The Ramsey Show - App - Sell Home or Keep It for Rental Income? (Hour 3)

Episode Date: October 19, 2020

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. My co-host today here on the air, Chris Hogan. Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author a couple times over. We're here to talk to you about your life and your money. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

That's 888-825-5225. Dallas is on the line in Dallas, Texas. Hi, Dallas. How are you? Hey, Dave. How's it going? Great, man. How can Chris and I help?

Well, I'm going to try to be as direct as possible, but it's kind of a tricky situation. Two months ago, me and my wife were planning on buying a house. We put in our 60-day notice at our apartment that we have to give in to move. Well, during the meantime, I've started a new job where I've more than doubled what I was making. But the way that I'm paid, not all of my money is taxed. A good majority of it is per diem. And I can't use it to purchase a house. So now we're looking at a situation where we can either jump back into a lease or possibly purchase a travel trailer.

With the lease, I have the likelihood of moving anywhere in the state of Texas, so we're kind of scared of getting in a lease and then being forced to break that. Okay, so part of the new job is they're going to move you around. It's not a guarantee, but there is a likelihood of it. Well, I mean, what's the likelihood? There's always a likelihood, 5% or 50%. I'd say between 40 to 50 percent maybe okay and you would all be in the state of texas yes i'll be uh the majority of the workers in dfw but i could be moved to waco uh or houston or likely in the major area.

And so the two options, Dallas, you're thinking of are either renting or getting a mobile home or a trailer? Yes. I'd love to buy, but I'd hate to be forced to sell again. Okay. And a travel trailer is just kind of iffy as well with the depreciation and all that. Yeah. I think you rent. But most apartment complexes allow a job transfer clause in a lease it's not unusual to have that and you just have

to provide proof that your job has moved you and then you give a reasonable notice to break the lease in other words you can sign a one-year lease with a with a transfer clause in it and as long as your employer will give you a letter stating that you are transferred to abilene then you move to abilene they let you out of the lease and it's usually a usually a 30 day notice or something like that but you usually have 30 days notice so not all of them will do that but but it's not unusual to request that right so um this may be us being uh picky here but we've been in a problem for two years we We're originally from Oklahoma and grew up on a ranch. And we'd like to get into a house, and I was just curious if you knew if a rent house would typically allow that transfer clause. Well, more rent houses are individual landlords.

And so if everything else looked good with you and you said there's a 50-50 chance they're going to move me and I was the landlord, I own a bunch of real estate, I would add that into the lease if you needed me to. But that's more of just a negotiation point. It's not a standardized thing. Apartments are much more standardized because a lot of them are corporate run, managed, and so forth. But most single families, you know, sometimes they have a property manager involved and you might have trouble getting past that. But I mean, I think you can get the, I think you can get a landlord to do it. Don't you? I think so too, Dallas. And here's the thing, I get it. You're raised on a farm. You want space. You don't want to be in an apartment.

This is a season you're working through, you know, the next year or two years or whatever that is, you'll be able to get some space, but you want to work your way there. So keep working your way through the baby steps. But like Dave said, communicate with the property manager, let them know up front so you can make sure that that clause is added in there just so you have less headache when it comes time to move. Absolutely.

I think you can do that. I think you can set yourself up. What'd you call that again? A transfer clause. Just a transfer. I mean, if you're transferred, then you have under that unique thing, situation, you can break the lease. It's not just, I don't want to live here anymore. And it's not like, oh, yeah, my employer.

No, you have to get a letter from them. Proof. Yeah, you need to prove that that's what's going on. Thor is with us in Des Moines, Iowa. Hi, Thor. How are you? I'm good. How are you, Dave and Chris?

Better than we deserve. What's up, man? So I'm a senior in mechanical engineering here in school in Iowa, and I'm graduating soon. I'm just trying to figure out what I should do. I have a job offer, but it's in a location that I really don't think I want to be at long term. I'm still interviewing with a couple companies that are in locations that I would more prefer, but I don't have anything yet. And then the company that gave me the offer, they need to know soon, so I'm not sure.

