The Ramsey Show - App - Say "No" to Things so You Can Say "Yes" to Your Future! (Hour 2)

Episode Date: October 18, 2021

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Thank you very much. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studio, it's The Ramsey Show, where America hangs out to have a conversation about your life, your money, your purpose, and your career. I'm George Campbell, joined today by my colleague, Ken Coleman, host of The Ken Coleman Show, best-selling author, and all-around great guy. Ken, it's a pleasure to have you on. Thank you, George.

Once again. We've been hanging out a lot lately. We have. We have. Today, I felt like it was time to bring a little fall to the Ramsey Show. With the vest and the plaid. Yeah, the teams have a little bit of fun with me today on the Ken Coleman show. They were giving me a little bit of a hard time, you know, like asking me if I was going to cut down some trees later. You clearly haven't chopped a lot of trees in your day. No, if you've

ever, if I ever get the privilege to meet you all, if you shake my hand, you'll see that there's not a lot of calluses. No, no. Now see, you had to say that. No, I don't moisturize my hands. There's nothing wrong with that. I have to hand my man card in. All right, America, call in and let me know if you think moisturizer is okay.

I think more men need to be moisturizing. No woman wants to touch that crusty, leathery hand. All right. I got to tell you, George, there's no way that the majority of Americans think that dudes need to be moisturizing their hands. I might ask Stacey Coleman. I might phone a friend on this one. I guarantee you Stacey's going to go, no. I want to feel like I'm touching Ken's hands. I resign. I resign from this Coleman. I might phone a friend on this one. I guarantee you Stacy's going to go, no. I want to feel like I'm touching Ken's hands.

I resign. I resign from this conversation. Let's do what we do, I guess not best, but pretty good. Taking calls from you all. 888-825-5225. The phone lines are open and they're waiting for you. Katie joins us in Charlotte, North Carolina. Katie, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Hey, thank you. Absolutely. How can we help? Yeah, I was calling. So my husband and I are in our mid-30s, and we have three little kids, and he is looking into going back to school. And we've been following through y'all's baby steps. We've started saving for our kids' college.

And him going back to school wasn't necessarily always on the horizon, but we have saved up a good bit in hopes to get a rental property. But based on our income, we would qualify for FAFSA, but because we have money saved up, it's knocking us out of the bracket to be able to qualify for FAFSA, but because we have money saved up, it's knocking us out of the bracket to be able to qualify for that. So we don't want to do student loans, but we're kind of trying to figure out what is a good way to do that or should that money go towards school. So what was driving this decision for him to go back to school? Is it a career change? Is it an

income thing? Yeah, a career change. What's he moving into? He would like to go back for accounting. What's he doing now? He works at the police department. So does he need to get a four-year degree or two years? What does he actually need? For what he would eventually like to get to, it would definitely be a four-year. So he has a two-year degree at this point, but he would like a four-year. So he's got to get two more years done? Yes. Is the plan to do that part-time online while he's working? Yes.

Okay. How much is that looking to cost? Well, he actually is looking to do it full-time online, but it looks like it'll be about six to seven thousand a semester okay so round up we're looking at 28 grand oh no no no no uh you're doing two years yes okay yeah so about 24 25 24 25 okay um where's the income coming in when he goes full-time as a student online um we will both still be working so he's working full-time while going to school full-time oh wow

okay all right so he won't have a life for two years yeah we'll be busy for sure yeah okay all right okay i got it but you've got money set aside, you said, for a rental property that you guys are wanting to get into? Yes. How much money is set aside? Do what? How much money is set aside? We have about almost $40,000 right now. Oh, great.

And are you able to cash flow school without touching the $40,000? Or would you need to dip into that? We would need to dip into that? We would need to dip into that. Okay. Yeah, I think the priority here is to have him graduate debt-free. I think the rental property is a great dream, but it needs to be put on hold until he's finished with this education. Okay. So it's okay to say, hey, I know this was allocated towards the rental property, but really this is going to help us go to school debt-free, and the rental property might be two years down the road after that. But have you paid for your primary residence? No, we still have about half of it left, I think. Okay. I would

encourage you guys to pay off the mortgage first and then get into rental property. And when you do, do it with cash. And I know that's going to slow you down. This might be a five, ten-year plan instead of the two-year plan. But I don't want to see you guys strapped with a mortgage and then the rental property mortgage, and then you can't find a renter, and the school situation's in flux. So I want you to finish out the school debt-free and focus on paying down that mortgage. Are you guys in Baby Step 6 otherwise? Yeah. Okay, great.

