The Ramsey Show - App - Should I Borrow Money From Family? (Hour 1)

Episode Date: November 29, 2023

🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I am Ramsey Personality, Rachel Cruz, hosting this hour with my good friend and Ramsey Personality, Jay DeWarsaw. And we're answering your questions, life, money, relationships, career, anything and everything. Give us a call. So first up in Gainesville, Florida, we have Cameron on the line. Hey, Cameron, welcome to the show. Howdy, thank you. So my question is, my parents just sold their house in Texas and they can got a considerable amount of money for it. Um, and they're currently in the process of, um, basically planning for their future. And, uh, I recently also purchased a house in Gainesville, Florida,

which is part investment property. I'm living there at the same time and kind of renting out rooms in addition to it. Um, And my father brought up to me, hey, with all this extra money that we now have, you know, would you like us to pay off your house? And then that way you'll just pay us back instead of paying back the bank. And I've kind of heard before, you know, Dave talk about not good to take money from family members. And I kind of just want to hear y'all's perspective on it,

the pros and the cons here. Yeah, I mean, I think if you look at the pro side sometimes families in the situation they do it with less interest and all this stuff but I think honestly Cameron there's just more cons in this because I think the math side sometimes can play into people and they're like oh well I don't they're not gonna charge me interest or like whatever the deal is that's a better deal than the bank but here's the truth i'm like it's a house number one you're not talking about like we're gonna pay off a five thousand dollar car it's your house and so for now and in the next foreseeable five ten years you're gonna be having christmases and family dinners and you're going to want Cameron to go on a great trip and they may be thinking wow why is he going on a trip he needs to be paying us back

I mean like you know like it starts to like it starts to play into the relationship in a pretty deep way where your parents end up being your bank and again all good intentions like I hear that because I think a lot of parents go into this and their heart in it is so good. Yeah. But the way it just plays out, Cameron, like it just ends up getting messier. Yeah. I'm just thinking about, okay, so if you're in the baby step where you're paying off your

house early, right, you might commit to, hey, we're going to make an extra mortgage payment every month, right? But then something might come up in your house where you go, you know what? We're not going to make a full extra mortgage payment. We're going to do this or that. And you kind of have the freedom to choose what you're going to do. But when your parents are the bank, and if they get used to you paying on a certain schedule, a certain amount, and then you and your wife decide there's another priority right now, we're not going to do as much. Like Rachel said, I just feel like there's this weird feeling of, oh, they stopped paying $6,000 a month and now they're only paying $4,000. I wonder what that's about.

I just feel like there's so much there. And then, and I mean, I'm not saying anything negative, but there are the negative side of things that we have to think about, which is something with your parent's situation changes and suddenly they need more money or something with your situation changes and suddenly you don't have as much money and you can't afford the house anymore for some reason and then they are looking for yeah yeah there's a lot i i wouldn't do it okay because cameron let me let me make one little sorry let me ask you one follow-up real quick because you said something about an investment property this isn't their house is it it's yours no it's not this is my own personal house it's just that it's more than what i currently need and so i have um it was being in gainville near the local college so i have

um you know young adults that live in the additional rooms gotcha gotcha how much just for wondering how much was it that they were going to pay off on your little over a hundred thousand yeah and I'm currently putting an additional about $3,500 per month towards it. And that's actually what my second question was going to be in regards to. I have about $25,000 liquid right now on top of my emergency fund. And I wonder, is it worth it to just throw all of that in on the mortgage right now? Or should I kind of save that and maybe, you know, wait for better opportunities? Look, if you're on baby step six, absolutely the case.

