying to borrow your way into wealth. It doesn't work. Okay.

Gotcha. Okay. Thanks for calling, man. We appreciate it. Sorry, the button a little quick. I'm out of practice. I don't know, Dave. I feel like you had a little snappy on that.

No, I didn't mean to. I'm just out of practice. I'm out of practice being nice. That was pretty nice. That was pretty nice. I felt some heat waves coming off you. Did you? A little bit.

Okay. I'm here for it. Are you? Yes. Good. Okay. I'm glad. Well, word is, while I was gone, that you were the one doing that.

So what do I know? Look, I'll let you be the pit doing that, so what do I know? Look, I'll let you be the pit bull today, and I'm just here. I'm not the pit bull. You want me to be? Do I get to be the pit bull? Yeah, you're in charge. You and Rachel.

If we didn't think you were in charge, you're in charge. Rosalind's with us in Kansas City. Hi, Rosalind. What's up? Hi. Thanks for taking my call. I have a question. We don't have any debt except for the house. I am starting a full-time job teaching next month,

and my husband wants to put everything, just max everything we can for retirement. And I would like to take whatever I take home to put towards paying off our house. We have a 2.25% 15 year fixed with about 227,000 left on it. And we've been using, I've been subbing and we've been using subbing money to travel. So he'd rather use what I come home. We have three kids out of state. So he'd rather use what I come home we have three kids out of state so he'd rather use my come take home money to travel and um but I want to try and put a percent towards the house paying down the house where he says our interest rate is so low that we don't need to do that and we'd rather invest when you say that he wants to max out retirement, does that exceed your 15%? For me, I haven't been working full-time.

I've been a stay-at-home mom, and so he wants me to catch up. And his biggest thing is retirement. He doesn't think we can retire unless I'm working full-time. We don't need the money to live. How old are y'all, Rosalie? How old are y'all? 50, 50 and 52. So he's not concerned enough about retirement to quit traveling.

Right. Because that's my extra money, right? No, it's not extra money. It's all money. It's all money, and it's all in one pile, and the two of you own it, and you're 50 years old. Yes. And traveling is fine, but when you separate it so that you get to do what you want to do, that's called spoiled. And so, no, that's not a plan.

So, you know, what we're going to tell you to do is take your whole household income. You take your whole household income times 0.15, 15%. That much should be going into retirement. Any money that's left over in your budget above 15% going into retirement should go to paying off your house extra if there's any left after you travel. But 15% ought to be going into retirement right now. Not 20%. That's right. Not maxed out.

Not 2%. And quit separating your income. It's one pile of income. And attack your retirement with that 15%, then pay on the house if there's money left after travel, and that'll address the travel issue. This is The Ramsey Show. Jade Walsh, all Ramsey personality, is my co-host today thank you for joining us america we're so

glad you're here open phones at 888-825-5225 philip is with us in pittsburgh hi philip welcome to the ramsey show hey dave how you doing better than i deserve. What's up? Well, I had a question. My wife and I have been on Big Step 2 for a while. I only make about $50,000 to $55,000 a year. And I've been working at my dad's shop. He's been here for about 40 years or so. And he's been talking about wanting to retire in the next year or two and was wondering if I wanted to take over, like buy it and take over.

But I'm not 100% sure if that's the right move forward for me or if I should consider something else. I've never really considered myself a business person, never really had a dream of taking over. I just kind of worked here as a auto repair technician for most of my life. So I'm kind of hoping to get my income up a little more, and I didn't know if I should somehow figure out how to take over and run the shop or if I should consider something else. I just wanted to get your advice on the situation. So it's an auto repair shop, and you're an auto repair technician,

and he owns the shop. And how many bays is it? About three bays. And how many technicians? It's just me and Dad does some of the repair work on the when he's not running the office and we have one other guy that does body work but he doesn't really do technician stuff. So your dad does not turn wrenches anymore? Sometimes but yeah not not full-time just sometimes when we get a little

behind. Yeah and how have you been doing this? I've been here off and on for the last 20, 25 years. Just kind of grew up next to it and worked here as a kid growing up. Are you scared of it or you don't want to do it? um i'm not uh very good at like making decisions and being the final authority on things so i didn't think running it would be a good thing but i don't also don't know if that's something i can learn to make it profitable um so it's kind of both i guess how old are you i'm 36 So it's kind of both, I guess. How old are you?

