The Ramsey Show - App - Should I Buy Property Right Now? (Hour 2)

Episode Date: December 19, 2022

Dave Ramsey & Dr. John Delony discuss: Handling a convoluted estate, Buying a property while still in debt, When it makes sense to buy a new car, Navigating Christmas expectations with kids. Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6 Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the pods, moving, and storage studios, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is done, cash is king, and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. We help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, host of the Dr. John Deloney Show, is my co-host today.

Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Merry Christmas, America. We're glad you're with us. Beverly is with us in Atlanta, Georgia. Hi, Beverly. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey. Hello, Dave. How are you doing, doctor? How are you doing? We are better than we deserve how can we help i'm trying to get there too okay this is my situation my husband he died in 2021 may 2021 okay of course without a will i was not living with him we've been like separated but not legally for about two decades we have children and which are grown of course and um like I'm trying to do this probate thing. My problem is that I have to hire a probate attorney because what he did, he did own a house.

Okay, the house has a tax value of, like, $170, which I think is flying out because he didn't take care of it. And the problem I'm having with probate is because he didn't file taxes with me within the last two years, one or two years. I have proof, have difficulty proving that we never got a divorce because in Philadelphia, the rules state that, okay, that you have to do the taxes, you know, if you, because they cannot tell there's no divorce record. Do you understand where I'm going with it? They can't prove that you were married at the time. So I'm having to go through this court thing.

Wait a minute, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Yeah, that sounds backwards. Wait, wait, wait. He lived in Philadelphia? And I live in Atlanta. Okay. And you've been separated for 10 years. That's weird.

Well, more than 10, really. That's whacked. Okay, so why do you think you get the house? Because you basically were divorced. Well, I wasn't divorced. I was legally married. I understand, but why do you think you get the house morally? You've been gone, girl.

Really? I mean, what's the law with that i mean i wasn't asking about the law i was asking about what's right you weren't married for the last 10 years plus 20 years 20 years in a very real way i mean technically you are because you guys are weird but you said you said you've been doing your taxes together up until two years ago we have not been doing our taxes together but i have been receiving so we're both um veterans right i'm a disabled veteran i have been receiving um veteran and social security pension through him and me because i served also but i've received you know through him all these years until the day he died. Yeah, and I guess whatever widows, because you're still technically married, you get that, and the Veterans Administration probably isn't looking into it.

But when you went to probate court, the people in Philadelphia went, you kind of like need to show us you're not divorced, and two years of tax returns would do that. Obviously, the law in Pennsylvania is not that if people don't file married filing jointly for two whole years that they are automatically divorced under Pennsylvania law. That is not the case. So something else is going on here when you went into probate court. I know. Like somebody's fighting you.

Like one of the kids says you shouldn't get this house. No. The kids are backing me up, which I could do, okay, have one of the children go up there, but we did take a trip up there, but the paperwork was wrong, and I'm just, like, tired of, you know, spending my money. What's the house worth, actually, if you were to put it on the market with a real estate agent? That's another thing, too. The tax value of the house is $170, right? But it's in poor shape. What would the house sell for if you put it on with a real estate agent? With a real estate agent, I might get $170 for it with the tax value of it. Okay.

So if you could sell it for $170, because you're not moving to Philadelphia, that's what you're going to do with it, then what's owed against it? Oh, it's about like $17,000 in back taxes. That's all. Which I am paying, you know, he had a payment plan. He had no mortgage. No, he had no mortgage, no. Uh-uh.

Okay. What do you make? What do I make? I make, through my VA, Social Security, I get like $4,800 per month. And how old are you? Oh, I am 63. Okay. Here's what I would do.

