The Ramsey Show - App - Should I Find a New Job or Go Back to School? (Hour 1)

Episode Date: August 10, 2021

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5, 4, 3, 2, 1, GO! Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author and host of The Ken Coleman Show, is my co-host today as we take your questions about your life, your money, and with Ken here, your career. All about jobs and all about careers and all about what you're going to do on the income side of this money equation,

as well as we'll talk to you about your life and your money. Open phones at 888-825-5225. John is in New York City to start off this hour. Hey, John, how are you? Hi, Dave. I'm doing well. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Awesome. I had a quick question as far as I currently live in a co-op and within the next

three or five years, I plan on moving out into a house. So I'm looking at holding onto the co-op as a rental property. However, I just don't know if the maintenance that I'm also paying for the co-op kind of excludes this as being a useful rental property. I know there's different values that you could work the numbers on, but just for the simple fact of a maintenance alone, which is actually more than the mortgage that I pay, I have a 30-year mortgage, I'm sorry to say. So I want to know your opinion on that. Is it best that I just sell the co-op when I'm ready to buy a house, or should I actually dig deeper into the numbers to find out? Well, what we want you to move towards, because it's the shortest distance to wealth, is to

being 100% debt-free, house and everything. And it sounds like that keeping this co-op means that you're going to have debt on the co-op and probably on the new house as well, right? Correct. Yeah, so I'm going to move you away from that. I would not buy rental property or invest in rental property directly or indirectly until I can do it with cash after my home is paid for and that's what we teach now that's very slow it takes a lot of time but then you don't get burnt on the properties it also sounds like that this particular property even if it were paid for and your home to buy would be paid for still might be a questionable rental because this maintenance factor might offset any fun that you'd be having cash flow wise right yeah so that's that's pretty much

yeah that's what i imagined the ideal situation would be within three or five years me and my current girlfriend would be married and we would fund the house. I mean, it would be, in New York, it's tough to pay cash for what we would be looking for. So I just figured I'm living in a co-op. By that time, I didn't know if I should refinance the 15-year, even as a rental. But it sounds like overhaul is a move that you need to make. I would sell it, and I would take the equity to move towards the house and then have a game plan for getting the house paid off as soon as possible. And then start talking about saving up and investing in rental real estate.

But most of the time, you don't move out of your property into your home and turn the old property into a rental. Because most of the time, that means you're going to involve extra debt to pull that off. Yeah, and it sounds like from a cash flow standpoint, he could be breaking even or losing money given all the maintenance stuff that he began to identify there. In addition to that. In addition to everything you gave him. Yeah, and I mean, New York real estate values obviously are, it's a unique market that we're talking about in Manhattan in particular.

And so, you know, probably could make up a ton of what he didn't make on cash flow with increase in value. Yes. Assuming that they don't continue destroying that town politically with COVID and cops and everything else. It's a mess. I mean, it's the worst it's been in decades. And I'm a huge fan of New York City, but it's a mess i mean it's the worst it's been in decades and i'm a huge fan of new york city but it's a mess right now absolutely and uh so you know it's politics matter when it comes to economics around real estate sure does economics around your businesses and that kind of stuff so that that's what's in play there so a lot of reasons to not keep this co-op hey thanks for the call open phones at

888-825-5225 kathleen is with us in milwaukee hi kathleen how are you oh i'm doing well thank you um i you know i've been listening long enough to know that roth is the rate is the way to go. My husband has had just a traditional 403B for several years, and now work does offer the Roth, and I think my understanding is that if he just stopped paying into the Roth, or paying into the traditional, he could open a Roth, and work's match would go into the traditional, and then the stuff that he puts in would go into the Roth. I just wanted to see. We don't have the extra funds right now to pay the taxes, but I just wanted to see if we should just do that,

just stop the traditional, start the Roth, or if interest is better, just keeping it compounding with what we're going to make. No, it does not affect your end result. It does not affect compounding at all. Two piles that are equal in size to both the piles added together compound at exactly the same rate. $100,000 in two accounts compounds as $200,000 at exactly the same rate as two hundred thousand in one account. OK, does not change the math. OK, so you just don't change that at all.