With all the COVID stuff, I just would hate to turn down an offer if I don't have another one. Why don't you want to live there? I guess I just always imagine myself kind of moving back home after college. Where's home? Illinois. Okay. And the offer was where? It's in Iowa, like North Iowa. Okay. All right. And so is there anything that says you have to stay there the rest of your life? No, not at all. Okay. Just nervous that I'll get tied down or something. Not that that's a bad thing, but...

Why would you be tied down? No, that's odd. Who's going to tie you down? If you hate it in two years, look for a job and leave. Right. And you will have gained experience thor to help you be able to find that next job you won't be trapped there buddy they don't do that in our states like they don't they can't tie you down lord well california they do but otherwise

they will let you leave i've lived in a couple of places i'm not going back yeah but again i hear the nervousness uh but here's why you're nervous you think this is forever and it doesn't have to be forever that's our point yeah now that doesn't mean you need to take the job if you've got an offer near home or you think you're going to get one um you know you're fine but if you want to go on it you know you could just look at it as an adventure and say i'm going to iowa that's my adventure and i'm going to be there at least two years i'm going to stick it out. And after that, if I hate it, I'll start looking for a place. Yep. And Thor, you can travel back because you have money to go visit your family. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's not, you

don't have to take it, dude, but you're, you're acting like you somehow have to stay there the rest of your life. And very few people do. Nope. Very few people, especially if you don't want to be there. Now, if you're doing something where you know that you have to stay for a long period of time to accomplish something and you don't want to live there, then don't do that. But I don't think that's the case. You're a college student coming out of college going into an engineering degree. I mean, the opposite of that or another example of that was I've been told, especially early when we started this radio show, years ago. The show was getting big. We were getting ratings, and they said, well, you'll never be able to be a national phenomenon out of Nashville.

You'll have to go to L.A. or to New York. And I said, well, I won't be a national phenomenon then because I ain't going to L.A. or New York. I don't mind visiting you people in those places, and I like some of you that live there, but the chances of me living there long-term, raising my family there, is zero. I'm a Tennessean. I was born and bred in Tennessee.

I love Tennessee. I'm going to live in Tennessee. And if that means that we don't have a big radio career, then we just won't. You proved them wrong. Well, it worked out. It did work out. But it might not have. It's hard to do show business, you know, from a place that doesn't have a show.

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retirement you have no idea how to start investing investing is intimidating to most people most people are like i don't know how to do this it scares the crap out of me i'm afraid i'm gonna mess up it's a lot of money. Where do I start? It's okay to have questions. You've never done it before. You should not be an expert at something you've never done before. That would be just weird.

Of course you need someone to guide you. Of course you need to work through the process with it. It can work out. It'll be fine. So listen, the trick to work, the trick is to work with a financial professional, someone like a SmartVestor Pro that has the heart of a teacher that will teach you. Then you'll know. And they use like real words, like plain English.

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So go to DaveRamsey.com and click on ELP, and you can bring down or click on SmartVestor and bring down a list of the SmartVestor pros in your area. Or you can text INVEST to 33789. That's INVEST to 33789. And you can actually start building wealth today. Pam is with us in Dallas. Hi, Pam. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi. Thank you, Dave. It's good to be here. My question for you, my husband and I are currently building a home, and I work for a home builder, so we're building a home in one of their new communities. Wonderful. We currently own a home in Grapevine, Texas, paid 100%, and so we're

totally debt-free on our home. We are kind of going back and forth about, do we sell this property and put a very large down payment on our new home, or do we use this as rental property? Now, the new home, we were looking at putting probably about $250,000 down off the sale of the property. Or if we use it as rental property property we can supplement the payment by about fifteen hundred dollars a month net off of our rental property or you could do both we are we could well you wouldn't have the rental property you're saying the room might turn the house into a rental i see yes sir no longer our primary residence it'd be rental now we talked to our mortgage broker and because there's no precedence of rental income we couldn't use that as additional income for our mortgage loan.

But they said, you know, by all means, you can do it if you want to. But which is going to be more advantageous for us? My calculations, if we use the $250,000 for a down payment, we could probably pay off the balance of our new house in about seven years. If we make a large down payment and then make additional payments, if we use it as rental income, our base payment would be much larger because we would make a smaller down payment. So it would take, my estimate is probably about 20 years to pay off that new property. So just kind of debating which is going to be better for us. Keep the asset of what we have as a primary residence now and use rental income, or pay off this new home.

