The Ramsey Show - App - Resentment Is the Death of Any Relationship (Hour 1)

Episode Date: January 22, 2021

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studio, this is The Dave Ramsey Show. It's where America hangs out to have a conversation about your life. We talk about your money. We talk about your calling, the work that you were created to do. We talk about your mental, emotional health and your relationships. We talk about it all. It is life because it's real and it's right there in front of you and you've got two options. You either participate or you shrink back and sit on the sidelines.

I'm Ken Coleman, host of The Ken Coleman Show, which is a part of the Ramsey Solutions Network. I am a Ramsey personality. I co-host the show on a regular basis with Dave, and I'm joined by my colleague, John Deloney, host of the Dr. John Deloney Show on the Ramsey Solutions Network, and he is, of course, a Ramsey personality and a frequent co-host of the show. So if you are new to the Dave Ramsey Show, and thus new to us, let John and I just tell you that we're excited to be together. Now, just a quick intro here on what I do and what John does. I'm focused on calling career your work, work that matters.

Simply put, I believe that you were created to fill a unique role in your work and through your work. That means you are tremendously needed. But then, John, it also means that you've got to do it. Because see, purposeful work isn't about us. It's not about money and notoriety and fame and power. It's about the contribution that we were created to make. And so our purpose is actually not about us. It's about others. It's always about others. And so we've got this weird view of work, John, here at Ramsey Solutions. Most of the world thinks that you work to live, to get a paycheck, to be able to pay the bills.

If there's a little left over, make some memories. But we believe that we were created to work. Now, we're not talking about created to be a workaholic and put all of your identity in your work at college. That's not what we're saying. We are saying that you were created to contribute to this world through the talent you have, what you do best, through passion, which is the actual love of the work. Those of you who love to work with your hands and create something, that's a gift to the world. And then to create a result from that work that matters to you because you see the direct contribution. So that's what we think.

So that's what I focus on. And then, John, you focus on the mental, the emotional health, relationships, because if you look at purpose, I think it's two buckets, and you and I cover both of them. Right. One is I've got a purpose to be who I'm supposed to be in my relationships and also in my work. You cover the relationships and the human aspect. Talk a little bit about your philosophy and your methodology. I think, I mean, you nailed it.

You can't go through life alone. And you and I have, we've grown up in an ethos that is, this is all about you. Figure it out yourself. Do it yourself. Accomplish yourself. And your happiness and your joy and your soul and your completion

exist out there, right? If you can just go achieve it, you'll sleep well. Right? And if you can do it by yourself, you should do it by yourself. You don't need other people. We don't need other people. And those two things, just from a biochemistry perspective, is wrong. Yeah.

It's just deceitful. That's right. We were made to work hard. And made to connect. We were made to connect big time. And without those two things, every alarm system we have goes off, every inflammation response we have goes off, and we find ourselves spinning and achieving and numbing and look around, man. We're seeing 50 or 100 years of go achieve your way to it, distract your way to it, and then here we are. That's it so john you also

know this that when you're not happy in your work life and you don't see that connection to what am i supposed to contribute to this world that can begin to affect all of your relationships that's everything that's where it's so and vice versa when you're not when me and my wife aren't whole at home yes when i have not been a good parent at home. You can't be all you're supposed to be in the office. Absolutely not. Right? It works together.

It does. And so John and I work together. We've done a couple of Ken Coleman shows where I'll bring John in and we'll take, hey, all right, you've got some toxic workplace stuff going on. And hello, I'm talking to three-quarters of the world. So today we're going to take money questions, but we're also going to take your questions about relationships in your home or in the workplace. You've got a toxic leader. John and I love to tag team those, okay, because there's a dual response there. So if you're just miserable at work, miserable at home, this is your show. And I'm going to say this.

You know, Zach Bennett's sitting in for Kelly Daniel today, he'll change your name. We'll change the location for where you're calling. I want, John, for people to feel safe today to go, you know what, I'm a phone call away from getting some clarity on what I need to do to get out of the rut, the hole that I'm in. They're one phone call away. That's right.

