The Ramsey Show - App - Sacrifice Now To Secure Your Financial Future

Starting point is 00:00:00 This is the Ramsey Show where America comes to have a conversation about their money, their profession, and their relationships. We're so excited to have you with us alongside the incomparable, the Natalie Attire George Campbell. I'm Ken Coleman. The phone number to jump in today is 888-825-5225, 888-825-5225. It's a Friday, George, and you know. Welcome home. It's good to be back. You and the crew have been at Entree Leadership Summit. Entree Leadership Summit, our signature leadership event. Always fun and just a joy. So let's get right to it, shall we?

Starting point is 00:00:48 Alex is in Seattle, Washington. Alex, how could we help today? Thank you so much for both of you taking my call. And I'm sorry if I sound a little nervous. I'm 60 years old. I'm being quiet fired from my job. And I don't know if I'm going to be able to find work, and so I'm trying to figure out what my next steps could be. What do you do right now?

Starting point is 00:01:15 I do, I work for a home care agency, and I do billing, payroll, scheduling, and I hire. Okay. I've been doing that for two years. Jack of all trades. Yeah, but very administratively gifted I'm gathering. Yes. You see details and checklists and you go through them like a lawnmower, right?

Starting point is 00:01:35 I do. Okay. The reason I stopped and kind of focused on that is I want you to understand how valuable you are in the marketplace right now. There are just always going to be companies, small businesses who need somebody like you, who could wear a lot of different hats, as George pointed out, but you're just so valued because your ability to come in and take details and what might be a bit of a mess and clean

Starting point is 00:01:59 it up. Does that still feel right to you? It does. Okay. So that's the narrative. That's the mental language you need to be using for yourself as you begin to start looking aggressively. I'm assuming you're looking for other jobs right now given that you feel you're being quiet fired. Yes, I've been looking for work and then I've been

Starting point is 00:02:21 looking at maybe starting something, you know, that I don't know if I'm too old. What do you mean by starting something? Start starting a small, like starting my own small business and doing this for other, instead of just doing it for one agency, doing it for, you know, I like that. People that want to start this.

Starting point is 00:02:43 I like it, I think it's both and though. In other words, if we can find something here soon to create a bridge for you, in other words, no interruption in payment, we get out of the current situation that we're in, and then we get stable by just walking right to something else and then begin to contract yourself out and build that to where you can be very, very successful over the next eight, 10 years. And I want George to jump in here on the retirement question. But one other quick question, what makes you feel like you're being quiet fired? So, a few months ago, I worked for this company for 10 years now, but a year and a half ago it was sold.

Starting point is 00:03:29 The person that has it now stopped talking to me about three months ago. I'm shunned in the office. People just kind of walk around. The whole, I can feel it in the air. Meetings I used to be included in, I can feel it in there. The meetings I used to be included in, I'm no longer included. I'm being needed to do the thing I'm doing, but you really get the feeling that I'm not valued. People say I'm not valued.

Starting point is 00:03:59 Yeah, I'm so sorry, Alex. And here's what I want you to hear. The good news, this is all bad news, except there's one little silver lining in this I'm gathering. And the silver lining is that they're not brave enough to actually fire you. They're cowards. And you're still, and they're not hampering you from doing your job, correct? Did I pick up on that?

Starting point is 00:04:20 Correct. Okay, so here's the deal. So Alex, here's the deal. This sucks. I'm not going to try to Alex, here's the deal. This sucks. I'm not gonna try to put a, I'm not gonna try to put lipstick on a pig here. Okay, this sucks. This speaks to why I'm in the work that I am, because this is an example, folks, of what it feels like when you aren't valued at work. It's soul sucking. It leads to burnout because you're a human being. All of this sucks, but the one piece of good news is they're not pushing you out and as long as you don't rock the boat

Starting point is 00:04:49 I think they'll probably just wait you out. So let's play their game So let's flip this thing and now you become you you do your job But you are every extra second you have at night You were you were now treating a full-time second job as getting the next gig and do exactly what the advice that I gave you. But I wanna, you got what I'm saying? I do. Aggressive, aggressive.

Starting point is 00:05:13 And don't worry, don't try to fix this situation. It's not fixable, but let's take advantage of it in that they're not pushing you out. And I gave you what I think your next steps are, but I wanna bring George in for the retirement question cause George, I don't want her to get panicked in this situation. I want you to give her some coaching here

Starting point is 00:05:29 on how she could prepare and where she's at. Give us a sense, give George a sense where you're at today in retirement. So I have 60th, I don't have an IRA or any actual plan. So let me just start by saying that. And that keeps me up as night. I just didn't do it. any actual plans. So let me just start by saying that and I, I, that keeps me up as night. I just didn't do it. I just didn't do what I needed to do. I have 60,000 in savings.

Starting point is 00:05:53 I have $2,000 in credit card debt. I own one home outright. Um, whenever I looked at that on, you know, one of those sites, it goes anywhere from 700 to 800k. And then I have a second home with a current mortgage of, and on that I owe $279,000 on that house. Is it being rented? Yes.

Starting point is 00:06:18 My son currently lives in it and he rents it. He's good about that. I want to try to keep it. Is he paying market rent? Like what's your total expenses versus what he's paying? So the total expenses to do that home is, to manage that home is about 4,000. The mortgage, utilities, all of those kinds of things

Starting point is 00:06:39 just to live in there and he pays that. I don't make anything, but I don't pay anything. Okay, that's for another time, but at least tells me that you do have some money laying around, let's say worst case, you could sell that property and use that for retirement income. Or use the rental income as retirement income.

Starting point is 00:06:57 So all is not lost here, I don't want you to give up hope, but you do need to get investing. It's wise to be diversified and not rely totally on rental income or the sale of this property to fund the rest of your life And I would pay off the credit card debt today, okay, why are you hanging on to the credit card debt? Okay, I would encourage you to pay it off and then even cut them up. Take it a step further because you don't need lenders.

Starting point is 00:07:28 You have Alex. You have Bank of Alex at your disposal. 60 grand saved. You have an income still. I would utilize that. And I feel like you have lost all of your confidence. You've lost your mojo. So part of this journey is rediscovering this new chapter for Alex.

Starting point is 00:07:44 And you keep saying, I'm too old, I'm too old. Dave Ramsey's offended. He's just a few years older than you and the man's just getting started. And so I wanna encourage you, you still have a lot of time left. If you're in good health, you could work another 10 years and really build up a sizable nest egg

Starting point is 00:07:58 and make a real impact with your career and help a lot of people along the way. Yeah, real quick, I wanted to jump in George and ask how much is the rental house worth and how much do you owe on it? Tell that real quick. I owe 279,000 on it and when I look at that, it's anywhere from four to 500,000.

Starting point is 00:08:16 I bought it when I was older. Amazing. So you're a net worth millionaire, Alex. You're not doing as bad as you think. I'd keep my chin up, go find another job, go help some people, and start investing as much as you can to get this thing paid off. Would you sell the rental house

Starting point is 00:08:31 and stick that into the retirement strategy? That would be my long-term play as a worst-case scenario. That would definitely hold on to it for now. Yeah. All right, very good. All right, Alex, listen, get your chin up, take control of the future right now, and find a place where you're valued.

Starting point is 00:08:47 It's gonna change your life. All right, Daniel's next in San Antonio, Texas. Daniel, how can we help today? Hey, thanks for taking my call. Hey, thanks for taking my call. I just have so many different lines of debt, lines of credit, and I don't know exactly when each payment's coming out or how much is coming out. I'm just wondering how I kind of get that under control. All right. Well, you're in the right place. George loves tackling multiple lines of credit. I love it.

Starting point is 00:09:27 It's like trying to untangle fishing line for you. That's a reference I don't understand, but I imagine it's difficult. That's what I know. I get the vibe. My guess is you're better at this than that. Yes, thank you. I'll stick to lines of credit.

Starting point is 00:09:40 Okay, so Daniel, how long of a period of time has this been happening? Is this years or is this a sudden life change that caused you to go into all this debt? Well it's really only been a big issue since I bought a house. So you couldn't afford the house when you got into it and then there was what, repairs, renovations, what happened? It's a brand new house So no repairs or renovations, but those door-to-door guys are pretty good. Did you get sold on solar? And a water softener Let's stop answering the door for strangers Daniel. Can you make a promise just imagine it's stranger danger and

Starting point is 00:10:26 a Kirby vacuum not the was this $4000 vacuum we got it for 1500 what a deal wow so he's got a clean house it's powered by the sun and his water saw yeah who's we me and my wife got married in January. We bought the house in December. Oh, so there's an accomplice to the crime. Yes. Okay. Are you feeling the brunt of this? How is she feeling about all these lines of credit and drowning in the payments? We are very much together on feeling the brunt of it.

Starting point is 00:11:04 We both work together a lot on getting this paid. We don't right now have an account together, which we need to do. That's something we've talked about, is getting a bank account together. But we don't really have a problem. That should have been day one. Yes.

Starting point is 00:11:22 Let's get one joint checking account that all income goes into and all expenses flow out of. That's the simplest way because right now you've overcomplicated your life. It's overwhelming. And we can help with the credit side. Have you pulled your credit report to understand everything that's out there? I'm not sure I completely understand.

Starting point is 00:11:44 I don't think I have. Okay, so the credit report will show you every single line of credit, what is owed, who holds it. So that's going to be your homework. And go to this website, annualcreditreport.com, and you can pull your credit report from the bureaus. There's three of them. Okay, annualcreditreport.com? Yes, and never pay for this. It's free to do and you can pull your report from all three bureaus, Experian, TransUnion and Equifax.

Starting point is 00:12:12 You'll see it right there on the site. So request the free reports. Once you get those, it'll give you a real clear picture of what is owed. And so it's going to show you the creditor name, the balance, the APR, the minimum monthly payment and if you can't find any of this out on the credit report, you the creditor name, the balance, the APR, the minimum monthly payment. And if you can't find any of this out on the credit report, contact the creditor to find out, hey, when is the due date? What is the minimum monthly payment? What are, you know, make sure that everything lines up,

Starting point is 00:12:35 the last four digits of the account. So you've got some administrative work to do, and then the real work begins of going, okay, we gotta clean this mess up. That's the bigger problem, right? Yes. What's the total debt amount as far as you know? Excluding the mortgage.

Starting point is 00:12:54 Excluding the mortgage? Okay, so that makes it a little easier. You can ballpark it. Is it 10 grand? Is it 100 grand? It's around 50. Okay. Around 50 grand.

Starting point is 00:13:05 And that is between the lines of credit, the things you guys went into debt for for the house, anything else? Are there cars? Are there student loans? No, no student loans. And we both have a paid off car. Okay. So you have 50 grand in debt.

Starting point is 00:13:20 What is your household income? That's kind of spotty right now. I just got a new job. I'm a waiter, so it goes up and down. But we've both made consistently anywhere from 60,000 to 70,000 each the past three years. Okay. And so you're on track to make 60,000 as a waiter this year? Okay, and so you're on track to make 60,000 as a waiter this year? Um, we set a new job. 50,000 this year.

Starting point is 00:13:50 Okay, what were you doing before making 60 or 70? I was a waiter at a nicer restaurant. And why did you downgrade? Well, the company I worked for transferred me to a struggling location and then I quit that job to become a door-to-door salesman and that worked out. What are you selling? Well, I don't do that anymore. I was selling internet.

Starting point is 00:14:19 Yeah, I was selling internet. Okay. Well, here's the key. I want you to get your income back up so that we can get out of this debt faster. Cause you're telling me right now, you guys make six figures as a couple. Just about, yeah. Yeah, Daniel, just jumping in real quick.

Starting point is 00:14:33 You need to be working as much as you possibly can. So I don't know if that's another restaurant, a better restaurant, adding two restaurant jobs, even if it's picking up two or three shifts, you gotta get more income in here to get some momentum. Okay. And as far as the plan to get rid of this debt, you and your wife are gonna sit down tonight

Starting point is 00:14:51 and you're gonna make your first budget. And we're gonna gift it to you. It's called Every Dollar. It's an app that you both can log into, have total transparency into what's going on with our finances. You're gonna list your take-home pay for the month. So you're gonna list your paychecks that are coming up.

Starting point is 00:15:04 You'll kind of have a ballpark of what those are. And then beneath that, you're gonna list all of your expenses. And to make this easy, you can look at your bank statement from the last month to show you, hey, here's what our light bill normally is, here's what our mortgage is, here's our insurance bills, all the things.

