The Ramsey Show - App - Should I Invest Outside of My 401(k)? (Hour 3)

Episode Date: January 2, 2023

Dave Ramsey & Ken Coleman discuss: Spreading out investments beyond the 401(k), Staying in a job for the pension, Quiet Quitting. Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6 Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. This is the Ramsey Show. We help people build wealth, do work they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225.

Ben is going to start us off this hour in Winston Salem. Hi, Ben. Welcome to the Ramsey show. Hey, David. Ken, how are y'all? Better than we deserve, brother. What's up, man? Good to hear.

Hey, I just wanted to make it brief. I just wanted to ask you, my company, well, my wife and I has recently got to baby step four, five, and six and uh had a question about investing my company matches six percent and then my wife's company matches three percent on our full loan case um i guess what my question is the nine percent from my company that they does that they don't match and the 12 percent from my wife's company that they don't match. Should we take that remaining percentage and go with a SmartVest or Pro or just keep it within our company 401k?

Okay, the rule of thumb is this. Match beats Roth beats traditional. So you do all the matching you can do, then you do all the Roth you can do, and if you do all of that and you're still not to 15%, then you would do traditional. Does either your wife or your company offer a Roth 401k? Yes, sir, both companies. They're both currently in a Roth 401k. Good, very good.

Okay, so you're going to take the full match there, obviously, and the match portion the portion the company puts in is technically not roth it's uh technically traditional and you can't do anything about that but the portion you're putting in is roth now are do you feel like the mutual funds that you can select from in both 401ks are good strong selections that you can get good funds there well i'll be honest with you dave i don't know a whole lot about stocks mutual funds um but i guess that's why i was asking um okay i i'm really not sure okay i'm not sure what's a good mutual fund and what's a good stock all right

well if you can get in good mutual funds at the work then it will be as good as doing a roth ira with good mutual funds with a smart investor proor Pro. The beauty of doing the SmartVestor Pro might be, in your case, though, that you get a teacher in your corner. That SmartVestor Pro will have the heart of a teacher to teach you about your mutual funds, and that will help you select the ones that work as well as the ones for the Roth IRA. So I probably would do at least one Roth IRA with a SmartVestor Pro and then have them give you some advice on where to put the rest of it, whether you can put it in the 401k,

but you got to put enough in to get the match in both cases. And then you don't have to, but that's what I would do. And then I would do Roth from there. And you can either do Roth with a SmartVestor Pro or Roth in that 401k. And you'll definitely be able to get to the full thing at that point so great job great job man very very well done that's beautifully played you know uh ken this this money thing and this job hunting thing and this mental health thing the stuff we deal with on the show all the time um there's something about those three different subjects there that they have in common that they're uh they're intimidating you know it it feels like you know i'm not i'm not a mental health expert i'm not a career expert i'm not a money expert so i don't know

what to do with my own life and those things and the good news is is that while the subjects you know they always have experts around those three things, but they're common sense. The solutions are common sense. That's correct. Just common country wisdom. Yeah, they feel very complex. And what the key to complexity is is always simplicity.

I always think about it, you know, if I ever got out in the garage, I shouldn't be doing much with machines. No, you shouldn't. You should not. And you see all that trimming wire all tangled up. Well, there's only one solution to that, right? You throw it away, or you slowly start to unravel that. Oh, you're talking about your weed eater?

Oh, yeah, yeah. That stuff gets all tangled up. There's not complexity there anymore. It's simplicity to get it untangled and untangling your financial life, untangling work, untangling your mental health. All of that has a simple solution. And it starts with, Hey, how much of me is involved in this? And what can I do? What can I control? And that's what we teach here is a clear path in all of those areas to say all right I can fix this it is fixable and when you decide that then you look into and you go what's the best way to fix it and you realize it's usually much simpler than you think but the fear

and the doubt associated with these heavy topics tend to keep us kind of just on the edge of moving forward to actually make a change. You know what, too, that goes with that is it's a human tendency. You and I share it with all of our listeners, too, that when something like that feels overwhelming or complicated or like over my head, then what I want to do is I just want to hand it to somebody who says they're an expert. Yes.

