The Ramsey Show - App - Repair the House or Buy a New One? (Hour 2)

Episode Date: March 21, 2022

Dave Ramsey & Ken Coleman discuss: Should you sell the house? How to have awkward conversations about compensation, Don't rationalize your way into debt, Repairing a house vs. buying a new one. Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. As we talk about your money, your job, your career, your mental wellness, your relationships, your life, right here on the show. 888-825-5225 is the number. Columbia, Missouri starts off this hour. Obie is with us. Hi, Obie, what's up? Hi, Dave. Hi, Ken. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. How can we help? Well, I just want to start by saying that we're debt-free.

Paid off our home mortgage late last year, and we're hoping to get on the debt-free stage one of these days. Great. How can we help? Well, I have two questions. One, I received a letter from my 401k plan, and it says that the IRS service requires plans to pass non-discrimination tests each plan year. And it says the test places percentage limits on the amount a highly compensated employee may contribute and have allocated to the 401k so basically it gave me some money back saying that i over contributed because i guess some people in the company are not contributing to the 401k correct um so i guess my question is uh does the IRS set this limit,

or can a company decide what they consider as highly compensated employees? No, there's a formula. The IRS sets a formula. It's a regulation in the 401K regulations that say it keeps all the big bosses from making a pile of money and dumping it in where the little guy is not putting any money in, and the big boss is just using the 401K to screw over the little guy and that's what it's for that's why it's there uh but it the the math you know you know can really work out big time against you so you are in the highly compensated category and uh and so that means that you do not have enough participation with the folks that are not highly compensated in the 401k that are medium, whatever. How big a company is this?

It's a family-owned home improvement retail store. Got about over 300 stores. So what, 5,000 employees uh probably more uh okay the place where i work has about uh 177 okay okay yeah you're just you're just limited it's that simple you don't have any control over the situation and the guideline is not it's not arbitrary it's not set by the company it is a formula that the irs regs hit and basically what you're telling me is a retail operation and so you got a lot of turnover at the entry level position so they don't ever bother with the 401k a lot of them working part-time jobs that kind of stuff and so it's going to keep this thing

screwed up one antidote is for them to bring in something like our smart dollar classes where you teach the employees how to handle money get them out of debt so they start their 401ks at any level uh and we've got companies your size and companies small and large all across america that are doing it for instance costco all of their employees have gone through our smart dollar and so so it's basically the Financial Peace University type lessons on getting on a budget, getting out of debt, and that enables people to begin investing then and shows them the importance of investing. And so it's really a very cool thing.

So you could talk to your leadership team about bringing in something like smart dollar because education and getting people out of debt so that they can invest is the answer to the formula long term. But that's probably a two to a three-year process to get this to where you'll pass the non-discrimination test. And the discrimination is not racial or sex discrimination. The discrimination is math discrimination. It's high-income earners are discriminating against low-income earners or medium-income earners is the concept. That's what the word means in this context.

I also want to point out, Dave, that recent studies show that employees want financial advice and guidance from their employer. That's something they're looking for. So what you've got here is also a tremendous benefit for companies like this, not just to help the individual in that situation, but to keep people staying with them longer. You're going to build loyalty. It's a real perk.

And a lot of individuals, I mean, you have to understand, if an employee looks at their employer and says, you helped me get my money life in order. They're going to be happier. They're going to be more effective at work. And they're likely to stay with you much longer. This is a straight-up benefit that people are looking for. And SmartDollar is poised to be able to help right now.

I mean, instantly. We were the first ones in the financial wellness space. I own financialwellness.com. So we were the first ones there and teaching companies uh setting companies up to be able to teach their team how to handle money whether it's got five people or five thousand people or fifty thousand people but i gotta tell you it's fun when i go to my local costco over here and i walk through and uh the guy or gal checking out my stuff is like seeing the videos hey dave what, what's going on, man? Thank you, man. Yes, that's pretty cool.

That's pretty cool. I get recognized sometimes at different places, but that one feels pretty good. Do they ever follow it up with, really, Dave? You really need that many ribs? You really? You really? Dave, you really need that much water? Seven cases of water.

