The Ramsey Show - App - Rethinking Your Goals When the Numbers Don't Work (Hour 1)

Episode Date: April 2, 2019

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Music Music Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions Broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I am Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us. We're glad you're here. People are asking, and I forget that everybody doesn't listen every day,

and so it messes me up, why we have a dollar car rental studio. Well, the short version of the story is I was on here ranting about car rental places mistreating debit card users, treating debit card users like a second-class citizen. And the Dollar Car Rental chief marketing officer, CMO's husband, was listening. And he texted her and he goes, hey, Dave Ramsey's saying he could send you a bunch of business if you guys would treat debit card users like human beings. And so Dollar got in touch with us, and we had some great talks.

And, you know, if you're 20 years old, you have $200 in the bank for an incidental hold, which always happens with a debit card, right? You can reserve your Dollar car rental and just walk up there and do it, you know. And what I would do is just go to the Dollar Express rewards and sign up for that at dollar.com slash Ramsey. And then, you know, before you travel, and then you can just walk straight to your car with your debit card. And so, woo-hoo, touchdown. Somebody actually heard us. And not only that, they have such a cool culture at dollar that they were able to not only hear us but react and so over the last year we've become friends since that phone call and um they sponsor our studio now and we tell all of you to use dollar car rental

because they treat us debit card users like we're not drug dealers or something. Oh, my gosh, they want your firstborn in a freaking vault at some of these places. It's ridiculous. So, no, you go in there and you get treated nice. And here me tell you what's happened, too. Some of the debt-free screamers are flying into Nashville, and the dollar car rental counter celebrates them when they walk up to the counter. They've got balloons and stuff.

One day, they just gave them the car for free to use. That was pretty cool. And so they're becoming very quickly a part of our family and a part of your family because you're part of our family. And I know it's a big family, and there's problems in every family. Well, we're getting a little too far now but anyway yeah so if you're renting a car you're going to travel dollar car rental takes debit cards and just go to their website and go ahead and sign up for the express rewards program and that just allows you to walk straight to the car and so it's like man wow wonderful wonderful wonderful that's why

it's there priscilla is with us in san jose california hey priscilla what's up in your world hi dave thank you for taking my call sure okay um so um we're in a situation right now um we're halfway through baby step three and um my husband commutes from the Bay Area, and we've been doing that for eight years now. We've had two children since then, and I'm tired of it, and I want to move back. So I know for him it's really nerve-wracking, and it is for me as well, to sell our home. We have to sell it anyways to downsize from what he's bringing in now. Overtime has dried up.

He was making $125 when we were doing the baby steps, and now he's down to probably bringing home about $73,000. So we know that our home is too expensive. Our payment is $2,400 a month. And in talking to him, I was telling him I really would like to move back to the Bay Area, and he was thinking maybe we could purchase a mobile home. And I said, I don't think Dave would like to move back to the Bay Area. And he was thinking maybe we can purchase a mobile home. And I said, I don't think they would like that. And to me, dumping all of that in a mobile home,

I feel like that's what we're doing. We're going to lose all of the, I believe we can sell our home for about $600,000. And we owe $375,000 about right now. So I'm thinking we'll take home, take from that about $200,000. But I know it's really nervous. It's making us both nervous.

Well, it's not really going to do what Dave would like because I'm not going to live there. You are. Okay? So what I like doesn't matter. The only reason I would have an opinion about this is what's good for you. And mobile homes go down in value. Why would you buy something that goes down in value? They're basically a car you sleep in from a financial standpoint.

So why would you do that? That's just kind of dumb. Yeah. It sounds desperate. The space rent over there is anywhere from $1,600 to $2,000. So that's what I was thinking. We have it paid off, but we still have rent. There's all kinds of parts of this plan I don't like for you,

mobile home being the first thing. But I'm not sure you can afford to live there with this income. Yeah, and the whole thing was I told them the plan that I had was I'm going to be going to school, and it would be easier if he's right next to his job. And I was looking. I know rent over there is about $3,000 a month. So in San Jose, how much of a commuter has he got? About an hour.

