The Ramsey Show - App - Should I Cash Out My Whole Life Policy? (Hour 3)

Episode Date: November 8, 2022

Dave Ramsey & Kristina Ellis discuss: Cashing out a whole life policy. Preparing for getting fired. Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6 Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the pods of moving and storage studios, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. We help people build wealth, do work they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Christina Ellis, Ramsey Personality, number one best-selling author,

is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Ricky is in Rhode Island. Hi, Ricky. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. I really appreciate it. Sure. What's up? So I was just kind of driving around and I was thinking about different things financially.

And I was thinking about how my... I got a whole life insurance policy that was purchased by my parents back in 2001. I'm sorry. And so it has like a cumulative value or cash surrender value of $10,811. So I was wondering if it would be financially smart to try to withdraw that and put that in like a money market fund so that maybe it grows a little larger, a little faster. How old are you? I just wanted to get your opinion.

I'm 36. Okay. You're married, have children? Single dad, two kids. Okay. You have other life insurance? I do through my employer. I have term life insurance through my employer. How much? I think it's $75,000, I believe.

What do you make? Before taxes, $62,000. They have me projected making this year after taxes and insurances union dues all that comes out i'm a firefighter how old are your babies uh my daughter is 10 and my son is uh nine okay and how much debt do you have I have $10,000 in vehicle debt, $228,000 for a mortgage, and that's pretty much it. Okay. All right. Are you ill? Are you uninsurable?

Can you get insurance? Yeah, I can get insurance. Okay. All right. So our recommendation, and then I'll tell you why we recommend that as well, is that someone have 10 times to 12 times their income on them in term life insurance. You may or may not want that much, but let's just say, as an example, you went and got a half a million dollars at 36 years old. It costs nothing. It's very inexpensive, very inexpensive 15 to 20 year level term insurance it's the cost

of a pizza okay now if you died that money could go into a trust in mutual funds and would produce fifty thousand dollars a year four thousand dollars a month for your children. Okay. Okay. And that's really the only people that are dependent upon you that would suffer if due to your death in terms of income, your income being gone. You follow me? Right. Okay. And so the purpose of life insurance is to do that. Now, whole life life insurance sucks. That's why I said I'm sorry when you said you had one. Because it's 20 times more expensive. In other words, what you can buy for $5 of term costs you $100 in whole life. And that extra $95 per hundred is going to build up a cash value inside,

which yours has grown to $10,000 after all of these years. And if you die, they pay only the face value. You do not get your heirs, your beneficiaries, do not get the money that you paid the extra $95 to get. So your face value of your whole life policy is what, $30,000, $40,000? I'm looking at the... The face value. Yeah, I'm looking at that.

I'm looking at the policy now. I don't see where it says the face value. Or just the value. I just know that the accumulated value right now is ten thousand dollars they accumulate value cash value and then my death benefits a hundred thousand that's what i'm talking about okay your death benefit okay that's all right so you you you have paid or your parents have paid five dollars per hundred dollars for the one hundred thousand dollar policy they paid ninety five dollars into a savings account to create a ten thousand dollar savings account called cash

value when you die your your death benefit is one hundred thousand it's like a savings account that when you die the bank keeps your money which makes it stupid okay it's a horrible product it is the payday lender of the middle class all right and if you leave it in there it's only paying about one percent uh growth and and until you die and then they keep it so it's just ridiculous so what would i do if i woke up in your shoes i'd get five hundred thousand dollars worth term, and I would cash this crap in, and I'd use the $10,000. Christina? Yeah. I think it's just wild that-

Use the $10,000 to pay off the car immediately. Yes. 100%. I know. My eyes kind of lit up whenever I saw you had $10,000 in a car payment, and I was like, oh, that's a lovely coincidence. That's pretty perfect. But I do think it's kind of crazy, too too thinking that this was bought in 2001 and a lot of

times these life insurance agents sell this as such a great investment and this has been around for 21 years and it has just over a ten thousand dollar value like think about that that that's kind of crazy you live to 2000 you'll be able to retire on this you know uh two thousand years old um not 2000 yeah i mean you're 21 years, and we have proven mathematically just by the discussion of the numbers that it sucks. And so not to mention the concept sucks. So, yeah, get $500,000 worth of term insurance. Go to ZanderInsurance.com. Shop around.

