The Ramsey Show - App - Should I Leave a Stable Job for Contract Work? (Hour 1)

Episode Date: March 25, 2021

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🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Ken Coleman. Ramsey Personality, host of the Ken Coleman Show, is my co-host today, which means we can talk about your money and your careers. Ken helps in 75 cities, Sirius XM, and a very popular podcast every day, answering your questions about getting a job, oh, that, or a better career.

Yeah, you know, I'm talking about helping you get the income you need and making the impact you want. We're combining impact and income. So you and I are like the one-two punch. We are. I'm the one that says be cheap, and you're the one that says increase your income. Yes, but be cheap while increasing the income, and we get out of the baby steps faster. Like, boom, boom.

That's it. All right. And, oh, and by the way, enjoy your work. Turns out, Dave, that we at Ramsey Solutions believe that you were created to work, to actually contribute. It's about getting yourself away. Now, wait a minute. You just said people are supposed to work. Be careful.

That's probably bad. It's an unpopular message these days. I was speaking in Orlando yesterday, and I was telling them the story of us sending our people home to work from home, and I reminded them that part of that phrase says work while you're at home. The first word. Yeah, work while you're at home. Got a good laugh. I'll bet.

It was kind of nice. I had 3,000 folks in a live audience yesterday in orlando how did that feel like heaven for a speaker i have not just being backstage and putting a mic on i saw your instagram i saw that i've never seen you actually take a picture or post a picture of just empty uh audio visual boxes which is what you did. And I knew. I smiled. I was like, yeah, you're just excited to be backstage. The team that went down with me, I was speaking for RE-MAX, International Convention, and

the team that went down with me were like, oh, God, it feels so good to work. It feels so good to get out here and do what we do, which is communicate with human freaking beings. It's just nice. Yeah. The energy had to be palpable. Oh, man, because you got to know those people were dying to be in that audience, too. No pun intended. Yeah.

Easy, Dave. Someone's going to misquote you because we know how unsafe we've been because of your lack of leadership. That's right. My lack of knowledge of COVID right my lack of uh my lack of knowledge of covid oh lord jesus help us all right open phones at 888-825-5225 that's 888-825-5225 jeff is in lexington kentucky to start off the day on this hour hey jeff how are you hey doing good ken dave ken real, I called your show about a month ago with a question about my resume, and I did what you told me to do because I had an interview

the next day. I got the job, and I start one week from today. Come on! Here we go, Jeff. Way to go. The Coleman magic resume trick. So what was his magic resume trick? What did he tell you to do? Just to tighten it up because it was a little bit my job description was a little bit too much what I had in there and it had gone over to a second page and he said

just to tighten it up and condense it down and you can get it to a page. That was your magic? Well, Dave, you know. That's like me telling people to live on less than they make. Yeah, I was going to say, what's so magical about rice and beans? None of those beans you would recommend are magical.

No, but you know what? Here's the thing about Jeff. So I remember the call now, Jeff, and I'm going to tell you something. What people do is they feel like they've got to put their entire work biography in there. And the reality is that people that are hiring, they're looking for one thing. Do we think Jeff can help us win? And he tightened it. He gave them the relevant work experience.

We know that hiring managers spend 7.4 seconds, Dave, scanning a resume. So just do that in your head at home. That's more than I do. That's how much. You're 4.7. No, you said 4.7. I'm under that. I'm half the national average.

Anyway, all right, Jeff, how can we help you today? Well, I have a question. My investment advisor and I are having a little disagreement as to whether I should use my beneficiary IRA to pay off debt. And what it is, my wife and I are on baby step two, and I'm wanting to do this over the course of like the next 24 months so that we can get 100% debt free. We've got basically a buffet of debt. We've got credit cards, two car loans, some student loan debt, and a home equity line of credit. I'm 53.