So you're already investing. You've got the fully funded emergency fund. You're saving for those three kids for their otherwise? Yes. Okay, great. So you're already investing. You've got the fully funded emergency fund. You're saving for those three kids for their college? Yes. How much more, Katie, are you guys projecting that your husband's going to make once he gets the accounting degree and then he gets into the field? We're hoping it'd be, I guess, about like a third more than he's making currently. Okay, great. All right. Well, you know, listen, I don't think that you disagree, but I want to make sure that you hear what George is saying,

that doing it the way he said to do it is going to take a little longer, but the impact is going to be so much bigger for you guys financially. Down the line. Okay. You guys are in great shape. Do you know how many people call the Ken Coleman Show every day that wish they had $40,000 in the bank to be able to cash flow? Their husband changing careers and then have some left over? It's a lot.

Right. So you guys are in great shape. Be patient. Patience is the wonder drug. I'm just going to tell you. All right? Yeah. It's not the easiest to be.

You're probably right. It's horrible. It's absolutely horrible. I'm going to do a little mini-sermonette, George. Okay, I'm here for it. But the good news is there will be no altar call or an offering. Don't take my money. I'm the only one in here, Ken.

These are the kind of sermons people like. In our world, we have glamorized persistence, right? Get up, hustle, hustle, hustle, hustle, and that's very important. But there is no long-term persistence. You will burn out whether the goal is to get debt-free, lose weight, get healthy in your relationships, get a great gig and a job, and do work you love. I don't care what the objective is persistence absent of patience will run out that was good tweet that if you're listening so here's why i can get up and go go go go hustle hustle hustle hustle hustle but if i'm not building the muscle and the discipline of waiting and waiting for it to pay off then then I won't stay with it.

Because we humans are creatures of progress, right? We want it now, and it's been exacerbated by the technology and the digital age, and we can get everything right now. Like our kids, I need it now, I need it now. Well, we all have that. But the reality is anything worth getting is a journey and there's a struggle. And you will not stay with it if you don't learn the discipline of patience. I persist.

There's tension because I've got to wait on it. But learning to wait on it is what keeps me coming back, gives me the ability to show up the next day and the next day and the next day. Patience. It's the wonder drug. Right there. Keep learning. Pastor Ken Coleman It's the wonder drive. Right there. Keep learning. Pastor Ken Coleman bringing it today on the Ramsey Show. More of it coming up. I'm sure most of you have seen the news recently about ransomware, cybercrimes, identity theft, and more and more data breaches.

If you thought it was bad before, let me tell you, it's gone off the charts and it's out of control. It's impossible any longer to just bury your head and hope it doesn't happen to you. Today, it really is a matter of when it will happen, and not if. We all live in this cyber world and need to make sure we have the best protection possible without wasting money. We'll be right back. takes over the work if you become a victim. They even provide $1 million in stolen funds protection, and kids are free on their family plan. Go to Zander.com or call 800-356-4282. This is The Ramsey Show.

I'm George Campbell, joined today by my pal Ken Coleman. Listen, we had a big week last week, a huge launch. Borrowed Future documentary out now. If you aren't strapped with student loan payments, the odds are you know someone who is. Millions of people are putting their lives on hold. They can't buy a house or have kids because they are stuck. Or even worse, they're waiting and waiting and waiting for the government to save them with student loan forgiveness. What a joke. 2% rate on that student loan forgiveness from the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program. Our team produced a brand-new documentary feature full-length film, Borrowed Future, and it is out now.

It uncovers the dark side of the student loan industry and exposes how the system is built to work against you. You'll see Dave Ramsey weigh in on the epic failure otherwise known as the student loan program, along with featured interviews from industry insiders and thought leaders like Seth Godin, Seth Frotman, and Dr. John Deloney. We're coming at this hard, folks. We're taking big swings at the student loan problem with the goal to arm parents and students across the country with the truth. And here's the truth. You don't have to take out loans to get a college education.

You can be a student without a student loan. You can graduate debt-free and avoid the predatory student loan industry. Borrowed Future is available to watch now. You can find it on Apple TV, Amazon Prime Video, Google Play, or BorrowedFuture.com. Let me also throw in here that you may not even need the traditional college education. Whoa, Ken, you just blew some people's minds out there. I know, I know. Here I go again. And disclaimer, I'm not anti-college education. However, let me give a two-part question for you parents out there and those of you who are trying to decide, all right, I'm thinking about career pivot.