And one step further, we're that I'm in. They're one phone call away. That's right. And one step further, we're in a moment in history where everybody is on edge. Everybody. Oh, yeah. Triggered. Just on edge, right? And here's the thing. I talked about it on my show this morning,

and I'll continue to beat this drum. When you are on edge, this is not myth. This is not fantasy. When you are on edge, when you feel like you are not safe someone's taking something from you your amygdala literally turns off your frontal lobe because it doesn't want you sitting at the in the cave going is that a nice tiger a sweet tiger it just wants you to run man it just wants you to fight and so if you woke up this morning angry if um you woke up

this morning in a state of what is happening for my family what is happening for my country what is that yeah call us can i even pursue my dream can i even have a dream we got a different president in and we got a different what is that could affect my purpose in my future can i even and it's like hey let's take it to my family. Call me. Tell you something else. I want to put the call out for those of you who are hurting from being out of work for a long time. Let's not forget that when COVID-19 hit, it wrecked people's lives.

Sideways. John sent me something this weekend. I haven't even told James this. So, James, I'm having coffee Saturday morning. And sitting there, a text pops up from Dr. John Deloney. I'm like, oh. And this is what he sent me. He was doing some research.

And there's a guy by the name of Andrew Oswald. I'm just going to tee you up on this. Yeah. Who is an economist at the University of Warwick in the UK, and basically says that no other circumstance produces a larger decline in mental health and well-being than being involuntarily, so laid off, furloughed, out of work, so nothing is producing a larger decline in mental health and well-being than being involuntarily out of work for six months or more. Listen to this, John.

This blew me away. It is the worst thing that can happen, he says, equivalent to the death of a spouse. And this is a direct quote, a kind of bereavement in its own right. So, John, you and I do combine forces on this. This is a seriously traumatic event if If you're out of work. Or in work that you hate. Right. Or when you are working for somebody else's

pleasure. You're not working to help somebody, right? You're working for somebody else's flourishing, right? You know, you and I, we've talked about this privately. When our friend Mike Rowe was here this summer. And he mentioned something that I'd never thought of, that when we told 30 million Americans, y'all are essential, we told 300 other million Americans, you know what?

Y'all just go home. That's exactly right. We don't need you. We'll just send you a check. Yes. And when you read that research, we basically told everybody, listen, y'all have less value. That's it. Just go home.

We'll mail you money. We don't need you. And that set off a chemical storm in our hearts and minds that have made us depressed. Not to mention four or five decades of messaging that says if you don't go to college, you're a second-class citizen. All the citizenry. If you go into the trades, you're a loser. You're a loser. So here's the deal.

888-825-5225. Remember it. 888-825-5225. Remember it. 888-825-5225. Phone lines are open. John and I are coming right back, and we're going to help you. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. I heard a statistic recently that absolutely blew my mind. In the U.S. alone, over 3,000 people die every day without life insurance.

Now, I don't want to sound unsympathetic, but this drives me crazy. What are people thinking? I don't understand how taking care of your family is not a top priority. Most of you probably just spent a bundle on Christmas on things you really didn't even need. And now you're making New Year's resolutions that are focused on yourself. But if you want to use the New Year as a reason to do something right, protecting your family then take care of it right now before it's too late term life insurance is something every family needs and that's why i talk about it every day it's not complicated it's not expensive and zander insurance is the only place i recommend go to zander.com or call them at 800-356-4282.

Please learn from other people's mistakes and get this taken care of. That's Zander.com or 800-356-4282. Welcome back, America. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Ken Coleman and Dr. John Deloney taking you through this hour. We are the Ramsey personalities that focus on calling, career, work that matters, and mental, emotional, relationship, health. John, we put the word out in the first segment, and boy, oh, boy. Lit them up, man.

We rang the bell. People are needing some help. So, hey, we're really excited. Now, we're still going to take your money calls. I was telling Jeremy Breland, who leads all of the personalities, I said, yeah, Deloney and I are hosting the Dave Ramsey Show, first hour here, and, boy, we're going to take some money questions. I don't know how good the answers are going to be.