I'm going to Lake House. I'm going to Lake House. Leave me alone. All right, here we go. Seven gallons of peanut butter. Amanda's with us in Minneapolis. Hi, Amanda. How are you?

Hi, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. Amanda's with us in Minneapolis. Hi, Amanda. How are you? Hi, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up? I'll try to keep it brief. With the housing market going on, my husband and I have about $285,000 in equity in our home. We've always done the work ourselves, so our house has kind of ballooned, and we've never pulled equity from it. So we carry very little debt.

After we would pay our debt off, we would have roughly 144,000 left over. We're just trying to figure out if it makes sense to sell. We're in a good financial position. We own an electrical company. We make good money. So we really don't need to sell. But my husband's really entranced by the idea of putting a lot of money into savings and buying our next house with pure cash. What would you advise? You know, if your net result is that the two of you can find a home that you like as much and you end up with zero mortgage and you've taken advantage of this white-hot market, and it causes you to be able to do that, that's okay.

If the end result is that you end up in a house you don't like because your husband got all flipped out about this real estate market, that is not a good result. Right, and that's my worry. We do own some commercial properties. He wants to, for a couple years, live in one of the commercial properties, which I'm not completely sold on. Nope.

Nope. It's just, yeah, we'd have to go back into renting for a couple years. Nope. You're not broke. You're not broke. He's just going too hard. Dial it back a notch. You're going to make plenty of money. You're going to make plenty of money.

You're going to have plenty of money. You've already made plenty of money. And this house is going to do nothing but go up in value from here. You don't need to live in a warehouse so he can take advantage of the market. Nope. Right. I got to tell you, Sharon Ramsey's not doing that crap. Yeah.

It ain't happening. And I love that. I mean, I like taking advantage of a hot market. I'm with you on that idea. But this guy, he's just pushing it over the edge, and it's going to cost him back down the road later. Nope. Nope. He may be debt-free, but he'll be sleeping on the couch.

In a warehouse. Exactly. Down by the river. This is the Ramsey Show. No matter what time of year it is, focusing on your family's financial plan is always a smart move. I get questions all the time about where to start and what to do first. One of the most crucial and affordable first steps to take is to protect your family and get term life insurance. I know it's not glamorous, but all the other steps mean a lot less if something happens to you and your family has no financial protection.

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Money stress is one of many kinds of stress all of us experience people struggle with anxiety with loneliness with stress with mental wellness all the time and here's the good news dr john deloney has a new book available for pre-order called own your past change your future it is selling like crazy i just got the sales report on a minute ago. It's a pre-sale right now. It's going crazy. It comes out in April. And if you pre-order Own Your Past, Change Your Future, you are going to get a free bonus, which includes the audio book, the e-book, and a month of free one-on-one weekly therapy through our partners at BetterHelp.

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Use the promo code RAMSEY to get the best possible deal. Today's question comes from Laura in Florida. I am studying interior design, and I have been doing some work for free for a friend who is already a designer to get experience. Recently, she asked me to take on some time intensive projects. I would like to be paid for these projects, but am unsure how to ask since I have been doing other work for free. How do I ask to be paid for these larger projects? Well, the simple answer is clearly and nicely, right? With a good helping of humility here. The challenge is you started out working for free, which I want to first say, Dave, a lot of people in today's environment, and I'm not going to go on a rant here, but they just

look down their nose at getting themselves in by working for free. And it's all about, I deserve the dignity of being paid. And this is the way the world works. So I applaud Laura for getting in and doing some work for free. And it's all about, I deserve the dignity of being paid. And this is the way the world works. So I applaud Laura for getting in and doing some work for free. But now the friend who has said, okay, we've got some new projects. I think you have to sit down and go,

hey, I'm so grateful that you allowed me this opportunity to share with you. Always lead with gratitude. Always gratitude. Always lead with gratitude. Grateful for this. It has been invaluable to me. These projects seem to be a lot more time intensive. And because of that, Always gratitude. Always lead with gratitude. Grateful for this. It has been invaluable to me.

