The Ramsey Show - App - Ramsey’s Take on Fair & Equitable Taxation (Hour 2)

Episode Date: March 7, 2023

Dave Ramsey & Ken Coleman answer your questions and discuss: "When can we pull money from our investments to build our dream home?" What Ramsey thinks about the proposed Fair Tax Act, "How should I save?" from the blog: How Much Should I Have in Savings? Selling the house to pay off debt. Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET Want a plan for your money? Take our FREE 3 minute assessment: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6 Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the pods of Moving and Storage Studios, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Open phones this hour, 888-825-5225. My co-host today, Ken Coleman of The Ken Coleman Show, author of the number one bestselling book, From Paycheck to Purpose. He is our Ramsey personality, specializing in jobs and careers.

You got questions along those lines lines we're certainly here to help the phone number 888-825-5225 mark is in detroit hey mark what's up hey uh thanks for taking my call today how you guys doing better than we deserve sir how can we help good uh my wife and i are 42 42 and 41 years, and we've made it to baby step seven. And I'm calling with a question on what we do as far as an intentional act for our goal that we have for retirement. We own everything that we have. We have zero debt, zero credit cards, and I think about $350,000 in an investment portfolio at the bank. And my question is, is our goal is to purchase land in Eastern Tennessee and build a house and

retire there in about seven to 10 years. And the question is, when do we pull that money out to purchase it? Because I know land in that side of the state goes up kind of quick, and investments can raise too. So when do we pull that trigger? Is it sooner rather than later, or do we do it right before we are ready to build and move down there? Yeah, I would do it right before you move down there.

The land in East Tennessee isn't going up any faster than anywhere else. That's not – I mean, I grew up – I mean, I was born there. I grew up in Tennessee. I've been doing real estate deals all over Tennessee and including the mountains of East Tennessee. So now it's, it's, it's good. It's a good, it's a good plan. I love your plan, but it's not like, you know, you're going to get priced out of the market or something. So what do you make?

So my wife and I, our take home is $150,000. Excellent. And yeah. Excellent. Yeah. Good for you. So you've got seven years to pile up some cash. What's the size of this project, do you think, money-wise? I'm guessing between purchasing the land and building it, we're aiming somewhere around $850,000.

And our current home is worth $550,000 to $600,000. And with the money that we have in the bank and the money that we can make between now and then when we retire. You have the money now. If you sold your house, you could go do it now, but you're just not ready to do it right now. Yeah, it's a matter of I have seven and a half years to go until I retire. And when I retire, I'll have a pension for the rest of my life and my wife's life.

Yeah. But my point is, the $550,000 house plus $350,000 in investment portfolio, today you've got the money, right? Correct. So, I mean, if you liquidate both those, boom, we got it. Now you've got no money left after you did the deal, but you got the money. So you've got seven years to build your nest egg is what it amounts to. Now, your $350,000 invested at the bank, is that in good growth stock mutual funds?

Yes, sir. Okay. And so if the money earns 10%, it will double every seven years. Yes. So that $350,000 will be $700,000. Okay. Oh, by the way, your $550,000 house is going to be approaching $1 million by the time you get to seven years.

Right. Okay. So right there is $1.7 million. That's with adding nothing to what you've already got, and, of course, you're going to add to it. Am I right? Yes, sir. Yeah, we're expecting to try and throw at least $60,000 at it every year.

Yeah. So what I would do if I were in your plan is I would enjoy the adventure of this whole plan. Yeah. And that means I'm going to, in about three years, I'm going to have a big old pile of cash added to that $350,000 in some good investments. And I'm going to spend a year poking around the hills of east tennessee figuring out where i want to set up camp here yeah we had that's where most of our money has come from actually that uh we had some real estate down there and then we sold it um when all you know when everybody started moving to that to that area so we sold it and then we've just invested

that money so um we have an idea of where we want to go, and we've kind of been poking around that area. Okay, so the adventure continues then, right? Yes, sir. Martin, it's okay to go ahead and buy the land as long as you're ready to pay cash for it. Yep, yeah. It's happening.

My wife sort of like a baby step slash yes ma'am program. So she was very much on purchasing everything with cash, no mortgages ever again, and I'm very much on board with that. What do you think you're going to spend on the land? Well, it kind of depends. First, we started out with mountains, and we were thinking about $100,000. Then when she saw mountains with a lake, that budget got a little bit higher.