Sell the truck, man. Sell the truck. Yes. Worst case scenario, sell it. You can never go wrong with that. If you are about to call with a question like, hey, man, I got this truck, we're just going to tell you to sell it.

It's pretty much the extent of our knowledge. Keep the phone lines open, please, because we're going to tell you to sell the truck. I love that. All right. Good stuff. All right. 888-825-525. Excuse me. 888-825-525. 8 to tell you to sell the truck. I love that. All right. Good stuff. All right. 888-825-525.

Excuse me. 5225. I skipped a two. 888-825-5225. Phone lines are open. And we're going to start it off with Patty, who's joining us in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Patty, how can we help? Hi.

Hi. Thank you. Good to talk with you, gentlemen. Good to talk to you. I work for a small company. It's a landscaping construction company. I'm the business manager, office manager, everything. I'm in a position where the owner really relies on me to make some pretty significant financial decisions and operational decisions. He's very good at his craft, but not very good at his business. And I'm really starting to resent that I'm put in that position. I can do it.

I have the training to do it, but I don't think he really understands the importance of what he's asking me to do. I'm feeling resentful, and I'm feeling like I'm really getting tired of it. Oh. All right, so I'm going to let John jump in on the feelings of resentment, but I do want to know a little bit of background on this. Have you talked to him about this to say, hey, you're asking me to do some pretty heavy-duty stuff,

and I just want to make sure you understand that what you're asking me to do makes you really, really hands-off, and this is what I'm feeling about this. Have you had that conversation with him? I've had the conversation that asking him, you know, does he understand that he's asking me to make some pretty significant decisions. I've not delved into the feeling part of it as yet. Beneath your question is a value question.

Yes. Just listening to you, it seems like this guy trusts you a lot. It seems like he really cares about you and has said, man, here's the keys to the kingdom. There's something about you that doesn't sit well with you. Is he not compensating you enough? Is it because, hey, I don't want to run a business. I don't mind running the books. What's the value question?

What's the value concern here? He definitely does trust me, and I do appreciate that. I know that he cares for me. Because sometimes, frequently, when I give him an answer or a suggestion that he doesn't want to hear, like, I want to buy this very expensive item. What do you think? And I say, I think that we do not have the money for it, and this is why. And then he kind of acts like a little boy whose mom just told him no and that's getting old yeah yeah so i got a quick question let me

jump in is there also a sense of pressure that you feel he's putting you under he's asking because you've touched on it twice and i feel like maybe you've got some fear there. Like, this guy's asking me to make some huge decisions, and it's not my company. I don't like feeling that way. Is that also going on? I don't have a whole lot of fear around that because I'm pretty sure I won't get myself in trouble. I know when to say no. All right. But he loves to, when he asks you to do something and it works, he loves taking credit for those moments.

But if he asks you to buy something you all can't afford and you tell him no, he does a temper tantrum. Or if you buy it and you look squeezed at the end of the month, he blames you for being inept, right? Well, he doesn't really blame me, but there's a lot of unsaid words and a lot of energy floating around in the office that I would rather not have floating around the office. There you go. So whenever I hear the word resentment in a relationship, resentment is a product of comparison. I'm doing more than you. I'm carrying more than you. It happens a lot in marriages.

I do the dishes. I do the this. I take care of the baby. And what I'll tell you is this. Once you get to resentment, resentment is the death. It is the death trajectory of any relationship in the world. And so what I'll tell you is resentment's often a choice, and you have a lot of control over this.