These projects seem to be a lot more time intensive. And because of that, I'm wondering, can you pay? And what could you pay me for these? Because this is going to eat into the other areas of your life. And this is what I mean by clearly. Don't speak in gray, black and white. And don't whine about it and beat around the edges. Cut straight through it.

Here's how it's going to affect my life for these time-intensive projects. Could you pay me? Notice how I'm stating this. Could you pay me? And what would you be willing to pay me? And we have a conversation, not a negotiation. This is a friend who's already done you a real solid and i think if you go that direction and that kind of posture and when i say posture i i don't mean the physical posture i mean

the emotional i think if you do it the right way uh your friend's going to let you know what she can or can't do and then you have to be a big girl and decide what you can and can't do here's the thing anytime any of us are in a conversation with someone that is uncomfortable or awkward we tend to in the name of being nice do a ballroom dance all around the issue instead of just saying what it is. That's right. It is a lot less painful and kinder to be just cut straight through it and very calm, lower your voice tone, your volume, everything, and just say what it is.

I mean, whatever the situation is just say it yeah and it takes the air out of the room and and otherwise all this ballroom dancing adds to the awkwardness and i i did this and and you guys would think well dave's always blunt well you know what i've gotten more blunt i've gotten more direct because of this idea and because early on in our career you know we had folks working on the team we had maybe a team of 20 people or something like that someone would be screwing around they wouldn't be doing their work they'd be off track or they weren't good at it or whatever and i would get continually frustrated and they never knew it because in the name of being nice i never told them that they sucked at what they were doing right and it

and it wasn't nice because i got more and more and more frustrated until finally then then i would there would be a i wasn't ever mean to somebody but i would be like this one little thing and i would hit i'd hit this little number one with a 10 and and they're going where'd that come from well it came from six months of me putting up with you not doing it and and but i never said anything because i was nice that's the key and that's just bs to be unclear is to be unkind and here's the deal if we don't fill in the blanks for people they'll fill them in for us and there that therein lies the frustration well you start to dance they're gonna think it's worse than it is but that's the other thing. They're trying to read your mind.

You're trying to read theirs. And it just gets into this weird thing versus this is a friend. This is an easy conversation. I know where Laura's coming from. It feels like there's a lot of... But reframe this. Just reframe it. All it is is you did some part-time work for free and it's over.

That's it. Yeah. It's her option. And there's another chance here to do some more work, and it's over that's it yeah it's her and there's another chance here to do some more work but it's not gonna be free that's right you just need to go thanks for all the thanks for letting me come in here and learn this stuff and hey i'm not gonna be able to work on this other stuff unless there's pay involved because it's it's just too much and but thanks so much for letting me do this lead with gratitude close with gratitude make a gratitude sandwich man i mean by the way

the back side of this folks if laura goes in with that posture and she's been tremendously valuable to her friend and her friend realizes she's not working for free anymore great chance that she scraps some money together to hire laura so going in free and adding tremendous value you never know what that could lead to i'll give you 5050 chance to almost think about paying her anyway. I think so. I mean, you know, unless she's just trying to take advantage of her. Cody is in Bend, Oregon. Hi, Cody.

Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, pleasure to talk to you. You too. What's up? So my wife was in an accident, a vehicle accident, Going on a month now. Wow. Everybody okay? No bumps and bruises, whiplash, that kind of stuff.

Ouch. But it's still all whole, so that's good. So a van that she got hit in was a specially equipped handicapped van with ramps and tie-downs and all kinds of stuff for her special needs daughter. So you got one in a chair? Well, most of the time. I mean, typically she rides in the front seat. Thank goodness in the accident she was in the front seat and buckled in.

If she'd been in her chair, I think it could have been a lot worse. Long story short, we're in a little hatchback four-door rental car that we have to fold the seat down to put our wheelchair and walker in. So that makes the car compatible for two people. So my question is... Did you have insurance on the van? We did. We do, and the driver at fault did.