So he leaves home, yeah, so it's three hours in total. Okay. And what does he do for a living? He is a mechanical assembler for a defense company, Northrop Grumman. Okay. All right. I'm just wondering, I mean, you just, for a defense company, Northrop Grumman. Okay. All right. I'm just wondering, I mean, you just,

what you're describing is not going to allow you to live in the Bay Area. Uh-huh. You don't make $60,000 a year to live on Manhattan. You just don't. I mean, not without weird stuff. Maybe as a single person, you know, in a 200-square-foot studio apartment, but you have a family. Yes. And, you know, in a 200-square-foot studio apartment, but you have a family. Yes. And, you know, these numbers just don't work.

So you're going to have to rethink maybe a lot of things here. Getting rid of the commute, I agree with. Moving into a trailer is not a good plan, and moving into rental that you can't afford from a home you can't afford doesn't make any sense either. Right? Yes, that's right. And he was thinking we could purchase another home here in Tracy.

And I'm thinking I could probably do that for two more years, but I'd still have to go to school. And that's the thing is him, you know, with us working that out. You're going to school to go back into the job market? Yes, my daughter is going to be starting kindergarten. So I want to go back into the workforce and i want to um looking into becoming an rn and you're an lpn now no no no i'm gonna stay at home right now okay at home mom okay so do you have a degree at all no i don't okay all right okay well nursing is a wonderful field to move into. I'm kind of wondering if you need more of an upheaval than we're talking about,

like a whole different area of the state or the country to live in. Yes, I've talked about that as well. We just don't know where to go. I don't either. But it might be like where he could land a good job and where you can get into an inexpensive nursing school and we reset our lives. But, you know, Bay Area is wonderful. It's a wonderful place to live.

I enjoy visiting there, and people are nice, and it's scenic, and it's just. But very, very difficult to pull that off with a family while you go to school, you know, on $60,000 a year. It's just the math doesn't work much and san jose is not a lot better uh as you're finding out i mean hanging out there on the edge of silicon valley you know run prices up you know so i i don't know i i do agree with you that something needs to give to hit these things and sometimes hitting your goals it's not about what you're willing to do it's what you're willing to give up more than what you're willing to do. So it might be that we go on a three-year family adventure and live in XYZ to pull that off.

And that involves career changes for both of you. Something to think about. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. Pure Talk USA offers smarter wireless with unlimited plans starting as low as $20 per month. You never pay data overage fees, and we never turn off your data. No contracts, no hidden fees, and if you're thinking our low cost means less coverage, think again. Our voice and data service covers 99% of Americans, and our 4G LTE network provides the fastest internet speeds like more expensive carriers. We operate on the largest GSM network in the U.S. to ensure you receive reliable coverage virtually anytime,

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In a culture that doesn't even know how to spell the word. Contentment. I know. Yeah. Well, it's such a big word, and I feel like it's one that you throw around a lot, and you're like, man, I'd love to be content. Right? Like, it's just like, it's like one of those words that you're like, oh, I wish I could embody that on a daily basis. Because you know people that are content in life and they're more joyous people. They seem confident. They seem settled. They're not just chasing the next great thing constantly

over and over again. And so contentment, it is. It's a hard thing to grasp and a hard thing to practice in our world today. And like social media and just having access to other people's lives 24-7. It's exhausting. It really is. I just flew in this morning from Kansas City, you know, and I land in Nashville. And what do I do? I go check email and I go check Instagram. And I'm like, it's just like a part of our world now.

And you just have to be careful because it's so easy to get caught in the comparison trap. And that leads you down a road of discontentment and so i've just realized how much we are flooded and the messages are bombarded of what other people have and what other people are doing the success other people are experiencing that you may not be and it's just it's constant so i'm like oh i just want to break the cycle and learn to practice contentment so how do you do that and so i learned and really we kind of talked about this last week but it's true like when we wrote to break the cycle and learn to practice contentment. So how do you do that? And so I learned, and really, we kind of talked about this last week, but it's true. Like when we wrote Smart Money, Smart Kids, we dove into this. And then with Love Your Life, Not There is my last book,

