The Ramsey Show - App - Redefine Your New Normal (Hour 2)

Episode Date: October 9, 2020

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🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studio, this is the Dave Ramsey Show, where America hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money. I'm Chris Hogan, and hosting along with me this hour is Dr. John Deloney, and we are pumped and excited to be able to have the time to hang out and talk to you. So here's what we want you to do. We want you to pick up the phone. Call us, 888-825-5225. You can find us at Ramsey Show.

You can find John on social media, at John Deloney. You can find me at Chris Hogan 360. And we're excited to talk to you. As always, we have some outstanding people out here in the lobby. We're very excited to see real people hanging out with us. And we've got a couple out here that's on their baby moon. So John and I have learned something new. It's where you begin to take a trip for the baby cums.

And really, to be honest, they shouldn't be going anywhere. Okay, they should go home and go night-night and sleep. Just store up on sleep for this baby c comes and wrecks all the things happening. We're excited for them. It's going to be awesome. If you're near the area, come out. Hang out with us. You can check out Baker Street Cafe. Miss Melissa Wilson will take care of you

over there, but you also get a chance to walk through. Get the background and history on our company and begin to see where we've come from. At the same time, pick up the new best-selling books that we have over in the bookstore to be able to help guide you in your life as well as with your money. All right, John, you've been bumping into some articles, and I know you. You're always doing research.

What have you found? There's a new article out in Forbes that says, survey reveals 80% of workers would quit their job for this one thing. Ooh. 80% of workers would consider quitting their current position for a job that focused more on employees' mental health. Hmm. If my boss, says some of these folks, would just ask me how I'm doing, would they give me permission to log off at night? Because now that we're working at home, we't have these natural these natural separation moments right um now that folks have

been worried for six months we ran on adrenaline right for a long time now that folks are still worried am i gonna have a job am i not people are hiring again is it slowing down it's getting faster we've got this i don't know if you've heard um this is kind of an underground thing but we have this uh presidential election coming that's added some stress to people's lives just a little bit and so folks are they're realizing hey this is not going to be a two-week wait till the the curve flattens this is going to be the for the foreseeable future right and it's getting harder and harder and harder just to deal with it and so um i want to encourage supervisors bosses supervisors, bosses, this is a touchy-feely thing, right? Caring about your employees, but it's bigger than that. This has an ROI to it.

If you take care of folks at home, if you check in with them, see how they're doing, if you make sure you're encouraging them to take time off, if you go in at five o'clock, six o'clock and see who's still logged in and you text them and say, hey, get off for today, go for a walk, Go enjoy some stuff. Get out of here and encourage your folks to take care of themselves. They're going to want to stick around longer. They're going to be more productive in the long run. And really, they're going to have lower anxiety, lower stress in their daily lives, which is going to make them better employees. Yeah. I think as leaders, we are about to embark on one of our largest leadership

conferences, Entree Leadership Master Series, where we are growing business owners and leaders all across the country. But it is imperative for leaders to check in on their people. And that means, you know, we've got technology at our fingertips for the sake of business. You have it at your fingertips for the sake of your team. And that means even if you FaceTime, Skype, look at your people, see in their eyes. I've had so many people tell me I'm doing fine or I'm doing okay. And their eyes tell me something different. And I know as a leader, I need to follow back up with so-and-so or really see what's happening.

And so I want you to care enough to show up and to care about your team. We've got to get through this. And the best way to do it is sticking together. Here's something that I want every leader to hear, every business owner, every middle manager, upper management, lower management. I took a call from a woman the other day asking, she was struggling with her five-year-old during this transition, and she said, I used to have a happy-go-lucky five-year-old, and now she's not. She's dealt with the stress of me and my husband. This has been a hard six six months how do i help her get back to be the happy go lucky kid she was and i told her you're not gonna like this but that season's over we have we have an after now there was a before

when everyone was running around and we were chasing busy and more and we could really squash our employees and and get blood out of that turnip, we're in a different world now. And so it's going to require different leadership. It's going to require people who lean in, even if it's uncomfortable, even if you don't know how, ask your employees how they're doing. Encourage them to take care of themselves. Let's let an evening go by where folks can get some sleep, where they log off, and you're going to get the hours back the next day or the next day, right? But be proactive about taking care of your people. It will help your business in the long run. It will help you in the long run.