Do I need a new degree to get where I want to go? Two-part question. Really simple. Here we go. The first one is, is a degree the only way to get where I want to go? The only way. Second question is, is the degree the best way to get where I want to go? Folks, this is mind-numbingly simple.

But if the answer is yes to the only way, lawyer, doctor, okay. If the answer is it is the best way, okay, there's still a way to do it okay there's still a way to do it there's still a way to plan there's still a way to save there's still a way to cash flow your way through it uh but this i this this idea that the only way to career success is through a degree um is the is the byproduct of a marketing message that has been crammed down our throats for going on about 50 years. And so be mature enough, mom and dad, to be okay talking to your kid and helping your kid figure out what they want to do. And if a degree isn't the way, the only way, get over it.

Nobody cares. Nobody cares. By the way, I love that question. When you ask somebody, when was the last time you went to a doctor or some professional services that required a degree, and you say to them, have you asked the person where they got their degree? Like, last time you were in the dentist chair, did you go, hey, real quick, before you do the old scrape, I'd like to see your diploma. Like, nobody does that. It's just art on the wall.

Nobody gives a crud where you went to college. Yep. You're the only person that cares. It's a pride on the wall. Nobody gives a crud where you went to college. Yep. You're the only person that cares. It's a pride thing. Right. Unless you're on the football team, I don't care. I like football, so I'm going to cheer for school. But if it's like, I don't care where you went to school,

unless you're a football player or basketball or a major sport, nobody cares where you went to school. Nobody. We've got to make some sound decisions here based on logic. It's about a ticket. Education could be an online certification. Could be an apprenticeship. The education is what do I need to learn to be able to actually do what I want to do.

That's the simplicity of it. It doesn't necessarily need to be a degree. So I wanted to put that in there because that's part of what's driving this crisis as well, is the cultural pressure that says, if my kid doesn't leave high school and go get a degree, he or she is a loser. And that's a lie from the pit of hell. Was I clear on that? Pretty clear. Okay, good. Yeah, more of that in Borrowed Future. Go check it out, 88-minute documentary, borrowedfuture.com is the place to go. All right, let's go to the phone lines. Open phone lines. 888-825-5225.

Dale is in Pueblo, Colorado. Dale, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Thanks for taking my call, guys. Sure. How can we help? A couple questions for Ken here real quick. I recently had a bad horseback accident and lost both my legs. Oh, Dale, I'm so sorry.

Sorry. That's okay. Dale, how long ago was that? About two years. Oh, man. I'm so sorry. I'm trying to find a career that I can go to. Yeah. Dale, go too. Yeah.

Dale, what were you doing for work prior to the accident? Managing people. You were leading a team of people? Farm and home industry, yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. And have you been on physical disability? Are you on disability

right now? Just recently. Just recently got there? Yeah. Okay. The reason I'm asking this is I want to see what maybe our moves are here. What kind of financial shape are you in? Bad. Wow. What kind of debt do you have? What is it? I don't have any debt. I don't have any debt. It's not a problem. It's just my life.

I can barely afford to live. Okay. What are your disability payments right now? What are you getting in on a monthly basis? $1,300. Okay, $1,300. Are you living by yourself, living with someone? What's your...

With my fiance, there's constantly problems there too. Okay. Okay, $1,300. Are you living by yourself, living with someone? What's your cost? My fiancé has constantly problems there too. Okay, all right. If the fiancé was not in the picture in your area of Colorado, what would rent cost you? About $900 a month. Okay, so there's hardly any margin there at all. So we definitely need to get income. I can make another $1,300 that I can make on the disability.

I'm sorry. I can make an additional $1,300 a month on top of my disability and I don't have to suffer any loss of insurance or anything like that. All right, so with the injury being two years ago, are you able to function in and out of society, just in a wheelchair? No, I walk every day. Oh, you do? I still walk every day.

I farm every day. I still have horses. I still ride horses. Okay, now wait a second. Three times a week. Okay, so obviously this is a traumatic injury, but physically you are not limited now. I am limited to weight picking up, but I'm limited to I can't pick up over 40 pounds. I understand that, but if I heard you correctly, you said that you used to lead people.

