The Ramsey Show - App - Renting for Life Is Not a Good Plan (Hour 2)

Episode Date: December 30, 2019

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios. It's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I am Dave Ramsey, your host. This is your show, America. Thank you for joining us. Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Lena starts us off this hour in New York City. Hi, Lena. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, thank you. Thank you for taking

my call. Sure. What's up in your world? Well, currently, Dave, right now I have a lot of student loans, and I have some credit card debt that I'm trying to, you know, pay off. But just the amount of income that I have that comes in for a month, it's not really able to, like, you know, even touch or pay off the student loans. But I'm able to pay off the credit cards, but it'll just take a few months for that to happen. Good. So, yeah, so I'm able to pay off the credit cards, but it'll just take a few months for that to happen. Good. So, um, yeah, so I'm a single mom.

I have, um, I have a six year old son and, um, most of the student loans, they came, came from, um, when I was in pharmacy school. So, um, did you complete pharmacy school? I'm sorry. Did you complete pharmacy school? I didn't complete it because this happened last year. I had gotten dismissed from the program because I had a serious family emergency that kind of jeopardized my seating, and I had to withdraw my application and be kicked out of the program.

How long were you in pharmacy school? For five, for four years. You were in for four years? Four years, yeah. How much did you lack graduating? I only had three courses left in completing the on-campus coursework, and then I had to do one year of rotations, and then after one year you rotations, and then after one year, you graduate, and you have to take your boards and become a pharmacist.

Yeah. And what level of family emergency would keep you from going across that finish line? Well, I have a parent that has, like, uncontrolled high blood pressure and diabetes and they suffered a stroke uh you know very close to a stroke and that kind of um had to take on some serious care and um you know in terms of helping them and that kind of like you know meshed with the time that i had to study for for my my um studies It was rough. And who's taking care of the parent now? Well, so far, like, you know, the parent is there still with me,

and I'm still helping them out. And, you know, not being in pharmacy anymore, I'm doing courses online, and I'm doing health care management now online, and I'm going to be graduating from there next year, next year spring semester. So it's just that, like, since I have all the debts, just trying to figure out, like, what should be my action. So all the student loan debts are on hold right now because you're back in school. Yeah. And how much student loan debt do you have?

Almost $180,000. Good Lord. That's including credit cards as well. And how much of that's credit cards? In credit cards itself, I didn't add it up. About $7,000. But you're almost done with that, you said. What is your income?

Income is $1,000 per month. You're living on $12,000 a year? Yes. In New York City? In New York City, yes. No, you're not. Have you got your parents' income, too, or something? Yeah, since my mom, you know, like, that's the parent I'm with.

She's retired, so she's, you know, like, she has her pension, social security, that's being, like, all of the mortgage and everything else, all the bills. And then I'm just, I'm there with my son. I pay for my son's, um, my son's tuition for school. And then like, I, I try to take care of like, you know, buying groceries and paying off credit cards and everything. Okay. So like, but my, what my plan was to do was just to try and see with, um, with trying to get back into pharmacy school again.

And I even tried to sign up for like like, a real estate licensing, you know, just for that to be, like, a side hustle. But it's like I even thought of, like, trying to invest, but then, like, you know, hearing from your shows and, yeah. You don't need to invest. You need to finish one of these degrees and get your income up. Are you working full-time? Part-time.

Okay. Why? Because you're caring for your mother? Yeah. Well, you know, in terms of, like, you know, juggling my son and mom, it's kind of tough. Yeah, I can imagine. But, yeah. I can imagine.

Okay. I'm sorry, honey. You got your plate full. Here's the thing. Yeah. Here's the thing. You've got to figure, in order to have a career long term in either one of these things, health care management or pharmacy, you're going to have to be able to work full time, aren't you?

Yes. And how are you going to do that? Well, I haven't really thought of it, like, you know, future-wise, but, like, you know, I'm kind of focusing on just trying to finish the online course. Well, there's no reason to finish. Listen, the reason to finish the degrees is to get your income up, right? Yeah. We're not collecting degrees.