Okay. Chris? Well, I'm going to tell you, Pam, as I sit and I listen to you walk through the scenario, first and foremost, I say congratulations on plugging in and knowing the numbers, right? Like you are very aware and you can tell you've thought on this. I love the idea of having rental property and especially if it's paid for. But the reality is this. You guys were moving forward for yourselves personally. And so with that mindset, I'm going to sell that home.

And then I'm going to take that money and use that as a massive down payment on this other home and then be very intentional and focused, as you said yourself, on paying that thing off. And then you have your home free and clear. You can redirect that mortgage payment to investing and saving for your future. Yeah, unless I miss my guess. Go ahead. My calculations, the $250,000 that we could put down on that new home, what we would net out for if we rented the property, it would take us 16 1⁄2 years to make that $250 back in what we could use in rental property. The house is already 42 years old.

Are we realistically still going to get that kind of rental income? Did you project increases in the rental income or just flatlined it? I just flatlined. And did you project expenses out of the rental income? I took out taxes, management fees, home warranties. Now, the one thing I didn't take out is every time we have a revolving renter, we're going to have to come in and paint and fix things. And every time the heat and air goes out and every time the roof leaks.

So your calculations are worse leaks. And, yeah. Yeah. So your calculations are worse than you thought, different. Yeah. Because your net rental, you applied more of a gross number or you applied, you know, a medium number. But the real net number is not going to be as big as you thought, which makes it go longer. It's a 42-year-old house.

It's going to age out poorly, number two. And then number three, you also did not project during your seven-year-old house it's going to age out poorly uh number two and then number three uh you also did not project during your seven-year payoff of your other with you selling the rental you did not project any increases in income did you no i did not and you will have increases in income during the seven years yeah so yeah so you did a good job you know your numbers but you left a couple variables out of it which is going to make the disparity between the two numbers greater and so um more for more that more on the side of what chris is saying is sell the rental i love rentals as you know you listen to me i've got real estate but i want you to own it and i really would not borrow on your new home to buy a rental and

effectively that's what you're doing here okay from a balance sheet perspective so i would i would sell the rental i would pay off the house you're going to pay Hmm. Okay. From a balance sheet perspective. No, that's true. So I would sell the rental. I would pay off the house. You're going to pay it off in about five years. I would save up and pay cash for a rental, probably a property that's a little newer than the one you're currently in, and maybe not, but probably. And I'm going to pay cash for something that I want to buy as a rental, not that it became

a rental by default because i happen to live in it and uh you you buy differently when you're buying to rent i have one property in my entire portfolio that i lived in at one time or another one and um and it's a good rental you know and i would buy it again if i got a great deal on it i bought a house three doors down that I got a great deal on, but it would have to be a great deal because it's not really a rental neighborhood, you know. But by default, you become a landlord is what it is, and when you do that, sometimes you make different decisions. But, Pam, you're on the right track.

Chris is right. You're to be commended. You actually did crunch a number. You weren't doing this. You weren't pulling this out of your ear, so you you really had it dialed in a couple variables there that you twist makes the disparity even greater and really does slam the door shut on the fact you need to sell this property and make your down payment dave a lot of people fall into this trap where you know they think they're their primary residence because they're buying another one. I think it sounds like fun and sophisticated to hold on to that property,

but I don't think they understand the risk. You get a renter, and if they're not paying you, and you still got a mortgage on their property, you're liable for that payment. Yeah, the renter's going to pay it off for me. In her case, her property's paid for. Right. But you're right. The difference, you know, well, I can rent it for $1,500.

How much is your mortgage? $1,000. Well, you're going to break even. Right. Taxes and insurance. That's $500 a month spread with vacancy. Right. With legal fees, with heat and air, leak and roof.

You know, you're going to eat $6,000 a year pretty easy on a $1,500 rental. Yeah. And so you're going to break even so you really don't have anything here to jump up and down be happy about you thought you had a five hundred dollar a month spread nope you really don't it's it's going to be gone by the time the stuff happens in her case she's well on her way to that but but very good good good as chris said good job on knowing your numbers and having thought it through and you're applying the right ideas to the critical thinking skills to decide, to make the decision to decide how we're going to play this through and so on.

