The Ramsey Show - App - Should I Apply for Student Loan Forgiveness? (Hour 2)

Episode Date: August 26, 2022

George Kamel & Rachel Cruze discuss: Digging out of debt after falling for a money trend #vanlife, How to get manually underwritten for a mortgage, Knowing how much house to buy, Avoiding continually dipping into the emergency fund, Whether or not to apply for student loan forgiveness, Recommended leadership books.    Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6

Девочка-пай From Ramsey Network, this is The Ramsey Show, where we help you get control of your money, get ahead in your career, and get on the path to living well. I'm George Campbell, your host, joined today by Ramsey personality, Rachel Cruz. And we are so excited to take your call today. So give us 1-888-825-5225 is the number to call. That's 1-888-825-5225. Rachel is, she's sipping on an Americano from the Ramsey Cafe. She's eating a chocolate chip cookie.

We're having a good time on this Friday. I'm enjoying my Friday. She's really living it up. I am not a cop. I'm over here pulling all the weight, Rachel. Can you pick up some slack? Just know, i am not a cop i'm over here pulling all the weight rachel can you pick up some slack just no i am not a coffee snob i'm like give me a keurig coffee just like i'm good i am good i thought you had standards give me a waffle house black coffee plant like anything i'm just i'm just no cream no sugar just black coffee anyways i have been our cafe they don't

they do great fancy drinks and I always just get a black coffee anywhere I go but the old Americano you can't beat it it's a James Child's

original favorite from our producer it's his favorite he's an Americano guy you like Americanos? you like an Americano? yeah I do yeah

especially iced this is why people tune into the show guys you thought you were coming here for some financial advice some life changing information we just found out our producer James Child's favorite drink that's all This is why people tune into the show, guys. You thought you were coming here for some financial advice, some life-changing information.

We just found out our producer James Child's favorite drink. That's all. Let's go to the phones where we are more useful. Brandon joins us in Jackson, Mississippi. Brandon, welcome to the show. Hey. Hey, how's it going? We're doing great, man.

How can we help? Yeah. So currently in my life right now, I am about to start a new job in IT, making about $40,000 base pay. But the main issue right now is that I do still live with my parents right now at 29, and I fell victim to the trend of van life, if you've ever heard of that. What is it? Van life? Van life, if you've ever heard of that. What is it? Van life? Van life, yeah.

Yeah, where you live in a van and not down by the river, but you travel around the country with it, right? Is that what you're talking about? Yeah, basically. Yeah, you gutted a van and put a whole living situation in it. I thought it was like a whole life insurance company. I wasn't sure. You're literally talking about, I bought a van, I'm going to live in it?

Yes, that was the idea yep and uh boy was that man tell us why that was a bad idea i can tell you quite a few reasons why first of all where are you going to actually stay once you have it figured out and converted but uh and really the biggest problem now is just debt because I was dumb enough to take out a loan with Chrysler Capital. And I used to work retail not too long ago, but I'm still in debt like $30,000. Is that all of your debt? Yes. Okay. No student loans, no credit cards, no other cars?

No. Is this your only vehicle? Well, here's the thing. I do still live with my parents, and they do have a vehicle that barely works, but it is better than nothing as far as commuting to my new job. And we're trying to get that fixed up just as a, you know, just as a stop gap. What's the van worth?

So the van, I bought it at, I would say, $35,000. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I think it was around $40,000. So the van was, you bought for $40,000. What could you sell it for today? I really don't know. And I'm trying to figure out, like, what would be the best course of action. I mean, if I had to do it all over again, I wouldn't have done this at all.