You were in a management position prior to the accident. Yes. Well, Dale, while I am grieving for you and this is incredibly traumatic and i understand your emotion what's keeping you from getting back if you're riding horses and walking all over the place and being physically active what's keeping you from getting back into the workforce and leading people again you lost your. You did not lose the ability to lead. Well, I think there's a lot of things going on. I know. Society doesn't look at disabilities the way they used to.

I understand. And by the way, Dale, I'm not minimizing that. What I'm trying to get you to identify is what's really holding you back. Well, the kidney failure is holding me back too. I'm on dialysis now, three days a week. Okay. All right. So there, okay. I was not aware of that. I didn't catch that.

So you're limited into how much time you can work because of the dialysis. Yeah, I can rearrange that a little bit if I need to rearrange the evenings or weekends or whatever. I'm not opposed to that. Dale, have you been seeing... Just trying. Here's the deal. We only got about a minute, and, have you been seeing... Just trying. Here's the deal. We only got about a minute, and I don't want to rush this, but here's the thing.

I think there's two things you've got to do, and I think you need to be doing them consecutively. If you've already seen counseling, you need to continue to get some counseling for the grief and the trauma. You've got some relationship issues going on with the fiancé. You have got to get healthy emotionally, and you've got to get with a professional. If you've not done counseling, you've got to do that. Simultaneously, I want you to try to work your dialysis schedule out to where you can work more hours,

and I want you to get back in it. There are a lot of people who'd love to give you a second chance because you're a hero. You've overcome an unbelievable, devastating injury, and you haven't forgot how to lead people. And I'm going to suggest to you, Dale, listen, that you loving on people and leading people will do wonders for you getting healthy again. You need greater income to get that spine straighter again and believe in yourself that you can in fact recover. You can in fact do this. I'm George Campbell, joined today by Ken Coleman. This is The Ramsey Show, and in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions, on the debt-free stage, we've got LaShante from Washington, D.C., and I understand you are debt-free?

I am. I love to hear it. Uh-oh. I'm so excited. So what area do you live? I live in Maryland. Okay. But I'm about 10 minutes from D.C.

All right. I'll take it. So how much have you paid off? $400,000, a total of $470,000, but in the last five years, $405,000. Wow. Okay. And how long did this take? $405,000 has been the last five years.

Okay. So we'll call it five years, $405,000. Yes. And what years okay so we'll call it five years 405 yes and what was your range of income during this time um i started uh at 85,000 and now i'm at 185 i want to hear the story on that where did that jump in income come from um i am an instructional systems designer but i'm also a landlord and I also work part-time. Wow. So talking about working like no one else. My goodness.

This one here works like no one else. My goodness. Woo! Look at you. You got three job titles. That's right. That's incredible. I got about six, but I just told you three.

You just only told us three? Yeah. Okay. Wow. Very impressive. She's whole lots of fabulous. Can I just tell you that right now? This is going to be good.

I'm very impressed. These numbers are hurting my brain. So what type of debt was this, $405,000? All real estate. Wow. So I'll just rewind for a second. Okay. I met Dave on the radio in 2007.

Okay. So that's when, of course, you do your $1,000 emergency fund. You look at all your commercial debt, all your student loan debt. That was $65,000. And so once I cleared that out, that took me three years. Then I started working on the real estate stuff. And that's been the last five years. Wow.

So what kind of real estate is this? My house and I also owned a condo that I sold in May. Whoa. Unbelievable. Yes. So you Unbelievable. Yes. So you're totally crazy. The house and everything. Everything.

Look at you. That's fantastic. So what real estate do you own now? Just my house. Just the house. Yes. Wow. You are incredible.

But I'm looking. I bet you are. You're looking for some investment property. I'm looking for something else. Okay. How do you have time to look for anything with your six jobs and the three you only told us? I want to know how much time you're squeezing out of the 24 hours I have.

You make time, Ken. You know that. Oh. She just dropped that on you. You make time for what matters, right? I'm not messing with her. I thought that was a pretty good serve over the net. She just smoked it right by my ear.

So five years ago, because you've known about Day for a long time now. Five years ago, though, something happened. What got you on this journey? So what I was able to do, I bought my house during the real estate boom. That was in 2005. And so I had a prepayment penalty on my mortgage. And so I wasn't able to refinance or do anything for 10 years. I was going to have to pay a penalty of like $15,000.