Starting point is 00:15:20 And then what you're gonna do is judiciously cut every single thing that you do not need for survival. You understand what I'm saying? Yes. So if it's not food, utility, shelter, transportation, insurance, it goes out the window. Which means we're not eating out. We're gonna cut subscriptions. We're gonna cut everything out of our life that we don't need for survival. Because right now we are in survival mode. And I wanna get you out of that.

Starting point is 00:15:45 Okay. And at the bottom you out of that. Okay. And at the bottom of that budget, you're gonna list your minimum debt payments. And that's gonna give you a really clear view of where you're at. You can list the balance and the minimum payment. And then you're gonna follow what we call the debt snowball method,

Starting point is 00:15:56 where you systematically knock out the smallest debt first while making minimum payments on the rest. And that allows you to do something you haven't been able to do in a long time, which is just focus. Focus on one thing at a time. making minimum payments on the rest. And that allows you to do something you haven't been able to do in a long time, which is just focus. Focus on one thing at a time. Do you guys have any savings right now?

Starting point is 00:16:14 We used it all while I didn't have a job. So you're down to just paycheck to paycheck and the checking account, nothing in savings. Nothing in savings. Okay, so your step one is baby step one, which is the $1,000 starter emergency fund. And that's gonna happen in the next paycheck or two, right? You guys will have $1,000 flow through your hands. Yes.

Starting point is 00:16:40 Okay, what you're gonna do is set aside the $1,000 before you start attacking this debt snowball. And what you're gonna do is ignore the interest rates. You'll know what they are, but you're gonna do is set aside the $1,000 before you start attacking this debt snowball. And what you're gonna do is ignore the interest rates. You'll know what they are, but you're gonna ignore those and just focus on the smallest balance. Can you tell me what the smallest balance is? $1,000. Perfect.

Starting point is 00:16:58 So that's your next goal. How quickly can we knock this out, making extra payments, working extra, selling stuff, doing whatever it takes? And once that's knocked out, making extra payments, working extra, selling stuff, doing whatever it takes. And once that's knocked out, you free up that payment. That payment's what, 100 bucks, 200 bucks? That minimum's $29. $29, so now you free up 29 bucks to apply to the next debt.

Starting point is 00:17:17 And you see how the snowball starts to roll and gain momentum? Yes, sir. That is the key. That's how millions have done it. That's how I did it. And I'm telling you, if you just trust the process and trust the plan, you guys will be out of this debt. I'm guessing, let's see, making 120k, you owe 50, you could probably get out of this

Starting point is 00:17:34 thing within a year. Okay. But you know what that means, right? Basic napkin math says we got to put like four grand a month towards this thing yes and you're bringing in probably eight grand a month so you see the game here it's to find as much margin as we can by spending less and making more and so every month come hell or high water we're gonna throw a four grand of this debt because we want to be done with this within a year and not be a married couple ten years down the line still in crippling debt

Starting point is 00:18:05 So hang on the line We're gonna send you every dollar premium to help you guys through this and also financial peace university So we can walk with you give you the financial literacy and the tool to apply it with that budget or rooting for you, man I like that you pulled an old phrase out. What's a hell or high water? I'm not even sure you understand it I think there's water and fire involved. There is. That's all I know. And neither one are good choices.

Starting point is 00:18:30 I like that. You gotta make something happen. Hey, how many of you out there are tired, exhausted about the paycheck to paycheck style living? You just want wanna get out of it. The hamster wheel is just wearing you out. If that's you, you gotta listen. This is an opportunity, a low, low effort, but high return. It's a free budgeting training this month.

Starting point is 00:18:58 You're gonna learn step by step how to make and stick to a budget. Using every dollar, you can get all your biggest budgeting questions answered in the live Q and A. This is free, folks. Sign up for free at everydollar.com slash webinar, everydollar.com slash webinar.

Starting point is 00:19:13 This is the way to kind of just kick the tires and take the pressure off and actually learn how to do the one thing that will change your financial life. So check it out. We'd love to see you there. Joe is up next in San Diego, California. Joe, how can we help? Well, it's going on.

Starting point is 00:19:30 Thanks for taking my call. Maybe a loaded question, but pretty much is it appropriate for me to ask an employee about their personal finances, try and dig into it to understand what to pay them in the situation that I did buy this person's book of business and it's in exchange for them having a job, steady income. All right, before we dive into that, and I'll defer to George on this one,

Starting point is 00:19:55 but I'm curious, is there not a market value range of salary that you're already aware of? And then are you asking this question in the context of that? In other words, you know the range of what the market says you should pay somebody with his or her experience and skill, or are you just sticking your thumb in the air?

Starting point is 00:20:17 So I have a general idea, and it's a lot less than what they're getting paid right now. But I also know that they're, have a lot of personal debt from their business line that we purchased. I know the person as a friend, you know, now we're just work colleagues, you know, there's not really too much friendship. But the answer is I do know, but it's kind of the struggle to keep a good workplace and make sure that they are in a sense taken care of also.

Starting point is 00:20:47 Cause I'm, you know, I'm weaning them off right now. I'm weaning them off being used to be able to live frivolously. When you said you bought the book of business, did you write them a check? How did that go down? No, so I actually acquired it for free. So it's actually, we had a document drafted

Starting point is 00:21:03 that pretty much gave us the book of business in exchange for their employment guaranteed for six months what do they get out of this so they get a job essentially they get a job he's getting paid off the bottom line he runs one of our branches we have two branches it was a big plus for us in terms of going from probably 300 to 400,000 for this year to probably a million plus in revenue. So there's a big benefit on our end. And unfortunately, he ran his business into the ground culturally, financially. So that's where we came in compliance wise. They didn't get the insurances they needed because of losses.

Starting point is 00:21:43 So you swooped in and said, hey, I'll take over and I'll give you a job. And that was the agreed upon deal? Yes. Okay. I'll tell you how we view this at Ramsey. And we never look at someone's personal finances to figure out how much we're gonna pay them.

Starting point is 00:22:00 The only reason we do a budget in the interview process is to make sure that what we pay them is enough for them to live. And so that gives them an out to say, hey listen, I'd love to take this job, but I can't afford to. We don't want people going to debt because they took on a job.

Starting point is 00:22:14 So we don't do it to say, well, they need 10,000 to live, let's pay them 10,000 a month. I think that's a different situation. So I would not base it on how much debt he has. I would base it on the value that they are bringing to the organization and what the market rate is. Because what you don't want is for them to get underpaid

Starting point is 00:22:32 to where they go, well, I can go elsewhere and make more, but I'm in this contract and stuck in this purgatory with handcuffs on. Because that's not gonna create a great employment situation for them, which is only gonna to hurt you in the end. So give me a ballpark of what you think this role would get paid. What would you pay someone else to run a branch if you hired from the outside? 75 to 80,000 based hourly with some bonus based off performance.

Starting point is 00:23:00 What were they paying themselves before you bought their business? It's hard to determine. I went into their numbers. They were pretty much paying themselves out of the business. Him and his fiancee, anywhere from $15,000 to $20,000 a month or more on big months. And you're telling me that was a poor choice based on how this business was run? He was overpaying themselves? Overpaying themselves, taking on debt they didn't need.

Starting point is 00:23:25 They didn't need, yeah, spending out of the business, haven't paid taxes in three years. So he owes back taxes for that business for all, for the last three years. Wow. Like he's mentioned, like something like 20 something thousand. But you're telling me 80K is market rate to run a branch

Starting point is 00:23:44 in your field? Yes, I'd say yeah. That'd be the higher side, you know, with his experience and his repertoire and being able to handle sales and logistics. Okay, but that's a big gap. So... Yeah, is it going to be on him to say, I can't take this job? Because it sounds like he has to take it based on the agreed upon contract. He doesn't have to, so he doesn't, we don't essentially, he's a valuable asset to the team,

Starting point is 00:24:14 but it's just trying to figure out the balance between being a good guy and making sure he's taken care of. That's why I feel like I need to see something. And I know him, like I said, as a friend from prior to business, I actually, long story short, I started helping build his business. We had disagreements.

Starting point is 00:24:31 I was like, hey, I need ownership in this thing. It was kind of like a young start. I'm relatively young and we went down the road of no. So I left, started my own business in the same field, now acquired his business line. Sure, no, I get that. Let me jump in here because I really appreciate your heart. You're a good dude and I love the spirit

Starting point is 00:24:51 by which you're entering into this decision. However, you've already pointed out that he was paying himself too much based on the business. And I understand you already have an existing business. But as you talked to us today, you have a pretty good idea, the market value you told us, but you also have a pretty good idea about what's a healthy number, and anything above that is you doing

Starting point is 00:25:14 charitable work, true? Then what's that number? What's the max number? Forget anything that he tells you in the days ahead as you dig into his finances or the way George told you to dig. Whether he has 500,000 in debt or nothing in debt. Doesn't matter.

Starting point is 00:25:29 It doesn't reflect what you pay him. That's right, and so what I'm getting at is what's the max number that's not charitable? Max number that's not charitable, 85 to 90, like not much higher than that. That'd be like the best of the best. Yeah, you can't justify a nickel beyond that true or false That's true. Well, then that's the number

Starting point is 00:25:50 Okay. Yeah, the other reason I guess I was justifying it was the was partially the debt But then also partially like well look we wouldn't have this business line But also in him dude, there has to be business a balance You can't just say oh well, you wouldn't have this business line if exactly if it wasn't for you know what I exactly But it's like well, you wouldn't have a business, a balance. You can't just say, oh, well you wouldn't have this business line if, if it wasn't for, you know, what I created. But it's like, well, you wouldn't have a business at all. Exactly. If we didn't step in. And now his employees are doing way better ratings,

Starting point is 00:26:12 better performance, everything's improved. You know, everything has improved from A to Z. Correct. So Joe, that's why I'm jumping in here to say, if you pay him any more than the number you just gave us, you will, and he doesn't make any changes at all, and there's a good chance that he won't make any changes, correct?

Starting point is 00:26:29 Yeah, there's a good chance. All right. That's what I'm worried about. Guess what happens? You become resentful. Yeah. And then this whole thing just becomes a negative taste in your mind, just a nasty taste.

Starting point is 00:26:40 So, the max number that you've already, that's it. Don't go beyond that. Now you can incentivize him as the business grows. As the bottom line grows, so can his income. Yeah, but that it is what it is, my friend. So don't go any more than that. And for that reason, George, I'm gonna come back to what you already said

Starting point is 00:26:59 and I wouldn't be digging in too much to this guy's stuff. Because then it's gonna feel like you're trying to pull a fast one on him based on, and even if it's high or low, I wanna treat him like I would any other person who is applying for this job. Give him that dignity. And kind of remove all of the history and context

Starting point is 00:27:18 and go, this is what I can offer you. And if he becomes resentful or entitled, that's a good sign that he's not the guy for this job. And it's gonna suck to have to go back to the drawing board And if he becomes resentful or entitled, that's a good sign that he's not the guy for this job. Yep. And it's gonna suck to have to go back to the drawing board and hire someone from the outside to run this thing. But that's the healthiest thing for the business. I'd rather do that, yeah. Exactly. I'd rather do that, yeah. I'd rather do that, yeah. I'd rather do that, yeah. I'd rather do that, yeah. I'd rather do that, yeah. I'd rather do that, yeah. I'd rather do that, yeah. I'd rather do that, yeah. I'd rather do that, yeah. I'd rather do that, yeah. I'd rather do that, yeah. I'd rather do that, yeah. I'd rather do that, yeah. I'd rather do that, yeah. I'd rather do that, yeah. I'd rather do that, yeah. I'd rather do that, yeah. I'd rather do that, yeah. I'd rather do that, yeah. I'd rather do that, yeah. I'd rather do that, yeah. I'd rather do that, yeah. I'd rather do that, yeah. I'd rather do that, yeah. I'd rather do that, yeah. I'd rather do that, yeah. I'd rather do that, yeah. I'd rather do that, yeah. I'd rather do that, yeah. I'd rather do that, yeah. I'd rather do that, yeah. I'd rather do that, yeah. I'd rather do that, yeah. I'd rather do that, yeah. I'd rather do that, yeah. I'd rather do that, yeah. I'd rather do that, yeah. I'd rather do that, yeah. I'd rather do that, yeah. I'd rather do that, yeah. I'd rather do that, yeah. I'd rather do that, yeah. I'd rather do that, yeah. I'd rather do that, yeah. I'd rather, Joe, I'm going to send you the Entrez Leadership Guide to Hiring that's going to help you make the most of this hire and everyone after that.

