The Ramsey Show - App - Should I Leave a Toxic Work Environment? (Hour 2)

Episode Date: February 9, 2021

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I am Dave Ramsey, your host. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author of the book, The Proximity Principle, is my co-host today, which means we can talk to you about not only money but careers because that's what the Ken Coleman Show does every day for a couple hours a day.

So we'll talk to you about your future and your income side of the equation. I can talk to you about both sides of the equation, the income and the algo side. We'll just generally jump all up in your business because it's what we do here. The phone number is 888-825-5225. Kevin starts off this hour in Greenville, South Carolina. Hi, Kevin. How are you? Hey, Dave.

It's an absolute pleasure to talk to you. I've been listening to you since I was 19 years old. Well, thank you. I'm 33 now, and I just wanted to say thank you so much for everything you do. Thank you, sir. How can we help? Well, I'll be brief. It's two quick questions if I can. The first one is I'm in babies four, five, and six. I make $120,000 a year. I'm married and I'm 33. I'm getting near $100,000

in my Roth IRAs and 401ks. And I started looking into the self-directed IRAs to invest in real estate because I had heard from previous episodes that you recommend doing that. My question is that I'm trying to find a good company, and I noticed that there's no Fidelity's or Vanguard's in this space. Is there any company that you would recommend that do this type of IRA? No, I don't have one that we recommend, and I generally don't recommend it unless someone is really, really hot on real estate and knows their stuff in real estate. It's not a beginner's. If you're a beginning real estate investor, I wouldn't put my 401k money into that. Now, I do know people that have done very, very well with it, and of course, the rules are that all the money made on the real estate, whether it's from a flip or from the rental

income, has to stay in the IRA. The IRA has to fund everything, and all the money stays in there. So it's not like you own a rental real estate, and you get a rental check, and you get to put it in your bank account. You don't. It has to stay inside of there. So it's not like you own a rental real estate and you get a rental check and you get to put it in your bank account. You don't. It has to stay inside of there. And so you're managing this property for your retirement years, not for today's income. And that's what you really got to get your head around. And that's what's very constricting in a lot of ways. But what it does do is it does free up a bunch of capital to pay cash for some real estate and those kinds of things. Typically, you can find a local bank that has a self-directed program.

And you can look into that. And there's probably a few places online. And I would just shop them out. But I don't have a particular company that we say do that with and i don't know if any of the smart investor pros would have that or not uh because it's not what we send people to them for so i don't know i mean they're helping you just do a traditional 401k or roth iras or those kinds of things your 529s for your kids college all that kind of stuff and so i don't know you know you could ask a smart investor pro in your area they may actually have the service through their broker dealer that they can do that with.

But most of the time, we do not recommend. My personal 401k is not a self-directed plan. My personal IRA is not. It's just in mutual funds, just like we teach everybody else to do. Now, I buy a lot of real estate, but it's outside of that. And the constricted portion of that is there. Ken, I knew a guy when I was doing real estate deals back in my 20s, a thousand years ago, that retired from Kodak.

That's how long ago it was. Oh, wow, yeah. Kodak was a company. A big one. Yeah, it was a huge company back in those days. I mean, this was 40 years ago, 35 years ago. And he had, like, in those days, a lot of money, half a million dollars. And he took that and started buying real estate and flipping with it and ended up with about

$2 or $3 million worth of real estate in his, it was his old 401k, and he rolled it over into a self-directed when he retired and did real estate deals. But again, you have to have an income to eat with other than that because you can't touch that money. It's trapped in there until you're 59 1⁄2. Now, in his case, he was over 59 1⁄2, so he could pull money out without penalty, but it's like pulling money out of your retirement account. And if I heard you right, he knew what he was doing.

He was a seasoned real estate investor. Not a good idea for a rookie to play this game. Yeah, I wouldn't use my retirement plan for my first five deals. I wouldn't. I think it's very dangerous. Real estate is starting your own business is the American dream. Buying and selling real estate seems to be the American dream. Everybody wants to do it, and I've done both in my life a lot.

And so I don't recommend against those things. What I do want everyone considering either one of those things. There's a lot of people in their 20s right now. It's just there's a surge of entrepreneurism right now for people in their 20s, which is wonderful for America. It's wonderful for them. But the thing is, starting and running your own business is probably 10 times harder than you think it's going to be. I mean, it's just going to take a while. And you don't know what you're getting into.