Get you the best quote on that. Put the beneficiary as a trust for your kids if you were to die while they're still minors you probably don't want to leave it to the ex and hope she does a good job with it no i think that's a bad plan so just leave it to the kids and uh the income off of which can be used for their good in replacement of child support or whatever we want to call it and uh then um you know when they're grown and if you're still single at that point and you have no one counting on you at all and you want to drop the policy, that's okay. Like, you don't really need car insurance if you don't have a car.

Right. Well, and hopefully, too, following this plan, your assets and your savings will continue to grow so that if you do end up having a significant other and you want to leave them something, you will have real money saved in your bank account yeah i think that's a good point for the rest of you listening the typical scenario is let's say you're like a 32 year old couple and you've got um two little kids like how old are you i'm not gonna admit that on air well of course you are you can't ask that on you ask me how you make fun of me being 62 every day so oh my god but okay you're a young couple thank you with two little kids i'm gonna pretend you're 32 jeez i don't even know how you are i don't it doesn't

matter but the uh the point being that if something happened to either one you or your husband today those kids got to eat from little from three four years old all the way to 18 or 20 so you need life insurance more at that time because you don't have a big, unless you've got a million dollars in the bank or a million dollars in mutual funds, you need life insurance more at that time than you do at any other time. I'm over 30. I'll give you that. Whoa. Well, I just had my 32nd anniversary of my 30th birthday. So there you go. This is The Ramsey personality is my co-host today

oh joining us now now for this segment, one of my favorite people on the planet, Lisa Turkhurst, the president of Proverbs 31, multiple best-selling books, number one, number one, number one, number one, and the new book, Good Boundaries and Good Byes. Whoa, and that's like goodbye, like buh-bye. Yeah, you're out of here. Loving others without losing the best of who you are. Lisa, how are you, my friend? I am so well. Thank you so much

for that very generous introduction, Dave. Well, we appreciate you, all you do, and your friendship all these years. You've done an incredible job with your writing career and your ministry, and we're just honored to have you. Congrats on the new book! So you got into our friend Dr. Henry Cloud's territory here with boundaries. Did you have fun dancing in that sandbox? Well, I tried to dance in a little different box, trying to give people the spiritual and biblical confidence to know that boundaries are not just a good idea, they're God's idea. But also I'm speaking from the vantage point of someone who really struggles with boundaries and who has struggled with people pleasing. And so I think people will appreciate my vulnerability and my full admission that I'm

writing for my struggle, not my strength, but I've made really good strides and I think I can help others do that same thing. When you do decide to set a boundary, and I was reading one of the pages about someone coming into your home and you realized it was a mistake and you had to ask them to leave. When you do decide to set a boundary, that number one i don't care who you are if you're a loud mouth like me or a sweet person like you either one it doesn't matter there's still this idea that this this may not go well this may result in rejection uh because generally someone that you have to set a boundary with is not someone who likes boundaries. And so they're probably not, it's probably not going to go well. So it's scary to do it, isn't it?

It is scary. You know, I love what my counselor, Jim Kress, who weighs in throughout the book, says healthy people respect healthy boundaries. Unhealthy people have never met a boundary they like. So it can be scary. But here's the thing. If you draw a healthy boundary and someone rejects you or expresses great disappointment in you, then that person is eventually going to reject you or express great disappointment in you. in a kind way. I would say the most important thing to remember is that we really shouldn't be putting boundaries on other people. We should draw boundaries around ourselves to keep ourselves sane, stable, and self-controlled. And I think that is going to be a really helpful paradigm shift. When you try to put a boundary on another person, you're in essence trying to control them. And if they're unwilling or incapable of making the changes you want, you're in essence trying to control them. And if they're unwilling or incapable of making the changes you want, you're going to be incredibly frustrated and

