The Ramsey Show - App - Should I Go Into an Apprenticeship Program? (Hour 1)

Episode Date: October 16, 2019

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us. Open phones at 888-825-5225. We're glad you're here. 888-825-5225.

Starting this hour off is New Jersey. Jeanette is calling. Hi, Jeanette. Hi, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. How are you? Great.

So I'm calling because at the moment, my husband and I are having discussions about what to do with future bonuses that are to come at the ending of the year along with next season's income tax. We're kind of at a standstill. We're at step two, paying off debt. We're $109,000 into debt. Our combined total income is about $135,000 annual. He's under the assumption that we should open up a small business. I think we should attack the debt that we have. So I was just wondering, what's your take on this?

Well, the only way you would open up a small business is if you made more money than you put into it almost immediately because right now you're broke exactly and you don't go invest ten thousand dollars that you hope to get back over two years you don't have that kind of money but if you can open up a small business for a thousand dollars and make two thousand dollars next month and the next month and the next month off of it because you bought a lawnmower now you're mowing grass i'm okay with that that's fine but it's got it's got it's got to have a it's got to have an instantaneous turnaround on the money okay so he's a cdl he has a cdl so he basically wants to buy a trailer and to move cars right so it's like we're going to use twenty thousand dollars that we get so then buy a trailer no you, how does that make any sense? No, it doesn't make any sense. No, you're not going to make your twenty thousand dollars back anytime soon.

OK, it'll be three years. I mean, it's a side hustle. And, you know, to be doing this on the side, I mean, you're not going to make your money back for two or three years and you can't afford that. You got one hundred thousand dollars in debt. No, that's not that's not what i'm talking about but if if if he could buy a trailer for a thousand dollars and make twenty thousand dollars over the next three months yeah i'd do that but he can't exactly okay i am trying to shake some sense into him but he's under like the only way to get out of this faster is to invest somewhere else. And I'm like, how does that work? Okay, he doesn't get out of it faster when it takes too long to get the money back. I'm with him.

If he can get out of it faster, that's great. But what you're describing is not faster. I mean, what's he make on a load of cars? So he's hoping to make a profit of about $1,000 a week if he buys his trailer. Yeah. Okay. So it'd take him six or if he buys his trailer. Yeah. Okay. So it would take him six or eight months to break even. Mm-hmm.

Hoping. Hoping, exactly. Yeah. $1,000 a week. So he would quit his job? Yeah. He said he would hire a driver to basically run the load while he would still work his full-time job.

Mm-hmm. driver to basically run the load while he would still work his full-time job. This is a $50,000 a year business. I don't think so. I think he wishes he could get $1,000 a week, but I don't think he thinks he can. He's dreaming. Okay. a week but i don't think he thinks he can he's dreaming okay okay now again if you can turn the money around really really fast um i i'm not believing in this i don't believe it i don't think you go from cold no business at all to a thousand dollars a week and keep that trailer rolling full time the logistical measure of that and getting enough customers in the pipeline for

that to happen and if he's got somebody standing there ready to sign a contract to pay him $1,000 a week, we'll talk about it, but I don't think he does. No, he doesn't. He's just hoping he can go gather up the clients. Yeah, and since it's not a for-sure thing, I don't think it's the best move for us to make with money that we're expecting to get. Exactly. I agree. Now, again, I'm going to go back one more time.

If you can get some better proof that this is not a pipe dream, that this is actually occurring, a six-month turn on that money is not bad. If you can make $52,000 a year and you only pay $20,000 to do that as a side hustle and you don't give up your day job, that's not a bad turn. I probably would do that, but my problem is I don't believe him. Okay. And so if I had better evidence in front of me that he actually could do that and not just wishes he could do that while he's driving truck,

he's going to run a driver and make sales to keep this thing moving at $1,000 a week. And if that's gross and he's got $800 worth of expenses, then that changes the whole thing, too. I don't think so. I don't think this is going to work. Hey, thanks for the call. Zane is with us. Zane's in Canada. Hi, Zane.

How are you? Hello. Hi, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Hey, so I started watching your videos recently about car leases and I fully agreed that I should get rid of my car lease.