You're not a thermometer. Okay. We only need degrees to be able to make more money. And you can't make more money unless you're able or you put your life in a situation where you can work full time. And that means that you're going to have to arrange for other care for your mother, aren't you? Yeah. Long term. yeah long term not today but as you graduate from either one of these degree fields in order to take advantage of having that degree you're gonna have to be able to work am i wrong about that

well yeah you know so i don't want you going into debt any further i don't want you uh collecting degrees just to collect degrees just to say you did. I'm heartbroken that you got this close to the finish line on that pharmacy degree and have basically paid for it but weren't able to finish it. I wish you could get back in line on that at some point because that's $100,000 to $150,000 a year job, and your life changes dramatically, and you've got the money then to actually hire someone to care for your mother. But actually the money that she has coming in from retirement would pay for a caregiver,

you know, in her situation. And you may have to go that route. You may not have another way around it. So you just have to look at that and think about long term. OK, five years from today, where am I going? And step by step, how am I going to get there? The $180,000 doesn't scare me if you're making 150 a year. I want you to pay it off really fast. It's really bad. But it doesn't scare me. It does scare me if you think you're going to make 12,000 a year for the next 10 years and stay in your

mother's home and care for her. That's not a plan. You're going to have to do something else. You've boxed yourself in the corner here. Short term, you took care of your mom. That's a wonderful thing you did. Long term, you're going to have to take care of your son, which involves arranging other care for your mother, I think, unless I'm missing something. I'm not trying to be mean to your mom or something. I'm just trying to think about how you're going to take care of your mother, I think, unless I'm missing something. I'm not trying to be mean to your mom or something.

I'm just trying to think about how you're going to take care of your kid and your $180,000 miss. Wow. You call me back if I can help. I'll help you any way I can, kiddo. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Let me tell you a story about two families that are very much alike in a lot of ways. Both families have two working parents and a couple of young kids. Each has debt and has struggled to make ends meet.

But they're starting to make headway with their budgets and smarter decisions with money. They have dreams and plans, and the only real difference is that one family has the right amount of term life insurance and the other doesn't. Big difference. If one of the parents die, and that does happen, their well-being would be destroyed.

Paying for the mortgage, utilities, food, and that does happen, their well-being would be destroyed. Paying for the mortgage, utilities, food, and other bills would be impossible, let alone saving for education or retirement. That's why every day I talk relentlessly about getting term life insurance. Just go to ZanderInsurance.com or call 800-356-4282 and see how inexpensive it really is. Be the family that takes those deliberate steps to be different and responsible. It really does make you the hero of your story, and it puts you on course for better things ahead. Thank you for joining us, America.

Glenn is in Huntington, West Virginia. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show, Glenn. Hi, Dave. How are you doing? Better than I deserve, man. How can I help? Better than I deserve, too. Dave, I'm looking at nursing as a second career. I'm 54 years old. I am single and have no debt.

I do qualify for vocational rehabilitation because I have a spinal problem, and I've got a bad hip right now, so I'm having trouble doing any kind of job. We're one month away from starting the first semester of nursing school, and I was notified that vocational rehab is cutting our funds. Why? So I guess it's the state decided that they needed to allocate money somewhere else. I don't know exactly why. This came up just this week, and I'm looking at having to spend $2,500 just to go to class the first day. Do you have $2,500? I've got about $12,000 in the bank, and my properties are paid for and that kind of thing.

I don't even have a rental income. I'm not working. I actually came back here from North Carolina to take care of my dad some years ago and got stuck in this cycle of got a bad hip, looking for a job, can't find a job, and finally went back to vocational rehab. And I'm a straight-A student right now okay and good for you the pre uh pre-nursing classes so and how much will it cost to go through nursing school approximately uh 15 to 20 000 okay do you have a proper one of the properties that you own that you could sell that would pay for that yes um i don't think it's going to sell in 30 days.