feel like a boundary failure. But when you draw a boundary around yourself, then you're able to stay empowered to do something about the situation you may find yourself in. That's so good, Lisa. Man. So a lot of relationships, they have ups and downs. How does someone know if a relationship is healthy or unhealthy? Well, I think there's several factors that you have to consider. And throughout the book, I give checklists to help people become more self-aware. But let me give you a couple of things to consider. If you find yourself needing to diminish the best of who you are to cover up the worst of who someone else is, that's an unhealthy situation. If you find yourself having to normalize or possibly even just normalizing behaviors that shouldn't be normalized and dancing with dysfunction and other people are pointing it out but you're wanting to make excuses for it that's a huge situation and also if you find

yourself in a situation where you're saying phrases like i just can't take it anymore that's a big indication you see wherever there's chaos there's usually a lack of a boundary lisa turkhurst is our guest this segment. The book, brand new book, her newest number one bestseller, I'm sure. Good Boundaries and Good Buys. You and I both work in the Christian sector of the toxic or the dysfunction or the codependency that someone rolls up under being Christian. You know, like this mislabeling of what Christian is. Like, Christian means doormat or something.

It doesn't. It doesn't. You know, I think there are Bible verses that sometimes are misunderstood and weaponized to make people feel guilty or even to make people drop their boundaries. You know, and I think one of those is, well, didn't Jesus lay down his life for his friends? Yes, Jesus did. And he modeled that for us and he commanded us to do the same. But Jesus laid down his life to accomplish a high and holy purpose. He did not lay down his life to accomplish a high and holy purpose. He did not lay down his life to enable bad behavior to continue. Yeah, the one I get around here a lot is honor your father and mother. Yeah, Dave, but, you know, mom is broke, and she's always spent

everything she makes, and now she wants $8,000 a month. And, you know, and I'm like, well, okay, if your mom is doing cocaine, we can honor the position of motherhood. That's biblical. But we can't honor the cocaine use. That's, you know, it's ridiculous. But in the name of Christian, we're just supposed to, like, turn the other way and have absolutely no common sense.

And that is not any more biblical than fly out of the moon. So fun stuff. I love your new book. I love this. Talk about when it's time to say goodbye. Well, goodbye should be taken steps, not leaps. And never make those decisions in a vacuum. It's always good to get wise counsel around you.

But look, when you are giving access to someone to your capacity and they are demonstrating zero responsibility, you're not going to be able to control them and make them more responsible. So your choice is to draw a boundary around yourself and reduce the access that you've granted them. For example, in finances, you know, Dave, today, you probably won't give out your security passcode to your bank account. Wisely so, right? Because you know you have limited resources in your bank account and you're wise in being responsible. But if you did give that out, then you run the risk of some people not being responsible. So you only give access to people according to their demonstrated level of responsibility. And when, you know, when you've got someone that's just straight up abusive, you don't have a choice but to set, you know, to set it until you can stop this.

You know, we're going to have to have some distance. So if you've been in a relationship with somebody who's been treating you unhealthy, how do you measure change? Once you've set those boundaries, how do you tell that they're changing and how long should it take? Well, trust is built time plus believable behavior. So it is going to take time and you need to be able to see believable behavior. Because remember, the boundaries that you put in place are to keep you sane, safe, stable, and self-controlled.

And so when you have enough emotional fortitude to maybe test the waters and they have demonstrated over time believable behavior, then yes, of course, the boundaries can be flexible. But, you know, a big indication is their behavior. You see, we don't want to accuse people of being a certain way just because they make a mistake. That's what grace is for. But if you are seeing patterns of behavior that are unhealthy, that they are unwilling or incapable of changing, then the boundaries must stay in place. Yeah, absolutely.

