The Ramsey Show - App - Real Hope for Single Parents Who Are Starting Over (Hour 1)

Episode Date: June 6, 2018

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Dave Ramsey Show. Where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us. Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Thank you for being with us. Chris starts off this hour in Charlotte, North Carolina. Hi, Chris. How are you?

Hi, Dave. It's a great honor to talk to you. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. What's up? That's great. So I have a situation in our family. It's, I guess, a good situation to have. I guess there's good and bad to it. But we're debt-free, and we went through your Financial Peace University about 10 years ago

and working our way through the steps and are around in the five, six step range and doing really well. And we lost my wife's stepdad last year. And one of the things we heard advice you've given, which we took into heart, is to kind of sit on those inheritances for a while so you don't make any emotional decisions. And so we inherited about $600,000, which about doubled our net worth. And we're just wondering, some of it, here's the problem, not a problem,

but about more than half of it, about 350 of it, is in an inherited Roth IRA. And the rest of it is in pre-tax, like 403Bs and IRAs. And we're just wondering, one of the stepdad's desires was to help with kids' education, but these are technically retirement accounts. And you've said not to pull out of retirement accounts to pay for kids' education or a house. Well, you're not going to pull out of your retirement accounts.

I would pull out of an inherited account to do that. So you've got kids that are needing to go to college, and you need to pay for that? Yes, six of them. And you don't have the money unless you use some of this money? Correct, yeah. We don't have that fully funded otherwise. I would use some of this money. Correct, yeah. We don't have that fully funded otherwise. I would use some of this money for that then, okay? Do you owe on your home?

Okay, and what about that? Yeah, we have about $350, right about that same amount as that inherited Roth. We owe about that much on our home. Yeah, and I'd take that inherited Roth and pay it off then. Okay. And that makes you 100% debt-free, right? That would be 100%, yes, sir. And then kids' college, you can dink and dunk out of that.

When are the kids going to school? The oldest is 11, so all the way down to 9-month-old. Well, it might be that you just take the inherited Roth IRA, pay off the house, and with not having a house payment, you probably build up enough cash between now and the time the 11-year-old gets to school to pay cash for it. Yeah, yeah. You probably fund that out of your income. And then we have those inherited pre-tax dollars as well, which we have mandatory withdrawals on those. Yeah.

If you want to pull some of that. I mean, as you pull that out, you use it however you want. But the point is you are now managing a net worth of a million two at what age? I'm 47. Okay, and what's your household income? 150. Awesome, and you have no payments in the world in our scenario. No. Your house is now paid for, and you've got $150,000 coming in, and you, you know, you just start, you know, you move that money around as you need to or have to and you use some of that $150,000 to build up in the next seven years enough to pay cash for the kid to go to school. Yeah, you're in great shape. Wow.

What a wonderful legacy from her stepdad. Wow. Absolutely amazing. Well done. Wow. Fun, fun, fun. Hey, man, thank you for being a listener, and congratulations on where you guys are. Cheryl is with us in Houston.

Oh, by the way, hold on. I'm going to send you a copy of the book, The Legacy Journey, which is where you guys are. It's the only book I've written about wealth. All the other books I wrote were about money, and there is a difference. So Legacy Journey is on the way to you. Hold on. I'll have Kelly pick up and get it for you. Cheryl is with us.

Cheryl is in Houston, Texas. Hi, Cheryl. How are you? Hi, I'm good. Good. How can I help? Well, thank you for taking my call. Sure. I am 60 years old. I'll be retiring in about three months. Yay! Yes, I'm in baby step seven.

And my question is about long-term care. And I was talking to my financial guy about... Okay, I'm having trouble hearing you. And my question is about long-term care. And I was talking to my financial guy about... Okay, I'm having trouble hearing you. Can you speak directly into your phone, please? Okay, can you hear me? Yes, that's better. Thank you. Okay. I was talking to my financial guy about long-term care insurance.

And he was asking me, you know, are you sure you need it because being single... And I've heard you mention about, you know, Papa going in the nursing home and cracking, scrambling the nest egg. So I've never heard you say about single people. How much of a nest egg do you have built? Well, once I retire and add my luck to it, I'll have about $1.7 million. You don't need it? I don't? No. Oh, okay. No. Because it's not going to cover but about $1.7 million. You don't need it. I don't? No.

