The Ramsey Show - App - Rock Bottom Can Be Solid Ground to Rebuild On

Episode Date: June 18, 2025

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. Rachel Cruz, number one best-selling author, host of the Rachel Cruz show, co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour, two big hits on the Ramsey networks and my daughter, she's my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Tasha's with us in Louisville, Kentucky. Hey Tasha, how are you? Hi, good afternoon. Thank you for taking my call. Sure, what's up? I just had a question. I do suffer from a little financial PTSD from the past. And my husband and I have both worked through

that. We do not have any credit card debt. We own our own homes. We both work. We have no car payments. However... Sounds like a good disease to me. It actually is. And that's why this next part is the problem. My husband finally has got his 25 years in. He desires to work two more years before retirement, but he has started a new side job and it has done very well. But with that, he has blown through a substantial amount of our savings and now he wants to blow into our retirement. And I don't know if I'm being selfish because of the past traumatic of the trauma of the credit card debt, etc., that we had.

But okay, so I'm a little bit confused. There's two competing sentences here. He's doing extremely well, but he's blown through a substantial part of our savings those two things don't go together he was he doing well or is he blown through the savings which is it he's doing he currently works a full-time job I know I heard that but the side gig how much savings is he used up how much money? Well with the FEMA equipment about a hundred and forty thousand the what equipment The FEMA equipment FEMA like them. We bought FEMA. Yes What's he doing? Like in North Carolina like the cleanup for the flooding disaster areas. So like North Carolina, Kentucky, those places.

You could clean up flooding cheaper than 140,000 in equipment. What did he buy? He bought excavators, backhoes, pressure washer equipment, that sort of thing, to kind of, I guess, just to work with the damage to clear everything up and you're in Louisville Yes, and he's in North Carolina No, no, no, he just he goes to the places that are flooded and that was catastrophic Events and he's done that for a couple of years. So how much money has he made since he's done really well? um About 150 roughly and so he's not done really well. He's broken, he's broke even.

Well, with his regular job that he does. No honey, when you, I don't care about his regular job, when you open a business and you spend 140,000 to make 150,000, that's not doing well. Right. That's breaking even. Well, that's kind of the point that he and I have been going back and forth about. That's approaching a hobby. That to me is kind of how I envision it, but he's also now wanting to add to his collection of things to me that he just like admires. No, we're not making money Yeah, it's um, it's been Even if you've got, even if you've got two million dollars in your retirement I would still would not do that as a business owner who coaches 10,000 business owners

I tell people to add to equipment only when you're getting an ROI. He's not getting an ROI yet He's not getting a rate of return yet Right. How old are you guys? when you're getting an ROI. He's not getting an ROI yet. He's not getting a red return yet. Right. How old are you guys? He is 48 and I'm 43. And we both have federal jobs that are very good, but the side job is kind of where it's thrown everything off

because we had like everything that we have paid for the side job is what we want to call it has came out of our savings. So here's the way I would do it if I were him not you okay. Okay. If I were him if you used a hundred and forty thousand of your savings to start a business I would not buy more equipment until I put that hundred and forty back in savings. Okay. And then I would pay cash for out of the business only any other equipment. See that that right there is where because we do have about eighty nine thousand savings and then the two pieces of equipment that he's warning would

completely wipe that out. No, absolutely not. I am a saver. I'm a saver. No, it's not getting to do with that. It's got to do with that's bad business practice. It's a bad way to run a business. How long has he had this open?

When you're losing a quarter of watermelon, you don't get a bigger truck. He's had this open since last June. So it's been a year. So I support you wanting to be in business honey, and I want you to be successful in business. The definition of success in business is making money, profit. And so far you've made $10,000 profit. When you put the $140 back in savings, whatever money you make on this side business, if you

want to put it all back into equipment, that's fine, but we're not taking any more out of savings. I'm not okay with that because it's bad business practice. He's falling into the shinier thing. If I get more and more piece of equipment, I'll be able to make a profit. And no, you need to learn how to make a profit with $140,000 worth of equipment you got. When you can start making money with that, then take that money and buy some more equipment. And Tasha, I hope you're hearing this, that this is, regardless, this is not you having a traumatic financial event and it's causing this angst amongst you. Like this is just kind of common sense, right? So separate the two,

even if you never had any level of these like moments, nightmarish stuff with money and you always were great, this would still be stupid, right? It's not the difference in a spender and a saver. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not a personality thing. It's not a history thing. It's just a stupid thing. Just don't do it. How do I explain apart from it being a stupid financial decision? Well, businesses are supposed to be profitable, honey. And when the business is profitable, meaning you put the $140 back in our savings, then if that business continues to make money,

we can buy equipment out of the money it makes. It's called at the speed of cash. Yeah, we grow this business, a side business, at the speed that it produces cash. Not out of savings, that you're dipping into retirement at your age. Because what you're doing is you're masking over the fact that this so far is a failure. Well the issues that I'm having with him as far as understanding that because I do know that that is not a smart business

decision to be pretty much like you said just making $10,000 in a year from that is that, you know, he has worked so long. He's like, well, I have X amount in retirement. Well, we still have to be able to live after. You want some wine with that cheese. Exactly. Seriously. Call the ambulance. I work so hard. We all work hard. Well, we, we, we managed to pay in three years almost $91,000 in credit card off that's right that's how you're supposed to do it me I listen I think he has I think he probably has a business that will work but he needs to prove it he's a slowdown he used to prove it

right you can't buy enough equipment to make something successful you have to make it successful and then buy the equipment. That's just bull crap. And people do this stuff all the time in business and they go broke. And it's just not wise. Please. You know, you guys gotta keep having the fight. And it's not because you're damaged goods with PTSD or something.

That's not the... Rachel's right about that. Rachel's dead on. This is bad business practice simple regardless of how we got to this point it's a bad business practice Mike's in Atlanta hey Mike welcome to the Ramsey show hey thank you guys for taking the call so I'm gonna be straightforward to my question. Me and my wife we have a seventy thousand dollars

in debt and I'm not so sure if we should file bankruptcy or not. How many thousand dollars in debt? Alright seventy thousand. Oh seventy okay on what? Seventy. Yes so the breakdown is 50k on the car repo, 10k on credit card, 5 on medical and 5 on another car loan. Okay, are you, what do you guys make, what's your household income? Alright, so my household income is 72k yearly and take home pay 6k a month. Your wife work? Yes, me and my wife work. Okay, what do you do?

We're both bankers. You're bankers? Yes. Okay. Alright. Because you're not making much money. No, we're not at all. We're not making much money at all.

So we're looking on the next few months to get a promotion so we can Bump it up for at least 80k each Yeah Each so 160 Yes in a few months for now, but we're not so sure yet. So it might take a ride around like about a year Well, um The good news is that I caught... Just on the top of all that, we do have to replace a transmission on the car that we

have right now, and it's behind on bills, but you're not bankrupt mathematically. Okay. Mm-hmm. Because you can settle, number one, you're not paying anything on the car repo today. No, we're not. So as a matter of fact, all these debts, it's because I recently got married with my wife and she carried all these debts into our marriage but I knew from the beginning so I'm just

trying to... Oh so these are all old debts? Yes. They're all behind. That's all from her. Okay. Yeah they're all behind. Well old debts can be settled for pennies on the dollar. Mm-hmm that's what I heard from you. Okay and so and a car repo of fifty thousand probably means that's not the actual deficit. That probably means that was the total loan on the car. Exactly. Okay, so then they sold the car for something, and the difference is what you technically owe, not the total.

Okay. And then you can settle that for somewhere around a quarter on the dollar. Okay. So let's pretend that they sold that car for 20,000 bucks. Okay. At the repo lot. Because it probably was a 30 or 35,000 dollar car. Does that sound right? Yes.

I'm guessing, but I'm probably not that far off. So they sold it for 20,000. She owed 50, so now she owes 30. Uh huh. You don't owe anything because you didn't sign for,000. She owed 50,000. So now she owes 30,000. You don't owe anything because you didn't sign for this car. No I did not. Okay so that's where the fun comes in. This is where it gets cute. So you're gonna make the phone call when you're ready but not now and say what's the deficit and they're gonna say 30,000 and you're gonna start laughing when they say that and say well you know my y'all you've got my wife and she makes 25,000 dollars a year

you're not gonna get paid dude I'm in the banking business and you're not gonna get your money so I tell you what we can do though I will put some money towards this because I've married her and you know I'll give you guys 6,000 bucks so offer So offer them fifteen cents on the dollar and plan to settle around 25 cents on the dollar. Okay. But you got to have that money scraped together from living on nothing and piling up cash and that's your big one by the way. That's the big one. So what we're gonna do is do a debt snowball but do a different kind.

Normally the debt snowball is you pay minimum payments on everything but the little one in attack the little one in that order right? Okay yes. But these are all bad debts so we're not paying on them now. So we're not gonna do that. Instead we're gonna list them smallest to largest and we're gonna settle the smallest one first or just pay it one of the two. If you got a little $200 medical bill don't screw around with it just pay it. That's five grand and the cars are you are you guys current on the car, Mike? The $5,000? Yes. Oh yeah, you need to get that paid off. Yeah.