I would never have done this and put myself in debt like this. It's taking forever to pay off my financing and all that. Well, I want you to know we have all done a lot of dumb things with money. You're not the first one, so don't feel too special. And know that this is one of the better, I'm not going to say good types of debt, but better because it's somewhat reversible because we can actually sell this. You can't sell your degree that has student loans attached. So that's what we want you to do your homework on and figure out from Kelly Blue Book,

go to kbb.com, find out the actual value you can get private to sell it. And if it's less than 30, then we need to make up the difference with some cash quickly. How much money do you have in the bank account? Right now it's, so I've been, I've been out of, I did something even more dumb. I left work without actually securing my new job, but yeah, great. Right. Um, so I only have5,000 right now. That's great. I thought you were going to say $5. No. Okay. Brandon, stop beating yourself up, buddy. A1 is to stop beating yourself up and go, listen, we did some dumb things. We're going to clean this mess up. We're never going to do it again. That's the only time when it's done, when you keep doing it over and

over. Yes. Okay. I know you got to look into this because this van is a very unique van. You again that's the only time when it's done when you keep doing it over and over yes okay i know you i know you got to look into this because this van is a very unique van you can like live in it basically so so if you were to like just throw a number out like even low ball it like you think you can get 15 grand for it i think someone will buy it for 15 20 10 i think the biggest problem for me would be to actually find somebody this This is a really niche sort of thing right now. How special is this thing? Well, isn't it a work band? Well, it's not like...

Do you use it as a work band? Yeah, yeah. If you just... What if you took everything out? Right. Did you already convert it? Yeah, that's the thing. And I only have about...

I just have to finish the shower and maybe a bit of plumbing. But other than that... I wouldn't put i wouldn't put any more money in it right i feel like so that would be a bad idea yeah yeah yeah i wouldn't fit i would let someone else finish it out that once someone there's another brandon out there who has a dream to live in the van who who's actually going to go through with this hey on instagram it looks glorious via instagram well while i fall for it. Don't fall for it. I know.

I know. I know. Okay. So let's just pretend. Let's just lowball it. Let's just say 10. I think you can get 20 for this at least. Is this a brand new van?

Yes. 2021. It's a 2021. Started last year. Okay. I know. I just want to give him like worst case. Let's just pretend.

Worst case scenario. Very optimistic. I love it. Let's go 15 grand. Let's just pretend you can sell it for 15 grand. Okay. You're going to still owe 15. You're going to be able to put some money, some of the savings that you have.

So now your debt's down to like 10. You want to keep a thousand bucks. So I guess that's more like 11,000. Yeah. And then Brandon, you're going to work. You're going to work extra. You're going to be working nights. You're going to be working weekends. You're going to work. You're going to work extra. You're going to be working nights. You're going to be working weekends.

You're going to work, work, work. I'm not mad at you still staying at your parents for eight, for just a period of time on a plan, knowing, okay, I can pay all of this off. I'm living on nothing. I'm going to throw the rest of this 15. I'm going to get paid off in three months. And I'm going to be moving out of my parents.

January one, my goal is to rent somewhere. Rent. I don't want you buying anything. Right. To rent somewhere. That parents January 1. My goal is to rent somewhere. Rent. I don't want you buying anything. Right. That's exactly my goal. Yeah, to rent somewhere. And then save up for a big emergency fund, a down payment during all that time. And then you can look ahead at buying.

But, Brynn, you could be in a totally different position in six months. You really could. I feel like you sound down on yourself. You sound hopeless. But when you run numbers, and again, I did worst case scenario for the van. Maybe someone will pay $25,000 for it. And that is a whole other wonderful thing that gets you. Just spice up the description on Craigslist.

To like, yeah, to forward on this. Tiny home on wheels. Yeah. $25,000. Right. Anyways, I think, Brandon, in six months, if you really stay focused, you have a written out plan, drive the crappy car your parents have for a little bit. Yes.

You know, I think that's totally fine if they're willing to do that and assist in that and then save up and buy your own car. I mean, there's some pieces in here that can work, especially since you're able to work nights, you're able to work weekends. You don't have a lot of expenses. You really, in six months, could have a totally different life financially and otherwise. I love it. We want to help you out, Brandon. We're going to send you Financial Peace University for

free that will include every dollar premium. It's going to get you on a budget. I want you to watch all the video lessons to get fired up about getting yourself out of the situation and never, ever going back into debt again. We're cheering you on, man. Hang on the line. Austin will pick up. We'll hook you up with Financial Peace and every dollar. Thanks for the call. This is The Ramsey show I'm Ramsey personality George Campbell joined today by my fellow Ramsey personality Rachel Cruz and we are taking your calls at 888-825-5225. Cameron joins us up next in Poughkeepsie. Cameron, welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hi, thanks for taking my call. How are you guys? Doing well. How can we help today?