So really, really good question. Real estate's a lot of fun. It is not a game for broke people. It'll make you broker. That's why they call them brokers. Because you have to have some margin. it'll make you broker. That's why they call them brokers. Because you have to have some margin. You have to have some cash.

You have to have some liquidity. You have to have some wiggle room. Because the stinking stuff will knock you out otherwise. Long term, you can make a boatload on real estate. But the short term, it will grab your wallet and squeeze it. I mean, it is a cash eater. And people don't talk about that. No, they don't.

The dirty little secrets of real estate. But there's nothing wrong with real estate, but you just got to treat it, you know, it has to have tons of margin by being paid for. Again, in her case, she does have that. She did it, yeah. Good question. This is The Dave Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage, Greg and April are with us. Hey, guys, how are you? Nervous. Good, Dave. How are you?

How are you? You don't need to be nervous. We've never lost a patient. Okay, good. You'll be all right. Good to have you guys. Where do you live? Quincy, Illinois. Cool. Welcome to Nashville and all the way down here to do a debt-free screen.

How much have you paid off? $104,000. All right. How long did this take? About 54 months. Good for you. And your range of income during that time? We started at about $100,000 up to $130,000.

Good for you. What do you guys do for a living? I'm a production manager for a local factory here in town that builds elevators. And I'm an accountant. Okay. Very cool. And what kind of accountant. Okay, very cool. And what kind of debt was the $104,000? Everything.

We had my student loans. We had, when we started, two car payments. We had some medical debt, furniture, credit cards, of course. You name it. You name it, we had it. Okay, you were kind of normal. Yeah. How long have you guys been married? 13 years. Have you ever been debt-free while you're married no never wow so

you've been living the american dream if that's what you call it who's the spender out of the two of you i guess it depends on what it is i mean we're we're i like to spend money, but I also have learned to adapt to what we need to adapt to. Yeah, I hear you. We're both kind of nerds in a way, which is weird. We don't really have one free spirit and one whatnot. We're both kind of nerds. You're allowed. That's okay.

That's good. So what happened 54 months ago that started you on this journey? This is quite a journey. Yeah, it's been a long and tough but good journey. I was actually kind of was aware of who you were and everything, you know, about four years ago, four and a half years ago. And I had a guy that I work with who lent me the Total Money Makeover book. And we kind of read it, and I brought it home, and I talked to her about it some, and she got reading it, and it kind of went on from there.

Okay. And honestly, at that point, too, it was whenever we had just hit making $100,000, and we were living paycheck to paycheck and nothing to show for it. Yeah, like we make $100,000, we got no money. Yeah, pretty much, yeah. We had no money in our savings, you know, very little in the retirement because I had made major mistakes at taking money out of it and retiring it before I learned about you. Yeah.

Well, you were just doing everything normal. Yep. But you got a hold of the book, and both of you read it, and you said, let's give this a run. Yep. So what was the first big thing you did? I mean, we always kind of tracked our expenses, like, weekly on a budget because he calls me, like, the queen of spreadsheets. Yeah. I mean, we always kind of tracked our expenses like weekly on a budget because he calls me like the queen of spreadsheets. Yeah. I mean, we always tracked everything.

We always actually did everything together and paid our bills together. So it wasn't really hard to get us on the same page. On the same page, yeah. It was just for us, the biggest thing that we had to tackle and that really I think was one of the keys was the envelope system. And trying to work those kinks out and figure out how much money we need each month to get by on. That made you really get start paying attention. Yeah. Yeah. Doesn't it change the game? I mean, because you put that money in an envelope and when it's gone, it's done. There's no second guessing this, right? And we even took it a step farther, like in our checking account, like how we decided to do it was we like, of course, pulled our envelope money out in cash,