Yeah, get that paid off and then start clearing those medical bills, then clear the credit card, and then call the repo people. Okay. But the repo people aren't going to do anything. They're the slowest on the planet, the dumbest on the planet. So they're not even aggressive. They're just, you know, the credit card people are aggressive. They'll at least call you names and your mother names and other stuff. But the repo people are, they're just like a slug. So unless it's one of those tote the note lots and then they're super aggressive, but that's probably not what this is. So anyway, yeah, that yeah that's you settle it for so here's the

thing so if we settle the car for seven or eight grand we sell the credit cards for five grand we pay the others it's 20 grand and you're out of debt yes and I do have to replace it transmission the car now that's fine go ahead and take care of it go and get the car fixed yeah and and shop around that's not a dealer quote is it no no it's not a good local mechanic right yes I got like a cool front like two mechanics what kind of car is that it was a Ford Fusion has a 200,000 miles on it I don't even know if it's worth it might not be but so I don't put a new transmission and put a rebuilt in it they They're half the price. Okay. Or buy or have them buy one from the

salvage yard out of an erect Ford Fusion and put the used one in that's not even rebuilt and that's even cheaper. You might get that for 500 to 1000. Mike, do y'all have any cash? Yeah we do like. Like I would say probably like 3K, 4K. Yeah, I think you can get this transmission fixed for less than that. Yeah. Yeah, get a used one from a salvage yard, get your local mechanic to put it in

because this car isn't worth spending much on. Okay. And let's get it up and running. And then you guys roll up your sleeves and take side gigs and push, push, push for these promotions. And then you just got a plow through about 20 grand of this and with a system and you take care of food shelter clothing transportation get on a budget and the two of you are living on

a budget you're not going out to eat you're not going on vacation you're broken almost bankrupt we're not talking about those things so we're cleaning up this mess okay you can do this mm-hmm mm-hmm I just want to be able to in the future be like you guys. I've been watching Rachel, you, Dave, and everything. It's just like down the road, like maybe 10 years from now, not living this fear and being scared all the time. You'll get there faster than 10 years, Mike.

Yeah, it's 10 months. You'll do this. 10 months. How long have you guys been married? A few months? Probably, no, like four months, four to five. Okay, yeah, so you're newlyweds, you're figuring this out. So she comes in the house and opens up a suitcase full of bricks.

Mm-hmm. Well she was carrying the bricks around, they're dating. It wasn't a surprise. I know, he knew they were there. Yeah, he married her with the bricks. He told him they were there. But they're heavy. They are heavy.

They're still heavy. She's worth it, she's worth it, help her clean it up. That's fine. She told him they were there. But they're heavy. They are heavy. They're still heavy. She's worth it. She's worth it. Help her clean it up. That's fine. She told the truth. You knew what you were getting into. You signed up.

This is your dowry. Get after it. Yeah. And Mike, I think this is too, you know, we find with couples in general, but I think especially newlyweds, like this first season of marriage, this is a huge mountain for you guys to climb together. And what this will do from being unified going forward,

like you guys are doing one of the scariest things. When you called and asked if you guys were gonna file for bankruptcy, like that's how at the bottom you feel. And you guys climbing out of this together is gonna sustain something really beautiful. I mean, seriously, there's so much about suffering. And when you do that together and you kind of hit

that bottom, what is planted out of that and the character qualities and what you guys will go through, it's just, it is amazing. So honestly, if there's a flip side of it, you can see this as a gift if you choose to look at it that way and you guys go on this journey together. Cause I think it's gonna be fantastic. Yeah, I mean, you knew all this was there.

You married her and you said, this is what I wanna do. You're a stud, man. You got a big backbone. You can do this. You signed up for it on purpose. And that tells me you got the stuff right there. That's not, a guy that's a wuss would run.

Yeah, and your incomes. I know you mentioned the raises. You gotta get them up. You gotta get them up. I mean, both of you guys making 70 together. I'm like, as bank, you guys can do better. You know you mentioned the raises. You gotta get them up. I mean both of you guys making 70 together. I'm like as bankers, you guys can do better. You can do better. So push through. And if not, then it's going to be side hustles at night.

But that'll be worth it, you know, is to get out of this as quickly as possible. Hey, hang on. Christian's going to pick up. We're going to get you signed up for every dollar premium and get you into Financial Peace University and make sure you get those budgets going and that you follow the exact steps on pushing through this that we just outlined and if you do that you can get through this I know you can. Jan is in Portland Oregon. Hey Jan, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Well, hello there, see,

my question is whether or not it would be a wise move to get solar panels. And the reason that we're considering it, we've been solicited heavily in the past and currently as well, but, uh, are you, our local utility company has recently had an 18% increase. And then, um, it's projected to be like a 4% increase. Can you do a 100% replacement of your power? No. What percentage can you do? 98%. Oh you can you can replace 98% of your power usage was solar? Yes. Okay, so what's the break-even period on it? About seven years. No, I wouldn't do it. No, that's too long? Yes, it's too long. So if we

add more panels it would be more expensive. Would that change it thing? It would up the percentage. If you can get it to where you whatever you're buying, whatever percentage it is that you're buying, if you can get it to where you whatever you're buying whatever percentage it is that you're buying if you can get it to break even and you pay cash for them and you can get to break even in three to five years I would consider it and the reason is solar panels are technology I endorse solar panel companies in several cities okay I don't think Portland Oregon is one of them that I remember but the but I'm not against solar don't think Portland Oregon is one of them that I remember but the I'm not against solar don't misunderstand but there's two things that the solar people do that are wrong that you should not do one is they want you to finance it

and you know the savings is gonna pay the payment for you will bull crap don't do that okay that was a lien on your house and now you got this stuff attached to your house you can't sell your house, you're screwed up. No, pay cash for it or don't do it, number one. Number two, solar panels have been...how old are you? 70. Yeah, I'm 64. So this has been a subject that's been around for 40 years.

Agreed? Yes. Yeah, and guess what? During that 40 years years the efficiency and effectiveness of the technology on the solar panels has gone way up. The solar panels of today versus the solar panels of even five years ago are like a five-year-old computer or a five-year-old cell phone.

Okay. So, seven years from now your solar panels are going to be a flip phone. Okay, the technology is going to be completely outdated and And performing it, you know ten or twenty percent of what the new ones are I'm making that number up but the the technology is all technology and everything is advancing Solar panels are technology They're advancing and they're an alternative energy source so everybody's trying to help them advance. Everybody's doing R&D because there's tax credits everywhere. The government will give you, you know, the state will give you money back. The federal government will give you money back. All this stuff. Everybody's

trying to push this out there and so there's all kinds of money flying around this to make them better. So they're going to get better than they are today and they are today better than they were yesterday so don't buy a computer that goes a break even on the computer in seven years by a computer you break even on it in three years don't buy a cell phone that you don't plan to throw away in about three years. So in the meantime, at this age, um, you know, we still have a pretty exorbitant utility bill. But this doesn't solve it because because you're paying enough money to break even in seven years,

you're paying seven times as much as your utility bill today in order to install these stinking things. Oh okay, I see. Your money's already out of your pocket times seven. Do you guys have the money for it Jan if you wanted to? Could you write a check for it? Yes. Okay. Good. Okay, so yeah, I would keep working with the different companies and until they look at it and it may be your electricity has to go up even further for it makes sense or the solar panels got an increase in efficiency before it makes sense but there might be a fifty percent percent or a sixty eight percent percentage that

breaks even in three to five years I would do that in your case. Okay but in the meantime just kind of put up and shut up with this these increases. Well there's nothing you can do about them. Okay, but in the meantime, just kind of put up and shut up with this, um, these increases. Well, there's nothing you can do about them. I mean, and we're super frugal. I mean, we're not wasteful with our, um, utility, no, which makes you super mad at these people for doing this. Yeah.

Kind of. Yeah. And it's kind of like one of those things. Okay, well I'll show them. I'll just get solar panels, you know, but evidently maybe that's not. Well, you know, I don't want to show them by cutting off my finger. You know, no, that's. No, no, that's not. No, we don't. Yeah, so maybe you price things around, Jan. I mean, honestly, and if you can get the numbers to work with a company to that five-year breakeven.

Or maybe they come down on their price because you're paying cash up front. Yeah. Oh, well, that's a good idea for it because yeah, we have, we've gotten lots of bids and we did decide to go to a company that- Oh, they're very enthusiastic in their sales. Sure. Yes. And most of them want you to finance because I think that's where they make the money, but we weren't interested in that.

But it still sounds like we either if it did increase the production that still is not really a positive I don't care what I don't care what the number is as long as you get your money back in three to five years yeah okay and Jan with them with your utilities raising year after year it may fast forward that you know If you look up and you guys are paying a ton for utilities more and more that increase Can show back into that three to five year timeline to oh? I see because if they go up 18% next year. It's gonna make it faster

Okay faster in I'm sorry. I'm not trying to be dense like that You're doing good, you did great. Well in order to get to the to the three to five year break-even, making sure that yeah you get your investments worth, that means if your utilities continue to raise year after year they're more expensive, which means if the solar panels stay at the same price, then it's gonna offset it sooner. Exactly. Your break-even analysis, then it's gonna offset it sooner. I don't know if I'm saying. Your breakeven analysis changes.

It's not a linear math problem, it's a math problem on a curve. Yep. So it changes it. Absolutely, you're right. It's a good question though. Yeah, that's a great question. And I'm proud of you for doing cash

because that is one thing. We will get people that have solar panels to their homes and it's alone and it's this whole thing, yes, when they're trying to sell, which is so frustrating. And they're stuck. There we go. All right. Open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five. Cameron is in Dallas. Hey Cameron how are you? I am better than I deserve Dave. Thank you Dave and Rachel for taking my call. Sure. My wife and? Well, my wife and I, we, we've been dreaming about upgrading our home for something a little bigger, maybe a little more functional. And here's my question.

Would it be stupid for us to tap into the Roth principle that we've contributed over several years, uh, to buy a better house in cash without the burden of another mortgage so that we can, can keep enjoying that baby step seven freedom that, that you're always talking about. The other way is not by the house. Yeah that's true too. That's true. You've got options here. No I wouldn't cash out my Roth. The Roth's growing tax-free. You don't have anything else on the planet doing that. No. That's true. No I don't want to lose

the power of that thing. That's gonna be so much stinking tax-free money in a few years and you're not 59 and a half, right? No, no, no. I'm 36. I thought so. Yeah, okay. What's your household income? 71,000. Okay, and what's the move up gonna cost? I've got a paid-off house that's 250 and we'd be looking to move into a 450. Okay, so you need 200k. How much do you have non-Roth to put towards that? Well, I sell the house for 250. No, I'm saying, yeah, you need the other 200. My mother was recently widowed and she wants to move in with us. She'd be bringing 100k

and if I pulled out my principal from my Roth that'd be another hundred. Okay and I'm assuming she does not have 200. No no no no she was recently foreclosed on. She She won't be buying anything anytime soon. Well, you could go to 350. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I can't tell you to do that. I wouldn't do it. And I don't tell people to do stuff I wouldn't do. I get the time sensitive pressure now. Mom's homeless and has 100k.