Starting point is 00:27:48 So hang on the line, Christian will pick up. We'll make sure to get that guide over to you, my friend. Love that. Got to be careful, George, in trying to be kind, that we don't make bad business decisions on a personal decision, and it ends up affecting the personal. You've got gotta have some boundaries based on kindness but also good common sense for your business. Great stuff there. Thanks Joe for the call. It's time for our Why ReFi Ramsey Show Question of the Day. If you're buried in defaulted private student loans,

Starting point is 00:28:26 you're not alone, you can reach out to Why ReFi to see if they can build a custom plan to help dig you out. Visit whyrefi.com slash Ramsey today, that's why, ReFi, y-r-e-f-y.com slash Ramsey. It may not be available in all states. Today's question comes from Lindsey in Maine. Last year I bought plane tickets at a cost of $3,000

Starting point is 00:28:48 for me and my three children to go on a trip. Unfortunately, it had to be canceled and the only thing we couldn't get a refund on was the airfare, which had to be used within a year. Fast forward one year and I'm still working to pay off my debt. Do I go ahead and take a loss on these tickets or try to plan a cheap vacation somewhere,

Starting point is 00:29:05 adding more debt to my budget? Ooh, what a conundrum. So the airfare didn't go to waste, but she has to use it within a year, but she's on her debt payoff journey still. So she's sort of like, hey, there's a sunk cost here. Do I take advantage of the flights because I still have 3,,000 I can use for flights

Starting point is 00:29:25 and do it cheap or I just don't like the way it was phrased at the end, adding more debt to my budget. My budgets are for cash flow planning, not planning to go into more debt. Yeah, I'm not sure why that has to be the scenario. I'm curious to know what you think here. I'm wondering if, okay, we've got the tickets. Can we go, you know, is this a thing where we pause the debt snowball and we save up for a cheap vacation?

Starting point is 00:29:51 In other words, but only bologna sandwiches, we're staying at a discount hotel, a George Campbell special, or is it, sorry, you know, cause this is the Dave, I hear Dave right now going, you're not going on vacation. Yeah. You're not doing anything. But if I knew I had $3,000 in credit, what would I personally do if I was in her shoes?

Starting point is 00:30:12 That's why I think this is interesting. I'm gonna try to give some grace here, some grace and mercy, something I rarely do. Cause I'm the get out of debt guy at all costs, do it. But I'm also Mr. Frugal and I go, there's a sunk cost here and it hurts my soul to just lose $3,000. When I can create a memory,

Starting point is 00:30:28 we already, the stupid tax has been paid. I see you in their kitchen, George, coming up with a super saver vacation to use these tickets. Don't I see you doing that? I'm leaning that way. I see you doing that. I don't know where they could go without, while limiting how much they're spending.

Starting point is 00:30:45 Now, because my thing is you gotta eat anyways, whether at home. So can you go on vacation and go to the grocery store and have some bologna sandwiches for the week? Great. Can we do all the free activities in that area? Great. The only issue is gonna be lodging.

Starting point is 00:30:58 That's right. So that brings me to, could we visit family, stay with family and make a trip around that to limit the costs. See, I knew you could do it, George. That gives me a headache, but you actually figured that out. If we go stay with family. That's my final answer, because the true cost of vacation

Starting point is 00:31:15 is gonna be the travel is one of the highest costs. And then you got transportation and food and lodging. And lodging can really eat up a big portion of the budget. So if you remove the lodging, we can eat cheap and have cheap transportation, have family member pick us up. So I don't know Lindsay's situation, but that's the only way I would feel good about doing that

Starting point is 00:31:33 while on the debt-free journey. Yeah, yeah. I like that. Well done, sir. I tried to find some middle ground here, find a compromise. I think you did. I think you went beyond compromise.

Starting point is 00:31:42 I think you got a, no, in exchange, you're staying with the family, you know? That is an exchange. You're staying with Uncle Larry and Aunt Mildred, but they got two extra bedrooms. They're in P. Nesters. They can make it work, yeah. They got some parks and stuff around their house.

Starting point is 00:31:55 And I think the kids can make it fun. Yeah. They don't need to go to Disneyland and drop another two grand while they're on the debt-free journey. So I'm not advocating for that, but I think there is a middle ground here. Yeah. Let's go to Toronto, Ontario, Ontario rather, where Bethany is waiting.

Starting point is 00:32:10 Bethany, how can we help? Hi, how are you? Good, how are you doing? I'm good. So my question is, I paid off my only debt I had, which is my car payment, and I have about $600 extra and I've been putting my money paycheck to paycheck into like different T F S a accounts and to, I have like three T F S a accounts and I got two RSP accounts running right now, but I want to put my money into something that will give me more money back when I retire or like when I go buy a house. And I don't know where to start to put my money into that.

Starting point is 00:32:55 Do you have any savings? I have like $12,000, that's it. Okay. Is that considered your emergency fund? Is that enough for three to six months of expenses? So my three to six months, I have about five grand. Okay, what's this other seven grand in investments? The TFSA and the RSP? Yeah, it's just in my RSP, those ones, yeah.

Starting point is 00:33:17 Okay, I would focus on building an emergency fund because you haven't quite built the foundation to build wealth yet. Because what's gonna happen is there could be one or two emergencies that knock this savings out and now you're back going into debt to cover it. And so I would add up what your total expenses are for one month on average, multiply that between three and six

Starting point is 00:33:40 depending on the stability of your situation, and then begin investing. And what you're saying is if I'm getting this right, depending on the stability of your situation, and then begin investing. Okay. And what you're saying is, if I'm getting this right, I'm trying to make sure our American listeners know the equivalence, the TFSA is essentially like the Roth IRA in America. Yeah, it's an after-tax payment account.

Starting point is 00:33:57 It grows tax-free, but it is an investment account, it's not a savings account. Yeah. Okay, and then the RSP is more like a traditional 401k or traditional IRA. Yeah, like, yeah, like I can't take money out of my RSP or else I get taxed. So you're looking for a non-retirement account

Starting point is 00:34:15 so that you can invest and have your money grow at a higher rate than a high yield savings account, which I don't know what the equivalent is in Canada. I imagine the rates aren't as great as the US. Do you know what the rates are for a savings account? Well, right now, I think it's, I think about 5%. Oh, that's amazing. That's great.

Starting point is 00:34:37 And you're saying you want to grow it beyond 5%. Yeah. How soon are these goals going to happen? You're talking about a house down payment? I would like to get a house down payment in within like 10 years. Oh. By the time I hit 40.

Starting point is 00:34:53 Okay, so you're 30 years old right now, you're saying there's a long time horizon for this goal. Can I invest it rather than save it? Yes. Yeah, I like that plan. I'll tell you my parameter. If the goal is longer than five years, I would say let's invest that money. If it's less than five years, I'm more inclined to put it in savings to keep it liquid.

Starting point is 00:35:13 Because we've seen, at least in the US stock market, that over a five-year period of time, generally we're going to see growth. We're going to see ups and downs, but if you just look at any five-year period, generally you're going to see it go up and to the right. And so I like this plan of you putting this money to work, but I would first get the emergency fund in place and then begin investing in a non-retirement account. So this would be like a brokerage account.

Starting point is 00:35:34 I assume it's gonna be the same in Canada, that you can open up one of these. Whereas just a taxable brokerage account, there aren't really any tax advantages and you can just stack money away there, invest it into the market. I would choose like a mutual fund or an index fund to do this instead of a single stock. I imagine you have similar things in your retirement accounts, and that's going to allow

Starting point is 00:35:55 that money to grow hopefully at a higher rate over the next 10 years. Okay. I hope that helps you. I'm proud of you. Oh, thank you. But I also like, do I like, do I continue even putting money into my RSP account? Because I heard someone say, you shouldn't, you should just keep your money into a TFSA account.

Starting point is 00:36:15 It would give you more like- Oh, I see. Interest weight onto it. Well, the TFSA, what's happening is you're using after-tax dollars. So you're not getting a tax advantage this year, but the tax advantage is that money won't be taxed again. Okay.

Starting point is 00:36:30 And so, I'm a big fan of that because in retirement, it just causes less confusion. And if you have a million dollars sitting in that TFSA, that's like a million dollars of take-home pay that the government doesn't get to touch again. And so, you're kind of betting that, hey, tax rates will likely go up over the long haul. And you're also, in the US, there's different stipulations like required minimum distributions don't apply to those tax-free accounts like they do with the traditional because the government wants a piece of the pie.

Starting point is 00:36:59 And because you already gave it to them, they don't get it again. So a lot of advantages there, I would just stick to the TFSA if I were you for investing, and that's 15% is what I'd recommend. And then anything beyond that, put into that non-retirement account for the house down payment.

Starting point is 00:37:14 Okay. That'll give you some parameters to go. And that's pretty nerdy, Ken, but that's kind of our baby step three B slash four, is I'm saving for the down payment, I wanna invest. You can invest anywhere from 0 to 15 percent in baby step 3b, but she's saying 10 years I do not want her pausing investing for 10 years I agree and I think that number could change the 10 years right I'm assuming she was on her own on that deal So I don't know that's true. Well, hopefully she can get that down payment a lot sooner than that

Starting point is 00:37:41 Who knows what homes in Canada will cost 10 years from now. That's a scary thought. Oh boy, so true. This is the Ramsey Show where America hangs out to talk about their money, their work, and their relationships. The 888-825-5225 is the phone number. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell joins me. And we're going to go to Jake who's joining us in Las Vegas. Jake, how can we help?

Starting point is 00:38:06 Hey, how's it going guys? Quick question for you here. So I'm planning on moving in with my longtime girlfriend by the end of the year probably. Buy her dinner first. Yeah, I've bought her plenty. So she's actually been in school for the past couple of years, and will come out earning, she's graduating school, she's going to come out earning a pretty good chunk, maybe close to $130 to $150. And I'm just looking for some help on how to budget that, because she's going to be the higher income earner, but she'll also have a lot more student loans. So just looking to see how you guys would recommend we balance

Starting point is 00:38:44 that household budget. Well Well that sounds like you guys are combining finances. That is the plan, yeah. Or at least in some way contribute to the household, the goals together. Can we play out a worst-case scenario because that's 99% of the calls we get on this show? Yeah, let's do it. But before we do that, George, I just want to... I was so excited. Well you're gonna get to do it. Super quick question. What's your income? We know hers or what it's do it. But before we do that, George, I just want to... I was so excited. Well, you're going to get to do it. Okay. Super quick question. What's your income?

Starting point is 00:39:07 We know hers or what it's going to be. What is yours? So, I'm making pretty good money. I'm making about 90 right now. And she's going to be in the 130 to 150 range? Probably, yep. How much debt do you have? I have none and I have a pretty good savings, investment accounts built up.

Starting point is 00:39:23 We're both really young, so I'm in a very good place. She just has the student loans as well. Nice. All right, George, dash his dreams. I'm not here, I'm just, I wanna show you all the sides. Work case scenario. Yeah, because I got worried when you were saying, hey, we're gonna move in together,

Starting point is 00:39:35 are you guys gonna buy a house? No, we're gonna rent an apartment together. Okay, and then what about the payoff? Because my concern, and we've seen this happen, is you help girlfriend pay off her loans, a breakup happens, and now you just have a sunk cost of helping this person pay off $50,000 worth of their debt with no financial relationship.

Starting point is 00:39:58 Yes, I'm not planning on paying off her loans, but I'm wondering how much she would expect, I guess that would be a conversation for her, but how much she should contribute to the household versus living off of one income, having her use her income to pay off the debt primarily. Well, it's simple. It's simple. You guys are roommates. You guys are roommates. You're not married. So with roommates, you'd go, all right, we're gonna split it 50-50. Okay.

Starting point is 00:40:26 And she pays half the housing expenses and everything else she needs to be putting toward the debt. I don't know how gung-ho she is about getting rid of the debt, so she may be less excited about this plan of living like she's broke after finishing her program and making this amazing income and then still living like,

Starting point is 00:40:44 man, I'm still eating ramen over here. How intense is she about getting out of debt? She is 1k a month at ASAP. Okay and do you know the total amount? It's a couple hundred thousand. Whoo! Hello. What was her program? What degree is this? It's a medical degree. Okay is this like a nurse practitioner type thing or is it on the administrative side? Physician assistant, very similar. Okay, PA, all right. So what's her long-term income possibility? So probably at most, probably getting up to around 200,000.

Starting point is 00:41:15 Yeah, how long you guys been dating? We've been dating about three years. And you've never lived together? Well, she's been in school for the majority of that time, and we've actually been doing long distance for about two years of it. But anytime she comes home, we are those staying together. So we sort of have a history of living together for a few months at a time and goes really well. Of course, we have those long-term plans together. So we are. How old are you Jake? Very young, 20, 25, 26 years old.

Starting point is 00:41:46 Okay. Are you thinking about marrying this girl? Yeah, that's on the agenda for both of us. Oh, where is it on the agenda? Give me a date. Five years down the road engagement probably. Why five years? Hold on, another five years?