I'm a year out of college and have some savings built up beyond my emergency fund. I'm wondering what the best way for me to invest these extra savings are. I was going to take out a mortgage on a small condo, but learned that I will not be eligible for a manual underwriting mortgage for at least a year from now. Okay, and why is that? I don't have the payment history built up yet. Okay. So where are you living now? Are you renting? I'm renting a room in someone's house.

Okay. Are you sure that qualifies towards the payments? For manual underwriting? I'm not sure. Okay. I'm not sure. I would just contact a lender to make sure that that counts and that there's proof,

that you have proof of payments because you're renting a room out of someone's house versus it being kind of a landlord situation. Is that your landlord, the person you're living with? Or is there someone else?

Okay. Yes, they're the landlord. And so what's your question today? What is the wisest way for me to invest my extra savings? How much do you have? I have 10K in an emergency fund and a little over 30K in a savings account. Cool. That's great. Were you going to use the 30K as a down payment for a home? Yes. Okay. Then honestly, Cameron, I wouldn't invest it. I would just keep it where it is parked for, it's just going to be a year until you can get your payment plan or proof of bills for manual underwriting and then just put that 30K and then continue to build it up this year.

I mean, if you're able to put even more cash to put a larger down payment, because you've done great. I mean, you have an emergency fund in place. You may want to beef that up a little bit if you want, depending on, you know, what you think the maintenance and stuff is going to be for something like a condo, but it'll be, it'll be one more year. And I, I don't like to invest it. I don't like to put my money and invest if I know I'm going to use it within four to five years. So I would keep it where it is, keep going along, and then next summer you'll be able to buy something. Yeah, and you're one year out of college.

Are you sure you want to stay in the Poughkeepsie area long term? I'm not totally sure, but my job is here and I really enjoy it. Cool. How much do you make? 98. Awesome. That's great. 98 with no debt means you can put away a lot of money over the course of the next 12 months, right? Yeah, but my take-home pay is surprisingly lower than I would expect. Is that due to investing and taxes and health care?

I guess taxes mostly and some health care. Yeah. Are you getting a tax refund every year? Yes. Okay. I might look at adjusting your withholdings to increase your take-home pay, and that way we don't have the government sitting with our money all year long and then giving it back to us.

That could help. Okay. Yeah, instead of getting a big tax refund, the money will be back where it should be, back in your paycheck. But also I think, too, Cameron, just to say it out loud, there is a reality that hits when you do go into the workforce and you do see taxes, and you're like, oh, that's home okay that that

that's what it looks like it sounds good and then when you when it hits your account you're like wow especially in certain states like new york like new york i mean you guys yeah it's it's a lot so uh that for sure that for sure is a reality but i would keep um going along and making sure that the condo you buy next year is on a 15 year and that your payment's no more than a fourth of your take-home pay. And I think you're doing great, Cameron. You're out of college. There's not a rush. You're good. You're good. Most kids a year out of college do not have $40,000 in the bank and no debt. That's right. So you are way ahead of the game. I would keep stacking up cash, crunch the numbers like Rachel mentioned to see how much down payment do I need in order to have

that mortgage payment be no more than a quarter of my take-home pay on a 15-year fixed doing manual underwriting. And I would get in touch with Churchill and just say, hey, Churchill Mortgage, here's what I'm trying to do. I want to get a house a year from now. I want to make sure that I'm doing this all by the book so that when I go through the manual underwriting process, there's no issues. And that will give you a great game plan of what you need, how much money you need to have down in order to, I want you to have at least 20% down. Could you do that in your area? Yes. Awesome. That puts you in a great spot where you're not paying PMI, private mortgage insurance, and you're going to be very young and be a homeowner and then pay that thing off,