I'm the same age as you, okay? I'm getting ready to be. I'm 62. If I woke up in your shoes, which I can't imagine, but i did because i gotta tell you if i left sharing for 20 years one of us would be dead but yeah but anyway uh but if i woke up in your shoes what would i do i would hire i would hire to get a 170 000 asset as the wife of a dead guy um the legal wife of a dead guy no divorce occurred and uh there's no one arguing about this no one's anything we just need to get the house deeded to you so you can sell it

you need a judge's order from probate court to be able to sell the house i would just hire a probate attorney that's what i did i mentioned and they said you just can't do it it's impossible no we didn't say I didn't do it. I just want to make sure that I'm doing it because I love the way, you know, if somebody's doing something stupidly, I love the way you tell them, hey, you're being a fool. No, you're not being a fool. If you hired an attorney to work you through this very complicated

and unusual situation, you're not being a fool at all in that regard. No, no. situation um you're not being a fool at all in that regard no no and uh because you need to get basically you need to get a judge's order in probate court to be able to give to the title company so they can issue a title because the guy that's on the title is not here to sign it and so the you know that you have a ruling from the judge that allows the title company to write title insurance and the judge is going the title company to write title insurance, and the judge is going to say, oh, okay, this lady, they were separated forever, but they never got a divorce, and there's no Pennsylvania law that makes you instantly divorced, and so we're going to issue a ruling that says this house is to be sold,

and Ms. Beverly from Atlanta can sign the deed. And you mentioned, I heard you mention that you had to protect your children. If they give you grief over it, you can tell them, no, he left, or I left to keep us safe, and we just never got around to the divorce. You are going to have to explain that at some point, why you didn't ever file on him. Protect him from what? Whether he was, she just mentioned that, whether he was abusive or he wasn't safe to be around oh is that why she said she left i missed that oh okay okay um she had to protect her children which i understand well that's a different issue but i also understand um the

divorce process is messy if somebody wants to drag it out i get all that but 20 years is a long time a long long long time now closure closure is. Your time and your money. Yeah. Painter, get off the ladder. Yeah. That's the plan. So, yeah. It's like, is that the guy on your Instagram I saw? He said, I'm worried about dealing with my daughter's dating and where I hide the bodies.

And he went, no, on second thought, I'm not. No. Not worried about where he's going to hide the bodies. And he went, no, on second thought, I'm not. No? Not worried about where he's going to hide the bodies. Not worried about the daughter. It's like the devil in Tundra. It's fabulous. And on second thought, I'm not worried about where I'm going to bury the bodies.

I literally have no idea what you're talking about. Well, it's just like, that's what would happen if I was gone for 20 years and didn't get a divorce. This is The Ramsey Show. dr john deloney ramsey personality is my co-host today thank you for joining us america hey ramsey fans we got something new going on over here check out our new ramsey apparel oh my goodness it's happened custom designed to remind you why normal sucks and why you choose to be weird so t-shirts hoodies uh all kinds of fun stuff t uh sweatshirts the whole thing cash is king better than i deserve live

like no one else you got one on i do i look like a smoke show not even gonna lie i look pretty good i can feel my own body heat right now i don't know why i said that sorry if i'm just real quiet what will happen now the room listen you get one of these ramsey sweatshirts i will lose weight it's got spanks built in yeah i can't breathe i haven't taken a full breath since the show why you looked like i was trying to catch i'm just slow okay yeah it's there john you're you're amazingly handsome trusty dusty ramsey sweatshirt on thank you for saying i was handsome oh my goodness go to ramsey solutions.com and get free shipping on orders over 40 because you're going to want a lot of these. RamseySolutions.com.

Wow. That just happened. All right. Jason is with us. Jason is in Chicago. Hi, Jason. How are you? Hi, guys.

Thanks for taking my call. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas to you. What's up? I'm actually in the sticks about 90 miles from Chicago. My wife and I just remarried. We were recently divorced and we're 48 and 40, about $110,000 income. You remarried each other?

No, no. We were previously divorced. Oh, okay. You have remarried after the divorce. I got you. Okay. You said my wife and I got confused. Okay.

Sorry. Yeah. We have 30,000 in debt and we're in baby step two. We have 70,000 in the bank from the sale of my house and we're currently renting and buy a piece of land that's kind of smack dab in the middle. Sounds like you are. I thought you were driving 50 miles each direction. Sorry. I'm actually driving 100 miles right now. We're looking for land that's in the middle so that we can both drive about equal distances. So this land, this opportunity is about in the middle. So eventually each one of us will be driving about 50 miles one direction for our jobs.