If you're not, you know, in this case, it sounds like you are, you don't have any other debt. I'm sure you're investing 15% of your income. You know, obviously you already have a home. Are you savings for kids college, like that kind of thing. If you know you're you already have a home. Are you savings for kids college? Like that kind of thing. If you know you're checking off all of those boxes, then yeah, the applicable boxes, then yes, I would do that. Yeah. And if you know, you know that there may be a, you know,

you have to replace a car soon or, you know, you use that money for something else. If there's something you want to redo in the house, I don't know. If there's other expenses, you know, are coming, you could leave some of that aside just as a buffer you know savings fund to be able to pull from if you need if you need that extra cash um especially with renters yeah yeah exactly but i would put a big i would put a big chunk of that yeah towards towards the mortgage to get it paid off faster so thanks cameron thanks for the call you know jade i feel like the family dynamic with

loaning money it is and it's one and what's what's always kind of hard for me in this seat i know there's families out there that are like this can work it can work and then there's like the disaster families the disaster families are kind of easy to be like my mom's saying i have to yeah you can paint a picture pretty quickly to be like, yeah, I probably wouldn't do that. I wouldn't do that deal. And then there's some families where it's like, you know, the parents are healthy. It's a good situation, all of it.

But still, even with that, even with that, it just changes the relationship. I would think, and I don't think it would even take anything like truly negative happening. I really think it's just the difference of we were used to this payment and it seems like you've been paying less and then just wanting to ask the question why, even if they don't. Which they have the right to because they're technically the bank in that scenario.

That's right. And even if they never do, like even if even if as the child or like the grown child, you never they never come to you and say, hey, we were wondering what happened. Just them even wondering it has the ability to affect the way they're viewing you like hey we're all going black friday shopping and they see you you know spending money they might in their own head be like interesting she spent a thousand dollars here but she didn't like yes and you just don't want people thinking of you through that lens at all times that's right that's right yeah it's just the human quality of it. And especially the parent to the child relationship.

It just, again, sometimes well-intentioned and all of it, but we've seen it so often, so often go sideways. And people even talk like with friends and everything. And I'm like, it just, just keep it all separate. It's like, I don't want to. I mean, think about how, just as people think about how we are if we've ever heard a friend or family member say oh i'm i'm saving up for this or i'm doing this or i'm doing that and then we after they've said that we view what they're doing with their money so if they say oh we're saving up for you know a down payment on a house then it makes

sense when they say oh we're not going to go out to dinner we're not gonna you you start filtering it through what they said they're going to do. Right, right. And so if that changes, you're like, oh, I thought they said they were saving for a house. Like you just, you can't help it. And I just wouldn't want my own parents doing that. Which honestly, borrowing money in general, not even just for a house or a mortgage, but anytime. For a car, for a personal loan.

I mean, anything. Yeah. So we always say, if you have the money, you can give it as a gift. And again, with the parent-child relationship, there are some situations where it is a gift and the parents can afford it. The child can handle that gift and it's a beautiful thing of changing a legacy

with something, right? Like that 100% can work. Yes. But then also on the other side, there's parents that enable children and it can be dysfunctional too. So it's never about the money, right? It's never about the money.

It's always about the person who's handling it in that specific situation. So always give, never lend. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. It is full shopping week, I feel like, for all of us the last two weeks. And so we actually have the Cyber Monday sale, you guys, going all week long. So all this week, we have extended our Cyber Monday sale, which means there's great gifts, meaningful gifts for your friends and family as low as $7. We have every dollar premium.

You can get a gift card for that for just $49.99. Financial Peace University is $59.99. Things like the Junior's Adventure Storytime Collection, $14.99. The Goal Planner is $44.99. So lots of stuff, lots of things from Jade, myself, Dr. John Deloney, Ken Coleman, Dave Ramsey. Whatever it is about your faith, about your finances, your relationships, your career, you can check that all out at ramsaysolutions.com slash store. Again, our week-long Cyber Monday sale is all week long, which is a beautiful thing. We love a good sale. My go-to gift is that goal planner. I get several of them every year and give them out.

Yes. Oh, it's beautiful. They're so, so great. All right. Up next, we have Marcial from the Woodlands in Texas. Hey, welcome to the show. Hi, guys. Thanks for taking my call. Such an honor being on the phone with you guys. Absolutely. Thanks for calling. How can we help? Okay. So my wife and I have been listening to The Ramsey Show for the last six months. So we already read the books and we are working on the baby steps.