And that's different than I want to wait three years, you're waiting three years she got a problem and if you really if your wife wants her to move in and you want her to move in. She takes her hundred K and rents for six months to a year and you guys build up more savings you know I mean. Yeah I I'm not gonna tell you to cash out of Roth because I personally wouldn't do it. I would either not move or I would find some other way to skin the cat. Two weekends are on sale right now for the Money and Marriage Getaway. Rachel Cruz right here and Dr. John Delaney do this

couple times a year. It is a full weekend event and it is an amazing event. Three incredible days here in Nashville on the Ramsey campus to strengthen your money and your wealth building, your connection, deepen your intimacy and more. Tickets start at $7.49 a couple. Get tickets for the lowest price before they end at ramsesolutions.com slash getaway or click the link in your show notes if you're listening on YouTube or podcasts these things are selling out there though November's just about gone yes yeah these are great weekends we actually have a couple in the lobby they've been to three there

there are money and marriage alums it's what it's a it's a event that so many people repeat we end up selling like 60% of it at the event for the next event because people always want to come back so Dr. John's lonely and myself and we have fun y'all. It's a fun weekend. You guys are, it's like standup comedy almost in there. It's that and we get real, we cut down to it, like to the real stuff. And so it's not your typical marriage conference.

I'll say that much. It's good. Not with you two. Samantha's in Fort Worth hey Samantha hi hi how can we help I'm sorry What were you making? Oh, 70,000. Man. What happened? You're so upset. They had a massive lay. A massive lay.

I was there 12 years. A massive layoff. Oh my gosh. No warning, huh? No warning. What severance did they offer you? I just want to hug you. What severance did they offer you?

I'm getting about forty thousand. Awesome! What were you doing? I was a billing specialist. Cool! Dave's trying to cheer you up. No! This is the truth. Listen, here's what happens. Once you get through crying, and crying is normal, I don't blame you for that. It's scary Okay, but once you get through crying go get you a $70,000 job by Friday and this nets you 40,000 bucks You get a signing bonus kid

Yes, yeah Yeah Hey man, listen, there's other people all over Fort Worth. Texas looking for help right now What industry was it in, Samantha? She was a billing specialist. Well, billing, but like for, for what? Energy. Okay.

You can do billing in anything, huh? Once you know how to do it, you know how to do it, right? Yes. Is your, Samantha, I'm curious, is your, um, are your tears, is it from, are you scared, are you hurt, what, where where where's the main emotion coming from? I'm really hurt. I'm hurt But then also to I was in school when I was gone do to graduate with my business administration degree Yeah, and in December of 2026 so now they were paying for it. So now I don't have the money to finish school

We're not done. OK. What happens when you get a job making $90,000? You put $40,000 in your pocket, and the new job pays for your education. Then I'd be very happy. Yeah, me too. And appreciative.

Me too. See, this is what's going to happen, all right? So we don't have to assume that you're not going back to school. Let's assume you are going to continue in school. Let's assume the next place is paying for it, and the next place is paying you more than you used to make. And you're gonna put this 40k severance in your pocket. I think this is a net-net positive. You just hadn't found that place yet, but you hadn't started looking yet, because you're still pissed off and hurt and crying.

And I don't blame you, it takes a minute to get over that, that's okay. But you get about 48 hours of that and then let's go find a job. Okay. You can do this. You can do this. Yeah. Listen, that company does not have a soul. Their letting you go had nothing to do with you. You're not worth less than you were six weeks ago. You're worth more than you were six weeks ago.

40,000 more. You follow me? Yes. They were paying you $70,000 and they're a horrible company. That tells me that someone else will probably pay you more because good companies don't treat people like this and piss on them yeah and sometimes Samantha we do find that if you're in something for so long that you have no idea what else is out there and so you may your new position your new job it may be it's gonna feel, which change is always a little scary, right? You're gonna have to learn some new stuff here or there. Like I get that, that can be uncomfortable,

but it actually could be so much better. So much of a better even environment, the people, all of it, like the whole thing could be an upgrade. What were you, why were you getting your business, your BA degree, your business administration degree? What were you wanting to do? So my plan was just to use it to try to get into honestly I wanted to get into the like accounting department oh so you want to go into accounting well this is a good time you've almost completed your business

administration degree that makes you qualified to move into the accounting department at the next place and make 80 and tell them you want to and part of the negotiation is they need to finish they need to pay for you to finish your degree. Most places have some kind of education supplement nowadays if they're of any size. We pay for people to go to class at Ramsey because it Turns out we like smart people around here, and the ones that go to class, you know, it makes them smarter, so hello. Are you married, Samantha?

No, I'm single. Okay. You have any money saved? Well, I have a phone. I have just the $6,000. Is that your fully funded emergency fund no I was working on it that's the thing okay but you're you're debt-free you're debt-free and you got six thousand and they're sending you 40 more correct yes

this is so my mortgage this is so awesome you're gonna look back a year from now and go the best thing ever happened to me in my life is when those twerps fired me. I'm dead serious girl, but you're gonna need to get your head around that idea instead of like the world's gonna fall apart because these twerps fired me. Because the world's not gonna fall apart unless you deem it. Because you have upside potential here. This is God saying I wanted you to move into accounting faster than you were going to anyway. And now you got kicked out of the nest so

fly little eagle. Does that feel good? You can do this. I just needed to hear it. If you weren't scared you wouldn't be normal but scared is not a bad thing. And you're valuable out in the marketplace Samantha. What you are making and 12 years somewhere. Yeah.

So you have the experience, all of it. You're gonna be fine. You're going to be fine. If you were 22 and you worked somewhere for six months and you're like, all right, we gotta start over, right? That feels a little different. This is, you're established. You might be a barista then, but not now.

Yeah, you're established, you're good, Samantha. And this gives you so much buffer. And you've put yourself in a position where you have no payments, but mortgage so you're good it's not like you have a $700 car payment and credit cards and student loans and all of that they could eat into that 40 you have buffer you have time you are good you're good. The fear comes from a couple things one is you have to reset reframe your mind and say I'm going this this is gonna turn out good.

And the fear comes from the sudden surprise and the chance that it might not turn out good. It's like rejection, yeah. Yeah, the suddenness of this is part of what got you. You know, you've had no time to process it. So, not picking on you for being upset, but I am telling you, you got 48 hours of this crying stuff and then it's time to get with it. Suck it up, girl. No, I'm serious.

You need to go be... Samantha, you can call me if you need crying. Listen, I'm telling you, fly, little eagle. Fly. Fly, girl. Go get you 80,000 bucks and you call me back laughing. I want to hear from you, okay? We're going to give you Ken Coleman stuff.

Find the work you were wired to do, take that assessment and make sure you're on track with this thing and I'm gonna send you his book, Paycheck to Purpose, and I'm gonna send you his book, Proximity Principle, and I want you to go to kencolman.com and download all of those job search ideas and how to put together a resume and how to work the proximity principle

and go get you a job, and I want you neck deep, eight hours a day pounding the pavement not just filling out applications but running down leads and going and getting a job by Monday. Monday say Monday Dave. Monday Dave. You got this. You got this. I know you can do it. I'm not blaming you for being scared and I'm not blaming you for being mad. I would be both if I were you right now. But the faster you get the other side of this, the more of this money you get to put in your pocket. Yeah, that's true. And the more this turns into a positive story, rather than... You got this, Samantha.

A spiral. There's no reason to spiral. Spiral up. No, you're going to do great. Spiral up. You're going to do great. You can do this. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show. We help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. Rachel Cruz, number one bestselling author, Ramsey personality, co-host of the Smart Money Happy Hour. My daughter is my co-host today. Mackenzie is in Chicago. Hi Mackenzie. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi Dave. Hi. What's up? Well, I'm calling because I'm kind of in a unique situation. My husband and I have been married for two years.

We're both college graduates. We are currently, I want to say about $40,000 in debt. I apologize, I don't have exact numbers because of the situation we're in. My... Hey Mackenzie, are you on speaker phone? No ma'am. Okay, okay. You speak directly into your phone then as you're breaking up, okay. I'm sorry, yeah, no, I'm speaking right into my phone.

Can you hear me? Yes, okay, thank you. Okay, well, this two-morning is, I've been trying to broach the subject of our finances with my husband. Little bit of background is, my husband and I are both college graduates, but not long after I graduated college,

I was right over by a car and left permanently disabled. I am. I am currently trying to find a job, but I suffer from low seizures. I need a cane. I'm 23 years old, but I need a cane to get around and it's hard. So my husband does work full time and I'm filing for disability to try and help offset the bills. But since I do not work, my husband has kind of taken full control of our finances. Uh, I'm unaware of where our money goes.

And the one thing I know is we're working through baby step two. We have our $1,000 emergency budget. Mackenzie with the car accident, was there a brain injury? Yes, sir. Okay. So he's taking full control as a service to you because you're not as able to do this? Is that what you're saying?

I have the mental capacity to understand our budget and finances. What's the nature of the brain injury then? They cause the seizures. Oh, that's it? Yes, they cause the seizures. Oh, that's it? Yes, they cause the seizures. I do have some intellectual deficits, but I did graduate after I left the label to hold a job and do... Um... Sorry, I have some intellectual deficits,

but it's not so bad that I don't know what's going on. I'm coherent. Okay, I didn't. Obviously we're having a conversation. We knew you were coherent. But I was trying to figure out the motivation of him taking full control of the finances. Julie, it's because he's the only one making money. I have a side business. I work at a farmers market every weekend and that brings in some money but it's not a lot. Gotcha. So what is the way we can serve you today hon? Well I'm trying to approach the subject. My, from the car accident, I was held to a lot of medical bills. I paid off a lot of them, but about six months ago, my husband stopped paying for any and all of my debts completely.