Now, the only situation was that my car lease is pretty affordable. It's $350 a month. It's a Toyota Camry. So about $4,200 a year. I could get rid of this lease today or tomorrow if I wanted to without paying any penalties, and the alternative is a $5,000 used car, which I would have to borrow for. What would you suggest? So you don't have any money? Pardon me? You don't have any money. I don't. I have $2, uh saved up but 350 is affordable in quotes uh how is that possible 350 is not affordable if you don't have any money uh no because i get about my take-home pays about 4,500 a month so i'm able to you know make that payment

yeah yeah so but like i do agree that i shouldn't lease long term like i want to get into a used car so okay so how since since this is no strain at all how much can you save a month if we wanted to save like your hair was on fire um i could save a thousand dollars a month okay so in five months in five months you would pay cash for a $5,000 car and then you would turn in the rental? I could give up the lease tomorrow if I wanted to. You misunderstood me. If you save $1,000 a month right now, in five months you'd have $5,000, right? Yeah.

Buy a $5,000 car then. Yeah. And turn the rental in. Yeah, I could do that. And there'd be no debt involved. Yeah. Do it. I also have an existing $10,000 student loan. Yeah, that's okay.

We're getting out of this lease. I'm with you. And then we'll attack the student loan as soon as we get no car payment. Yeah, yeah. And here's the thing. If you put into a calculator, dude, what $350 is, let's just do that just for the fun of it. Okay, I'm going to put $350 into my little calculator. And we're going to just invest this.

I'm going to pretend like you're 25 years old, and we're going just invest this i'm gonna pretend like you're 25 years old and we're gonna do that to age 65 and you keep this affordable easy payment that's no problem at all and um 350 dollars would be 4 million117,000 at retirement. I don't think that's affordable. That's what it costs you to give the car company $350 a month instead of investing $350 a month. You have a different definition of affordable than I do. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Business leaders, if you're not using LinkedIn jobs, you are missing out.

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and get $50 off your first job post. Visit linkedin. Jason is in Indiana. Hi, Jason. Whoop, whoop, whoop, whoop. Hey, Jason. How are you? I'm doing all right. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. What's up? Well, I have what I hope to be a simple question for you. My question is involving a pension that's from a company I don't work for anymore.

And they sent an offer letter to buy it out. And I guess my question is we're working on baby steps right now to pay off debt. And if I took it out as a lump sum, which is $28,182, it would allow me to pay off all of our debt except for student loans and house. Except that 40% of it will go to the government in taxes and penalties. So that's the second question I have. If that wasn't a smart option, should I leave it as is to where it would just simply exist until I retire, which they're telling me would be a $460 a month payment to me, or do I remove all of it out and put it into an IRA? You do a direct transfer rollover into an IRA and good mutual funds.

Here's why. When you die, the pension dies with you. Your heirs get zero. Okay? Now, they do tell me that that option, there is a survivor benefit with that. Right, just to your spouse. It's only 50. Bottom line is when both of you die, the money's gone.

Yes. Okay. When you put the $28,000 into a good IRA and mutual funds, it's going to grow at a faster rate than the pension is growing. And when you die, you don't lose the money. Or when both of you die, the don't lose the money, or when both of you die. The money's not gone. Right.

Okay? Okay. So we always roll a pension with us because it's better when you're alive, and it's better when you're dead. But you roll it to an IRA, you don't cash it out. You don't cash out retirement early because it's kind of like borrowing money at 40% interest to pay off your debt. That wouldn't make much sense. And by the time you get a 10% penalty plus your tax rate, that's what it hits most people is right around there.

And so you don't want to cash it out. But I do want to always roll over when I have a lump sum option. And for that matter, if you've got a 401K at an old company, a 403B at an old company, get with the SmartVestor Pro and roll it when you leave. Always take your retirement with you when you can. You've got better options, more options, more control. You'll be better alive and better dead. Aaron is with us in New York. Hi, Aaron. How are you? I'm doing pretty well. How about you? Better than I deserve. What's up? So I am a recent graduate and I make $150,000 a year. I have no debt, paid off my student loans already. And I just don't know what to do next. I have an emergency

fund. And my company does not allow me to trade stock. I contribute to my 401k. I have a Roth IRA as well. So I just don't know what to do next. You mean trade single stocks? Yeah, so for compliance reasons. Right, but you're buying mutual funds in your 401k, right? Correct. Okay, so that's stock, but you're not trading single stocks. Not directly, right. Gotcha. So you came out of school making $150,000.

What do you do? Software engineering. Oh, fair enough. You got a four-year degree or what? Four-year degree, but I've been coding since I was 10 years old. So I've been doing it a long time. So four-year degree plus some really good experience turns into $150,000 at what age? 22.