Oh, okay. No, because it's not going to cover but about $300,000 worth anyway. And so by not taking it, you're self-insuring through $300,000, which means you've lowered your inheritance that you're leaving to someone by $300,000 from $1.7 million. And worst-case scenario, let's double that and say you only left them $1 million. Well, wah. You took care of yourself, and you're in great shape.

How did you do that? What do you do for a living? I've been like an accountant and now accounting supervisor for an oil company for the last 27 years. Okay. And you're single? Yes. I was a single mom for about the last 16 or 17 years. Wow.

And just... And what was your income while you were building up this $1.7 million? Well, I went through a divorce in my mid-40s. At that time, it was about $50,000. So, you know, my income was greatly reduced. How much wealth did you get out of the divorce? Oh, none. I mean, at the time, I think we both had $100,000 in our 401K.

So where did $1.7 million come from? Just savings. Well, I make $134,000 now. Yeah, and you put a healthy chunk in your retirement account. I did. And, of course, my lump sum, when I did it, was worth $ at 900 000 yeah so i've got about 800 000 saved myself and then but you know i met met you said it's on your plan about oh 10 11 years ago and did what you said and got my house paid off and just you know lived on less than i made and and it worked. You're a rock star.

Single mom making $50,000 to $134,000 after the divorce starts with almost nothing and now has a million seven at 60 years old. I am so impressed. Well, thank you. That is a great story. You did so well. I'm so proud of you. Wow.

What a wonderful deal. If you're out there a single mom, you're starving to death and scared to death, that lady right there, she's your idol now. I mean, you need to just get a picture of her. We don't have one. But you need to just get a picture of her and put it on your phone, right, so you can just see it every day and go, that's who I want to be when I grow up right there.

Wow. Unbelievable. Now, don't tell me it doesn't work, people. Don't tell me you can't. Dave Ramsey doesn't know anything about building wealth. He'll just get you out of debt. Me and seven, you know, I'm pretty much horrible at helping you build wealth. Pretty much can't show you how to do that.

I don't know how you guys are going to get by listening to me. You need to go see a financial advisor who has a net worth of $4. They'll help you. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. For years, I refused to endorse any company that claimed to get people out of timeshares. I told my listeners it's a horrible product and that, unfortunately, they didn't have a lot of options. Then a few years ago, I sat down with Brandon Reed, the owner of Timeshare Exit Team. Brandon walked me through the timeshare industry,

and I learned that you can't sell them, and you can't even give them away. And then we talked about Timeshare Exit Team's process. Every ownership situation is different, which is why they have more solutions than any other company. And that's when they earned my respect. Don't call any of the imposters out there, and there's a lot. The only timeshare exit company I stand behind is Timeshare Exit Team. They have exited thousands from their timeshare burden this year alone. Yes, you will write them

a check, but they stand behind their guarantee. They will get you out or they'll give you a full refund. Call 844-999-EXIT. Online at timeshareexitteam.com. So a few years ago, my daughter Rachel Cruz and I started doing a column in a magazine called Woman's Day. You may have heard of it. And over the many years that that column has existed rachel i think does it primarily now um we've gotten to spend time with the woman's day team many times as we were in new york and hanging out with them and uh also have become friends with the editor-in-chief of woman's day

susan spencer and um you know we we are blessed and we get to meet people like that when we're out running around. And a lot of you have perceptions of someone who runs something. I mean, Wednesday's 20 million women read that. OK, 20 million. Just think about that. person that would running that and sitting in in new york city in a tower wouldn't you know some of you have perceptions of them being some kind of a hard driving jerk or something and i'm sure those people exist but i don't run into them very often i generally find leaders in top organizations like that that are top flight leaders are um very strong unbelievably smart and competent, but also unbelievably kind and just good people.