What do you do? What do you all do? Well, we've both been in a place of employment for 20 and 25 years. Yeah, but you started a whole new life together. So that's important, but I also don't care. What do you all do? I'm a design engineer. She manages a salon.

Okay. I read some research recently that suggested that some of the rise in mental health challenges that are going on in the country is continually increasing commute stressors from distance, and all to say is that is a significant amount of strain you're putting on your young marriage. But that's neither here nor there. That's not what you're calling. I wouldn't do that if I were you is all I'm saying, just friend to friend.

And I get it. I have, I have looked for jobs, uh, out closer to her area. Um, but I, I have three children,

um, all above 16 and it is important for me to be able to see them. And it, and it, because I'm going that direction for my job, it, it also helps me to maintain a relationship with them. Is there not salons in that area that your wife might consider taking over?

Yeah. We're talking about that, too. Without getting into too much detail, she's well taken care of in the salon that she's in. Okay. Here's the thing. No, I would not buy the land. Okay.

If it were perfectly situated and your situation was perfectly situated, which we've all agreed in the last few minutes it's not, even then I would not buy it. Let's say you both lived two miles from it, or you both worked two miles from it, and the kids were three miles from it. I still would not buy it because you're in debt. I would have you to get out of debt and build an emergency fund first. And once you're 100% debt-free, in other words, I would write a check today from the sale of your house and keep renting and I'd be debt-free today. Now, then I'm going to start talking about how we can build a quality life together and spending an hour and a half on the road every day. Oh, that's morning and evening. I'm sorry, three hours a day on the road every day

is not conducive to anything good. It's just not. It's not a quality of life. And so I know where road rage comes from. It's when I'm in traffic more than 15 minutes. So, you know, it's just, would you people get out of the way? Oh, wait, there's thousands of you. And one of the biggest challenges for new marriages,

whether it's a second marriage, third marriage, or a first marriage, is the idea that I'm going to keep my old life and just drop this new thing I've just done into the middle of my old life. I'm going to keep going to the same gym. I'm going to keep hanging out with the same friends. I'm going to keep doing the same stuff. And I'm just going to also have this marriage. The ones that are successful realize everything is on the table because everything is new now.

We just created a whole new life. And there's going to be some things off the table. And there's going to be some things that we have to give up. Things that we're going to quit. We're going to change. Because the marriage is priority. because it's priority now and when it's not priority now your statistics get bad that's right beth is in denver hi beth welcome to the ramsey show hi i'm so excited to be talking to you guys you too what's up christmas

merry christmas well i am calling to for y'all to settle the score. My husband and I are not necessarily having an argument, but we are having a debate about whether he should buy a new truck or not. You are the most kind. We're not having an argument. We're having a debate. We're just having a debate. Well said. That's nice.

Merry Christmas. It's a fight, Beth. Just call it what it is. It's not a fight. It's not a fight. Okay. I am okay. Until he loses. But, but well i do think he's going to lose but um we have walked through the baby steps um we're on set four five and six and so he wants to buy a new truck and i don't think what

is your net worth our who our income is no 400 i don't know our? Our income is $400. I don't know our net worth. Your income is $400. Okay, how much do you have in your mutual funds in retirement, do you think? About $100. Okay, what's your home worth? It's worth $550,000, a roundabout, but we still have $180,000 left to pay on it. Okay, do you own anything else of substance, of large value?

No, we just own a couple cars. Okay. So if we had $400,000 on your house plus $100,000, you have a half a million dollar net worth, roughly, okay? Roughly, yes. And you make $400,000 a year. So you're just now getting to Baby Steps 4, 5, and 6. You haven't been there long.

Yes. We haven't been there very long. And you haven't made $400,000 very long? No. Okay. So it's a little bit early to buy a new truck. We recommend at Ramsey and have for 30 years not to buy a brand-new vehicle unless you have at least a $1 million net worth.