I don't have any retirement savings of my own. My wife is 52, and she's got about $10,000 out of 401K through her employer. And where my investment advisor is disagreeing on this is she's concerned if I do this, it's going to kick me up from a 12% tax bracket up to a 24% for the next two years. And, of course, the loss of principal in that time with being able to earn. I'm not wanting to cash the whole thing out, which would be an even bigger tax hit of like 37%. And I'm just trying to figure out what the best way to do this is and i would just how much debt do you have on the situation how much debt do you have all together

it's 136 000 is that your house too that's the that's the home everyone i credit yes sir the house was paid for i okay so you'd be 100 debt debt-free, house and everything, with $130,000? $136,000, yes. Okay, and how much is in this inherited IRA? Right now, it's $441,000. Okay, and what's your household income? Projected, I've been out of work for the last year, but projected for the rest of this year, $89,000. Okay. This is mathematically incorrect in the short term, but it has all kinds of data to back up the advice.

I would pay it all off tomorrow and pay the taxes. You need to keep in mind a 37% tax bracket, it does not mean 100% of the funds are taxed at 37%. It means the last dollars are taxed. We have a marginal tax bracket, a graduated tax bracket. So the first so many dollars are taxed at zero, the next so many dollars are taxed at 12. The next so many dollars are taxed at 20. The next so many dollars are taxed. And that's what the tax brackets do. It doesn't, when you bump a tax bracket, make your whole income taxed at that bracket. It's only those last few dollars that are taxed at that bracket. All of that's going to be offset by the fact that you got rid

of all this interest that you're paying. You're 100% free cash flow. Now, the only way this advice works is if you follow the rest of our program, which means, dude, you roll up your sleeves and become an investment maniac. You're baby step seven. And you start investing a house payment. You fill up all your retirements. You max out everything. Everything you can get your hands on, and you start throwing mutual funds like a crazy man, and you use a big chunk of your income.

I want you to invest everything you can put, max out all your 401ks, all your Roth IRAs, and then invest a house payment above that. And any loss you have due to this, having cashed this out early, will be recouped in 24 to 36 months. If you don't do the last part, her idea is right. having cashed this out early, will be recouped in 24 to 36 months. Okay. If you don't do the last part, her idea is right. Okay. Should I just cash out enough to pay off all the debt?

No. Yeah, oh, that's all. Just enough to pay off all the debt and the taxes, whatever tax bill is created by it. Because you don't have the money to pay the taxes, right? No. So it's $150,000. Okay. And you've got $250,000 left, and you have this huge income, and you have zero payments,

and you're going to invest all of them, and you're going to be a millionaire in 36 months. Run the math out. I'm right. Okay. But the problem with people in the investment world is all of us that grew up in that world have seen everybody not do the second part after they did the first part. And then you retire with a lot less money because you paid off all your debt. And then you spent more. And you weren't on a budget.

And you didn't follow through. And you didn't max out all your retirement like we teach you to do in Baby Step 7. Max out everything. And if you don't raise your right hand and promise to do that, don't follow part of my advice. It'll hurt you. Follow all of it, and it'll make you rich. Because I'm what's known as right.

This is the Ramsey Show. People all over the country are discovering a faith-based and budget-friendly way of meeting health care costs through Christian Health Care Ministries. Christian Health Care Ministries, or CHM, is a nonprofit organization that helps members carry one another's burdens with health care expenses, and they have successfully shared each other's medical bills for nearly 40 years. See if CHM is right for you by visiting chministries.org. CHM is a proud sponsor of Dave Ramsey Show.

Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today as we talk about careers, jobs, and your life and your money. That's what the Ramsey Show is all about. It's all about you. You're the subject. Turns out you're pretty dadgum entertaining, I'll just say. Dustin's in Kansas City. Hi, Dustin. How can we help?

Hey, Dave. Sorry, I'm a little nervous. I've been watching you for the last year and a half. No troubles, man. We never lost a patient. What's up? I got about, this is my third house I've bought. I flipped the first one.

The second one I was planning on flipping, but it had some septic issues. I didn't get as big of a return on it. I'm on my third one. I have a year-and-a-half-old daughter. It's getting hard on me, my wife, and my daughter to keep flipping these houses and living in them. This is the last house I got. I got about, so far, $30,000 into it. I got about $50,000 equity.

I'm just trying to get an idea of what I should do. I got about $25,000 in my bank account and just trying to get an idea of what's next. What do you do for a living? I work for a roofing company. Okay, good for you. Okay, what's your household income? About $46,000 right now. Okay, so I heard your plan is, if I understood you correctly, to stop flipping because you're tired of moving, or at least your wife is.