And you're going to stumble around. And you're going to bump into stuff in the dark and bloody your nose. And the same thing is true with real estate. You know, everybody says, well, you just buy a house, and you just flip a house, and it's like they've been watching too dead gum much cable TV. And some guy, you know, you see an edited version of reality in a reality show, and some guy walks in and buys a house, and they change the kitchen out or some kind of crap. It's on TV, and it absolutely does not work that way out here in the real world. Well, they'll go in and say, oh, this wall has to come out. It's got all kinds of rot in it or whatever, and they go, well, it's going to add to the budget.

And then we move to the next segment. It doesn't happen in the real world. It's more expensive than you think flipping houses. But here's what's going on. There's a lot of people out there preying on these young kids, 20s and 30s, going, this is the get rich quick, debt's good, use debt to your advantage,

and they're not telling the other side of the story. And this isn't the horror story. It's not like we're talking about the 1% chance. No, you're guaranteed to run into bigger problems than you think flipping houses.

It's always more expensive. It always takes more time. Contractors don't show up exactly when you want them to. So in 1984, I bought a package of 12 houses. A package? Of 12 houses. Okay. I was 24 years old.

Wow. For $240,000. One of them I paid $13,000 for in that package, basically. It was a pack from one guy who was going broke. These were run-down houses, beat-up houses in a bad neighborhood that was, in air quotes, historic and coming back. Now, 40 years later, it is now a big deal historic area right right but 40 freaking years later okay or 35 years later one of the houses had they built the houses in a building boom some of them with green lumber and the reason the floors were warped was not because

they were old it's because there's that lumber drive that pretzeled. Yes. And it got hard as concrete. So jacking those floors up and getting them even took weeks and months. Oh. I had that house jacked up with floor jacks and posts under it, letting it settle. This is how bad the neighborhood would do us. They stole the jacks out from under the house one night. They don't tell you this stuff on cable TV. It's not there.

That doesn't come up on cable TV. No, ever. Really happened. How the house didn't fall on the moron's head is beyond me. It's unbelievable. This is the Ramsey Show. Your number one wealth building tool is your income. For business owners, this comes as no surprise, as you're used to putting in extra hours and watching your bottom line. That's why Christian Healthcare Ministries, or CHM, is a great option for those who are faith focused and budget conscious. CHM is not health insurance. Rather, it's a health cost sharing

program. It's not harder, but it is different. To learn if CHM is a fit for you or your business, visit chministries.org slash budget. Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. I am Dave Ramsey, your host. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Rob's with us in Virginia Beach. Hi, Rob. How are you? Hey, Mr. Dave. Hey, Ken. How are you guys doing?

Great, man. How can we help? So, unfortunately, I got a divorce recently, about a year and a half ago, and I'm on baby step two currently. And I co-signed for the car that she currently drives. And as per the divorce decree, she's responsible for the payments, and she's been making them, except for a couple, which have negatively impacted my credit. But I was just wondering, do I need to add our joint car loan and Baby Step 2 as part of my debt, or do I go by the divorce decree and let her continue making payments and just

kind of monitor it? Well, every time she doesn't make a payment on time, it's going to show up on your credit report. Yes, sir. She's only done that once fortunately but it hit it hit pretty hard it dropped at about 75 points so um that was about a year ago and i was just wondering um in baby step two if i need to add her car on the list or not no you don't but you need to get that car paid off and get it off your name.

So how are you going to do that? How are you going to do that? I tried to do a transfer of equity, but her credit score isn't good enough, so it defaulted back into my name, and she also tried to refinance in just her name. But unfortunately, she's the type of personality that if I start helping her make payments or put even a dollar towards it, she'll stop paying it completely. So that's just what I'm trying to avoid. So what is the balance on the car?

She owes about $23,000 still. Good Lord. No, you do. Yes, sir. So what should have happened in the divorce decree was the sale of the car yes sir it should have been a forced sale and so um what do you make a year currently i make 80 000 i'm a disabled veteran so i'm at a hundred percent right now with the i'm trying to eventually get a home next year so i'm trying to be debt-free this year because um it's still counting as long as that car loan as long as that car loan exists

you're not debt-free yes sir because there's your name on it yes sir oh i'm sorry well thank you for your service um thank you for your support i uh what does she make um she was a server last i spoke to her we're not on speaking terms it was kind of a nasty divorce unfortunately so last i know she makes around 23 i believe okay so she has a car she can't afford yes sir and i think she's too stubborn to go ahead and admit that and sell it so that well um what i would do what i would do is if she misses another payment i would uh hire an attorney and drag her back in before the judge and ask the judge motion the court for the car to be sold yes sir as soon as she misses one payment. Okay.