But our income is irregular. She's starting a career as a real estate agent. I'm self-employed. I'm an entrepreneur. I have a business. And we have some money saved up. We just have debt in cars. We have two cars.

In one, we owe $15,000. The other one, we owe $13,000. We didn't read of the $13,000 one, so we're just going to tackle the $15,000 one. My question is, since our income is so irregular, is it smart to set aside, instead of $1,000, just $5,000, and then throw the rest at the cars? And also also I have a small $4,000 student loan. So that's the question. Is it smart to set aside instead of $1,000, $5,000 and then tackle with the rest of the money, the debt? And if we have a good month, then we throw extra on the debt or what do you guys think about that? Yeah. Okay. So with the irregular income, there's two ways that you could think of it. There's two

ways I would think of it. Number one, if you're able to create a budget based on your worst month, like, right, you can look back in your self-employed job and go, okay, like what's, what's my worst month been over the course of the year? And your wife can look back and go, okay, what's my worst month been? And you can start year? And your wife can look back and go, okay, what's my worst month been? And you can start to budget from there. And then you know, okay, like everything else is gravy. If you can make that work, then I would just do the normal $1,000 emergency fund as normal.

Now, if you're like, no, we are really like, this thing is a crazy roller coaster and the months that we don't do well, like nothing's happening. What I would do is there is something to be said for having money that you are carrying over from month to month. I wouldn't view it as an emergency fund so much as this is just living expenses.

Yeah, this is just rollover from a previous month that I keep there almost like a cushion for my budget. And I think that's very normal for people who are on irregular income because there is such variance there. The third part of this, I know I said there's two things, people who are on irregular income because there is such variance there. The third part of this, I know I said there's two things, but there's three things, Rachel. The third part of this is if you are going through such low valleys to such high peaks, or if you feel like there's a lot of low valleys, that might be an indicator that there needs to be another source of regular income coming in. At least until you can make this a little bit more steady. More stable, yep.

Got it, got it. No, that's not the case because in a bad month, we average five to six grand a month. Okay, good. So that's the worst month. Okay, good. Like a really bad month. And if that's the case, and again, your expenses and everything can handle that,

which I'm assuming so, then yes, $1,000 is enough. And that's enough. So, but yeah, we call them, yeah, peaks and valleys kind of with the budget. And I mean, that's how Jade and I both are on commission is the way we're structured. And so some months it's like, oh yeah, it's been a great month. Some months it's like, nope, not much activity happening. And there it is. But that there's enough in there to make sure that our bills are covered. Because we don't want you to get behind on your mortgage or not have money for food. I mean, yeah, that's common sense. We want to be able to have enough there.

But if it is, then yes, Marcelle, I would throw the rest. I would go down to that $1,000 emergency fund. And then I would, for you, you named off a couple of debts, but I would pay off that student loan, the $4,000. I'd get that out of the way first. Now, what did you say about the $13,000 car loan? You kind of glossed over that and said, but we're going to pay on the $15,000. Yeah, that's a card that was a mistake.

It was a desperation purchase because my wife and I, we filed for bankruptcy like a year ago. And then I lost my truck and i had to buy a car and i bought a car to carvan at a 24 interest rate zero down because it was i needed a car i needed to move i didn't have two thousand dollars to pay for that car so we bought that car and we are a little bit upside down in it uh so we're just gonna uh sell it and pay the difference because we got that so yeah that's the plan for dark perfect well that's great yeah that that that sounds amazing and good for you guys i mean coming out of bankruptcy um out of that and then a year later that you guys are like hey we got to clean this

stuff up because you know that is one that is one part of money that is so crucial and you talk about this a lot jade in your quick read quick read that money's not a math problem. Is that so often we just try to fix the math. And we try to go after the interest rate. We try to go after this. But realizing, which again, Marcial, I feel like the light has come on for him and his wife. Where he's like, oh, we're the problem. So we're going to have to do some things to change our behavior when it comes to