Lisa Turkhurst, very wise, very strong lady, good friend of ours for many years now. Gosh, I was trying to count up before we came on there. It's over a decade now, isn't it, Lisa? I think so, Dave. Yeah. Seems like 20 minutes ago, you and I were speaking over at Perry Noble's church, and that's probably been over 10 years ago. I know but now you're aging us so let's not do that oh no here we go again uh lisa turkish the new book is good boundaries and goodbyes

you always want to read everything she writes and this one is absolutely essential there's a lot of heart on these pages. I've already seen it. You don't want to miss it. Good stuff. Thank you, my friend. Glad to have you with us. Thank you.

Always a joy, Dave. This is The Ramsey Show. ស្រូវានដែលានដែលានដែលានដែលានដែលានដែលានដែលានដែលានដែលានដែលានដែលានដែលានដែលានដែលានដែលានដែលានដែលានដែលានដែលានដែលានដែលានដែលានដែលានដែលានដែលានដែលានដែលានដែលានដែលានដែលានដែលានដែលានដែលានដែលានដែលានដែលានដែលានដែលានដែលា� Christina Ellis, number one best-selling author, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Noah and Lauren are on the debt-free stage. Hey, guys, how are you? Well, Dave, how are you? Better than we deserve. Where do y'all live? Charleston, South Carolina. Very cool. Great town. All right. How much debt did you pay off? $645,000. How long did this take? Three and a half years. All right. And your range of income during this time? There was a range, $100,000 to about $300,000. Wow. What do y'all do for a living? I'm a real estate agent and teach group fitness

classes part-time on the side. And I'm an airline pilot and a military pilot as well in the Air Force Reserves. Wow. So you guys were going hard. Yeah. A lot of stuff going on. Busy family, went crazy. What kind of debt was the 645 it was all of our house you paid off your house look at it weird people i love it love it you guys how old are you i'm 36 i'm 40 all right with a paid four house yes sir what's this house worth a 1.2 million dollars it's crazy it's insane how much it appreciated baby steps millionaires house alone just with the house not counting the other stuff yes by the time you're not even 40 wow good for you guys well done well tell us about your journey what got you started on all this Ramsey stuff and

be baby steps millionaires before you're 40 that's so cool thank you thank you yeah um so uh we we got married and uh we kind of knew about the principles. We knew about Dave Ramsey, but we didn't really follow it to a T. So what really set us off is when we went through FPU through our church back in South Carolina. Shout out to Rick and Selena who helped us out with that. That's when we really got intentional, and we really started getting down into some gazelle intensity and really cut back on a lot of things and thought, hey, we're going to pay this thing off. And we really went for it. We're both military veterans. Lauren was in the Air Force. I was active duty and now in the reserves over 20 years of service. And so

one of our things for this, and I saw your show yesterday. I love that you were giving away Financial Peace University to veterans. Hey, we need it. So Lauren and I have a huge heart for military families, military mental health. That's what kind of the next step of our life is going to look like. And so part of this was setting that example for other military folks and really saying, hey, you can do this. This program is for you. This program works for a military family. And just being there to walk with other military folks through this. Cool.

What church was your FPU in? Seacoast Church. Oh, yeah. Yes, sir. Chirats are good friends. Hey, yeah. Yeah, they're great. They're a good family.

Awesome. Wonderful family. Yeah. Well, welcome, guys. This is so cool. That's so cool. And such a powerful story. I love your passion and motivation for, you know, helping military families.

It's in the story. It's in the passion that really people experience that life change. That's just awesome. So what would you tell people is the key? As you're talking to those families, as you have military families listening, what would you tell them? Yeah, absolutely. Lauren and I came up with two words, right? Intentionality and persistence.

You got to be intentional. You got to do the work. As the family last hour said, you got to trust intentional. You got to do the work. As the family last hour said, you got to trust the process, right? Trust the process. And then persistence. Part of our story was, you know, we kind of were Dave Ramsey-ish for a long time. You're going to fail on your budget, right? Your budget's going to come through and you're not going to be where you want to be. You got to get back up. It takes, you know, three months to get that wired down and even after that you're you're going to fail you're going to fall down um you know be the man in the arena like teddy roosevelt says right

be the man that falls down gets dirty gets back up and does it again you got to have that persistence and those two things combined huge power in that okay in three and a half years you two are both high powered personalities during that three and a half years you two are both high-powered personalities during that three and a half years there had to be at least one really good money fight you want you want to take that one is this national this is a you have to tell the truth b you can't throw it under the bus yeah so i will say that we we had a big project we want to do to the the truth. B, you can't throw it under the bus. See, this is a tightrope.