So I think we're trying to limit ourselves to no more than $150. So you could buy the land whenever you find it then? Yes, sir. That's the question. That's okay, but you don't have to buy it because it's going to go up. I'm just going to – I like the art of the deal. I like hunting for stuff, looking for a bargain, finding the right thing, walking away from – you have seven years to discover the coolest property of all

for $150,000 to $250,000 and write a check for it when you find it. But there's no rush. Mark, I'm curious. Do you plan to never work again, or do you plan to just take a couple years and see what happens? So I'm probably going to, after seven years, my kids will have three more years of high school. So I'll probably work until they're all out of high school and into college,

and we're already putting money away for them for college as well. So they can go to college. So you're going to work from East Tennessee? Yeah, I'd love to. I wouldn't mind it at all. I figured I'd have to do something. I can't just sit on my phone. Well, you probably ought to do something anyway.

It's just good for you. Yeah. Man, it's not made to completely retire and do nothing. I agree. People die when they do that. It's just a matter of trying to figure out, and that's what I'm working on now, too, is what do I do when I retire? Well, and the reason I ask the question is because that brings in some money to this equation that we haven't talked about yet.

It's not like you're going to completely go from what you're making now to zero. So it just furthers what Dave is saying, man. Just go enjoy it and find the right place when you find it. But you don't need to go buy something now because it's going to price you out between now and seven years. It's not. Okay years it's not okay it's not and but i would enjoy the process of looking for a good deal on a killer piece of land with some lake frontage or whatever it is you're looking for there that would be neat i wouldn't and there's some beautiful stuff in the area you're talking about i mean world class it's pretty country it's it's beautiful

country it really is so yeah there you go that's what i would do now that the cool thing about this is that you're going to be fine because you're actually doing it on purpose where people screw up with this kind of stuff is when they just they wake up one morning go oh god and then they just you know you know and they just have this moment and then they go that's when you go buy a beach property that you should have never bought land fever yeah you just get this weird thing going and then and then you wake up three months later going i the guy in my mirror is an idiot yeah that kind of stuff because he who is impulsive exalts folly. Mark is the opposite end of that. He's super intentional, planning way, way out there. Yeah, very, very interesting.

Very interesting. Hey, good call, man. Good work. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, you guys. Health insurance costs are only moving one way, and that way isn't down. And if higher costs aren't enough, the wait times to see your doctor are longer, and it's harder than ever to get

anything approved through the bureaucracy. So if you feel like the system is working against you, try a biblically-based alternative to health insurance, Christian Healthcare Ministries. CHM is a health cost-sharing ministry that's helped hundreds of thousands of families like yours take care of over $11 billion in medical bills since 1981. And CHM has also helped them stay true to their values and avoid miles of red tape. And CHM support goes far beyond meeting financial needs. They'll also help meet spiritual needs. Members become part of a family who will pray with them and for them when they experience a medical event.

So listen, y'all, there's no better way to take care of health care costs. CHM programs start as low as $98 a month. So learn more today and join at chministries.org slash budgets at chministries.org slash budgets. Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality is my co-host today as we answer your questions at 888-825-5225. Jonathan in Idaho gives us our question of the day all right sorry dave i was slow on the draw here it is uh i was wondering if you have an opinion on the proposed fair tax act that would eliminate federal taxes impose a national sales tax on new goods purchased and eliminate the irs as we know it that's the perfect question for the two of us.

I don't know two people that hate taxes more than me and Dave Ramsey. Well, I've always been a fan of this. In fact, I lived for years in Atlanta, and Neil Bortz, who was a well-known local talk radio guy, you're probably friends with Neil. I know Neil well. He was a big proponent of this and wrote a book on it. He wrote a show several times back in the day talking about this. He had a best-selling book on it.