Starting point is 00:42:00 Yeah. Probably something like that. Why? At least, maybe at least three at a minimum. What's up with the minimum? I call in for financial advice guys. I'm just curious. America is also wondering. Jake with the Heisman, he stiff-armed us. Yeah, hey look, you're right, you did call in for financial advice, but guess what's involved in finances? True, good point. Yeah, I mean we're just sort of feeling it out.

Starting point is 00:42:25 We're not in any rush right now. I want to enjoy time together while we're young. And neither, we know the vision we have, so we're not in a rush to get married. We just want to enjoy our time together. Okay, I've done all I can do, Jake. Jake gave us the boundary. It's not a, to me, Jake, this is not,

Starting point is 00:42:44 it's not like a moral thing. I'm not here to make judgment calls about your is not, it's not like a moral thing. I'm not here to make judgment calls about your life. I'm just telling you that financially, you're gonna be so much better off by combining your financial lives, working toward a goal together, working toward a vision together.

Starting point is 00:42:55 And right now it feels like we're just kind of looking to play house and have a good time. And you can do all of that and be married. So if you're committing to live with someone, committing to help someone with their debt payoff journey, whether it's, you know, support or financial, I would just go, hey, we're going to pay this thing off a whole lot faster if we work together. We're going to build wealth a whole lot faster if we work together. And if you know she's the one, I don't know the reason for a five-year delay. Hey, George, back off. He didn't call in for relationship advice. One man's take.

Starting point is 00:43:28 No, more than fine. I didn't mean to get a, yes. I'm just having fun with you. It's Friday, I like to have a good time. Here's the deal. I hope she's on the same page as you because with the plan that you've given us, there's a good possibility,

Starting point is 00:43:48 she starts making really good money as a PA, and you guys aren't combined finances, so you don't get a say, and she starts to get a credit card here, or a car payment there. That's why I'm saying, that's why we like the marriage play on this. If we know it's a foregone conclusion,

Starting point is 00:44:03 it just makes a whole lot more sense. And if not, you're gonna have to have some real boundaries financially in order that it doesn't hurt you relationally. Do you understand what I'm saying? Yeah, that makes sense. So I would, I would, because if I'm girlfriend, I'm going, hold on, I got a, I got hundreds of thousands student loans. You want me to pay half of, you can cover all the bills just fine on your own. I want to focus on my debt payoff. Can you take on the brunt of the bills? Boom red flag resentment. Yeah, that's kind of how I see this playing out because that's how it happens in real life And yeah, she makes more money than you pal or she's going to should she be paying more of the bills based on income

Starting point is 00:44:42 I'm getting that is because we are both on the same page financially. I'm a very financially conscious person. She knows my attention and dedication to just building a future for myself and ourselves there. So she wants this paid off. She wants to contribute towards the household. So I guess a big question of what I'm asking is, with this future we're both envisioning for ourselves together, marriage aside, we'll table that for the time being, but how much do you think? Is it at this point 50-50 split? Yeah. Or would those plans to marry down the road, should it be maybe I do 60, she does 40,

Starting point is 00:45:21 and we'll let her tackle more of that debt? No. That's going to be the plan. I do 60, she does 40, and we'll let her tackle more of that debt. No! That's going to be the plan. Oh, that's so goofy. Do you hear how goofy that sounds? It's 50-50. That's what I said seven or eight minutes ago. I haven't changed my mind.

Starting point is 00:45:33 Have you changed your mind? No. Although I am, I'm just picturing you saying, hey, you make 40% more than me. I think you should pay 40% more of the bills too. I'd like a video of that. You could send it to me so I have something to watch when I get bored during the day, that's gonna be fun. That could go viral Jake, if you film that scenario. Yeah. Alright, fair enough, well thank you guys for the help. Best of luck. Yeah. He's in Vegas, just go down to one of those little Elvis...

Starting point is 00:45:56 Seriously! You know, there's a wedding chapel on every corner, it's kind of like a church in the south, you know, there's wedding chapels everywhere. God bless. Get him a ring man. Yeah we're gonna put that off. We're gonna talk about our future together he said marriage aside we're gonna put that one we're gonna talk about our future. Just the one thing that actually legally means we're together we'll put that aside. God bless Jake. Hey guys I didn't call for relationship advice. Back off. blessed to have a good i'd call it called for a relationship let's go to zackary in los angeles california's accurate how can we help

Starting point is 00:46:40 and you get so much for taking my call uh... the the issue that i'm having, it's actually more of a moral dilemma, and I'm looking for some guidance from you guys. Hello. We lost you. Zachary? We do not have a moral dilemma. We have a technology dilemma.

Starting point is 00:47:00 I was so excited. I was too. I love those. Let's see if we can get them back. Maybe the guys can go on the line with him. See if his lines can get out. The pipes are clogged apparently on The phone. Is that right? I think I don't know. I appreciate that. He was sounding good until he wasn't. I appreciate that very much All right. Well, while we're trying to get him, this is a good time to talk about. You and I were talking about during the break You're getting ready to

Starting point is 00:47:23 Getting ready to move. got a new home. We just love to move. I realize I like pain and suffering, and so every few years, why not? Every thousand days, just up and move. Yeah, well, a lot of people are thinking about buying or selling. George just started his process of selling,

Starting point is 00:47:37 and we always recommend, don't do that on your own. It's such a massive, massive financial decision. We wanna make sure that you understand what's going on in the market and the latest trends. Make sure that you understand them. Median home prices, for example, George, went up slightly last month to about $430,000. More homes are on the market, nearly $1 million. That's the highest since 2019, so there's no longer an inventory issue. The average 15 year fixed rate rose to 5.9% last month. So the point is, is if you're financially ready,

Starting point is 00:48:12 don't worry about what's going on in the market. We wanna make sure that you know what's going on in the housing market trends and get some free tools to help you buy or sell. And we've created a wonderful website for you, ramsysolutions.com slash market, ramsysolutions.com slash market, ramsysolutions.com slash market. All right, let's see.

Starting point is 00:48:30 We got it back. Look at that, you see what I did there? I helped people out with some good real estate information and in the interim we got Zachary back on the line. Zachary with the moral dilemma, are you there? Hey, yeah, can you guys hear me? Well, that's so good. All right, lay it out.

Starting point is 00:48:45 George and I have our fake robes on, our judges robes and powdered wigs. What's going on? I appreciate it. So about a year and a half ago, I got quote unquote recruited into the insurance industry, as I'm sure you can guess, the whole life insurance industry.

Starting point is 00:49:01 Uh-oh. And I graduated from college in 2023 and just graduated from grad school about a couple of weeks ago. My full time college basketball player, as well as working part time, got married in August. And so my my moral dilemma is a little bit unique because this industry has done a lot for me financially. But the more that I've listened to you guys and the more that I've just grown to learn the financial industry as a whole, the more I am struggling to sell a product that I don't necessarily believe in.

Starting point is 00:49:38 Did you ever believe in it? What caused the turn? I got a cold DM on Instagram about a guy that played sports in college and does sales and I was like oh that that's it for my situation and my managers allowed me to do it part-time and I really got to kill it when I was working full-time and I I didn't have a great understanding of the product at all I just knew it was sales and it became a lucrative and so it was one of those things that was difficult to step away from

Starting point is 00:50:08 and especially getting married, I'm not sure. But what caused you to go, I have a different understanding of this product now. Why do you think it is a bad product? I just, I mean listening to you guys, if I'm being completely honest, I understand. If you, I was pretty naive, like when I started I just knew it was sales.

Starting point is 00:50:25 I knew it was insurance. You're getting fooled by all these people that it's helping people. Um, you know, it's, it's, it's a product, it's cash value, it's building, it's an investment. So you're learning from people that don't know, and then you learn a different side and you do research. And so that's where it was really kind of more difficult for me to stow. Um, and the kicker is I'm actually leaving in three months to go to Europe with my wife to go play

Starting point is 00:50:49 professional basketball nice so congrats thank you so you can't do this anymore then it feels like this is your out I mean why not just leave and not do whole life anymore and that's that's really like the the quote-unquote dilemma is like is it something that I should, because the earnings potential through the summer is so high and it's just so like conflicted with like do I provide for my wife and I versus what do we do? Yeah. So Zachary, let me put the question to you, okay?

Starting point is 00:51:16 Because you actually said this at the beginning of the call and I paraphrase here if I can remember how you said it, but said is it is it a moral dilemma or I have a moral dilemma because I'm selling a product that I do not believe in so you tell me is that immoral yes or no it sounds pretty immoral it's not so much that it's immoral it's not like you're selling it a legal product you're not selling drugs okay yeah I don't I don much that it's immoral. It's not like you're selling an illegal product. You're not selling drugs, okay? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 00:51:48 So I don't think it's immoral. That's why I'm putting it to you that way. But let me put it this way. Do you think that you can thrive, and I mean not just financially, thrive mentally and emotionally when you are selling a product that you don't think is a good product?

Starting point is 00:52:06 Yes or no? It's becoming more difficult too. And I, like I said, I want to preface it by saying I'm super blessed with an incredible wife and incredible faith and incredible family. So it's like I am so blessed in my life and I never take that for granted financially, relationally. And so I just like the work, the work that I've been going, especially the last month since I've been done with school and basketball and trying to get

Starting point is 00:52:30 back into it full time has been much more difficult this year than it was last year. Right. And why is it difficult? Because of that little voice in your head that you'll find. It's eating away at your soul. So the answer to the question is not for George and I to answer. The answer is for you to answer. What's the answer to the question is not for George and I to answer. The answer is for you to answer. What's the answer? Say it. Yeah, just to be done.

Starting point is 00:52:50 Be done. Be done. Here's what you're good at, Zachary. You're not good at selling whole life. You're good at serving people. And so you can use that skill to go sell something else that you do believe in. That might be insurance. There's a lot of types of insurance that we do recommend

Starting point is 00:53:05 that you can feel good about, and there's types that we don't. And so I would go find something that you feel good about selling in the financial space in insurance, or maybe there's something else out there for you entirely, and this was just a fun thing you did for a little while to make ends meet. When do you leave overseas to play ball?

Starting point is 00:53:22 Yeah, most likely the middle to end of August. And that's also kind of the other part of the question is like, what's, what does it, like what, I don't know if there's advice or what does it look like? Cause making it, it doesn't really feel like to me it makes a lot of sense to make a change, a career change. I agree. I agree.

Starting point is 00:53:39 And so the next question is financial for me. Do you start getting paid already on the contract for the overseas team or is that not? No, I won't get paid until probably September. And so that's the thing is. How much money do you need to stay afloat between now and getting paid in September? I mean, need is I, I don't need, I guess, quote unquote need any money in terms of like we have, we're, we're pretty, we've set up pretty well. I mean we have about, the thing for me is the just, yeah, I don't, we don't need anything. You're saying is your wife working? You have income and savings that can support you guys if you quit insurance cold turkey today? Yeah, we do.

Starting point is 00:54:16 Yeah, they go do some side projects. Just if you're just looking to bring in some cash, just go do something. You're in this really interesting season, man. What are you going to make as a professional basketball player? Not a lot in the first year. It's usually two or three grand a month, but there's no expenses either. And so it's no house, a car, food. I would walk away then from this whole life stuff that you don't feel good about and enjoy these next few months. That's all you got. It's going to be over like that. If you want some extra spending cash, go do something that's just super part-time and easy, you know? For sure.

Starting point is 00:54:52 Yeah. Hey, question, and you may not feel comfortable telling me that's okay. Where did you play ball? Yeah, I played a point while I'm in Nazarene and San Diego, as well as Seattle Pacific and Seattle. Good for you, man. Well, man, that's exciting. You're gonna have a season of life, a young married couple over in Europe playing basketball. That's not a bad gig, you know? And hopefully you stay healthy and can start cashing in on a big contract or so.

Starting point is 00:55:15 And go for it, man. But do what's right. That's the thing. And you're determining what's right. I don't get to tell you what's right. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah, so good man, appreciate the call. Yeah, I love the honesty there.

Starting point is 00:55:29 That takes a lot of self-awareness and soul searching to go, man, I'm making great money and it's eating away at my soul. You got it, George. I love the way you said it because the bottom line is if you're selling something that you don't believe in, it will eat away at you. There's just no question about it.

Starting point is 00:55:45 And it's not worth the exchange. It's just... Selling your soul at that point. That's right. Not just whole life. Yeah. Really good stuff. All right, George, I'll explain to you what basketball is and, you know...