Yeah. With a baby and all that, it makes it hard. And so you're going to settle in. Are you going to settle in on this property, or are you going to flip this one out and buy the one that you settle into? I think that's the goal is after this one to be done for a little while at least. Okay. Because you didn't pick this one out to live in you picked it out to flip correct so you're going to pick the one out to

live in flip into that uh hold an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses and everything else goes into your down payment to minimize the amount of debt you have in the one you're going to stay in 15 year fixed where the payment's no more than a fourth of your take-home pay and you have no other debt right um i actually we have a jeep we have about 15 000 on it that i okay you need to pay that off probably go and pay that off today okay that'll get to leave you 10 000 in your account and you're debt free except the house put the house up for sale and buy your other property when this one sells and roll everything beyond three to six months of expenses into this property and don't take on a payment that's more than a fourth of your take-home pay.

And then you're set, man. You're on the track to go ahead and start your long-term investing, 15% of your income, baby step four, going into your investing and start your kid's college fund for that baby. And then any other money you can scrape together, do, you know, let's get this house paid off. Long term, what I would be doing if I'm in your shoes, because you've obviously had some success at this, is I'm going to get your home paid off. And once it's paid off, I'm going to build up a house fund to do flips with in cash from this point forward. But that's probably seven to ten years from today is what my guess would be.

But I did that for a long time. It's a fun business. Only I was stupid. I did it with debt. And that's one of the reasons I went broke. So I wouldn't want you to continue doing that. But I think you've had a good run here. Let's use it to settle down the family, get everything paid off,

and then you can go back to doing the business cash later. What do you think, Ken? I absolutely agree because as a roofer, maybe he has designs to be his own boss one day. Certainly as a roofer, he's got all these connections. I think take a deep breath, like you said, and before you know it, time flies. The child's older, maybe number two's along, and you're not having to live in them to be able to flip it, which is what you're recommending. I think it's a great decision.

It gives you a lot of options. So I think this is one of those cases where your wife is right, and it's wise to listen to her. Yes. Happy wife, happy life, it's been said, and I can attest to that. I think Jeff Allen, our friend, the comedian, came up with that one. That's right. He called her Buttercup, I believe. Oh, I'm not even going to talk about this.

Okay. All right. Carl's in Destin, Florida. Hey,, I'm not even going to talk about this. Okay. All right. Carl's in Destin, Florida. Hey, Carl. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. What's up? Gentlemen, thanks for taking my call. Sure.

I have a unique situation here. I'm 64. My wife is 65. We have three properties, two are rentals. We have no mortgages, no car payments, no anything. Good for you. We follow the Rams. Way to go.

Proud of you. Sort of many years ago, paying off the mortgage, whatever I got in the rental, I put directly on the mortgage, directly on the mortgage. We also have 401ks. My question is, at this age, should I continue to buy properties and invest or just leave the money, sit in the bank?

Or what should I do? What do you want to do? I don't know. I feel like I should be productive and continue making money. Oh, crap, you're only 64. I'm 60. I'm not signing up for death right now. Yeah, what does productive mean to you?

And I'm asking this question, Carl, not from productive with your investments, because you've been very, very smart financially. I mean, at 64, the fact that you're free and can do anything, realistically, what does productive mean to you? To me, it means just being a wage earner. I'm retired now. I'm not earning any major major wages you know you know in a two three hundred thousand dollar field but um i i just really not sure i i so your net worth

is it sounds like to me your net worth is over two million approximately yeah good guess almost like i've done this before okay so the uh uh way to go, beautiful job. So now you've landed on the island of paradise. Now what do we do? So if I'm you, number one, yes, I'm going to continue to invest in real estate, and I'm going to pay cash for whatever I buy as I go. We're not going back into debt. But I think you have some fun with that. I think you've had a good run with property.

You like property. You know, if you told me you hate being a landlord, then probably that's not the plan. That's not the definition of productivity is being in real estate. But it's something that's at your fingertips that you already have some knowledge of. You feel good about. But no, we're not signing up for coasting into death at 64. We're going to sign up for continuing to plow the field. The second thing I'll challenge you on is a Ken Coleman challenge.