diving even deeper into it, but realizing that it's a progression. It's not something that you can just like automatically just embody. You know, you're like, I want to be content. Okay, I'm content. There really are these steps almost. And so figuring out, okay, the first step really is gratitude. Learning to be grateful. Because in a heart filled with gratitude, there is no room for discontentment in comparisons. When you are thankful and grateful for your life, that's the first step. And then that leads you into humility. And humility is misrepresented a lot today. A lot of people think

it's humiliation that you have to put yourself down. But C.S. Lewis says that humility is not thinking less of yourself. It's thinking of yourself less. And suddenly your eyes can open. You can say, okay, what if I lived my life where it's less about me and more about other people serving your spouse, your kids, your friends, your coworkers, and you start to, to function out of that mindset more and more when you start to do that, then that next gradual step is contentment. And so it really is a journey. So with the contentment journal, we spend the first 30 days in gratitude, the next 30 in humility, and then the last 30 in contentment. And there are prompts every day for 90 days.

There's a little bit of teaching in it as well. And I love it. I mean, I love journaling personally. And so being able to kind of put that with the subject of contentment is huge. And we actually launched it last night at the Kansas City Money and Marriage event because we had some on hand because they shipped today since its's launched. So I was like, guys, you get a sneak peek. You get it like 12 hours early. And we sold out completely of them. So we had to take some names down and ship people some. Today, we're going to ship it to them because we ran out. So if that was you in Kansas City, so sorry. It's coming, I promise. But yeah, I think it's just a message we all long for.

And I don't think you ever become perfect at it. Practice doesn't make perfect, but practice makes permanent. And so making this a habit in your life and starting with that 90 days. There's something about having a clear guide to walking you through something, because this is a soft skill yeah it's not a hard skill meaning it's a spiritual and emotional journey it's not something you just um you know a hard skill would be budgeting you know you can do your budget every day too but a soft skill is to work through your emotional your spiritual journey like your heart i mean really you need a your heart needs a guide because it will wander off yep and so that's the beauty of journaling to start with

but even journaling then you can still wander off you know i i get add you know i'm sitting down trying to write in the mornings and i 14 000 it's nothing interrupting me it's just my brain yeah you know it's just lit up and i got stuff to do and i'm and there's 14 different things happening and i'm thinking of all those at one time and i need a guided thing and that's all this is and it's not the days are not pre-listed so you don't have to start like january 1 or something it's any 90 days you just write the first date on there and then you got 90 consecutive days and you're going to lead them through it right yes so in two weeks april 15th we'll be doing it together i'll probably do it mostly on instagram and probably twitter maybe link some stuff to facebook as well but so you launched it on april fools and then you're going

to start that no today is the launch day actually if you want to know the real truth we had it launching yesterday and we're like but april fools and tax day yeah well i april fools all the time like on the show yesterday we we we got chris hogan and christy right i i april fools all the time like on the show yesterday we we we got chris hogan and christy right i love april fools so i was like if i launch it on april fools everyone's gonna be like wait is this a real thing or no yeah like tom brady's retirement yeah totally i know right so i was like okay we'll just we'll wait until we're 24 so it officially launches today not april fools uh and yeah and i'm yeah i'm pumped about it and again contentment i mean yeah it's it's huge so you're gonna lead them through on instagram oh i'm yeah i'm pumped about it and again contentment i mean yeah it's it's huge

so you're gonna lead them through on instagram oh i'm sorry yes yeah yeah so i'm gonna go through the 90 days um yeah with everyone so it'll be fun it's kind of a so that's like a little instagram story every morning or something yeah yeah yeah okay all right and then you'll be talking about on your youtube show of course as well yes yes and leading people through on your podcast and yeah because each day i mean and they're and some, and some of the prompts will come easier to you. Others, it's challenging. I mean, there are times where you're in a season and maybe you don't feel like being humble with a certain thing that I'm challenging you to do that day or to write about.

And so, yeah, some of them are challenging, but it's good. Like, it stretches you some. I didn't want this just to be all flowery and it's going to just feel good all the time. I wanted a little bit of like, hey, this may be a hard one for you, but press in and let's do it. It's a good-looking product. I mean, we spent some money on it. So much you said that. It's beautiful.

I know when I was on stage last night. The interior pieces, the design team did a great job. Oh, they knocked it out of the park. I mean, it really is. It's something you'll keep on your shelf for years. Yes. Especially if it has the desired effect. Yes.