but like every week we would balance the checkbook and we leave like ten dollars or less in our checkbook and people think we're crazy but that keeps us from swiping it controlled our spending ah so i mean we just balanced every week and pulled out what we needed for you know envelope and paid the rest of that and some weeks we'd have two dollars left it was so funny i went by my bank uh years ago when i was coaching people and i would always advise the envelopes and i would have people break it down so people would roll up to the bank with a sticky note of exactly what i do that now and so the tellers started to know oh these are ramsey people these are ramsey folks i still do that now to this day and uh like you

said now they they when they see me walk in they know where's your slip where's your piece of paper that's so you push through 54 months how did you do that that's a long slog yeah it was it was hard i mean it probably could put it could have been quicker but we sent our kids to catholic school too so we had to cash flow that each year we also cash flow braces at some point during that he's been through a surgery or two. So, you know, but you just learn to cashflow. But for us, it was just, yeah, just struggling and just realizing that if you make a mistake, you can't just give up. You've got to get back on and you've got to keep trying and you've got to, you know, okay, we'd had a bad week or we had a bad month or maybe even sometimes it was two

months that we, you know, we get right back on, but it was a struggle. He's got a story for you he'd like to share. Yeah. Oh, it's probably been a year ago or so, and I had an old Ford F-150. It rusted real bad, started rusting. And little by little, it was nickel-diming me to death, and it was real hard for me. That was probably one of my hardest things was just to keep saying no. I mean, there was many conversations we had, little disagreements. I need a new truck.

I need a new truck. And, you know, she would kind of talk me back down off the cliff, as you say. But it got to a point where I literally lost the reverse in my truck. And you talk about a pain is when to remind yourself every time that you need to park in a place. Where you can pull through. Where you can pull through. And there was a lot of arguments by myself in the parking lot that hopefully not a lot of people heard. Probably a lot of pictures taken of me sitting there trying to put my truck in neutral and shove it out backwards.

How many months did you drive it with no reverse? About two and a half, three months. Okay. So where is it now? It's gone. It's gone. It's gone. This is one of the ways we celebrated that freedom was we got rid of the no reverse, rusted through pickup truck.

Well, and it also would turn its own radio on at night in the driveway. So many mornings he had to jump start it to even get to work. It was possessed. This thing was haunted, yeah. You were like Fred Flintstone and Christine. That crazy car all in one. And like I said, I will say, one little tidbit to that is

that God does work in mysterious ways because I had my parents who, I think they saw my frustrations and how hard we worked. And they reached out to help me get a new truck quicker than we probably would have got it as a gift. Wow. So, you know, I want to say I congratulate them for that. Yeah, that's very nice.

They know how hard we worked. And, you know, they – You know, everybody likes to help somebody that's on a good path. Yes. Yeah, everybody wants to help somebody. I mean, you were already well down the path. They wanted to help. That makes sense. I love it. That's a good gift. Yes. Well done. And another thing that was hard is I took on a second job. I worked for TurboTax remote from home in the

basement. And so I would come home from my eight to five job and I would grab a bite to eat. And I was downstairs and I did that for three tax seasons. So he was running kids everywhere while I did that. And then so that was in the winter months January through April and then he started a lawn mowing business with our son and they still do that to this day for extra income too so in the summertime they're gone. So now that you've done it you paid off $104,000 what do you tell people the secret to getting out of debt is? Communication, budgeting, the envelope system for us helped a lot. The envelope system was a big thing for us.

And also understanding that we're not perfect. Like you said, if you get knocked down, you just have to get right back up. Don't give up. It's hard. It's not easy. But it's rewarding at the end. And it has taught us a lot in four years. Was it worth it driving that old truck to get here now that you're here?

Yes. Yeah, it was. It is. There was times I wondered, but I can say yes, it was. Yeah. You drive like no one else later, you get to drive like no one else. And we're hoping to do other things like no one else. Right now, our house has no dryer.

Our dryer gave out about three weeks before paying off our debt, and we're like, nope, we can't buy anything. We've got to keep chugging along. Now you've got a little wiggle room in the old budget nope, we can't buy anything. We got to keep chugging along. So we've got a lot of – Now you've got a little wiggle room in the old budget so we can get a dryer. Yep. Well done, you guys. Congratulations.

You too. You brought the kiddos with you, right? Yep. Well, we're proud of you. You're heroes. Well done. You took control of your life. Their names and ages?