And that is, why don't you back up and whiteboard this thing for a minute and go, crap, if I could do anything I wanted to do with the next 15 to 20 years, what would I do? Because, you know, Colonel Sanders never fried any chicken until he was 64. That's right. Oh, and that just happens to be Carl's age, as I recall. Go figure. So, Carl, that's what I, listen, you don't need to be a wage earner anymore. What work do you want to do? Let me put it this way.

What contribution would you like to give, as Dave just said, over the next five, ten years? You want fried chicken all over the world with your face on it? I don't know. I doubt that. But, you know, what is the thing, man? What's the thing? You're truly at a place where you can do that. This is where most people want to end up.

Yeah, absolutely. Well done, sir. Yeah. So proud of you. Very, very. Well done, sir. Yeah. So proud of you. Very, very cool. Mitch is in Kansas City. Mitch is, how can we help, sir? Hey, Dave.

Thanks for taking my call. Sure. I am 28. I'm single. I have a daughter who lives with her mother. I'm currently renting. I make about 50K a year gross. I'm on baby step two.

And my question is, my credit card shows that I have about eight accounts and collections with around $2,400 owed, which is relatively easy to take care of, I guess. And I can pay that off within three to four months or so. The problem is that I have, you know, I'm 100% positive that Credit Karma isn't showing me my entire debt or collections list. How do I find that list and who should I contact about the correct or most efficient way to get them removed or entirely, you know? Well, to start with, Credit Karma is crap. Okay, let's just establish that. So it's a bait and switch thing to get you signed up for more debt. It's just establish that. So it's a bait-and-switch thing to get you signed up for more debt. It's just a mess.

So instead what I would do is let's go to all three of the major credit bureaus directly and pull a copy of your credit bureau report. You can get a lot more detail that way of exactly what is owed and who last reported to you. So these are old enough debts that they've probably been sold off to someone else is what you're thinking. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

So you need to dig through that and start contacting them. And it's a bit of a treasure hunt because they start selling this bad debt from place to place to place to place. How old are these debts? How long since you paid on them? A lot of them are five years or some of them are three. Yeah, you've got a past. Okay.

Sure. That you've grown up through. Okay up through okay so yeah get in touch with them be sure you get in writing what you're agreeing to pay them which might be the original balance that they've marked up sevenfold by now but get it in writing and do not give them electronic access to your checking account but just go to the three major credit bureau reporting companies, Experian, TransUnion, and Equifax, and you can pull out what you need there directly, and you'll get much higher quality of information because they're not trying to bait and switch you as much. We'll be right back. in the lobby of ramsey solutions on the debt free stage deshane is with us hi deshane how are you hi welcome where do you live san antonio texas very cool and all the way to nashville to do a debt free scream yes how much have you paid off?

$95,000 in 15 months. Whoa! And your range of income during that time? $135,000. What do you do for a living? I work in project management at USA. Oh, good for you. Wow. And you're obviously great at it. Congratulations. Thank you. Very well done. What kind of debt was the $95,000?

I had, majority of it was credit cards i had a car loan um i had student loans and then i had some taxes that i needed to pay for you were just kind of normal yes a little bit of everything just bumping along everything seems normal all the money comes in all the money goes out what happened what changed everything um well i was married for um almost 20 years and i went through a divorce and during my divorce i inherited all that debt how'd you get it all i just wanted to be done with my marriage i was willing worth anything to get rid of him that kind of guy yeah okay we're better now but yes yes oh no now that he lives miles away yeah all right so you take on ninety five thousand dollars worth of mess on your own to clean it up coming out of a divorce yes that had to be scary super scary we were in. I had no idea where to start. I was in such an emotional mess.

Yeah. Definitely financial mess. And a lot of the debt that we incurred in our marriage from a credit card perspective, that was all me. And so I went to church. I attended this program, and that's where I met the Scullies. That program helped me to reset really my heart and my mind. Once I was done with that, I had the courage to finally tackle my debt instead of avoiding it and just making minimum

payments and barely making ends meet. Maddie had posted that they were going to start offering FPU. And I thought, okay, I've got to do this. I need to make this commitment for myself. I need to get myself out of this mess. And my very first class, they shared their story. And it was your story. And it was my story. Yeah.