But you're right. You don't want to activate and pay taxes on all of the money that's sitting there. So we'll leave what he's done to this point in traditional. And you're required to receive the match in traditional going forward. But from this point forward, his contribution should be in a Roth. And, yeah, you're doing that exactly, exactly right. So, Ken, it's kind of a rock, paper, scissors thing. Match beats Roth beats traditional.

And that's what she's already figured out. Yeah. Yeah. And it's what she's already figured out. Yeah. Yeah. And it always works that way. You know, it's like when people figure out the real benefits of what? When we get into the Roth, it's because of the tax implications. Tax-free. That's right.

When you look up and you've got a million dollars in your account. Huge difference. And it's all tax-free versus it's all taxable. There you go. That's a $250,000, $350,000 per million issue. That's a lot of money. So that word Roth is worth hundreds of thousands of dollars a letter. So, yeah, you don't R-O-T-H.

That's 400 grand right there. At least, yeah, when you do it over a period of your working lifetime, it's a lot of money. It's a lot of money. Not to mention, I just hate taxes, Dave. So it has the added benefit, not just the zeros, but I just feel better. I don't have to pay taxes. I'm just less pissed off. Essentially is what it boils down to.

It has the emotional and financial benefit. That's it. There's a spiritual benefit. I don't stay angry all the time. Yeah, that's good. I love it. That's fun. All right, open phones here.

Ken Coleman, my co-host today, host of The Ken Coleman Show, now heard on over 75 radio stations, Sirius XM, as a podcast, and on YouTube. Everywhere great radio stations or great radio shows are heard, you can pick him up. And he's always talking about your life and your career and finding your dream gig. New book is out called Paycheck to Purpose. It's on presale right now. We will ship them to you in the fall when we actually put them on the street, and you can get a bargain on it right now with a bunch of add-ons.

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Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Here on the Ramsey Show. Jennifer is with us in Edmond, Oklahoma. Hi, Jennifer. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. How can we help? Hey, big fan. So, I am feeling lost with my job. I just started a new job about three months ago.

The last couple have not worked out. And I'm trying to decide if I should go back to school for counseling or an MBA or just look for another job. Okay. So we've got two options there that are very different, counseling or an MBA. I hear you laughing here, which is okay. But, I mean, where did those choices come from? Are those just out of nowhere or something you've been thinking about for a while? Thinking about for a long time. Which one is the longest in your head and heart? That's the thing.

I can't decide. I feel like counseling is more what I'm really good at. Okay. If I could talk to people all day, that's what I'd do. Okay. Now, there are the clues. So let's start with talent. So we talk about talent, passion, and mission. These are the three indicators that every human being has. When we talk about stage one of my seven stages to do

what you're born to do, it's get clear. So let's look at the indicators. Talent. So what talents do you think a counselor needs to have that are non-negotiable? What would you say? Give me two or three. Like empathy, listening, being really good with people. Great. Okay. So I would call that communication, connection, and compassion, right? All right. So you've got those in spades. If I interviewed everybody that knows you, would they say Jennifer's really gifted in those areas? Yes or no? Yes. All right. So doesn't it also stand to reason, Jennifer, that the things that we're good at, those talents, we actually enjoy using those talents? You said so beautifully, if I could listen to people all day long, that would be great. But it's not just the listening part.

What fires you up when you're listening to people? What happens next after you listen to them? Kind of coaching them along, giving them advice, just connecting with people. Fantastic. This is easy, Dave. We don't really need to talk much more with Jennifer because it's very obvious the type of work that you would love to do.

I want to know the why, though. Is there something from your story, whether you experienced it or you observed this, that it's been a long time of thinking about counseling others and being a guide to them. What's in your story that gives you the why behind this? Well, I just know that I really want to help others. And I know I had a family member die from mental struggles a few years ago. And I've struggled with mental health, and I know so many people.