Best-selling book on this very issue. And I'm not going to endorse the book, nor am I going to endorse the policy, but I like the direction that it's heading, and I'll tell you why. I think a sales tax, it forces the consumer to kind of deal with it, and it's not the federal government mandating what is taken from my income um i i like the flat tax idea which is really the the guts of what neil bortz was was kind of proposing and that's everybody pays the same tax rate there's this cultural divide now that the media uh and a lot of people on the left have created this fairness

doctrine that the person who makes more should have to pay a higher percentage. And it's become this virtuous idea. And in all reality, if you look at the actual data, now folks, some of you are going to get offended right now, and that's okay. But here's what I want you to do. While you're getting offended, I want you to actually go on this thing called google and i want you to do your own research be brave enough to research what i'm saying because here's what you'll find most people in america in fact it's right below 50 i believe it's now 51 51 dave corrects me don't pay any federal income tax and yet we're going after. And wait a minute. And let's go a step further. Yeah, sure.

And a large number of that group not only don't pay. Right. They receive. That's correct. The unearned income tax credit. That's right. Meaning they get money back from the government. It's only it's not back from the government because they never gave it to them in the first place.

It's an entitlement. It's they are given. That's right. Their lives are subsidized. And you're not evil if that's you. Okay. We're not mad at you about that. That's the given that's right their lives are subsidized and and you're not you're not evil if that's you okay we're not mad at you about that that's the system that's in place but 51 of americans pay absolutely nothing yeah so this idea in the federal income tax program that that's not that's not fair that's right so then they say not only that's happening but now they

want to have people who are wealthy who help create jobs by the way it helped create enough tax income for all of the entitlements that those 51 percent get you want to put more burden on those folks so i love the flat tax that is kind of the fair tax is a sales tax exactly flat tax i know but i i love the actual flat tax on an income tax because i think that that is truly equitable and everybody now is paying the same amount. And so, you know, I'm a fan of that. It's not even close to happening. It's a discussion to try to get people jacked up, and it's been going on for 20-plus years. That book is worth reading because the biggest gripe that people have mathematically, and it's a fair argument, is that under a fair tax, an ad valorem tax, a national sales tax, and no income tax at all, then you would have to, you would need to, for it to be correct, for it to be equitable, not fair, for it to be equitable.

And Bortz's proposal, the actual fair tax people are proposing this, you would have exemptions on things like food. Because if you make $30,000 a year and you pay sales tax on everything you buy, you end up paying a larger percentage of your income in taxes than, say, I would. And that's not equitable. I wouldn't want a single mom making $20,000 to have a higher tax rate than I do. That's not right. And so you have to have some exemptions in there on income and on types of purchases to make the thing start to have some more equity to it.

But the beauty of it is you consume, you choose. That's correct. Now, in the state of Tennessee, this is actually what we have. We have a moderately to high sales tax, 9.75%, about 10%, okay, is our sales tax in the state of Tennessee. And we have zero income tax. And our economy is booming. Yes.

Yeehaw. Because people come here like crazy that are producing things like jobs and businesses. And they come here, they're moving in here. Same thing with Texas, same thing with Florida. The states that don't have an income tax have prospered inordinately. Art Laffer has written a lot about this. That's right.

And so it's a very interesting discussion. Now, you can get all pissed off and lefty or righty about it one way or the other if you want, but you probably ought to just listen to one of those political shows to do all that stuff that that's not political this is math right okay it is not equitable not fair for people to pay absolutely zero that's correct whether they're rich or whether they're poor and 51 of americans pay zero income tax at the federal level zero none that's a half of you and it kind of describes why the voting falls where it does it actually the voting falls about that way okay on national elections and so you know and it you're right it has been trumped up by the that's bad bad phrasing but

bad phrasing yes right it's been it's been pushed by the uh the media because they can sell hate that's correct and you know make the poor people hate the rich people the rich people hate the poor people yeah all this kind of stuff this class division thing and you know if we can create division to keep people angry they'll keep watching our news channel and that's not a good plan so uh i mean i've spent a lot of time back 20 years ago i was on boards to show several times we discussed this it was a very interesting discussion yeah it's well thought out it's a good intellectual exercise but jonathan here's the truth it's not gonna happen that's that's the

other side of it okay you're not gonna get a fair tax a national sales tax to do away with the irs your your lips to god's ears that the irs went away but uh but they're not going it's there's too much going on here i mean here's the thing you put the income tax business out of business i mean you're talking about h&r block turbo tax are gone gone oh yeah just poof well all the entitlements nothing to do all those government agents you think they're going to be for this no new yeah yeah the entire establishment will never allow this to happen the people could make it happen but outside of that that's a whole different show. Yeah, you'd have to just fire everybody's buckets up there, which really would be a great idea.