But theirs gave me hope. Yeah. So much hope in that I didn't have a relationship with my kids. I definitely did not have a relationship with my ex-husband. And I just wanted to finally have peace in my life. And they gave me the big picture view that this wasn't just a budgeting class. This wasn't just, you know just how to spend your money. It was inviting God into your finances and letting him lead the way.

So I mean, I think after class two, I had so much hope and I had so much drive. I was like, okay, I'll sell everything. I will get a roommate. I will take on a second job. I will move out of my apartment when my lease is up, move in with family. And that's exactly what I did. Oh my gosh. They really set me on fire

and Maddie and Scully, they were like my biggest cheerleaders. There'd be days where I'm like, okay, I don't know what to do or hey, I'm selling this and it's all these little things that really just helped me to just keep moving forward

even when I felt like, I don't know if this is working but I'm getting closer. Wow. So let me backtrack just a little bit. Before you went to FPU, you went to a class, a different class, not ours, that the church was holding on how to just put your life together. Yes.

It's called Peel the Onion, and they offer it at City Church. Okay. And it's just all about you getting whole. Focusing on it. You were whole enough at that point so that when you stepped into fpu you're like game on yes okay because you were you were you were uh uh beat up beaten down needed some recovery just to be able to have the the courage and the strength to fight the debt absolutely yeah that Yeah. That's very powerful. That's a great one-two punch.

And also, for our listening audience that don't know, Maddie and Scully are, of course, rock stars around here. They've held some almost 40 financial peace university classes. Maddie's story is not dissimilar to yours, except they were able to stay married, and she had run up debt, and she's told that story on our videos many times, and powerful couple, and they've led thousands of families like they have to Shane this way,

and they've made the trip with her to be here for the debt-free scream because they're so proud of her. So they're friends of ours, close friends of all of ours here at Ramsey, and they're like rock star Financial Peace University coordinators. So that's what she's referring to. And for those of you on YouTube, she's pointing off to her right, but they're sitting over there. There's a shot.

Okay, we get them over there. Okay, cool. And so, Deshane, well done. Thank you. So when was the divorce? The divorce was January of 2018. That's when our divorce was final. Okay. So three

years ago, your life was so freaking different than where it is today. How old are you? I'm 43. So I'm debt-free and 43. I like it. I like it. I like it. Yeah, she's got a slogan. She's got a slogan. That's it.

Well, but the thing is, I mean, the last three years have been really, really, really tough. Yes. And a portion of those years have been hell. And now there's nothing but just sunshine. Because you took such control of every element of your life, money being actually the last step that you did. You got your spiritual life in order, your emotional and relational life in order, and all the other things, and then stepped through this process. I'm so proud of you.

You are an absolute rock star, kiddo. Thank you. Absolutely amazing. You know, DeShane, I want to have you. I'm going to ask you a question so you can talk to our audience because you've already talked about Maddie and Scully and what they meant to you, but I want you to talk about the fact that you were very alone, relationally and financially.

And you had the FPU class, that community. I want you to speak to the importance of having community, because even though you had them early on, the fact of the matter is when you pay off $95,000 in 15 months, there's some serious, serious dark days because you're hustling. What does community do for this process? Why is it so important? It helped me have accountability.

People were asking questions, having conversations in class and in our Facebook page that I hadn't even thought about. So I think there was a time where Scully had asked a question about, what would you do if you were debt-free? And that's something that I had never, ever envisioned in my life because I have just known debt forever. And that was one of the biggest things where I realized, like, if, you know, I shared previously that there was a scripture that came to my heart, which was where there is no vision that people will perish. And I had no vision for my finances. I had no vision with what to do with my life and I just let chaos lead me. And being able to have people that were focused, that had goals,

I could finally see that as an example in my life and so that helped me out tremendously. I just went to church. Yes, sir. Yes, amen and amen. Preach it, girl. Wow. So powerful. So powerful. All right. So now you're an expert. What's the key to getting out of death? Consistency and discipline and accountability. I mean, there's a lot. There's a lot that I can focus on, but there were days where I was like, I don't know that I can continue to do this.