probably by your early 30s at the latest. Awesome. With an income like that. Way to go, man. Thanks so much for the call. All right, Don joins us up next in Flint, Michigan. Don, welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hi, how are you guys doing today? Doing great. How can Rachel and I help? Yeah, so I'm recently looking to buy my first home, but I am very interested in real estate investing and I am very intertwined with it. So right now I'm not sure if I should potentially go smaller so that I can save more and start real estate investing sooner within the next year or two, or if I should kind of go bigger,

set that foundation for like more of a family home so that when my kid, when me and my wife are ready in the next three to five years to be ready for, you know, to have kids and already, we feel like it'll be easier to pay off a bigger home between the two of us before we stop, start popping out kids and things like that. You know, we can work more hours and get it paid off sooner and things of that notion. And a bigger home would only take us about six years to pay off. So it's kind of, and we're only 24, the both of us. So we have- What's your income, household? Okay. So household income, last year we did 150. This year we're on track to do about 230. Wow. Fantastic. Great job.

Okay. So where are you guys living right now? Right now we're renting in Michigan, in Auburn Hills, Michigan. Okay. How much money do you have in the bank? I have about $50,000 in the bank and my wife has about, I believe, $10,000 in the bank. Okay. What's the reason you guys have your finances separate? We actually recently just got married, so we haven't fully integrated fully yet. Also, she's really adamant on taking care of... We weren't supposed to get married until she graduated, paid off her student loans and stuff, but we decided to make the jump sooner, and she's real adamant on being independent and taking care of that because that's something she's always thought of doing

by herself and paying off the student loans yeah yeah things like that you know so how much does she have left yeah 16 000 left and with the whole biden thing going on we're actually expecting maybe to wait to see if he follows through. We don't really trust them, but at the end of the day, we're waiting to see if they follow through or whatnot. Also, she has 0% interest up until, I think, 2023, sometime into 2023. Do you guys have any other kind of debt? Car loans, credit cards? Yes. We also have $4,000 left on her car loan. Okay. And that's it. So we're talking $20,000 of debt total?

Yeah. And you guys have $60,000 in the bank? Just about, yes. Okay. Now, 15 of that, I like, I don't, 15 of that is technically my emergency fund. Okay. So let's call it 35, you have liquid. Yeah. Yeah. I would say. Yeah. I don't need 15 as an emergency fund though. I really only need about 10 at most, to be honest, but. Okay. Well, looking at these numbers, here's what I'll tell you based on the Ramsey plan that has helped tons of people build wealth and invest in real estate is that I want you completely debt-free, fully funded emergency fund, and then we're going to

buy our primary house first, pay that off, then we can get into real estate investing. So I love that you guys want to do this, but it's going to be delayed if you want to do it the smart way. Okay. Now, if you want to get like a duplex or something, that might be hard to find because you're not the first one to have a genius idea of having duplex or having a multifamily home. But you could do that and have the mortgage payment be reasonable, 25%, and then have someone live on the other side. And Don too, I would encourage you guys and encourage her that when y'all are married, y'all are a team. It's not her debt, my debt, and I understand her pride and I can do this. But listen, there's no more I in life anymore. It is a we and you guys together can make progress so much faster. So today, today,

I would pay off the student loans, I'd pay off the car, keep the emergency fund, and then you're gonna have $35,000 for a down payment on a great home. And I would just go for it. You guys work together as a team, you can get there so much faster. If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together. This is The Ramsey Show. We take a whole lot of calls about real estate on the show, and right now you're hearing a lot of talking heads in the news stirring up fear about the real estate market. And if you believe them, you think the housing market is going to crash and it's going to be a repeat of the 2008 housing crisis. But you're not hearing the truth.

And you can't make decisions based on fear. You need the facts. And here they are. In 2008, there was a huge supply of homes but not enough buyer demand. So, home prices dropped. But that's not what's happening in today's market. Right now, there is half as many homes for sale and twice as many buyers. This means home prices aren't going down anytime soon. They're just growing at a slower rate. We're seeing all these over asking inflated prices come back down to reality. So if you're ready to

buy or sell a home, you don't need to wait. You can still win in this market, but you need a pro in your corner. You need to work with an experienced real estate agent. And we've done the hard work of vetting those agents who know your local market and have the transactions to back it up. They've got the receipts. So if you want to connect with a Ramsey trusted agent for free, go to ramseysolutions.com slash agent and check out our endorsed local providers program. Again, that's ramseysolutions.com slash agent. I'm George Campbell joined by Rachel Cruz today. We're taking your calls, 888-825-5225. Veronica joins us up next in Chicago. Veronica, welcome to the show. Thank you so much guys for taking my call.