Way to go, man. That's impressive. Very impressive. Okay, so, well, there's two primary ways that people build the first layer of wealth, the first layer being the first million to $5 million. And as we've studied millionaires, it is filling up your 401k, your Roth IRAs, and using good growth stock mutual funds, buying a home and paying cash for it or paying it off very, very quickly. You're in a unique position because at a very young age, you're making an incredible amount

of money. I'm very proud of you. Very, very cool. You've obviously got a level head on of money. I'm very proud of you. Very cool. You've obviously got a level head on your shoulders. I mean, who asked this question even at 22? Not many. So you're a pretty cool guy. So the thing is, I don't know where you're going to be as far as purchasing real estate.

If you want to go buy a property and have the next big goal to pay it off as fast as possible, like within a few years, which you could do, that wouldn't be a bad thing. If there's a love interest in your life and you were to get married, you will discover that you have purchased the wrong house later on. So maybe, maybe, but I mean, it's just very difficult for, uh, your new wife, uh, when you're 27 to live in the house you bought when you were 24, you know, uh, that kind of a thing. It might be, it could happen, but normally you're going to move again. It's just, just from the way life works in that situation.

Um, but there's no rush. So, uh, my first goal for you then would be to save up and pay cash for or well i mean just save up and pay cash for a house make 150 a year you got no bills you're 22 you got no debt and um yeah won't you just save up i mean what three years of saving a bunch of your income you'd have three or four hundred thousand dollars i mean why not let's just do that and you'll be 25 years old with a paid for three hundred thousand dollar house make that big goal and reach for it fast um and then you can decide where you are in your life phase at that point where you want to live and those kinds of things

but um a a stabilized home place because it's paid for and a large investments into mutual funds into 401ks, Roth IRAs, the things you're doing there and more. And if you were just to do straight mutual fund investing, which you can probably do that as well without compliance issues because you don't have any control over what's being bought or sold inside the mutual fund, all of that would probably get you where you want to be. I mean, you should be worth $5 or $10 million by the time you're 35 years old. And then from there, you can decide what you want to do with the rest of it. All right, up next is going to be Brad in Kentucky.

Hey, Brad, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave, thanks for having me. How are you today? Better than I deserve. What's up? Well, so first of all, thank you so much for everything that you do. My wife and I actually just started the program, and at night we're no longer watching TV. We're watching podcasts and our Financial Peace University, and we can't wait to get that in the mail.

So now my question is, and everything that I've looked at, I can't find anything to where you talk specifically about someone that works on commission sales. So I make commissions, so my income is fluctuating each month, and I typically have kept quite a bit back in savings to be able to pay for, you know, any unexpected tax bills at the end of the year or anything like that that we would face, even a low commission month, just to meet our monthly expenses. So I want to get your thought in that situation. Should we still just have the $1,000 or should, in our situation, keep a little bit more back for those things?

What is a low commission month? Well, I mean, sometimes it could be $2,500. And what is your household income? It varies, probably around $150. Okay. So you take a pretty severe cut to get down to $2,500 as a low month, right? Yeah. I mean, that's growing consistently each year.

I mean, I don't expect to have months that low. I'm just basing it on past experience. Okay. Well, I mean, let's design a system that's working going forward, not in the past. So, I mean, are you really going to come up short any months ever? Probably not. It's probably not a true issue. Now, if it is an issue where you have some months that you're not going to make enough for your house to survive

and you've got to supplement it with savings temporarily, I would have that not in my emergency fund. I would have that in a separate account, and we just called that around our house the hill and valley account, because when we're in the valley, we need some from the months that were up, and they were the hill. Not a very dramatic name, but that's all I could come up with, because when your income is going up and down, it's like hills and valleys. And so, like, we had some months we made zero.

Some months we made $20,000. We're doing real estate. And so we had to cover the expenses. And so we had to separate from our emergency fund to cover the extreme volatility. But if you can cover it without doing that, I would. And you shouldn't have any unexpected tax bills. Taxes are, you can calculate taxes. Folks, let's cut through the bull.

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This is a paid advertisement. NMLS ID 1591. NMLSconsumeraccess.org. Equal housing lender. 761 Old Hickory Boulevard, Brentwood, Tennessee 37027. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage, Hannah's here. Hey, Hannah, how are you? I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve. Welcome. Where do you live? I'm in Collegeville, Pennsylvania.