I'm 36. You make decisions working on the cars every day. Yeah, but I just kind of check them over and see what's wrong and let him call the customer and decide what they want to do with it. If you were to take this business on, would you kind of do the way your dad does where you're just doing the administrative part, or would you try to juggle both and do that while you're also working on vehicles?

Well, I'm not sure. I enjoy working on the cars. Yeah, I can tell. So if I went into the... Do you have any idea what kind of profit he's making? Not for sure. We've never really talked about specific numbers or anything, so I don't really know.

I know we're really busy and have lots of cars here, but where's the numbers? I don't know. So even if you wanted to buy the business, you're not sure what it would take or what the deal would look like? Right. How old's your dad? He's 68. All right.

Okay, so let's run a couple of scenarios down. It doesn't sound like you want to run this business. I mean, nothing in this conversation screams, Philip owns and runs a business. Nothing here. You don't want to. You don't feel up to it. It intimidates you.

The idea of having to do what he does every day sounds like hell to you yeah okay so you don't want to run this business sir i mean i'm just saying back to you what you said i agree i don't think it doesn't make sense based off of what you've said to earn to possibly earn a little bit more and take on responsibilities that you don't want yeah i i just now have you got certifications i don't uh because i grew up working here so i mean i never needed them um because he's either going to sell this or close it if you don't buy it. Right.

He's 68. There's an end to this. Right. You're not going to be doing what you do in that bay exactly the way you do it 10 years from today. Zero chance. Yeah. Yeah, I know. Is there a way?

I just don't know the right way to talk to him about it or see how to move forward if I don't take it over. Well, the way forward is you're going to be working for somebody else and you're going to have to go get some certifications to do that probably. Yeah. To prove that you know what you and I know that you know. You know it, but you're going to have to be able to prove it to work in a dealership or work in a you know a more certified shop situation right am i wrong yeah yeah no yeah you're right yeah yeah so um you know and i don't know i i have no idea i i but i i can't think that you're going to be happy

doing a bunch of stuff you don't want to do just for some more money. Yeah. Even if it doubled your income, it doesn't make it fun. That's right. Right. Yeah. So, I mean, the idea of dealing with the customers, and you know and I know that a percentage of them are crazy, especially when their car is broken down.

It's like having a root canal. Nobody's happy, right? And so dentists and car repair people, they deal with unhappy people all day. And so, you know, you don't want to deal with the people side of this. You like making the car run, not the business. But are you feeling any pressure to keep this business going? Like is your dad? Yeah, my dad wants him to do it.

Keeping it in the family, is that what it is yeah yeah he he said that he would like to keep it in the family which and there's no one else that's like hey i'm i'm i'm in management i'm i'd love to be part of this that's part of the family no none of my siblings have shown really any interest in wanting to take it over yeah so you're going to be working for the person that buys it, or you're going to be working for someone else when it closes. Yeah. Or you're going to buy it. So change is in your future, Phillip. I just don't know what the change is going to look like.

And a good idea is to try to decide in advance which change you want and cause that change to happen rather than let this whole thing happen to you so sitting down talking to your dad dad i love you and it's been fun doing all this together all these years i have i would get no joy i would get sheer terror i would get pain i would get ulcers from trying to do what you do every day. I don't want to do that, even for more money. And the fact that you love me enough to want to offer this to me is very kind. Thanks, Dad. I appreciate you. I appreciate getting to work with you all these years, and I'll work with you as long as you want to keep running it. But I'm not your buyer,

because I don't want to run a business. It's not my goal. Even if he bought it and then hired someone to do like day-to-day tasks, I still don't think that'd be good because he'd still have to have some, you know what I mean? You still have to have involvement in that part of it. When you run a business, it's different than working on a car. Yeah. And when you run a business, it's different than installing heat and air. When you run a business, it's different than painting. Whole air. When you run a business, it's different than painting.