money, because that's really the crucial part of winning. That's right. And I know that we talked earlier about even those nitpicky things, like it's really easy to go, oh, that doesn't matter much. I can do it like that, or that's not going to be a big deal. But even with him saying, hey, should we put the $5,000 aside as our emergency fund? Even that, you kind of really have to go in there and go, wait a second, if I pile all this money together, there's really no differential between what's an emergency and what's a month-to-month expense. And before you know it, you're going to be plowing through that quote-unquote savings. And so even just making sure that when you say, okay, I'm going to follow this plan, that you follow it and you go, this is my thousand dollar emergency fund yes that goes

over there and then if i have to have an extra cushion in my budget there's you know a thousand dollars or whatever that needs to be in my budget and it is for month-to-month expenses not to go to the mall like really making clarity around those categories in our mind and understanding that so much of it like you said is is about how we're framing it in our mind. This money is for this. This money is for that. And I stick to my word, period. Yes. So good. Yeah. So money's not a math problem. Jade's quick read. It's at RamseySolutions.com. But she explains so much of this in depth and it's so good. Yeah. All right. Up next, we got Laurie in Nashville, Tennessee. Hey, Laurie, welcome to the show. Hi, how are you? We're doing great. How can we help?

Yeah, so I have $9,000 in student debt. It's my only debt that I have. I have my car paid off and everything. Good for you. I was recently unemployed, but I just got a job, so I'm thinking more about how I can pay off that debt. I have money in index funds and ETFs. I only have about $5,000 in there. So I'm just wondering if I should start paying down my student debt with that money or if I should leave some of that in there just as a little cushion because I don't have much more savings than what's in there. Okay. Yeah, well, good for you. That's great. Yes, I think these are great options to go ahead and cash out. If it's non-retirement, then cash out everything to throw at the debt, which is huge because that'll get you down to $4,000 left. But I do want to make sure you have at least

a $1,000 emergency fund and you can put that in a money market account or a high yield savings just kind of set that aside so if that's money that has to come out of one of these funds i would do that so cash these out take a thousand dollars put it aside and then throw the remaining at the debt because you have any extra savings at all laurie um i am gonna get my first paycheck soon so I think I'll have some left over in that so I think maybe I'll be able to build it pretty quickly if I don't spend a lot anywhere else

yeah that's great so I would definitely go ahead and just cash those out and again make sure to double check on taxes with any capital gains or any growth that you have from those but yeah use that to pay off debt which is just amazing that's such a gift double check on taxes with any capital gains or any growth that you have from those. But yeah, use that to pay off debt, which is just, it's amazing. That's such a gift that you've done that.

And then use those same savings goals and kind of muscles that you have after you pay off that debt to save up a fully funded emergency fund and then go on to retirement investing and on forth. And then, you know, Vanguard and index funds and all that can come back in the picture later on. But for now, I would use it to get out of debt. Well done, Lori. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I am Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with my good friend and Ramsey personality, Jade Warshaw. And we're taking taking your calls it's a free call anywhere in the country at 888-825-5225 up next we have kevin in los angeles hey kevin welcome to the show howdy thank you for taking my call so i'm kind of calling out of desperation not for myself but uh for my parents they just pretty much had their whole world turned upside down the past week.

What happened? So my dad, he's an owner-operator. He drives a truck and a semi, a CDL. And so last week, he was stepping out of his truck and took a wrong step, fell down the concrete, got hurt real bad, kind of tried to tough it out. And instead of going to the hospital he went home instead and when he was home he was dealing with pain and so he took a painkiller thinking that would help uh and then decided to call the insurance company see if he can get some type of workman's comp or whatever and uh they decided to do a urinalysis on my dad, which he would end up popping positive for painkillers.