And I just know I can help them. I know you can. And that's what I want you to hold on to right now because in the days ahead as you begin to strike a path forward, you're going to have times of fear and doubt. And you've got to kind of strike those, just cross them out, right, align right through them, whatever the voice is, and go back to the why that you just shared with us.

So not the MBA. The answer is no to the MBA, but yes to, what do I have to do to get qualified to be a counselor to serve those people? Okay. So you got all this. Why so many jobs in the last while? Why are you bouncing around? I am currently doing engineering, and the remoteness has been really hard.

Not talking to anybody has been really tough. Oh, so they got you on work from home. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Not to mention, it's not work that you love. You don't love the work. You just kind of fell into it, and you're just trying to search for something instead of. You have an engineering degree?

Yep. Yeah. Okay. How old are you? 38. Okay. But why did you bounce around? What were the other three?

Why did you leave the other ones? It's been at the same company. The last one, it just didn't fit. I mean, another one, and I agreed to it, and I thought it would be more people interaction. It has not been, and it just has not been a good fit. Yeah. So now we've got to switch gears,

and you've got to go get educated to be a counselor. So you've got to do your homework on that. What's that going to cost? How long is that going to take? I have them. That's not an issue for us. um it's just not knowing what to do now well what to do now is is you got to plan this thing so you know are you going to go full-time you're going to go part-time how's it going to affect uh the next decision which is am i working my way through am i going full-time those are the

things you got to pick a school do not get sucked into the brand name decision nobody cares where you get your counseling degree nobody okay do you understand what i'm saying so don't get sucked into well number of times someone sits down with a marriage counselor and say our mental health counselor and says uh before we start i'd like to know where you graduated from is zero yeah that's right it's zero so the only thing that matters is the quality of the information, the quality of the knowledge. Okay. Yeah. So, I mean, when I sit down with my doc, I don't know where my doctor went to get med school.

Right. I didn't even ask him. It's like, was it bragging rights that he went to? My doctor went to, who gives a crap? Are you well? That's right. Are you okay? That's true.

Did he fix your broken whatever? Yeah. That's what matters here. Can you get the help? and don't fall into that and and you know take a take the track uh as a 38 year old that is not the traditional college track as well something that uh shortcuts you straight into that you got an engineering degree maybe there's some stuff you can overlay on this and and get straight into that master's program pretty quick uh because you'll have to get a master's in every state in order to be licensed as a counselor. Ashley's in Jacksonville, Florida.

Hey, Ashley, what's up? Hi, guys. Thank you so much for taking my call. I just have a quick question trying to figure out if we bought too much house in 2020. My husband and I got to Baby Step six in 2018 and 2019 paying off our debt and paying off about 30% of our house. And then decided we wanted to find a better home, home for family, somewhere that we could be as intentional as we were, but actually enjoy where we were living. But we got back into debt doing it, which is terrible. Please don't yell at me.

Um, we got about $35,000 into debt. Um, and we just paid that off last month. So we are happily in baby step three. Um, but now that we're moving towards baby step four and the percentages of like how much my house payment is obviously going to go, it's going to be more of my income since I'm going to be putting 15% investment and i'm just trying to figure out if we bought too much house well the investment does not affect your housing formula 15 going into investments doesn't affect that what's your gross pay or your your net pay not counting what goes into 401k not counting what goes into health insurance but just net of taxes net of taxes What's your household take-home pay? And that's, sorry, that's after taxes.

I'm not great with the lingo. After taxes. What's your... Yeah, after taxes, I don't know the annual income, but it's about $8,000 a month. Okay, and how much is your house payment? $21.62. That's like a fourth. I mean, what21.62. That's like a fourth. I mean, what's the problem?

It's almost a fourth. I wasn't sure, you know, because we're about to get to Baby Step 4, and I was worried once the 15% started coming out, obviously that dramatically changes how much we could be putting towards the house, and our biggest goal is kind of getting that thing paid off. Well, you're going to put 15% at baby step four of your income towards retirement, but that does not affect the calculation of your house payment being 25% of your take-home pay because your take-home pay is not what comes out.