I just have a question. I'm deaf right now, but I think I feel like I'm stuck. My budget, I have to keep borrowing money from my emergency fund and then putting it back when I get paid. And my next step is to pay off my mortgage or put extra money towards my mortgage, but I can't seem to find the money. So I don't know what I'm doing wrong, guys. I'm looking for your help. Well, thanks for the call, and congrats on becoming debt-free. And so right now you're saying you don't have the margin,

so you keep going back to the emergency fund because you can't pay all of your bills without dipping into it. Well, I'm able to pay a month, but I have to dip into it, and then when I get my last paycheck of the month, I pay it back. Okay, so you're saying when you're going to do your budget, it's not being planned in a way where you can actually pay all the bills at the right times. That's true, yeah. I mean, my gross income for the month is about $4,800.

I'm able to pay all the bills that I have for the month, but I have to borrow from my emergency fund, and then when I get that next check, pay it back. Do you have any buffer? So I feel like I'm doing something wrong. Do you have any buffer in your checking account right now? No. So you're basically running it down to zero and then going, all right, I have to go to the emergency fund. Yes.

What if we started your checking account at $500 and you treat that like zero? That becomes your new baseline and then we start to budget based off of that. Would that help? Okay. Yeah, I think it's a good idea because I'm like, how am I going to stop paying bills if my first paycheck is until like the first week

or the second week of the month sometimes? Yeah, that's where you got to find margin. That's when, and it may take you a month or two just to cut any expenses you can. Veronica, to get a surplus there in your checking account, because yeah, you're going, it's going backwards. I hear what you're saying. And so we want to be going forward and not touching the emergency fund. And so, so yeah, that, I mean,

for me, I would look at my budget and say, okay, I'm going to cut this, this and this, keep that saved, where I'm not spending that out, whether it's cutting subscriptions, you cut your food budget down. Again, this is one or two months. This is to catch you up so that you are a paycheck ahead in your checking account to tactically pay the bills. And then when your other paycheck hits, you can use that for the bills that are, yeah, that's going the right direction. But if you had the margin to pay off the debt,

you should now have that same margin to pay your bills and get ahead and invest and pay off the house early, right? Well, I'm already putting 15% myself and my husband towards our 401k. Okay, good. We're doing that already. We're putting a little bit for a college fund for our daughters. But then it's like a month, there is nothing left to send extra to the mortgage. It's tight beyond that.

Exactly. But I do get a quarterly commission paycheck. So I'm thinking even if I have to wait every quarter and put that extra money towards the mortgage or I don't know. You could use that bonus and get a month ahead in your budget to where you have the next month's budget ready to go in your checking account. That can be very helpful to a lot of people where that becomes an issue. But I think truthfully, this is a budgeting issue. What are you using right now to create your budget and track? I'm using the dollar app and I do get behind sometimes, you know, adding the transactions that I'm using every month, but I'm using the dollar app. And

my daughter started working this weekend. She's 16 years old, but she's already into the budget app and everything. Oh, that's awesome. Well, there's a new feature. Now that you told me that, every dollar, which is what you just mentioned, our team just released a brand new feature called Paycheck Planning, and it solves this very issue. So you can go into every transaction and go, hey, this bill falls on this part of the month, and they do all the math for you to show you where that would fall, how much money you're going to have, when that money would run out, and then you can adjust based on that. So it's a great new feature. Make sure you have that app updated and check that out. I think that will help a ton. Is that with a subscription or I can still get that feature with a basic dollar app? That's a great question. I may be with premium, but what