I used to have family members tell me, well, that's not important. You can continue to be in debt. You know, debt is what everybody does. And that just wasn't for me. And when I was accountable to my finances, knowing that this is the Lord's money, knowing that I needed to be a good steward of that money, that helped me focus so much. And everything else that came with it, the financial amends with my ex-husband, the new relationship that I had with my kids, that was way more important than the things that I was surrounding myself with in my life. You're powerful. You are a powerful woman.

That's amazing. Well done. Very well done. Well, we've got a copy of Rachel Cruz's latest New York Times bestseller, Know Yourself, Know Your Money, which will be a bit poignant for you. That's very fun. It's a beautiful text for the situation that you're in today. I'm so proud of you. All of us at Ramsey are, and I know Maddie and Scully are. They're over there both crying like little girls.

Scully's a bigger crier than Maddie is. He's like me. He cries at Applebee's commercials. So, but well done. Well done. So well done. All right. Here it is.

DeShane, $95,000 paid off in 15 months, making $135,000, and she redeemed her whole life in the process. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. I'm debt-free! Yes! Yes! This is how it's done,

ladies and gentlemen. Wow! Wow! Wow! Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Our team created and Ken created a six easy to use resume templates that will help you get noticed. They're only $9.99. You get six customizable resume templates, instructions for building your resume, plus the 10 do's and don'ts of job applications.

One of our callers earlier this hour said he got a job because of Ken's resume, or he at least had a part in it anyway. If you want to learn more about those templates, text the word RESUME to 33789. RESUME to 33789. RESUME to 33789. Our question of the day comes from Blinds.com. Find out for yourself why Blinds.com is the number one online retailer of custom window coverings. You get free samples, free shipping, and with the new promos they run every month, you'll save even more. Use the promo code RAMSEY to get the best possible deal.

Today's question comes from Kevin in California. He asks, I am an electrician making $70,000 a year, and my wife and I are in baby step two. With everything going on in California, many businesses are moving to Utah, and that state has an electrician shortage. Builders are throwing money at trade workers for temporary employment until each project is done. Should I leave my current stable job to search for money and risk not having a job a year from now. The company I work for has made it known that if you leave to find money, you won't be rehired. In this situation, because you're in baby step two, Kevin, I don't like you leaving the current stable job for project employment.

I just don't like that at all. I think if you can move to Utah or any other state where you can get a full-time and not a project-based electrician job, I'd be fine with that. But in Baby Step 2, we want you to walk the baby steps out, get that three- to six-month emergency fund in place in Baby Step 3, and get going in Baby Step 4, and get going, and then we step into a better job opportunity. We don't jump and potentially hurt yourself financially. So if you could go and make double the money in Utah, I would consider going, but only if you move there and make that your new job. Yeah, that is the long-term plan. And it can be in the electrician world that you could go from project to project. But there's got to be plenty of work there and a bunch more money.

And it's a permanent move. It's not I'm just going to run over to the strange land of Utah, make some money and come back. That's right. No, I mean, not that Utah is strange. I'm just saying, like, people used to do that with Dubai or stuff or they would do that. You know, people coming out of the military would go back as civilians and do military-type work on a civilian contract in Afghanistan or whatever and make a bunch of money for a short period of time and then come back. But they were unemployed. And so, but, yeah, the question is where do you want to live, and then let's build a life there.

That's the thing. That's right. And you could take a vacation, take some vacation days, go make some connections, really walk around, meet some people in that field and get a feel for what that's going to look like. But I just don't like that, Dave. A little too risky trying to do that. I'm going to jump here for the short term. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Well done. Very, very well done. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Thomas is in Houston. Hey, Thomas, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Thanks for having me. Sure. What's up? The question I have is, essentially, I feel like I need to generate more income, likely by starting a business or something, but I'm not sure if it's wise given my situation. I'm 41 years old.

I am finalizing a divorce, about a 13-year marriage. The marriage was pretty bad. I'm sorry. I'm stuck in it way longer than I should have. And, but we, you know, we have an agreement, you know, a mediation agreement that the judge has to sign. So I know what my responsibilities are going forward. And essentially, I have a $420,000 mortgage. I have $96,000 in student loans. I also have

about $8,000 in credit card debt, which is primarily attorney fees. I make about $125,000 a year. What's the house worth? It's like $400,000 because the market here is a dip in the last year or so.