But it's the right thing to do. It's the right thing to do, Chris. No, you're absolutely right. New leadership for new times. Well, people often ask me about return on investment, ROI. I'll take it a step further. I think there's a return on involvement for leaders. I think there's a return on involvement for leaders. I think there's a return on inclusion, meaning including people, finding out what's happening in their lives and connection.

And so it is a soft skill. It is a thing that people think there's, well, you know, that's going to take time. It sure is. But listen, do you want to care about the people that you have on your team or do you want to train some new ones? I mean, that's really what it boils down to. And so when you care enough to get connected, you're actually invested in their lives, and you want to check on them. And so be intentional. That's shocking to me.

It is. It's high. 80% would quit their jobs for something that focused a little bit more on mental health. Now I want to flip it on them. Okay. You've got a responsibility to take care of yourself, workers, across the country. Ah, not waiting on. You've got to log off.

You've got to have boundaries. Even if you're stuck at home, make sure you're going for walks. Make sure you're connecting with people. And you make sure you define your workday the best that you can. It's easy to just sit on the couch at 6 o'clock, 7 o'clock, 8 o'clock, eat on the couch, keep working until 9, 10, 11 o'clock. You're going to make yourself nuts. You're going to slowly grind yourself down to a nub. You've got a responsibility to own your mental health, too.

It's easy to blame our bosses, and there are bosses across the country that deserve blame, but we have to take care of our mental health, too. No, I agree with you. And so if you're out there and this has struck a nerve and you start to go, man, I'm in leadership and I need help, or I want to make sure I'm starting to do these things better. Go over to EntreeLeadership.com. Entree Leadership is the brand and kind of the process of how this company has grown from a card table in Dave's living room now to over a thousand team members. And so again, EntreeLeadership.com, where you can begin to learn more about leadership, more about being a business owner, get connected and learning more about not doing leadership alone. Leadership can be a very lonely thing if you're not connected

and you don't have other like-minded people. Remember, as John Maxwell calls it, the leadership lid. We have to be open to new information so we can get poured into. So now we have the ability to be able to pour into other people. And that's part of that growing and mentoring and coaching people as we grow. So again, go over to EntreeLeadership.com. As I said, we've got our big event happening, Entree Leadership Master Series, that is going to be kicking off next week. And Dave and myself and you and Ken Coleman will be training and teaching leaders. And it is a blast.

As I tell people, it's like getting a master's or a Ph.D. in leadership. And it's stuff that you can really apply, not just theory. This is stuff that really impacts people's lives as well as their businesses. Stay tuned. We're coming back, people. This is The Dave really impacts people's lives as well as their businesses. Stay tuned. We're coming back, people. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. families all over the country are discovering a faith-based and budget-friendly way of meeting health care costs whether they're anticipated or completely unexpected. For example, take the Olcheski family from LaGrange, Texas. Jeff and Carice had just celebrated the birth of a new baby boy. Shortly after, they had another expensive medical issue come up.

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All right, we're getting to the phone lines. We've got Ken is on the line. Ken from Los Angeles, California. How can we help you? Hey, what's up, guys? Hey, buddy. How are you? I'm doing well.

Doing well. Long-time listener. I shouldn't say listener. I should say I hear the show. I don't listen to the show. But I got a question regarding my business. Can you guys hear me okay? We sure can, buddy.

Okay. I have a business and I ran it for a long time, like 13 years. And I had a competitor come to me and wanted to buy the business. This was right before that coronavirus hit. And I'm having a hard time. So, you know, this business is basically, you know, I started it when I was 23, 36 now, so it's about 13 years. Did you sell it? Did you sell it? Well, this is the thing.

That's the problem is that we were right there, you know, about to sell it. And the deal didn't go through because of, you know, coronavirus and everything else. And nobody's buying anything. And, you know, I used to buy companies, too, in the past before all this. And I don't think it's going to be selling anytime soon. So I'm having a hard time. You know, you go to bed at night thinking, you know, you're going to get all your debt paid off and all this stuff with this business closing. And so I'm having a hard time, like, plugging back in and working. And, you know, my employees and, you know, everybody's looking to me for answers.