Because, like I said, I'm tired of renting. Well, the bottom line is that's what's going to help her is to get rid of the car, and it's also going to help you. Yes, sir. If she's making $25,000 a year, she doesn't need a $22,000 car payment. That just doesn't even work. Yeah. Sorry, go ahead. And I don't want you to pay the car off.

I want you to force her to sell it. Now, if you could convince her that it was in her best interest to sell it, because it is, or if you have anyone that you know that can speak into her life that could convince her to sell the car, it would be in her best interest. It also, by the way, would be in yours. But, I mean, we're actually – yeah. If she gets a hint at all that it's in my best interest, she's less likely to do it, basically. Well, I mean, it's obvious it's in your best interest.

You owe the money on the – you're on the car loan. She knows that. But that's not the motivation here. The motivation is if she's got to get rid of this car payment, and she can't, and so it's killing her. It's eating her alive. And so she's going to miss another payment. If you can't get word to her or get her to somehow listen to sell the car, just go ahead and have some money set aside for an attorney, and the first time she misses a payment, immediately petition, file a motion with the court to have the car sold.

Because she's not, the court decree, the divorce decree, demands that she pays the payments, and she's not paying them, and she's damaging you. And when you get before the judge, you can say, oh, by the way, Your Honor, she makes $20,000 a year, she's got a $22,000 car payment. It's not good for her, Your Honor. And he would look at her or she would look at her and say, oh, yeah, you need to sell this car, kid.

It's a bad deal. And they'll help her adjust her attitude. That's one thing judges are pretty good at. They take great pride in that. Well, I mean, a lot of them, honestly, at that level, a lot of them honestly at that level a lot of judges are not it's not like tv they really do care and they actually will look at you and go that you know that they use wisdom oh it's like the parent many people have never had exactly exactly i mean uh you know we do a lot of work with the uh the foster care system in tennessee

and so we've gotten to know a lot of the juvenile court judges and stuff, and I've got to tell you, they're the best social workers on the planet. I mean, they really care, and they've got the power to do something about it too. So it's just wisdom, and this poor girl is not being wise. It's not good for her. Stephanie is in Orlando, Florida. Hi, Stephanie, how are you? Hey, thank you for taking my call. I want to know how much I should spend on a car.

I have an 03 Ford Expedition. I love it, but it's an 03. I have about $15,000 in my emergency fund, and then we have about $25,000 in other for savings. My husband makes about $250,000 in my emergency fund. And then we have about $25,000 in other savings. My husband makes about $250,000 a year. But I just don't want to spend more than I spent on some investment houses for a car. You're going to. You make $250,000 a year.

You're driving a piece of crap. Yeah, I know. But it's A to B. It's A to B. I get it. It doesn't take much to make you happy, and you're a content person. I get that. But, you know, I'm not big on – I'm the guy that tells everybody to sell their car, right? I'm not the guy that tells people to buy cars, but you need to buy a car, darling.

Well, what is reasonable for a car? Because I'm looking. Well, you have $20,000 set aside for buying a car. Okay. And that's only 10% of your income. Yeah. And so it's not

unreasonable to spend $20,000 on a car. And you can get a great used car for $20,000. Fantastic car. You get a ton of car. $20,000. Fantastic car. Okay. You get a ton of car, wonderful car for that. Okay. Pay cash, and you should never have all of your cars and things with motors and wheels added together that you own should never equal more than half your annual income because all of those things go down in value,

but we're not even approaching that. Oh, no. I won't say that much. Stephanie, but we're not even approaching that. Oh, no. I won't sell that much. Stephanie, listen, let me set you free. You got $20,000. I think that's your budget. That's the top. And knowing you, you're going to go shop, and you'll probably find something for $17,000 that you love.

Yeah, exactly. Or you find something for $20,000, and you offer them $17,000 or $15,000, and they take it. Oh, I forgot the Dave deal. See, if your budget's $20, always offer $15, not a dime more. Yeah. Because you can always come up. What's the worst they can say, Dave? Somebody needs to sell a car, I'm just saying, and she needs to buy one.