And Susan is our friend and the editor-in-chief of Woman's Day. She's on the line with me because she's done a new book that is absolutely incredible, and I wanted her to tell you a little bit about it. Hey, Susan, how are you? Hi, Dave. Wow, that was the most lovely introduction I've ever gotten. Thank you so much. Thank you. Well, we love you, that was the most lovely introduction I've ever gotten. Thank you so much. Thank you. Well, we love you.

That was wonderful. We thank you and love you for the relationship, but also just have gotten to know you and we consider you a friend. So when action follows heart, 365 ways to share kindness. And I opened it up, and I wrote a little blog this week about wag more, bark less. And it kind of reminded me of that. There's just a little one thing per day with the day and the date on it. January the 16th, collect extra cell phone chargers and donate them to a local hospital.

The people visiting loved ones can focus on the patient, not on battery life. I mean, something nice to do, something kind to do on every single day of the year, 365 days. It's a great idea. What made you do this? What inspired you to write these out? And they're really good little, they're great ideas. I think they are, too.

You know, I'll tell you who inspired us, and it was really the readers of Woman's Day. A couple years ago, we started getting a lot of reader mail, and people would be telling us stories about some of the good deeds that they'd done with their friends and their family and their communities. And we thought, huh, well, you know, obviously there's a lot of kind people out there, so why don't we gather these stories into the magazine and start a column? So we did. We called it the Kindness Project.

And we kind of gave it, you know, about a month or so, a couple months to see how it took off. And it took off. It had become one of the most popular columns in the magazine, and there's quite a waiting list to get into it also. Readers are constantly sending us stories. So that was the inspiration for the book. And then we went out and we talked to a into it also. Readers are constantly sending us stories. So that was the inspiration for the book. And then we went out and we talked to a lot of people. We had a lot of fun, and I had

a lot of fun sort of seeking out kindness in lots of different places, not just our readers. And it all kind of came together in this book. And it's, it's been such a, a wonderful heartwarming affirming project. Um, and I think the, I call this, this book, a little book of optimism. It is.

I mean, February, February 3rd, I held the door open for two elderly ladies at the local bakery. As I started to enter after them, they stopped me and said, your mother did a good job with you. Right.

I smiled and said, yes, ma'am, she did. Yes, ma'am, she did. Yeah, and you want to hear that sometimes. Yeah, absolutely. Mom wanted to hear that. Exactly. It's never too late. Fun.

July 1, set up a sign that says stop and chat and a couple of chairs on your street corner of your local park for anyone who might want to take a break on a busy day. Now, that requires a special kind of person to do that one. I'll tell you, that's fun because you have no idea what you're going to get out of that. Exactly. I mean, I think some of the ideas do require a special kind of person, but some of the ideas are also really uncomplicated and simple.

And I really wanted to almost make kindness something that's almost automatic. I mean, the idea here is that we want kindness to be a reflex. We don't want you to have to go sit down and think, okay, what's the kind thing I'm going to do today? We want you to draw inspiration from the book and start just doing these things in your community, in your family, with your friends, so that it becomes, as I said, a reflex.

So it's not something that's, you know, hard. So Amazon, Barnes & Noble, etc., you can get it. It's called When Action Follows Heart, 365 Ways to Share Kindness, One Kindness Idea a Day by Susan Spencer, the editor-in-chief of Women's Day. So what are some of your favorites in here? Oh, it's like asking me who my favorite child is. One of my favorites is the story of a woman who had a friend who had cancer. And she started, you know, making meals for her friend.

And in the meantime, her friend, who is an accomplished quilter, was making a quilt for this woman who was expecting her, who was about to become a great grandmother for the first time. And gave her this quilt before she passed. It was the last quilt that she made. And I love that idea of two people kind of almost exchanging kindnesses, right? I mean, where they were both really invested in each other, and I just love that story. You know, and other than that, you know, there's tons of things. One of my favorites comes from a woman who I work with who saw a woman who was struggling to parallel park. So she knocked on the window and said, can I help you? And the woman let her parallel park her car.