It would be, but it's interesting. Because when you start looking at this, you've got to understand, too, that we hear inflation in the news every day. Let's talk about one of the most hotbed issues, hotbutton issues in America right now is inflation. But here's the deal. If the people of America en masse, let's say they got a hold of what we teach here on the Ramsey Show, and they all started budgeting, and they went to the envelope system, they used those wallets, and they did everything the way we teach, and they said, you know what? We're going to severely cut back on all of our excess spending. Four, four walls, that's it. Watch how prices would come down, Dave,

because these could target Walmart. If Ramsey met the minimalists in the marketplace and all of America adopted. For 90 days, Dave, I think 90 days. It'd be like putting people on strike. Yeah, and then watch prices come down. America adopted. For 90 days, Dave. I think 90 days is all. It'd be like putting people on strike. Yeah. And then watch prices come down.

It would shut the freaking place down. Yeah. Yeah. You'd get some Bozo's attention. Yeah. I got to tell you. I mean, Bezo's attention. It would put some dent in the inflation.

But we spend like drunken sailors as Americans. Credit cards at an all-time high. No. Sailors get a bad reputation. Drunken congressmen. That's a fair point. They spend a lot more all-time high. No, sailors get a bad reputation. Drunken congressmen. That's a fair point. They spend a lot more. That's true. Sorry, sailors. Don't be messing with our sailors. Both my grandfathers were in the Navy. I should

stipulate. It is a great old saying. It is. It was more stereotypically true in the old days. But yeah, there we go. So, Jonathan, sorry. It's a good thing to give us a little soapbox on here, but appreciate you asking the question. Not going to happen.

Wouldn't make any of us mad if something like this or something moved in this direction where everybody, everybody ought to put something in the, you know, everybody ought to put something in the pot. You ought to pay your military. That's right. You ought to pay for your interstate you're driving on. Everybody ought to put something in.

This is the ramsey show ken coleman ramsey personality is my co-host today in the lobby of ramsey solutions on the debt-free stage abby's with us hey abby how are you hey dave and ken good how are you great how are you you look like happy Abby. I'm super happy. I like it. Where do you live? I live in Indianapolis, Indiana. Awesomeness. And how much debt have you paid off, Abby?

I paid off $51,511. Cool. How long did this take? 29 months. Good for you. And your range of income during that two and a half years? I started out at $48,000 and with all the other jobs up to $68,000. Cool. What do you do for a living? I was working at a cancer research organization as an

administrative officer, but I just started my own business and went full-time in January. I'm a pet care professional. Oh, cool. Cool. Making more than you were. Yes. Absolutely. Good for you. So what kind of debt was the $52,000? Everything. So student loans, credit cards, a family loan, medical debt, a car. So about. Kind of normal. Yeah, pretty much. How old are you? I'm 32. Okay. So what happened when you're 30 years old and you're looking around going, this is not working? How'd you get connected this Ramsey way?

So I first heard about you from my sister. She's my twin over here, Rebecca. She got her and her family, they got out of debt using your program too. And she told me about it and she gave me your book for Christmas. But of course course i didn't care too much i put it in the closet oh you're that twin i am that twin but she yeah she gave it to me and i didn't really yeah pay too much attention to it but i did have every dollar for a couple years i just didn't really get into it but um meanwhile

you're watching her succeed she was listening to it and i was just like well yeah but you're watching her succeed you what you knew she was doing good yes yeah okay all right then what what snapped um so i think around covid um is the thick of covid 2020 and august september um i was already going through a really difficult time like emotionally with relationships and financially it was really hard I would always look in my bank account and see like negative 75 cents on a Tuesday and I don't get paid till Thursday and no gas in the tank so that was like often something that happened to me and then I would always have to like borrow money from a friend my sister she would like and it was embarrassing and like even like one time and I was on a