And I really don't have the answers because I had one foot out the door. That's exactly right. That's right. Tell me this. What kind of business is it? It's a security business. We do alarms. Okay, so you said you had one foot out the door. What was the sales price you all had negotiated? It was going to be $1.8 million, and I was going to work for them for three years for $200,000.

Gotcha. So you're absolutely right. You had one foot and another half foot out the door. You'd already spent into your two of that money, hadn't you? Well, I mean, at night, you think about it. Yeah. I'm not hating on you, man. I would have spent that money in my head, too. That's right. No, that's factual.

And so how many team members do you have right now, Ken? Five. Got five. Okay, so here's the reality. You got to get your mojo back. Yeah, you have to because here's the reality. Obviously, number one, you had done something well enough to make the company attractive for potential buyers. So you went from quarters to suitors to now potential buyers.

And, of course, the COVID thing hit and caused it. So you know what to do. You know how to run this thing. So now it's just a matter of dusting it off again and going, you know what? Yeah, but I just hate, honestly, I hate it, though. Yeah. I've already. You hate the business or the idea?

Yeah, I'm just. Yeah. I'm just, I'm having a hard time hard time you know running a business is a lot of work it is and i was so one foot off the door it's like that vacation you can't take i just i thought i was done so hey ken here's what i want to come back and oh it's brutal here's what i want you to do ken i want you um you married you got? You got somebody in your life that loves you, you can be honest with? Yeah, I'm married. I got three kids.

I just got a new baby, and she's going to be one this year. Wow, okay. So did your employees know about this sale? No, obviously. I can't tell them about it. They had no idea. Okay. So I want you to do a couple of things.

I want you to get with your wife, and I want you all to step back and look at not the business. Because my guess is this. My guess is you're tired. Security business is a hard business. It's a lot. And then, man, that kind of money with that kind of security three years into the future, that's a bomb. That solves a lot of anxieties in our life, right? And you're about to be debt- free. You're about to have a great

salary for a few years. You're going to sit back and coast with this new baby, with all your kids and all that. And then all of a sudden it's gone. So all that's getting dumped into I hate my job. I hate going there because your job is the epicenter of this hurt right now, right? You're looking at it every day, every

day. And every time Billy doesn't show up for a stupid shift, you get angrier and it just is welling up in you so i want you and your wife i knew it man see yes and so i want you and your wife to step back and go back to january of 2020 i want you to write down all of the things that have been awesome that have happened and all the things that have absolutely sucked and here's's what I want you to do. I want y'all to have, and you're going to laugh at me and you're going to say, this is a stupid dude. I want you to trust me on this. I want you and your wife to hold a miniature funeral for the money you're not going to spend. I want you to hold a funeral for the sale that happened. I want y'all to have some sort of

ceremony in your house. I like that. Well, you're going to mark it because here's what happens. When you start spending stuff, your brain felt safe and then they took it away. And your brain experienced it as a loss

even though it wasn't a loss. And so now it's sounding all the alarms that you're broke, you're stuck, you hate, and then idiot doesn't show up for work today.

And so every alarm you've got is going off. And if you have a ceremony, if you've got a, put a period at the end of that sentence, you'll be able to exhale. And then I want the second or the third thing, I'm sorry, I want you and your wife to do, is I want y'all to create what is the next two years going to look like. And you look at her and say, honey, I got to get out of this business. I've got a one-year-old. I've got a baby. I've got a couple of kids.

So today's not that day. But now you can start building towards an exit strategy. And it might not be the $1.8 million sale, but it might be that you find yourself another $200,000 job or another $100,000 job. You're a smart guy, obviously. You're a builder. But you're going to find that proactively somewhere else. But until you honor and close this sucker down in your heart and mind, it's going to keep burning a hole through you. Okay? Would you trust me on that? Trying to get up in the morning. Yeah, it's just hard to keep pushing. It is.

It's weighing you down. On a job. I feel like a rug got pulled out from under me. Hey, hey, hey. It was a big deal. It was hard. It did. A rug got pulled out from under you.

This business is a part of me. Yep. And for me to make that decision, I have so much anxiety if I should even sell it or not sell it. That was the biggest decision I ever made. I make the decision to sell it and then it doesn't get done. And that's what...

Listen to yourself, brother. You are still apologizing to yourself for having feelings about it. This sucks. It hurts. And you're not giving yourself permission to feel it. You got to have some sort of sit down with your wife and you're going to write it down and say, we were going to have a million and a half dollars.