Yeah, so I will say that we had a big project we wanted to do to the house. I'm like, well, you know, we have a really low interest rate. Let's just do the house now. But, you know, like he said, when it came down to it, we really wanted just to bear down and focus and stick to the plan, stick to the process. And I'm really glad we did. So who was stirred up about the remodel?

You? That was me. Because you're a real estate agent. you're looking at houses all day long seeing all this cool stuff yeah it's worth this now but but it will be worth even this much more if we do this yes and you're seeing the cool stuff every day it'll it'll mess you up i mean it's like test driving a car i mean it's very true yeah you know we went to the parade of homes the other day and my wife is like no you can't go over there so there was a little bit of duking out about the remodel now or remodel later you know we're actually that's the next thing that we are currently i mean the original back there that's where the disagreement was yes yes yes correct see she

she saved you yeah she pulled you out of the fire man hey that was pretty cool she's great she owned it she owned it and it's perfect well Well done. Touchdown. I like it. You guys are fun. Because I could tell, though, that you both are getting it. And that gazelle intensity came easy to you because you applied to a lot of areas of your life. You've got the military discipline, the physical discipline. You're a trainer. You know, you said you love doing that on the side. And so there's all of those things come into play with this.

And it all applies it's the same uh mental muscle that you're using that you used to do this man i'm so proud of y'all well done i feel to not have a payment in the world did it freak you out it was fine yeah it was very weird i was like we don't have a mortgage anymore this is crazy it's it still really hasn't sunk in for me even though i mean we know we did it we're so proud we did it but every yeah it's it's very freeing for sure will you ever go back no no no no way no we're free yeah it's uh i mean you talk about all the time it is more it's physically freeing right with the income and stuff like that more than that much more than that it's mentally freeing that the switch that you can't really quantify or put into words is

just an unbelievable thing you walk different you talk different um uh you know your confidence the way the way you interact with your kids with your co-workers it permeates through all these things it's just fantastic wow i'm so proud for y'all way to go good stuff thanks sir and give my friends your pastors a hug when you see them for me i will yeah yeah all right we got a copy of total money makeover for you to give away baby steps millionaires probably give that away since you already are one yeah way to go and financial peace university you've already been through it membership so you got a lot of give it's the live and give bundle for you it's the give and give bundle uh let's bring up the kiddos and introduce

them what are their names and ages all right we got Sophia. She's our soccer star. She's eight years old. We got Gabby, our gymnast. And she is six. Oh, she's ten. Six. Eight. How old are you, man?

Oh, he's six. That's Caleb. That's Caleb. He goes by the little fella. And he's six. All right. Hey, you paid off your house. You got your other numbers right.

I knew I should let Lauren do that, right? I should let Lauren do that one. Come on, Dad. That's fun. Well done, you guys. Well done. We're so proud of you, so proud for you. Live like no one else later.

You could live and give like no one else. Noah and Laura and Sophia, Gabby and Caleb. Charleston, South Carolina, $645,000 paid off. House and everything. House is worth over a million. Did it in three and a half years, making $100,000 to $300,000. And Baby Steps Millionaire is in the process. Count it down.