A whole different school set. And so if you're a really great painter and you decide you're in business for yourself, well, now you do accounting and you do marketing and you do personnel and HR and you deal with bankers and you deal with the customers and you deal with all their crap and you deal when they're happy and when they're not happy and you make all that stuff when you're running a business. It's different than doing the task that the business does and so um oftentimes people become accidental entrepreneurs that's right because their business growth you

know the need for their thing they're good at in his case working on a car is so strong and we do need great people working on cars right um we all we all definitely need great people working on cars but the need is so strong that you confuse that with running the skills the skills to work on a car are different than the skills to run a business that's right and philip has recognized that and that's wisdom that is wisdom yeah he's gonna have to find a new job though yeah sad it's transition though one thing you can count on, change. This is The Ramsey Show. Jade Warshaw, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today.

Thank you for joining us, America. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Cody is with us in Dallas. Hi, Cody. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve.

What's up? Hey. So my wife and I, we started the Baby Steps here just a couple weeks ago, and we're on Baby Step 2. We got our $1,000 saved. But now the only debt outside of our house that we have are two cars. And so, um, one car is worth 24,000 and the other car is worth 16,000. Um, and so, uh, we are looking to get rid of the car that's worth 24,000.

Um, and so I've kind of shopped around, uh, just to see just to see what people would offer and everything. And some dealers are coming back saying that they'll give us $18,000 to $19,000 for it. But I also looked on Edmunds and Kelly Blue Book to see what it would sell for privately. And that's saying it would sell around $24,000. So it would basically break even. So you owe $24,000 on it? Yes, sir. Who do you owe the money to?

It is a bank, a hunting bank or something like that. Is it a local bank? No, sir. It's one of those national online banks. Gotcha. Okay. Well, I would... So, I'm sorry. No, go ahead and say what you were going to

say finish your oh i was just going to say um so how do you sell the private or the car privately if you still owe on it the um obvious well i think texas is a title state and the bank is holding your title does that sound right? Yes, sir. Okay. And in order for them to release the title, they need $24,000. So Tennessee is the same way. So when I sold a car, if I sold a car with debt here or bought a car with debt here, as an example, from an individual, I would get a bill of sale from them, the keys to the car, and the car. I would give them the check for the car.

They would send the check to the bank and pay the loan off. The bank would send the title to them, and then they would bring me the title. That might take a few weeks. And so notify Huntington Bank and find out how long it's going to take to get your title from payoff. Okay. And then, like, so whenever I do find a seller for it or something.

A buyer. Buyer, that's right, my bad. Basically just kind of be up front with them about that, you know, saying, hey, you know, I still owe on this car. Yeah, I've got to get the title, and the way I get the title is I pay the loan off. The way I pay the loan off is you pay me, and you get a bill of sale, and you get the car. And that's done all the time there's

nothing sketchy about that at all um i've bought cars from people that way that uh it took me a while to get the title from them i bought an old jeep not long ago and um took a little while to get the title on the thing and um because the guy had to go down to the bank i mean in the old days the bank was in your neighborhood and you'd both go down to the bank. I mean, in the old days, the bank was in your neighborhood, and you'd both go down to the bank, and they'd pull the title out of the file and put it on the table right in front of both of you, and you'd do the transfer all at once, right? But nowadays, the bank is freaking online in some, you know,

other end of the country or something. And, you know, it sounds like this is a bank that does a lot of auto dealer lending maybe even subprime lending and so it they got a probably a bunch of titles it's probably going to take them a little while so i would talk to them about how cumbersome the process is so you can be up front with your buyer some buyers will get nervous and not want to do this. Okay. But for $6,000? Come on. I'm going to the trouble. Oh, yeah, absolutely.