Starting point is 00:55:56 Alley-oop. That's a move. Okay. You got that one. Very nice. All right. Keep it up, buddy. Let's go to Laura in Columbia, Missouri. Laura, how can we help today?

Starting point is 00:56:16 Hi. My question is if you guys would think that it would be feasible for me to be a stay at home mom. So I've kind of ran the numbers and I made a budget for my husband and it's kind of looked everything over and it's taken him a while to finally like agree to it and be comfortable with it. But my thought was if I could get the Ramsey Network to quote unquote approve it,

Starting point is 00:56:42 then maybe we could make it happen. Oh wow. Wow, that feels like. That's a lot of pressure Ken. So like he's already sort of okay with it, but you need our final stamp of approval and you're hoping that that gets him on board? Yes.

Starting point is 00:56:57 Oh boy. Oh boy. You know what? I got no problem getting in the middle of this one. What do you think George? Yeah, all right. So you got to give us the details. So let's cut right to the most important part of it here.

Starting point is 00:57:09 When you've done the budget, because we don't have time to go line by line. So when you do the budget, what does that show us? And we're looking for what surplus do you have after you've paid all the bills? And then tell us what baby step you guys are on again kind of give us a quick picture there. Yeah it's tight but it's very very durable so the reason why I'm still

Starting point is 00:57:33 employed is so that I can get my pension so I'm almost five years vested with this bait and then after that that's whenever we're looking for me to be able to stay home so we have a two-year-old and an eight-month-old, both 20 months apart. And so line by line, he makes about $1,200 a week. And so it would be tight, but we could do it. How much tight? Like what would be left over? Probably two to three hundred dollars. Okay, and then, and I can't remember if you told me, I apologize. What baby step are you on? Okay, and then, and I can't remember if you told me, I apologize, what baby step are you on? So everything's paid off besides the house.

Starting point is 00:58:08 Oh, okay. We just have 50,000 left on the house. Great, and do you have a fully funded emergency fund? We do, we have about 20,000 in savings. Way to go, that's fantastic. Congrats. And when you say you have two to 300 bucks extra, is that after all expenses are paid,

Starting point is 00:58:23 healthcare, are you investing 15% of his income at that point and there's still 300 bucks left over? Yes. Okay, so your only other financial goals would be saving for college and paying off the house and the baby steps? Yep, yep, so we cash bought a vehicle in March. We traded my old Equinox and for a minivan,

Starting point is 00:58:43 so I'm a minivan mom And so we were able to pay cash for that which is pretty awesome feeling and then everything else is paid for so we have No debt no nothing And then he has side job Saturdays and I have side job Saturdays And oh, I'm a part-time photographer and so he's a blue collar man So he goes and welds and what does he make? Okay, this is great. I have a couple more questions and I'll be ready to rule. I think George is probably already ready over there. I see him. No, I'm hesitant. You're hesitant. Okay, I got a couple questions. It may help Judge George. Okay. All right. How much does he make right now just in his trade job, his main job? Probably right around $70,000 I think. And what were you- It's $100 a week after taxes.

Starting point is 00:59:27 Okay, great, and what were you making? Let's assume you're already gone. So what has been your salary? $50,000 a year. $50,000, so we're taking a $50,000 hit. My question is, with you doing the, what'd you call them, Saturdays? What'd you call them?

Starting point is 00:59:43 Side job Saturdays. Side job Saturdays, Side job Saturdays. I love that. Are the side jobs that both of you are going to continue to do, are they included in the budget number that you gave us? I, not his, mine was, I do photography and so I charge $200 a session and I just budget it to be two sessions a month. That's very minimum for me. Got you. for me. What about his side hustle stuff? What will that generate? It could be a thousand a month easily. And that's not included in the numbers you gave us? No. So in all reality it's

Starting point is 01:00:17 reasonable to assume that from your budget alone just going down to one income you're gonna have let's call it $300 of surplus a month after everything's taken care of, and then we add his 1,000, so we're gonna be in the black, let's say $1,300 a month. Okay. That to me, I'm okay with it, I'm fully okay now, because what I was gonna suggest is

Starting point is 01:00:43 how could he make an additional $50,000 a year professionally and the fact that he's blue collar, but he's kind of in the trades. I think there's very reasonable expectation that he can do that. And if he were to get close to replacing your 50 in the first 12 months, to me that's a no-brainer, but I'll see what Judge George thinks. He's over here quietly tapping his pen. Tap, tap, tap. No, I like this plan, Laura. I'm not worried. I just wanna make sure that you guys have enough margin

Starting point is 01:01:12 to create sinking funds to save for vacation, create a sinking fund to save up to upgrade the cars eventually, to have enough to throw a little bit at college savings, to have more on top of that to throw at the mortgage, to be able to give and spend the way you guys want and not just be right up to it every month. Because when you said it's tight,

Starting point is 01:01:29 I feel like that brings its own stress. But I also know that staying at home is such a big decision and it's such a family values decision that it sort of trumps the just math numbers. And that's where I go, if you guys both agree this is the right move, do it and then figure out a plan to achieve those further goals.

Starting point is 01:01:49 And that might mean he busts his butt and gets some raises. It might mean that you have to continue the side hustle for the next three years until we get to a better place. But if you guys are willing to make those sacrifices necessary, you have a green light for me. Yeah. And you know you have a green light for me already. And I would also add to it,

Starting point is 01:02:06 you will not regret this decision to come home. If you change your mind, you can always go back to work, but you'll never get this time back with those little ones. And I'm, listen, I'm speaking as a guy who I'm watching my kids grow so fast, it's freaking me out. You know, I got a kid and just finished his freshman year in college. And I thought I was changing his diaper yesterday.

Starting point is 01:02:25 It goes fast. And so I just think. Yeah, that's one of the biggest things. And I'm gonna also say this, and by the way, my mom was a working mom and my wife has worked during many years of our kids' lives. So I don't want what I'm about to say to get misinterpreted because that happens in today's age.

Starting point is 01:02:41 So I'm gonna say this as clearly as I can. I am pro women who want to work for financial reasons or professional reasons. Love it. But I also think that the greatest job in the world is a stay at home mom. And I applaud you. Give it a shot.

Starting point is 01:02:58 So is your husband listening in right now or is this we're going to tell him this later? I was going to tell him later. All right. Fun. When is this happening, you tell him this later? I was gonna tell him later. All right. Fun. When is this happening you said? Is it a little ways out? So I would be vested for retirement at the end of July

Starting point is 01:03:12 and so then probably August. Okay, just a few months away. Yeah. Congratulations. We wanted to stay that vested so I could get the pension when I retire with the state but then also I put in extra retirement. So I put in about 15% of my income once I started here, and so I have roughly about 30,000 in retirement

Starting point is 01:03:31 just with the state. Awesome. Nice. Way to go. I think that's a very wise move, and I'll tell you, Laura, my wife decided to stay at home after a nine-year career at Ramsey. She was thriving, crushing it, and it was the right decision for her as hard as it was. And so I think like Ken said, you're not going to regret this.

Starting point is 01:03:49 And it is definitely a, it's a big move for your family. It is. Yeah. It is. And I love what I do. So I work in recruitment for a college and I love what I do to recruit these students for technical education. It's just my babies are calling me home.

Starting point is 01:04:06 Come on, mama. I love it. I think that's fantastic. George, really quick, because we got about a minute and a half with her. I'd love for you to give her some advice on what to do with that pension and maximize that. Oh, absolutely.

Starting point is 01:04:16 So you said you're fully vested. When will you have access to it? When I retire. Okay, so we're talking 60? Yeah. What will it end up being per month? When I retire. Okay, so we're talking 60? Yeah. What will it end up being per month? Right around 15 to 1900, I think.

Starting point is 01:04:31 Great, so that will kind of bolster your retirement. And as long as he's investing at 15%, you guys are still young, right? Yeah, so he just turned 31 this week and I'm 29. And we have him putting 500 a month into a raw salary already. Okay, but you're not quite at 15% yet? I am with my current salary.

Starting point is 01:04:53 With him, he's at, we're at $500 a month for him putting into a raw salary. So you'll need to increase that to 15% because it's 15% of household income, which then might change your budget. So I'd go back to that budget and see what it would be like to take 15% out of each paycheck before it hits versus his current $500. I still think you're going to make it happen.

Starting point is 01:05:13 And I think the power of you guys making this move will change the direction of your family in the best way. And the money will just show up because you guys are willing to work for what's important to you. Yeah, Laura, so, so excited for you and you're going to be great at home. It's going to be great. Tell the husband it's going to all be okay. It's natural for him to be worried about losing an income, but it'll replace itself. Glad we got to make that decision.

Starting point is 01:05:36 I think that was the right thing. Yeah. For two random guys to do. Two random guys, yeah, to rule on it. All right, folks, thanks so much for being a part of our audience. We do this for you and we need your help. You know, the show is continuing to grow new audiences. And so wherever you're partaking of the show, if it's on YouTube, we'd love for you to subscribe,

Starting point is 01:06:06 like and share. And if you're listening to a podcast, give us a follow and a share as well. Subscribe, because that helps us grow. You know how the algorithms work. I don't, but that's what they tell me. So we would appreciate that. We don't want to hurt Ken's head.

Starting point is 01:06:21 We do not. It's easy to do, George. Say things like algorithm, and I just start to get verkle head. We do not. It's easy to do, George. Say things like algorithm, and I just start to get verklept. Keep Ken out of it. I start crying, it scares me. Aaron is up in Columbus, Ohio. Aaron, how can we help?

Starting point is 01:06:34 Hi Ken, hi George. Thank you so much for taking my call. You bet. Longtime listener and follower of Baby Steps. Thank you. Wife and I made it Baby Step 7 about five years ago. Hey-o, that's no big, that's no small thing there. That's huge. Yeah. Thank you. Um, but got a problem. I wanted to run something by you,

Starting point is 01:06:53 get some advice and see what you think. All right. So one of the things we're doing well that got us there is investing in our company 401k plans. And I work for a small business, very small family owned company at the LC and have been in there for one day about 14 years have amassed about 315,000 at its height in March of this year. We know what happened in the market in April. So it went down about 250. And

Starting point is 01:07:24 around that time, the company wants to switch providers. So we get a blackout notice, everything seems kosher. However, during that switch, I found out that we were fully divested out of the market for seven days, May 7th to May 14th. And if you've been watching the market, that was a rally period. So losses were realized. I lost about 237 shares valued at $18,000 out of that retirement account. And I've got about 30 more years projected to my retirement date.

Starting point is 01:08:03 So the question I guess is, have you ever heard of that? I guess it's standard I'm told for an old 401k provider to liquidate to cash and then spend some days to move out of the market and then rebuy with the new company. Man, that really stinks. And you know, the changes like this happen all the time, but the crazy fluctuations in the market is just really bad timing to miss out

Starting point is 01:08:32 as the market makes a comeback and you're sitting on the sidelines unable to do anything about it. Sure. And so I don't know that there's anything you can do to get that money back. I mean, essentially it was out of your control and you're gonna just have to build that back up.

Starting point is 01:08:48 But you can ask HR for a detailed transfer report, you know, and work with the record keeper to go, hey, what exactly happened? I wanna make sure that my investments are still invested where they were. It's in the same funds. I have the same amount of shares. But you're telling me that essentially

Starting point is 01:09:03 they had to cash out this transfer temporarily for that week, and when they cashed it back in to buy the same amount of shares, you bought less shares because of the price or what? Exactly. The price went up about 6%. So it's not a loss in a traditional sense, it's more of a missed gain. Correct. And that, unfortunately, is just part of the risk

Starting point is 01:09:27 of any kind of 401k provider transition. And so you can talk to your employer, I doubt they're gonna do anything, especially as a mom and pop kind of small company. They're not a giant corporation where they're gonna go, we're gonna cover any missed gains that happen because that's on us for changing providers. You guys had nothing to do with that decision,

Starting point is 01:09:42 but I don't want you to spend too much time reeling over this, because you guys are doing so well that it's such a small part of your world at this point. Sure. Yeah, we had, I appreciate that. We did talk to the employer. In fact, this happened in 2017 as well,

Starting point is 01:10:02 but it was only 15 shares and about $800. Much smaller scale. So when this came about, yeah, I warned the employer and asked the new advisor, hey, I've got scars from last time and mistakes are higher. Can this be avoided? And it wasn't avoided. And when I followed up, the response was,

Starting point is 01:10:23 sorry, that can happen. That's unfortunately what I thought the answer would be. I doubt they're gonna be like, well, let's just write you a check for $18,000, Aaron, for your missed gains. We're so sorry. I wish it worked like that, but it's just one of those snafus

Starting point is 01:10:37 and the timing could not have been worse. But it's a good reminder to not pull your money out of the market because the stats are pretty wild, Ken. If you missed the best 10 days of the market because you were spooked, you thought, hey, it's gonna go crashing. Well, you're gonna really miss out on gains

Starting point is 01:10:52 on the other side when the comeback does inevitably happen. But man, it's pretty rare that this kind of stuff happens. It's not every day that employers are just switching 401k providers, especially going a whole week with that money, not sitting in any investment account. But it's just part of the reality of an employer retirement plan.