Well, you have $12,000. I mean, you can take the first $2,500 and get started, get the property up for sale, and pay for it, right? Yes, that's true. The property that I could sell is in North Carolina. Well, the other thing, I guess, is... What's it worth? The one that would sell right now would be $30,000.

Okay. Well, that would definitely take care of everything, and it's paid for. I think for the next two years, yes. Yeah, and that gets you through nursing school. I'm curious, if your hip is messed up, how you're going to nurse? Well, they're looking at doing a hip replacement. Oh, okay. And so I haven't done very well at taking care of myself.

I've got some other things that I've got to get under control, like the high blood pressure and high blood sugar. It's not really high, but it's there. So we're waiting on that. And that's kind of a negative thing. And I've been through student loans before. They've offered to give me the student loan. No, thank you.

You have the money to pay for it. You just have to decide that you want nursing that badly. Yeah. And I think Vocational Rehab has said that they were going to take care of the the hip replacement but uh you know i'm kind of nervous about everything with our economy nowadays and it's making me a little you know a little bit upset uh yeah i have started looking for a job but there's not much here and and uh and and late notice, it's kind of difficult. Sure.

Well, I mean, if you can get the hip replacement done and get through nursing school by selling this piece of property, that puts you in your mid-50s with a nursing degree, and there's no reason you stay there then. You can go wherever you want to go, right? Yep, that's true, and that's kind of an option, you know, especially with long-distance nursing or what they call it, travel nursing. Yeah, but, I mean, there's nothing that – is there anything – is your dad still alive? No, no.

What's holding you there? My girlfriend. Okay, all right. That's fair. That's a reasonable anchor yeah well i mean you just kind of got to start laying out your goals like that and saying what do i want more than i want something else and my rule is i don't want anything badly enough to go into debt for it period just period not going into debt now once i start that then if i lay that as my foundation then i

got to look around go okay how can i do this they were going to pay for it they're not i got a house over north carolina get that sold we're not moving back there that way doesn't sound like let's get it sold use that money finish up nursing get the hip replacement done hopefully they're going to pay for that hopefully they don't pull the funding on that too and um you know know, as you said, get your blood pressure under control so you can get that surgery done. And, you know, let's look up with a game plan where we're doing something you want to do with your life a few months, a few years from now.

But you systematically take steps towards that. And that all sounds more important than owning a $30,000 house in North Carolina to me. Cliff is in Springfield. Hi, Cliff. How are you? Hey, how you doing, Dave? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Great. Okay, Dave. So I got a question. So basically, my wife and I paid off all our debt, $30K, and I make about $60K. She makes about $33K. And I make about 60K. She makes about 33K. Good for you. Thank you. So with that being said, right now, she really wants a house. We've been married for about four years now, no kids, but she really wants a house. Good.

But now my rent that I rent from a kind of like a friend, friend connections type of acquaintance. And my rent is about six hundred and forty bucks. Now, that includes heat, hot water, electricity, cable and Internet, everything. So right now, I'm not really in a rush to leave the spot. So would you recommend just, you know, paying the 20% down and just getting a house if that's going to make her happy? Or would you think it would be smarter just to wait it, like, you know, three, four years

and then possibly get a house? Yeah. Cash. Okay. Well, I mean, you need to decide together which of those routes you're going to go. And, you know, you just say, okay, how much money do we need to buy a house exactly? And how long will it take us to save that amount?

And do the actual math. We're going to save this much a month for these many months that gets us to paying cash or paying 20% down or whatever. We tell folks to be debt-free, have your emergency fund in place, and have a good strong down payment before you buy. And I think you're pretty much in that situation. Yep. And never buy more than a 15-year fixed where the payment is more than a fourth of your income. And if you do that, we don't yell at people. If you do something other than that, we say you're not ready to buy a house yet.