I think that's just lovely because I struggle with parallel parking myself. I'm sure many of us do. So there's that. And then there's another story that we actually did an entire piece on this in Women's Day about a woman in Detroit, an elderly woman, I believe she's in her late 80s, who has an abundant garden and vegetable garden. And what she does is she lives alone. She harvests the vegetables in the late summer and the fall,

and she leaves them out on her front porch for anybody to come and take. And I love that, that she's helping her community, but she's also doing something that she loves. Because kindness isn't always just about, you know, pushing outward. It's also being kind to yourself and being sort of present in the world. And I think that woman really demonstrates that. With this show, with some 16 million folks interacting with us on a daily basis, and with Women's Day, 20 million folks interacting with you guys, I don't know whether I'm getting old or disgusted

or whether I'm actually observing something. I'm getting the sense in our social media interactions and our interactions with people that they are sick and tired. They're fatigued with the conflict of the news channels. And they're fatigued with the conflict of the polarization. And they're fatigued with the trolls on social media. People are just sick of it. And there seems to be a civility movement that is swelling up.

We're going to be civil to each other. I'm tired of all the anger. I agree with you, Dave. I think that people in general are yearning right now for connection, and they're yearning for relationship. And I think that kindness is a way that people can come together in very small and human ways. And even in these very small moments when you're giving of yourself, it can have a powerful impact. And it can have a powerful impact on you and the people who are involved in your act of kindness.

And I think that civility, and it is lacking right now, and I think that this is a pathway to civility. It's a pathway to empathy, and I can't think of anything we need more in the world right now than civility and empathy. I sense it's swelling up. I really do. Good, yeah. I think there is a fatigue with the other and i and i think people the reaction is people

are going you know what i've had enough i'm just not gonna act that way anymore and i'm not gonna put up with people that act that way anymore and i'm just not gonna be around them i'm not gonna engage them um i'm blocking them by the tens of thousands on twitter i'm just not gonna put up with their language and i'm not gonna put up with their what they're trolling and i'll just block them and you can just block them. And you can't block me. Yeah, I can. It's my Twitter.

You can do whatever you want with yours, you know. So that's my act of kindness for the day. I think that sounds good. When action follows heart, the book is 365 Ways to Share Kindness, a kind idea for the day. You want to be part of this civility movement I'm talking about, this would be a good book to add to your library. Susan Spencer, the editor-in-chief of Women's Day. Thank you, my friend, for being with us and congrats on the day. If you want to be part of this civility movement I'm talking about, this would be a good book to add to your library. Susan Spencer, the editor-in-chief of Women's Day. Thank you, my friend, for being with us, and congrats on the book.

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sponsor of Dave Ramsey Live Events. chministries.org. Thank you for joining us, America. Spencer and Lisa are with us in El Paso. Hey, guys, how are you? Hi, Dave. Doing great, Dave. Cool. I see on my screen you're debt-free. Congratulations.

Yeah, we're excited. Fun, fun. So how much have you paid off? We paid off $135,000. Say it again. $135,000. $135,000. And how long did that take?

Two years, eight months. All right, cool. And your range of income during that time? We were kind of all over, but from $65,000 to about $130,000. Wow. What do you guys do for a living? So I'm in corporate finance. And I am a stay-at-home homeschooling mom. Very cool. Fun, fun. What kind of debt was this? $135,000.

Yes, take your time saying it. It's a big number. So it was a little bit of everything, about half was student loans, a bunch of credit card, car, and some medical. So we were normal. You were normal, had a little bit of everything, the credit cards, the student loans, the cars. You're like an American.

I know. It's troubling. That's right. Well, you wouldn't want to be a communist right so now now you're weird way to go you guys way to go so what happened 2.8 years ago two years and eight months ago that caused this uh unbelievable explosion in your life you bet so even uh before that two two years eight months is when we got serious. But a year and a half or so before that is when we got introduced to the Total Money Makeover. I had bought an e-reader, most likely on credit, and it came with a couple books included. And one of them was Total Money Makeover.

That's kind of oxymoronic. Okay. Yeah, isn't it? So I kind of plowed through that in a day or two and then walked up to Lisa and said, hey, I think this is something that could make a big difference, but we need to be on the same page, and I know we can do it, and turned it over to her to read, and kind of off we went. And then we had a couple of moves and a couple of job changes, some fits and starts, until we really hunkered down and started about two years, eight months ago with job changes that brought us pay cut down to the 65.