I'm going to do is gift you one year of premium on the house so that you can check that out and get ahead with this budget. How's that sound? Thank you so much, guys. I really appreciate it. Thank you for all the tips and advice. This has really changed my life, and I'm showing it to everybody I know because it's a life-changing thing for us. We appreciate that. Well, you changed your life, Veronica. Thank you for that. Hang on the line. Austin will pick up. We'll make sure that we send you one year of every dollar premium, and we're going to also send you one year of Financial Peace University to keep you motivated along the way. Thanks so much. Julie joins us up next in Atlanta. Julie, welcome to the show. Thank you. Can you hear me okay? You sound great. What's going on? Okay. So before we started the baby steps and

the Ramsey plan earlier this year, we had several years worth of IRS debt, so we took out a HELOC against our home and threw all of those in there. Our home is worth about $430,000. We still owe $232,800. So this HELOC currently is only $27,600 and some change. However, we also had previously, two years ago, taken out a consolidation loan, which has a balance of 33.8, and that percentage rate is like 7.25, whereas the HELOC, you know, will be locked in at 4%. So we're just not sure if it would be smart to roll that into it at a lower interest rate and just make that loan part of our, you know, part of the HELOC and snowball that way. Or I know that's going against the equity in our home and that's a little more risky.

So I'm just not sure how to do the order of the snowball and whether to just make that part of the HELOC and then pay a truck off first or where to go. What's left on the truck? 94, and that's at 3.49%. It would be paid off in November. You owe $94,000? $94,000. No, no, no.

No, $9,400. Oh, my gosh. I was like, that's the nicest. That's a great truck. That's a great truck. You better be living in that truck for $ 000 quite that okay what's your income household income um our household income is about 140 a year okay um monthly it's 11 6 is what we bring home 11 6 is your take-home pay yes uh-huh and how much of that can we throw at all of this debt

if we really tighten up get get on an every dollar budget? And that's where we've paid off credit cards and we're trying to put at least $1,500 every month towards, of course, our minimum payment on the consolidation loan. So you have more debt, you said? What's on the credit cards? Those were paid off with the consolidation law so we have nothing left on credit cards it's just these three the HELOC the truck and then the consolidation law have you cut up the credit cards oh yes good good good okay yeah well I would just still keep them separate Julie because with the HELOC if you can pay it off if it, if it's half your annual income,

then keeping it separate instead of rolling it into your mortgage and everything, I would. So, I would just put that in the debt snowball versus pushing it. Some HELOCs, we'd say push to maybe step six if it's more than half of your annual income, but you guys, it's not. So, I would keep it in the debt snowball. And part of the reason I would not roll it in is part of what got you into this mess was this idea that if we roll it in, it'll be smart, and we can move this over here, and we're doing some fancy math. But there's only one way to get rid of the debt, and that's to get rid of the debt. And so I'm going to use as much of that 11-6 take-home pay as I can to attack the car, and that's going to be gone real soon with your income. Then we're going to go after that HELOC at 27. Okay.

So put the truck ahead of that other 27 that's in that HELOC. Smallest to largest, regardless of the interest rate, that is what's going to get you debt-free as fast as possible with the most progress and keep you guys motivated along the way. Great job, Julie. You guys got this. Thank you. We believe in you. This is The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined today by Rachel Cruz. This is The Ramsey Show. It's a free call, 888-825-5225. Let's talk about your life and your money. Stephen joins us up next in San Antonio.

Stephen, welcome to the show. Hey, how are you all doing? Doing great. How can we help? Good. So I'll dive right into it. My wife and I are morally opposed to the student loan forgiveness. We feel like we are stealing $10,000 from other people. So even though my wife would benefit by receiving $10,000, do you think it would be unwise if we were to not apply or to opt out of it? The other thing is we feel like this would kind of put like an asterisk by our debt-free screen when that day comes.

So what are your thoughts? I think that's a great take. I've used the analogy that if I train for a marathon for months and I woke up early and I ran in the rain and I ran that marathon, got to the finish line, got my medal. And Rachel Cruz over here gets an Uber to the finish line for the last stretch. And then she gets a medal too. I'm going to be a little bit miffed, but here's the thing. I know I earned it. And Rachel knows that she cheated. It's like in the office, that marathon episode, it's exactly what happened. So to your credit, Steven, I think there's a lot of dignity in just paying it if you want to do that. And that's what you feel morally you're led to do.