That's dumb. But if you've got your emergency fund, your debt-free, plus some kind of a down payment, and on a 15-year fixed, you're able to pull this off where the payment's no more than a fourth of your take-home pay, there's nothing wrong with that. I don't borrow money at all, but it's the one kind of debt in that situation that for a short period of time I don't yell at you for. I still want you to get that paid off as quick as you can. Renting for the rest of your life because your guy is giving you a good deal is not a plan. Renting for a period of time

because you're getting a good deal in order to achieve a goal of a certain down payment level or 100% down payment level, that's fine too. But just this idea that, oh, we're going to rent because it's cheap and someday we'll buy a house. No, no, that doesn't work. In 42 months, I'm going to buy a house. In 44 months, 36 months, 37 months, whatever it is, that's how we're going to buy a house in 44 months, 36 months, 37 months, whatever it is. That's how we're going to buy our house. And if she doesn't see that and then you all don't do the hard work to move towards that every single month,

then she's not going to be okay having patience with this because she's going to think you're just going to sit there and rent the rest of your life, and that's not a plan. And she would be right about that. So we don't want you renting the rest of your life, and that's not a plan. And she would be right about that. So we don't want you renting the rest of your life. We want you to have a plan, lean into the plan, whatever it is. But somewhere between the 15-year fixed, where the high payment's no more than a fourth of your take-home pay, somewhere between that and 100% down, anywhere in that range is an okay conservative range, and then turn around and get the house paid off as fast as you possibly

can so hey man thanks for calling in we appreciate you joining us this is the dave ramsey show Thank you. We'll be right back. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions, Saul is with us. Hi, Saul. How are you? Good, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. Where do you live? Lubbock, Texas. Welcome to Nashville. One of our top guys here is a Lubbock, Texas guy. He said it's so flat there you can watch your dog run away for three days.

That's about right. Love that line. Oh, welcome, man. Good to have you. Thank you. So how much debt have you paid off? Little bit close to $48,000. Way to go.

And how long did this take you? Seven months. All right. And your range of income during that time? Went from making about $60,000 a year to close to about $130,000 a year. You doubled your income in seven months? Yes, sir. How? Graduated nurse practitioner school that helped and got every job that I could. Wow. Yeah, you did. You did do both. You got a great career and you maximized it.

Yes, sir. Well done. Congratulations. So $48,000 in student loan debt? Student loan debt from when I went to undergraduate school initially. Essentially, that was debt that I incurred when I went to school in the early 2000s. My parents initially took out a lot of student loan in my name, and there was credit cards in there. So by the time i got to uh paying that off it was quite some time later so that's where that initial debt came from how'd you get through nurse practitioner school without debt uh joined the united states army

gave them a couple years of my life some time overseas in afghanistan and they paid for my nursing my bachelor's in nursing and my nurse practitioner. Wow. That's wonderful. Well, thank you for your service and it worked out for you, huh? Yes, sir. Thank you for the support. Very cool.

Very well done. And so you're no longer in the service? I'm on reserve status. I actually had drilled this weekend and caught the red eye to come here to be here this morning. Oh, my goodness. Wow. Well, thank you so much again. Congratulations.

So what made you seven months ago decide you're going to get this debt knocked out this fast? Well, like I said a little bit earlier, essentially my parents, my entire adult life had used my identity to take out student loans in my name when I went to school the first time and credit cards and store cards of all kinds. So when I graduated school initially, I had a little bit over $55,000 worth of student loan debt, credit cards I had no idea even existed. So when I went to join the Army after graduation initially, I couldn't even get a security clearance at the time because I had so much debt built up, but paid off enough to get into the service and just been on the journey ever since. So you chose instead of turning it in as, as identity theft to pay it. Yeah. My family,

you know, close knit family, no matter how much I might've pressed my mom or my dad about the student loan debt or the credit cards or any of it, there was, you know, we're family. So, you know, in spite of the numbers that didn't make sense about how much school really did pay for or cost uh i just i let it ride for a long time and just let it kept on going until i decided to do something about it credit cards you didn't use at all no no i didn't and you paid all those paid all those off came back from a deployment from afghanistan in 2010, came home. When you leave as a single soldier, you have to leave your life.