He is only paying off his debts. And I'm trying to broach that conversation, but whenever I try to, it's a, well, we don't have enough money. And I don't know. I'm concerned. I want some advice of like, I don't understand why he's not wanting to pay me a debt. Okay, so you mentioned that you guys have $1,000

for Baby Step 1. Is he working the debt snowball and he's paying minimum payments on everything and then focusing a lot of money on the smallest debt? Yeah, so actually the smallest debt would be my medical bills. Right now our debts are the medical bills, student loans, and car payments. Okay, how much is your medical debt? The last I checked was about $3,000. That's broken up over a couple different medical bills.

I'm not worried. And are the student loans his? They're both of ours. I have $10,000, he has $15,000. And he's working on his $15,000 is what you're saying with money that he's making? Yes, and the car payment that came, he got the car before we were married.

Okay. So I'm confused. So when you say, why are you paying yours instead of mine since we're both married, what does he say? Well, it's like we don't have enough money. You don't have enough money. It's just a matter of what the order is. Yeah. You don't have enough money to pay all of them. You've only got enough money to pay a few, but instead of... why is he paying his instead of yours? That's what I'm trying to figure out. No he's not there's something else going on. I mean you're due an answer to that question is that you know there's

nothing wrong with you asking that question I'm asking that question I if I were in your shoes I would want to know why. Because it sounds like he's planning an exit to me. That's what it sounds like to me too. And that's where I'm really scared. Because I'll be truthful. If I try to be as little of an expense as possible due to the nature of... No, that isn't how this marriage thing works. It's for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, and that includes car accidents. So it's not my wife needs to be less of a burden to me to be worthy to be married to me. That's bull crap thank you okay the reason

i'm saying this is because the only the besides medical bills the only thing i have is i'm currently going through service doctor school and i'm we're trying to pay that off and thankfully it's not that much we're subsidized with some grants and stuff. But if I don't get, if we don't pay this off, it's not like we're, it's not exactly a debt. It's more, I'd like a payment plan. You pay and then you get the dog when it's paid off. Is that make sense?

Yeah, honey, I think you have a marriage problem, okay? Yeah. And I think the two of you need to sit down with a marriage counselor. Okay. Because I can't tell what's going on between the traumatic brain injury, the other issues, the seizures, the other things issue with the car wreck, and then his behavior is in the context that the information that you've got that you brought to us, we can't understand why he's doing this. I don't see a logical reason for it.

There may be an explanation, but I don't know what it is. And I think it's fair with what all you've been through, and even if you hadn't been through that, it's fair for you to get an answer to the question. Well, yeah, for sure. Especially if you guys were dealing with money one way. Sounds like this accident happened and stuff started shuffling and then suddenly he's kind of turned course. So that's what I would want to get to the bottom of, Mackenzie.

I think I want to go see a marriage counselor. And if he won't go, go without him. And I think you need to get some advice that's more in-depth than a couple of goobs on the radio and so that's you know because I think I can't tell what's going on here for sure I don't like the signals I can tell you that and I don't like I don't like the information I have but I can't tell what's going on I can't tell what's going on. Amanda is in Phoenix. Hi Amanda, how are you?

Hi, I'm good. Thanks. Um, my question today is how should we, me and my husband proceed with unknown medical expenses that are already racking up for our newborn daughter? Wow. What happened? What's she facing? Yeah. Well, we don't, we don't really know yet. Um, this is our second baby. Um, we had her in April and she's just had a good number of health issues since birth. So we're doing genetic testing neurology the whole nine yards and we've

been barely managing with our HSA. that's depleted now and we were in our in the ER two times this last week so that has wiped out our emergency fund. No no no no no no if you have an HSA ER is 100% covered. Oh then maybe it's the FSA the whatever whatever money. So you have health insurance right? Yes. Most health insurance 100% Oh, then maybe it's the FSA, whatever money was moving through. So you have health insurance, right? Yes. Most health insurance 100% covers emergency rent. Oh, this was not covered.

Why? I have no idea, but we paid $1,500 for the two visits and we just put it on a credit card. Why? this for the two visits and we just put it on a credit card. So why did you do that? You submitted your your insurance at the front when you walked into the ER and they didn't accept it? Yes, no they accepted it. We have a high deductible health care plan so we haven't met our deductible for the year.

Yeah, but ER is usually not involved in the deductible. It's usually 100 percent. Well, we saw the pay, the registration came around and they collected our money. So okay you need to get on the insurance side of this and that's because you've got it sounds like you've got an ongoing process here that there's gonna this is gonna be a road to walk. Yeah you've got a journey ahead of you agreed? Agreed. Yeah and so you're probably gonna burn through deductible and you're gonna you're gonna become an expert on what insurance covers. Yeah. And that's that that means you're not gonna be shelling out 1500

bucks over 30 minutes here so because insurance is gonna once you burn through your deductible and you hit your stop-loss a hundred percent of it's going to be covered. Okay that that sounds good our deductible is fourteen thousand and so we have about ten thousand to hit that. What's your stop loss? I'm not too sure what that means. Okay what that means is after you and while you're hitting your deductible, what is the copay? 80-20? Yeah, 80-20. Okay, the 20 coming out of your pocket will only go so far, and after that, they cover

100%. That's what stop loss is. Okay. So maximum out of pocket is what stop loss is. Okay. And so you need to find out what your max out of pocket is. So right now we know you got 10 grand more, that's for sure. And then you've got some more on copay beyond that.

That's for sure. And I think you need to go back and revisit with your HR people and find out, or whoever's managing this health insurance, why an ER stay was not covered 100% because they almost always are. Okay. And Amanda, this journey to, I mean, it takes so much work

and it's gonna be so many phone calls talking to so many people, but it's worth it because in the medical world and what we see so often is when insurance screws up, they usually just assume the person on the other end is gonna just take the bill and they just do what they can and they're Just gonna live their life versus the people that actually fight it and stay on top of it because there usually is money laying there and

Again, what they if they screw it up and bill you wrong Most people don't have the perseverance to stay with it to be calling the insurance and bugging them So really pressed into that and really, really get an answer because it could save you guys a lot for sure. What I'm trying to help with is this, here's the visual. You've got this health challenges with a tiny baby and so that just puts your heart in a blender every day. Yes.

And it feels like number two that there's no end to the checks I'm going to write because of my love for this little baby that these checks are going to be a million dollars before I'm through. That the first one is true. The baby has health challenges and that puts your heart in a blender. Everybody who's got babies who's ever had one sick knows how you feel. Not, not, not exactly how you feel, but we've all had our breath taken away and you get your breath taken away about every 45 minutes right now. Okay. And so, but that one is true.

The second one that this is going to bankrupt you and you're going to be a million dollars in debt is is true. The second one that this is going to bankrupt you and you're going to be a million dollars in debt is not true. And so what I want to do is get these, you have two burdens on you, both of which are overwhelming. I want to take the second one and quantify it and get it off of you. Here's what it's going to sound like. You're going to call them and deal with the ER thing like I've told you three times already because I'm a little pissed right now about this, okay?

Number two, not at you, but at them, okay? Number two, you're going to quantify what your out of pocket is on the deductible. Number three, you're going to learn your copay after the deductible is met, probably is 80-20, most of the time it is, okay? Because you're in a high deductible HSA plan. The other thing when you have a high deductible like this, usually you have a low stop-loss or maximum out-of-pocket number. I'm gonna guess, I'm guessing based on my expertise and having seen a thousand of these things, that your maximum out-of-pocket is probably 20 grand including the deductible okay okay it might be 30 it's not a hundred yeah okay so you are not

facing a million you're facing 20 maybe 30,000 and that's nothing compared to number one which is dealing with the baby. Yeah, yeah. So I want to relieve you of the financial stress that's added to this so you can focus your emotional energy in the right place and your prayers in the right place and your prayers in the right place which is on the baby. But you've got to do business well as Rachel said with this insurance company and make sure they're paying every stinking dime.

Okay, definitely. I have an event. I mean we just got back last night from the latest AR. Well, it's easy to assume that this is, that the medical bills are going to be endless and they're gonna be a million dollars in bankruptice. Yeah. It's easy to assume and they're simply not.

Okay. They're simply not. So am I pausing baby steps now? Yes, everything. Okay. You're in the middle of a storm, pause everything. Pile up cash. Okay.

Yeah, take care of baby, take care of you. Okay. I need 20 or $30,000. And they're putting it on a credit card right now. Would you just have a medical bill though? Versus- Have them bill you. Yeah. I wouldn't do the credit card because I just think of the high interest rate and dealing with credit card companies. I'd rather just have the- Yeah. Have them bill you. Anytime they- They didn't give us that option. They didn't give you that option. They said, how do you want to pay for this? Yeah. We just said, okay, it's a card. How I want to pay for it is you're going to bill me because I just gave you the insurance card.

Yeah. Oh my goodness. Okay. Wow. But it's okay. Yeah, but. And if you can't do that, get your boss in here. And if he can't do it, get his boss in here.

Dave's about to fly to Phoenix. I'm about to. Well, no, I'm serious, mama bear. Go in there. I'm serious, mama bear. They're messing with your baby here. Go for the throat. Yeah. This is bull crap. These people start treating your baby like it's a dad gum widget on the end of a conveyor belt. And this medical industry versus the medical arts is driving me

nuts. So how quick can we manage you and get you out of here? Kiss my butt, take care of this kid and send me a bill. This is crazy. I'm serious. This is the world you're getting ready to live in. You're a patient advocate now. And that means you are demanding service from a medical profession that's forgotten how to give it. Yeah, I'll find my voice. Yeah, there you go. That's the one I'm looking for. That's the one I'm looking for. And what I'm trying to do is get the burden off of you of the worry of a million dollars along with the worry of we may have five years of surgeries. Yeah, yeah. Okay. So here's the thing. We've had at Ramsey on our plan, we've had kids that spent a million dollars worth of stay in NICU. our plan, we've had kids that spent a million dollars worth of stay in NICU. And the plan paid it.