Okay. So you're going to get your check. Well, unfortunately, he's only covered up to $25,000. What was the van worth well in 2015 we paid 76 000 for it i didn't ask what it was worth in 2015 i asked what it's worth well that's we're still waiting to find out um no you don't need to wait to find out you need you know what it's worth well we got a letter from a dealership um we gave them the original sticker on it and they came back at the value of around 44 okay so it's a forty thousand dollar van and you're gonna get a forty

thousand dollar check you're gonna get a forty thousand dollar van you just had one go get you another one well and that's the thing the van itself is a unicorn. I mean, that is going to be our last van. No, it's not. There's no such thing. Vans aren't unicorns. Okay. I mean, there's special needs vans out there for $40,000 that are used. They got a wheelchair ramp and got tie-downs. Right. Besides that, she doesn't even sit in a wheelchair that much anyway.

But, I mean, I want you to take care of her, but I'm already in running you on where you on where you're going no i'm not going to tell you to go buy a 76 000 van you were driving a 40 000 van it was doing just fine right you have you have to go hunting for a needle in a haystack but it's not a unicorn it's going to be a difficult look there's not one on every corner every lot doesn't have a special needs van on it but you've been living in the special needs world you know how to source these things and dude you don't go into debt for this there's no reason to you can provide the needs of your family for forty thousand dollars it can be done or buy a twenty thousand dollar van and equip that puppy one of the two these are all possibilities got a wheelchair niece and they've got a wheelchair van, and we know they fight this stuff.

It's a hard thing you're fighting, but it can be done, and don't use it as an excuse to go into debt. It's not. We'll be right back. Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today in Boise, Idaho. Caleb and Katie are with us, and it says on my screen that they're debt-free. Way to go, guys! Yeah! How are you? How much have you paid off? $99,409.13. I i'm just gonna call it 100 way to go how long did this take 38 months 38 months and your range of income during that time

102 000 and now we're at 143 000 cool what. Cool. What do you all do for a living? I work in finance. I'm an analyst. Yeah, and I own a roofing company. Ah, very good. Good, very good. So what kind of debt was the $100,000? We were very normal um we had uh 45 000 student loans 15 000 on a car uh 12 000 on a hvec system and then credit cards and hospital stuff and all the things yeah you had quite a collection

yes we did yeah you are normal well done good job knocking this out so uh how long you been married 10 years i almost said that yeah that it takes about 10 years to make a mess that big yeah yeah yeah and then we got started listening to you and and uh decided it was time to change you so the radio show woke you up yes okay then what happened you went okay that guy on the radio show woke you up? Yes. Okay. Then what happened? You went, okay, that guy on the radio sounds weird, weird, weird, weird. Wait a minute. We need to do this.

What did you do? Yeah. We had my dad pushing us pretty hard towards it for a while, and we kind of, you know, kept calling him crazy, and then we started listening to you, and it all kind of made sense once we started listening. And hearing other debt-free screams was a big help and all that good stuff. Yeah.

Okay, wow. So your dad is pushing you, which makes you kind of push back and go, nah, I think I'll be my own people. We'll be our own people. And then you look up one day and go, eee, I've got to do this. And the worst part about it is I've got to tell him I'm doing it. So, yeah. So, Katie, whose idea? Who wants to start talking about this first, you or Caleb?

It was me. We had kind of talked about it. You had mentioned his dad saying things. And then I just started listening to it. The student loans were mostly mine. And they made me literally feel like I was in handcuffs. So, I just wanted to be done with them i just wanted to have more freedom in my life and it was pretty emotional thing for

me but i started listening to you um more and hearing those debt-free screams i just i was it was one of those things where i was like i didn't feel like it could ever happen but i also knew it had to oh caleb so the story now unfolds your dad is after you now your wife is after you yeah i had it coming in yeah you got it from both sides man you had no choice i had to fight the bullet and uh and i just decided to agree with the wife eventually it's a wise man yeah yeah good job dude good job well done all right so you you're listening to the debt-free screams and you're're going, okay, hope, hope, hope. We can do this.