But there's also nothing immoral about applying for it and getting it. So that's my stance. Rachel probably disagrees vehemently. No, I don't, even though some people think I do. No, I mean, again, I don't think it's a moral issue, Stephen. Now, values of kind of what you value, you and your wife, and your journey, what's your value about the hard work and knowing that we did this, like all of that, right? I get that. I totally get that.

So if that's a value set that you guys have, then you guys pay it off yourselves. That's great. But I don't think it's immoral if you take it. I don't think it's, you know, it's quote unquote wrong. And I would say too, I wouldn't, and even people listening, I don't think it gives, I don't know, maybe we disagree on this, George. I don't think it gives an asterisk because I feel like we've had people on debt-free scream stage that say, well, you know, my parents gifted us 10 grand through this thing and we used it to pay off the credit cards

and the car and so we got to jump and then we got to pay off the student loans fast. Like whatever the story may be, right? Like that sometimes happens and I don't put an asterisk on their story. I just say, wow, what a gift. What a blessing to your debt-free situation and you got out of debt that much faster. That's great.

Do you know what I'm saying? So I don't want you... It doesn't take away from your achievement and what you guys yeah i don't i don't think it would if if you do apply and you decide to do that but if you guys like again i said this on the show two days ago and people got all mad at me but a girl called and she had the money to pay it off and i said then pay it i think i just paid off because you have the money it's there um so i get that there's a team literally, we were talking about it two days ago and he, they have the money and they're going to write a check on Monday to pay off their student loan. And his wife was like, we are not taking this. We are paying it off now. So again, it's

not a moral, immoral thing. I think it's just a values-based decision that you and your wife, and it sounds like from what you're saying that you're like, I don't feel good taking it. So then I wouldn't. I wouldn't. You started the question that way. I'm morally opposed. So like Dave said on air yesterday, if you've been publicly opposing this thing, yes, it feels hypocritical to then go and take it. But there's nothing wrong with doing it. You're no better than anyone who did take it. But there's nothing wrong with doing that. If that sets you guys up, you're applying it to the baby steps. It's not like you guys are sitting around waiting on a handout. You guys have worked a plan and you're doing this thing. And if you use that money to propel your financial journey, we're sincerely happy for you. So have you guys paid it off

already? No, we haven't paid it off. We have about probably about 42,000 left, 12,000 sitting in excess savings because we just had a baby. And so, so yeah, so this would help us, but yeah. Yeah. I think it's a gut call. If in your gut, you don't feel good about it and you don't, it doesn't feel right, then don't. You guys can, you can work and pay it off for sure. For sure. But if you are so convicted about this, then don't lose sleep over it so that's on the other side but there's nothing wrong with doing that like if he's going to feel convicted because he got the forgiveness and now he's feeling guilty about it and it is opposing his moral values it's not worth it to apply for it oh totally that's what i'm saying yeah for sure

for sure there's nothing wrong with this propelling your financial journey and just seeing it as a gift from from uncle sam that falls on potentially the taxpayers we just don't know yet it's such a hard it's such a hard conversation see as we're like stumbling over the the feelings of all the answers no because i mean again it's a reality that it's out there whether you agree it's a reality or not it's out there now there's all this stuff of like is it going to have to pass through congress and supreme court and how are they paying for this there's a lot well we know how they're yeah well we don't they're saying that could come from the the deficit that apparently oh interesting could be creating this year okay okay okay so anyways we don't truly know what this looks and again it's this weird

juxtaposition of like it's gonna if it's there yeah do you take it and see it to propel your life forward then that's great but if you don't feel good about it and you want to just propel your own life forward that's great so we don't have an answer for you Rachel this feels just like the whole like we dealt with a thousand calls about the vaccine and should I it's just like it goes back to your moral values yeah totally absolutely so thanks for the call, Stephen. It's a great question. It is. I would go with your gut, Stephen. I would go with the value set of your family because that's how we make decisions. So again, it's not a moral issue. It's a values question for you and your wife. And if you're leaning one way, I would take that spirit and that gut and I'd follow that. So that's what I would do. Good question. Thanks