So that's where the pressure was on. Okay, so the pressure was on caused you to hunker down. That's right. It's time to get serious now. If we're ever going to do this, now's the time. Yeah, no more playing around. Yeah, and then over that two years and eight months your income basically doubled yeah that's right that's pretty incredible how did that happen how'd you get your income up that far well it was just getting back on track

so i i'm graduated with an mba that's where some of that student loan info came from um and with some family moves it was just kind of taken taking what you could get for a little bit, some family needs behind those moves. And then, you know, the Lord just really blessed us to get us back on track where we are today. Perfect. Very fun. What do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is? Oh, my goodness, I'll tell you. So definitely sitting down together and doing a budget.

I mean, we had been married, you know, over 10 years at that point, and we just really never had budgeted. And Spencer's the nerd, I'm the free spirit, and he'd pretty much be like, do not go to Target again. And so he said, oh, no, okay, let's stop. Let's figure this out. And so really for me it was definitely the envelope. That's been such a blessing for our family because it

gave me the control. At first, I thought, oh, this is kind of controlling these envelope systems, but really, it gave me the control. And then the podcasts, they were huge. Like, the scriptures that Chris Brown would encourage us with and all of the Dave Ramsey personalities really helped our family so much. Rachel Cruz helped us. I mean, our kids have been putting money and savings this whole journey, and it's just been great. So the podcast definitely in the budget. Wow.

And what about you, Spencer? What do you say caused you to get out of debt? For me, it was trusting the process. You know, I had to realize that I was the dummy that got myself into the mess, and I couldn't trust my own logic to get out. So trust the people that are involved and trust the process, and it will get you there. What caused you to be able to do that, to trust the process? I think it was just being humble.

Like, you get beat down. Like I said, the job changes and the pay cuts, and it's like, okay, I need to take care of my family. I just wasn't doing a good job of that. Like I said, the job changes and the pay cuts, and it's like, okay, I need to take care of my family. I just wasn't doing a good job of that. Well, and you're trained like I'm trained, formally in business, academically, with your MBA. And the funny thing is, you take lots of finance classes, lots of accounting classes, and not one of them has anything to do with the stuff we talk about here on the air. Yeah. Yeah, I could whip the budget into shape for the corporation, but for myself absolutely you look at a case study and go this is what's

wrong with this company but you turn around look in your own mirror and you're like i don't know what to do you know that's where that's where i found myself i had all these letters and licenses after my name there i sat bankrupt you know and it's just ridiculous and so it's an interesting world that we find ourselves in well Well, you guys are heroes. I'm proud of you. Well done. Very, very well done. We've got a copy of Chris Hogan's Retire Inspired book for you,

number one best-selling book. And that's the next chapter in your story to be millionaires and outrageously generous as you go along. Got it? That's where we're headed. Thank you, Dave. You are headed there. No doubt about it. I'm proud of y'all.

Alright, Spencer and Lisa El Paso, Texas. $135,000 paid off in two years and eight months, making $65,000 to $130,000. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream.

Three, two, one. We're going to win! Well done, you guys. Very, very, very well done. I love it. Congratulations. That is how it happens.

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If you're not a text meister, it'd be okay either way. I can promise you that. Robin is on Twitter. My financial advisor suggested refinancing my mortgage at a 30-year loan and putting what you save in your 401K. What's your opinion? I think you need a new financial advisor. Your financial advisor is advising you to keep your mortgage the rest of your life.

I think that's just bloody stupid. Why? Because I've studied thousands, tens of thousands of millionaires over the last 30 years. All the data among the millionaires tells us they get their home paid off. It's one of the key things that causes them to become millionaires. Because when you don't have a house payment even, I mean, no payments in the world, but not even a house payment, you know how fast you can put money in investments? How generous you can be?