And walk away and let them handle it because I don't want to screw with it. But that very seldom turns out well. Instead, what you need to do is the experts that are in your life, like the Bible says, in the multitude of counsel, there is safety. And that doesn't say in the multitude of experts. True. It says counsel. Yeah.

Counsel is teaching. Yeah. Counsel is speaking into. And then you're. say in the multitude of experts true it says counsel yeah counsel is teaching yeah counsel is speaking into and then you're so what we always want to do at ramsey with any of these subjects is we want to give you information and if we connect you with someone um a mental health professional a uh a smart investor pro uh churchill mortgage we always are requiring them to be ramsey trusted on the other end and have this uh heart of a teacher because we always want you guys to make your own decisions and so if you can't make the decision it's because you don't have enough knowledge yet and you need to get knowledge in those areas so that guy's question was fabulous yeah really was because now he says i don't know

much about this but i need to go to a smart investor pro because i think i need to know more about it that's exactly right instead of i you know but don't don't tell me i got somebody managing my money no no no no you're managing your money yeah they're teaching you about how that's done helping you with that yeah or you know you know, I turned over my job search to another guy. No, no, no. You're in charge of your job search. That's correct. Here's how that will play out with that caller.

You know, he's going to now sit down with a smart investor pro, and he's going to understand his investment portfolio. He's going to understand the strategy. He's going to understand the things that you've taught us over the years, that you've taught callers, the rate of return, how you stay in the long game. He's going to learn all that. And here's what's going to happen. He'll never be a financial expert like a smart investor pro, but because of that counsel, that advising, here's what happens. He's not going to get freaked out and get scared when the market dips for three straight months. He's not going

to make risky moves. Why? He has a knowledge base and now some wisdom. If you know what's going on, you sleep at night. That's correct. If you don't know what's going on, you're wondering if your guy down there is screwing you. That's true. It's hard to sleep at night. But when you know what you know and you made the call,

then you can put your head on the pillow. It's not a problem. This is the ramsey show ស្រូវានប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប� Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five Tommy's in Cincinnati hey Tommy welcome to the Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Tommy's in Cincinnati. Hey, Tommy, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, thank you guys for having me, gentlemen. How are you doing today?

Better than we deserve, sir. How can we help? So I'm just kind of first and foremost grateful to be on the call. My wife and I are newly debt-free. Thank you guys for your leadership there and your guidance. Between the two of us, we make roughly $138,000 per year. I have been in a job, I'm 35 years old, for about 15 years with the federal government, working for a government agency. And at 30 years, so at the time I'm 50, I'll be eligible for a monthly annuity or pension.

Kind of growing up, I've heard of my grandparents having pensions, so on and so forth. They obviously are doing well, but aside from them, I haven't really encountered anyone with a pension. So I have this kind of perfect ideal picture of what it's like to have a pension, and especially at the age of 50, you know, just kind of enticing. Well, as a little while ago. You're how old now again? I'm 35 years old. Okay, so 15 more years. Okay. Yep, yep.

Well, today I was just offered another job working in the private sector, making about $40,000 to $50,000 more, depending on the bonus, but an annual base salary of about $40,000 more per year. And just kind of curious, you know, which way would you lean on going that would bring our household income to roughly $80,000 per year. I thought you were getting a potential raise. He did, $50,000. Okay, so that last part. From $130,000 to $180,000, right?

Oh, you said $80,000. I thought you said $80,000 for a second. Well, so let's remove the money from the conversation. When you heard about this job opportunity, okay, I understand the bump, and it's in the private sector, but do you get excited about the actual work itself and then where it might lead? Yes, I guess, yes and no. Yes, and just in terms of doing something different, right?