It could be your choice is, I don't want this life. I don't want this job. I don't want this pressure. I'm going to let him know in a controlled, planned conversation, not in a fight. Hey, I'm just got, I'm uncomfortable now. I don't want to do this. If you're going to keep asking me to run your business, I don't want to be a CEO. I just want to run books. And I promise you, you're going to find somebody in town that would love to have an ethical, great bookkeeper. that person will exist or you sit down and say i'm gonna stop resenting him he trusts me and loves me he's immature and you have to line up

boss after boss in america under that label right yeah i'm gonna choose to not be resentful because i'm poisoning myself hoping he's gonna die that's right because he's probably not going to change and i think that patty what you need to understand understand is you have yet to share with him your real emotions. And I think because you guys have such a great relationship, because he trusts you so much, that if you handle this in the right posture, just say, hey, can I tell you what's been going on behind the scenes? You asked me to guard this company. I feel like I'm the chief guardian, and I love it. And I'm not going to blow it or screw up. But when I do what you actually want me to do on your best interest and you kind of get mad and kind of create this tension between us, it puts me in a really resentful mode because I'm actually doing the thing for you that you want me to do and I actually love to do.

And I'm the most fierce protector of you in this company. Do you understand how that makes me feel? I think you owe him that conversation. A hard conversation. you in this company. Do you understand how that makes me feel? I think you owe him that conversation because I think if he hears it in the spirit of humility to go, oh, wow, Patty really does have my back and I am acting like a seven-year-old boy who had his fire truck taken away. Oh, okay. What we get to see right there, Patty, is you get to see, oh, okay, he's willing to try and that will also help with what John's saying, where you've got to expect it and deflect it.

And decide I'm not going to be resentful. And that goes to an employee, that goes to a spouse. And here's the thing, and I'm going to say it again, don't wait until he comes in and says, hey, I want to buy all new mowers. We're buying all new mowers. And that be the moment you snap. And you say, we can't afford that.

And he says, ah, I figured it out. And then you blow up on him you got to say hey on friday at noon i want to order in lunch i just want to talk about the state of the company let's plan on i want to tell you some things have been on my heart and mind give him some preparation for it and same as you don't yell at your spouse you know when the dishes aren't done you figure it out that night everybody be mature, and then that weekend you say, hey, we just need to talk. Here's the good news,

the silver lining for this, Patty, and John, I heard this. It doesn't sound like he's overruling her. It just sounds like he gets a little pouty and he gets upset because she said he couldn't have his toy. So the fact that he's not overruling you and running the business in the ground,

we heard no evidence of that. It's not happening. And he's not unethical. He's not. So she's got to go, okay, I've just got to be okay that he's immature on this, and I'm not going to be able to make those changes for him. He's going to have to do that. By being honest with him and sharing this with him in a safe way,

not a complaining, attacking way. A hospitable way. A hospitable way is a good way to say that. Then we've got a chance. But even if he doesn't fully ever way is a good way to say that. Then we got a chance. But even if he doesn't fully ever turn the corner, then she's got a choice to make, right? That's what I mean by expect it and deflect it. Oh, boy, he wants this brand-new shiny thing,

and we just can't afford it. Wah, wah. And then I'm going to move on. He's going to gripe about a little bit, but what's his pattern? Oh, he kind of doesn't talk to you for two days, and then he really needs me, and all of a sudden he gets an infusion of good attitude, and we're going to be okay.

And that's where, John, you experience this more on your show, but difficult people exist, and sometimes we're the difficult people, and we can't just decide to quit, because sometimes the people we have to work with can sometimes step on our toes or be obnoxious or obtrusive or whatever. We've got to learn how to be big boys and big girls. I think we all have those moments. Of course we do. When I'm the big kid and then there's the time I'm the whiny brat.

Of course we do. And all of us have that. Yes. And if I can recognize, ooh, I'm entering into whiny brat season, I need to shut up. All right. Look what we've got coming up next segment. Uh-oh, Mary's on the line, and she's got a question about navigating political conflicts in the family.

Well, that doesn't affect anybody else, but we'll still try to help her. I have a Mary in my family. We're diving into that stuff next. This is good radio. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. Ken Coleman and Dr. John Deloney with you on The Dave Ramsey Show, 888-825-5225, 888-825-5225. Taking your calls about your life and your money and also what John and I specialize on.