Let's hear a debt-free scream. All right. Ready? Three, two, one. We're debt-free! We're debt-free! Oh! two one we're debt free i love it man they're impressive that was incredible folks every time you hear someone do the debt-free scream like this uh at some point they had a moment where they said i've had it

and they did that they said you know okay we were ish. And we went, no, we're done. We make too much money to sit here on a stupid mortgage. We're getting rid of it. You have to control what you can control. You want to do what they did, go through Financial Peace University. It's the proven step-by-step plan. It is the process that you submit yourself to. Nearly 10 million people have gotten out of debt, learning how to budget, build wealth, be unbelievably generous. Start Financial Peace University at RamseySolutions.com slash FPU. RamseySolutions.com

slash FPU. Seacoast Church that they go to is a wonderful church. We've spoken down there many times and done our events down there and all kinds of things there in Charleston with them. It's a second-generation pastor. Current Surratt generation is the second generation doing it.

And they're a wonderful, wonderful family, wonderful pastors. And it's a big church, really successful, very well run, very well done. Good stuff, you guys. I love it, I love it, I love it. This is The Ramsey Show. ស្រូវានប់ពីប្រូវានប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ព� Our scripture of the day, 1 Corinthians 15, 58. Therefore, my dear brothers and sisters, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord

because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain. Billy Jean King said, Champions keep playing until they get it right. Roderick's with us in Houston, Texas. Hey, Roderick, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave and Christina, thanks for taking my call. Sure, what's up? So, my wife and I are on Baby Step 3,

and last year my job promised me a $20,000 bonus if I stayed on. I was supposed to be getting this month, but now I think there's a chance I might be getting fired later this week. So when I talk to my boss, I'm trying to figure out how do I convince them to still give me the bonus? Why are you getting fired? Well, I'm new at the role.

The reason I'm getting the bonuses in the first place is because they're laying off part of the department I work in. But instead of laying me off, they gave me a promotion, and I'm coming on too slow. They want me to be a little bit better. I've had a conversation with my boss in August, saying that he wasn't happy with my performance. He said I had until October to get better.

Just had a conversation with him last week, still not happy. And now I've got a meeting tomorrow, so I think he might be pulling the trigger on firing me. I'm sorry. That's scary. So you're asking how to get them to give you the 20K anyway, even though you didn't work out in the role? I stayed on so I could get it finish up baby step 3

and I actually was going to leave since they were laying us off but they agreed to give me the 20k if I stayed but if I get fired obviously I won't get it so the transition to the new way of doing things when it's done

is when they owe the money it was scheduled to be in October but it's taken longer to get things the money. It was scheduled to be in October, but it's taken longer to get things how they want it. So they've extended that through December. So I would need to stay through the end of December to get the money. What is the line for when things are done? Like, is it a very clear line, a project-based thing, or is it just kind of something a bit subjective that the bosses have decided? No, it's whenever the outsource. We were outsourcing the work, so whenever the new company takes over the work,

that's when they're going to pay out the bonus. But they have a deadline of December 31st. Gotcha. Okay. How big a company is this? A couple billion a year. Okay. All right. I don't think there's a perfect sentence or three that's going to cause a couple of billion a year company to decide to give you money if they've already decided not to. So I don't think I have that key on my key ring that I could loan to you. What I would do is finish well, and it doesn't sound like,

it sounds like they moved you into a role and then did not give you the support to cause you to grow into the role. Instead, just stood you over there on an island, and then they're shocked that the island is sinking. It sounds like leadership's piss poor to me, but, I mean, the way you're describing this, if we were confronting you about not performing here, you would have heard a lot more than two conversations since August,

and we would have been saying, what can we do to come alongside you and teach you to ride this horse because apparently you keep falling off of it and we want to maybe get you on the side in the saddle and stay there and we would be talking about that and then if you just kept falling off anyway we you would have known it wouldn't be any question you're usually when someone is leaving here they're positive that the next meeting they're gone because it's been like a whole bunch of discussion up to that point so that's what's bothering me about this and that's what makes me think there's nothing you can really say to these folks what i always do in any negotiation is and that's what this is uh if

he says you're gone you say um okay thank you for letting me try this and uh i'm sorry that it didn't work out um i gave it my all but i just did i didn't do it i i'm not really even in disagreement with you i'm ready to move on i was ready to move on back then you guys asked me to stay and offered me 20 000 to stay um and you know just retell the story but it's all you know take own it in other words don't blame them and then uh and then just say okay so what do you guys have in mind as severance, given that I stayed because you were going to give me $20,000 extra? Is that in the severance? And they go, oh, yeah, yeah, we're going to give you four months,