It's a match made in heaven, man. Listen, you taught this years ago, and it's true. I did this. I remember we were living in Atlanta. Stacey and I hadn't been married that long, and it was time for me to upgrade. I was driving like literally garbage on wheels, and it was time, and I jumped up a little bit. I think it was a $5,000 car at that point. We were still paid off debt.

No, we had paid the debt off, sorry, but the first car, it's like, okay, now I can afford something. And the car was $7,500 for some infinity something or other and i took five thousand dollars in cash in a hundred yes sir hundred dollar bills and i put it on the back of the uh on the on the trunk i did my best to fan it out but i was shaking yeah because i'd never done it before i was trying to summon dave and there it is baby there's a deal right there you're gonna sell a car he said i can't do it for five i said well. I said, well, that's what I'm offering. He goes, would you do it for $55,000? And I said, yes.

Before you, quick. You said too quick. You said too quick. I don't know, man. Shake, shake, shake. I don't know, man. So that really does work. Oh, it does work.

Especially if you're buying private party. Yeah, absolutely. Unbelievable. Absolutely does. Cash still talks, baby. This is The Ramsey Show. our question of the day comes from blinds.com they have a 100 satisfaction guarantee that means even if you mismeasure or you pick the wrong color they will remake your window blinds for free you get free samples free shipping and with the new promos they run all the time, you save even more.

Always use the promo code RAMSY, which means you heard it on the Ramsey Show. Ramsey. Blinds.com. Pretty impressive. It'll save you some money. All right, Ken, what do we got? Today's question comes from Jack in Pennsylvania. He says, I'm struggling to decide whether to leave my job.

I'm a 31-year-old attorney making $154,000 a year. I've been the in-house counsel for a family-owned business for two years. A very profitable company, but our boss and founder has severe personal problems. He's engaged in illegal drug use for decades and suffers from severe mental illness. Everyone in the company is afraid of him and morale is low. We stay because our high salaries and fear that every boss is like this. Am I a crybaby for wanting to quit? No, you're not a crybaby.

Wait a minute. I don't have any illegal drug use, but I do have severe mental illness. Well, it depends on what article you read. It has been reported that you do. I will tell you that. That is true. But let me just blow this myth up. Every boss is not like this.

You know, I know, Dave, that a lot of people who are in toxic work situations, what happens is it becomes so toxic and there's a fear of change. It's almost like domestic violence. It is. They'll put up with it because I've found that humans are more willing to be miserable than uncomfortable. The devil we know. And when he leaves, this is a successful lawyer. 31 years of age making 154 a year. Because I've found that humans are more willing to be miserable than uncomfortable. The devil we know. And when he leaves, this is a successful lawyer. 31 years of age making $154 a year.

You can make that somewhere else. I would suggest to you there's several places, Jack, where you can make way more than that as a lawyer. So, number one, every boss is not like this. Number two, you're not a crybaby. You should quit. But I don't believe in jumping, even at the money you make. So, here's what I'd say. Bite the stick. Start looking.

Find something else. Sign a deal and walk in there and say, it's been great. I'm out. Yep. Yep. And don't try to rebuke a mentally ill, toxic person. No sense in blowing up a bridge. No.

Just go. It was good. Thanks. Yeah. I'm moving on. Bigger and better things. Next. Appreciate the opportunity. Next. Yeah. yeah my goodness drug use for decades and you're an attorney yeah yeah and you're and you're

you're an accessory what yeah dave i just want to say something really quick on this i just because i hear this every day on the ken coleman show i'm trying to help people pursue meaningful work so if you're new to me here on the range you, that's what we're doing because we believe that everybody longs to make a difference in the world and through your work and your relationships is how you do it. We focus on the work side. But I see this every day. And here's another case. Jack represents all of us. And there's so many of you out there that are watching, listening today. You know you're supposed to leave for a myriad of reasons. It's not where you're supposed to be. And one of the big reasons that people don't leave, Dave, is because they're so scared of the unknown.

And so they're like, I'm miserable, but I know what misery looks like. I don't know what change looks like. And so here's how you step into that. The fear is of the unknown. So what's the antithesis to that? The known. Go get some answers. Go dig.