I've been doing my current job for 15 years on the younger side of things, but really don't know a whole lot else. All right. Let me ask you this. Do you, what's your enjoyment level of your government job right now on a scale of one to 10, one being suck and 10 being,

you love it. I would say eight. I like it pretty well. So here's the deal. Number one, I wouldn't stay in any job for any pension, just for the pension. The pension to me would never be the reason I would stay. All right. And the good news is, is you got an eight. That's a pretty high level of enjoyment. Most Americans aren't experiencing an eight in their work. So that's good. On the other hand, you know,

going to the private sector with an opportunity to move up the ladder and make more money, I would do that in regards to just staying for a pension. So you're kind of in this middle area for me. There's not a clear winner because you could take this job, the private sector job, make more money, even have an opportunity for advancement. But if you don't enjoy the work and it's just, I'm doing it because it's something different. me tell you something you got about 40 percent of people who change jobs in the last two years regret changing their jobs because the paycheck wore off the promotion wore off and they realized they were better off where they were and that concerns me your answer of it's just something different well once the different way wears off now you could be stuck so what do you do now um like what agency what's

your day job what's what's your title what do you do yeah so i am like a customer service person uh working for a state agency or excuse me a federal agency that helps with grants so you're customer service okay and so you would be doing what at the new place? I would be working for a telecommunications company, working with local municipalities and managing their contracts. So kind of in the same field. Correct, yep, absolutely. So theoretically, you could have an 8 on the enjoyment meter

at this new job as well, correct? Yeah, yeah, for sure. I think you need to dig in a little bit more, you know, because it's a no-brainer for me. If you were to tell me that you could enjoy the private sector job and it provides you a ladder for financial and professional growth, that's a no-brainer to me to take the private sector if you've got if you've got as good an environment or better you've got as good a chance of progressing or better and your level of enjoyment is as good or better 100 take the new job yeah okay because the pension versus 50 grand is an easy decision. Yes.

You know, let's just say 15 years you're talking about sitting there waiting on this pension. 15 years of 50 grand is called 750 grand. That'll build you a pension, my man. For sure. For sure. Self-induced, self-owned, self-run, self-everything. That's correct. phone self-run self-everything and you'll you know so the you're gonna make a lot more money in the private sector than your pension would ever even come close to um and uh the you know well it's secure not listen there's nothing is there's nothing secure though your position is

only as secure as you are your ability to go get something is your security, and you've already proven that. So yeah, as long as the company is solid, there's not a bunch of toxic environment, and you're not just going just for the money. The people that have had the regret went just for the money, and they ignored the other variables, and they stepped in it. Yep, that's exactly right. So they get there, and they realize, wait a second, I was really excited about the paycheck bump and maybe a nice new title, but I don't enjoy coming into work. Yeah, these people, their values are screwed up.

Yeah, they may treat you like you're just a commodity instead of a human being. Because you acted like one. Hello. You were able to be purchased. That's a very good point. That's a very good point. They dangled the carrot and you went after it. If you act like a commodity, then guess what?

They might treat you like a commodity and you might sign up for being a commodity. And then you get dumped on the street the first time they decide they're going to raise profits by decreasing payroll. That's called layoffs in corporate America for no reason other than increasing profits. And they do it every day. I've been announcing them left and right like crazy so that's the thing you don't want to get into if you've got but if you got a solid company they're going to treat you well you feel like your enjoyment is there your your chances of progressing in the field are just as good or better um you know you're never trade a pension

or benefits for that always take the upside always. Yeah, the purported security will always let you down. Well, I mean, we have an investment strategy that you've been teaching for decades, and it works. And that's what we're talking about here. The pay raise plus you using that strategy, you're going to get further, faster than the pension ever would get you. Yeah, I mean, 50 grand, 750 in 15 years. That adds up.

Before you're eligible for the pension, you made an extra three-quarters of a million dollars. And that's not counting any raises. You would have gotten over and beyond what the federal government is going to give you. So take the job if all things are equal. That's the answer to the equation. So many people in government. But don't take the job without making sure all things are equal. That's the issue.