Your life goes on even though we're deployed. So being a single soldier, knowing everything my parents had done, I was like, you know, they're not going to do anything while I'm deployed. I'm in a combat area. They're not going to do anything like that. So what had happened was I had my moment of being sick and tired. And being sick and tired, when I came home from that deployment, you know, all my fingers and all my toes. And I'll never forget, my dad sat me down and told me, son, we borrowed some money from you. And I looked at my bank account statement, and that was code for, by the way, while you were deployed, we were using your checking account as an ATM machine and didn't have anything to show for it. So at that point, I really had that sick and tired of being sick and tired moment

where I just looked at my life and said, I'm a college graduate, I'm a combat veteran, I'm a sergeant in the United States Army, and I don't have anything to show for it other than a mountain of debt and a piece of paper on the wall. And none of the debt's your fault. So have you done something to stop them from doing this anymore? In 2010, I talked to my parents and I told them, you know, I will not drown with you anymore. I told that to my mother and my father, and they're travel agents for guilt trips, so that was kind of hard to do initially.

Packed up all my stuff, moved away, changed the phone number, and decided that I wanted better and stopped it when I decided to do something about it, even though I should have done it a lot sooner. So they've not stolen your identity since 2010? No, I've got a Xander account, and I've watched that thing like a hawk now. I bet. I'm so sorry. What a heartbreak. But you took responsibility for every bit of it, even though it wasn't yours, and cleaned it all up in the last seven months.

Yes, sir. Congratulations. So what is the key to getting out of debt, Sergeant? I would say two things are the biggest thing. One, and this is first and foremost, this is the mindset. We talk about that in the military a lot. You can be a Viking or you can be a victim. And when I realized all this was happening, you know, I cried. I was upset.

And, you know, I could either stay there in my pity and be sad and cry, but the debt wasn't going to go anywhere, and I needed to take action to do something about it. And I decided to be a Viking and go out there with that warrior mentality and get it done, and then having a big why to keep you motivated as well. I mean, when you come back from a deployment, anybody that's ever served in the military overseas, you take a real big stock of your life because there are men and women that do not get to come home. And I was, in spite of everything I might have come home to, I got to come home at least.

And I think we honor those that don't get to come home by living the best life that we absolutely can. So that was a big part of it as well. And I suspect it makes you appreciate the opportunities that a lot of people take for granted. Yes, sir. I mean, that you can walk up and down the street and buy anything you want to buy. You walk into a Walmart and there's more stuff there than an entire country has in other places. And you can go, I mean, and you've got the freedom to make choices in your own life and economic opportunity all around you.

And I suspect you see that through a different lens, don't you? It changes your perspective on a lot of things when you kind of see that. So coming home, you take stock of what's really important versus, you know, things that aren't so much. But yes, yes, it does. Very, very cool. Well, congratulations, sir. We're very proud of you. Very, very proud of you. Who was your biggest cheerleader? I would say my girlfriend and her parents, Katie and Glenn. they were really big supporters. My girlfriend was really excited and we talked about it and why I wanted to do it. And, you know, before we decided to, you know, get married, even though you say you don't have to be out of debt

to get married, I was like, this is something I want to do on my own so we can just have a clean slate and start a whole new life. And now you do. Yes, sir. Very well done. Well, we've got a copy of Chris Hogan's Everyday Millionaire's book for you. We think that's the next chapter in your story, sir. You will be not only debt-free, but now on your way to being a millionaire nurse practitioner, completely paid for, no debt at all, making $130,000 and a bright future. Very proud of you, sir. Very well done.

Thank you. Thank you again for your service. Saul from Lubbock, Texas, $48,000 paid off in seven months, making $60,000 to $130,000. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. I'm debt-free! Yeah! Woo-hoo-hoo-hoo-hoo-hoo!

I love it! Well done. Very well done. Well done. Very well done. Awesome stuff. Great job, sir. Open phones at 888-825-5225. You jump in. We'll talk about your life, your money.