Hope is coming. And what was the first thing you did on a tactical level practically to start making this change? It was actually January 1st of 2019. We had kind of been talking about it, and I told him, because I paid all our bills, and so I just told him, we have to sit down together and really look at what our debt actually is. Because I knew there were a lot of things that were kind of coming in, but I never wanted to look at it all together because it was so overwhelming. Um, and we got home from a trip and Caleb was like, okay, let's

sit down and do it. And that was such a big moment because we kind of talked about it but him saying like let's sit down and look at it it made it honestly was like an instant relief just having him in it with me and then we wrote everything out and it was pretty much from there we were just like let's do it yeah so when you wrote it all down and you saw it was a hundred grand 99 400 and something what was your first reaction uh holy cow i think she edited it might have been a little saltier than that yeah it might have been but i don't know if it's radio appropriate holy death batman yeah yeah wow yeah exactly and then but then then you start to run the math back against it going we make 102 we could make 143 and you start to run the math back against it, going, we make $102,000, we could make $143,000. And you start going, oh, wait a minute, we can do this.

Yeah. That was a big thing, too. We were like, we make a decent amount of money. How are we not seeing any of it? How are we so tight every month? Yeah, how is it we make six figures and we're broke? Right. Yeah, exactly.

In Boise freaking Idaho. I mean, my God. six figures and we're broke right yeah exactly in boise freaking idaho i mean my god yeah yeah it shouldn't have shouldn't ever be the the case uh here and uh for a hundred thousand yeah we should have been living high on the hog but uh it was every month you know worrying about what bill we're going to pay next and uh yeah it saved our marriage too uh as far as getting on the same page and looking at everything and budgeting every week. Really being a team. Yeah, I want to know, was there a moment where you saw the momentum, where either you had a conversation in maybe one of your budgeting meetings,

because you just described you guys laid it all out, and it seems like you were on the same page at that point. When did you experience that feeling of, we have this, we're going to be able to do this, let's go? I think after about like a year and a half in, we decided to do Financial Peace University. And because we kind of, we were like motivated and then we lost it just like a little bit. And we're like, let's do this. And I feel like after that, we were like, holy cow, like we really are going to finish this. Wow. Yeah. The first year we really hit the ground running pretty hard. And then, you know, about in the year and a half territory, we, you know, we weren't necessarily Dave-ish, but we had some, we had the, you know, birth of our son that we cash flowed and needed a bigger car that we cash flowed we didn't go crazy on that

but uh we wanted to get a nice big car but we talked ourselves out of it and then we did financial peace university and uh that kind of got us ramped back up again and and ready to i love it it's like the runner's win day yeah it's water break at the halfway point yeah yeah that's here we go game on again and you kick back your pace back up and go. Yeah, good for you guys. Well done. Well, Financial Peace University serves a lot of different things in people's journey. Sometimes it starts them, sometimes it finishes them.

In your case, it was the water break in the middle. That's pretty cool. I love it. Yeah, we kind of kept saying, like, oh, we don't need it. We listen to the radio. You know, we listen to Dave on the radio every day, and we got this. We know what to do. But it really did help us a lot in that halfway spot to just keep us pushing and keep going. Way to go, guys.

So proud of y'all. Who was your biggest cheerleader outside the two of you? Probably our kids, our daughter. Our daughter was, you know, she reminded us all the time we need to get this debt paid off. How old is she? How old is she? She's seven now. Oh, she's a little kid.

Okay. Wow. Very good. Yeah. She knew it was important to us, and we had the list of all of our debts on the fridge so she would see us cross it off and and get excited every time we crossed one off and um so yeah yeah i love it very cool you guys so i'm sure your dad's dancing in the street yes he was very excited when we told him we're going to be doing a debt-free screen so we just found out he was texting the whole family

i love it i love it so uh what do you tell people the key to be doing a debt-free screen. We just found out he was texting the whole family. I love it. I love it. So what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is? I mean, it's kind of cliche now, but getting on the same page with a budget every week and getting it all written out and seeing it on paper makes a big difference. And holding each other accountable. Yeah, exactly. Well, cliches come from something being the truth.