We were going to have 200 grand. And I was going to be able to spend weekends with my kid and I have to fill in with some idiot didn't call in. Didn't show up. And it did. It didn't feel like the rug got pulled out. The rug did did get pulled out and you've got to sit down and honor that and here's the sucky part brother your wife's absorbing a lot of this your kids are absorbing a lot of this kids are home she's just we're fighting it's rough they're absorbing all of it and so what you

have to do as the adult in that house is you've got to say, hey, I hurt. This is not good. It was going to be awesome. And it's not anymore. And then we're going to own it. That's right. Then we're going to own it. That's right.

And that's redefining this new normal. Because I'm going to tell you something. You have built this thing. You are not this business. No, you're a dad. You're a husband. You are a dad. You're a husband. You are an individual. You're a leader.

With dreams. And I think you getting yourself dusted back off, the quickest way to get back toward that dream is for you to keep leading this business in that direction, but you got to get your mojo back. I'm going to take it a step further. You need to get some real men in your life that you can be upfront and honest with. Obviously, I want you to talk to your spouse.

But I want you to kind of shake this thing off and look and go, the fastest exit is back on this ramp, moving this business in the direction to sell it to be able to move forward. And so what you do, you start re-dreaming again. You start shaking it off and looking at it and getting excited for the sake of your family. And you can do this, my friend. You got it, Ken. Stay focused. You're not finished.

This is The Dave Ramsey Show. I'm Chris Hogan, and hosting along with me this hour is Dr. John Deloney. And we're taking your calls on your life and your money, your relationships, the things that are on your mind. Just know you can pick up the phone and call us, 888-825-5225. We are ready to take your call. Again, that's 888-825-5225. We are here. Now, right now, I want to ask you something. What if you never had

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That's DaveRamsey.com slash FPU. Also, I don't know if I'm supposed to say this or not, but we've got Smart Conference coming up. And for those people that are already plugged in with Ramsey Plus, because you are a Ramsey Plus member, you are going to be able to live stream Smart Conference right into your home. There it is on November 7th. You can stream it in already as a member of Ramsey Plus. You're going to see it. You're going to get it for free. This is a $40 option here.

And so you're going to hear from, I'm going to tell you, Smart Conference is one of my favorite events, people. You're going to going to hear from i'm telling you smart conference is one of my favorite events people uh you're going to get to hear from dave you're going to get to hear from dr meg meeker uh dr henry cloud uh you're going to hear from deloney me christy ao ken i mean that's all of us and we're going to be doing it from right here we're going to have a blast um this is your first one you ready let's do? Let's do it. Let's do it, man. Okay, rookie. We'll have to see if you're ready. It's going to be fun, though.

I tell you, all the content information there, regardless if you're 18 to 80, you've got an opportunity to learn about career, about money, about personal development, parenting, marriage. I mean, it really is. It is an absolute top-notch event. Can't wait, man. It's exciting. It is fun. All right, let's get to the phones. We got Allison. Uh-oh, John, this one's you. Allison, what's your question for John? Hi, guys. So I want to help my boyfriend right now. His job is going through some management changes, and there's a potential that he could lose his job. And I don't know how I can be there for him to help him make a plan without taking kind of control, because I tend to do that.

And then also, he kind of has anxiety, and I don't want him to spiral either. So how can I help validate him, but also help prepare him? Well, one, Allison, high five to you for knowing that you are somebody who likes to go in and control things and take over. You've won half the battle here. Yeah, self-awareness. That's right. That's a great gift, Allison. So good for you.

I'm high-fiving you all the way in Des Moines. Thanks. What's his job? He's an engineer for a kind of well-known company in the area. Okay. So if he loses his job or if he gets, I love that term, management restructuring. That's old Goodwill hunting line. So the management's restructuring, he loses his job.

Is he going to have to leave Des Moines? Are you all going to have to get out of there? What's plan B? He's looked at other jobs in the area, but I think it's kind of slim pickings with the way things are going with COVID and everything. So he loses his job. This may be a bigger existential issue. This may mean y'all are going to have to be apart.