And it just. You might want to go through it again. Goes with everything. Oh, it matches. Yeah, it does. But the interior is like four color, right? Do what? There's four color interior?

Yeah. You got all kinds of stuff going on. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And when I was on stage last night in Kansas City, there was like gold foil, you know, and I was like doing this and it was like reflecting. I was like getting the effect. In gold foil. And I was doing this, and it was reflecting. I was getting the effects.

In the spotlight. I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's great. And again, and in the money space specifically, because that's really where my heart is and where this kind of led out of. But I'm like, content people win. They do. When you're content, those are the people that are able to sacrifice their lifestyle and get out of debt. Content people are the ones that can live below their means and put money away.

I mean, there is a true defining moment of winning financially and helping you get ahead faster when you are content, knowing that stuff is just not going to make you happy. Stuff is fun. We talk about that. It's okay to have some nice stuff, but you can't let your nice stuff have you. We are a culture that believes if I can just have X, Y, or Z, or if I could just have a better car, if we could just have a bigger house, like whatever it is, if we could just have this, then my life would be better. And the truth is those things become so empty over and over again. And so realizing that it is, it's the condition of your heart that's really important.

And that's what this journal walks you through. Yeah, it makes a big difference. The people that do the debt-free screams are people that became grateful with what they had, became grateful for what they had. They became humble because usually they have a why, that they're reasoned. It's bigger than them. Yeah, that's bigger than them, and that's being other-centered rather than self-centered. Oftentimes it's, I want to change the family tree for my kids and we had a new baby and and this new baby just changed you know changed my level of nobility the way i look at the world and i hear

that over and over and over the debt-free scream and so that's humility and then they do you know i'm living like no one else so that later i can live and give like no one else. And the interesting thing is you build that, those three muscles, the gratitude muscle, the humility muscle, and the contentment muscle is a natural result, but it becomes a muscle too. Yeah. And then you're just like, I'm going to get some nice stuff, but it doesn't define anything. And so I don't have to go be stupid in the way I do it. I don't have to spend money I don't have and go in debt to buy something some car and somebody's gonna bounce a door off of in

the middle of the dadgum you know you know you have to park you get a decent car you got to park out in egypt somewhere to keep somebody from bouncing a car off of it door off that's the way it is you know but that that is what it is. You just have to, that's the thing. Contentment Journal is $19.99. You can get it at RachelCruz.com, DaveRamsey.com, or call Ramsey Concierge at 888-22-PEACE. Congratulations, Rachel. Thank you. Thanks for having me on.

I'm excited. Thanks. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. Mike is in Los Angeles. Hey, Mike, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Hey, hold on for a second. I goofed up. I'm supposed to go to these fine folks standing in my lobby to do their debt-free scream.

I screwed up. Erin and Allison are with us. Hey, guys, how are you? Hello. Great. Doing very well. Where do you guys live? Battleground, Washington. Cool.

Which is? A suburb of Portland, Oregon. Got it. Okay. Very cool. Welcome to Nashville and all the way from the West Coast to do your debt-free screen. Yep. And how much have you paid off?

We have paid off $125,000. Wow. How long did this take? 28 months. Good for you. And your range of income during that time? $102,000 to $120,000. Good.

What do you guys do for a living? I'm a business insurance agent. And I'm a speech-language pathologist. Oh, okay. Very cool. Good for you guys. What kind of debt was the $125,000? Student loans, car loans, credit cards, solar panels, and a patio.

How long have you all been married? Just over four years. Four years. So after being married for a couple of years, you look up and go 28 months ago. There's a problem. What lit the fuse? What caused you to wake up? So we decided just a couple months after we had financed $30,000 in solar panels to put on our house.