That's where they come from. So it's okay. Well done, y'all. Hey, we got a copy of Baby Steps Millionaires for you. How Ordinary People Built Extraordinary Wealth, How You Can Too. Number one bestseller. That is the next chapter in your story to be Baby Steps Millionaires. I just met some out here a few minutes ago.

So young ones, too. Very good job, you guys. And a copy of total money make over for you to give away hundred thousand dollars paid off in 38 months making 102 to 143 caleb and katie in boise idaho count it down let's hear a debt-free scream three two one We're dead free! Yeah! Woo-hoo-hoo-hoo! This is how it's done, boys and girls. Love it!

Man! They're free. They're free. This is The Ramsey Show. We'll see you next time. This is the Ramsey Show. Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225 as we talk about your career, your job, your mental wellness, your relationships, your money, everything. Hey, if you've done something stupid with money, welcome to the human race. If you've done something stupid with money, you know what that makes you?

Over 12. Every one of us have done something stupid with money, you know what that makes you? Over 12. Every one of us have done something stupid with money. Even Ken Coleman has done stupid stuff with money. Yeah. Got a whole folder. Whole folder. I mean, I've made a living telling the story of me doing stupid with zeros on the end. I've done a lot of stupid things.

And years ago, I decided on the air that when I do something stupid with money, and it costs me money, I call that money that it costs me stupid tax. And we've all paid some stupid tax. My goal is to never pay the same stupid tax twice don't make the same mistake twice and and start calling it because at some point it it's not making a mistake at some point it's just stupid you know but if you pay if you've lost money doing something stupid with money then you have paid stupid tax and um we're going to gather up we have heard some absolutely hilarious endearing fun and inspiring stupid tech stories over the years we used to do a whole hour a theme hour of stupid tech stories and we would just it was comedy we would all just laugh together

at how stupid we all can be it's not calling somebody stupid it's calling what you did stupid i'm not stupid but i have done some stupid things there's a difference a big difference it's not an identity it's not shaming dave you're shaming people no i'm not your little snowflake i'm shaming your misbehavior there's a a difference. Yeah, you're just laughing from the lessons learned. Yeah. By the way, it's in the past. Ouch, that left a mark. Might as well laugh about it.

And if somebody else can get some, you know, we hear this over and over. Here's why I love the stupid tech stories. In some ways, they're very much like the debt-free screams. You hear caller after caller, people staying on our stage go, I listened, I watched, and I got inspired. Well, when other people hear your stupid tech stories, and they're in the middle of stupid, they're not going to judge themselves as much. They see you on the other side of it laughing. That other guy was stupid, just like me.

And so it's not only entertaining, it is really life-giving. Yeah. It's shame-removing, not shame-giving, for those of you concerned about the shaming issue. Oh, and trust me people are shame on you dave that's a bad word all respect for you dave i'm sorry i wasn't taking a poll okay stupid tech stories we need some stupid tech stories because we're going to start featuring them again here on the air so upcoming segments on stupid tech, I want you to go to RamseySolutions.com slash ask. RamseySolutions.com slash ask, which is actually the portion of the website dedicated to Kelly.

Because people send Kelly messages there, and most of them are nice. And most of the messages she sends back are nice. So it is Kelly. So, yeah, you go to RamseySolutions solutions.com slash ask put stupid tax in the subject line give a little brief description of the time that you paid stupid tax and kelly will contact you she will be nice she will not shame you and she will um laugh with you we will laugh with you not at you and um does she when she reaches out to people they she go hey that really was stupid we'd love to have you on the show that's awesome that is so stupid we need you on the show

i don't know i don't know how she does it we'll have to find out okay so ramsey solutions.com slash ask put stupid text in the subject line and you can be part of the show we'll feature you either as a caller telling your story, or we might even feature it in long form and written. But if you send us like seven-page emails, it doesn't translate to radio. It's not going to make it. It doesn't make it. One page is one minute.