work trip and I was supposed to um I arrived to the work trip I thought the hotel was paid for trip um I had kind of screwed up and didn't have the hotel paid for so they asked for my credit card I had no money so I kind of had like a panic a mini panic attack in the hotel room again had to borrow money for a short time to get that paid off and it was one of many of those things that happened and I just was sitting in actually with a counselor at the time and she was doing the same thing your program to get out of debt. God he's everywhere. Yeah and I thought like maybe I'll just start listening to like the Ramsey show and just see what happens and so I started listening to it then and then I figured why don't I just go and do financial peace so I started that I didn't know how I'd get my first first thousand because when I did my

budget there was like over budget even after I did like all the minimum payments but somehow in the first couple months I got my first thousand and then I just started paying off I did like all the minimum payments. But somehow in the first couple months, I got my first $1,000, and then I just started paying off. I got like eight extra jobs throughout the two years. What was your best extra job, money-wise? I would say like probably either like pet sitting or chipped. Interesting. Now, I got to know, did that spark the interest to this new

self-owned business you entrepreneur you debt-free entrepreneur you and actually thanks to you too yeah it was um i've already always loved animals and i've already been working with animals for a long time and i had no idea how i'd like be able to make money like working for animals because i would use like the apps where they kind of take part of a portion of your pay um um if you're working so i started um i figured out if i raised my prices i could um start my own business and so i and then word of mouth goes great yeah i have a lot of people yeah that's incredible busy already i'm telling you people americans what they'll spend on their pets is absurd and you are the beneficiary of that good for you yeah they spend more on them than their kids

way to go way to go how's it feel to be free it's so awesome it's definitely a weight off my shoulder yeah well you're smiling bro that's for sure i'm so proud of you okay now you've been through all this stuff you kind of resisted for a while yeah and then you went all in uh what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is um it's okay so definitely just like believing i know you if you think you can't do it you can do it because i didn't ever think i could do it i've never saved i've never had any money in my bank account like ever in my whole life and now i do um and like just waking up every day it could be a good day whether it's a good day or bad day just like um the one thing that doesn't change is like your goal to be debt free that never changed for me

changed your confidence overall didn't yeah it changed everything now that you've got some money in the bank because it means you are in control now there's some agency some idea that you have the dignity of your destiny in your hands yeah and then you go open a business and it's going to go zoom yeah never thought i would do that ever that's so cool so proud of you thank you very well done and i'm sure rebecca is yes they came down here to cheer you on. Yep. Right? They're her whole family. Yeah. Very cool. They should. They should. Very good. We're proud of you here.

Way to go. Absolutely well done, Abby. Excellent, excellent job. We've got the Live and Give bundle for you to say thanks for coming all the way down here from Indianapolis to do your debt-free scream. That's the Total Money Makeover book and the Baby Steps Millionaires book. That one's, that's definitely your path from here on. And another membership to Financial Peace University, you can give that to someone and help them get started on their journey.

Because I'm sure a couple people have asked what happened that caused that big smile. Because I bet it's different now. Yes. Well done. Very, very well done. Abby from Indianapolis, $52,000 paid off in 29 months, making $48,000 to $68,000. Most importantly, though, lands in her own new business, and this is how America works. I love it.

Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. I'm debt-free! Yeah! There it is. That's how it works right there oh man beautiful job absolutely fabulous fabulous that she's inspiring oh completely now she goes from victim her whole life financially to now she's a victor she's in

total charge got an incredible future doing something she loves it's unbelievable well no it's not true it's very believable we see this all the time yeah and you've been seeing these career breakthroughs like this on your show everywhere now we're going to take it on the road we got the career breakthrough events in kansas city april the 20th chicago, May 16th, Atlanta, Georgia, May 18th, and Dallas, Texas, May 23rd with Ken Coleman. What are you going to be talking about? I'm going to be talking about the formula to make sure you break through what's been holding you back professionally and financially. Dave, you said for decades that your income is your greatest wealth-building tool, and we also know that everybody longs to make their mark in this world.

So we're going to be talking about clarity confidence and courage they're not a mystery that's a formula because if you want to break through even financial in your life you've got to have clarity which will give you confidence to step out and courage to stay on the path and then which is exactly what abby did that's exactly what she did she she saw a plan not only in her starting her business but in getting out of debt. So the baby steps are a clear path, getting clear. What's the problem? What's the solution? And she got clear, and then she got around people at Financial Peace, and that's where the confidence comes in that she can do it, and then she stayed with it.