for it. Phil joins us up next in Philadelphia. I think that's apropos. Phil, welcome to the show. Hey, guys. Thank you so much for having me. I've been plugged in to the Ramsey Network since 2021, and in the process of plugging in, I've been able to grow, of course, in my financial life, but in other areas of my life, and I've been really appreciative for that. I'm trying to continue to grow as a leader. I'm in a

position of leadership in my job, and I want to grow as a leader, and I was just curious if you guys have any book recommendations that I could plug into to accomplish that. That's an awesome question, and we probably have too many books, so I guess it's probably best to go by authors, recommendations that I could plug into to accomplish that? That's an awesome question. And we probably have too many books. So I guess it's probably best to go by authors and then we can throw out a few recommendations. That's fair. Yeah. For leadership. I'll let Rachel go first, so I don't want to steal her thunder. Okay. Jim Collins, obviously he's a great one. Anything that he's written. uh yep my my favorite book and i think it's patrick linchioni that wrote it ideal team player it's one that we use hungry humble smart yeah we use that you just stole my thunder i was joking i'm kidding george

no so it's a great especially if you're a leader it talks about the ideal team player and they need to be hungry they need to be humble and they need to be smart and not like intelligent, smart, but people smart, relationally smart. So these three things are so key. So if you're having someone on your team that's struggling, it's just a great filter to use.

And all of us have strengths and that weaknesses, but that's the one tactically feel that I feel like I, I use just in my head that I've learned so much from, but that was Patrick, right? That wrote it. Absolutely. Absolutely. Okay.

So ideal team player, Jim Collins. Now you go. Great friends of ours. Uh, I'm going to go leaders eat last from Simon Sinek. Yeah. We're big Simon Sinek fans and we're big Jim Collins fans and big Pat

Lincione fans. Yes. And of course, Henry cloud. I got to mention boundaries for leaders. Yes. Another great book, uh,

for leadership growth. And on top of that, we have to mention the OG Entree Leadership. Have you read that one, Phil? I have. It's a great one. And the podcast, Entree Leadership Podcast, which our own George Campbell hosts. I do host that, so that feels like a great pitch.

But we do have a bunch of leadership books on our website as well, Phil. So if you want to jump on ramsaysolutions.com in the store, we have a lot of non-Ramsay books that we just, Dave is a huge fan of these books. Our leadership team has read these books. And so we recommend them to our folks and fans. Awesome. Thank you. And yeah, from the Entree Leadership Podcast, I picked up and have read Take the Stairs by Rory. And after listening to your interview with him and yeah, I just, I mean, you know, the scales have dropped from my eyes sort of experience and plugging in all these resources has just been super helpful. So thank you guys very much.

That's awesome. Awesome to hear, man. That's so cool. Part of our passion here at Ramsey. Yeah. It's not just, it's not just the money stuff. It really is the, the whole part and leadership is a big, is a big message that we have here that we, as we run this company right here at Ramsey Solutions,

we're all in it together every day and it's a big part of our life. There's a toxic money culture and there's a toxic leadership culture. And if we can get better leaders, then we'll have better team members who are engaged, who can create more impact in this economy and in this world. So we love that.

Appreciate you listening to this show and Entree Leadership, Phil. Thanks so much. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. My thanks to all of the folks in the booth, the bro booth, as we now call it, because Kelly Daniel is no longer in the booth. She's still here, though.

She's still here. Someone was like, did she leave? She chose a new favorite, Dr. John Deloney. So she's over there producing that show. All right, we'll be back with you. Before you know it, this is The Ramsey Show. Hey, it's Rachel Cruz, co-host on The Ramsey Show. If you want to do your debt-free scream live on the show, visit ramsaysolutions.com slash debt-free scream. We'd

love for you to come to Nashville and tell Dave your story. That's ramsaysolutions.com slash debt-free scream.