And this was last week. Had no idea this was happening. Went back to work. And on Sunday, I believe, he was in an accident. It wasn't his fault. Someone else ran in front of him in his semi. And they towed away his truck and as he's trying to figure out how to get back home to dallas where my parents live that happened oklahoma he gets a call from

the company he leases on to find out that he is no longer allowed to drive because he felt his drug test and they fired him from the business and so in the night of a whole week my dad lost his entire career and he's in debt. They have no emergency fund. They're behind on the mortgage. They've been living on credit. And my sisters and I do not know how to help our parents out. Wow. Oh, wow. Oh, I'm so sorry. That's it's like the worst chain reaction that could happen happens. Right. And then there's no way for him to dispute any of this.

I mean, there's, you just have to like take it as is. I mean, there's no. Yeah. I mean, it's the worst because if you were to know my father, my dad's never done drugs in his life. He doesn't even drink alcohol. None of that. Legit, the man was in pain just trying to go back to work. And my sisters and I didn't realize why he was trying

to go to work so bad until it came out clean saying, hey, I've been living off of credit. Like I have to be out in the road making money because I got all this debt I got to pay off. I do have one question, and this is maybe neither here nor there, but did he have a prescription that he can say like, i i was given this yeah he and it's just it's an expired uh prescription but yeah he broke his back a couple years ago that's where it came from shoot and we've all done that that's crazy okay so you're wanting to know how to best help your parents. We're actually, we're having a family meeting tonight. And, you know, my sisters and my family, they're all in Dallas.

I live in California. And we're just trying to figure out, like, what do we do? You know, like, how do we keep our parents afloat through this whole process? And one thing I didn't realize, which my sister told me earlier today, is like they're even behind on their mortgage and no one had any idea. OK, where are you guys at financially, Kevin, you and your sisters? And like, how is everybody? I mean, we're we're all OK. Right.

My wife and I, we do OK. We both work full time and we have a little bit extra. You know, we've talked about possibly supporting them. My sister's the same way, you know. I mean, we don't have a ton extra, but we do have a little bit. Yeah, yeah. So, like, you know, we want to help our parents at the same time. You know, like, what do we do?

Yeah, my knee-jerk, I would love to, Jade, I would love to know your thoughts on this. So my knee-jerk reaction is, first and foremost, Kevin, you have to take care of your family, your wife, your kids, same with your sister, right? I mean, that's your priority above all else. So I never want someone to get in a financial situation where their own family is suffering because of parents or extended family, right? But if you got, I mean, there's a part of me that would say, yes, I think if you guys have the means to at least be able to help the mortgage side of it and let them not fall further behind. And again, it's not putting yourselves in a situation, in a dangerous situation financially,

but if you guys are able to help float that, you know, I would totally be okay with that. But I do, in the long term though, Kevin, this isn't gonna, you're not gonna be able to fix your parents, right? There's long-term, they're gonna have to be the ones that say, we did this. Our habits are terrible when it comes to money.

We have to handle our money completely differently to get different outcomes, all of that. Like, no, there's nothing in your power and your sister's power to help save them long-term. I'm thinking about the short-term, like with with like you know december 15th coming up you know like if like for them to be able to keep their house um what are things that you guys could do and i would be comfortable as a gift not to loan but to say hey here's a set amount of money that you and your wife kevin feel comfortable with if your sister wants to have that same conversation with her family and i would probably put a set amount of money and just say, this is what we have,

and pile it together and say, this will help them for three months, catch up to the mortgage, maybe even that. If there's anything in that vein, I would be very comfortable with you guys doing that if you and your wife agree on that. But as far as a long-term play, I mean, he's obviously going to have to find a different job uh hopefully in the same industry i mean i guess it's on your record i mean i i don't know how that how much that kind of thing follows you yeah there's uh like a rehabilitation process but still it's a process and it takes time right yeah yeah how much time do you know uh it could take anywhere from like a month to three months okay um which is fine but

the issue is like they have no emergency fund it's like how are they supposed to get through yeah he's gonna have to do something i mean he'll have to drive uber or like you know have in your mom probably your mom's gonna have to step up and do something as well they don't have any kids at home right you guys are all grown yeah how old are they we're all grown how old are they 62 okay yeah they can yeah they're We're all grown. How old are they? Your mom and dad? 62. Okay. Yeah, they can. Yeah, they're going to have to both just, I mean, whether they're putting together side hustles or whatever it is, I mean, they're going to have to have some level of income coming in to eat.