888-825-5225. All right, let's go to, well, let's not do that. Since I'm running up on time here, I'll just watch what I'm doing a little bit. Steven on Twitter says, Dave, I'm thinking about buying a zero-turn mower for my yard. They're offering 0% financing. I normally don't finance anything, but my interest rate at the bank is 2%. I could pay cash. It looks like I should finance.

What do you think? Dude, if your best investment opportunity is borrowing money on a zero-turn mower, you might be a redneck. Seriously. You've got to be kidding me. You're going to borrow money on a lawnmower in order to leave money in the bank at 2%. No, no, no, no, no, no. Don't get caught up in that stuff. So here's the thing. You write a check and you buy the lawnmower for cash, assuming you're out of debt,

or you don't buy the lawnmower. And you don't do that if you're getting into your emergency fund to cover that. So there you go. Wow. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Thank you for joining us, America. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Lisa's on Facebook. Dave, I'm 53.

Do I just need term life insurance to cover for working years? I plan to work 10 more years. Or should I cover it through age 73 to 78 you only need life insurance to the extent that someone is counting on your income and you're replacing your income and lisa from your question on facebook i can't tell that if you are a single lady who is 53 and you have a tiny bit of money saved, over $10,000 so that your parents or your friends or your kids would not have to pay to bury you, then you really don't need any life insurance, especially if you have a little bit of money.

You're self-insured as a single person who does not have dependents. Now, if you have people who are counting on your income to live their life well, like, for instance, let's say you're 53 and you're married and you have a college student. Well, then you would need some life insurance until you had enough money that you didn't need life insurance. So let me kind of give you an example. A good way of looking at it is this. Let's take a 32-year-old that has, well, let's make them 33 since you're 53. And they have a two-year-old and they're 33 years old. They have a two-year-old and a five-year-old. Okay. And that's a husband and wife, and the wife makes $50,000, and the husband makes $40,000, okay? Each of them would need about 10 to 12 times their income in term life insurance

over 15- or 20-year-level term. So let's say that the wife bought, she makes $50,000, and she bought $600,000, that'd be $12,000, and the husband is making $40,000, and so he buys $500,000. That's about 12 times on him. And they buy 20-year level term insurance policies from Zander Insurance. Get the best prices anywhere, zanderinsurance.com, right? They put that in place.

If anything happens to them, let's say that husband walks out the door that morning and something bad happens, the wife gets $500,000 invested, would create $40,000 worth of income. If you invest $500,000, made 8% on it, that'd be $40,000 worth of income to replace the husband's $40,000 salary that died when he did. And that gives her the ability to raise those children with the same income level that the household was before the husband passed. But let's say that that doesn't happen, which, by the way, it usually doesn't statistically. And they live to 53. Well, now let's visit that family 20 years later.

Their term life insurance was 20 years. It's done after 20 years. They've got to buy new life insurance, or they've got to be without life insurance. Well, if they're on the Dave Ramsey plan, 20 years later, they will have paid off their 15-year fixed-rate mortgage, usually in about 10 years. And so it's been paid off for a good decade. The kids who were three and five are now 23 and 25. They are grown and through college or should be. Statistically, you would graduate from college in four years, I'd be 22 years old for those of you that know how that works. Okay. So you're 53,

your kids are grown through college and out of the house. Your house is paid for. Oh, you've been investing like I teach over all these years, 15% of your income until your house was paid off. And then you've invested even more into good growth stock, mutual funds, and your 401ks and Roth IRAs. And so you've got000 or $800,000 in mutual funds. All right, now there's no kids at home, there's no mortgage, and there's $700,000 in your 401ks. If he dies, you're okay with no life insurance. If she dies, he's okay with no life insurance.

They have become self-insured by getting out of debt and building wealth and raising their kids to leave, come back only with grandkids for visits. That's the plan. We want the inmates to escape the asylum. That's the goal. Fly and be free, little eaglets. And so that's the plan. The kids are grown and gone, no mortgage.