You're going to be there fairly soon, but you're not going to be there right now. So you win the argument. Well, thanks. but you're not going to be there right now so you win the argument well thanks assuming assuming i actually hold the referee's whistle which i'm not positive i do here but um assuming you do i'll call him out of bounds now i will say by here's the thing a brand new vehicle goes down in value it loses 70 of its value in the first four years. You cannot afford to take that big a hit until you have a substantial amount of money, and then you can afford to lose that much money and have a nice car. But when you buy a $50,000 car, it's going to be worth 70% of that, what, $15,000 in about an eye blink. When you buy a $100,000 car, it's going to be worth $30,000 so fast, it will make you throw up a little in the back of your mouth.

It's ridiculous. But you can afford that if you've got $2 million. I mean, you can lose $70,000 over three years if you've got $2 million in order to drive a nice car, and you make $400,000. You can afford it. That's okay. But, no, I would not buy a new car in your situation. So you think the only time is after you have that million dollars?

After you have a $1 million net worth. Okay. And then all of your vehicles, things with motors and wheels added together, should never add up to more than half your annual income. So unless he's buying a Ferrari, he's probably okay. You said a truck. Well, you can get a $120,000 truck, but, you know, but, yeah, we want to keep your vehicles under $200,000, all of them added together, after you have a net worth of $1 million.

This is The Ramsey Show. The Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Thanks for being with us, America. Merry Christmas to you. Our question of the day comes from Blinds.com. They have a 100% satisfaction guarantee. That means even if you mismeasure or you pick the wrong color, they'll remake your blinds for free. Free samples, free shipping, and the new promos they run all the time.

You'll save even more. Use the promo code Ramsey to get the best deal. right today's question comes from clark in chicago clark writes things have been tight for us financially this year and we haven't been able to buy the big gifts we are hoping to get for our kids how can we navigate any possible meltdowns from the kids that might come from being disappointed by not getting what they had been hoping for oh man day this is this question changed by age um yes and it also changes by um how far upstream you want to get so this is kind of like somebody asking hey we're down by 32 runs in the bottom of the ninth how do we win this game well you're probably not going to win this one because you're down by 32 and you waited till

the ninth inning to and you suck at baseball well i wouldn't go that far but but but you're right so i uh in our house we sheila and i my wife decided we're not doing a bunch of crazy big gifts this year um we're gonna do a bunch of crazy big gifts this year. We're going to do an experience. And so we started prepping the kids months out. Christmas is going to look and feel differently this year. We also reached out to – we have the only grandkids, so I got a real generous sister and brother and sister-in-law and my parents,

and they love to shower. And we said, hey, this year we're going smaller. So we started conversations on the front end, and we've started inviting our kids into more giving things so they can see with their own eyes and touch their own hands people who are go without during christmas and so we started a preparation for this moment a long time ago if we had just waited until christmas day and they wake up and they run down there and there's no that's gonna be tough and they're kids and I didn't if kids get the feelings hurt doesn't bother me because they're little kids if they're 9 10 11 12 13 on up that's when you can start having different conversations but man it's Christmas morning this is a little bit late in the game to be having this kind of

conversation it sounds more like the kids are gonna to do what kids are going to do. It feels like Clark feels like less of a father because he's not able to buy the things that make him feel good that he's able to give to his kids. And I think Clark and his wife need to look in the mirror and recognize they busted their butt this year. It was a tough year. It was a hard year. And they provided for those kids, and they did a really good job. Yeah. In order to let yourself off the hook, you and your wife sit down and try to name the big gift that you got when you were a kid on any Christmas. You probably don't remember a single one. If you remember one, that might be good if you remember two that's

unusually good doubt real seriously you remember five christmas gifts from five different years i remember one i think i could probably come up one or two yeah yeah it's probably the same christmas i was having to dodge dinosaurs because it was a long time ago but um we got a stone wheel that's it i got a wheel we got this new thing called fire we got fire um now the uh uh so i guess my point is that they'll live through it yes they will um and uh the bigger deal you make about it the bigger deal there's going to be right um but i do think that um it's also the secret i use playing golf um the secret to happiness is low expectations yes exactly let's lower their little expectations in some methodology age appropriately um if it's a 16 year old that's