and we're going to give you the $20,000. You go, okay, right? And thank you. That's very generous of you. I appreciate that. Or if they say, no,'t get the twenty thousand you would say um well you know you promised it to me if i stayed and i stayed and i didn't quit you're asking me to leave so are you sure that you can't do something about that and i just ask questions about that and under you know i've always heard under the underneath the negotiation if you just have this underneath the words you're saying if

you'll have this phrase running in your mind that says no matter what they say you in your mind you're going that's not good enough that's not good that's not good enough that's not good enough and so what i learned to do is never get in a back and forth on the number so we meet in the middle you know you know i'm gonna sell you the car for 20,000 no it's 24,000 we'll meet in the middle of 22 and uh when when you know when i say 24 and you say 20 i don't say let's meet in the middle i say that's not good enough and then i let you squirm and so kind of want you to throw a across the tennis ball back across the desk at him and say that's not good enough in some manner of speaking and that could

be it could sound like hey um you know the 20 000 was really promised and i stayed and i was willing to stay and help you guys get this through i understand that i didn't do it the way you wanted it done and that you've made a decision and i'm not questioning your decision but i stayed so is there anything we can do with the 20 000 see that's another way of saying that's not good enough you follow me and so but but i think you own it i don't think you blame anybody i don't think you uh are are nasty or unkind or like you guys are crooks or something like that because I don't think they are I think you're right I think they have the right to fire you and and they have the right to not pay you this and depending on the circumstances around here would

we pay that maybe maybe not it would depend on the circumstances more than we can get to in the radio call here. So do you think if they don't fire him tomorrow, let's say they just call him in tomorrow and it's just another meeting where they're like, we're disappointed. Do you think he should start looking for a new job? Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Just as I got a feeling December 31st, they're all going bye bye.

Anyway, as soon as I get this handed off to the outsource, it sounds like it's I think the writing's on the wall. But the other thing is, if they don't't fire him is i'd be asking a lot of questions about asking okay i get it that i'm not doing this the right way what can uh you know can some of you guys come alongside and teach me and show me and model for me give me some support on this and show me how to do this because my job as the leader when i've got a team member uh you know facing crap is uh my job is to take out some of their blockers and if their blocker is themselves it's to add some tools to their tool belt uh show them how to do it and uh sit with them till they do it and uh walk them through that and so uh uh you can't just go um run faster you know i don't know how to run

run faster but i don't know how to run run faster you know that's that doesn't work you know it's just and and it's like that's not that's not leading that's corporate america crap and it sounds like that's what you're dealing with dude i'm sorry sorry you're facing that you got to have a little knot in your stomach going in there in the morning that's kind of scary but you know the interesting thing is when you get home tomorrow night you'll find out they fired you they didn't kill you and your life goes on that's my point your life goes on and you know i'm just getting ready to leave anyway so the only question is whether i get this 20k and um you know we always talk about when you're out of debt and you have your emergency fund and they walk in and go, well, we're going to have to lay you off.

And like, oh, good. How much is the severance? I was getting ready to go open a business and kick y'all's butt anyway. So how much is the severance? Let's get him a copy of Paycheck to Purpose by Ken Coleman. Oh, good. Yeah, I want to hear his voice. Like, be excited when he talks about his job.

Because even right now, even if he gets this job, if he continues in this job, he's just, it doesn't sound like he's going to love it. It's a crummy environment. Yeah, let's get him something he loves, a job he's passionate about. Yeah, we'll send you Paycheck to Purpose. Let's get going.

That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. Thanks to Austin Benz, Zach Andrew, and James in the booth, the booth dudes. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Have you been inspired to make a change with your money? Want to know where to start? Take our three-minute money quiz to get a plan you can follow.

Go to ramseysolutions.com and search for Get Started to get a plan for your money.