That would be stupid. Well, for different reasons. Yeah. All right, Jake is with us in St. Louis. Jake, welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave. Hey, Ken. How are you doing?

Better than we deserve, brother. How can we help? I had a quick question. So I've been teaching, leading FPU, and I just actually just finished financial coach master training. And I've been telling people for years about HELOCs and stuff that they've been, that are just a credit card attached to your house. Exactly. But I had a quick question. My wife and I were walking into our neighborhood, and one of our neighbors told us, hey, I was looking to move, but housing market's crazy, and my banker told me I have $70,000 of equity.

So I don't know if he did a cash-out refinance or whatever, but instead of buying a new home, he was upgrading his home. And I guess my question is, what is the difference between doing that, as long as you're doing it to actually upgrade your home and just buying a new home and financing all that stuff already in the home well the biggest thing is is these are repairs or updates you should have been doing all along and so they don't come at you at seventy thousand dollars in one bill and if you can do them seventy thousand dollars in one bill you can do them in phases and you can cash flow them and then you don't need to add the debt um obviously you know from

coach master training that even with a mortgage we're going to teach you to get out of the mortgage so we don't want you every time you want a nicer home to move up in home or to renovate your home either one we want you to pay cash for doing either one of those things because ultimately we want to end up being 100 debt free so i would reframe the approach and say um instead of let's figuring out a time that debt is okay let let's always figure out a way to avoid it. And just not even ask the question is my point. So, I mean, your neighbor didn't ask you for coaching or me. But had they asked me for $70,000, I'm going to guess and say he probably could have cash flowed that in 24 months.

Or maybe 36 months and done it in three projects because it's probably not just one thing and um if it is a seventy thousand dollar single improvement that's highly unusual highly unusual now you could do a two hundred thousand dollar addition to a property and that would not be unusual in that case i just personally uh in almost every case and you hear me say that all the time but even when you move you're moving into a better property you're going further into debt now you got to turn around and reverse the process again and start getting out of debt again and so i'm always trying to figure out a way to to stop the borrowing not figuring out a way that it's okay wonder Wonder what conditions is the borrowing okay? Instead of going that way, it's always figure out a way to stop the borrowing.

Because, see, what I did, Jake, as you know, is when I went broke, I vowed I'd never borrow money again. And so this is not an option for me. If I want to upgrade my house, I want to move up in-house, I want to fix something in my house, there's only one method i can use because i'm never going in debt again it's only one method i can use i have to pay cash we're nowadays we got more zeros on some of our projects we're building a conference center on top of the hill here right above this building uh that's about 40 million dollars uh we're about halfway through it a little more than halfway through it um i'm at about 26 million in

right now and uh we got about a year left so that tells me i got about two million bucks a month to cash flow this puppy out the door and we're watching it cash on cash cash on cash cash on cash and i'm from antioch tennessee i don't know where you came from guys but that's a lot of money to me that still freaks me out. You start talking about $2 million for something, you start talking about $2 million a month for something, that just blows my little country mind, I'll tell you. But that's what God has said we're able to do.

We have the money. He's showing us to do it. We're doing it. And we're going to help a lot of people with that conference center, and that's a tool in what we're doing with it. It's not something I'm buying for personal consumption. So, again, if I want a conference center, I've got to rent one. I've got to use something around here and stack chairs too high.

We have to have cubicles that are two stories or something in here until we can afford to do a different building, a better building, because we just don't borrow money. We just took it. You know, Anthony O'Neill used to say it well when he was here as a Ramsey personality. You have to take debt off the table. I never said it that way before him, but it's a good way to remember. Just take debt off the table. So my point is, Jake, not is it okay?

You're probably going to be okay. But we're not trying to get to okay. We're trying to quit borrowing money. That's the new framework on it. So how can we do this and not borrow money? Or maybe we don't do it at all if we can. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, folks. Ken Coleman here. Did you know The Ramsey Show is one of the most popular podcasts in the world? Get your daily dose of advice on life and money.

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