Take-home pay means after taxes. Absolutely. So you're making $100,000. So you're probably making $130,000 a year gross. Does that sound about right? Yes. Okay. Yeah, that sounds right.

And so you're fine on this. There's nothing wrong here. You're going to put 15% away and then you're going to have to begin to chip away at the mortgage. Beyond that, as you work through Baby Steps 5 and 6, kids college and anything extra you can find, you put on the house. But your house payment is not going

to keep you from putting 15% down or 15% into retirement. It's just not, you're not house poor, not even close. So I think what you did was you took a step up and it's a bigger payment than you're emotionally used to. And it just smacked you around a little bit, which is not a bad thing that you recognized it because the people that are scary are the ones that don't realize that there was an emotional shift here. And ouch, you can get that sneak up on you and get you. So good stuff.

Hey, thank you for the call. Open phones here. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Again, author of the brand new book on pre-sale, From Paycheck to Purpose, The Clear Path to Doing Work You Love. You can pick up a copy at RamseySolutions.com, and it'll be shipped to you with all kinds of goodies as soon as it actually comes out. But it's on pre-sale right now, which means there's a bargain around it. Only $20, and you get about $150 worth of goodies with it. Be sure and check it out.

RamseySolutions.com Work doesn't have to suck. There's a reason you can't shake the feeling you were meant for more than just another J-O-B. 61% of people aren't even engaged at work, let alone doing work they love. That's why Ken Coleman, America's career coach and national best-selling author, wrote his new book, From Paycheck to Purpose, The Clear Path to Doing Work You Love. And it's available for pre-order right now. If you're looking to change jobs, get hired, or trying to figure out the work you were

uniquely made to do, you need this book. Ken walks you through the proven stages that landed him his dream job and thousands of others. Plus, if you pre-order From Paycheck to Purpose today, you'll receive our Get Hired bonus pack valued at over $100 for free. It includes the audio book, e-book, resume, templates, the Get Hired digital course, and more. Pre-order from Paycheck to Purpose at Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage,

Joy and her mom, Ruth, are with us. Hey, guys, how are you? Very good. Thank you. And you? Better than I deserve. It's an honor to have you. Where do you guys live? Chihuahua, Mexico. It's about three hours from El Paso, Texas. Oh, yeah. Wow. So an international debt-free screen right here. Very cool. So how much did you pay off? About $119,000.

$119,000. And how long did you pay off? About $119,000. $119,000. And how long did this take? About four years. Four years. Okay. And what was the range of your income during this time? Was it personal debt or what? It was a business.

We were self-employed. It was about $250,000 average. Okay. All right. So what kind of business was this? It's a tree nursery. My mom and brother and I, we have a tree nursery. We grow and sell trees.

Oh, okay. Fun. What kind of trees? Anything, fruit trees, evergreen trees, bushes, whatever you want. Good. All right. So tell me the story. What happened here?

$119,000 of business debt paid off in four years. Yes. When I was a teenager, it started about before that. When I was a teenager, my dad about before that, when I was a teenager, my dad at the time was listening to different people and he told us kids, I have three brothers,

to listen to Dave Ramsey. And you were talking about spending, well, living on nothing and spending less money and I thought, well, we already live on nothing. We had no vacations and nothing of that sort,

not really. And then, so we forgot about you Live on nothing. We had no vacations and nothing of that sort, not really. And then, so we forgot about you. And then end of 2016, I started doing the business papers, the expenses and all of that. And I realized how very messy and unorganized it was, just terrible. And so I started Googling anything I could find on business advice. And this one day your name popped into my head I believe was the Holy Spirit that gave it to me and so I started listening to you searching for you and I loved it I got very excited wanted to get organized and

then about two weeks after that my dad got diagnosed with bone cancer, and he did not have insurance. So all the money went to that directly, right away. We couldn't pay off anything. Then in 2017, we started paying off a little bit, but the majority we paid off 2019 to 2021. And I take it since he's not here, he didn't survive the bone cancer. No, he died two years ago. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

You guys have been through a lot. Yes. So the kiddos step in and help run the business then, if that's what it amounts to. Yes, they did. I was very thankful for that. Amen. Yes. Amen.