And it's a standard insurance plan. It's not because Ramsey's some kind of angel or something. It's just a dad gum insurance policy. And the insurance policy wrote the check. And it's happened more than once. I got a young crew around here. We have a lot of babies. 67 born in one year. I mean, I'm so sorry though. That's just oh from mom to mom. That's just scary

So scary, but you guys have this you really do you're going to be okay. You call us back. We'll fight with you We love you. We'll help you any way we can Our question of the day is brought to you by WhyRefi. WhyRefi works with borrowers who have defaulted private student loans, even when other lenders won't help. They will. With a lower payment, a lower fixed rate, you can have a clear path forward and get this cleared up. Visit whyrefi.com slash Ramsey, that's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y.com slash Ramsey might not be in all states. All right, today's question comes from Alice in Montana. My husband and I have been married for 21 years

and we had weathered financial struggles, including a past bankruptcy. I had a solid nursing career that allowed him to pursue real estate full-time. And in 2021, we had a solid nursing career that allowed him to pursue real estate full time. And in 2021, we had a strong year. We owed $82,000 in taxes for the year and the money was available in his business account. I trusted him to handle everything, but I recently discovered he never paid the IRS. Instead, he used the money on business expenses in a failed side venture without telling me.

Our CPA tried contacting him for months and eventually filed our taxes without signatures in early 2023 to avoid penalties. My husband also hid IRS notices from me. I found out recently when I signed up for a certificate letter stating that the IRS intends to levy our home for $150,000. I feel blindsided and betrayed.

My question is, should I buy him out using a second mortgage to cover the IRS or sell the home and walk away? Whew, gosh, Alice. Buy him, oh, she's divorcing him. I don't know why you would buy him out. Buy him out. Buy him out means you're divorcing him, I guess.

I don't know what that means. You don't buy out somebody you're married to. Bail him out. Buy him out means you're divorcing. I guess. I don't know what that means. You don't buy out somebody you're married to. Bail him out. Do I bail him out and maybe just pay for it? I don't know. You can bail out your husband. Do you use the second mortgage or do you sell the house? Is that all the penalties? But $82,000 and I'm confused, but they filed, the CPA filed their taxes without signatures?

Yeah, that's weird. That's illegal. Okay. It's a good way for the CPA to end up in jail. Let's see. I mean, almost all filings are done electronically, but the CPA that, when ours does it, requires us to sign a document allowing him to file it electronically, even though I'm not technically

filing the tax return. Okay, I can't tell what's going on. This is a bunch of gobbledygook. What I can tell is that if you have an $82,000 tax bill for one year, that means you made $400,000 or $300,000. So if you're staying together and you're going to marriage counseling to try to regain trust and stop this ridiculous behavior of deception. If you're gonna do that, then you've got this household income,

your nursing plus his 300K that he didn't pay taxes on if he makes 300K next year and doesn't blow it all on a side venture and we have a game plan, we could clean this up real quick. That's, I I guess one direction. The other direction is you're getting a divorce and you're selling the house. Yeah, no I would not bail him out. I would bail us out if we are staying together. But if we choose to rebuild this. No, I'm not gonna leave you with a an unreliable unresponsive ex-husband to

pay off his taxes as a hmm she said we owed so I'm wondering if it's part of hers she's nursing they're withholding on her um we don't know what's going on here I'm gonna guess and say this is all the whole tax bills regarding him and So the lien on your house is regarding him So you need to do two things number one if you're seeking a divorce you're probably gonna be selling the house Number two you're not responsible for the taxes in the event. You got a divorce You would file under what's called the innocent spouse provision Which is you didn't you were not aware of these taxes

spouse provision, which is you didn't, you were not aware of these taxes, you are not aware of the business activities that created these taxes, and so the IRS does not hold you liable even if it was married filing jointly. And so it's called the Innocent Spouse Provision and you would need a tax attorney or a great CPA that knows how to work that, and that removes the IRS from you. Now if it is a lien on a house that has both of your names on it and the house is sold they can only take the hundred and fifty out of his portion then if they have approved you for innocent spouse provision and they should it sounds like you qualify for that. So but all of this only works, only happens

if you're divorcing. If you're staying together, he files a spouse provision to keep them from coming after your income, which would probably be a good idea, but then the two of you have got to reestablish some footing on trust and betrayal and lies and deception and then put all of our income in one pile to clean up the mess that he made. And that would include the $150,000 lien being removed from the house. Very few times does the IRS get around, it takes them about five years to actually sell a house, to force the sale of the house.

Very unusual for them to do that quickly. They'll pop a lien on there in a heartbeat, but to actually force the sale of the house to satisfy the tax lien, it takes them forever and they're just not very competent at that part, that level of collections. They'll get there eventually if you do nothing and by the way they'll turn the 150 into 400 before they get there in penalties and interest. So. So if you stay together, get it cleaned up as quickly as possible.

If you're not staying together, see a CPA about innocent spouse provision, talk to your divorce attorney about that, and then we're selling the house. And you're gonna get your portion of the house clear. His portion has 150,000 on a lien on on it I don't know how much value there is in this house we don't have enough information what a mess sorry Alice so it pops into my head that Tom Stanley who wrote the book millionaire next door

in 1992 he's passed away in a car wreck, but he was an inspiration to a lot of us in this space showing that people become millionaires starting from nothing. We followed up with that 40 years later with a, or 30 years later with the Ramsey study of millionaires, the largest study. We studied 10 times more people than he did. Mainly not because we didn't like his study, but just because we wanted to, it was a PR stunt, because people criticized the size of his study. So we ended up studying 10,167 millionaires and where money comes from. He wrote another book later called The Millionaire

Mind where he studied billionaires and he found 39 correlating statistics or correlating life demographics and character qualities and so forth among these billionaires that he studied. And then he ranked them in order of most occurring among the study group to least occurring among the study group. The number one occurring thing among the billionaires that he studied, they were all self-made, meaning they started with nothing and became billionaires. Thousand million. This is way more than a million. Thousand million is a billion. Okay. Number one correlating the most occurring item value, whatever, inside of

this study was they had fanatical levels of integrity. There's a high correlation between fanatical levels of integrity and the ability to build wealth. That's the point of that story. That would be the other end of the spectrum from the man in this email. Lying to his wife, trying to get out of taxes. Yeah. Not returning the CPA's call, all these kinds of things whatever and so

Duck and hide lay in the ditch duck into the shadows Try to move the shell. Hope the P won't be there next time run the scheme run the scam trying to find a shortcut Trying to find a get-rich-quick thing. I'm making good money in real estate, but I still got a side hustle that screwing up. I Find some way to burn money. That's the opposite end of the number one most occurring thing called integrity. So until he... the good news is integrity is a decision. He can just decide to be a man of integrity starting today. But if he doesn't, you got issues sister. You got issues. Yeah, you're trying to drag a tired donkey across the finish line.

Thank you for joining us America. We're glad you are here. If you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck and wondering where your money's going, your first step is getting on a plan, a budget. Our team is hosting free budgeting trainings this month. You'll learn step-by-step how to make and stick to a budget using every dollar. Plus you can get your biggest budgeting questions answered in a live Q&A. That might be the most valuable part. Spots are limited. Sign up for free at everydollar.com slash webinar. Joseph is

with us in Fort Worth, Texas. Hi Joseph, how are you? Hey Dave, hey Rachel, how are you all doing today? I'm doing pretty well, can't complain. Cool, how can we help? So I wanted to get your guys' opinion on bonds. I'm just starting to, I feel like I've just dipped my toe into stocks and things like that. But I looked into oil and gas bonds, and I don't know if that's a good route. I have about $500 in my HSA that I

want to use to invest in that. I have more money to invest but I'm just asking specifically I guess about that and then any other advice you have on just stocks and trading in general. Okay I don't buy bonds. The bond market in general is almost as volatile as the stock market and doesn't return as well. So it's pitched in the financial world as being safer than the stock market but the actual data says it's not much safer. The volatility in the bond

market comes from shifting interest rates and so I have avoided bonds. I don't own a single bond. And I've got millions of dollars in the market. I don't own any single stocks because I don't like risk. I own mutual funds. A mutual fund is 90 to 200 different stocks. My HSA is in mutual funds because I've never actually used it. I bought the HSA the very first year that George W. Bush put that program out and I

filled it completely full every year ever since and I've never touched it. Whatever medical we've had has been very minor and I've just paid it out of my pocket and that basically has become a yet another retirement account that is growing tax-free for medical use and above 65 which will happen in September I can pull it out with only paying taxes on it no penalties as if it were a retirement account so I'm going to continue to fund that and I'm not even going to pull it out at 65. But anyway, so all of that to say I invest in mutual funds. And I so if I put, I don't know, 100,000 bucks into the market, 0% in single stocks, 0% in bonds, 100% in a growth,

in a type of growth stock mutual fund of some kind or another and that's going to be 90 to 200 stocks in there and so I've not bet the volatility from single stocks comes from the lack of diversification meaning that if you put a hundred thousand bucks in one company whatever that company does causes you to take your breath away positively or negatively And so it's a lot more risk. But if you're, if you're instead of being in one company you're in two, then if one company goes crazy the other one's sitting there you got less risk. If you're in 200, you've way limited the risk and the only risk you're riding is just the risk of the general stock market as

a whole then and not simply betting the farm on one particular company based on your golfing buddy's hunch, which is how most people play single stocks. And so I don't trade stocks on a daily basis. I don't trade mutual funds on a daily basis. I have the buy and hold tortoise in the tortoise and the hare. The slow and ugly guy wins the race every time. I'm perfectly content being the slow and ugly guy because I win the race every time. Yeah, and I think that's the hard message for,

I wanna say maybe the younger you are, the harder it is to be like, okay, this isn't exciting. You know what I mean? Like there's all these things happening and it's like, ooh, I could make a return there, do this thing. There's like this like game to it. And when there's not really a-

Well there's this temptation to be a player. Yeah, well when there's not a game to it and you just kind of just keep investing and that's it. It's just boring as crap. Like there's just not that much excitement around it. Usually you're gonna end up having perseverance. If you're investing as exciting, you're gonna end up having perseverance.