And it's just, and Kevin, I think too, like it is a hard reality when you become the grown child looking at your parents and thinking, oh my gosh, like, I'm now I'm switching roles, and I'm having to take care of right, and people find that physically having to take care of parents financially, emotion, I mean, like all of this, right. And so I do think that there's some boundaries there. And you know, you want to be you want to do this well. But, but yeah, as far as them, yeah, like you said, they have no savings, they have nothing. So they have to have a reality check is going to have to hit them, which I'm sure it has, where they're like, wow, we're going to have to do things we never thought we're going to have to do.

But what do you feel, Jade, about him and his sister helping catch up to the mortgage if they have the margin themselves? What do you think? Look, I think that ideally that's what you want to do. I think the hardest part in all of this, I think there's two really difficult parts. If you're the spouse being on board with that and going, okay, we're,

I mean, cause we're talking about thousands of dollars. Yes. Yes. And knowing that this has got to be a gift. It can't, I mean, we talked about this last segment.

It's got to be a gift. It can't be, Hey, borrow this money from us. And when you get back on your feet, you'll give it back. If you guys agree to do this, it's got to be a gift because especially in the situation that your parents are in, they can't get this money back.

They don't have it. And you don't want that hanging over you, Kevin. And so the spouse is being on board. I see two dynamics that have the ability to be kind of funky, but I think you can navigate this. A, the spouse. B, you've got siblings. And so there might be this feeling of

like well we're giving this what are you guys giving and just that dynamic of is it fair who's giving more i feel like you guys could have done more like i think you guys are really gonna have to put on your and it sounds like you do like it sounds like you're all adults here but keeping on that truly like big boy and big girl hat of we're coming to the rescue here um and then I think there's another part of this that's got to be really firm and especially in the siblings minds of it's really easy to focus on this and go what happened to my parents is my dad fell out of the truck and then he you know took a painkiller and like tell that whole story to yourself but really what

the story is over the course of their entire lives our parents have not handled their money well and you've honestly got to focus on that being the story otherwise the other story you feel the guilt of having to oh we gotta care for that i mean my dad just fell and and so really being able to reconcile that in your mind is going to be really important going forward because this is not going to be a short-term that's right situation yeah kevin hold on in your mind is going to be really important going forward because this is not going to be a short term situation. Yeah, Kevin, hold on the line. I'm going to give you a membership of Financial Peace University and Every Dollar Premium to give to your parents as a gift from us to at least get them some basic knowledge of how to handle money. And they're 62 and change is hard for anyone, but especially those 60 and 70 year olds.

It's changing decades of it. But hold on the line. Kelly's going to pick up and we're going to gift that to them. I'm so sorry, Kevin. Thanks for calling. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. So Jade and I were talking about Christmas

and I guess you were on a webinar. What was it that happened? And you thought, oh my gosh. Well, it's that time of year. So it's the media hits and we were on a webinar. What was it that happened? And you thought, oh my gosh. Well, it's that time of year. So it's the media hits and we've done a couple, they've been like, hey, can you write a couple of articles on this? I'm like, yes.

And I keep going back to the same thoughts. So the idea is it's Christmas time, right? And so many of you listening and we've all been there where it's like, I've got bigger fish to fry this year, right? Whether it's paying off debt or you've got real savings goals that you're trying to hit or whatever it is financially that is very important to you as a priority. Sometimes Christmas can really throw you off of your goals. And specifically when it comes to getting out of

debt, it can really be just that thing that's like, oh, it's a damper, right? Because it's like you want to participate in that traditional way where you're giving gifts and you're doing all the things. But the reality is if you want to stay on track and you want to hit your goals and you want to be responsible, you can't always do all of that. And so what does that look like?