And obviously very capable. Yes. Yes. And then some. Capable plus, yeah. Very good. Well, good job. So a horrible way to end up in charge, but you're in charge at this point.

And, Joy, and you start hammering the debt, I guess is what you're saying. Yeah. Yeah. I was very mad at the debt. Very mad. And so, but your advice, it was very practical for us. I was expecting for looking for business advice, something high where I would not be able to reach. And it was so common sense.

So thank you for that. I really learned a lot. We all did. My brothers as well. They got very excited about it. Now, I don't get a lot of calls from Mexico. Did you call in? Yes, I did.

How long ago? I'd say about one to two years. Okay. This is coming back to me. Wow. You were working. You were starting to work the plan. Chihuahua and tree nursery, yeah, that's starting to ring a bell a little bit.

I mean, if it was somewhere else, I might not have remembered it because it all kind of runs together. But that does ring a bell. So you called in a couple of years ago. Yes. Was that nice to you? You were very nice. Do you remember what your question was regarding? Yes.

I wanted to ask about the business exactly because it did not bring much profit or hardly any. And then so I was wondering how in the world are we going to pay this debt off if we do not have any profit? And was it either to sell the business or to... Yeah, I was clueless what to do with it. And you mentioned if the profit was going to be a bit more, if we could get the profit a little bit higher to pay off the debt, we should do that.

Otherwise, sell it. And so we tried that and it worked. We did pay off. So you got to keep going. What did you do to juice that profit? Actually just getting organized. We had so much money going out everywhere that we didn't even know about

and me and my brother, the one that's with me now working on it and she as well, we just all very intensely tracked all the expenses and income and that gave us a little wiggle room. We had been very disorganized. Yes, and with my husband being sick, the nursery was left behind.

So when he died, we started organizing it again. It was very overwhelming to start. How long did it take to kind of get the chaos out? Six months or a year? A year or maybe even two. Yeah. Yeah. But it's a lot more peaceful to run it now without the chaos,

with systems and organization, right? Yes. Yes, and we had a lot of trouble in the meantime trying to pay off debt. Like the trucks were old, they were breaking down, and flat tires and and the irrigation system was wasn't working we had to fix that again and again and yeah a lot of hard work but you made it yes here you are with no debt how's it feel very amazing and you come all the way to tennessee yes to do your debt-free screen. Well, we are honored. We're honored.

You ladies are your family, your heroes for fighting your way through this. That's pretty incredible. Great entrepreneurial story. It really is. It's fascinating to see how they turned it around. Just organization, getting control of the outflow, the expenses. That's the story. Pretty amazing stuff. And this has got big-time potential, I'm guessing now, that you've got this thing running well i really hope so that's what i'm aiming for good for you well

she has a profit now that's a profit is a good start yeah it's a good thing it enables you to fix flat tires on trucks easier yeah oh my goodness we also cash flowed my youngest brother's wedding also in the middle of it all. So how many brothers and sisters? How many siblings? Three brothers. Three brothers and you. All right.

Are you the oldest? I'm in the middle. You're in the middle. Okay. Well, actually, there's one boy. He's the oldest. He manages all the nursery. She manages the expenses and all the money. her she has a twin brother which we have

here and then the youngest brother he works for his uncle right now okay all right cool that's wonderful yes great family business so what do you tell people the key joy you did it what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is perseverance and determination that's it i could not have done it without i yeah a lot of stubbornness in a good way. Because it was hard. It was very hard. Plus trusting God. Amen.