If you're investing is exciting, you're doing it wrong. It's kind of depressing, I mean seriously, it is a little bit like... If your broke friends are impressed with your investing, you're probably doing it wrong. You know? Because it's always some broke guy that runs up to me and goes, I know this guy that put ten million dollars in Bitcoin. I'm like, yeah. Yeah, I bet you do I bet you don't too. I bet you're full of crap, you know And seriously this people just come up with this stuff. They pull it out of their ear people that aren't really doing well and

You know, there are so many trends and so many things that kind of come and go and so it is the longevity Of what you're putting your money into as well, which means it's been around for so long that no one really talks about it because it's that boring, it's not new and exciting. And so it's- Don't you wish you bought a single family house on East Ridge Drive in Antioch, Tennessee,

a suburb of Nashville in 1978 that I sold a guy when I was 18 years old, got my real estate license, I sold one of my high school buddies a house for $42,250. This is why we hate the boomers. Do you know what that house is worth now? This is why we're so mad at y'all. You know what that house is worth right now?

Yeah, don't you wish. But see, that's what you wanna, That's who you wanna be. No one ever told you that this was gonna be, you know, that you're going to make, make a million dollars in 20 minutes. But in 40 years, you did make a million dollars because that's what that house is worth now. Yeah. Yeah. So by the way, it's an old house now. So it's a really old house. It's still worth a lot though. Antique.. Yeah, but I mean that's just a cute little brick house,

nothing fancy for those. Okay, so for Joseph, so you're saying mutual funds, but something else that I feel like people are talking more and more about is like Vanguard index funds, like more the S&P and all of that too. That's been talked about for a while. Vanguard was started by John Bogle because he discovered that some 60% of the mutual funds do not outperform

the standard and poor index. And he said, if I just put it in the index, I beat six out of 10 times, I beat the average mutual fund out there. And people that follow that, that is literally passive investing. People that follow that, we call them Bogle heads, they call themselves Bogle heads.

And he started Vanguard, the whole Vanguard company on that basis, and it's very successful. And I invest in the S&P some. I park money there, like when I'm piling up cash to get rid of it, I do the next real estate deal. When I make some money at Ramsey and I'm just putting it somewhere for a year or whatever, will I get enough to do the next deal?

And I'll park it though over there. But in my retirement accounts, I can find mutual funds that outperform the S&P, and I have consistently for 30 years, outperformed the S&P, and it's really not rocket science. But there's only 40% of them. So you just gotta look and go, does this thing outperform the S&P?

It's right there in the dead gun prospectus. It shows up on the website. It shows up when you're sitting with your financial advisor. And that's within your HSA 401K, Roth, like all the just standard retirement investing. So Joseph, 15% of your income, be putting in all of that. And then if you max all that out one day, because you have a high income,

then there's other things. It's the shortest distance to a million dollars. It's the shortest distance to wealthy. It's not bonds, it's not single stocks, it's not day trading, it's not crypto. There's no data that says it is. The only data says 401k Roth IRA loaded with good growth stock mutual funds and get your house paid off. That's what all the wealth building data says for the first one to five million dollars worth of net worth. And the people that have one to 10 million dollar net worth

that we studied in the millionaire study, that's what we found over and over and over again. We did not find them playing trends, we did not find them playing fads, they were not gold bugs, they were not bitcoin boys, bitcoin bros, they were not any of that. They were just like,, Bitcoin bros. They were not any of that. They were just like, they're the tortoise.

The boring, steady, every month the money comes out of my check into the 401k and I got a match. And then they call us at 58 and they're like, well, we're looking to retire. How much is in the 401k? And they're like, well, we're looking to retire. How much is in the 401k? And they're like, 800,492. You know what I mean?

And then our Roth has this and you're like, holy crap. Well done. There you are. And they call the show every day and every weekend they have for 30 years. So that's the end of that speech, Joseph. Thanks for letting me step up onto the old Apple box and just give it a yell. This is the Ramsey Show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships.

Open phones here at 888-825-5225. Donovan is with us in West Palm Beach, Florida. Hi, Donovan, how are you? I'm doing well, how are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Hey, so I really appreciate you guys taking my call and I am calling because I am currently 22. I just turned 22 and I have a real estate

business that from the time I started in about three and a half years ago was doing really well. We were bringing in lots of money and everything was going great up until about this year where revenue dropped off significantly. What kind of real estate business? You're a real estate broker? No, residential investment like fix and flip. You fix and flip and you're 22 years old and your You fix and flip and you're 22 years old and your revenues have been going up consistently for three and a half years. Well, until this year. Okay, why did they slow down this year? the market really slowed down a lot and we were, you know, going from bringing in about a million to a million three every month from all

the deals. So now bringing in like, you know, three to 400,000 per month. And I'm struggling to keep up with, you know, paying all the expenses like, you know, servicing the loans, paying the team, paying the subcontractors that are doing work on the house. Thankfully I've never missed payroll or anything like that. And I've never been late on my loans.

However, I definitely feel the struggle in a few more months of this, that reserves are gonna be completely wiped out. This is like Dave 30 years ago. I feel like you just described a little bit what you used to do. That's why I actually called you guys because I heard Dave mentioned a similar situation. So you own how much real estate?

So right now I did the math yesterday, just over 15 million. And it's all for sale? It's not all for sale. Some properties are still under renovations, but some are for sale already. Okay, $15 million in property doesn't generate a million dollars profit a month. Yes, but we did about 80 houses last year and that's not in like, you know, just straight revenue from selling the houses. That's just gross what we brought in, what comes into the bank. So that's not profit, that's gross. Correct.

So you're just churning money. Okay, so $12 million in total churn was what you were doing and now you're not, you now the rate of churn has slowed down. Is that what we're saying? Yes. The houses are taking much longer to sell. Um, the budgets are, you know, getting over spent. What's your baseline overhead running you a month? So as far as overhead, the paying my office staff and marketing and everything, we're about

50 to 60 grand a month depending on the month. However, with paying all the subcontractors and servicing the loans I have on the property, we're about 650,000. Mm-hmm. Okay. Um, yeah, you've discovered the downside of debt in doing this. Yeah, I think that's pretty good. And so, what you've, yeah, you got your butt in a crack. Um, hmm. Well, you're going to do two things to survive because you're also not as profitable as you thought you were. Once you started actually net, net, net, actual taxable income for all these dollars that you're spending is not, it's not been worth it because you're leveraged to your freaking eyeballs. So, um, yeah. Hmm. Are you married?

Uh, no. Good. Okay. Um, well, I mean, there's three levers to pull to survive. Um survive one is you get your volume moving again and no kidding you already knew that and two is you start dropping some prices on these properties to move them quickly to increase the velocity of the turn because your velocity your turn velocity is what's killing you and so you and so and that's a function of price right now and so you're going to start having some you're gonna put some stuff on sale and you're gonna pick which ones I'm you know which ones I've got the most margin in then I can take them or which ones I can move that are

price-sensitive neighborhoods that I can move quickly and get out of and start turning these out and as your subcontractors are finishing you're gonna start trimming that by 30 or 40% Until you get you're gonna build your volume up more carefully next time But you're gonna get this thing down to half a volume of what it was and make it profitable and then move towards a debt-free Process and start doing these flips with debt-free Do a fourth as many and do them debt-free and you've got a sustainable business the business you have is not sustainable It's going to come down around your ears before it's over And you're just starting to see the cracks in the armor right now in the theories that you're running off of

You're doing tremendous volume what the volume are doing is very impressive For a 22 year old I mean this if you're telling me the truth on these numbers in your and your story is the truth and I don't have any reason to believe it's not, it's very impressive what you've done, but you did ignore the risk that you were taking with the leverage. But the amount of work you've been doing and generating is very impressive. You're turning 80 freaking houses a year. I mean that's... Yeah, thank you. I appreciate that. And if you can do that, instead do 30 with zero debt, you've got a sustainable business, move a little slower, and you've got something that no matter what the economy does, it doesn't take you out. One little bump. I mean the Fed does an interest rate adjustment half a point up and they did not do that today or an eighth of a point up today and you'd be in a if that had happened today instead of them

keeping it even today you'd be in an even bigger mess than you are you understand right? Yes, yeah definitely. Thank God it's continuing to trend at least a little bit down and as long as those rates trend down a little bit you're going to be there. I'm surprised West Palm Beach has dropped 70% in your volume. I'm really shocked that the market slowed down that far there. It's not slowed down that much many places. Not year over year.

Yeah, and where we are, we are a bit north. Yeah, but not year over year. I mean year over year that volume drop is 70% drop year-over-year because 24 was not that much different than 25 now if you said over 20 24 sorry yeah if you said it was a 70% drop over the year 2020 yeah or 21 you know where people were coming out and the volume was huge and the prices increases. So, anyway, get your volume up, lower your prices, start shedding subs as you finish these jobs and quit carrying the burden of all of them.

You may have to shed some office staff. I was going to say the office side. You may have to get that down, but you've got to get this nut where you can keep it cracked every month, whether it's overhead nut or variable expenses associated with the deals, and then that'll get you out. But everything's on sale starting today. You got to have a sale. And you got to get, because that's going to get your velocity back up and maybe you can turn the corner for crashes down around your head.

I hope you can. Because what you've done is impressive. It's just sad you did it the way you did it. So it's going to come hit you in the face. The work you're doing is amazing. If you've been trying to describe this Ramsey stuff to one of your friends or relatives and you know it's a mouthful, we'll help you. We've got the Ramsey 101 playlist.

Helps you get started. Ramsey 101. Ent entry level class, right? And we've got several clips on there like what are the baby steps, how to pay off debt using the debt snowball, how to work with your spouse, how to build an emergency fund and more. The most asked questions, kind of the best of so to speak.

And the get started list as well, it's the 101. So click the link at the top of the show notes to open Ramsey 101 playlist on YouTube, then text it or DM it or send it to a group chat. Just say, hey, I think this might help. If you're listening on radio, just jump on the YouTube channel and you could find the playlist featured there. One share, one step can change everything for one person in your life. Thank you for doing that. It's all free, by the way. Mary's in Tallahassee, Florida. Hi, Mary. How are you?