Cool. Welcome to Nashville. And all the way here to do a debt-free scream. Yes. Love it. How much you paid off? $33,095.09. Love it. How long did this take? Seven and a half months. Good for you. And your range of income during that time? Well, I'm still in college, so it wasn't really a range. I made $26,000 in seven and a half months. Okay.

Then how did you pay off $33,000? So I also rehabbed a house and sold it during this time as well. Oh, okay. Cool. So you're currently in college. Correct. Studying what? I'm an applied economics, German, and theater triple major.

Wow. German, theater, and applied economics. Correct. None of these things have anything to do with each other. What in the world? That's a cool triple major, but how are they related? Other than Hannah. Theater started out as a hobby.

I went in thinking that I was going to be a theater major. And realized quite quickly that I had bigger interests. Picked up the applied economics major because it was something I really connected to. And then German, I have been speaking German since I was seven years old. So I wanted to keep it up and realize that with the classes I was already taking, I could easily get into another major. Okay. So, but the, it sounds like the target then is the applied economics. Correct. Good for you. Very cool. So you're still in school and decided to knock out your student loan debts. Yes. Tell me the story. What happened? Last January, I guess it was over Christmas break last year. I kind of just realized my

parents had been talking to me for a while. They went through FPU about two years ago now. Um, and I realized that this was something I needed to start taking seriously. I mean, with the house, it had always been in mind that I was going to be paying off my student loans, but I hadn't been focused essentially. Um, and I had been, you know, kind of putting a couple hundred dollars here and there towards my student loans, but it was random. It was just when I had extra cash. And I realized that if I focused, I could probably pay it off before I graduated. And then summer rolled around and I was working like 60 hours a week. And all of a sudden I realized I was paying it off faster than I thought I was. There it is and just finished it up. So what's the story on the rehab a house?

What do you mean? So as a senior in high school my parents invested in me. They helped me purchase a foreclosure and I spent the time learning how to renovate a house. I did the majority of the work myself with guidance from my father and also other mentors along the way. And it took me almost four years to finish and sell it. Wow. So what kind of work did you do yourself on this house? Absolutely everything. So you're a painter, you're an electrician, you you're a plumber i basically gutted it and put in a brand new bathroom put in a brand new kitchen redid the floors uh just about everything wow that's impressive and then you sold it for a profit yes that's what it comes down to exactly Exactly. So how much of the $33,000 was from the profit of the rehab? Well, I got $22,955, and some of that went to cash flowing this current semester of college,

and the rest of it went towards the debt that I hadn't already paid off. So my numbers are a little... Yeah, it's going to be about half and a half then, give or take. Yeah. Very good. Very impressive. I bet your parents are thinking you're pretty cool they got to be pretty proud i'd say so i'd say who were your biggest cheerleaders mom and dad who else absolutely mom and dad my sister um i mean my family they were the ones who taught me everything i know so pretty cool i think that's applied economics. I think you've been applying economics to your situation. Well done. Well done.

So how does it feel? You're going to come out of school with no debt. It's incredible. And three majors. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Pretty strong.

And you can, you know, just tear a house down and put it back together if you want to. Because you're a superwoman. You can do anything. That's pretty amazing, Hannah. That's very cool. how old are you 22 wow i love it two 22 year olds that are more successful than i ever dreamed i would be already in this hour well done absolutely incredible very cool very cool so what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is? Focus and knowing your why. If you know what's motivating you and are able to use that to stay focused, you can do anything. You've probably heard we're having this whole debt-free degree movement.

Anthony's out there selling the new book, Debt-Free Degree, that he wrote. We've got the Borrowed Future podcast trying to convince people they can go to college debt-free. Not only have you paid off your student loans, but you're finishing school debt-free with three majors. So obviously you think it's possible. What do you think the secret to that was? Time management. From the time I woke up in the morning, the time I went to bed, every hour was accounted for. Okay.

Very, very detailed. Good for you. Well, very well done. Touchdown. I love it. That is so cool. Very, very cool. All right.

Hannah from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. We got a copy of Chris Hogan's book for you. Everyday Millionaires. You're going to be wanting about 20 minutes of where you're going. Oh, my gosh. Oh, wow. All right. Day millionaires, you're going to be one in about 20 minutes, the way you're going. Oh, my gosh. Oh, wow. All right.