a completely different discussion on lowering expectations than if it's a 16-year-old, that's a completely different discussion on lowering expectations than if it's a four-year-old. And with a 16-year-old, you say, hey, it's been a tough year, and I just want you to know, coming out of the gate, there's going to be fewer presents. It's just going to be a little slim. Yeah, it's going to be tough. Just get your little butt ready. But with the younger ones, if you have younger ones, you can say, hey, Santa sent a letter and said, it's been a tough time, so there's going to be fewer gifts this year, but I wanted to provide you more time to spend together. Set up a tent in your living room, and you all have a camp out. Do something fun.

And he said he loves you extra special and whatever. And they'll remember that forever. All that's good. And so you can create experiences and, you know, marshmallows still stuck in the carpet four months later. I don't know, whatever. But there's all kinds of stuff you can do here that's not um doesn't come out of a box because we've all had the experience those of us with a few

years uh on us of the child um that's three playing in the box more than playing with the item that came in the box very distressing for the parent that bought that thing from neiman marcus but yeah um so yeah that's so there is a even as a grandfather i will admit um papa dave suffers from i am enjoying this more than they're going to oh dude i do too man that's one of my favorite things in the world i'm let down that my children have all told me i have to stop overdoing it so it's it's it's just ruined christmas for me i'm just saying but um no so i mean that's the thing so i think brad um no clark clark this is from clark wait a minute christmas vacation just emailed us right here on the ramsey show

well tall cousin eddie we said hey clark um wow yeah and that you're not getting the bonus from your mean old boss no pool no pool man that's not coming so but i do think this is did you guys do this no you really didn't do it oh my i'm just saying you guys are pranking us in there this is not this is real it's a, so whoever did it might have been being cute. Oh, it just came. Yeah. But I don't think Christmas Vacation had a location, did they? Was it Chicago?

Some of you tweet in or email in, let us know, because I don't know. But trivia for Christmas. All right, so I did want to talk about this. So sidebar, turn a little bit of an angle off of this um because i've got dr john deloney here on your past change your future 100 of adults that go and visit other adults called their relatives at christmas bring some form of boundary issue, some form of heavy-to-light trauma, some form of negative or positive memory expanded in our brains to these singular day events around Christmas.

And speaking of setting expectations and being grown-ups during the holidays talk about navigating family crap that is in your own brain and is in their brains and boundaries through these holidays what are some basic ideas or rules that well the strange thing i experience is i and i wish there was a less woo-woo way of saying this, but I feel like my body becomes 14 again. I feel like I become a kid, and I instantly fall into I'm a middle child, and I've got an older sibling and a younger sibling. I feel like I just get in this weird, and I have to remind myself,

wait a minute, I've got grown kids and a house and a wife. I'm not 14 anymore. And so, A, I have to be cognizant of myself. What we did this year, what Sheila and I have done the last few years is we send an email out to the family. And here's when we're going to be able to come. Here's what we want to do. Here's some things that we think will be fun. Anything y'all are interested in doing. And we like to do is have those conversations the best we can. And our family works best in writing before we get yeah but i mean when i get there i the years that i did not pre-think about perception and i'm not 14 i'm not the broke kid that came home with your daughter and you didn't want her to marry. And I didn't blame them later.

But I would not have wanted my daughter to marry the guy that came home with her when it was me. So either I get that. They weren't mean about it. And they're still not mean about it. But I'm not that guy. I have to reset my mind intentionally before I pull in the driveway. That's right. There's some pre-planning relationally, psychologically you kind of have to do.

Otherwise, you do fall right into that hole, don't you? You do, and I start getting sharp with people. I start eating too much on the junk food table to make myself feel a little bit better. People will grab more drinks. So I think it's about knowing all I can control in the situation is me. And if you want to poke some fun at me and have some fun, I'm not going to take it personal. I'm not going to push back. I'm going to smile.