Are you just sick and tired of your job? Monday mornings are nothing more than sheer misery for you. As soon as you get in the car to head to work, you're struggling emotionally, struggling with mental health, relationship issues in your life, or at the office. John and I are going to take those calls. That's where we specialize. 888-825-5225. All right, here we go. I teased it. Mary's calling in from St. Louis. Got some political conflicts and stress in the family. Mary, tell us about it. Hi, Dr. D and Ken. I'm so grateful for you guys. Dr. D, you've been giving us tons of great advice about how to handle conflicts stemming from political tensions.

It's been so helpful. I'm not super great with it, as you can see, right? John and I fight about politics every day in the office. That's what he's not telling you. That's right. Well, it's been better than nothing. Well, I appreciate it. You're a kind, kind person. Thank you.

Thanks. So yesterday, Dave made a funny comment about the advice being great, assuming the other person that you're dealing with wasn't mentally ill. But what if that person does have a history of mental illness and emotional problems and boundary issues? Can you please throw out some healthy ways and exit strategies to end politically divisive interrogation? And yes, for me, it has been interrogation. And could you please share some handy phrases that could excuse yourself from even going there?

I want to live out Proverbs 15.1, which says, A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger. Man, that's such a great question. There's a couple of things globally here. One is, yeah, I actually talked to somebody today. Dave and I yesterday were, the call Mary's referring to is, Dave and I yesterday talked about an Instagram post. I don't watch the news, Ken.

You know this. Y'all give me a hard time back there that I'm more interested in local stuff and what's in people's hearts and minds and not on TV. And I posted something with the word unity in it. And you would have thought, man, I was the second. It was wild stuff. I learned all about myself. I learned more about myself from the Internet's comments. Yes.

And Dave and I were talking about it on the air. He said, man, I didn't know you were a liberal. I had to find out on Instagram. And I said, Dave, I told you I was a liberal in my interview. And we were laughing, carrying on, being silly. And we got to laughing about, man, if people have mental illness, they're not going to hear you. And you know what? I shouldn't have been laughing about that because there's folks like Mary.

There's folks like me. There's folks like millions of people who's got people that actually struggle with mental health issues. It's not something to make fun of. Dave and I were having a good time, but I think you're right, Mary. And I think you treat this the same as you treat any hard conversation with somebody who believes something different than you, which is compassion, and you just decide to not go to war. If somebody wants to interrogate you, you do have permission, whether they have mental health issues, whether they have any sort of challenges with communication, you have

a right to be safe, and you have a right to your boundaries. And I often will tell folks, mental health responses, mental health challenges are context, not an excuse. Just because somebody has a mental health issue does not give them permission to treat you poorly, to interrogate you, to beat you up, to be ugly to you, or anything like that. And so when somebody does, and I've got this in my family, when somebody comes at you with, can you believe i will stop and say hey we're not talking politics here not gonna do that today i'm not gonna have this conversation i do though i want to hear about how little suzy's doing i want to hear how your job is going um or let's just hug we're not gonna do it and i'm silly about it in my house because i'll say hey we're just gonna hug it out but i i don't engage with conversations with people who are not interested in listening

to me. That's the way I navigate it. That's why I like talking with you, Ken, because you hear different conversations. I hear different conversations. The thing I like about you, Ken, is that nobody knows where we're ever going to land on anything, and that makes my heart feel good. How do you approach that conversation? I think very similar to what you're saying.

I think that she's thinking, how do I say it in a very kind, gentle way, you know, instead of the hard, you know, Heisman Trophy stance. You know, stop! We're not doing that, because that can also put you in a tough situation, and I think it's a preemptive strike. I think in her situation, it's a sit down and go, hey, I love you deeply, and I know you like to talk about this stuff, but I actually

don't like to talk about it. Not because I disagree with you, or I think that you're wrong. It just makes me uncomfortable, and I would just prefer that we don't do it. So I just want you to know ahead of time, it's not anything that you've done. It's not you. It's me. I'm just not comfortable. I'm doing this in other areas of my life, and it's just nobody's ever going to see eye

to eye, and neither one of us are going to solve actually any major national problems or local actual policy problems by fighting amongst ourselves. And so I just think for our relationship, and this is me, my standard, not yours. I don't want you to feel bad about talking about it. You can talk about it around me and I'm not going to interject and I'm not going to debate you. But if you don't mind, I just want to create a thing where we're just going to talk about it.