I mean, you can do, I think about, what if, just breathe, just think about the math for a second, or just try to emotionally swallow this. What if you had no payments? Makes you dizzy. I mean, you know what a house payment of $2,000 a month, $1,500 a month house payment turns into? Millions and millions and millions of dollars. And yet this goob wants you to borrow on your house for 30 more years

so he can sell you an investment. You're fired. Don't use a goob for a financial advisor. It's a bad idea. Get a new one. You want to get somebody to help you with your investments, go to smartvestor at DaveRamsey.com. It'll drop down a list of the SmartVestor pros in your area we recommend. And none of them are goobs.

We do due diligence to do goob removal. We really do. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. None of them are goops. We do due diligence to do goop removal. We really do. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Folks, the real estate market is on fire all over the country. If you're looking to buy a home and you need a mortgage, don't sell yourself short by going and getting a typical pre-approval. That's a false sense of security, and it's just not good enough in today's fast-moving market. Instead, call Churchill Mortgage and get their certified home buyer program. I'm telling

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We're glad you are here. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. It's a different kind of talk radio. It's a talk radio where you actually get to talk. Oh, think about it. It'll come to you. Andrew is with us in Charlotte, North Carolina. Hi, Andrew. How are you? I'm doing well, Dave. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. What's up? I just had a question. I wanted to ask you, I'm currently a graduate student, and I'm trying to learn to follow the baby steps, and I'm learning with graduate school,

I'm trying to learn how to, what should I prioritize between graduate school, my previous debt, retirement, and then just having fun. Okay. Retirement's not on the table until you're debt-free. Don't worry about that. That's what we call baby step four. Fun has somehow been mislabeled that it has to cost money. I've heard of people having fun without spending money. I'm not sure why fun has to cost. that's an illusion sold to you by someone so yeah do you spend some money on fun uh sure sure absolutely a reasonable amount but let's just use an example let's pretend that you spend so much money on fun that you can't

pay for graduate school and you build up a bunch of student loan debt which effectively means you borrowed money on student loans to have fun. Yeah. That would not be wise, right? Right. So, I mean, we're not going to say, no, there's no fun, but being in student loan debt's no fun either, so we don't want that. So, can you pay cash for graduate school and just finish as goal one? I can, yeah.

Okay. Let's do that. That's goal one. I can, yeah. Okay. Let's do that. That's goal one. And if we don't pay off any debt and we don't start retirement, goal one is go no further in debt. Because the first step of getting out of debt is to stop borrowing more. That's step one. So let's start with that one. And then let's sprinkle a little fun on right after that.

A little fun. Not trips to Europe, okay, while you have debt. And then if you, you know, how much money do you need to finish grad school? Probably about $25,000. Okay, and what is your sources of income right now? Are you working? Yeah, I work basically three jobs. Yeah, I'll pay for grad school. So $25,000, and you'll graduate when?

2020. May? I think the summer of 2020. 24 months, then? Yeah. Okay, and so you need $25,000 in 24 months, give or take. Correct. All right. Correct. And what are you making a year? I make about $25,000 in 24 months, give or take. Correct. All right.

Correct. And what are you making a year? I make about $38,000. Okay. And so can you cash flow this? Have you got another source of money without borrowing it? Yeah, I can cash flow it. Okay.

All right. And what are you studying? Mental health counseling. Okay. So you're going to get a master's in counseling. Correct. And then you'll sit for your boards and you're going into the counseling industry, counseling world. Correct.

Okay. Good. Good for you. All right. And how much debt do you have already? About 18K. Is that student loans only? Yeah, that's student loans.

Okay. And they don't activate until you graduate? Correct. Okay, so we're just going to let them sit. Good. Okay. So goal one is graduate debt-free. Until you have $25,000 cash sitting in your savings account,

I would do only inexpensive fun, and I would pay nothing on debt and save nothing for the future. Because job one is add no more debt, and that's graduate debt-free. Now, let's pretend something weird happened, and you had $25,000 in the bank by January. That's not going to happen unless something in this story changes. But if it did, let's just say that happened this coming January. So you got 18 months, and you got the money already done, right? Right.

Then you can increase your fund budget a little bit, right? And then you could even start thinking about maybe paying off the $18,000. Right. Right, and as soon as that's done, then we're going to build an emergency fund, and then we're going to move on into retirement savings. You're going to do your retirement savings after you graduate, probably, which is fine. Fine, just start putting 15% of your income away and you're debt-free when you graduate. That'd be a great goal.