He's going to have to leave. So he's not just wrestling with, I may lose my job. He's wrestling with, I may have to move. I may be separated from my girlfriend for a while. So this is a bigger deal? Yeah. And he just bought a house a few months ago. So he is nervous about all that. have to move i may be separated from my girlfriend for a while so this is a bigger deal yeah and he just bought a house a few months ago so he is you know nervous about all that allison i'm curious how long have y'all been dating uh six months okay so what i would tell you is wait till you

have a non here's the thing so chris is looking at me like i'm crazy. No, no, no. Six months, Allison, the reality is you're going to have a very small voice in his life. And I hate to tell you that that way. If y'all have been dating for four or five years, y'all are engaged. That's one conversation. Six months in is you're going to be more of a support role than a planning role. Super support. Okay. And I'll tell you that without being rude or ugly to you.

Know your spot on this. Know your spot on this. Know your place in this. And what I would do is wait, and when he's having a good day, things are okay, and just say, would you be interested in making a plan? Like, what are you thinking about? What are you going to do for your house? What are you going to do for job opportunities? Have you sent some resumes out?

And really, at the end of the day, that's the extent of what you can do. You may go to the next step, which is to ask him, how are ways I can support you? Let him tell you. Let him teach you. And then do what you can to follow his support request. I've got a buddy who has been one of my longest, oldest friends on planet Earth who's had a lot of job transition turmoil over the last six months. And I just call him and check on him once a week

what's the updates on your job and he doesn't have a lot but he's slowly starting to to to dig in and find some traction get some other ideas and here's the thing he didn't ask me to solve his problems i can't solve his problems i can tell him that i love him and check in on him and see how he's checking in that's right and allison i think this is important for you to kind of pay attention to see how this dude responds right i mean because when you ask him okay if this is important for you to kind of pay attention to see how this dude responds. Right? I mean, because when you ask him, okay, if this is, what can I do to help, as John's saying, and kind of finding out his plan, because you don't want a child, you need a man.

And so really kind of getting a feel for how he's thinking and his process. I think this is a great opportunity for you to kind of be aware of, hey, okay, how's he wired? How's he going to respond when life doesn't go perfect? Because I'm going to tell you, it doesn't ever go as planned. It's good to plan, but you're going to have to adjust and be flexible. So I would ask, I would encourage, but I love that you know you, that you tend to try to control it. Don't do that for him.

Actually, I'm going to say this, Allison. Don't do that to him. Because if you take control, you're stealing his growth opportunity. Yeah, that's true. Are you going to do it? No, I won't. All right. I'm just saying.

If you find yourself. Because just like you said, Hogan, that's cute info. I'm going to do what I need to do. If you find yourself like you said hogan that's cute info i'm gonna do what i need to do if you find yourself allison more worried about his future than he is that's a big red signal that's a problem it's a big flag for your the future of your relationship for um for him for you for everybody right is six months real no i like you john deloney six months is not real I know. Maybe it could be on the beginning phase. Of course it could. But this is not.

Yeah, that's what I thought, too. And then I thought maybe I'm just hard-hearted. But I'm emotional. Both and. I've got all the emotions and feels and things in there. I've got three of them. Six months is enough that I care. Six months is enough that I've started envisioning.

Yeah. But six months is not enough to where you get a full seat at the table. Hey, I'm serious about this. If someone like Allison knows herself, and you tend to have some control issues just like I do, how do you dial that back? Like with your buddy who's having the job situation, I know you. I know you're a straight shooter. I know you've got stuff you want to tell him, but you haven't. Right. you haven't right why well i have okay what i haven't done is owned the outcome i got you not mine okay right no that's that's the healthiest way to do it and it took me a long time to get there because

i wanted to give advice and then i wanted to make sure i was right and i wanted to i wanted to i wanted to so now i'm going to look at somebody and say, you don't look like you're doing well. I want you to know I'm thinking about you. That's it. If you want to invite me in later to that conversation, great. But I'm not going to insert myself into that anymore. Don't own the outcome. That's not mine to own.

I like that, man. If I get invited into it. That's right. If he calls me and says, hey, I'm really struggling between this job and this job. What do I do? Then I'm going to hear him out. He's invited me in. Until then, I'm going to tell him, I love you.