So in 2016, I was able to get out of my penalty, refinance. I refinanced for 10 years and I killed it in five. Woo. I'm telling you. Get in front of LaShante at your own risk. At your own risk. She will absolutely motor over you. I love it.

So what were the sacrifices? What did you do? Obviously, you had a lot of side jobs here. Is that what did i love it so what were the sacrifices what did you do obviously you had a lot of side jobs here is that what did it for you what were those sacrifices so in my home i have a town home i actually had a contractor come in and i kind of have this one of my friends calls it an in-house in-law suite and so i rent that out to young ladies that moved to the washington D.C. area. You know, we're a very transient area. So always someone coming to go to school, always someone coming to get a new job. And so my space that I have, it's by word of mouth.

Everybody knows that that space is there. And so when my tenant moves out, people say, LaChante, is the space available? Yes, it's available. And so someone else moves in. So that's been a part of my process as well. Wow. And when I had my condo, I also had a tenant there. So you had some rental income coming in on top of some of these side jobs. Wow. What was the most lucrative side job for you? It may be the one that I'm doing right now. What's that one?

Are you trying to be secretive? I monitor data centers. Oh, interesting. You monitor data centers. Yeah. Okay. All right. So do you sleep at all?

Sometimes. I'm sleeping while I'm here in Nashville. How about that? That's good. That's incredible. You have earned it. What would you say is the key to getting out of debt? The got to wanna.

Okay. You got to wanna sacrifice. Sleep. That was good. You got to wanna sacrifice. Write that down. I'm going to spell it out. You got to wanna sacrifice energy.

You got to wanna budget. You got to wanna say no to yourself. And you got to wanna say yes to your future i love that wow all right we're gonna stay on this theme because you're preaching now you're getting warmed up you're riling up can over here i'm gonna put the ball on the tee for you here i love the gotta wanna yeah by the way if you're keeping score at home that's g-o-t-t-a gotta wanna w-a-n-n- That's fantastic. That right there will preach. Gotta wanna. But here's what I want to know.

What was the big wanna driving this? What's driving you? What's your big why behind the wanna? There's a couple. Number one, legacy. I was born to very young parents, Lewis and Toya Davis. They had me when they were 18.

Wow. So the way when I was presented with college, there was no funds for college. So I did have to take out some loans. And so I just wanted to have something for my niece or my nephew or my own children or some children that I impact their lives. And so that will be the legacy that I leave and also for my mom and dad. How proud of you are they? They're so proud of me. We were supposed to come here in August, but Hurricane Rita kept us away and they would have been right here.

But I got a second chance because I came to Business Boutique. All right, all right. And so I'm here now. That's so great. So they'll be looking at the replay. I love it. Wow. So did you have any cheerleaders along the way?

Yes. One is right here in the audience. Her name is Johnny's Hair. Is she filming me right now? I'll give her away. Of JLH Partners. She is, yeah. Yes, we met in grad school in 2004 at George Washington University.

And so we have been neck and neck. She also is a landlord. She also is an IT guru. So we've been able to compare notes. She's also going through her debt-free journey. And it's just a blessing to be able to have friends that are doing what you do. Yeah, huge. Wow.

That's incredible. So can I ask how old you are? Oh, George. Only because I want to inspire so many people out there. Oh, boy. Is it dangerous? Yes. It's not dangerous.

Okay. I'd like you to guess first, and then I'll tell you. George, George. Here's the thing. I'm not scared to guess. Hold on. I'm not going to let my colleague step into this and then I'll tell you. George, George. Here's the thing. I'm not scared to guess. George, hold on. I'm not going to let my colleague step into this place. I was so excited.

No, George. Step in, George. Step in. 34. Oh, I love you forever. I am 44. That was close. My heart is racing right here, folks. He was so scared.

My heart is racing. You are an inspiration. I mean, you're a baby step seven. Yes. Nothing's going to stop you. No. A lot of people out there have a lot of excuses, and they got all the butts in the world, but she's got a got a wanna.

She's got a got a wanna. I just want to know if part of the got a wanna was those shoes you're wearing. Always. I'm always going into the room right and fabulous. Even without the sparkly heels, she's got enough sparkle in her personality. Aw, thank you. You are just a joy and have such an amazing personality. You've just made my day.

Yes, absolutely. So let's get to this. We've got a copy of The Legacy Journey for you. You're already living that. You told us that was your big why, and now you get to live that out. We also have a copy of The Total Money Makeover. Hopefully you can inspire another friend to get on this debt-free journey along the way and pay that forward.