Starting point is 01:11:10 You don't have all the control. That's right. Yeah, it stinks, but you gotta move on. So, you know, you're okay. This is not a devastating play for you. And it does stink though. So, sorry about that. Yeah, I will grieve with you on that one.

Starting point is 01:11:21 Yeah, absolutely. That one stings. Ruby is up next in Washington, DC. Yeah, absolutely. That one that one stings ruby is up next in washington dc ruby. How can we help? Hi, I was wondering if I should sell my home, okay, tell us more why are you wondering about selling your home? So I am over the 25 percent. I'm currently at 42 percent. I have a debt of 34,919. Total monthly income is $6,360. Mortgage is $2,660.

Starting point is 01:11:59 Including utilities, it would be $2,990. Okay, we can remove utilities from that. I'll clarify the parameter. It might help your numbers. I'm not sure yet. So the 25% parameter is again, just a parameter. So if it's 27%, it's not like, go sell your house today. The goal is just to have enough money leftover

Starting point is 01:12:18 to fund your other goals. Like investing 15% of your household income, putting away some money for college, paying off the home early, going on vacation, upgrading the cars, yada yada. So the after tax 25%, that is before any other deductions like your healthcare premiums, your 401k contributions.

Starting point is 01:12:36 So are you factoring that in right now? Only the health insurance, which is about 220220 a month. Okay, so if you subtract the $220 from that, that will help your 25%. And are you doing any investing right now or do you have this debt to pay off? No, no investing, I have the debt to pay off.

Starting point is 01:12:56 Okay, and what kind of debt was that? Did I miss it? This is consumer debt. Okay, is that combined or is that one debt? No, that's all combined. That was the 34,000 number you gave us? Yes. Okay.

Starting point is 01:13:13 All right, so if we take out the health insurance, you're likely maybe slightly under 40, still not a great position. So what I would tell you is this, selling your home is a very expensive transaction. And so I would not encourage you to do that unless there was no hope in sight that you were gonna get your income up

Starting point is 01:13:28 and your expenses down. So what are you doing for work? Is this a sole income for the household? Is it just you? No, this is me and my husband. Okay. And what does the upward mobility look like in your careers? Because if we get your income up,

Starting point is 01:13:43 that changes these numbers drastically. Yeah, I would say in about, just this year I should be getting about a 7% raise. Okay. My husband, on the other hand, is probably gonna lose his work permit soon, but we have high hopes that we'll be able to get it, back again in about two years

Starting point is 01:14:05 just because of timing with USCIS and all of that stuff. So what does that mean? Is he gonna go without income for two years? It's possible. Then you definitely can't keep this house. What happens if he loses his income today and it's just on you? That mortgage becomes 70% of your take-home pay, right? Yeah, the only thing I can do because he brings in $2,400 a month is I

Starting point is 01:14:31 can rent out rooms that I have. I don't have any kids yet. That doesn't feel sustainable. No, this isn't good. And I wouldn't trust, listen, I don't care who's in the White House. I don't trust the government to move on time about anything. So the two years could stretch into who knows what, throw you guys into a real tough situation. I absolutely would sell the house and rent cheap. You guys are in flux because of his work permit. Correct. I would really think about this long and hard

Starting point is 01:15:06 and if it's a surefire thing, he's gonna lose his income, there's just no way we can keep living like this. So even if your rent is the same, there's still a lot less risk and less expenses that go along with being a renter versus a homeowner. So you might need to delay that dream a little while longer until we get some

Starting point is 01:15:22 stable income. Like 10 grand a month to afford a $2,500 payment. That's the math. This is The Ramsey Show, where America hangs out to have a conversation about their money, their work, and their relationships. Alongside George Campbell, I'm Ken Coleman. Excited to have you with us.

Starting point is 01:15:43 The phone number to get in on the conversation is 888-825-5225. We started off with Kiefer in Seattle, Washington. Kiefer, how can we help? Hi, George. Hi, Tim. I just wanted to say that I've been a long time viewer of the show. And there was a time when I was in a good amount of debt and the show definitely helps me out Well, I would like to help you out real quick because you're a longtime viewer But you called me Tim and Tim doesn't exist. I'm Ken is what I go by Ken Ken He gets a lot and I know people get nervous. I call him Tim Coleman. I come across like a Tim I think so I get it What's going on? Yeah

Starting point is 01:16:24 So I've got a significant other girlfriend of about six months who's in a bit of a precarious financial situation. She's got about 70,000 of student debt. She's not making any of the payments so it is racking up interest and maybe penalty fees as well. Why is she not paying? She's not paying. She said she doesn't have the money to pay at the moment. In her plan, and she's accepted into medical school, and she's gonna begin medical school this summer. And her plan is once she's finished medical school,

Starting point is 01:17:02 there'll be an additional 20,000 so her debt and then she'll begin paying once she is making the big bucks. It's kind of her big plan. Makes me a little nervous, you know, to see, you know, if we get more and more serious. I guess how would you suggest I... what advice would you give her and how do you think I should have that conversation or should I have it at all? Mm, well you've been dating six months and so we can caveat this is you're not a married couple. So you don't have as much influence in her life

Starting point is 01:17:36 as someone who's married to her or someone who's been with her for a long time. But I think you can start to try to understand where she's coming from. So I would try to ask with empathy, hey, can you help me understand your student loan plan here? Cause I'm worried about you. You know, what is your goal with the school loans?

Starting point is 01:17:51 How do you feel about debt long-term? And instead of, you know, lecturing her on, well, hey, there's a show who says you shouldn't take on debt. And I think they're right. I would lead with, hey, I'm worried because I care about your future and ours. If we stay together long-term.

Starting point is 01:18:05 These student loans are serious. This is a real crisis. I've seen how they affect people's lives and I wanna make sure that we have a plan to get out of this and minimize the damage. Have you approached her like that? Yeah, I mean, I have said that I'm concerned. I guess I just don't.

Starting point is 01:18:24 It's kind of tough to go to someone and say, hey, I'm concerned and I guess I just don't. It's kind of tough to go to someone and say, hey, I'm concerned and then not have a solution. I guess I'm kind of at the point where I feel her solution isn't the worst thing in the world, even though, you know, the idea of $200,000 of additional student debt is kind of terrifying. So she's not working right now? She's working, but she's making very little income from what I understand. She's doing medical research,

Starting point is 01:18:49 which is kind of like a temp job before you go to medical school. Okay, so she is honestly telling you, I don't have the money to pay off these student loans right now. Yeah, I mean, I have a feeling she's got some amount to pay a little bit of that interest payment, but at the end of the day,

Starting point is 01:19:05 I believe what she's saying when she really isn't able to make a serious dent. And she's not stressed out about it, it sounds like. You're more stressed than she is. From what she said, she is stressed out about it, but she's kind of come to peace in her words. I think that's called denial. That's probably a good way to say it. Out of that, you know. I think that's called denial. Yeah, that's probably a good-

Starting point is 01:19:27 Out of sight, out of mind. Yeah. Have you encouraged her like, hey, could we sit down and work on a budget together? Would you allow me to do that and kind of look into the numbers and see if I could help in any way? And you can go with, hey, I'm kind of a nerd. I enjoy kind of digging into this stuff.

Starting point is 01:19:40 Would you let me help you in creating a budget and see what we can find? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's not a bad idea. All I know is that the wrong way to do it is to come down as if you know everything and she knows nothing and you're, you know, admonishing her for her decisions. That's going to backfire and cause her to shut down and close up.

Starting point is 01:20:03 And so what I'm trying to do is always lead with something that causes her to open up, to be curious, to accept a little help from a nerdy friend, a nerdy boyfriend. I think that's your best bet to play this out at a six-month relationship standpoint. Yeah. Yeah. What are your thoughts, Ken? Yeah, I agree. Have you actually talked much about money at all?

Starting point is 01:20:24 I feel it's a bit of a touchy subject. I've, I've worked in technology in the Seattle area. So we're at the moment, you know, on kind of opposite ends of the financial spectrum, but we, we've brought this up a little bit and usually it's a short conversation because I can tell it's just, yeah. Tell me how it goes cause I'm going somewhere with this. Like tell me something that goes, because I'm going somewhere with this.

Starting point is 01:20:45 Tell me something that you would say, and tell me how she reacts and kind of changes the subject, or give me a quick picture. Yeah, I guess most recently, I just kind of bluntly asked her how much that she had at the moment, and what she was planning on taking on, and what interest rates

Starting point is 01:21:03 for this next four years of schooling. We had that bit of a brief conversation and then as you guys did say, I did say, well, you know, maybe we can make some kind of budget or some kind of plan before she goes to school and she didn't seem interested in that, but I can feel that it's going to be a painful exercise to go through and actually look at the numbers. Okay, that helps me. So, I agree with George. I think you've got to go real, real, real soft touch on this stuff at six months in. And what I would recommend is instead of you asking her about her finances, that automatically puts somebody on the defensive, okay? She doesn't

Starting point is 01:21:44 understand what you understand. She just doesn't. She doesn't look at money the way you look at it. She doesn't have the financial education. She doesn't have the values probably that you have. So you can't, you can't, how shall I say this? You know, when the student is ready, the teacher appears is an old phrase.

Starting point is 01:22:05 I'm trying to pull some colloquialism for you to get this idea that, you know, you asking a couple questions isn't going to get her to go, hey, I totally want to do the Ramsey plan thanks to that question. Woohoo! And let's sit down tonight and do it. It's not going to happen that way. So what I would do is you're only six months into this relationship. Have you guys even dropped the L word on each other

Starting point is 01:22:25 Like how serious are we? We have we're actually fairly serious. Okay, so here's what I would do. Yeah. Yeah, we're pretty start talking about your finances and I've got three teenagers. So the new phrase I honestly drives me bananas George, but it's like low-key Always using the phrase low-key in front of something like, I'm low key doing this or I'm low key doing that. Makes no sense to me at all. It drives me bananas. I low key hate it.

Starting point is 01:22:53 Is that what it is? That was actually a great use of low key. Is that right? Okay. But let me tell you why I'm bringing this up. I think you gotta be low key and just going, hey, so you know what? We are getting more serious and I'm just gonna share some of my thoughts on money,

Starting point is 01:23:07 and here's some stuff I've been doing, and begin to just share. You know, I learned about this from this show I listened to called The Ramsey Show, low key, right? And they talk about saving 15% after getting out of debt, and just start to drop in some ideas, George, so that she gets an idea. You're not asking her if she's willing to do it, if she's done it, you just go, you know, And just start to drop in some ideas, George, so that she gets an idea.

Starting point is 01:23:25 You're not asking her if she's willing to do it, if she's done it. You just go, you know, you guys are learning each other and I guess you're going to talk about kids and what do you think about kids one day? Maybe what do you think about faith and what do you think about politics? I would treat money the same way, George, and just begin to have some conversations. Don't put her on the spot. Don't ask her if she agrees with it. Just talk about real tactical, practical things that you're doing with money and see

Starting point is 01:23:47 how she responds to that. I would low key my way into it and then when she begins to ask questions, then you low key answer it. I like that plan. That's a good one. Oh boy. You're so low key about this, Ken. I like it. That whole rant was low key.. Low-key goaded, Ken Coleman. I don't like it. I don't like low-key me. Help. All right, let's go to Vanessa, who's joining us now in Sacramento, California.

Starting point is 01:24:19 Vanessa, how can we help today? Hi. First, I'd like to say it's a pleasure to meet you. And I'm calling in because I need direction. All right. I'm Christian, I'm 25 years old. I work two jobs. I'm a project engineer and a dispatcher.

Starting point is 01:24:41 Jointly combined, I make $120,000 a year. I just purchased, um, my first property in December of last year, the property has two houses on it. I finished renovating both houses. I don't have any credit card debt. I currently double major in school and I don't have any student loan debts because, um, I just don't believe in debt like that. So I've just been working and working and working and- I'm exhausted just listening to your schedule. I'm impressed and exhausted at the same time.