Learning on a higher level to trust God. And we also wanted to give. Like during that time, all of it, when my dad was sick, there were so many people. They were generous and they came and visited and just so willing to give. That looked so beautiful to me. We hope to be that way too. We want to give and be kind to other people. I wish my Spanish was as good as your English. Where did you learn your English, both of you? High school, from little on. Just part of the curriculum?

Yeah. Okay. Wow. Very cool. Wonderful. Very fun. So proud of you, ladies and gentlemen. Very well done. Very well done.

Well, we've got a copy of the Legacy Journey for you. That's for sure what you've been involved in here is legacy-type work, and that's the next chapter in this story for it to continue. Very cool. Best debt-free scream in a while. Yeah. That's pretty neat. Love this story. Very neat.

Very neat. And also a copy of the Total Money Makeover for you to give away to someone. Thank you. And if you prefer it in Spanish, both of them are available in Spanish, just to hand out to friends or whatever. That's happy to help you either way, whatever is good for you. So excellent, excellent, excellent. All right.

It's Joy and her mom ruth from chihuahua mexico they paid off the nursery they paid off the the uh the tree business and made it man absolutely amazing 119 000 paid off in four years 250 000 a year top line on the business count it down let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! And worth a trip to Nashville. That's fun.

I love it. So beautiful. So well done. This is The Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. This is The Ramsey Show. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Amy's in Dallas. Hi, Amy. How are you?

I'm good, Mr. Ramsey. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up in your world? Well, okay, so I've been very blessed with financial wellness, mainly because ever since I was about five, I was always asking my dad questions. And so he taught me a lot of your principles, really. So when I first graduated college, I figured out what I needed to live on and saved all the rest, pretty much. So what that trickled down to is I'm now married, I have two kids, and I had been investing in my company stock for a long time thinking this is going to be my kids' college fund until I actually have them because I can't put a 529 on a blank person.

But now that I have a good chunk of money in there because I didn't take it out because it was just skyrocketing, so I figured I'd ride the wave. But now I have a, my daughter's five and my son is two. I'm thinking, you know, maybe I should withdraw some of this and pull the trigger and pay off the house which is our only debt and front load both of their 529s so that i don't have to think about it ever again you have enough stock to do both of those things it's about 450,000 so yes and how much is all do you own your home 70,000 yeah you need to do this tonight okay i figured you'd probably say that but i was just a little worried about the tax implications of a big lump sum of money getting being given to me well what do you think the uh what do you think your gain on it is what do you have invested in

this 400 000 yeah honestly i think the gains are like 300 and i keep in mind i don't have to sell all of it because obviously if i front load a 529 i could put like 90k in one and 30k in the other and based on calculations i think that'll be okay when they turn 18 um and then 70k on the house and so i should still have like 200k left over in there but on the gains of that 200k especially if i strategically sell like not the ones that were purchased within the last year uh you know i think my gains on it it's probably a hundred thousand dollars yeah you yeah you select the it's not that big a deal it's a 15 capital gains rate you've owned it more than a year and so it's 15 grand per hundred grand

it's not that big a deal okay so yeah So, yeah, you need to do this yesterday. And when you're selling it, you select the shares that you last purchased. Last in, first out is the accounting principle on this, meaning that the most expensive shares, the ones you have the most invested in, will create the least gain. And that should be the last ones you purchased so that you know as you know as you're and then as you're dealing with it you want to go with last in first out okay then what do i do after that because now it's like well then you have two hundred thousand dollars sitting in stock still do you want that i don't i don't invest

in single stocks and i don't advise people to more than 10% of their net worth. So is your net worth over $200,000? I mean, I'm sorry, over $2 million. Over $2 million? $1.3, I think. So I think you're a little heavy in a single stock even after we execute the debt-free on the house and the kids at 529s are set up. I'd probably liquidate some of that and move towards mutual funds.

I'm not as big a player as you are. I don't want that much risk. Claire is in Denver, Colorado. Hey, Claire, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave, thanks for taking my call. Sure, what's up? Okay, so I have a little bit of like a double life going

on. I am an accountant and I'm also a professional MMA fighter and I'm having some problems. You're an accountant. Wait a minute. I don't want to drive past that too quick. You're an accountant by day and an MMA fighter by night. Yeah. It's like a superhero.