Oh! That we also needed a patio for our new house. For your solar panel. Right, that we had just bought a year and a half before. So we bought the house, put solar panels on, and then decided we needed that patio. Right. on and then decided we needed that patio. Part of the conversation in talking with the contractor was how much we were going to be able to afford in a monthly payment. It was less about the patio itself and more about the financing and how much we were going

to be able to pay when that one year no interest loan came due. So we discovered that $150 was all we were going to be able to afford in that monthly payment. You would think that in that moment, that's when we decided to not go forward with the payment. But we actually just said, well, we've got to figure something out in a year so we can afford that $150 payment. So we decided to go forward with the patio. Just a couple weeks after that, I was talking with my sister who was following your baby steps. She was telling me about how she listens to your podcast every day and that she's going

to become a millionaire. And I was like, you're crazy. You're crazy. Sure you are. You're my sister. Right. Yes. And after that conversation, it kind of started sinking in a little bit more that maybe we need to do more than just figure out how to afford this $150 payment.

And then it was also that moment of how are we making this much money and can only afford $150 a month? And that was stretching it for us. We looked at our budget at the time and thought, I don't know how we're going to make this $150 work, but it was just kind of a painful moment to realize that- We make a hundred something thousand, we can't find a hundred dollars. Exactly. Exactly. So from that conversation with my sister i went home and i pulled the total money makeover off of the shelf

that um my dad had bought me just a few years earlier i never read it because i didn't feel like it applied to me i was i wasn't in that much yeah that much of a you know deep hole to need to read a book like that love it so then i read it and I told Aaron, you need to read this too. We both read it and pretty much from then on we were in tents for 28 months. Okay. Got after it. Yeah. All right.

Good. So Aaron, she hands you this book and she's been talking to her sister about this crazy stuff. What did you think? I was on board with it. I began reading the book in between my lunch breaks at work and after work, and I actually finished in about three days. And the one part I had a problem with was stopping my 401K contributions.

I really had a hard time with that. And then we finally got on board, and we did that, and it made us successful. Okay. So $125,000 paid off. Congratulations. Thank you. How's it feel to be free? Amazing. Yeah. It's weird. It's still hard to kind of grasp that, that that's gone. And now looking at our budget and comparing to that moment where we didn't know where we were going to find $150, and now it's like, you know.

A lot more than that are available. Yeah. So how old are you two? I'm 29. Just turned 32. All right. Perfect. Well done, you guys.

So what do you tell people now when they call like your sister called? I'm going to be a millionaire. Yeah, that's good. I like that. Okay. But what do you tell them the secret is? What have you got to do? You got to do this.

There's a few things. I think the secret is communication and being on the same page and the budget. And I think all those are so intertwined and communicating with each other. And I know that we became closer and began communicating better after doing this journey. And it's been amazing. Yeah. I think that just doing a budget together, we budget twice a month

every month and it opens up that communication for us to be able to talk about everything multiple times a month and we were never in a place like that before. When we started we actually didn't know how much credit card debt. We had one credit card together

and we had our own credit cards, and neither of us knew how much was on the other person's credit card. And I can't even imagine that. Like, we know every single dollar that we both spend now. Yeah. That's a big deal. That makes all the difference in the world. That's a huge indicator, a huge data point in being able to not only get out of debt,

but now being able to go on and follow in your sister's footsteps and be an everyday millionaire. So way to go, you guys. Who are your biggest cheerleaders? I would say definitely my family. My sister was the one that kind of told us to get started on this. My dad is here with us. He's the one that gave us the book in the beginning.

And then also we have a huge group of people in the debt-free community on Instagram who are cheering us on and watching us today. Love it. Very good. Very good. Well, congratulations, you guys. Thank you. We got a copy of Chris Hogan's Everyday Millionaire book for you, signed by the man himself, number

one bestseller, How Ordinary People Built Extraordinary Wealth, How You Can Too. You're on your way. Thank you. So proud of you guys. I know your dad's proud of you and your sister well done good job all right it's aaron and allison in portland oregon area 125 000 paid off in 28 months making 102 to 120 count it down let's hear a debt-free scream three two's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free!

Love it! 29 and 32 years old. 28 months ago, they made a decision to change their lives. And they changed their life. They did it. They did not get a letter from Washington, D.C., giving them money. They did not get help from anyone. They got direction from me, encouragement

from friends and family, and encouragement from me on this show. Made them believe that they could do it if they would sacrifice. If you will live like no one else later, you can live and give like no one else.