Starting point is 01:25:13 Yeah, like major impressed. Who are you trying to impress? You are like crushing it at 25. Like what causes you to work this hard? My parents split when I was 12 and my dad's, you know, he's not emotional so he invested himself into working. And my mom, she's overly emotional so she left us when I was 12. So from the age of 12 to 21, I raised my siblings and then when I turned

Starting point is 01:25:48 21, my dad got remarried and he kicked me out because I guess he got what he needed, you know, which is a woman that helps him. And so since he didn't have a need for me anymore, he told me to kind of go my own way. And so I went and found a studio apartment, a small little studio apartment that was $700. And I worked and worked from 22 to 23 and saved all that I could. And then when I turned 24, I know the value of real estate.

Starting point is 01:26:22 So I thought to myself that I was gonna buy a house and I was locked to buy a house. I was locked in the process for about a year, credit pull after credit pull. I still maintained it and tried my best to continue, but I was exhausted towards the end of the year and I was getting discouraged. But I serve a glorious and awesome God and God was able to provide me not just one house, but a property that had two houses so in March I finished renovating the back house actually paid my dad to renovate the back house and I

Starting point is 01:26:53 paid him a portion to renovate the front house as well but I didn't I just wanted him to renovate just a room and so he I don't know why he felt entitled. Genuinely, my dad has never paid for my school. My dad's never helped me in anything. He has given me a roof over my head, but I think it's just because I was raising his children. And so he just couldn't believe that I had bought the house either.

Starting point is 01:27:19 So long story short, the house, the back house was finished renovate, which finished getting renovated in May and March. So I moved the tenant in there and then, um, come April, which is last month, I was going to move in. And so I was just working my butt off and I wasn't home. I had moved back with my dad for the period of December to March to make the move in April and he had moved in my uncle while I was gone working.

Starting point is 01:27:50 And so- Without telling you? Without telling me, correct. That's like illegal. Correct. The story gets a little worse. So because I'm such a passive person, I think that's also why my dad thought that he could take over, no matter if he didn't contribute to anything.

Starting point is 01:28:10 But I held off come April 1st. I waited for two weeks and I confronted him on April 14th because I knew, you know, I had to talk to the Holy Spirit and ask God to give me guidance about how to say things and my tone and what to say. So on April 14th, I confronted my dad and told him, Hey, you know, what you did was wrong. And, um, now I can't move into my house because you have someone living there. Can you ask him to leave? And so he got upset and he asked me to leave, kicked me out of his house.

Starting point is 01:28:40 And so it kind of put me in a bind there because I didn't have anywhere to go. So I just do what I do do best. And I just went to work that day. And the next day I came back and I was walked out. So I broke a window in the back of the house to get inside. And he called the police on me and I went to jail. Timeout. All right. Hold on. This is the craziest story. OK.

Starting point is 01:28:59 It's your home. You own both of the homes, correct? Yes. You own them. Does he think this is like a squatter's rights thing if he just hangs out? No, hold on, hold on, hold on. Do you own the two homes on this piece of property that you've been telling us that you renovated? Yeah, I'm the only one on the deed.

Starting point is 01:29:17 I'm the one that made the purchase by myself. Of course, with God's guidance, but I'm the only one that owns the house. No, no, I get it, I get it. So I don't understand how he can call the cops and the cops can arrest you for breaking into your own house. Like, if I want to go smash a window into my house this afternoon, I can do that. That's his prerogative. So I don't understand. So when I bought my house, I moved in with my dad. So in December,

Starting point is 01:29:42 I moved in with my dad to save a few bucks. No, no, I get that. But you left the other two houses on this other piece of property. You weren't in there and he moved your uncle into your house and then locked you out. Oh, well, see, the thing is is that I didn't break into my house.

Starting point is 01:29:57 I moved in with my dad. You broke into your dad's house. Correct, yes. But I still get mail there and everything like that, so. Oh, well, no, okay, all right. Vanessa, I think it's, you've made it clear that you are way too intertwined with family. Your dad is clearly a toxic, abusive person.

Starting point is 01:30:13 I don't know why you had him renovate this and you paid him for this. Like, you need to cut ties here. Clearly, this is not a safe person. Where are you now, as far as, where are you living at this moment? So, um when I went to jail and I got out of jail I went straight to work and then when I got out of work I called the police and asked if they could escort me in my home and asked my uncle to leave and graciously my uncle said that he would leave so I didn't have to go and start the whole entire

Starting point is 01:30:42 civil process. So, I also felt bad and I, uh, he asked if I could give him until that Saturday, um, the day before Easter this past Easter. And so I allowed him until Saturday. Um, and then when I got to my house, I had a few items in the house already because again, I was planning to move into my own home and away from my dad's house. So I had already started moving my stuff from my dad's house into my house. They had taken everything. They took everything that I had there that was mine.

Starting point is 01:31:11 Okay, but your uncle and your dad took all of your stuff? My uncle took all my stuff, yeah, because he was living there, so he took it all. I have court June 13th is coming up and I'm not sure how that's going to go. Court for what? But I'm praying that, you know, the Lord for breaking the window at my dad's house. My dad said that the window was $5,000, so that's initially why he took me, because he can go over $400. Well, you got...

Starting point is 01:31:35 Alright, Vanessa, so here's the deal, sweetheart. I want to help you, and this is an absolute mess, and this, if we keep talking, we could talk to you for two hours, and I got a feeling there's just more rabbit holes. How can we help you today? Because you are working very, very hard. You've proven to be very, very financially smart. So whatever comes out of this judge ruling on the breaking the window, you're gonna be able to cover that cost no matter what it is, correct? Yes. Alright. How can we help you? What's the main thing that George and I can help you with?

Starting point is 01:32:11 I understand that I don't have my family anymore and you're correct, it is a toxic dynamic and so I cut it off completely and I just don't have my dad. I don't have any credit card debt, I don't have any student loan debts, like I said, I pay everything out of cash. The only thing that I did purchase recently was a car, but I did buy a very economic car. I began making money. A big cash? No, so because my credit was lower, it was at 631, I bought the vehicle. The vehicle was a 2018 EcoSport.

Starting point is 01:32:36 It has 40, when I bought it, it has 34,000 miles. How much was the car? $12,000. Okay. And you couldn't save up $12,000 to cover it. So you took out a loan for the difference? Technically I went through a credit union. So-

Starting point is 01:32:52 So you have a total of how much debt now? Including the house. Just not including the mortgage? Just $12,000. Okay, and how much money do you have in savings? Liquid cash. $6,000. Okay, and how much money do you have in savings? Liquid cash? $6,000. Okay.

Starting point is 01:33:07 So your next goal is to knock out this car payment as soon as possible. Throw as much extra on that payment as you can, knock it out, build yourself a fully funded emergency fund, and please, you need to go to therapy to deal with all the trauma that you've experienced. You grew up fast, you had a lot of abuse and toxic people in your life, people running over you. We can't help on a radio call, but therapy will definitely help you work through all of this as you get your financial house in order.

Starting point is 01:33:33 And I would cut something out of your life right now. One of the jobs, or let's press pause on school, is you're fine, and nobody's gonna stop you. But you cannot keep this pace up. And I would dig in with your therapist on that and what they think about what's going on in the schedule in your life. Bless your heart. Thank you so much for calling.

Starting point is 01:34:01 Hey the Memorial Day Sale is here for four days only. Get our most popular hardcovers for only $12. Select the questions for Human's Decks for $11 and so much more. Oh boy, what a deal. I don't know if I like that deal, George. They're practically giving our books away. It's all right. You know, I'm a man of the people, Ken.

Starting point is 01:34:20 Yeah, that's right. So am I. So you can go to ramsaysolutions.com slash store to get our books and so many other things. Great deals. Hardcover books for $12. Unbelievable. ramsysolutions.com slash store. You got big plans, George? Four. This weekend. Oh, I didn't think about that. I might go see a movie. That's very exciting for me. Okay. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:34:42 What movie? It's called Friendship, I believe, with Paul Rudd. Oh. If you're a Paul's called Friendship I believe with Paul Rudd. Oh. If you're a Paul Rudd fan. I do like Paul Rudd. I think it's kind of like an I Love You Man. A little more unhinged and wild. Okay. I gotcha. Looking forward to that. How about you? We, yes, we're going, the whole family gonna see Mission Impossible. That's exciting. It really is. I feel like you're a Mission Impossible guy. I'm a big budget action guy. You like a big stunt. You love Tom Cruise hanging off a chopper.

Starting point is 01:35:09 The whole reason. And you know why this is? I, for whatever reason, can suspend disbelief very quickly. And to truly enjoy a movie, you have to sit there and suspend disbelief. You gotta go, there's no way that he's hanging off the side of a skyscraper like that. Somehow they're doing it in a green screen studio

Starting point is 01:35:26 or something, but I don't think about those things. You've kept your childlike imagination intact. Yeah. I respect that. Yeah, and I tell you what else I like. I like to cheat with the big popcorn. What do you mean cheat? Cheat, you know, I don't eat a lot of junk food. Oh, that's your cheat day.

Starting point is 01:35:40 It really is. I thought you had some kind of hack where you're like, I get a small, but I ask for a large. No, that's you. That would be me. That would be you you're like, I get a small, but I ask for a large. No, that's you. That would be me. That would be you. I stuck my pockets. In fact, I need to go to the movies with you

Starting point is 01:35:49 and see what kind of perks I could get. You'd be impressed at how many candies I can fit in my skinny jeans. I'm really sticking it to you. You think I'm paying seven bucks for your Mike and Ikes? Get out of here, AMC. I know. You're smuggling candy in, George. I am maritime law when I'm at the movie theater.

Starting point is 01:36:03 Yeah. But I'm surprised you don't have all the coupons to where you don't even pay for your movie ticket. Oh, I do use discount. We actually buy discounted movie tickets from Ramsey. Oh, I like that. Yeah. And actually you can buy them through AAA as well.

Starting point is 01:36:14 I think they're like eight bucks instead of 12 or something. So I got to text you the next time I buy a movie. You don't care to save three bucks, Ken. Don't try to toy with my emotions. I really don't. But when you're ready to get real frugal life, it's too short to stress out over saving on a movie ticket. I think life's too short to get price gouged over a $9 popcorn.

Starting point is 01:36:32 You shouldn't be in a position in your life where you feel price gouged over... It's the principle. You'll understand one day. Never. That's the difference between you and me. Hey, you know we always tell couples there's a spender and a saver? We are the spender and the saver. You need people and me. Hey, you know, we always tell couples there's a spender and a saver. We are the spender and the saver. You need people like me.

Starting point is 01:36:48 I know I do. And I need people like you to force me to go out and enjoy my life once in a while. This is true. Find a friend like Ken Coleman, will ya? Or Tim Coleman, as some call him. Tim, the tool man Coleman. I love that.

Starting point is 01:37:01 You've been called the tool a lot, so I think that's a very fitting name for you. I think that's fair. You know, it occurs to me, if I can get you to go see a movie with me, maybe we'll get you and Whitney to double date with Stacey and I. We'd love that. And I'll buy your popcorn if you commit to leave the house.

Starting point is 01:37:15 That's a deal. I'll buy your popcorn, but I don't want to hear you going, oh gee whiz, I can't believe how much it costs. I don't know why I have emphysema in this scenario, but it's not a great impression of me. Oh man, we're having too much fun. Let's go to Sophia in Maui of all places.

Starting point is 01:37:32 Sophia, how can we help? Hi there, thanks for having me on the show. You bet, we're glad to have you. Hopefully you can make us be serious here. Well, I'm just wondering if we should continue to rent or if somehow we can buy a home here in Maui. Tell us more. Just when you say the word Maui, my wallet hurts.

Starting point is 01:37:53 Like my bank account takes a hit when you say the word Maui. How expensive are a normal home in Maui? Not like, you know, creme de la creme. The home you guys are thinking about, tell us what that would set you back. Well, a fixer upper home is about a million dollars. Oh, okay. And tell us more about the fixer upper, like how much fixing? Like, sometimes they're like tear downers. How much is your rent right now? 1500 for a four-bedroom where we have hit the jackpot. Why would you ever leave? I don't think I would. You're in Maui for crying out loud. Well, I'm just not feeling super stable with it because you know if our landlord were to pass away and her children like I just want

Starting point is 01:38:41 something that I know it's mine, I know the payment, and someday, hopefully, we wouldn't have to have a payment at retiring. Sure. All right, tell us your combined income. Anywhere from $200 to $260. Amazing. Okay. And do you guys have any debt? $4,000 less, which will be paid by like next week.

Starting point is 01:39:00 Nice. Awesome. And then we're on to the emergency fund? That should take what, six months? Yes, and that'll be done probably by the end of June. End of June? You can stack that in two months? I have a really big month coming up.