All right, you ready for this? I am. This is the moment we've all been waiting for. All right, it's LaShante from Washington, D.C. area. $405,000 paid off in five years, making $85,000 up to $185,000. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. So something I used to sing to myself's hear a debt-free scream. So, something I used to sing

to myself. I'm debt-free. I'm debt-free. No more chains holding me. Once was lost. God set me free. Thank the Lord.

I'm debt-free. I'm debt-free! Touchdown! There it is. She pulled us in with a little singing and then went to the screaming. Wow. Fantastic. What a voice.

Yes. That's what Baby Step 7 does for you. I don't think that'll do it for me. I won't sing that great. What an inspiration, Ken. Fantastic. Thank you so much for being here. More The Ramsey Show coming up. you are listening to the ramsey show i'm george camel host of the fine print and

entree leadership podcast joined today by my colleague ken coleman host of the ken coleman show our blinds question of the day is coming up find out for yourself why blinds.com is the number one online retailer of custom window coverings you get free samples free shipping and with the new promos they run every month you'll save even more use promo code ramsey to get the best deal today's question comes from Luna in Kentucky. I'm going to college for accounting and I have a debt-free full ride. I currently work in a factory to help pay the bills while I'm in school. I find myself hating people the older I get and I'm only 31. Boy, that took a dark turn fast, George. I didn't see that. I didn't read that

ahead of time. That's probably for the best. Kind of caught me off guard there. Wow. Only 31 and hating people. I don't mean to sound bitter. Too late. But people are just aggravating to deal with after a while. I can handle them in small doses, but it's more of a headache than I care to express to anyone out loud.

Is accounting a good path for me, or is there a better career for someone like me? Okay, so Luna, I appreciate the question. I love the raw honesty, but this is not a career question. This is an emotional, personal health question. And what I mean by that is, if you are finding yourself hating people the older you get we want to get to the bottom of what's causing this not no longer an irritant but an abhorrent disgust for people that's a you thing see you're the common denominator and all these other people if there's a common denominator around this hate, it's you. Why?

I really sincerely am not being sarcastic here. I think you've got to get some counseling and discover what it is that's irritating you. I think you're using hate a little too freely here. I'm going to go ahead and assume you really don't hate people. But I could see that people irritate you and maybe suck the life out of you. But again, you're the common denominator. I would focus on what it is that seems to irritate you, and you've got to get some tools, mental and emotional tools and strategies that a counselor can help you with because

there is no career that I could suggest that's going to heal this issue. The issue is you and your irritation with people. We've got to fix that. Then the rest of it takes care of itself. Yeah, that's an interesting question. She's going into accounting here, and in accounting, you have to deal with people. Well, you could say, I mean, I could sit here

and brainstorm all I want to about different things. You can work from home and do some things digitally. There's some careers where you're not going to be around people as much, but that's not going to solve the issue. That's not going to take care of the problem. Yeah. But I appreciate the honesty. She needs some healthy relationships in her life, because my assumption is people may not like being around her. I'm guessing you don't have too much of a chipper personality, if that's the attitude.

She's not Mrs. Sunshine, I can tell you that. But, you know, again, there's some pain there, and I'm not making light of that. It's just you've got to get healthy. Yeah. And back to her question, is accounting a good path for me? Is there a better career path for someone like me? I think accounting could be a great career path, but we've got to deal with this issue. Yeah, I'm not going to answer that.

I mean, it's like this is not a career path question. It's like, sure, go do accounting, but if people hate you so much, well, you know, maybe you get that office down in the basement like the guy in Office Space with the red stapler. That's a safe place. It's kind of the future for you. That's no fun for anybody. Well, thanks for the question, Luna. We're going to the phone lines now. Jennifer joins us in Portland, Oregon.

Jennifer, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hello. So my issue is we have a 2013 Dodge Journey with over 140,000 miles and it has a lot of issues, but it's still running. And my husband wants to trade it in for a newer vehicle with less issues. And I don't see the benefit of that because it's still working and running. And I don't want to go further into debt because we're still on baby step two. Okay. What kind of debt are you guys paying off right now? We have one credit card, a couple of doctor bills, and the biggest thing is his student loans.