Go do some research. It doesn't Go get some answers. Go dig. Go do some research. It doesn't require a resignation letter. Go look. Go look and begin to see what's out there. When you begin to see the answers, and then you see, oh, there's a path, and there's another stone, and another stone, and another stone. And then all of a sudden, it's not so scary. But I'm telling you, fear of the unknown is keeping people from leaving miserable situations, number one, and finding meaning in their work to show up every day like I do here and get to do something I love that produces results that feed my soul.

Yeah, we were out on the farm the other day doing some shooting, a bunch of us, and doing some tactical pistol stuff. Anyway, one of the cars got its truck stuck in the mud. And, you know, there's two or three. Number one, somebody else can pull you out. Yes, that's right. That's what ended up happening here, actually. But I've gotten my truck stuck in the mud many times.

And, you know, one thing you have to do is you have to kind of get – you gun it and get it moving and kind of get it rocking back and forth. And then you gun it and you jump out of it. You don't kind of like crawl slowly out. You got to get a little rock going. That's it. And then you got to punch it. So, Jack, what I'm going to tell you is you need to get a little rock going and you need to punch it. Yeah. Meaning that your hesitation in this highly toxic situation is going to lead you to want to stick your toe in the water.

I don't want you to stick your toe in the water. I want you to go on 10 interviews in the next 30 days. That's exactly what it needs to do. I want you to do this. Yeah! Get it! I'm out. Go!

Yes. You've got to get out of there now. Yes. And you need to go look for lots of jobs and interviews, and all of a sudden you're going to get confidence that it's okay yes and but you can't go on one no no and here's the other thing once you do this jack you're going to find that this is the nudge you've been needing you finally got to your breaking point please don't be like jack jack's a good guy but don't wait until you're miserable and you don't even have

to work for a bad company you just gotta not like not like that company. That's exactly right. That's all it is. Like, we've got one of our senior developers here, the top web guy or coding, you know, technology guy. Senior developer. I mean, this is big time. Oh, yeah. And he worked at Microsoft for a while. As a matter of fact, before he came to us, he left Seattle and came here, came to work for us. And he was one of the top guys.

I mean, some of the stuff he wrote inside Microsoft was absolutely amazing. And so why did he come to work for Ramsey? Well, number one, we won Best Place to Work last year in the nation, okay? And Microsoft didn't, okay? They're not bad people. I'm not running them down. But he looked up and said, I want to write code for, and I want to train young coders how to write code for something that matters. Yes.

I don't want to just write it just out into oblivion. Yes. Just ones and zeros out into the universe. Mm-hmm. You know, and not have any idea that it changed someone's life. But when you're writing code, you know, here. It's life change on the other end. You're setting Ken Coleman up to completely change the entire culture in America away from toxic work.

And you're setting Rachel Cruz and Chris Hogan and Dave Ramsey up to change the entire culture inside of America. When you're writing code to create a situation where the credit card becomes the cigarette of the financial world, where so many people have paid off their student loans and gotten free that their life was transformed because people like you are writing that code. He wanted to be involved in something like that. And by the way, we are hiring more right now. Yeah, we need them. We got lots of technology needs right now.

Lots of senior coder, you are out there listening, man, I need you. Product designers, we need them we got lots of technology needs right now lots of senior coder you're out there listening man i need you you know product designers we need you you know front end back end platform we need you i mean we need you you go to dave ramsey.com and click on the we're hiring thing i mean i'll just turn this into an employment ad yeah by the way tell them that ken recommended you and i might get a little bit of a bonus on that does that work that way dave no it doesn't they actually have to know me no no you don't get a little bit of a bonus on that. Does that work that way, Dave? No, it doesn't. Do they actually have to know me? No. No, you don't get anything, Ken.

I thought I was going to get that. You're not in that. That's not part of your comp plan, Ken. Folks, we're looking for those people. This is a toxic work environment, Ken. You don't get any money with it. But you were saying, I'm sorry,

I was having fun because we recommend people here i mean but the point is yeah that you know we've got we've got we have we have a we have a we have a legal team here we've got a you know chief counsel we've got several attorneys on our staff lawyers because we've got all these uh governance and all these contracts and all these other things that we get into hardly ever get into litigation but occasionally we have to deal with that too but uh most of it means trademarking and all these other stuff and so you know that the guy that's our senior legal

counsel same situation he came out of uh you know a situation that wasn't toxic it wasn't that bad but it was just didn't matter what he was doing wasn't making a dent in the universe you know apple i love that was one of their vision things i want to make a dent in the universe. You know, Apple, I love that. It was one of their vision things. They want to make a dent in the universe. We want to make a dent in the transformation of people's lives at Ramsey. And we are doing that. Absolutely. We're in the process of doing that.