So it's going to be a fun event, Dave. These are really fun and intimate theaters. I'm going to be taking questions live from the crowd after speaking and sharing that formula so that people can walk away with absolute confidence to do what they were created to do. And here's the benefit of that. More money and more meaning. That's what we're going to give people is the ability to get over. Dave, you hear this all the time. Imposter syndrome, fear of failure. I got an idea. Which is the best idea? That's what we're going to be addressing. People that want to get ahead, Dave, you hear this all the time, imposter syndrome, fear of failure. I got an idea, which is the best idea. That's what we're going to be addressing. People that want to get ahead financially and professionally. Career breakthrough events are going to be small, intimate events where you're able to take questions and deal with it and help people all the way through. You're going to get a get clear assessment as part of your $50 ticket. And they're going to be Kansas City, Chicago, Atlanta, Dallas, all in April and May. To get your tickets, go to RamseySolutions.com slash events.

Don't miss it. Ken is coming to a city near you. This is The Ramsey Show. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. This is The Ramsey Show. Common sense for your life and your dollars and cents. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Charlotte's in Burlington, Vermont.

Hi, Charlotte. How are you? Hi, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. How can we help? Yeah. Well, first of all, I just kind of want to preface with a lot of

this stuff is new to me. I've kind of just been a big saver most of my life. So now I'm kind of learning a lot more from you and other people in my life about just handling my money better. So yeah, I am kind of at a place where, like I said, I had secured like $45,000 in my savings. And my parents and other people are like, you've got to kind of do something with that money. I am debt free, so there's not that going on anymore. But yeah, I basically have set up a Vanguard account and I don't have retirement through my job. So I put like $12,000 in a Roth IRA, but then I have that remaining, um, like 23,000. And it's kind of one of those things where I'm

not really sure what to do with it. Um, I don't, like I said, it's not in my savings anymore. I want to be investing in and, um, doing something with that money, but I'm not necessarily sure what direction to go in. I don't have, like, an immediate goal of, like, well, I want to buy a house at this point, you know? So I just kind of want to be wise in planning for the future but doing something with that money now. Gotcha.

Okay. Well, you're doing great, by the way. You're in the top 3% or 4% of Americans because you actually save money, which makes you very weird in a good way, okay? So that's very cool. Good job. All right, so the first thing we teach people to save for is for emergencies, and you should have some of this money set aside in a simple money market account

just for emergencies, and the amount is three to six months of household expenses. What's it take you to operate if you had no income for three months and six months? And somewhere between there would be the amount. Do you have any money earmarked for emergencies now? I do. I have about like $12,000 set aside. And what do you make?

Yeah. I make $44,000 a year. That's probably pretty close okay so if you want to put a little bit more in it wouldn't hurt anything but 12 15 000 is probably going to be in really nice emergency fund and you never touch that except for emergencies right once you label that account the emergency fund you can't use that money unless it's an emergency. Okay. And I want a new car is not an emergency.

I want to go on a trip is not an emergency. You following me? Yes. Okay, so we've got that money labeled, and it kind of just sits there, doesn't do anything. It's your insurance policy against life bringing you crap. Okay? Yeah.

Now, then once you've got that, then the second thing you save for is you save for purchases. And so if you're going to move up in car, you're going to buy a couch, you're going to go on a vacation, you're going to save up and pay for that. And I would do that on a separate account so it doesn't get mixed up with emergencies. And it doesn't sound like you've got anything on the horizon so if you don't have that account today that's okay and then that leaves you how much money um yes i have 23 000 left to do something with and you put that in a vanguard account you said what type of vanguard s&p 500 um it's an individual brokerage right now okay all right i would personally just park it in s&p 500 it's going to do whatever the stock market does it's

not a lot of risk okay uh it's not super uh it's just going to do whatever the market does so the market does good it's going to do good and i've got a bunch of my personal money sitting in that right now, S&P 500 fund. And because later on you're going to use that probably for a house in the future. Would you agree? Right. Yeah, that's kind of my longer-term goal, but it's like I don't have time for that. But today we're not ready to do that. So we'll just label that future house fund.