Or I'm going to take myself out of this situation. And that's really the two options I got. I'm not discussing Trump. No. And I'm not discussing COVID. You are not going to change anybody's heart and mind. It's Jesus' birthday. This is The Ramsey. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today.

Elijah is with us in Pittsburgh. Hey, Elijah, welcome to the Ramsey Show. What's up? Hey, Dave, thank you. How are you doing today? Better than I deserve. How can I help? So I'll dive right into it.

My parents are up visiting for Christmas and money conversations have come up a couple of times, nothing super specific, but I know that they have about 21,000 in car debt and they're not on a budget at all. My wife and I are in baby step three, but one of the things that's most been weighing on me is feeling like my parents don't really have a retirement plan in place. My mom is 60. My dad's 58. She says she wants to do something, but she feels like it's too late for them to start.

And even if they did, my dad is historically set in his ways. I know I can't change them. They have to do it themselves. How do I bridge the way out that they can take control? Okay. Well, I think you're accurate. It's one of the most frustrating things is dealing with people that we love dearly and trying to get them to do things that are good for them

when you care more than they care, you know. So it is the old lead a horse to water thing right you can't make them drink so all we can do is lovingly lead them to water and then release and step back so whatever weight you are feeling right now uh that whatever uh sense of responsibility you feel right now, whatever sense of worry you feel on their behalf, I want you to promise that after you take two or three steps, you just lay that down. You've got to step back and just go,

I've done what I can do, and now it's up to them. Now, if they pick up and start running down the road a little bit and then they need a little more encouragement you can be their biggest coach but you can't you know part of this deal is you offloading the weight fair enough yeah okay because you're worrying about them and gonna work because they're not worried about them now there might be a mathematical reality to okay 20 years they're going to have nothing or in 30 years they're going to have nothing and so we might put a little money away in savings or something once you guys get your

financial picture cleaned up but right now y'all are still well it just gives you a reason to be wealthy scratching you're going to want to help people and they may be one of them but when you're wealthy someday have you sat down and had this conversation you've had it with your mom have you sat down and asked your dad just mano hey man um what's your do you have a will do you have a plan um what's your retirement plan look like i've not conversations with them have kind of just been surfacy. Have they always been that way, or is it just about this one topic? Yeah, it's kind of always been that way. I want to challenge you over the holidays, if it's not going to create drama,

if you said, hey, I'd love to take you out, Dad, and have a conversation. I've got the benefit. My dad's a homicide detective, and so talking about death and us not being here,'ve had that conversation forever um probably probably too much um so that it was but it was still an awkward conversation for me to broach like hey i was talking about will stop us and he was awesome he had it all planned out um as most police officers do but i do think it's worth sitting down and saying, at least broaching the subject, and it might not be this Christmas, but it may be a tiny little seed planted that your dad needs to start having these conversations. Or it may just completely shut the door, and like Dave said, it makes it much easier to set those bricks down and quit carrying them when the door is shut and sealed. Does that make sense?

So, in other words, you sit down over a cup of coffee or beer, and you go, Dad, I'm worried about you and Mom. Tell me what you got planned. I'm working on my money stuff, and I'm just now starting to get it figured out. And I remember how scared I was, and I think Mom's kind of scared. So tell me what you got planned, and is there any way I can help you because I'm starting to learn about this stuff. And if he says, mind your own dadgum business go jump in the creek then do just that that's your only option he told you exactly where you stand and he might i don't know who this guy is or he might go yeah i don't really have anybody to talk to about it i'm so scared i can't breathe

and for the first time in your life or the first time in recent decades you might have a really deep conversation with him emotionally that's right and and dave said it best lead with your vulnerability not what he's doing wrong no never you do not need to wag a finger particularly at this guy yeah this guy he's old school i'm just now figuring out how expensive it is to be an adult in this world and it got me thinking about man you guys are well my wife and i work in this ramsey plan and i'm so i'm so first time ever i'm starting to see how this stuff works and i'm simultaneously not as scared as I was, and excited about the future. And it kind of got me looking over there, and I was remembering looking at mom's eyes the other day how scared I was, and I kind of think she might be, and I don't know, maybe even you. But is there some – you know, tell me you're okay.