And I think I'd be preemptive there so that we put a boundary up before it happens in the moment. For Thanksgiving and for Christmas, we had people come for Christmas, and I actually sent an email out and said, here's the topics we are not going to discuss. Yeah, that's a preemptive strategy. I put it out there, right? I like that. And we had a great time. Yeah.

And a couple of times it started to kind of eke into there. There were some hands put up. Yeah. Like, we're not doing that. Yeah. And a couple of times it started to kind of eke into there. There were some hands put up. Yeah. Like, we're not doing that. Yeah. Because I love you, and if we can't be civil about it, I'm not well, you're not well, whatever the consequence, let's just don't do it. Yeah.

And I think, you know, I don't think I've ever talked about this on the show, so this is kind of fun. And I think what I want the audience to know is that I used to be in politics full time. What? You knew this. No, I didn't. You didn't know this? No.

Yeah, I worked on a congressional race at the age of 19. Oh, my life just got so much more fun. In 1994. And then I was working for the governor of Virginia at the age of 22. Okay. So I was a special assistant to Governor Jim Gilmore. And so there was a season in my life where I thought I was called to politics. I had a career and calling crisis in my early 30s because I lost the taste for it.

Gotcha. I was irritated with both sides of the aisle. So don't anybody doing a bunch of guesswork and send me emails. Which, by the way, I don't read any emails that are negative. So if I say something right now that somehow offends you, you can email. I'm never going to read it. So spare yourself. I will. Send it to me. You enjoy that kind can email. I'm never going to read it, so spare yourself. I will.

Send it to me. You enjoy that kind of stuff. Yeah. But here's what I found out. I lost the fire in the belly. I lost the passion for the work and the results of the mission. That career crisis is now what informs all the work that I do. So you didn't know any of that, but here's my point.

Having worked in politics and being a guy who, though I no longer work in it and I don't want to work in it, and by the way, I don't want to return to it either, so I'm just going to make that announcement. I have learned a really clear lesson that I think would help us all when it comes to political talk and coworkers and family and friends. I have never one time, John, in a debate with a family member, a friend or a co-worker, I have never one time changed their mind. You didn't argue someone into submission? No. Never once did the end of a political debate, even if it was not nasty, and I don't really have nasty ones. But never one time have I had a political discussion with somebody who's on the opposite end of the spectrum or completely on the other side of an issue and not one time have they went ken boy i tell you what i made my points and

i really really believe my points but after you made your points i gotta tell you i see it exactly the way you see it thank you ken for enlightening me and setting me on the right path does that ever happen for you zero Zero times. So therefore, I've never Twitter-responsed or Facebook-responded to change somebody's mind. Yeah. But I will tell you this. At my house,

I've had people spend the night at my house that would have made Bernie Sanders go, whoa, that's pretty far over there. Yeah. And I've had people spend the night at my house

that Trump would have been like, eh, it's probably a little bit too far to the right for you. Let's all bring it back a little bit. Everyone's welcome at my table. Yeah. And we're going to serve food together. Yeah. And we're going to talk and we're going to figure some of this out.

Somebody, an astute listener of the Dave Ramsey show, one time wrote in and said, I get the sense that you and Dave think differently on some things. And we talked about it. And I said, yep. We have very, very matching boundaries. I mean values. We want to help people.

We love people. We care about our faith. We care about our families. We have different beliefs. And that's beautiful because our values are together. And Dave wants to help somebody, and sometimes he wants to help them by letting them have it and I want to help them by hugging them up. Our beliefs are going to change and if I do the hard work of

reading and learning and listening, my beliefs are going to change all over my lifetime and I hope they do. But my values are going to be rooted and anchored in. And I think if we did this value belief work across the country, you'd see a connection happen from the floor up, man. Let me remind everybody of something I say on the Ken Coleman show all the time. The one thing that every human being on the planet can unify around,

and there might be more than one thing, but one thing for sure. Oh, I'm going to use it. You know what we can be unified around? Is that we all want to make a difference in this world. We want to make a difference. Let's be about that. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman, joined by my colleague, Dr. John Deloney, taking your calls, 888-825-225.