Like, you've got to dig. And it's as simple as, like, talking to people who work there or talking to somebody who knows somebody that works over there. Now, again, you don't take one squeaky wheel and say, oh, well, this is a horrible company. You've got to get real feedback, get real mature people who are going to tell you what it's like there. And that is not hard to find out, but you got to be intentional. Yeah.

I mean, you can find people that don't like anything. That's right. I'll guarantee you. I mean, we have an incredible culture. Ramsey Solutions is a world-class place to work, but you can find people that are pissed off that used to work here. I've read nonsensical, straight-up lies about our organization as if I wasn't in the building. I've read this crap on social media, and people do this.

People, squeaky wheels, will do that in any company, not just Ramsey, any company. And it's like, you've got to talk to enough people to know whether or not we've got somebody who's angry or somebody who's hurt or straight-up crazy. Because I've seen it all. Yeah, and you can find somebody displeased with anything, and some of them have an agenda. So anyway, us included. That's right. And in that place. So don't just take one.

That's right. Do your homework. Make sure that you're not just trading your soul for money. That's what you don't want to do. But if you can keep your soul and have a great work environment and make more money yes trade 50 grand for a pension in about a nanosecond this is the ramsey show We'll see you next time. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author, is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America. We're so glad you are with us bill and

sherry are with us there in fort myers florida says on my screen you guys are debt free congratulations yes thank you way to go how much did you pay off we paid off 438 806 dollars and $138,806.32. Wow. How long did that take? Well, it took 13 years. Okay. I wanted to be on the show to let others hear a perseverance story. I hear you. Good for you. And your range of income during that time?

We started out at zero, and then we quickly grew that to about 80, and we're currently sitting at about 225. Cool. What do you all do for a living well i'm an elementary school teacher and i work for siemens i'm an uh electrical sales engineer for them very cool what's the house worth i'll take it you paid off your house oh yes absolutely way to go weirdos i love. Y'all are excellent. How old are you? We're 58. And what's this house worth? Well, it wasn't just the house. We have a strange story, Dave. We got started in real estate a little bit like you back when we were 28. That was 30 years ago. But we had subscribed

to this mail order real estate course called Carlton Sheets. Oh, yeah. No money down guy. Remember him? I remember Carlton, yeah. Don't ever do that. Anyway, he was like, buy this one and then borrow from it and buy the next one. So we had 10 apartments. We paid off a motor home, 10 apartments, and then our home, our home in Florida that we live in now.

So you own all of it free and clear? Free and clear. Absolutely. What's it all worth oh i guess all the assets together would probably be in the area of two million way to go guys i love it that's excellent baby steps millionaires well done well done good stuff man i'm so proud of y'all good Good, good work. So what puts you on this whole Ramsey way of doing things? Well, believe it or not, in, uh, back in 08, we had one of those life moments. This is why you want to always have an emergency fund. We didn't have one. We had all these apartments, we're

paying on these apartments. And if there's a vacancy, it's a real problem. But, uh, I was doing great in my career. I was having a great sales, you's a real problem. Yeah. But I was doing great in my career. I was having a great sales year. My wife was teaching. She goes, you know, our son's going into high school. I'd like to be home so I can be involved in that. I said, do it. And I said, I'm having a great year.

Well, you know what happened? Six weeks later, I was laid off. Oh, my gosh. So we went all the way to zero. And one of Sherry's teacher friends,issa weigel gave us your book and i read it in one night one sitting and i said geez i wish i'd learned this in high school i said we're doing this and we just took off from there wow so sherry you didn't have to be talked into it at all oh no no i was like oh i i am the thrifty shopper you You know, I like consignment shops, and so I was all on board to begin with. I wanted to get out of debt and start a free life.