But goal one, stick with that goal no matter what it takes, no matter what you have to do that is legal and moral. Borrow no more money and graduate with no more harm. You can't get out of a hole while you're digging out the bottom. Step one to paying off debt is not borrow any more. That is a big step for a lot of people. That's why we tell you to get up your credit cards. Time for a plasticectomy. Plastic surgery is in your

life. That kind of stuff, right? So that's what we're doing. So good job, man. Good job. Stay on it. Finish it up. Finish that degree because that's going to be a good field. It'll be a rewarding field for you. Marianne is in Jackson, Michigan. Hi, Marianne. How are you? Hi, Dave.

Better than I deserve. Thank you for taking my call. Certainly. How can I help? Quick question. My mom has been not very responsible with money. She's had a lot of secret credit cards and secret ways from my dad. While I was a child, she had access to my bank account.

I'm having trouble hearing you on your phone. Can you stand still and speak directly into it, please? Okay. Can you hear me better now? Yes, ma'am. Thank you. Okay. All right. So as a child, my mom had access to my bank account several times. My savings account would go to zero because she would just borrow money from it,

well, take money out of it. My sister has a cognitive disability and has just been approved for some security income. And I am worried that my mom is not going to be responsible with that money. So your mother is responsible for your sister? Yes, she still lives at home. Okay. All right. And your question is what? My question is my husband and I eventually will probably be the payees for this situation,

like when my mom can't make decisions anymore. But I'm wondering if there's any way that I can, like, talk to my mom and get something set up where... Where what? I'm the payee off the bat or something i just don't want um yeah that the only way that that would happen would be if um your mother or whoever the guardian is would approve that okay and if she approves it you can designate the pay you can designate the payee to be whoever you want um but everybody that's involved has to agree. Right.

And your sister's not in the equation because a cognitive disability means she does not make decisions. As of yet, she does not. Yeah, she's legally not able to make the decision on the payee. So your mother and father are in the driver's seat as her caregiver, and unless they relinquish that to you voluntarily there's nothing you can do okay um unless you went in and did an extremely violent court battle and declared your parents your parents to be completely incompetent and to be a thief and everything else and the and then the judge would just remove them as her caregiver

and remove them from her effective power of attorney. You can check an attorney, but that's what they'll tell you in this situation. Okay. So it's a matter of there's really no middle ground, a violent court action, which I really would not recommend. Yeah. I mean, your mother's not a very likable character in this story so far, but she's not to the point that I'm ready to violently remove her by court action. By violently, I don't

mean physical violence. I mean, the legal process is visceral. And so, you know, ask an attorney, get some advice on that. But that's my understanding of what you're facing. And you decide what you're going to do. So really, if you're not going to go that route, which you're probably not, then the only thing left to you, the only possible thing left to you is talk to your dad and say, you know, mom's pretty much stolen everything over the years. She doesn't mean to be a thief. But effectively, that's what she's done because she's so freaking out of control. Dad, you have to agree with that statement. Yes, daughter, I know. I know about your mom. Okay, then you guys sign over the payee, and you take care of my sister, and we'll manage her money so mom doesn't steal it.

And if you can persuade dad, your mom's not going to like it, but if you can persuade dad to get his wife to do this, then that's going to be the best thing for your sister based on the story you told me. Because your mother is going to steal this money. A hundred percent, she's going to steal this money. You can count on it. I'm sorry, but that's her track record.

If you steal your eight-year-old savings account, it pretty well makes you scum, okay? You can count on it. I'm sorry, but that's our track record. If you steal your eight-year-old savings account, it pretty well makes you scum, okay? This is The Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, guys, this is James Childs, producer of The Dave Ramsey Show. I'm excited to announce that we're now carrying on 600 radio stations across the country. To find one near you, head to DaveRamsey.com slash show. For years, I've been telling you to get Zander's ID Theft Protection Plan because it covers all types of ID theft. But if you've never been a victim, you have no idea the nightmare you could experience.

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