I mean, we're changing massive numbers of people's lives here. Absolutely. And so when you're our legal counsel, you know, you're not having to work for a guy like this guy. And no, you're not a crybaby for wanting to have meaning to your work. That's just called being wise. By the way, that's written on your heart. I'm just going to tell you, your creator writes it on your heart. Nobody has to teach a person to want to make a difference. You know, just like you don't have to teach a toddler to take a toy from another toddler or to lie or to say no. It's all on it. We all want to matter.

We want to make a difference. And some of you listening right now are doing the right thing in the wrong place. Some of you don't know what the right thing is. Some of you know what it is, but you don't know how to get there. Some of you know what it is, know how to get there, and you're scared to take the leap. We'll take those calls. Dave and I would love to help you on that. We believe in you because we believe that you were created to fill a unique role,

that you were needed, and you must do it. Yep. KenColeman.com to get information on what Ken's talking about. DaveRamsey.com if one of those positions sounds like something you need to do. Come on. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Tax season is upon us, I know. Try to contain your excitement.

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No tricks. Simply help you do your taxes. That simple. Text the word TAX to 33-789. Hardly cost anything. Text the word TAX to 33-789. Regina is in Las Vegas, Nevada. Hi, Regina.

Regina, how are you? Great, Dave. It's a pleasure to talk to you. And, Ken, it's wonderful to talk to you. I love your show. I just saw Matthew McConaughey, so that was wonderful. Thank you. Thank you. Wonderful. Now, Dave, I have to pick your brain. I just saw Matthew McConaughey. So that was wonderful. Thank you. Thank you.

Wonderful. Now, Dave, I have to pick your brain. So this is my story. I'm a longtime listener and I'm a first-time coordinator. Very happy coordinator, by the way. Thank you. I'm working back at 87.1, working hard. My only debt is my car.

About to pay it off by September because it's on the budget and it's on a line item and it's on strict allocation. Great. The issue I am having is I have an attorney bill that's $14,000 and just growing exponentially. I have a line item in the budget for it, but I just don't have a big enough shovel. I'm working day and night. I've got four jobs, and this bill is not going to go away. I have an ex-husband who loves to play games. So my attorney has told me in an email that I either need to get a loan or borrow money from my children, or he will not represent me. I am stuck. What would you do? do uh so the ongoing hassling is over child uh visitation and child custody issues it's basic he wants more he wants more he wants more he's more i pay child support he wants more

so it just keeps going every year between i make 42 a year what do you make? What do you do? I work for a financial institution. The growth potential is limited. However, if you ever bring your product out west, I'll be at your front door. You said you have four jobs. What are the other three? I work Lyft. I work Uber.

I work side jobs, and I donate blood eight times a month. Wow. I work every single hour of the day. I don't go to bed until 12 o'clock, 1 o'clock in the morning, get up and do it all again. Who keeps your kids? I'm working hard at getting this done. I want the debt done, but this part I can't fix. Pardon me?

Who keeps your kids? Pardon me? Who keeps your kids? The custody of battle is basically ongoing, but I only have my daughter, which is just my little girl, on the weekends, Friday through Monday. So I work like crazy when I don't have her, and any other day that I can, I work. I work, I work, I work. What's his financial situation well that's multifaceted he hides his assets he has six cars two paid four homes and he says he's broke and he's a student he makes eleven dollars and fifty cents an hour well dave i want to fire the attorney but what do you say yeah i think you need a new attorney well that's a wonderful idea but i don't have another attorney that will take me either.

I'm broke. I mean, I really don't have the retainer. Yeah. I think that's your move. You know, here's the thing. You have a $14,000 debt to an attorney. If you have a $14,000 debt to a bank instead of an attorney that doesn't bother me at all i don't care where the debt is if you want to move it and go borrow the money to pay him off that's fine in the process of doing

that i'm going to fire him though i just don't have another retainer i know but i'm going to gather up the money and find a way to do this you know even if you borrowed a little bit for a retainer i don't care i mean um or you sell something or you do whatever i mean you're just you've been doing this uh work your tail off and save money for a shorter period of time it's not been for two years uh this but the attorney thing has been going on for a long time but basically basically you're getting your butt whipped and somebody needs to turn the brass knuckles on your ex. Metaphorically speaking. Understood.