Yeah, I love it. Good for you guys. Well done. Well done. Thank you. What do you tell people the key to persevering for 13 years is? Well, you know, certainly you've got to get that budget out and talk about it once a month, even if it's painful. But you got to review it. You got to be in sync with your spouse. My wife and I still have the $50 rule. I'm hoping that'll go up here soon.

We don't let either the person spend $50 without checking. So that seems to really help. I feel like we got to dive in on that with Sherry. How do you feel about raising the $50 limit? He brought it up. People want to know. Well, listen, I'm still very conservative. I like to have a nest egg and know it's there for our future and not to touch it. And, you know, I kind of had to keep him on a budget, but he's doing really good. I have to say that we're both kind of on the same page, and that's so important.

Sherry, you've got $2 million. I know. It needs to be a $100 rule, okay? Yeah. Come on, Sherry. Okay, maybe we'll go up to $100. There we go. Wow.

Oh, goodness. Hey, Bill, you owe Dave and I on that one. By the way, Sherry, you answered that one like a politician on a Sunday morning show. Oh, you guys are fun. Very well done. Very well done. Okay, so for 13 years, you've persevered from that zero. Both of you, her quitting, you losing the job.

We go to zero. Scares the crud out of us. For 13 years, you've leaned into this. Now, when you look look back was it worth it oh my gosh the feeling is absolutely incredible god is so good and and we are just very blessed absolutely we worked hard but i wouldn't have changed it at all yeah way to go well i got to tell you we're proud of you you're pretty. So a couple million dollars worth of real estate there and net worth in excess of that and a good household income, and, you know, you're not even 60.

So you've got lots of time to enjoy this, lots of good stuff ahead. Very, very well done. So if you had it to do over again, what would you do different? Anything? Oh, I think we would have started off when we were like 25 when we got married yeah and maybe we wouldn't have had such a huge wedding and maybe you wouldn't have bought nothing down apartments yeah maybe you wouldn't have bought nothing down apartments all right that's right yeah okay wow good for you guys

good stuff good stuff hey we got a copy of baby steps. Good for you guys. Good stuff. Good stuff. Hey, we got a copy of Baby Steps Millionaires for you. You are one, and that's very, very cool. One-year membership to Financial Peace University for your use, or you can give it to someone who runs into your story and is inspired and you want to help them. Same thing with the Total Money Makeover book. Eight million people have now read that book. Well, eight million people bought the book.

We think most of them read it so um there's that so hey guys way to go very very proud of you excellent excellent job bill and sherry fort myers florida 439 000 house and apartments and everything in 13 years making zero to 80 to 225. Count it down, Baby Steps millionaires. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. Thank you, Jesus. We're debt-free. Yeah.

That is how that is done. Woo. Well done, you two. Very, very well done. Man. So there is a principle here of diligence. The Bible says the diligent prosper. Dil diligence is excellence in the ordinary over time doing it every day well with and they prosper as opposed to what are they calling the thing

on tiktok quitting while you're quiet quitting yes quiet quitting like being at work and not working yeah is that the idea the idea is i'm not going to do any more than it's expected of me i'm just going to do the bare minimum go home and uh not going to get any i would agree with that if you signed up for a 40-hour work week and they're trying to work you 80 oh sure you know and you're like okay i'm going home you you know at five because we go home at ramsey i mean we close this place down and yeah we go to home to our families at night but we work hard while we're here if anybody quiet quitting quiet quits while they're here during the day i'll quiet fire them yeah it'll be very quiet that would be quiet i love that that would that would like you're not working while you're at work that's called lack of diligence well yeah lack of character kind of like stealing yeah but i don't

can't tell some of the stuff seems to talk about that like don't don't work while you're at work like some kind of like i'm on strike in there together i'm a millennial or whatever i am or i'm a whatever some kind of snowflake and i don't want work, and you're going to pay me anyway. Well, I'll just fire your little butt. Yeah. I can fix that. But if you're instead saying, oh, I'm going to do the work that we agreed I was going to do, and I'm not going to work 80 hours a week, then that's fine, because I didn't ask somebody to work 80 hours a week here.