Hannah from Philadelphia, $33,000 paid off in seven and a half months, making $26,000, including the sale of a rehab. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. I'm debt-free! Woo-hoo! You know, sometimes I run into old people who are all down the dumps about the future of America. And I tell them, listen, you just need to listen to the Dave Ramsey Show, because I meet the future of America every day, and it's bright.

I mean, there's a lot of Hannahs out there. This is an incredible generation coming up. Absolutely incredible. Who does that? That is so cool. Well done, Hannah. Very well done. Our question of the day comes from blinds.com.

100% satisfaction guarantee means even if you mismeasure or you pick the wrong color, they will remake your window blinds free. You get free samples, free shipping, and with the new promos they run every month, you'll even save more. Use the promo code Ramsey. Today's question is from Angeline in Michigan. I have been recently thinking about opening a Roth IRA, but combined with my husband, we make more than $200,000 a year. He told me we would not be eligible without being penalized because we file our taxes together. Is this correct?

Yes, it is correct. However, there is still a method to do it. It's called a backdoor Roth IRA. I do one, and I make considerably more than $200,000 a year. And I do one with my wife, Sharon, as well, every year. A backdoor Roth IRA works like this. You simply open an after-tax, not before-tax, but an after-tax IRA, which you are allowed to do regardless of income,

and then simultaneously, 30 seconds later, roll it it into a Roth and I do one every year and it's actually technically a loophole in the law I don't know how they would ever close the loophole because it's a mechanical function of the way the IRA system works but I'm sure if they can figure out a way to close the loophole they will someday but it's perfectly legal and perfectly moral to do it today it's called a backdoor Roth IRA your SmartVestor pro can help you pull that off they can help you do that so just click SmartVestor at DaveRamsey.com it'll drop down a list of the SmartVestor pros in your area and you will be able to pick one that you like with the heart of a teacher. You can sit down with them then and pull this Roth IRA, backdoor Roth IRA together. Angie's with us.

Angie's in Connecticut. Hi, Angie. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, yes, Dave. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. I've got to tell you, I'm fired up right now. So I heard about you two months ago.

My husband and I, we are on baby step number two now. And my question is this. Currently right now at my employer's office, I am already capped with my salary. All right. I'll tell you what. Hang on for a second. I didn't realize I was up on a commercial. It's my fault.

I'll come back to you right after this break. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. All right, we're talking with Angie in Connecticut. Hey, Angie, how are you? Hi, thank you. All right, now one more time. You said your job was what? You were stuck and you were capped or what? Right.

So what I wanted to know was, so basically where I am right now, my salary is going to be capped where I am. I'm not moving any further because I don't have any other, what do I say, I always like to do or I like to be involved in trade field type of work. I actually enjoy plumbing. And I came across a wonderful apprenticeship program that's actually a paid program for five years. So my question is this, being that we're currently working on baby step number two, even though I'm taking two steps back to do this apprenticeship program, would it make sense to go on with it or completely be debt free and then do this program three years later? It's going to take you three years to get out of debt? Well, because currently right now we're just about $40,000 in debt.

You're single? No, no. My husband and I, so currently our household income is $65,000 a year. And you have $40,000 in debt? Correct. Okay. So you ought to be out of debt in two years, not three. Well, if we hustle.

That would be the idea. Hustling would be the plan. Right. Okay. So we're going to hustle. We're going to get out of debt in two years. So what do you currently make? Myself, $45,000.

And so your husband makes $20,000? Right, because he's part-time, because we also have two little children and we don't pay for child care because it would be more than what I even bring in. Really. Okay, and so you would go as the primary breadwinner from $45,000 to what on this apprentice program? Well, currently it's saying here that it will be anywhere between $15.85 an hour, saying that it would give you a percentage of what the journeyman wage rate would be. But it does say that the wage rate does advance yearly as you continue to get more under your belt under the apprenticeship program.

Okay. And if you're getting 40 hours? Yes. It's Monday through Friday classes. It's 40 hours, and it does say at the end of this completion, you get a certificate from the state of which I live as a licensed plumber. Because it pays about $35,000 if you only work 40 hours. Could you do a side hustle?

You mean not being a trade job? Let me see here. Probably cannot because it's saying that I would need to do two night classes from 6 p.m. to 9 p.m., and that would be Thursdays and Tuesday nights that I have to attend, and that's part of their service. And so you're how old? 42.