I think you should let this one go and go to this one and that's that's it that's my job as somebody who cares about somebody boy that's smart no i mean that's you look at that and you go yeah that's the that's the smartest way to be able to approach it so allison tells this guy that she's starting to imagine a future with i'm worried about the fact you're not worried i'm worried about that you're spending more time on video games instead of looking for jobs. I'm worried that you just bought this house and you just got notified you may not have a job in two months and you haven't already put it on the market. I'm worried about it.

And then, let it be. I'm worried about, oh, I like that. And again, you're being real. I'm being vulnerable. That's right. But you're not owning the outcome. That's priceless information. This is the dave ramsey show Thank you. all right this is the dave ramsey show welcome back uh again if you are ever near the area come visit us here in the lobby uh fantastic we've had families out there, people that are touring and looking around and really taking in the building.

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We're getting to the phone lines. If you're out there, we'd love to hear from you. 888-825-5225. Again, that's 888-825-5225. We're going to go to Cincinnati, the land of graders, Skyline, Chile, and all the other things, and talk to Amanda. Amanda, how are you?

Hi, I'm good. How are you? I'll focus the not finished, young lady. How can John and I help you? So, since I've started listening this year, I saved up the $1,000, started tackling my debt, but I didn't really consider the holidays that coming up and i have a pretty big family okay a lot of a big family on my

spouse's side okay and like 10 co-workers that i would have to probably buy gifts for as well says who why do you have to do that, Amanda? Obligation. Oh, you mean obligation to who? The co-workers. It's just their tradition. Their tradition. Their tradition.

Amanda, we are about to set you free. I'm serious. Are you driving right now? I'm in the car. You're about to have wings sprout out the back of your car. We are about to free you. We are about to give you some information that's going to change your whole mindset with the car. You're about to have wings sprout out the back of your car. We are about to free you. We are about to give you some information that's going to change your whole mindset with the holidays. Here you go. First and foremost, you know who you shop for, who you can afford to shop for.

All right? Big families, you know what you do? You draw names. Yep. You get one name. Everybody draws one name, and you buy a gift for that person. No more buying 48 gifts. No more swipe-a-thons running through the mall with a credit card or online and taking three years to pay off Christmas. No more of that. Them days is done. right the way you do christmas and you know what you can do you give someone a coupon and you make them dinner or if they have kids you watch their kids you give them a coupon for a free weekend okay maybe not a weekend that's a lot got kid i mean you may watch for a couple hours or something but here's the thing you're not gonna you don't have to have that obligation anymore

no more and amanda it starts with you how old are you 31 all right perfect it starts with you. How old are you? 31. All right. Perfect. It starts with you sending an email to your family that says, COVID has wrecked us this year. I'm doing things a little bit differently. I hope you'll join me. Instead of buying gifts for everybody this year, we're going to draw names. Or I'm not buying gifts this year. I'm going to do something that's going to be more meaningful. I'm going to write a letter to every single person over the next two months, whatever that's going to look

like. You take ownership of what happens next. And oftentimes I experienced this in my own family. Everyone's just waiting for that one person to call it. And you're 31. You're not a 22 year old trying to figure things out. You let it fly. Your 10 coworkers, you tell them, guys, I can't do it this year. I'm not doing it this year. How about that? I'm not doing it this year. Instead, let's all go out to lunch. Let's all go have a potluck. We're all going to bring stuff that we're going to, that we love. And I bet you're going to set your coworkers free. Oh, you, Amanda, you having the courage to bring this up and talk about it and to go first, I'm telling you, you will get people going. Thank you. Thank you for bringing this up and talk about it and to go first, I'm telling you, you will get people going.

Thank you. Thank you for bringing this up because I didn't know what I was going to do. And Amanda, here's the flip side of this for me as a financial guy. What I know to be true is that if people don't speak up, they will end up using debt. They will end up robbing Peter to pay Paul with this situation. And then guess what? You wake up a week after Christmas with more anxiety and more financial stress than you had on the front end. You didn't fix anything. It's like three-card Monty where you're trying to move it around and you think it's going to make feel, but it's not. And so I just want to give you permission to not

have to feel that obligation, that pseudo-obligation of having to buy for everybody anymore because you just don't have to. And we live in a messed up situation right now. If there's ever a moment to change a tradition that folks don't like, it's right now. It really is. It's right now. John, people are going to. I've already talked to some friends that said, hey, for Thanksgiving we always used to. Yep.