This is Logan. He's 12, and this is Allison. She's 9. Love it. Well done, you guys. Woo-hoo! All right, Logan and Allison, April and Greg from Quincy, Illinois. $104,000 paid off in 54 months, making $100,000 to $130,000.

Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! Woo! That's how it's done right there. Let me tell you what. Most people can't stick with some 54 days. No.

No. 54 months. 54 months. Four years and some change. Three months of driving a truck that wouldn't go in reverse. I love that part. I do, too, because that's commitment. That's focus.

And it isn't going to be forever. It's just a little while. You just got to hang on and stay clear and push forward. Get the right people around you that believe in you. I'm trying to tell you ain't nothing you can't do. Amen. Amen. Well done you guys. You're heroes. Proud of you. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Our scripture of the day, 2 Peter 1.21

For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit. Shonda Rhimes says you can waste your lives drawing lines, or you can live your life crossing them. I like that one. I do. Andrew's in Boise, Idaho. Hey, Andrew.

Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave and Chris. I'm so excited to talk to you. How are you guys doing today? Better than I deserve. How can we help? Good. So my question for you today is, do I need to switch advisors? And what do you think of the national financial advisors chains?

I have my financial advisors through Edward Jones. I wasn't sure if there's a difference between SmartVestor Pros or what you recommend with those people. How old are you? 18. Okay. There's nothing wrong with that. Just a good question. That's a great question.

And so you're already investing. Well done. Well done. Yeah. Well, Andrew, what I've learned over the years of being in the financial world is that about 85 percent of the people in the financial world know how to sell, but not necessarily what they're selling, and they're not very good teachers. They're good salespeople, and what I've learned is that we've, I mean, Chris has worked a lot with the NFL, I have,

and with other professional athletes. We've worked with music artists and these people. And the people that you read these stories about, these athletes that lose all their money. You've read those. You've heard those, I'm sure. And we've also met with lots of regular folks who have the same exact experience but with less zeros. Right. lots of regular folks who had the same exact experience but with less zeros right and uh they they always talk about their guy told them to do something wrong and they did it and so that taught

me years ago to not have a guy that's telling you what to do. Instead, have a guy or a gal that is a teacher, and you're the guy. I know in your case you're the guy because you're 18 years old and you're asking this question, which means you're a stud. Absolutely. Okay? So what your person is, whether they're a SmartVest or Pro, whether they're at Edward Jones, wherever, their job is not to drop their glasses down on the end of their nose and talk down to you like

you're an idiot and you're supposed to do whatever they say. And a whole bunch of them do, sir. Okay. If they do that, you need to practice two words, say you're fired, right? And so what you're looking for is not a salesperson. You're not looking for someone who's going to take your life over and do it for you. You're looking for someone to teach you. And when you understand how the investment works, you make the decision. And if you've got that, I don't care if they're a SmartVestor Pro or not. The only way someone gets to be a smart investor pro is if they have that trait and if they're going to give you advice similar to what we teach here on the air.

And so if I am bent on being debt-free and my financial advisor is always telling me I need to borrow on my house and invest with him, then I need a new financial advisor because I'd have one that my value system is not running, is not correlated with. That's right. Absolutely. And so, Andrew, when you hear Dave and I talk about using a SmartVestor Pro, and we're talking about it with confidence, these have all been vetted. It's not endorsing the company that they're with.

It's endorsing them as an individual. So they're agreeing to guide you and teach you as we talk about. That's why we have supreme confidence. Whether you're dealing with someone in Boise, Ohio, or all the way to New York City, we know how they're going to treat you. And that's why we are willing to endorse them. But are there other financial advisors other than SmartVestor Pros that could have the heart of a teacher, that could align their values with what you believe about debt and about investing and teach you and you become prosperous oh absolutely i'm sure there is i'm sure there isn't edward jones i mean there's

nothing edward jones is not an evil company no there's nothing wrong with that but the the point is you just um you know you've got to know that there's some things you don't do and if they bring up one it puts a certain uh i don't know, you smell it. You shut it down. I don't like the smell of this. This guy's pitching me whole life. That's right. And you say, no, no, no, we're not doing that.