Tell me you got a million dollars, or tell me to go my own business and pound sand. i just want to ask you about this because i love you and it's just a subject i've gotten excited about yeah and just understand that especially with with with with certain generations this the shame around how much you have or don't have is so powerful and so great you may get a response that has nothing to do with you and that has everything to do with him. It's every generation. And it is. It is. But at least you will be able to sleep at night knowing, hey, I had this conversation. I broached the subject.

I'm setting the sucker down. Yeah. And then just, you know, it's if I can show you what I've learned. And so here's the thing a guy taught me about. He said, if you tell your story, no one can debate you about your story. But when you start trying to tell them their story, everybody wants to debate about their own story. They go, you don't know what you're talking about.

You don't know what's happening here. But I'm not going to – don't wag your finger. And there's probably some pretty obvious things they're doing that are stupid butt stuff. But don't even go there. Don't bring it up. What about the car loan? Don't even bring it up. Just let him go.

Yeah, I got this car debt. And if you can get him to pull them into it rather than push them into the conversation, then maybe you get there, and then you go, hey, man, you know, I went through this thing, and here's the website to look at, or I went, here's a YouTube clip. These people yelling that they're out of debt. And here's a guy that, you know, 17 years or, uh, in 2017 had nothing. And he went through this plan. Now he's a millionaire and there's all those clips on YouTube. You can watch, you know, and, um, I mean, we've had like a billion downloads now or something. um you know that kind of thing you're just

sharing information that you have experienced and just stay over there and um so uh and my pastor used to say a man with an experience is not at the mercy of a man with an opinion yeah well i don't believe in all that get out of debt stuff well that's okay i understand but uh but i'm really enjoying being out of debt and i remember if uh this is years ago now but i um had a friend who's had a parent who i think had a stroke or passed away and um no we didn't pass away but almost and i remember asking my parents hey do y'all have like a plan what if one of y'all has a heart attack or has a stroke and nothing there nothing came of that conversation but the next year for christmas they bought the

kids they bought themselves long-term care insurance as our christmas present and i thought that was fantastic and we all cheered and it was great but it took them a while they talked about it they went and met with their financial advisor whatever but it was again it was a seed that was planted like oh yeah we don't really haven't thought about what happens if. They never answered the question, but then they went and answered the question. They went into the question. That's right. Yeah.

Yeah. It's interesting to lead people, lead your children, your grown kids, which is always an oxymoron, right? But, I mean, you're a 30-year-old. You're a 25-year-old. How do you communicate with them? Because you can't use your dad voice. You know, it doesn't work because they don't have to listen anymore. They, like, make their own money and stuff.

And so you have to use your friend voice. And it's like, you know, it's like, I'm your friend. And I want to persuade you because you're being an idiot. And, you know, but you can't say any of that. But it would be going through your head. It's like, you know, maybe, I don't know. When I used to do that, I felt this way. And going through your head it's like you know maybe i don't know when i used to do that i felt this way and you know it's just like i've tried that and it didn't work out well i had a counseling professor say whenever somebody's making a dumb choice instead of telling

them you should be doing this you can tell them yeah you could try that and um i'll buy the first round when this thing implodes i'll be here when this goes sideways. And it's a great way to communicate. I wouldn't do that. I'm not saying I wouldn't do that. Hey, and parents over the holidays, if your kids get the courage to ask and have a hard conversation about wheels, be gentle with them.

Be graceful. They're trying. They're practicing all these things we're teaching. Be graceful with them. Yeah. Don't be a butt. Or that. It's Jesus's birthday. Don't be a butt. This is The Ramsey Show. Dave here. You can find all of our shows with the Ramsey Network app on your smartphone. It's the only place to listen to the entire back catalog of episodes.

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