Not anymore. Not anymore. And so I go, yeah, no. You get a chance. What we always used to. Yep. Not anymore. Not anymore. And so I go, yeah, no, you get a chance. What's your new normal? Yep. Right? What is that thing going to be? And you may not be able to go spend the week with your grandparents or, you know, with all this stuff.

So what's the new normal? And I think this is an important thing, especially psychologically. Traditions are something we hold near and dear. They're important. They're important they're important but now just shifting that up like that that's going to cause some people to to feel some stuff it is and that's why when you know things are important we've always done new year's eve this way we've always done thanksgiving this way just to wipe the board is is part of it right but you got to be honest with everybody yeah Somebody's got to speak the unspoken.

Someone's got to put it out there. Guys, I just don't have the money this year. COVID wrecked me. It was hard. I'm not as stable as I thought I was going to be financially. I've got on the Dave Ramsey plan, guys. I'm not going to buy a bunch of gifts this year. It is what it is what it is.

And then you offer the alternative. I'm going to write everybody a letter. I'm going to make handcrafted gifts. We're all going gonna go out to one big meal whatever it is take ownership of it and i'm gonna tell you making the statement that hey covet has wrecked my situation i can't do it this year this is not debatable no yeah this is not something where someone could say well i mean are you sure no no no no no no no no no as mom Mama Hogan used to tell me, I'll never forget. I turned 16, John. And believe it or not, I rolled in and told Mama Hogan I was going to use her car.

And she looked at me and she goes, bless your heart. And I go, what are you talking about? She goes, I own that car. Like, you can't come tell me. And she used to say, honey, I'm not debating. I'm stating. Oh, I like that. Oh, that's Mama Hoganism.

Yes. I'm not debating. I'm stating. And so when you start to speak abouthoganism yes i'm not debating i'm stating and so when you start to speak about what you're going to do what your family's going to do listen you're not debating you're stating it's not a debatable there's no going back and forth this is what we're going to do this is what i can afford to do and i don't want you to feel the guilt in that because i'm going to tell you christmas ain't got nothing to do with them gifts it's about the gift and so having the difference in mindset and I'm going to tell you, Christmas ain't got nothing to do with them gifts. It's about the gift.

And so having the difference in mindset and having the courage to stand up for yourself and your financial future, I'm going to tell you something, Amanda, you'll shift the game. And if at age 31 you can get this in your spirit, you won't fall for anybody else's ideals or thoughts. You're going to think clearly for yourself. My guess is that her family is going to all exhale. Yes, they are. And just say, gosh.

No, they are. Like you said, someone had the courage to say it. Yep. Because people are feeling that. And John, I'm going to tell you, the emotions that you can see run high during the holidays, people tend to are remembering family members that have passed, hurting about where they're not where they wanted to be. There's all these things.

And I hope this year's a year we can find more joy than we've ever found before. Think about heading into the holiday season as a chalkboard that we used to have as a kid. And it's been wiped clean. And let's rewrite what we're going to experience. Who we're going to talk to. Who we're going to heal. What relationships we're going to heal. Who we're not going to deal with anymore. Let this be a moment.

Outcomes I'm not going to try to own. I'm not going to own the outcomes. I learned that one today. No, that's one I'm going to write down. And so I want to encourage you all right now. We are in October. Go ahead and sit down tonight. Have a talk conversation with your spouse. What's Thanksgiving going to look like?

Paint the picture. Go ahead and start talking about it right now. And some of you have got outlaws. Excuse me, in-laws. I said outlaws. I said that out loud, too. And some of you got those that have been controlling the family traditions and all that. Guess what?

Where's time to be grown-ups now? Yep. And so you might Skype them for 45 minutes on Thanksgiving Day. Or what is this? You all get united on what you're going to do in this new normal. And I think, too, that can be an empowering thing for couples. Oh, man, you just stand up a little bit taller.

You don't have that tension, that purveying low-level anxiety that just burns through the holidays. You're just free, man. I like this idea. All right, you all, listen to me. Thank you for taking the time to tune in. I want to thank producer James Childs,

associate producer Kelly Daniel, all of you for taking the time to tune in. This has been the Dave Ramsey Show. This episode is over, but if you heard about an event, product, or service and didn't have a chance to write it down, don't worry. We list everything you've heard about during this episode in the podcast show notes section or head over to DaveRamsey.com and click Dave recommends.