Yeah, like a superhero. Yeah. Like a superhero. Clark Kent. It's normally a good balance, but, uh, yeah. Yeah. So, so what happened this week is, um, so I had a little bit of a head trauma, nothing super serious, but it was unexpected and I was having some side effects. So I had to go see a specialist.

Um, so I went to see a neurologist and basically, um, all of a sudden I had a $2,500 bill, uh, and that's for my whole treatment. Like it was actually a very reasonable price and whatnot. Um, but I only had a thousand dollars in my emergency fund. So I used that and then I had to unfreeze the credit card that I was paying off and put the balance on that card, which, you know, is not something I was wanting to do. Um, and I'm still paying off debt. I've got about $22,000 left in my debt. Uh, so yeah, so at this point, um, I'm just trying to figure out if maybe I need to pad my emergency fund a little more for the time being, uh, before I can get to that third baby step or how I should handle this. Wow.

Okay, so head trauma is not an unexpected event when you are an MMA fighter. Right. That's a predictable event. Right? I mean, logically. Yeah. i've never participated but i've watched what you do and i'm scared of you right now so so uh uh have you made money fighting so i'm at this point right now um i'm actually in a really good spot i fight for a good organization but uh the way mma works is you're making very little money until you're making a

lot of money so right now um from fighting i make about 15 grand a year okay let's bank let's bank that as a business let's bank that to the side as a business and hope you break even with medical bills. Right. So run your life on your accounting income and set the MMA aside as a small business idea and say this small business is going to break even if we're lucky. Okay, okay. And then you can just bank that money. And instead of changing the baby steps, let's just qualify this as a small business

because it legitimately is. It's a side hustle. And so how long have you been doing this? I'm interested. I've been doing this for I think about six years altogether. I had a long amateur career, and I'm a professional. So it's been a journey. So how long have you been pro?

I've been pro for about, I think it's only been about two years right now so far. How old are you? I'm 25. Okay. So you figure you got, what, five years in the ring more? You know, I'm hoping 10 more years. So that's also why i'm taking this brain stuff real seriously and you know after that i want to do accounting for the rest of my

life so yeah so you really can't afford to get your eggs scrambled doing that then right yeah exactly i just wonder i've got to ask this is quick do you allow the frustration of the accounting to get you mad enough to punch somebody or do you love the accounting you know i really love the accounting i honestly i feel like i'm living the dream i love good for you that's great that is so fun yeah and so you're so you're you're probably a very technical fighter then yes yes exactly yeah very cool well fun claire well that's neat first first mma fighter question we've had so you're the first i'll have more moving forward especially when the money starts rolling in so i'll probably remember the call because it's it's it's not one

i get all the time so you call back anytime we can help. That's interesting. Very fun. Aren't you a little scared right now, Ken? No, there's no question. In fact, I just wonder how long I could last in the ring with her. I think three seconds. It's too late. Too late. Yeah, it's over. Not until you finish the sentence.

Right. You'll be done. Me too. As long as it would take for her to catch up to me is the real answer. That's right. How long before she could tackle you as you ran away? Because once she got her hands on me, it's over. I'd probably faint, tap out from just head hitting the ground.

She wouldn't even have to strike me, I don't think, is the real answer. They don't allow guns in there, so I'm not going in there. I'm too scared. I'm just really scared. That's fun. That is awesome. Oh, man, I'm a scared. I'm just really scared. That's fun. That is awesome. Oh, man. I'm a tough lady.

Yeah, that's an interesting way of looking at something, though. I mean, she's looking at this business through the eyes of an accountant. What an interesting thing. What an interesting thing. That's very cool. Well, that puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. Ken Coleman, my co-host, James Childs, my producer, Kelly Daniel, my associate producer and phone screener. I'm Dave Ramsey Show.

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