The interesting thing is that there are people that have less debt and more income than they have who cannot seem to feel like they can get out of debt because they're waiting on someone in Washington, D.C. to fix their life. President Trump is not going to fix your life. The Democrats and the Republicans are not. to fix their life. President Trump is not going to fix your life. The Democrats and the Republicans are not going to fix your life. They can't even balance their budget. And you sit around and wait on them? You sit around and wait on something to be fixed somewhere by someone else?

You've got a long wait, and your life's going to suck while you wait. It's dumb. The Bible says, if you've signed surety, if you've gone into debt, do this. Give no sleep to your eyes, no slumber to your eyelids, and deliver yourself. Deliver yourself. Deliver yourself. Deliver yourself. Like a bird from the hand of the fowler and like a gazelle running from a cheetah.

Deliver yourself. Run. You can wander into debt, but you can't wander out. And if you're listening to me right this second, it's your turn. Yeah, I'm talking to you. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. We're talking with Mike in Los Angeles. Hey, Mike, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show.

Hi, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up? My wife and I have recently finished Baby Step 3. We have $20K extra in savings and are considering what the next step is for us. Our household net pay in 2018 was right at about $160. Way to go.

We're 30 years old. We have no children. We do not own a home and are now discussing whether to put 15% toward retirement while saving up for a home or to flat out focus on only piling up for a home as quick as possible. The two curveballs to this conversation are her parents have generously offered as an early inheritance to gift us with $150,000 toward the purchase of our first home. And the kicker, number two, is my wife is concerned about not putting anything toward retirement while saving up for a home for the next few years. What would you do?

If you have $170,000, why can you not buy a home? Now. Just in the Los Angeles area, it's fairly expensive. I mean, we're thinking probably somewhere around the $600 to $1 million range would be what we're looking at. It's a little bit more expensive than a starter home. I understand that. But, I mean, if you have $170,000 to put down, you could buy a $600,000 house making $160,000, couldn't you?

Can. Yes, you can. On a 15-year fix, that's about, what, like $4,000 a month payments, so a schedule over 15. So it would be a little tight, but not much wiggle room, I think. So the point being, I don't think you have to take a long. How old are you two? 30. And she's panicking about retirement? Not panicking.

Well, to the point you can't save for two years until you're 32? Because of the compound interest. I know. I understand compound interest. I understand. But I'm saying between 30 and 32, if you did no savings toward retirement and you put another $100,000 with this 170, so you had $270,000, $300,000 to put down, you put down 50% or 30% on a $900,000 house, you're going to be in fine shape

and you're going to be able to save. Your income is going to go up from 32 on. What do you guys do for a living? She's a mechanical engineer, and I'm a sound artist for movies and TV. Okay. Okay. Well, assuming you continue to do your job well, and your job could be feast or famine, hypothetically. Hypothetically. But, you know, I mean, you could go out of vogue and 20 years from now might not be making more.

That's possible if you don't continue your learning curve in your world. Her world is a pretty steady climb up on income. So I think you're fine. If you want to take a year and save up some more and then buy a house or two years and save up some more and buy a house, we call that baby step 3B. I never recommend or almost never recommend somebody do that longer than three years but if you take if you take 12 to 24 months and add some to the 170 you got 20 mom and dad are giving 50 you add some to that then you're gonna you know you're gonna have a really substantial down payment and you make a great income so you're fine you're fine i i wouldn't hesitate to do it that way at all.

I don't think your numbers work to save up to pay cash for anything in a short period of time in your market. It's just very difficult to do there with your income. So you could do it, but it might take you 10 years. And she's not going to want to play that, it sounds like. Joel is with us in Seattle. Hi, Joel. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave.