Before we go back to the phones, let's take a pause here and remember that 2020 was really wacky. And your 2020 taxes may be a bit more complicated because of it. So if you drew unemployment at any point this year, keep in mind you may have to pay taxes on it this year. Unemployment checks are taxable income. Another big thing to keep in mind is remote working. If you left your resident state to work remotely from another state, you may have to pay state taxes to two states. So the point is a lot changed, and it may have changed your taxes.

So if you're unsure if 2020 has made your taxes different, take our tax quiz. This will give you some peace of mind so you know what you're facing and then what you need to do. Text the phrase tax quiz, so those two words, no spaces, tax quiz. Text that to 33789 to find out what your tax situation really looks like. TaxQuiz, text that phrase with no space to 33789. 888-825-5225 is the number. Let's go to Knoxville, Tennessee, where Jack joins us. Jack, how can we help?

Yeah, I was calling in today to ask you all what you do about the situation I'm in. I've got a job well i've got three jobs actually but i really my full-time job i work for the united states government and uh i really love what i do but i hate i don't hate the people i work with but they make my job miserable oh my what do you man? So I work for the United States Geological Survey and just measure rivers and creeks and lakes and manage the water for geoscience. So it sounds like you're out of the office a good bit, yes or no? Yes. Oh, yeah.

So tell me how your coworkers are making you miserable. I want to know the specifics. Well, I guess every morning when you go into work, you go into the office, get your work truck, get all your stuff ready to go out for the day. You're like, oh, so there's only three of us that work in my office, me and two other guys. And one of them is kind of the head guy, and he's like, oh, what are you going to get done today? Make your job. He put so much on you that there's no way that you can get it done in eight to ten hours. I mean, I may be getting a little touch of burnout,

and it may be because of him or them. Is he penalizing you when he gives you that much work to do? Are you having to work longer than 8 to 10 hours a day to get it done, or are you going home at normal time and you're not getting it done and he's busting your chops about it? What's going on? I'm just working longer than 8 to 10 hours, whatever it takes to get the job done, and then going home and spending the rest of the time with my family.

Well, you've got two other jobs. Yeah. So you love the work. You love the work itself. I love what I do. Yeah, yeah. So have you talked to this leader to say, hey, the stuff you're piling on me, I can't get it all done in a day, and are you aware that I'm working this many hours, but I'm not getting overtime?

Yeah. I can't get it all done in a day, and are you aware that I'm working this many hours, but I'm not getting overtime? Yeah, and he's kind of like, well, this job comes first. You know what needs to be done. All right, so here's the thing. So the way I describe your situation, Jack, on the Ken Coleman Show is you're doing the right thing in the wrong place. You've got an unhealthy leader. It's become a toxic work environment. And there is little to no hope that that's going to change.

You've had the conversation. He's kind of like, tough. Go pound sand. And so now you resent the very existence of the guy. And we don't even need to dive into whatever guy number two's doing that's making you so miserable.

So the good news here is you know what the work is that you love, and so now we've got to be a big boy and we've got to go, all right, can I walk away from this thing right now? Am I that miserable? And if I can't put up with it any longer, can I walk away from it financially? If the answer's no, the answer is you can't put up with a little bit longer you're a tough guy you can bite the stick you can be the bigger man but you need to start looking today and the good news is you know the kind of work that you want to do so now starting as soon as you hang up this phone call you've got to start looking for that work

somewhere else and you go okay i know the kind of work i love and this is an exercise john where again you know jack can just sit down with a pencil and paper like i've got right here and go okay what are all the things i love about this job well i love this this this this and this and and so we we already know that he loves it but we want to get real specific and those become the menu items if you will as you begin to look you know if you pull a recipe you know i love to cook kind of for fun and i always love getting the recipe card, getting out and going, what all's in this? Well, that's what we're looking for.