He's offered me a one-time 30% discount. Do I just go get this loan? Yeah, if he'll knock 20% off, that'd be great. If he'll knock 20% off, that'd be awesome. And then use that 20% to get the retainer together and borrow $14,000. If $14,000 is in debt when we started the conversation, you now have $14,000 in debt.

We finish the conversation somewhere else, and you have a new attorney. Your attorney's getting his butt whipped. Yeah, he's terrible. He's terrible. With the information you gave Dave and I, a good lawyer who actually cares about you and wants to get this right. Oh, I would. He would say, I'll take it on contingency because I want to take it out of junior boys' hide. Yeah, all the cars.

Yeah. You know, we can fix this. Yeah, this is the thing. And here's the thing. The other issue is you are going to have to continually, like you have a chronic illness, and you're having to every month write checks to a doctor. You have a chronic illness. Every month you're going to write checks to an attorney until you get this solved one way or another here. And I don't think a simple retainer is going to do it.

That just moves it, gets it out of his hands, and you move on. But, you know, you're working too hard to lose all the time. Kelly, tell Regina, Regina, let's have you call my show sometime this week or whatever. I want to spend a little more time with her on the shovel part, you know, because we don't have enough time right now to dive into it. But I think we could get her a bigger shovel, and that will help tremendously. Making more money will help this. Yeah, oh, yeah, definitely would.

Eric is in Detroit, Michigan. Hi, Eric. How can we help? Thank you for taking my call, Dave. I was just wondering, I'm looking at purchasing my mom's house. I'm going to be selling my house and purchasing hers, but I just want to know the proper way to do that. I have siblings. I don't want there to be any hard feelings of that I got a deal or took money from her or anything like that. I just want to purchase the house for a good price, but I don't want to

overpay for it, obviously. So I just pay the asking price, whatever, have it appraised and pay that, or I'm not sure how to do it exactly. Well, I mean, that's the only way everybody's going to be happy, it sounds like, because it sounds like you're super concerned about it. So it sounds like you're going to pay for an appraisal. Are you getting a mortgage? No, I'm not. My house does not have a mortgage on it.

I'm just going to sell my house and pay cash for hers. Okay. Yeah, then, I mean, if you want to be super bureaucratic about it, you hire an independent appraiser to appraise it for $400, and, you know, you have an appraisal done, and you go, I'm paid full appraisal. I mean, who's got a gripe with that? Okay. I mean, is that normally how, I mean mean because we're not going to be using a real

estate agent no it's not normally how it would be done normally mom would give us give her son a discount i was gonna say i mean she probably would but i don't want there to be any hurt feelings for doing from anybody else and it sounds like that that's a it sounds like that that's a potential right like you've got siblings that walk around with a little chip on their shoulder. Do I need to get any kind of insurance like deed insurance or anything like that? I'm sorry? Do I need to get any kind of insurance like deed insurance? Title insurance.

Yeah, you need to get title insurance. I do need to get that still. Yeah. Okay, and do I just go through a broker to? You can get a title company to execute the closing for you. They'll prepare the deed record the deed help you know what all of the recording costs are you'll pay a little bit of uh legal fees and you'll pay for a title policy how expensive a home is this i'm guessing 250 000 okay your title policy probably

gonna be a grand give or take is it okay like that. And then the rest of it's probably going to be another $500 in odds and ends, depending on what it takes to record a deed in your state. I don't know what kind of level of taxes Michigan has on recordation, but that's what you're talking about here. And then there is no question, if you had an appraisal, that you did the right thing. And if anybody questions it, you just go, this is the appraisal. What else did you want me to do? But it sounds like there's somebody in the pile here

that's not going to be happy no matter what you do. So you better be ready for that anyway. That kind of goes with the territory. Oh, that puts this hour of The Ramsey Show in the books. This is James Childs, producer of The Ramsey Show. Did you know The Ramsey Show is one of the most popular podcasts in the world? Subscribe or follow today wherever you listen to podcasts.