We don't do that. Now, occasionally we have to because something's messed up we got to get you know we got to get something done but it's a short-term thing because it's a small business we have to get our work done but this idea that i'm going to quietly not work which a lot of people were doing that anyway they're just sitting on their facebook account while they're at work. And unless you work in social media, that's not working. Well, listen, Bill. And that's diligence.

These guys on the other side, this call we just took was diligence. Baby steps millionaires versus average. Yeah. What do you want to be? Average? Mediocre? Go quietly quit. This is the Ramsey Show. Our scripture of the day, Philippians 3.14,

I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of god in christ jesus bruce lee said the successful warrior is the average man with laser-like focus well we just see that every day here on the show that one like that one a lot trevor is with us trevor is in grand rapids michigan hi trevor how are you hi david ken how are you guys? Great, man. How can we help? Good. Hey, I have a career question. I guess kind of a good problem to have, I think. A few weeks ago, I was in the interview process for two different roles. And guess, company A, we went through the process and they sent me an offer. And so I followed up with company B and only to find out that the hiring manager had resigned from

his position. So I'm a Christian. So I kind of saw that as kind of one door closing, another one opening, and I accepted the offer to the first company. Well, about a week later, the leadership from company B contacted me and asked if he could send over an offer. So kind of the predicament I'm in now is I have two offers, but I've already accepted one offer from another company. So I'm just struggling ethically kind of how to handle that situation. And so I just wanted to call you guys for some advice on that sure so what's the better offer for you clearly be um i think so yeah i

think otherwise there'd be no struggle yeah there's no struggle so so right so here's what you have to weigh um your your morality you're a really good guy you're a high character guy so you feel bad about this because you want to take B, but you're worried about how they're going to feel and maybe a little bit more worried about how you're going to look if you go back to A and go, hey, listen, I accepted the offer. I was up for two offers at the time. Here's what happened. And I think you have to say, how would you want someone to handle the situation with you? And so here, let me give you what I think is the real issue you have to get comfortable with. If you take A, in other words, if you stay with A, but you really

want B and B is the better offer, you're really doing A a disservice if you stay anyway. So what you think feels like, well, I accepted the offer. I've got to be a good guy. I've got to be high character and I got to stay with A. But your I is always on B. I think it's due to disservice to company A anyway. So I think the way to handle this, the way I would handle it is to treat someone the way I would want to be treated in this situation, which is be absolutely clear and upfront about what happened, the timeline and everything. They're not going to be happy about it, but you've got to do what you believe is right for you long term. What's the difference in the offers?

About $15,000 a year. What about the companies? So one company, company A, is a little more established and has a little bit more structure, so I kind of know what I'm going to need to. Company B is a little more smaller, and they're going through a lot of changes and there's a lot of opportunity, a lot of eyeballs on the roll. Yeah, they're also very disorganized. Probably.

No, they are. You told me the hiring manager got quit or got fired, and they never followed up with you until you'd already accepted another offer. You're exactly right. They had no handoff. They had no methodology for handing off a lost employee and picking up their workload. They're disorganized. That's true. And so they're more of a startup, and they're flying by the seat of their pants. Which one are you going to exist better in? I might be better in the startup because I'm kind of that rough and tumble guy.

But some people prefer the structure and the predictability. Yeah, and I'm coming from a larger kind of publicly traded company, so I'm used to that a little bit more. So what's most attractive about B? Is it just the $15,000 bump, or is there more to it than that? Well, that's certainly a part of it. Well, is it the majority part? Because I'm telling you. For $15,000, I'm not doing it.

Yeah, for $15,000, that'll wear off pretty quickly. If you see this as an opportunity, I'm not as – Dave brings a very good point, but I'd want to know, is this an isolated situation, or is this a pattern across the board with how they handle the miscommunication? You know what I'm saying? Yeah, that's a good – So, A, is it a pattern? And, B, are you mostly attracted to B just because of the bump?