What are the ingredients to this job that he loves? And now we're going to go look for that. And the good news is we can find that. Now we know what a toxic environment is like, and so this is what a lot of people don't do. In the research process for new jobs or a different job or in the interview process, you have got to look for the signs that you're very acutely aware of.

And so you ask the kind of question, what's it like here? How do you handle workload? How do you handle feedback? He knows now what he wants. He's got to match it up in the marketplace. And so that's the steps he needs to take. Guy's working three jobs. This is going to eat him alive if he doesn't get out of there.

That's exactly right. And I'd love to see him. There is a market for guys who will work beyond eight to ten hours because that's the right thing to do. And I'm going to get this job done because I'm a person of excellence and I'm a hard worker. That guy's going to find work. That's right. And I'd love to see him have one job that he's getting paid what he's worth, that he's putting in hard work.

He goes home tired and then he can spend the rest of that energy and focus on his family. You can tell he loves them. He loves them, yeah. And man, if we had more people that just wanted to cut out the nonsense and we just wanted to go to work and we're going to work our butts off and go home tired, I don't want the drama. Let's just get it done. Man. work and we're going to work our butts off and go home tired. I don't want the drama. Let's just get it done.

Man. Well, this case, folks, listen in. Jack's situation is half of the equation of why so many people are unhappy at work. Pre-COVID, the number was 68% of Americans were unhappy at their work. The number was 80% internationally. This is pre-COVID. And there's two major reasons for that. Number one, you're not in your sweet spot, which I teach is where you're using your talent,

what you do best to do work you love, your passion, to produce results that matter deeply to you. That's your mission. So people aren't in their sweet spot. Of course, it becomes just this utilitarian function, and it slowly just beats the death out. It just beats you to death because you're like, there's no meaning to this work for me. But the other reason, John, is poor leadership like we see here. Here's a guy who should be looking at Jack going,

this dude is working long, crazy hours to get the job done that I've poured on top of him. In the cold, in the heat. In the cold, the heat. Yeah, being away from his family. He's working two other jobs. And this guy's just like, tough, man. This is your priority.

As opposed to going, wait a second. We got work to do. We're a small team of three. How do I help Jack not actually begin to feel burned out? Right. But this leader is so pathetic. Yeah. I mean, pathetic.

And by the way, this goes from poor leadership where you're not exhibiting the characteristics and you're not good at your job to then it becomes borderline abusive. You're going, okay, Ken, relax. No. Because you as a leader, as a boss, hold over top of people maybe one of the most powerful extrinsic motivators there is, and that's the ability to fire them. Well, and their livelihood. As we talked about earlier. That can be abusive.

It's also holding over them a core psychological component of their wellness. Yes. Their purpose and work. Yes. And their food on their family's plate. Yes. And their role. Yes. Their purpose and work. Yes. And their food on their family's plate. Yes. And their role. And, and, and.

The ability to provide and then the ability to contribute. Yes. And leaders, stop. Stop this. I mean, get help. Goodness gracious. There's a reason why we've got the Entree Leadership Division here at Ramsey Solutions. The reason we do the Entree Leadership Program, there are books that you can read.

You can actually build your leadership skill. You can be a zero on a scale of one to ten, and you can actually learn how to lead. But, John, this is a massive problem around the world. Absolutely. It's poor leadership. And we've got, we're in a season now, we've got to have leaders stepping up all over the place, from janitorial staff to CEOs and everybody

in between. We've got to start doing things the right way. Alright folks, I can't believe it. An hour down, we've got to go. We had too much fun. I want to thank our producer, James Childs. Zach Bennett sitting in for Kelly Daniel today as our associate producer and call screener. I want to thank my pal, Dr. John Deloney.

And we want to thank you, America. I'm Ken Coleman, and this is The Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, it's Kelly, associate producer and phone screener for The Dave Ramsey Show. If you would like to do your debt-free scream live on the show, make sure you visit DaveRamsey.com slash show and register. We would love for you to come to Nashville and tell Dave your story.