How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Yeah, I've got a small business people question for you. I own a very small business. There's just five of us. That includes my wife and I. I imagine there's just a few other team members. And I'm familiar with your no-gossip policy from the Ontario Leadership material, which I really appreciate. My question is, I had an employee this morning who's been

with us for a few years, approached me, and was sort of frustrated that one of her newer co-workers, who happens to be a friend of hers, was venting to her and basically gossiping a lot of negative stuff that I sensed might have been going on that wasn't sure. And so I appreciate that she's approached me. She did it sensitively and even felt bad doing so. But now I'm wondering, how do I approach or do I approach this other employee without sort of calling out her friend slash co-worker for bringing it forward? How do I handle this in a way that's tactful but achieves the result we hopefully want yeah um does the new person know that you all don't are not okay with this idea i have not been clear enough i

haven't articulated that no gossip policy clarity that i should okay all right uh you know i might just pull pull her in and say listen i'm reading some stuff and um i gotta tell you i'm not okay with the concept of this and um and i kind of think you're doing that right now and i'm going to go ahead and kind of warn you right now that i'm not going to be okay with that in the future and she says what me yeah you. And, you know, what's interesting is if you use a low tone and you're not caustic in your sentence structure, you can say almost anything to people. But what happens is we get frustrated, angry, and we change our tone or we change our sentence structure to where it's toxic. But if it's just like, look, I kind of goofed up.

I had this whole idea, and I thought I had told people better. I hadn't really told people as well as I should, so probably you didn't completely understand that we basically here have a no-gossip policy. I will pledge to you that I'm going to tell people going forward that if you have a negative, you have to bring it in here if you could bring it to a co-worker ever again you and i are not going to be okay and what you've been doing taking it to other co-workers is just not okay it's on me because i didn't tell you ahead of time that it wasn't okay but you also knew it was slimy to do that so you shouldn't be slimy. Stop it. And that conversation could last that long.

It could last that long. It doesn't have to be a long conversation. And it's over. And I'm not going to beat you up. I'm not putting you in timeout. I'm telling you it's my fault because I wasn't clear. But after today, it's your fault. And really, it was kind of your fault anyway

because it's just slimy to do that, and you don't need to do it anymore, just as a human being. You know, running down the people who pay you is stupid and disloyal. You don't have to say that, but it is. Should I be worried if basically if you, you know, ask, you know, did so-and-so tell you this, or how do you know? You know what, that's not relevant. Yeah, if they bring it up, I say, you know what, did so-and-so tell you this, or how do you know? You know what? That's not relevant.

If they bring it up and say, you know what? That's not relevant. What's relevant is I wasn't clear, and you were slimy. So we both have made a mistake, and you're not going to do that mistake anymore, and I'm not going to do my mistake anymore. I'm going to be clear from now on, unbelievably clear, and you're going to stop doing that that's all that's relevant and if you do not want to work in a place like that then you should probably pack

your stuff because you now work in a place that's like that at our place the people that work here don't do this and if you do this whatever this is then you're not going to get to be one of the people that work here. And that's something we talk about around here all the time. I mean, odd, infinite item. Every stinking staff meeting, I'm covering some kind of a core value, and I go, this is how we treat the customer. This is how we serve with excellence. We bring it. We're playing for the Super Bowl every day, and we we're not gossiping and we're not running down anybody we're not

running down each other if you have a problem not with when you have a problem you hand your negatives up and your positives laterally and down you don't discuss negative things frustrations with people who can't do anything about them. That is a toxicity in an organization, and it destroys an organization. And I will fire your butt. And I tell people that about once a month from the stage with 800 people in the staff meeting. And you know what? We win best place to work every stinking year.

And one of the things when they survey and say, why is it the best place to work? We love the no-gossip policy. The other people love it. And so if slimy girl can't clean up her act and she's just going to continue to be slimy girl, then she does need to leave. You can get another one

that's better than her. And that's part of the fear. That's part of the fear, too. And so... I appreciate the clarity and pray for the courage now. Yeah, yeah. And it's just, listen, it's courage, but it gives you the ability to be kind. Meekness is not weakness.

It's power under control. You're in the driver's seat. You own the place. You control her job at the stroke of a pen. So you're in a position to be kind to her, but clear. Be very clear. And you've not been clear. You admitted that, so you owe her an apology for that part.

And don't make that mistake again. Be clear from this point forward. And that's really what it is, because you've got to get it out there. You can't ignore it in the name of protecting the informant. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, it's Kelly, associate producer and phone screener for The Dave Ramsey Show.

This episode is over, but if you heard about a product or service and didn't have a chance to write it down, don't worry. We list everything that is mentioned during this episode in the podcast show notes section. Thanks for listening.