There's a pile of money in our retirement. Then your need for life insurance at 53 in that scenario is gone. Now, we don't know where Lisa is. We know she's 53. We don't know if she did all of that to this point or if she's a single lady at 53. But the point is, is there someone that is counting on you? If you're 33 years old, you got two little kids, you need life insurance in almost every case, unless you're a multimillionaire and you're in really good shape. Today at 58, I still have life insurance, but it is not because I need it.

It is very simply because my wife wants it. It's called SWI. Sharon wants it. And she'd rather have another $3 million worth of term life insurance on me for some strange reason because she's just real sure she's going to outlive me. That's how her whole estate plan is set up. And so, well, she's probably right. 75% of you ladies do outlive your husbands. how her whole estate plan is set up and so well she's probably right 75 of your ladies do outlive your husbands so there you go but um and she's in a lot better shape than i am

too which is simultaneously shaming and sickening but and wonderful but um anyway the uh yeah so she just wants some life insurance but there's no financial planning need that the Ramseys have for life insurance. Believe me, Sharon's more than okay with the income off of the rental property alone if she didn't have anything else, and she's got a lot more than that. So you become self-insured by building wealth if there are dependents. If there are no dependents, you may be 26 years old, single, and have $10,000, which that way your parents don't have to pay to bury you. If you got your emergency fund saved or you have a little tiny life insurance policy, don't go buy a big term policy. You don't need a bunch of insurance right now.

And you sure don't use life insurance as an investment vehicle either. So get your term insurance in place. All of you need term life insurance unless you're rich or you have no dependents. So go get rich and get rid of the dependents. This is an everyday millionaire goal. Children moving out is part of my financial plan. So you 34-year-olds must leave your mother's basement. This is how it works. Oh, my gosh.

Open phones here at 888-825-5225. Brad is in Memphis. Hey, Brad, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. How's it going? Better than I deserve. What's up in your world? Well, my wife introduced you to me actually years ago, and I just have not

gotten on board as well as I should have. So we are years later worse off than we started eight years ago. My question is, we have $186,000 in debt from credit cards and loans. Good Lord. Yeah, it's a lot. And about a year and a half, almost two years ago, we bought a fifth wheel, and we owe $44,000 on it. And I know I've heard you say to other people, you know, get a personal loan just to pay down what you're upside down on and get rid of it. And I'm kind of struggling with that. What are you struggling with?

You're having trouble finding the loan? Is that what you mean, or you don't want to do it? No, I'm struggling with getting rid of it, because if we stay as gazelle intent as we can be and have been, because we have been debt-free once before. This was before we left the Air Force. How old are you guys? I am 37. My wife is actually listening right now. What's your household income? have been debt-free once before this was before we left the air force how old are you guys uh i am

37 my wife is actually listening right now what's your household income our household income is 100 and about 116 120 and i also have a second uh started my own business as well uh landscape company so we both work at the VA down in Memphis. I'm an IT tech, and she's a – Brad, you're going to have to get more sick and tired of being sick and tired than you are now. Oh, I am definitely sick and tired of it. No, you just told me you wanted to keep a $44,000 fifth wheel when you make $116,000 and you're in debt $186,000. You're not going to be out of debt for five years keeping that stupid thing. You're absolutely right.

Things in sanity. The pay-off schedule that I show puts me at about 3.8, about four years to pay it all off. And it's because you're keeping a bunch of crap you need to cut loose. It's a stupid camper. Seriously, man. You're right. Your life is in the balance here. It's a stupid camper.

Hey, I like that kind of stuff. I got some nice boats, but, man, it's a boat. You know? Get rid of it. If it is not blessing your family, if it's not causing your future to be where you want, it's a boat anchor in this case. So, no, you can do this, but you're going to have to cut some crap loose, man. Hey, thanks for calling in.

Hope that helps you. Open phones at 888-825-5225. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. This is James Childs, producer of The Dave Ramsey Show. Did you know you can now listen to The Dave Ramsey Show on Pandora and Spotify? For all the ways to watch and listen, check out our show page at daveramsey.com slash show.