I'm well, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? So, my ex-husband and I accumulated a significant amount of tax debt. We are divorced. A couple years ago, a federal tax lien was placed on the home. Uh, the home has now been sold. Uh, I do not live in that home, but, um,

I was under the impression upon research on the IRS website that a federal tax lien, if it's placed on a home at the closing, the amount that is owed should be taken out, uh, that is owed to the IRS at the closing. Otherwise the title is not clear. That did not happen. My ex-husband was aware of the lien, the closing attorney was aware of the lien and they both walked away and it did not get settled. And so I don't know if I have a leg to stand on. I don't know what to do here. Well, the funds were dispersed to who? To my ex-husband. It's because he then owned the house out of the divorce.

Because he got that house out of the divorce. Yes. The lien is on both of you? Apparently right now I've had many many many conversations with the IRS and I can't... The lien is on him, I think, but you know the notice of federal tax lien that we got in the mail, I have a copy of it, you know it has both of our liens. What was the lien from? Who didn't pay taxes? Well, it was both of us combined. I know. Both of you didn't pay taxes? Correct. I mean, because it was a large amount owed and we just couldn't do it.

Were you self-employed and he failed to do the the obligatory you know quarterly taxes and so that did not help matters and that well but i mean so how much is the tax lien uh... we owe about sixty five thousand okay and how much of that was on his income that he produced?

That I am unsure of based, you know that I do not know why I mean you should have a theory Were you working a salary job? Yes Were you not having taxes withheld on your salary job? Of course I wasn't I even had additional taxes taken out Okay So he was working he was working as a business and was not filing his quarterlies and not filing taxes or not paying his taxes on his business. That's where this came from, right? Well, some of the years, not all of them. Some of the years I'm not sure why we owed so much, to be honest with you, Dave. But we were on a payment plan for a while, then you know we got divorced,

the payment plan, we stopped carrying on carrying on financial stress now I've looked into getting on another payment plan and that payment plan is going to be way too much a month to afford the IRS is not trying to collect from you the IRS is not trying to collect from me I mean I do have my own personal debt from last year. It's a wasteful amount. No, I'm talking about on this particular lien amount. No. They don't even act like you're there.

I'm assuming no. But then when I go onto the IRS website, it does talk about a lien. But then when I call them... the irish website it does talk about aline but then when i call them aline is not a if your husband if they're chasing your husband they would have put aline against anything that had his name on it this house used to also have your name on it but that doesn't mean you're liable for the taxes necessarily were y'all doing

marriage filing jointly well that's what that's the only reason it would have your name on it. You probably could escape using innocent spouse provision. You need some tax advice from a pro that can get into this instead of you talking to the IRS because I mean you're talking to a kid in a cubicle at the IRS. Exactly exactly. And a different one every time you call. Oh yeah and it takes hours each time. Yeah so no I'm not doing that anymore. You need to hire somebody.

What do you make now? Money-wise? Yeah. Oh, I make a very decent living. What do you make now? I make $105,000. Okay, good. So you make enough to call,

jump online at ramsaysolutions.com and click on ELP for taxes, endorse local provider for taxes, find the person we endorse for taxes in Tallahassee, Florida, go sit down with them and tell them the story and tell them to get to the bottom of it and give them 500 bucks and they'll do it. Okay. That's what you've got to do.

I don't know, I can't tell what happened with this house. I've done a bazillion real estate transactions that had IRS liens on them and 100% of them got paid because the title's simply not clear. Well, that's what I was wondering. I'm like, who, why they? I don't know how this happened. If it was purposeful, accidental, sloppy, was it like, how did that not happen?

The buyer would have needed a title insurance policy. Right, if they went, yeah, yeah. Especially if they got a mortgage. They would have been required to get a title insurance policy. You can't get title insurance on something with an IRS lien on it. And so that's what's weird here. So something I think your husband's feeding, your ex-husband's feeding you a lot of bull

crap is what I think. What do you think? You think he paid it and he's lying to her? I don't know what happened. But she, I don't, what she described would be. So hard to pull off. It would be just ludicrous for the closing attorney to allow a seller to sign a warranty deed or a special warranty deed knowing there's an IRS lien against this house, knowing the title is not clear.

That would just be so messed up. I just can't believe it happens. I mean, there's no way to get around this and it turned out good for everybody. A title insurance company is gonna come down, you know, they're not gonna allow it. So I just, something different is happening than what she thinks is happening.

That's what I can't tell. So anyway, get somebody to help you get to the bottom of it, Mary. It's possible that they're simply are not after you and it's not your problem. And that's my hope. that's what I hope you find when you get to the bottom of it Roy is in Iowa hi Roy welcome to the Ramsey show hi Roy mr. Ramsey thank you so much for yeah can you hear me sure what's up pretty good great thank you for answering my phone call, Mr. Ramsey.

I have a trucking company I've been running for the past one year. So I started with one heavy duty truck and then added a couple more trucks as well. So everything was good but there were a lot of hiccups and all that good stuff. So just a couple of months ago one of my trucks burned down. You know the driver just sent me a video, the truck was set on fire and all that good stuff. You know it was very horrible but you know the reason I'm calling is because I'm most of the time stressed out about this business. Not because a lot of people complain about the market I am not complaining

about the market you know I'm very satisfied with whatever the rates are being provided I mean there are enough to see the stomachs pay the bills and you know keep the show running but what I'm concerned about is the breakdowns of the trucks in this industry I mean they can cost you a lot of money sometimes 20 grand 30 grand even go worse So what you need to do when you close the books each month and you determine what your profits are, you need to start having a line item in your monthly budget that sets aside money for future repairs. So a percentage of your profits,

a large percentage of your profits at your stage of business, 20-30 percent of your profits before your stage of business, 20-30% of your profits before you take it home to eat. Quit acting like you made that much money because you haven't yet until you paid for the repairs. So if you make $10,000 a month I want you to set $3,000 aside or $4,000 aside or whatever 30% or 40% is for repairs. I want you to build a repair war chest and it's called retained earnings in business and so build up your emergency fund inside your business but you do that by setting a set percentage of your profits each month

as if it was an expense because it is a future expense and you're just setting the money back for it. When tackling your debt or building wealth, people can sometimes forget about the defense while they're playing offense and that's called insurance. Having the right coverage as opposed to too little or too much can impact how long it takes to get out of debt. Skimping on insurance might seem like saving, but when life happens it's easy to fall back into debt without the right safety net. The right insurance acts as a shield. The wrong insurance acts as a drain on your budget. So how do you know if you got the

right coverage? We have a free coverage checkup. It's a free, did I mention it's free, online resource that creates personalized insurance action plan. RamseySolutions.com slash checkup. To take the coverage checkup, click the link in the description if you're on podcast or YouTube. Don't miss this. Did I mention it's free? Haley's in New York City. Hi Haley, how are you? Hi, how are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? So, to get to the point, I'm kind of calling in just to see if it's possible for me to become a stay at home mom.

There are some other factors outside of that that will affect it. And I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to a lot of this stuff, just because all I've ever known is to work, but it's seeming to cost me more going into work than it is to not. Um, one of my children is going to be potentially going in for brain surgery within the next month and she's going to have to need one of her parents home obviously after for the care. Um, and I'm really stressing out about it because, um,

I get paid bi-weekly and I just brought home a $500 paycheck, um, a bi-weekly paycheck and it went to pretty much nothing because everything is so expensive nowadays. Um, and my fiance is switching jobs at the end of the month to make us more money. And I'm just wondering if it would at all be possible because we do have two vehicle loans. That's about the only debt that we have, uh, together. We are not married. Other than he does owe some, I think, $3,000 to the government.

But that's been on my mind lately, just more because of the surgery that is upcoming. And I just need to know where to go at this point with the plan of everything and the plan of action. Okay. What does he make on? He makes 25 an hour where he is currently that will be increasing. You're in New York city. Well, we are actually, um, quite a bit upstate from New York city.

I didn't think you're in Manhattan on $25 an hour. Oh no. Okay. Um, No, I didn't think you're in Manhattan on $25 an hour. Oh, no. Okay. Um, no, I currently make $20 and 50 cents an hour, but I work pretty. What does he, what does he do? He's a welder. And how old is he? He's 24 as well as he only making $25 as a welder. It should be 50. That yeah, I'm not sure about that either. I had questioned that,

but I guess it's something to do with a union. So we'll leave the union and go be a freelance welder and make $50. Right. I'm dead serious. Okay. That's what I had said too. So you guys are 24 you have a brand new baby. How old is your baby that's having surgery? She just turned one. I have two older kids as well, okay all with him No, okay. Is she his? Yes All right Well, I'm gonna

Help you with the money question And then I'm gonna give you some advice that you didn't ask for from just an old guy that that loves you, okay? Okay, it's irresponsible that you didn't ask for from just an old guy that loves you, okay? Okay. It's irresponsible for him and you to not be married when you have a child facing a brain surgery. I understand. Get married this weekend. Okay.

You, my darling, are extremely vulnerable right now. Right. And Rachel and I have taken calls from people over and over where something like this happens and the guy jets. Okay. And I'm not accusing your guy of that. Okay. Right.

I want to protect you and this child because, and I want him to prove he's going to be there and I want him to put a ring on it this weekend. Right. Okay. That's going to help you. want him to put a ring on it this weekend. Right. Okay. That's gonna help you. That's the old guy advice. Okay.

Okay. And then I want him to get a better job. Okay. The answer to the question is can you stay at home? Well, for the short term, you don't have a choice. You're gonna be at home. Right. And y'all are gonna have to figure it out.

He may have to work three jobs. You may have to work some side gigs when he's at home. Sell these cars so you don't have payments every month. Yeah. How about you may have to sell some cars and get rid of these car payments. But you know, you're gonna have to do some stuff because this kid, child's care, the care of this child is number one. Agreed? Correct. Yes. So the answer to your question over all mathematically can I stay at home with the kids, like a permanent decision is yes, as soon as you can live on his income. Right. That's the math, isn't it?

So we've got to do a budget based on his income, meaning that we can pay our rent, we can eat, we can do lights, pay car payments or get rid of the car payments. We have to create a life that is within his income and then you can stay at home mathematically without creating a mess. As a permanent decision, as a short term decision, you're going to be at home. Right.