I'm a pretty rough and tumble ready to go with a startup, but it would concern me if that they dropped a ball and the ball by the way was you that would concern me a little bit yes as long as it could be isolated i could see this happening so i want you i want to put you on the spot you didn't answer it yet is it mostly the pay or is this you feel like this might be a good ladder for you to climb um i know i'm trying to reconcile that right now as we talk um i think the pay has something to do with it but i think there's there's definitely opportunity at both both places so as far as the ladder to climb like i think there's an opportunity at both places that's fair what's the total pay um for the well for which one uh the total i mean either one 15 or minus 15 okay so the the higher pay is 125 okay so 125 or 110 sure yeah so we're talking about a 15 swing give or take 14 swing yeah yeah so um well i i would be perfectly fine with either

choice if i were you if you want to walk into the other people and go look here's what happened i don't like this i don't even like how it feels this is awkward i'm very sorry i'm going the other direction and take b um but i i will throw into mix, just as a part of the decision, that I don't think this is apples to apples. You're presenting this as apples to apples, plus or minus 15. And I think B is a lot more unpredictable. And single events don't bother me, but if you can establish that this is a pattern,

and this organization just simply does not run as well for whatever reason and that discounts it for me okay and so i yeah you you can decide that you can fresh i'm sorry okay i would say this is super fresh it just happened kind of this morning and so it's uh it's something that i that's the type of stuff that i want to i wanted to call you guys and like yeah think about things that i wasn't already thinking how many employees is b oh 200 and how old are they uh five years old okay same industry or different industries um different industries? Different industries. All right. That's another question that I didn't bring up.

I mean, long term, do you want to pivot to the industry of Company B? Well, I mean, I should preface this. I'm in finance, so this is like a senior finance role. So it'll be finance in both companies. Oh, okay. Just the same type of work, different industry. Yeah, same type of work. Yeah, I think Dave's really on to something here. $15,000 is not a decision that I would make for the short term.

I would go long term. What's the right long-term decision? Ten years from now, which one's going to make you the most happy? Finance, you're a very structured guy. You're a methodical process-driven guy. If there's chaos at that other place place it's going to drive you nuts you need to really know that before you make this call and um it's not worth the 15 bump if it's going to drive you nuts and then that takes the problem off the table obviously i'm not sure that's the case i'm just questioning as how this whole thing went down if that was the way you ended up interacting with

your leadership team for the next five years you're you're gonna pull your hair out that's right yeah if it's um if it's if if that's what it is now we've got a little of both around here honestly we've got some areas of this company that are still very raw very frontier very pioneering very rough and tumble and very disorganized and chaotic and then we've got other areas of this place that are running like a freaking sewing machine. The processes are so dialed in and so professional, and we've got 1,200 team members. So we've got a little of both going on around here, so we could get accused of either. It's not saying that company is right or wrong. I'm just trying to make observations about how this guy fits and where he goes in the thing here.

So, yeah, but the way to handle it, if you chose to do B, is simply just be up front and tell the truth. Yeah. All the way through. Do it the way you'd want somebody to handle you. Treat other people like you want to be treated. Yeah. Solves all your business ethics problems. Be classy. Here's why, Dave.

This is relevant to this last call. I shared an article today on the show uh the ken coleman show 30 of people who changed jobs in the last two years are regretting it because 30 they took the paycheck and then they said it wasn't as good as we thought it was going to be or i missed my old company i missed them so you got to be careful making these kind of moves just for a pay bump it's got to be a long-term play. Yeah. That'll be where you need to be. Good, good point.

Well, that puts us out of the Ramsey Show in the books. Thanks to Austin, Ben, Zach, Andrew, James, Kelly, everybody. Will, everybody in the booth. Again, good show. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace. The Ramsey Network app on your smartphone.

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