Does it mean that Christmas is canceled and we're never going to get to, you know, it's like you can really go into that mopey side of it. But I just over the years and for those of you listening who do know my story you know like when you're paying off debt it's tough and for those of you don't know the story like when Sam and I were paying off you know 400 and 460 thousand dollars of debt you have to embrace Rachel a whole new set of values and truths when it comes to the holiday season if you want to get out of it unscathed yeah with your peace intact and with your money and your budget intact and so like I

said I've been writing some budgets about some articles about this and I just want to share with you yes and the folks listening some of the truths that I've embraced and hey poke holes in it like if you're like Jade that is so Scrooge or that is so like unrealistic hey be my guest but i'm just going to tell you what worked for me um the first thing on my list is and this is just to set you guys free so if you want to be free embrace it you do not have to buy a gift for someone simply because they bought a gift for you oh yes like i would agree with that i used to be that person that would buy like i'd go to Target and buy like a couple of inexpensive things just to have them on hand. So when someone gives you a gift, you can give it to them. Yeah. And I finally was like, you know,

in my church, there's a lot of folks that I'm friends with and there's like a lot of people in my circle. And it was just getting to the point that I was like, I am giving 50 gifts, like literally 50 gifts. Like and I I was like I'm not doing it anymore I would agree with that one I'm with you on that one because and I think it takes away it almost can be in this if you're in that mindset constantly sure it probably comes out of from a good place originally but then it just becomes okay you give me this here this yeah it's like the switcheroo thing that doesn't, you weren't even expecting. Yeah.

It wasn't even a gift, like you said, that you bought for that person because you saw it and you thought, you know what, I'm going to do it. It's just this general idea. So yes, that's good. And then a lot of times it's kind of like, honestly, it's kind of junky. Yeah. Like it's kind of like. It's like another candle.

Yeah. It goes in the candle drawer. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Okay. So then this one, this is what one of the things that Sam and I embrace in our family.

Draw names. Yes, we do this. Draw names. On both sides. Yes. Because on my side of them, it was, I have three siblings, then two nephews, then my mom and dad, then Sam's mom, his two sisters, their one, two, three, four, five, seven kids. Like, oh, there's a lot yes so my

thing is like okay draw names kids get them gifts but for the adults like in your family your nuclear and partially extended family yes draw names yes and can i tell you everyone wants to do that too they want to they're like oh no really look some people you know some people christmas is a sport for them and they're like they want to do it yeah they want to buy gifts for everybody and it's not that they're mad at you but in some way they kind of feel like it's ruining christmas for them for there not to be a zillion gifts from everybody oh that's funny do you know what i mean when we talked about it all as adult siblings this was years ago because we've done this for probably 10 plus years or someone had that said that and it was separate conversations on both sides Winston's side and on our side

and all of us were like thank you because for me honestly I'm just like I it's it's the amount of time time the everything and I'm like everyone's already stretched thin and especially when you have kids and all of it so we found it's great so we did we do a dollar amount okay say here's the budget for it. Love it. That everyone feels good about. And then, you know, we stopped doing, on Winston's side of the family, we stopped telling like, oh, send me what you want. Like, text me something.

Yes. We stopped that. So then your creativity has to kick in. So the thoughtfulness is in that. Because you have to think through like, they haven't asked for this. Yes. I'm not clicking a link that they sent me. I am, I have to figure out something for them.

And it's great. I love that. I'm going to add that to the list because it also pulls back expectations. Yeah. Because it's very different. If someone has said, and by the way, I want blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And you're in your mind, like calculating the cost of that. And you're like, crap, that's not what I planned on spending.

Yes. Then you are automatically feel an obligation to get them that. Whereas if it's just literally adults being adults that's right then that doesn't exist which brings me to my next point you don't have to buy gifts for adults they're grown they have their own money their own job if they want a new blender they can go buy it they do not need you to go buy them slippers like they can buy their own slippers rachel and that's okay are you saying from parents to adult kids what are you saying because sharon ramsey this year y'all sharon ramsey was like i don't think i really want to do chris i i y'all don't you sound like sharon y'all don't need anything y'all are adult you don't need anything and my sweet mother-in-law, she's like, here's your budget every year.