Because you've got to take care of a brain surgery situation. I just took two weeks off of work because the other issue that we had been dealing with was about two months ago, my daughter was also assaulted at daycare. So we had to find a different daycare provider and then we lost the second one. So I do have, as of right now, two weeks off of work until somebody else can start. And that's mainly what's been freaking me out a little bit is trying to make the decision of whether or not just to stay home because I drive a Tahoe and I work 45 minutes away from my house.

So between that and child care. What do you owe on the two cars? Well, we have a van and we have a Tahoe. The Tahoe is about 25,000 because I rolled over from a vehicle that I had to trade in and he owes about 13,000 on the van. The Tahoe is killing y'all. Yeah. So we got to get it sold and we got to get that debt paid off and that's going to involve income coming from one or both of you and then that's going to enable you to fit your life within his income and his income has to come up for that to happen.

That's what I think the math is going to tell you. What do you do for a living? I work in a medical laboratory at a hospital, but I only work three days a week as of right now. Okay, I was wondering if there's you know a way that you guys tag guys tag team this where he works all day, comes home, tags you in possibly and you go do a shift or two, right? Right. Maybe twice a week or something. Like if you guys can tag team each other just to bring in some income for this time to get

this stuff paid off. Because if you don't have any car payments, you can fit your life within his income a lot quicker and the way you get there is create extra income on short term. Right. And that's what we're... Is the surgery date has it been set Haley? It has not yet. She has an MRI this Friday morning. So you'll know more information probably after that. Yes. Okay. Yep. Well the primary thing I want out of the whole discussion is for the baby to be taken care of. And the secondary thing is to take care of the short-term time that you're off work.

And then the third thing is to answer the question of what must be true that's not true today for us to be able to live on his income. And that would probably be getting rid of the Tahoe debt, getting rid of his car debt, getting his income up. That's probably when you sit down to do your budget what you're gonna figure out. Because I don't know that you're gonna do this on $25 an hour from one person. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know that you're ready and have three kids. I just I don't know that you're gonna be able to do it. You're probably not breaking even on daycare and Tahoe payments, so I agree with you on that,

with you working three days a week. So you're probably not losing much by losing that job if you lose the Tahoe payment by getting it sold and or, you know, even if you have to finance the difference as a standalone personal loan. And that to cover the upside down amount. Yeah, but I would really talk to him, Haley, and look at some options,

because this is a, I mean, it's a pretty vital situation you guys are in. I mean, like we were saying, you don't have a choice. After she comes home from surgery, yeah, you have to be there to take care of her. So there's choices that we all have to make in a situation like this that we don't want. So even if he wants to stay where he is, he may not have a choice.

He may have to leave the union and go figure out something else. You know, so. Make more money. As a welder, he can make more than 25 for sure. I'm so sorry though. It's a lot. Wow. You had a lot on you, kiddo.

Our scripture of the day Proverbs 10 for lazy hands make for poverty, but diligent hands bring wealth. Andrew Tobias said, you want 21% interest risk-free pay off your credit card work Danielle is in Salt Lake City hey Danielle what's up hey good how are you better than I deserve how can we help hey so um my husband and I to keep it short and sweet we applied for this program. It's basically a rent to own program sponsored by the state. It is a 15 year term and we cannot buy the home until the end of that term but essentially all of our rent payments would go towards equity on that home. My hold up is that we'll be basically renting for 15 years and we

are only in baby step two right now so we don't have an emergency fund but our debt is only like six thousand dollars so not a ton. Okay I think your hold up was a good analysis. I would not do this. No? No, not under any circumstances would I do this. No, I would get out of debt, I'd build an emergency fund, I'd start saving for a down payment on a house.

No, I would not rent for 15 years on purpose. Yeah, so much changes Danielle in 15 years, if you think about it, life. I mean, it's just crazy. Think about 15 years ago for you, right? I mean, just it is, and to be locked into something. If you never close on it, 100% of the money went to rent.

For 15, I mean. Well, I mean, our rent payment right now would be the exact same. If you never close on it, 100% of it went to rent. I'll give you a 100% chance you never close on it. You're not going to stay there 15 years. Too much happens in life. Crap, the roof on the thing will be 15 years old, the dishwasher will be 15 years old, stuff's gonna start breaking left and right.

That's if it's brand new when you move in it. Uh, Danielle, why did you guys- It is a brand new home. Why did y'all, why did y'all decide this and not just have a mortgage and build equity on your own? And why, why are you guys using this program? Um, well, we were building a savings account and trying to save up money, but we had a baby. So all of our emergency funds went to paying that down and we're still kind of working

on that. Yeah. Good. I love it. So you get that last $6,000 clear, you build the emergency fund and then you go buy a, you start saving for a house. How old are you? I'm 23 and my husband is 24.

Yeah. Please don't do this. Well, the thing is we can get out of the rent program. We're not signing for 15 years. Good. Don't sign up it. Don't sign anything else. Just don't do it at all. Please don't do it. It's not not good it's not good for you. You called NASS I'm gonna tell you the truth the how do I visualize 33 year old Danielle in her best life it's not ten years into a 15 year rent program I can tell you that. You could be so much better off Danielle. Yeah you'll be so much better off at 33. Yes, I mean, seriously, think about it.

It's gonna take you guys a couple of years. Don't rush into a house. You guys are fine. You got time. Brent, get yourself in a position and then actually start building money for you. Like, as you guys start, when you finally buy a house for you guys,

how long that's going for you. If you buy a house in four years, that's 11 years sooner than the plan you're talking about. And people are paying off their homes in seven to nine years using this program. So you could have a paid off house, completely yours. Before this, before you would even be buying this other one. Yes, yes.

No, no, no, no, no. There's a reason these programs exist, Danielle. It's because people are not in good financial situations to buy houses. So don't buy a house. Yeah. It's you guys, don't do it. You're not ready yet.

I think all the lights are flashing. Just. You've got plenty of time to do this. Yes, yes. Please, please don't buy a house. That's you guys, don't do it. You're not ready yet. I think all the lights are flashing. You've got plenty of time to do this. Please, please don't do it. Please, don't do it. Your instinct, the wisest thing you said is, the thing that's bothering me is, I'm going to be renting the whole time. And that really, really, really means a lot.

It should be bothering you. And this may not be the case But I'm just say it out loud because I see it Salt Lake City it's kind of become a like a small little LA the amount of lifestyle and Wealth and keeping up out of that city. It's pretty unbelievable So like I don't know if there's any level of comparison Danielle of what you're living in is everyone's like just doing really well around you I don't know, but I see more and more of that you're living in is everyone's like just doing really well around you. I don't know, but I see more and more of that.

Really? Coming out of Salt Lake. Yes. No idea. Yes. I should get out more. Joseph is in Columbia, South Carolina. Hey Joseph, what's up? Hey, how's it going? Better than I deserve.

How can I help? Yeah, I'm calling to, I'm trying to decide if it would be a good idea to sell my paid off truck to help pay off some debts and start a good savings. How much is the truck worth? I've gotten one estimate and it was for 21,000. And what do you, what do you make a year? I'm, I'm gonna sell 47,000 a year.

You broke up, I'm sorry, you make what a year? 47,000. 47,000. Okay, yeah, your phone's messing up. 47,000 and you have a 20,000 hour truck, okay. Are you single? I have a girlfriend. Okay, you're single.

How old are you? 22. Okay, single or married are the two options. Okay So you're in a relationship. You're 22. You're you're dating someone that's cool. And you have a $20,000 truck It's pay for how much debt have you got? I Have 4200 to the IRS and 2000 on a credit card before I heard about you. Okay. How did you get behind the IRS at 22 years old?

So last year I took a job as a contractor so I was basically self-employed and Just taxes is how I have that debt. Yeah, are you now? No, no, I changed jobs and now I'm on a W-2 So if you ever were a contractor again, you know how to handle it so that doesn't happen again right? Yes, lessons learned. Good, okay good. So both of these are lessons learned. Okay, so 6,200 47,000. You like the truck? I do, I

I really like it but I'm just trying to think long-term what would be better for me. I appreciate the maturity of that statement but for $6, but I'm just trying to think long-term what would be better for me I appreciate the maturity of that statement, but for $6,000 I would not sell a $20,000 truck that I like. I wouldn't either. When I am making 47 I would rather work three or four weekends and some overtime and live on beans and rice and not see the inside of a restaurant and my date be throwing frisbee for a while and Let's get these 6,000 knocked out real real real fast I'd rather do that than sell my truck okay cuz I like my truck too by the way I'm not selling it so drove it today yeah yeah definitely something I wasn't really ecstatic to do but I was just

thinking you know maybe yeah things to. I would rather you get control of your budget and tighten it up and that's a good lesson that'll help you anyway in case this dating relationship gets more serious and that's a lesson that'll help you become a millionaire by the time you're 30 and all those kinds of things. Yeah versus like a sweeping just I'll sell one thing and just fix everything, fix the issue. Yeah. Where there's something about. I do think you've learned both your lessons on these two things I'm not worried about that part of it but I love the idea of you gutting this out by pinching your dollars and making them scream. Yeah. And then that gets you that also has the benefit of letting you keep a really nice truck. And I'm pretty cool with all that.

But she's gonna have to put up with you being a cheapskate for a month or two while you knock this out. And that's probably a pretty good relationship test anyway. To see if she sticks around. Jason calls back and says he's single. Then we know we messed that one up for you, Joseph. Well, it wouldn't be the first time I've messed one up for you, Joseph.

I'm sure she's great. Well, it wouldn't be the first time I messed it up for somebody. I'm pretty good at that. Yeah, but no, it's a good thought though, because people sometimes ask on a larger scale, should I sell my house to get out of $40,000 of debt and all of that? Not usually. Yep, not usually. Usually you're better off to work your way out of it, unless there's some other reason to sell the house. Other reason to sell the truck.

I hate the truck. Well, it sells stupid thing anyway, but no. He likes his truck. And so I'm pretty good with that. Pretty good with that. Good show Rachel. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.