Starting point is 01:39:13 I'm a photographer, so- Oh, nice. And you're crushing it. Money fluctuates. Okay. Which is another reason why I'm a little bit scared to take on a high mortgage payment because I guess if I do have a big emergency fund, but even still, my photography is really reliant on tourism. And like we had the Lahaina fires, we've had COVID, so it's been very apparent that my

Starting point is 01:39:42 income fluctuates and it's very dependent on the period. Well, so here's the deal. I understand you being nervous about a change in landlord, what would we do next? But that is far easier to navigate than a mortgage that just absolutely swallows you whole. Agreed? Agreed.

Starting point is 01:40:03 Okay, so George, what are we talking about? How much money would you like them to put down in a situation like this? Because one of the things I'm concerned about is you said it's a million dollars just to get the the fixer upper, then the fixing part is on top of the million dollars, correct? Yeah, I mean I'm hopeful that things will even out. Prior to COVID, that things will even out. Prior to COVID, things were like six, seven, 100,000. So it's gone up so much in just these last couple of years. What is keeping you guys in Maui proper? What's keeping us here?

Starting point is 01:40:38 Yeah, have you looked outside of there for a home? You know, what kind of commute would you be looking at based on your jobs? Cause it's like saying, hey, I live in New York City, I wanna own a home. And it's like, well, you live in New York City. So you know what I mean? It's, you guys live in one of the most expensive places

Starting point is 01:40:52 in the world. So it's not a shocker, but it's just going, how can we still become homeowners and still live in this area? What's the kind of creative compromise we need? Well, we're both born and raised here and we both have family here. So we're established in that sense.

Starting point is 01:41:11 And I wouldn't make the income that I make probably anywhere else. Right. Well, so how long are we? And I'm very established. So how long is it going to take you to save up, George? So you guys make $2 to $2.60. Once you guys are debt free with an emergency fund,

Starting point is 01:41:26 how much cash could you stack up every single year if you were real serious, real intense? Could you put away 100,000 a year net income? Probably. Okay, so that means in three years you'd have 300,000. I assume your income would go up over time if things go well? Yes, I have ideas to expand my business

Starting point is 01:41:47 to include more photographers and oversee things. So there is possibility of growth there. Love it. And then could you be a little further out on the outskirts versus right there where the action's hot or is all of it there? I think it's a whole island. I mean, you can't really escape,

Starting point is 01:42:03 but are there places that are a little bit further out? We're in the countryside, so we are out. We're not like looking for something on the beach in Wailoa. Right, so it's still a million dollars anywhere you look in Maui. Pretty much. Hey, what's happening real quick on the ground with Lahaina? We hear all these conspiracy theories and stories. I just have to ask what is it being rebuilt because I actually stayed there one time with my wife and it's lovely area well no one knows for sure I've heard that the part of Front Street that's closest to the water because of erosion and permitting and stuff they can't build at

Starting point is 01:42:40 least that half of the road so I really don't know what they're gonna do with Fun Street, but a lot of the residents have gotten building and many people have already moved back in to their own family homes. That's good news. Yeah, so things are really looking well. Okay, well that's good because that's one of the prettiest places I've ever been in my life. Just unbelievably gorgeous. Well here's the deal, this is gonna take patience. This might be a five-year plan of stacking up a hundred grand in a high-yield savings

Starting point is 01:43:10 account and it's longer than five years maybe even investing that money but this can happen. How old are you two? I'm 31. Okay you're fine. So let's say by 36 we're gonna get into a home and it's longer than you wanted it to be. It's not the ideal scenario but this is the reality of living in a very high cost of living area and wanting to do it right. So the house is a blessing, not a burden. Our scripture of the day comes from 1 Corinthians 13 verses 6 and 7. Love does not delight in evil, but rejoices with the truth.

Starting point is 01:43:49 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. And our quote of the day from James A. Garfield. George, you know who James A. Garfield is? I believe he was a president. That is correct, George. I'm very proud of you. That's all the knowledge. I don't know if he was the sixth president or 19th,

Starting point is 01:44:05 but probably somewhere in there. Somewhere in there. The truth will set you free, but first it will make you miserable. Wow. That's a good one. He was the 20th president. He was not the most inspirational guy, based on that quote.

Starting point is 01:44:17 Yeah, you didn't need to be back in the 1800s. I don't know that the truth always makes you miserable, does it? I don't know why they were quoting these people. It was all, you know, they were like. Somebody wrote it down. Barely had daguerreotypes back then, let alone broadcast.

Starting point is 01:44:29 That's a good point. No, tweets. John is up in Jacksonville, Florida. John, how can we help today? Hey guys, how are y'all today? Well, we're having a blast. What's going on with you? Yeah, doing great, man.

Starting point is 01:44:41 Hey, so just got a quick question. So I've been married 27 years. Hey, me too. Way to go, man. Hey, so just got a quick question. So I've been married 27 years. Hey, me too. Way to go, man. Yep. Amazing years. Yep. Yep. Um, we did great with our finances on day one and then day two started terrible. Right? So we've been not, we've been terrible with our money for 27 years. Long story short, we finally got all of our credit cards paid down. Uh have no debt on our credit cards. We have two vehicles left to pay on and then our house. The reason why I called today was we got a 19 year old daughter who's an awesome

Starting point is 01:45:16 kid. She's our only child. She got a full scholarship to Alabama. She's doing fantastic. And so now we're trying to decide on how to start helping her build credit. And just need... Did you not learn anything from the last 9,855 days? Well... Credit is not the answer. Yeah, and that's what I know i've been listening here all are i'm an outside sales got so i drive all the time so over the past couple weeks i've been listening very intently

Starting point is 01:45:51 and you know i hear that you know who cares about credit we don't we don't we don't care about our credit score uh... but it doesn't mean built into my mind since day one so it it but the direction on okay from others if I'm not going to start building her credit, how can I start getting her on the right track? Because she has no idea about finances. Here's the very simple strategy. You teach her that money comes from work and we don't buy things if we don't have all the money. That's a masterclass in personal finance.

Starting point is 01:46:26 That's how Dave Ramsey built the empire we sit in today. And so the hard part now for her is seeing all of her friends do all these other things and have nicer cars than her and get into homes before she does. And she's going, well, if it would just be so much easier if I could just finance my life. And so that's gonna be the hard part as a 19 year old girl in college is being not falling for all the traps and avoiding the temptation. But the way you can help her is helping her go,

Starting point is 01:46:55 hey, let's find out a solid way to get you a car. And we're gonna do it in cash. We're gonna shop, I'm gonna help you with the research, help you with the negotiation. Maybe it's, hey, I'm gonna help you with the deposit on the apartment and we're gonna figure this out help you with the negotiation. Maybe it's, hey, I'm gonna help you with the deposit on the apartment and we're gonna figure this out together. But I don't think it's, let's teach her

Starting point is 01:47:09 how to pay a credit card balance every month. So you guys would just, you wouldn't start out with, because we've been going back and forth, did we get her a student visa, did we get her a student credit card? For what? Hold on, hold on, okay, I've been sitting here listening. I want to join.

Starting point is 01:47:26 I keep wondering why does she need any of this? Yeah, let's go back to that. John, what as a father, I love your heart, by the way. We're not picking on you. But let's reset all this. OK, what is it that you want your daughter to learn the most or what do you want her to have the most? Let's do both of those.

Starting point is 01:47:41 Two quick questions, very simple. Don't overthink it. What is it that you want to teach her the most. Let's do both of those. Two quick questions, very simple, don't overthink it. What is it that you want to teach her the most about money? How to spend it wisely and how to give it wisely. Okay, great. So very simple, very simple. Teach her the 80-20 rule, okay? Live on 80% at a minimum, okay? Give 10% tie to the church if you believe in that, if you go to church, and then save the other 10. Just a basic concept to her, just teaching that concept.

Starting point is 01:48:11 She doesn't need to go into debt, so then teach her 15% of her income. That's got to change by 80-20. I'm just kind of walking you through all this, the idea of live on less than you make, and then start showing her adjustments on that. You should be investing 15% of your income from the day you start working, right? If you have no debt and she should get out of school hopefully with no debt, correct?

Starting point is 01:48:31 Correct. Okay then, so pick up where you want to leave her and go, hey babe, I don't want you to get a credit card. You're gonna get applications in the mail. They're gonna be on the college campus. They're gonna be on the campus, don't do it. Here's why, like explain to her why debt is awful. And by the way, walk her through the very question

Starting point is 01:48:49 you came to us with. Why she doesn't need a credit score. George has got all kinds of content on that. He, you know, so walk her through why she doesn't need a credit score. Hey, babe, you're going to hear this. You need a credit score. You need a credit score.

Starting point is 01:49:01 Here's why you don't. You can actually get a mortgage without a credit score. You can rent a car with a debit card. All this stuff, you gotta set her free on all this stuff that she's gonna hear and then help her understand investing. And there's two important pieces of this. Number one, John, is you leading with your mistakes. Yeah, there's plenty of them.

Starting point is 01:49:22 Morris Coth and Todd, and so your daughter probably saw mom and dad maybe do well, maybe struggle, maybe have a money fight. And maybe she didn't see some of the stuff where you go, hey, listen, I know it's tempting to do X, Y, Z. I made the mistake of doing this. Here's what happened. And so that's part one. Part two is digging into her dreams, her fears,

Starting point is 01:49:43 her questions around money, and then helping her answer those questions. And that might then mean her vision is to graduate debt free, upgrade the car, get a great job, and be a homeowner one day. Great, how can we do all that with wisdom so that it's a blessing and not a burden and not try to fast track it and shortcut it with debt?

Starting point is 01:50:01 And a way you could do that is say, hey, here's a book from this guy, George Campbell, or here's the audio book. Would you listen to this with me? Cause I wanna learn too. And this guy, apparently he tries to make money fun. Would you do this with me? Could be a fun way to connect.

Starting point is 01:50:15 We do a little book study over FaceTime. I don't know, whatever makes sense for you guys. But I think that making it fun and digging into her goals and what she's after versus you just saying, you gotta learn this financial literacy stuff, time to build your credit. I think we were doing our kids a disservice by telling them to get a credit card

Starting point is 01:50:31 and good luck, God bless. Because I found that credit cards are the gateway drug. Once you're comfortable with one payment in your life, you go, well, I already got a payment, what's a car payment? I already got a bunch of student loans, might as well add to it, get a big old mortgage, I'll figure it out eventually. And I want her to avoid that

Starting point is 01:50:47 pain that she doesn't even know exists yet. Yeah, yeah, so she'll leave college with no student debt, she'll have a 2022 car paid off, so she won't have any car payments, so she's gonna leave college with nothing, right? No debt and money in the bank. You know what I would do, John? This is just me. I'm planning on doing this with all three of my kids, because unless they do something on their own that I can't control, they're gonna be in the same boat, right?

Starting point is 01:51:19 And so I'm planning on opening up a mutual fund for them, and that be their graduation gift. I think of all the things. Go put a nice chunk of change in there. Yeah, I thought of that as well, you know, and God bless her man She's always calling home saying hey, let me get a job I want to get a job and we're like, you know, and she again she's our only hold on second Oh, what do you say to her? I got a feeling you were going somewhere and you wrote What do you say when she calls home says I'll get a job. I'll get a job. What do you say? and you were going somewhere and you were, what do you say when she calls home and says, I'll get a job, I'll get a job?

Starting point is 01:51:44 What do you say? Well, I don't want them to get a job. Why? I want to focus on her, because I mean, the girl is, she's worked so hard, Wait, wait. Her whole life to.

Starting point is 01:51:55 Wait, you robbed her. Dude, call her after this phone call and say, I just talked to Ken and George on the show and they just hammered me and said that, I should have never said no and squelched that. She needs to work because she wants to work. What happened is you denied her an opportunity for growth. She wants to work.

Starting point is 01:52:13 She does. Then let her work. Bless that. Yeah. She's going to, she's going to all of a sudden fall off and start getting Ds and Fs. Am I right? Well, she's not, she's so afraid of getting that first B, she's never gotten a B in her life.

Starting point is 01:52:28 Who freaking cares? Let her get the B. And that's what I told her, I graduated college with C's and I got a degree, right? So I keep on telling her, C's get degrees. I had, I'm gonna trump you, John, I had C's and I didn't get my degree. Boo yah. How about that one's and I didn't get my degree. Boo yah.

Starting point is 01:52:45 How about that one? And I don't freaking care! And I'm never gonna go get it. So, last thing, John, you gotta clean up your mess before you can help someone else. Put your own mask on first. Get rid of these car loans. We can help her down the road. Sounds like she's in better shape than you are, potentially. And let her go get a job so she can have pride in the fact that she made the money and she gets to go spend some of it. This is The Ranch and Show.

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