That's exactly what we're wanting to do. There's no way that we want to pay that $6,000 if we don't have to. You don't have to. Not because of this, anyway. Now, what kind of car is it? So it is a 2021 Chevy Malibu. Okay. That car will sell.

Cool. You can sell that car. It's not some kind of weird thing or something. I mean, that's what I was asking about. Now, Dave, you said in a title state, that's the way you would do it. That's the only way I know to do it. Is there another way? I don't know. I mean, there are other situations where the title is done differently.

Okay. And I don't know how to process it there because I've never done okay but i've done i actually did buy a car in texas come to think of it a long time ago and um had it brought to tennessee in the same situation the cow was in financial trouble and i bought his car a long long time ago and um in another life but yeah you know that's exactly but but um and i actually i think that's the way it happens in almost all states but i think there might you know always leave room for stuff i don't know which is like california everything i don't know is in california so heather is in honolulu and i don't know anything there either

hi heather how are you hey dave hi jade how you guys doing good how can we help? Okay. I wrote some things down. So I'm taking a $4,000 pay cut. We made our HELOC larger to consolidate everything to compensate for the HELOC. And then I started obsessively listening to the show. My question is, we have equity in our home. And we're thinking about selling our house house moving into a house that my husband and brother-in-law have inherited that just sits there uh it's closer closer to town and work and school um you know i guess are we doing the right thing by selling our house that we have now we have two empty bedrooms because i had five i have five kids but three three of them are older and don't live with us anymore.

Won't you sell the house that they own together? I'm sorry, what was that? Won't you sell the house they own together? It'd be, there is another house on the property, so it's two houses on the property, and his aunt lives in the other house, so we can't sell it until she either passes or moves out. Relationally, you can't. You own the other house, too. You own the other house, too.

Correct. But she could stay there for about, you know, who knows how long. It's up on a hill, so they think that think that you know when she can't make the stairs anymore she'll move out because she owns her house she rents out her house and lived in that house for free because both houses were in a trust to my brother and or my husband and brother-in-law so that would be definitely ideal so that one more time the aunt the only hold she has on this whole situation is relationally, not legally, correct? No, legally in the trust, she's allowed to reside there until she... Oh, she's got a life estate.

Yes. Oh, okay. Yeah, that does cloud the title. Okay. So we kind of have to wait. Yeah, no, you don't kind of. You do. Yeah, we do we do but the other house just sits there so we can move into the other house that's paid for for

free and we basically skip the steps and you know just start saving cut? I took a different job within the, we both work for the government. And I took a different position so that we were mandated six days a week. And so now it'll be five days a week. Did I hear you say at the beginning of the call that you had a HELOC and you rolled some other debt into it? That is correct, yes. Here's my, and I know there's not a way around it with the property situation, but my issue here is you keep trying to find ways out of your debt that does not involve actually paying your debt.

And I don't really want that behavior to continue. Does that make sense? And you had this convenient option, you know, oh, we could just move over here. And, you know, I'm not talking you out of, you know, if you want to move and there's a house there and it's free and what, but something's got to change behaviorally or else you're just gonna keep doing this. Okay. What's your household income um well we were over no no no nowadays what uh 240 okay and how much debt do you have um just the the HELOC is now 400 and that's everything. So 186 was the, actually, because you take out a jumbo loan in Hawaii when we bought our house. So 186 was the actual from still the house. 78 is student loans, my daughter's and mine. 50,000 was solar, and then home improvements, and like 10 was consumer debt.

But all of that's now 400? Yes. Yes. Correct. Why don't you live on beans and rice making $240 and pay off $400 and just stay? You don't like your house? I think you're moving to a trashy house. It's a quick fix, Dave. It's looking for a quick fix.

I think you guys need to get on some beans and rice. You make a quarter million dollars a year and you're broke. You spend like you're in Congress. So, yeah, you really need to get your budget dialed down and get this debt paid off. That's what I would do. Take you about three years of living on nothing to do it. That's what I would do and keep your house. This is The Ramsey Show.

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