So we still get guests from Winston's parents. I don't think we get any from the Ramseys this year. I really don't. But here's the thing. Are you mad? Like, are you like, oh my gosh. Well, they're in Egypt right now. And I'm like, well, have fun across the continent.

We'll see y'all on the 25th evening. No, we're not mad. We're not mad. We're not mad. It's just funny. Rachel's like, I'm a little salty. There may have been a gift. The person shall not be named. Texted to my mom.

And she texted back. Yeah, I'm not sure we're going to be buying gifts this year. But thank you. Wow. I love it. That person will not be named. I am here for that. Look, if you're going to be buying gifts this year, but thank you. Wow. I love it. A person will not be named. I am here for that. Look, if you're trying to get out of debt.

No, especially. Yes. Yeah. If you're getting out of debt and if you're getting out of debt and there is an adult in your life who is mad that you didn't get the gift. Okay. But what if you're living like no one else? Then later you can live and give.

Then it could be a little a little questionable that's questionable oh that's so good i love it all right again this is for folks getting out of debt or have extreme goals that they're trying to hit um here's the other thing that i've embraced okay if you don't live by me like in my city yeah to where i can put the gift in your hand i am not sending out a gift to you. You're off the list. You're off my list. Oh, yes. Because I'm like, we don't even live by each other.

Just like family, friends? What are you thinking? Yeah, I'm thinking like friends that live far off, your great aunt that you haven't seen. She lives in New York. You know, that kind of thing. I'm with you. I'm with you on that.

You're off the list. Like, you're not seeing them on a day-to-day. Send them a Christmas card. Look at Kelly's face. Kelly may disagree with you on that one, Jake. Kelly, what do you think? Girl, you're not seeing them on a day-to-day. Send them a Christmas card. Look at Kelly's face. Kelly may disagree with you on that one, Jake. Kelly, what do you think? Girl, we're getting out of debt, Kelly. She doesn't have a mic that can talk for good reason.

Yeah, she probably, don't cuss me out back there. I can read your lips. I don't think I, I don't know if I have ever, ever is an extreme statement, but genuinely, I don't think I've ever gotten like a package delivered to my door and I open it and there's like a Christmas gift in there. I don't think that's ever happened like a package delivered to my door and i open it and there's like a christmas gift now that's never i don't think it's ever happened maybe because we all have family in town closer yeah has that happened to you is that what you're thinking

like you go wrap a gift and then you fedex it well all of my siblings except now that i've moved but most of my siblings live out of state and it's like i'm like y'all don't have to send me a gift from california here yes yes I'm like I don't know I'm like if you're in debt I'm grown like I said I can buy I love it my own bed bath and beyond you know I'm saying so okay that's the next one babies okay do not need gifts okay babies don't need gifts let me tell you what I did actually they have no clue it is kind of true you can literally take a gift Rachel and re-wrap it they don't know they think oh this is great I can just pull the paper off they play with the paper Rachel what age is baby to you three three and up three and younger I think two I think two's the cutoff for being able to do that I will say when

you have one baby and they're 18 months old they have no clue that is they don't know that is fair like my daughter is three and a half i could not do that with her like she she would know yeah yeah yeah we're out of that wood yeah i think like the end of two like getting up to two is like where you'd have to cut that off yes all right so babies don't need gifts what i would do i would focus on like the children in your life that are ages 3 to 18. Yeah, that's that's where that's the guilt trip. You don't want to go on. Like you need to get those folks gifts. That's how we end it.

That's where you want to be generous. It's the truth. Man, Jade. I would have loved to look at like a list of all the people in Jade's life that could have gotten a gift and then just scratch them off one by one to like five people. Make it feel good. So great. Oh, well, thank you, Jade, for going through this hour.

Thanks to everyone in the booth for making this happen. And thank you, America, for listening. Remember to take control of your money and create a life you love.