So the good thing, what I'm teaching you to do here is the little bit of fine-tuning to what you're already good ideas is just labeling these savings accounts. Yeah. Yeah. And then you need to get your Roth IRAs going and have that be part of your budget that you just automatically each month have it drafted out of your checking account into a good growth stock mutual fund for your Roth IRAs. If you don't have an easy way to do that, click RamseySolutions.com, click on Smart Investor, and you'll find one of the people in the investment world that we endorse in your area that we recommend. They'll have the heart of a teacher, and they'll sit down with you and help you decide what's best for you

in this situation. And probably get that other Roth IRA that you've already done moved over there as well and get it all moving. But you're really, really, really doing a good job. Yeah, I love what you just shared with her because here's someone who's already figured out savings. Now we put some strategy to it by being specific. And so she's got the discipline part and she's going to win big because of what you just laid out because now she goes, oh, there's a strategy, not just saving in general, but saving specifically. Yeah. Here's what's weird.

A natural saver like her, someone who saves just because they love saving money. And certain people, my wife's that way. A natural saver like her will not keep up with a person who does intentional investing and labeling of the accounts. That's right. Even though they have a more natural strength in the area, they will not end up with as much money because they get their release from just having saved, even though they did it poorly.

Right. And so somebody pushed her to become an investor, not just a saver. Yeah. That's the difference. Saving is you're loaning money to the bank. Investing is you're becoming an owner of something. That's right. And that changes the whole equation when you do that.

Jason is in Salt Lake City. Hey, Jason, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Thank you. How are you guys doing? Better than we deserve. What's up? So my wife and I, we've been following the debt snowball program, and we've made it to where we just have our student loans and our mortgage.

And we're trying to decide if we should sell our house to pay off our student loans or if we should try and figure out a way to pay off our student loans with the interest and everything starting up. Man, that's sad. I'm sorry you're facing that. How much student loan debt have you got? $196,000. Ouch. Who's the doctor or the lawyer?

My wife is a speech pathologist, and I do physical therapy. Household income over $200,000 then? No, not right now. It's right around $120,000. My wife's working part-time. We have four children. And so I had three from a previous marriage, and we have one of our own as well. And for daycare for all of them, it's about $4,000 a month if we were to put them in daycare.

So she's working part-time, and I'm currently working full-time, and we're looking at maybe doing some other side hustle stuff here shortly. Best side hustle thing she could do is more speech pathology. It pays unbelievably good. It pays better than yours does as a side hustle. So, yeah, anything we can do to get her doing more of that, even if she's somehow working from home as individual clients or something while the kids are napping,

anything you can do like that to get your income up is going to be a good thing. Right. So the only reason I would sell your home is if I had lost hope that I could knock out the student loans in a reasonable period of time. How old are the kiddos? What's their age range? Their age is six months to eight years old. Okay.

So, I mean, you've got a long four years in front of you. Yes. I mean, when the youngest gets to kindergarten kindergarten she could kick it in a lot harder right right and uh until then you're going to be doing this on 100 to 150 a year with four kiddos little ones to boot um and you know if you did 50 000 a year for four years you you'd be done, right? Yes. But that'd be hard. With our interest rate starting back up, it's over $1,000 a month in interest on our first student loans. Yeah, that's true. One quick thing I want to challenge you. That's a whole $12,000 a year.

That's not going to be your problem. Your problem is getting enough cash flow to throw at this as fast as you can. Which, to that end, Jason, really quick challenge. My wife went back to work for a season. We had three kids. They needed some care. And if you're connected in your community, I'd be looking for an elderly grandmother who's still healthy and loves kids, who's just looking for some side money. You got to see how can we cut from $4,000 or almost $5,000 a month on daycare to maybe $1,200, $1,500. That's a way to allow your wife to work more and cut your costs.

Got to get crazy innovative right now. Yeah, you both took out expensive degrees in areas where you both have the ability to make north of $100,000, but it's going to obviously require working to do that. So you can clean up the mess, but it's going to be you got to get shovels. You got to get shovels, and that's what we're trying to help you figure out. I'm not trying to put her to work. I'm just trying to get out, get you out of debt without selling your house. I'd sell your house as a last resort to answer your question. And I don't think you're there yet. This is the Ramsey Show. Dave here. You can find all of our shows with the Ramsey Network app on your smartphone. It's the only place to listen to the entire back catalog of episodes.

Download the Ramsey Network app in your favorite app store today.