I don't know if it's because of COVID or what, but yeah, the market is taking a dip here. Really? In Houston, Texas? I thought it was white hot. Well, I don't know. Are you in a bad neighborhood? No, you're in a $400,000 house. know are you in a bad neighborhood no you're in a four hundred thousand dollar house you're not in a bad neighborhood yeah i mean that's that's what i thought when i i bought this house uh almost two years ago but there's nobody there but you after the divorce

right excuse me i'm sorry you're the only one living in the four hundred thousand dollar house by yourself after the divorce, right? No. So we're going to insure the kids 50-50. So I have three kids. Well, there's technically two kids in the marriage. I have custody of an older, of the oldest child from a previous relationship. So one child is staying with me 100% or near 100%, I should say. And then the two children in the marriage were...

How old are these three kids? 13, 10, and 7. Okay. What's your question? So, I mean, it's just the whole thing is very discouraging. Sure. When I put my details in, I went on your website to use the student loan payoff calculator, and, you know, it seems like it's like upwards of 10 years.

No, no, no, no, not even close. Not even close. What do you do for a living? I'm in engineering and operations for medical devices. Okay. And how old did you say you were? 41. Okay.

Thomas, Sharon and I, when we were 28, went through losing everything, and we were bankrupt and had to start completely over, and it crushed us. Emotionally, mentally, spiritually, mentally spiritually financially everything we were just powder and i hear that pain of being at the worst moment in your entire life so far in your voice am i missing something uh i don't know i don't think you are yeah so would it be fair to say and this is not name calling because it's where i was would it be fair to say, and this is not name-calling because it's where I was, would it be fair to say you have less confidence today than the normal Thomas has? Absolutely. Sure.

I mean, that makes you like a human, by the way, okay, with the hell you've been through. And you're looking at this pile of debt, and you're looking at these three teenagers or quasi-teenagers, and you're looking at a $400,000 house, and you're looking at the pile of debt and you're looking at these three teenagers or quasi teenagers and you're looking at a four hundred thousand dollar house and you're looking at the end of a mess and the sun has not come out the next morning after the mess yet and you're still in the dark of night that's what i hear in your spirit when i'm talking to you and so that makes it really easy for me to accurately say dude you're a whole lot better than you freaking feel right now. Yes. Yeah.

So here's what we're going to do. Okay. I can see mathematically how we can get you out of this. Probably going to sell the house just for the fun of it. It's just a stupid house. You can get a place to rent for a little while with these kids. Let's get this mess cleaned up because that's a big old freaking house for you to carry by yourself with this amount of debt, with this income. And so I'm probably going to step down in monthly payment for housing and get rid of this thing.

Go get you another one. It's just a house. Kids are going to survive the house. They're going to survive the divorce. They're going to be okay. It's not going to screw up their Ramsey Plus with Financial Peace University and show you step by step exactly with coaches at your fingertips and groups that you can plug into exactly how you're going to do this because I can see if you dump that house and get on a tight budget and get these teenagers fired up about the next phase of our life and you

start selling so much stuff they think they're next and you even think about some extra income and what you can do to scratch around and do that because you're a very bright guy. You just had a butt whipping, man. And it's just hard. It just hurts. And I get it. I've been there. I know how it feels.

And I think you can turn this completely around. So you hang on. Kelly will pick up. I'm going to put you in that as our guest. Ken, did you hear something? Yeah, I heard him say that should I make more income? The answer is yes. round so you hang on kelly will pick up i'm going to put you in that uh as our guest ken that did you hear something yeah i heard him say that should i make more income the answer is yes and i think when you got the split time with the kids you're working when you're not with the kids you're working i would be careful he mentioned should i start a business we didn't have time

to unpack that to be very cautious about starting a business right now let's go work and make some money and get gazelle intense to business is too hard to do at the bottom of your emotional situation. He's hurting a lot of stuff up at the end. Yeah, you need to really have your muscles built to start businesses. And we've got to get those rebuilt right now. They're somewhat atrophied from this long fight he's been through. This is The Ramsey advice in their life? Let them know about the Ramsey Call of the Day podcast.

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