And when you're 52, you want to be a plumber? I do. Okay. I'm not saying it's bad. I'm just checking. Well, it's harder than that. I'm just checking. Okay. No, I do. Okay. I'm not saying it's bad. I'm just checking. Well, it's better than that. I'm just checking. Okay.

No, I do. Okay. I enjoy that kind of work. Okay. I think you're reading a brochure to me, and I think that's the only knowledge you have of this program. I want you to do more investigation, and I want you to learn every detail of the program, and I want you to keep every detail of the program. And I want you to keep working to get out of debt. And somewhere close to the point that you're out of debt, like 18 months from now,

maybe you would start the program. No, I would not take that much of a step back today to not make that much of a step forward later. And it because it's going to extend the time you're in debt substantially um of course anything as soon as you're out of debt you can do it so any side hustle you can pick up now anything your husband can do to increase his income now while you're doing all this to get you out of debt that much faster because soon as you're free of debt it gives you lots of options there's lots of different things you can do at that point and so that's um that's the plan then and that's what i would do so hey thanks for the call open phones at 888-825-5225 you jump in we'll talk about your life and your money aaron is with us in nebraska hi aaron how

are you i'm doing very well dave good Good to talk to you. You too. How can I help? So brief, just background on me. I'm 21 years old. I am completely debt-free. I make about $55,000 to $65,000 a year between a couple small businesses that I own. I have my emergency fund, and where this is going is with one of my businesses, I have about a hundred thousand dollars in exotic snakes that we breed and so on and so forth. And I got a couple of buddies that are headed to Indonesia to visit the island where these animals come from. And these islands have never been documented. No one's been there except for local tribes and so on and so forth. And so the only way I would be able to go with the guys,

because one guy is videoing it and one guy is the guide, is if I was going to be a trip sponsor, and it would cost me about $15,000 to do. Why would it cost you $15,000 to visit this island of undocumented snakes? So the trip's going to be about two to three weeks long. One of the guys that's going has been to Indonesia seven times, and so what he is is he's the guide. So that's his contribution to the trip.

The other person does YouTube professionally, and he's going to be doing all the photos, videos, and so on and so forth. So they're trying to keep the head count as low as they can because this is honestly not a very good trip. So it's costing them $15,000 to go to? No, it would cost about $4,000 to $5,000 per person. And so they don't really want to, I know these guys personally, but they don't really want to let anybody else tag along

unless they're really going to contribute something towards the expedition. Oh. I think your buddies are scamming you they're paying four grand and they want you to pay 15 to go on a trip with them well what one part of it though would be it would be the sponsor so with our reptile business our name would be the sponsor that whoopty doile business, our name would be the sponsor. Whoopty-doopty. Who's going to see it?

Undocumented snakes? No. This is just you wanting to go on a trip. No, man. I mean, I don't blame you for going on the trip. If you want to spend $4,000, you can do that. But if you want to sell $15,000 worth of your $100,000 in snakes in order to go, that's okay, too too as long as you pay cash for this but i just don't think you're getting a good deal here i don't think your

buddies are being buddies at all yep i mean you pay your part they pay their part you tag along and i'll be the i'll be your sherpa i'll carry your stuff or something. Maybe you pay my way, and I'll work for you while I'm there. Yeah. Maybe I'm road crew. I think they just saw an opportunity to get some money out of you. I don't know. You do whatever you want to do. I just smell a rat.

It's probably not good in a bunch of snakes, but I do smell a rat. So, I mean, you do whatever you want to do i doesn't it doesn't feel right to me from the perspective of i don't think you're getting 15 000 i'm almost positive you're not getting 15 000 in value out of your sponsorship i think that's all just bs because they just were trying to get some money from you. But the – I mean, you guys all have a common interest. They want to go. You want to go. Hey, I'll pay my part.

And if you need to give me a name because it's Indonesia, if I have to have a title, you can give me the title of sponsor. But I'm not paying 4X what you guys are paying to go so you get a free trip out of it because you happen to know me and talk me into this. I just know. I wouldn't do it. You do whatever you want to do, man, but pay cash for it above your emergency fund. Don't go in debt.

Sell enough inventory to make it happen if you're going to do it. But I don't think you're getting $15,000 worth of value, and I think you need to rethink how they're pitching this to you. I think they're kind of walking away from these conversations snickering. I could be wrong. All right, man. Thanks for the call. That puts this hour of The Dave Ramsey Show.

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