How much debt total? A little over $40,000, $42,000. And what's your household income? Right now, it just bumped up to $70,000. Okay. And I'm hoping to start work now that our kids are back in full-time school. Okay. So that will bring the income up? A little bit, yeah. Okay. So trading in the car and the issues, that's one thing. But what I would do if I was in your shoes is just start a sinking fund for a car you can pay in cash for. Is he wanting to go into debt for a car? Yeah, he wants to get like a $20,000 vehicle, and I just don't see the benefit of that.

I mean, yes, it's newer, but we're still getting a used vehicle with possibly more issues. What's his logic of getting a $20,000 vehicle? I honestly don't know. He thinks that since it'll be newer, there'll be less issues. So he's sick of the problems on the Dodge and he's going, man, I don't want to deal with any more issues. If we get an expensive car, there'll be less issues. Yeah. Has he been on board with you? His biggest fear is that at 170,000, supposedly, miles, basically is like the time tick.

Okay, that's 30,000 miles away. Yeah. So can you not save up for a year or two and a sinking fund and get out of this debt and then get a car with cash? I think we could if we really stuck our nose to the grindstone and did that. But he's not on board. Is he on board with the baby steps in general? Because it sounds like there's some disagreement here. Oh, yeah.

He's totally on board with it. We're actually hosting a Financial Peace University class starting next week. Wow. Well, okay, so Jennifer... I think once this class starts, he'll realize. Hopefully.

But here's what I think you've got to do. Because he's on board, can I suggest that you cast a little vision? Mm-hmm. So when somebody casts vision, right, their vision casting, by definition, is about showing a better future, right? This is the future we're headed to. Yeah. And I think he's on board with the baby steps, but the vision he's having a hard time with is we've got to have a more dependable car.

And he's starting to go, oh, boy, we've got a law of diminishing returns here, so I'm going to try to change up the baby steps and do it my way. What you've got to do is instead of debating him on that, I think you've got to cast a vision to say, hey, before this thing hits the 170,000 mile, don't try to change the terms with him. Stay in his narrative and go, here's a plan on paper with my new job because I'm going to be able to go back full time. With that increased income, we can replace this car, like George is saying, while still moving forward on the baby steps. He's on board with that.

I just think you've got to show him literally how you get there. That would be my approach because then there's no disagreement. There's no trying to knock his logic down. It's just like, okay, I get it. We have 30,000 miles before you think, man, we've hit the law of diminishing returns on this car. Here's how we cash flow

and replace this car and don't go backwards. I think that's the vision. Okay. I can do that. I know you can. I can hear you got a little juice. You're like, oh, that's the vision. Okay, I can do that. I know you can. I can hear you got a little juice, don't you? You're like, oh, that's a different ballgame. And so I think that's what you do. Yeah, that's a great tip.

All right, now listen. You got to put a little sugar and spice on that, okay? Once you show him the plan, then you got to go, come on, baby, please, please, maybe make his favorite dessert. Please do this for me. I'm locked arms with you. My income's going up. We can do this.

Mm-hmm. And we can if we just stick our nose to the grindstone. All right. I love it. All we got to do here is make that sinking fun happen because we know the car's not going to be an emergency when it goes out. We know it's on its way out in a few years, but not tomorrow. So start saving up on the side for this. You don't have to stop the debt-free journey. Once you get some income coming in,

you can get rid of this debt in a year with your income. If you're living on half of what you make, you can do this thing. That's 42K, the credit card, the medical debt, the student loan. It's not going to be in your life a year from now. And then you can start dreaming about that $20,000 car and save up and pay cash for it. But especially if you're going to lead Financial Peace University, for the love, do not get a car payment while you're leading Financial Peace University. That feels icky, Ken. I don't like that one bit. Yeah, it's definitely a conflict. Conflict of interest.

You know what's funny, though, George? It's like just because you level up $10,000 or $15,000 doesn't mean that cars are going to have problems. Oh, yeah. Plenty of $20,000 cars with $20,000 type repairs here. It gets very expensive very quickly. That puts this hour of The Ramsey Show in the books. Our thanks to producer Ben Hill, associate producer and phone screener Kelly Daniel, my colleague Ken Coleman, and you, America, for listening in.

This has been another hour of The Ramsey Show. Hey, it's Kelly, associate producer and phone screener for The Ramsey Show. If you would like to do your debt-free scream live on the show, make sure you visit theramseyshow.com and register. We would love for you to come to Nashville and tell Dave your story.