And by the way, you just lost, I'm not going to argue. I remember I had a CPA one time, Andrew, when I was, I guess I was about 35, and this business was brand new, and there was just a few of us. And he came in to talk about taking over and doing our taxes. And I had known the guy from church. I'd known him forever. And he said, well, you know I don't agree with everything that you teach. And I said, what about?

And he said, about debt. And he said, you know, you can take the tax deductions and that. And he said, but, you know, we don't have to agree on that for me to be your CPA. And I said, oh, yeah, well, you kind of do. Yeah. Yes, sir. Because if you're not right about that, how do I know if you're right about the other stuff? We can still be friends.

We're friends. You're just not my CPA. We don't have to agree about money stuff for me to be your CPA. What a dumb butt comment. Well, I remember years when we were down talking with the Titans and doing stuff with these guys. Some of the questions you guys, I mean, it was mind-boggling. But, Dave, one of the things you said was empowering those guys that you're an investment professional, you're a tax person, you're an insurance person.

They work for you as an individual. And so what you have to do is make sure you're communicating your goals, but at the same time, toeing the line on what you're going to do. Too many times people will just take someone's advice without looking at it and vetting it and making sure it matches up with your goals. And so having that employee mindset as you're working with these individuals is so vital. You know, it's really tough to babysit the 10 year old little boy because he always says why yeah why yep why why why why wants to know why

about everything why why why and you know what i do that with lawyers i do that with doctors i do that with tax people i do that with investment people why why you you don't cut me open why why what do you think that's you know the only major surgery something that happens to someone or it happens to me minor surgeries happen to somebody else you know so why why no i like that why and you know a lot of these people in quote professionals don't like being questioned. The architect doesn't like you saying why. I'm the architect. I don't give a crap you work for me.

That's right. My freaking house. I'm the one going to be living there if you screw it up. Why? I'm the one paying for it. Why? Yeah. And you just wear them out, man.

And because a lot of times, you know, you get into it and you find out that the only reason they believe something is because everybody else believes it. They don't even have a reason themselves for believing it. And then they're about to lead you off into a dadgum mess. Why? Why? That's good. We're going to try this extreme treatment. Why?

What else can we do? Why? You know, there's another way to do this. Why? And, you know, it blows because a lot of, I don't know, there's like this class that they go to called arrogance. It's one of the classes. Like, I'm supposed to, you're supposed to do what I say. I'm the doctor.

And I'm like, just because you're the doctor, that means I'm not going to do what you say. You're practicing medicine. I'm still, I mean, all these years, you're still practicing. Tell me you got it figured out. You know, I'm not practicing anymore. I'm actually accomplished at mine. I don't have to say I'm practicing. I like that.

So you're still practicing. Why? Why? Go ahead and question authority. And some of you people need to question the authority of your tyrannical health departments and your tyrannical governors and mayors. Why? I no longer believe you. You can't do math.

Foochie math is a whole new, that's like, that's an oxymoron. You can't do math. No. If you can't do math, you can't, to convince me on the statistical probability of my death, then you don't get a say in it anymore. Why? I'm the guy that always asks why. Now, sometimes it leads you

to conspiracy theory but still why you know why why is this going on why is you know why why you know why is california completely shut down why still i ask these questions why you know and it's it people in authority don't like you to ask that. No. They just want you to do what they say. Just do what they say. But there's, you know, there's a problem. There's people like me out here.

We're Americans. Why? Well, we know how to think. And we ain't scared of that. Andrew, that's what this whole thing comes back to, dude, is you are responsible for your future. Not Edward Jones and not the SmartVestor Pro. And so ask why. Get a teacher.

Good question, sir. I'm proud of you. Chris, thanks for hanging out. Thank you for having me, sir. James Childs is our producer, our assistant producer, and phone screener is Kelly Daniel. I am Dave Ramsey, your host. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace,

and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Have a friend or family member that needs a daily dose of Ramsey advice in their life? Let them know about the Ramsey Call of the Day podcast. It's a quick hit of advice about life and money in under 10 minutes. Check out the Ramsey Call of the Day podcast wherever you listen to podcasts.